Will the Maple Leafs Get More From William Nylander? | Real Kyper & Bourne

Will the Maple Leafs Get More From William Nylander? | Real Kyper & Bourne

Here we go. The Kipos, Justin Bourne, Sammy McGee, the real Kipper and Bourne show. Jake the Snake Schultz, Derek Brandeo. It’s our leaf hour edition of our program. Wherever you’re watching, wherever you’re listening, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. And of course, you can download us at your convenience Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube. Toronto Maple Leafs on the ice for practice ahead of their matchup with the Sharks tomorrow at Scotia Bank Arena. Got something going right now. They’re rolling a little bit, but that hasn’t kept Craig Bruy from tweaking his lines. JB. Mhm. Yeah. Interesting day today. You got uh a line of Cowan Tavvarz Robertson and a line of Joshua Juan Knander. I don’t know, boys. First impressions here. I don’t know. Typically, don’t you think each line should have a like a I know when I’ll use that line. Oh, we’re in the offensive zone, defensive zone. We’re down a goal. I know what that line’s purpose is. I’m looking at those two lines going, I don’t know, man. When’s what’s their spot? What is the what what is the the premise here of the lines? Yes. Only one thing. What? Uh, send a message to Willie. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That’s it. That’s it. 100%. I don’t know. I also think get Willie going Tavvarz and Cowan are not exactly on Fuego. I wonder if this is like, hey, do you need a couple guys to go get you the puck and for check? What do we need out of for you here? Did head coach Craig Ruby answer? Yes. Uh my question is, uh Kipper and our Kipper Clipper today, Sammy, let me look at the clips that I put in here. Uh he did clip two, please. Derek clip two. Well, the Divera’s kneelander cowan line has kind of fallen off for me a bit, dried it up a little bit. So, I made a switch there. Um, just to give him a different look. What’s your sense of William right now? Four games with that point’s pretty rare for him. Um, you know, I think if I had to look at one thing, I would say he’s got to get involved more, engage more in the game, you know, work his way through it. And, um, you know, that’s what I talked to him today about. work your way through it. You know, all players go through it at some point, but I think if he just works his way through it, he’ll get out of it quicker, guys. I don’t know what that means. I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically. I don’t work your way through it. What does that mean? I don’t know. We’ll get to that. I I don’t know right now. Not all at once, though, boys. I’ll I’ll get to that. But just what do you think’s going through Willy’s mind right now when he comes to the rink today and he finds out that his linemates are Nick Wah and Dakota Joshua? I I think it’s just EDM house music and slide whistles and I wonder what’s going to be on YouTube channel later. I don’t I don’t think there’s anything going on in his head. Come on. Please tell me he’s like, “How how how am I going to make some magic here with these guys?” Is internally of course. Is Nick Wah and Dakota Joshua a massive step down from current John Devarez and Eastston Cowan? Perception-wise, yes. Yeah. I don’t think necessarily performance-wise, but perception-wise for sure. And I I think what I mean to to back to your point, Keer, I think that’s exactly what this movie is about, perception as opposed to performance. I I like what you’re getting at, though. I think you’re right. I think four games and no points. He’s not been engaged, noticeable. He’s been whatever. Just say, “All right, well, we’re not just going to give you top six minutes.” So when when that perception is that you’re you’re one of you and Nua and Dakota Joshua are are two of them, that it means that you are world class. Yeah. And you got like lunch meat for for two guys, right? Meat and potatoes guys. Yeah. So you’re asking Willie to kind of be more like them. You’re certainly not asking Dakota Joshua and Nick W to be more like Willie. Oh, come on. You don’t think those two guys look at Willie and go, “Haha, it’s our time to shine.” That could be a big mistake. Yeah, because you’ve spent the first 20 games looking like you don’t know which end is up and now you’ve got this game going on right now where you’re in a comfort zone. Nick Wah and Joshua Dakota are in a bit of a comfort zone with what they are and where they’re most successful and now Willie comes along and where’s the conversation? Hey, Willie. Yeah, we’re going to let’s just get it along the walls and muck it up and we’ll we’ll just grind them. Yeah. And Willy’s going to go what? And and by the way, which of those two guys are going to say that by neither of those guys are saying I don’t care whether you say it or not, it’s true. The most telling sentence uttered by an NHL player this year was uh Trent Frederick being asked about fighting. He goes, “I’ve only got one goal this year. You know, they’re not going to fight me.” Or something like that. So what? these guys. Think about what look are we going to get tomorrow night against San Jose from Nick Wah, Dakota, and Willie. What what what are we going to see? A general disengagement and a lack of chemistry. I don’t know. I mean, maybe maybe I’m completely off on this and they find What do you think’s going to happen? You think Willy’s going to grind it out? I’ll tell you exactly what’s going to happen. Those two guys are going to grind it out on the walls and Willie will still perfect try to do Willie things. That’s perfect. That’s the best case. I don’t know if it works all the time though. No, I don’t think it does or they do it. This is the best case is that those guys go grind it out and they get Willie Pucks and Willie goes so on occasion and I’ve compared Willie Knander to Alex Kovalev. Uhhuh. And I’ve played on the line with Alex Kovalev and there’s times when I’m like, “Okay, I’m going to go over there and help him out.” And while the play’s going on, get the hell out. He goes from one, two hands on the stick to one so he could shoe shoe me away on the ice. Can I tell you something? You should have fought him. There’s a lot of low There’s a lot of low points, you know, you have over your career. Getting shoot off by a linemate while the play’s still going on to just get away from me. Is that that really happened? is is not that flattering. So, you think there’s a possibility that Willie guys? I think I think you’re going to see Dakota Joshua and Nick Wah still continue to dump pump. They’re going to dump pucks in and they’re going to just they’re going to grind it out and it’s going to be along the walls and there’s going to be all of that and then there’s going to be Willie kind of floating around and then Willie will do Willie things which is single-handedly make a play. he can on his own create by himself. Doesn’t need anybody like Alex Kovalev didn’t need anybody. That’s what I expect to see. Well, if that happens, I think that’s the best case for Willie because like he creates some room for him and get him some pucks. That version of a line where those guys do those things and Willie does Willie things is okay. Uh I just want to add to that Nick Wah I think has sneaky hands. He’s a handsy guy. He can headman a puck. He can get his head up. He can make plays. Um, but what does it do for the other line? Cowan, Tavvarz, Robertson, which we’re listing as the second line. You got nothing going out of two of the guys, and Robertson’s coming out of the press box. What’s going on? What are they? Well, I I don’t think we got no worries about that line. Yeah. Well, did we leave training camp thinking that Robertson and East Cowan would be in your top six? I I I’m just looking at at Willy’s ice time from the last two games. 1931 against Tampa and 2048 against Montreal. That included some overtime. And then before that it was 15 30 1637 1917. So said had two games there where it was really low. Like he’s demoted. But like I think Willie knows he’s getting 19. He’s getting 19. Like I like I just don’t think this is like all of a sudden Yeah. maybe plan for the year. Maybe it’ll give him a a wake up call that he needs or whatever, but ultimately I think it’s pretty stupid. Well, he’s checking his contract till 2098. Is that is it fair to say that this is just somewhat I think there’s a chance that that number can come down if tomorrow night for so they’re down they’re down a goal and they’re like let’s let’s throw out Robertson over over down a goal. You’re not making up all those minutes when you’re down a goal. I understand that he hasn’t been great and it’s been a long stretch here, but like this is so performative. This is so like always you gota you gota you gota you gota right. This is the whole accountability. So you have to put the guy that’s in the press box into the top six that you scratch because you weren’t giving him original ice. I guess I just don’t think you can do nothing Sam when you’re getting nothing. You can’t just keep going. No matter how you play, you get to play like at least it’s a effort something. It’s a performative act and he’ll still play and he’ll still play with JB on this play. I’m okay with it. I’m okay with it, too, but I don’t think I’m a healthy scratch. I just don’t think it’s going to change anything. That’s it. I I I just uh I’m I’m interested to see what that looks like. Yeah. I I am two meat and potato guys and a world class hockey player. Well, we’re in this dilly of a pickle because Bobby McMahon got a oneame suspension for savagely clubbing an opponent. You you good on that? You called it. I did call it. Did uh I’ve been doing a lot of reflection. B York Strand. Is he out of E? He called it for the wrong reasons. I No. Yeah, he has recovered. A miracle of modern science. He has recovered. Unfortunately, Dakota Mermis has not had the same luck. Brew announcing today that he’s out at least a month. So, I I’m a little I’ve spent the last 48 hours or so reflecting on my thoughts on this and I am very ashamed of myself and I would like to rescend everything I said. And I think the le I think the Leaf got hosted. I love hearing that. You know why the host? You think it takes a genuinely strong, confident person to change their mind? No, I think they they got the Leafs got absolutely hosed. And I’m going to go back to I I got DM’d uh today. This I mean the Leafs now doesn’t even look at the guy. The the the Leafs now uh are the most suspended team since Pero’s entered department of player safety. Number one. Coincidence? Maybe. But I will say over that time they have not exactly been a brrawy physical team. They have honest to God I that’s the first I’ve heard that and I’m blown away by it. Um this was uh courtesy lease Reddit. I think Jeff Fyet maybe put it out originally, but I just got sent to me via lease Reddit. This is an organization over the last 10 years where we’ve they’ve also been I begged them to be more engaged in that type of behavior and I believe I saw in 1718 they are the least penalized or the eighth least penalized team in the league. So they don’t get penalties but they get suspension. So the eighth least penalized team in the league leads the league since Perro’s tenure in suspensions. So, least penalized teams over this time, Carolina, Columbus, Anaheim, some teams that are out of the spotlight a little bit. At the top of the list, you got Edmonton, Toronto, Washington, Boston. Oh, this is for the the the suspension. Most suspended teams over the past uh seven or eight years. So, there is some uh fuel for the fire if you want to be a conspiracy theorist there. I am I am I am fueling the fire today. I think this is absolutely ridiculous. I I I can’t believe that the Toronto Maple Leafs, one of the calling cards of this team that we’ve made fun of for multiple years, being one of the softest teams in the league and oh, they don’t push back and they don’t do anything, is the most suspended team in the league. It makes absolutely no s. There’s no other sense that this can make than conspiracy theory. What else is there? You can’t handle it. Please, please remind me. Like, I don’t even know who these guys are. I can’t even like the only one I remember is Morgan Riley. Yeah, Morgan Riley. Matthews on Dalene. The should have been a suspicion. Hit hit the shoulder up to his up to his chin. Uh the Jason Spettza knee on Pian was six games. Bunting. I just got Bunting got he I mean that was a bad one. He earned the three on that one. He kicked the feet out from behind him. He earned three on that one. Yeah. But I mean like I I look back on I mean Angal got a game for accidentally slashing somebody on the top of the head. I I just I’m kind of at my wit’s end. I don’t understand what other explanation there is than favoritism against the lease. I don’t understand. What does that cost Bobby McMahon? That’s a good amount of money for a guy making 1.3 whatever, right? No. Like, do you have it would just be a day’s pay? A day’s pay. So, like three grand or something. Like, you both are look like do you not think this is something? I think how is this not something? No, I I I’ll tell you what. It definitely is. And I said this the other day, it’s just what would have taken five minutes between Columbus and St. Louis a decision gets an hour of going through it like a fine tooth comb. I I agree with Kip. I don’t think it’s a sincere effort or a dislike. I just think that nothing goes under the radar here. Every like play that’s a maybe is like a like is this going to be a suspension? It leads our show. So that but then that is a massive disadvantage to a Toronto Map Police team. It is. It’s like a disadvantage. Well, because because they have the most fans and the most watched teams, they have to be the most suspended. Well, that doesn’t make any sense. The the it’s because of the ability to send your message out through a Maple Leaf is much different than sending it out with a a Columbus Blue Jacket. So, I got to tell you that that happens Seattle versus Columbus. That’s not even not even Maybe maybe it’s a $5,000 fine. Doubt it. Okay. But they they also think because it’s in Toronto and all the eyeballs that they get, maybe to your point a little bit without being biased, without hating the Leafs, Sammy, they just go, “We just can’t have everybody looking at that and going, it’s okay to uh club a guy over the head.” And I totally think that’s just it. If it was if it was quieter, if it was down south and, you know, half a dozen people are watching a a late game from New York or Toronto or East Coast. It’s easier to get away with a a$1,000 fine or five. Can you explain this side of it to me though? Gonzalez, right? Gage Gonzalez, is that right? Yeah. Am I saying that correctly? Sounds very bad coming out of my mouth, so I feel like it’s wrong. He had been fined, I think this season or last season for a very similar playing play for kneeing. Yeah. Against Is against Let me give you Let me give you one guess who that team was against. Oh, I don’t know, the Florida Panthers. And then yeah, the knee happens with just as many eyeballs on it, just as many people talking about it in the exact same game where Bobby McMahon viciously tapped on the side of a guy’s helmet. No hearing, no nothing. I, you know, what the hell is that? I’m all I’m kind of torn on the Gonzalez one. Like I I felt like it wasn’t very forceful. You know what I mean? Like he he But intent and injury are those not do those not matter? Well, it’s I don’t know. It’s really hard to intent when you go in like that. It’s hard to intent that I’m going to rip your knee up. Yeah, like it it worked out kind of worst case for a greasy play. I I don’t know. I’m I’m torn that one. He can’t get fine 3K. I didn’t like it, Sammy. I’m I’m with you. Uh I I don’t understand. That one to me is way more dangerous than uh a tap. I I’m just I’m kind of I saw zero intent on McMahon. I think there was a little bit injury. No, no intent to hurt. Could have been a fine. Fine would have been totally fine in this. Let’s Let’s get Craig Ruby’s thought on the suspension clip four. Derek, I I you know, I to be honest with you, I don’t really know. I mean, I think we lose a guy for probably a month at least. There’s nothing that I’ve heard. Um I don’t know. It wasn’t much of a I thought it was more of a him getting kind of bumped and his stick kind of You know, I get I know you got to be in control of your stick, but I don’t think it’s worth a suspension. Yeah, we’re all in agreement on that. Yeah, I’ve changed my mind. And I just I to finish it off, I truly cannot believe that the Toronto Maple since he took over What? Yeah, just a bunch of dirty. I don’t even I don’t even know where Florida is on that list. Middle of the pack. 30th team. Thirdiest team in the league for four straight seasons and they’re middle of the pack. Florida has eight suspensions to Toronto’s 12. Eight to 12. And none of them higher than three games. Well, there’s, you know, plenty for Toronto. Okay. Uh, did we get uh Craig’s thoughts on Nick Robertson? Not. Oh, go ahead. Oh, no. I was just going to talk a little bit about the guys who were on the ice today. Do you want to stick with the Yeah, let’s just finish up with the lineup. We started off with Willie uh on the third line and Nick Robertson coming back and what he what Bubby needs to see out of Nick. Let’s have a listen. Uh that being a little more like I talked to you the other day. I I felt his tenacity and his uh getting involved and engaging a little bit. He has to me that’s a big part of his game, you know. Um getting in on a for check, disrupting things, being physical, using his speed, um all those types of things. Um, I felt dropped off. So, I think if he just brings that, good things will happen for him. I think Cowan and and Nick have a have a chance to re-energize Tavvaris, who’s, as we’ve said earlier, looked maybe just a tad tired or some some heavy legs, but I I think I think JT could respond well to to especially Nick’s energy. Yeah. And Nick’s energy is great. He is a worker. I also think Eston Cowan is one of the guys who can make plays to get someone else a good shot. And if Nick Robertson can get a good look, he’s he’s likely to shoot it in, right? He’s one of the guys we’re confident that can do it. So, hey, it could work. You know, it could work. It could work. It could also not. Yeah, it could work. Uh All right. And we mentioned uh Mermis out now over a month to go till we see him. Myers. Uh, Morgan Riley didn’t skate today, correct? Yeah. So, who’s in for him? Well, Myers Myers filled in for Riley at practice, but Henry Thun Thr in the house. Picked up on waiverss or Ryan Reeves trade. Oh, the Ryan Reeves trade. Yeah. All right. And yeah, I mean, there wasn’t I don’t think we’re going to see him. Well, said he might play on Thursday. He did. Yeah. So, there’s a good chance. Okay. And so, that means Meyer is out. The reason he alluded to it is because he said that he’s been playing the right side with the Marlies as a left-handed shot. So like he’s kind of ready for this spot. So I mean it’s got Welcome to the NHL. Play on your offside with Simone Benois. Probably got to be pretty tough if you’re Myers looking at them calling up some guy that’s a left-handed option from the Marlies to play in front of you. Like it’s that’s got to sting a little bit. But that’s the message he deserves to have right now. And and I I think it’s like I would much rather have him be there than Myers to the point. At least you can see what he’s got. Got a little bit of pedigree. I don’t I’m not expecting a ton, but he’s going to be playing on Thursday apparently against his former team. Riley will fight. Cab Ster Benwa’s run. Yeah. Okay. Would you like to make your joke Justin? Uh that they’re running out of options. Sorry boot off Twitter for the Yeah. Yeah. You did not put that on Twitter. Unfortunately, I did. Sorry, Kim. Sorry, buddy. Betrayed the show. Sorry, buddy. Um, he’s on the ice. And then two other guys were on the ice today. Joseph Wall. Yeah, a sighting. And Chris Tann. Who do you want to talk about first? Let’s play the Go ahead. Joseph Wall is a good sign. Do we actually think between now and Saturday night versus Edmonton there’s a chance that he’d come back? Well, let’s listen to the coach and see what he think. All right. Uh he felt good today talking to him after he came off. So, um you know, like I said, it’s probably a week like from when I told you. So, that would have been I told you it was Saturday. It would have been after I think it was Saturday when he said that it was a week would have been a week. Saturday or Sunday he said it. So maybe not the game against Edmonton, but then they play again on Tuesday night, I believe, against uh I can’t remember. They play so much hockey coming up here. Uh so maybe it’s the start of next week that he gets back in. Kipper, you look skeptical. No, I was just kind of laughing at at Chief a little bit off that uh at the end of what he was saying. Yeah, like I told you. Well, like he’s so close to to saying, “See, see see when I talk about injuries, some things can come true.” Yeah. Yeah. I want you to talk about when I get it right for a change. Cleared for Saturday and then play next week. That’s I mean, I’m not Sam’s making stuff up. I’m just making stuff up. Yeah, but that’s what I would assume. No, no. I I’m That’s what I’d like to see. I think he’s gonna play Saturday. I think if he was anyone else but Joseph Wall, I’m okay with that. But there’s one week for goalies and then there’s there should be one week and a few more days for Joseph Waller Sto. His injuries are injuries, right? They they’re no different just because your last name’s different. I think his groin might be different than others. Yeah. Rubber bands. Yeah. Hey, we got Dr. Doctor Doctor coming up here. Oh, yeah. So, let’s ask him about groins. So, uh Whoa. Sexy. So, uh, they play Thursday, Saturday, and then it’s Tuesday against the Blackhawks at home. I’d be much more comfortable with Joseph Wall playing against Chicago. Yeah. By the way, the amount of hockey this team plays coming up here is absolutely baffling. Um, between now and the end of the month. No, no, no, no, no. They’re good till Christmas. It’s good till Christmas. What do you mean? Yeah, they play there there’s some space between games. Oh, they play Thursday, Saturday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday. They play bang bang bang bang. They’re they’re they’re they’re not hard games and a lot of them are at home. Stars like there’s some they got to they got to get some points here. You got to take a look at the schedule. It’s murderers. It’s Sharks. Oilers. Sharks are Yeah. Come on, guys. They got to win tomorrow night. I I just They’re playing every other day and more frequent than every other day. Edmonton’s We’ll see Edmonton. They’re coming off a a horrible uh point last night that they took off. Blackhawks are middling. Buffalo. They’re They’re middling at this point. Capitals are among the leagues elite. Cred Stars are among the league’s elite. Penguins playoff team right now. No. Yeah. You got to you got to beat the Penguins. You got to beat you got Nashville. Yeah. So listen, uh I need I need I need 10 points till Christmas. Five games. No, in seven. Oh, okay. I see seven. Yeah. But where it gets really dicey for them is in the new year when they start looking at getting out on the road, right? Utah, Vegas, Colorado. I think that’s to me is when we’re going to find out if for me this is pre new year is volume of games they just play there’s never more than two days off outside of Christmas hockey don’t see there’s there’s no three and four sure there is 27th 28th and 30th no no I’m I’m talking about before Christmas my focus 20th and 21st my focus is the the the 23rd that I think I think there’s room to make there there’s room to make hay here. I mean, great. I would love that to be true. I’d love your optimism. Yes. Yeah. I’m not I’m not as worried about it. Yeah. I mean, I am. I I mean, hopefully if Joseph Wall’s back then, then I’d be less worried about it. But I mean, if it’s just Hill to be and you’re playing against all these teams, you’re really hoping that he’s okay cuz then it’s like you’re looking at Actimov against some of the elite teams in the league here with I know the Oilers are having a tough time, but you know, Stars are somehow two points back of the Colorado Avalanche. Like they’re one of the best team in the league. You’re getting them on the second half of a backto back. So you hope to God that Wall is back by then. You know what would help some wins here is getting Chris Tanv back. M Chris Tan has skated today again and he is set to be assessed today according to be to reports and brea said that today said that do we have anything on him he did it was I have something I got a friend of mine is an ER doctor and was listening to our segment and he heard you say yesterday that Tanv could have surgery and be back this season still and he said if that’s the case it’s almost certainly a micro disquectctomy uh they are considering to help with nerve compression with pain radiating down one of the arms. He says, “Uh, having said that, most people with nerve pain will do well with time and physio, and it looks like his symptoms have improved significantly. So, microisquctomy may not be necessary. That’s likely what’s being discussed today with a specialist.” I I don’t know. That’s just from all the information we have pieced together, something like that where you can get better, you can work through this without surgery, but even with surgery, you could be back. That’s I did my sportsnet.ca CA article yesterday and that’s basically the message here. It’s not a foregone conclusion that surgery is the best option for him if he can work on it and and they’re comfortable that he can play without worrying about recurring or making it worse. It’s just nerve pain that sounds like it doesn’t hurt. He should be fine. Uh quickly before we go to break, we’re gonna have Luke Fox in the next uh segment. I’ve noticed I was doing some reading on sportset.ca just mentioned your article. You put out a team USA up. It’s on the main page. So I would imagine that means it’s up. Yeah. And Matthew N. Matthew N. I did include Matthew Ny on Team USA’s Olympic roster. And let me tell you this, not even close. Wow. No brainer. They got to have him. He’s You think he’s going to be there? Yeah. I I looked at this team and there’s no world where you don’t have him. He’s over point per game. He kills penalties by 20 minutes a night. Too big and too strong. Too big and too strong. There’s not many guys. There’s not a spot you can’t put him. First line, first line. He makes sense on every line. I was hoping he was going to get arrest. He is not going to get arrest. I was kind of been like, oh well, I mean, at least, you know, they’re only going to lose their three two best players and now it’s like, well, Matthews, kneelander, and N all going to be gone. All reman Larson potentially, who’s playing great, could be gone. He should. Yeah. Fantastic. Troy ster for Canada. He’s going to be gone. Either you want best on best or you want your Leafs rested. You cannot have both. I get it. I understand. And I do want best on best. But best on almost best if they’re Leafs. I do care about the Toronto Maple Leafs as well. And yeah, I mean there’s uh there’s some good players on this team that are going to be heading overseas to play in the soup rink. By the way, this American team, please check out the article. I wrote it from Canada’s point of view about how we deal with these guys. Um, man, they got good hockey players in the US. They don’t have the top tippy tippy top guys. I still, but they got Quinn Hughes and Winsky on the back end are pretty tippy top. Great great observation. That is the one thing that we didn’t have to face at the forations. No Quinn Hughes. No Quinn Hughes. And uh, who was the coach Sullivan? Quinn Hughes is coming. Remember that? Oh, yeah. And then he didn’t. He didn’t go. He did not arrive. That was so strange. That was one of the weirdest things that’s really happened in a while where he’s just like, “Yeah, Quinn is coming.” And then he did not arrive. He did not go. Good stuff. Okay. Okay. We’ll take a quick break and when we return, Luke Fox, NHL writer for sportset.ca, will join us next as we continue our Leaf Edition hour on The Real Kipper. and boring show. Welcome back to the program leaf hour edition. Nick Gabriel, Justin Bour, Sammy McKe. Let’s welcome in Luke Fox, NHL writer for sportset.ca, covers the Toronto Maple Leafs. Sammy’s Toronto Maple Leafs. Luke, what’s up, bud? How are you? That’s uh things are going pretty good. How are you guys? We’re good. We’re good. Um, I take it you made it to practice today and, you know, battled the weather, I guess, and the traffic a little bit. Well, I did make it to practice, but I made it to the San Jose Sharks practice instead, um, instead of the Leafs. A little more interest there. I have I have a little bit of interest because, you know, I’m keeping an eye on on team Canada. So, uh, I wrote a little bit about, um, Mlin Celibbrini and his bid to to make the Olympic team. I also wanted to catch up with Ryan Reeves and talk to talk to a different team for a day, but I I kept tabs on what was going down in Leafland as well. What’s going on with Revo? Is he chatty today? Is he uh he’s got his opinions on on the Leafs, per se? Yeah, a little bit. Um, he’s always chatty. He’s always sitting at his stall, always ready to talk. Um, you know, I talked to him about how he’ll uh remember his time in Toronto, and he said, “You know what? I made some great friends. He’s going out for dinner with Austin and and Max Doi tonight.” Um, he said he’s hoping that some other guys can make it. He knows a couple of them are under the weather, he said. But, uh, he said, “I’m going to I’m going to have some some lifelong friendships, but he’s like, I’ve been around and it’s a business and and not every stop ends the way you’d like.” Um, and I said, “Do you mean like with ice time and stuff?” And he said, “No, it was it was more about the the trade deadline.” And I don’t know if he he thought the communication could have been better when he got put on waiverss there. Um, last trade deadline when they added uh Carlo and Lton, he was the odd man out. And I don’t think he was entirely thrilled with how that went, but he said, “Hey, I love San Jose. He wants another contract. He wants his silver stick. Um, and now he’s going to need another contract to get that. He was hoping he would get that uh just with the the three-year deal he signed when he he joined the Leafs. So, yeah, that’s interesting. Sorry, my mic was off there. Uh, that is fascinating that he’s still pursuing things out there in San Jose. Um, tell us about the Sharks. What’s your takeaways from this team, which is kind of middle of the pack standings wise, which is represents a pretty good bump from last year. Yeah, for sure. Um, and it’s it’s led by Mlin Celbrini. Justin, like this this kid’s amazing. He’s a plus seven on a team with a negative 16 goal differential. Number one center playing over 20 minutes a night. Uh, the only guys ahead of him in the scoring race are Conor McDavid and Nathan McKinnon. Uh, just wild, you know. Um, and and it’s it’s a feel-good team. So, we there was a few of us in there. There were zero cameras, but everyone’s at their stall. The vibes are high. Everyone’s willing willing to talk, and it’s like you’re catching them at the beginning of a wave. Um, you know, the the Leafs were once in that spot. It’s like the future is bright. All you’re doing is getting better. It’s it’s very much similar to the situation in Chicago and and Connor Baddard’s going to be coming through Toronto here soon, too. And and I I think it’s just like there’s a lot of optimism and yeah, they’re they’re fighting for their playoff lives and it’s one of those situations where if they don’t make it, hey, we’re at least we’re taking steps and if you do, everything’s gravy. But I’m I was blown away uh by the confidence of this kid because one of the things I asked him was, you know, are you surprised when you look at where you are in the scoring race? when you look at the fact that Team Canada is meeting this week and and they’re they’re talking about you and you might be pushing someone out and he he thought for a second he’s like, “No, I’m not surprised.” He’s like, “I know what I am. I know I put in the work.” And the guy’s only 19. I’m just blown away by his confidence. Yeah. 19. It almost just feels like the San Jose Sharks are on this Cabbrini tour to get him on Team Canada uh season. He’s on team Canada. Does it feel that way? I I think he’s on I think he’s on he’s on my uh my roster for what that’s worth. But uh you know uh so their their coach David Worovski was was talking to Mike Sullivan and like how did you deal with Sid? How do you coach Sid? And it’s that kind of blueprint that they’re trying to take in San Jose. They’re already talking about him as, you know, being a leader of men. And the guy’s, you know, the youngest guy in the room. It’s It’s kind of wild, but he he composes himself with that that presence already. You were like me at 19 years old, just listening to hiphop and just being sad. I’m doing that way. I’m that way now. I’m that way now. It’s no different. It’s so true. Luke and I have a lot in common. Don’t worry about it. Um, did you want to go? I’m just picturing you and Luke hanging out at 19. Luke and I would have hung out when we We got a big day later this week. We do. We also Yeah, that’s right. Luke and I share a birthday, too. Don’t worry about it, guys. Um, talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs, some things are are moving here. Joseph Wall’s back on the ice. Chris Tanv is back on the ice. Uh, those things are exciting. We were talking before about the shuffle with the lines, though. That kind of had our attention most of all. Willie Knander down to the third line. Uh any sense if that’s an attempted punishment or just an attempt at getting people moving? It’s an attempt to wake up that second line that’s, you know, kind of gone through a lull. Uh I think it kind of started after Austin came back. John Tvaris, you know, his ice time went through the roof when all of a sudden he was the the number one center and he and and he played amazing. But that dip has kind of coincided with uh William Knander’s dip which a he’s nursing something like he’s needed the odd maintenance day, b he got sick for a bit there, so maybe that’s playing it a portion, you know, in into that second line lull. Um so I don’t mind it. You know, I I saw William uh his video talking to reporters today and he was like, “Hey, I admit it. like we we need to try something new. We need to shake it up. I think it’s going to be temporary, guys. Like it’s just it’s one of those things. Bobby McMahon’s uh suspended for one game, you know, maybe it’s as is as short as a oneame trial um you know, after the Sharks game when Bobby McMahon gets gets done serving his suspension and we see Tvaris with Nander again. But it is kind of funny that whenever they do spread it out to three lines, who’s on line three every time? It’s Knander. Uh he has gone four games without a point though and you know he’s he’s saying I want to score like that he really feels like in order for him to make an impact he has to do it on the score sheet. the coach might say, “Hey, there are other ways you could chip in.” And we’ll see Nick Robertson, of course, with Tavvaris and uh East Cowan. And you know, for Robertson, it’s one step forward, one step back, one step forward, one step back. Eventually, will we ever see this guy have two steps forward with the Leafs or is this is this just the way it is? It It feels like that. It feels like that, Nick. And I like I’m curious if this keeps going like is he the guy that’s on the outside in playoffs again? I mean that’s that’s the thing that that has really irked him and he’s you know he doesn’t he downplays it but that was you know the the impetus for him asking for a trade out of town is like yeah you’ll give me stretches where you’ll play me but when the chips are down I’m up in the press box when it’s in the playoffs. And I I feel like because of his size, he has a harder time earning Craig Breuve’s trust. Like Craig Brew doesn’t talk about Nick Robertson the way he talks about Eastston Cowan already. Like there’s other guys that seem to leapfrog over him, but I don’t like Nick Robertson on the fourth line. I think he’s a top six player. Um and so it’s this is a great opportunity for him to do the old the old scratch and score up in the up in the second line. I think he needs his ice time. That definitely seems like the best fit for him. Hey, uh the other end of things, the defense, Morgan Riley, just a rest day today. Illness. Illness. Okay. So, that’s going around, but he’s he’s expected to play unless the illness gets worse or whatever. And then and then we might see Thrun and Meyers, but it looks like Thun will probably make his his Maple Leafs debut tomorrow. And uh bit of a puck mover. He’s comfortable playing. He’s a lefty, but he’s comfortable playing on the right side. He’s been playing on the right side down with the Marlies a bunch. Uh they don’t like Simone Benois playing his offside. So, pencil him in for third pair right side. And and you know, I I was in the at the Sharks practice and uh their coach was like really happy that Thron’s getting a chance. He says, “This kid tries so hard, really coachable, feels like he’s a he’s an NHLer.” But we didn’t want him. Yeah. really happy they’re going to play him against you know not to the point where we wanted to keep him Luke he’s like make sure they play did he include that in Myyers Thrun Rafi anyone they want to play he’s not good for us but he’s good for the Leafs that’s um yeah but they need they need Reeves to protect Cabbrini right Nick yes for sure um just in terms of now that Leaf’s kind of Meyers on the odd man out here Machelli uh looks like another healthy scratch here. Are we to the point now where it’s kind of the writing’s on the wall that that uh these guys will be on the outside unless someone starts to get hurt or you just run out of bodies because it seems like like Machelli is just going to there’s no real window to get back in. No, someone’s going to have to go through a horrible slump. Uh or there’s going to be in have to be injuries or more suspensions, I guess. I don’t know. But he is he is on the outside. And you know, they gave him every chance in in the world. Like they they tried to give him I get what they haven’t done is give him PP1 chance PP1 looks, but outside of that, they gave him lots of opportunity in the top six. They tried to create a third line. uh you’ll remember of all the new guys and and nothing has really stuck and I I just I think he’s not a Bubet player guys. I just think there’s only so many spots for small shifty playmaking guys and right now that’s Max Doi and I don’t know if Breub wants another one. I I feel like it doesn’t align with how he envisions the team playing with dump a chase and hard checking and grinding and getting to the net. Machelli is more of a perimeter guy, more of a disher. Who could have foreseen that in the summer? Very interesting. Um, so is is anything changing with the power play? I saw Willie had a great quote today. They said, “What do you want to see different on the power play?” And he said, “Just shoot it in the net.” And so you’re just going to score a goal. Like literally asked for no changes. Uh, what are your thoughts on the power play? Will they change anything? H I think they should try the I I think they should try the two units. Um, Brew said that like he’s gone back to the the same five that, you know, they he had in training camp and said, you know, the underlying numbers showing showed that we’re getting our best chances with that group. I’m almost of the mind that you blow it up. I mean, you’re operating at 13% and we’re heading towards mid December, uh, second worst in the whole league and it’s it’s a head scratcher when you consider how much talent and how much money is invested on that top unit. And I’m not saying go for two units for the rest of the season. I just mean more of a dramatic shakeup maybe to get these guys attention or feel like it’s a refresh. Yeah, it is mindboggling. It is. All right. Um, anything else for Lucky Luke? Nope. I’m all good. I’m going to ask you a question about Calarn after we’re done, but Luke’s free. Luke, great stuff, man. Looking forward to your piece on the Sharks and Celebrini. Yeah. Thanks, buddy. Okay. Thanks. Take care. Fox everybody. Sportsnet.ca. Uh before you talk about cross, uh who wants to win a bunch of cash while doing the best thing this holiday season? Sports at 590, the fan is all in supporting the 50/50 fortune uh for sick kids. It’s a 50/50, so the more money we raise, the more kids we can help and the more holiday cash you can win. The current take-home prize is over $364,000. Buy your tickets at 5050 fortune.ca or text the word money to 595 and we’ll send the link right to your phone. 18 plus. Please play responsibly. Standard message and data rates may apply. Lottery license license RAF1518410. There was a stray internet rumor today. Cali Yarn Croak is being linked to the SHL’s Bryus if for the 2627 season. Like he’s signed a contract for next year somewhere back overseas. This guy’s in, he’s out. He’s kind of on the fringes of the team. I’ll pay for the Uber. What’s that? I’ll pay for the Uber. I just don’t see him on this team post trade deadline. Part of the solution. Yeah, I don’t. He kind of grew on me a little bit, but I like his effort, but he’s he’s not moving the needle in the playoffs. No, not big strong enough. No, no, no. And kind of a not going through anybody’s kind of fishing for pucks. Yeah. Like he’ll be in the right spots. He plays hard enough that they they somehow feel safe with him. Yeah. Right. And I think he is responsible. But an adult plays like an adult. Yeah. He is in a perfect world if you were really really solid in a lot of other areas of the ice. Maybe you can get away with him playing a third line role somewhere if depending on what the other two guys on the line look like, but he’s played 30 playoff games. He shot it in once. He’s just uh there’s just there’s just nothing there. There’s just nothing there in terms of when it matters most that this guy, you know what, Connor Brown, uh Heyman before Heyman turned into a 50 goal scorer with Edmonton. These are the guys that somehow should have been around playing that kind of rollish area. Now you have asked yarn crow to do it. No, it’s not quite the perfect fit, is it? Yeah. Uh we have the coach on the power play, do we not? Yeah, we do. Do we play that already? I don’t know. Do we care? It’s a broken record. Okay. I just I’m down to like hockey gods. Give them a bounce. Like we we’ve seen some good bounces in the last week and a half. Scott Lton behind the net hits out open net. Like they’re starting to get some bounces, some their only goal, their only goal against a goalie on Monday night was a wonderful bounce straight into the slot for Morgan Riley who tucked it home. Went full Bobby. They just need they just need something. They’re not that bad. I think they are. No, they’re not that bad. No, they’re not they’re not the worst in the league. They might be 15th to 20th. Let me double check to I know. I know what the they don’t get like they get zone time. They don’t get dangerous chances. They haven’t got dangerous chances all year. They have nine power play goals this year. They I know. I know. I think I think Dallas is like 35. They’ve also given up a couple shorties. So, they’re what like plus seven or something. They have Matthew Knes at the net. Big strong guy with hands. Tvaris can finish as good as anyone. They have guys. So, can we figure this out? You have the tools, you have the parts, build the machine. No, I I think it and again it’s I think it’s stemming from not being able to leave Morgan Riley there long term, not being able to leave Oel there long term. Going to five forwards. Can’t do that long term. You never put a T2D and Riley. You just It’s just a revolving door of ideas. This whole era they’ve never had the power play quarterback go uh goalie. Nice one. Idiot. They’ve never had the the quarterback defenseman of the They’ve never had it like a guy that could hit a one. They tried it with Tyson Barry. It was no good. They’ve tried it with all these different guys. They did Mner. It was the best with Mner, but they’ve never had a shot. They’ve they’ve never had a guy back there never a threat. Never had a Bard. And boy, Buchard loves to cough it up. But god, he’s brilliant on the power play. Oh, I can’t wait to talk about his latest in the national hour. That was a fabulous play he made. To Sam’s point, every time, no matter what, and we’ll talk about his his gaff last night, but every time the puck goes back to the point, threat to hammer, you hold your breath because he could shoot it in on his own or he can fake and at the top Conor or Leon somewhere on the flanks and you can also bobble it for a shortanded breakaway. It’s just it’s just too hard to defend. Yeah. Yeah. If you have the shot and someone who’s willing to pass back there, it is unbelievable. Remember how good Mike Green was for Obie in the early days. Yeah. Exactly. And always in his wheelhouse. Yeah. Like he can screw up that pass, too, you know, even by being an inch or two off. Now Obie has a big wheelhouse compared to most people, but yeah, he was able to get it to the right. Did you see that status name about Obie? No. That he’s had zero defensive zone starts this year. No way. They’re not stupid. Why would you put him there? Zero percentage of start. Like they’ve had icing, so that’s a continuous shift or whatever where he’s had to do it, but he has had zero percentage of his zone starts in the defense. Patrick Carver is like, uh, no, not doing that. All right. Our thanks to Luke Fox from sportsnet.ca. Don’t go away. We’re just warming up. We go national next. Gary Galley will join us. Former NHLer, always a great guest on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. And Dr. Jason Smith. A lot of injuries out there. Groins are my groin back. Groins next after these words. Welcome in to the national edition of our real Kipper and Bourne show. Kiprios Justin Bourne. Sammy McKe. A disgruntled looking Sammy McKe. It’s It’s only funny because you remember like right at five. Everyone reminds me right at Oh, is that you get text reminds me five. Derek 58. Four. Jersey. Jersey. The jerseys at five. Tell me earlier. I forget. For all of you that don’t know what the hell we’re talking about, Sammy forgets to change the jersey from our Leaf Edition hour to our national hour. Sammy, I’m setting a daily phone reminder. We need something. You know, game shows used to have this or sitcoms have an applause sign like that flashes. Can we get something that says jersey change? Wherever you’re watching and listening to a disgruntled Sammy, we’re glad you’re aboard. We’re live on Sportset. Sports at 615 in Vancouver. Sportset 960 in Calgary and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available at your convenience, Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube. This hour of Real Kipper and Born brought to you by Bet 365. In a few minutes, we’ll welcome in Gary Galley, who always does a great job of breaking things down. Uh, not only for us, but of course, Sportsnet and Hockey Night in Canada as well. So, lots to get into, including the Senators. He’s in Ottawa, so he has a pretty good vibe on uh what’s going what’s going on there? Because usually with uh someone like uh Brady Kachuk coming back into the lineup, you think that would just catapult them to another level here, but catapulting the pucks into their net. They’re they’re going in the wrong direction. Yeah. Um, so we’ll get into that and more with Gary Galley. But in the meantime, last night, 10 games. And did you There’s two goals with a second left in Edmonton where they squeaked out a point against Buffalo. And then in Pittsburgh with Anaheim coming back with I’ve never seen this before. Is this the first time ever? One 100th of a second one. Sorry. We’re gonna get there. We’re gonna go to 1/100th because that’s how close it’s getting. Now, the screenshot of the Ducks guy with in his own zone by the empty net with his back to the opposing zone with 10.1 seconds left and being like, they tied this game is one of the more insane things ever. Yeah. No, no. I I I’ll go one more insane on that game. Okay. Okay. I think it was Chris Crriider who took a penalty, right? Yeah. So, now Pittsburgh is up a goal. Yeah. With 17 seconds to go on the offensive zone. Yeah. Dan Muse, who’s done a nice job in Pittsburgh. Yeah. has the all-time rookie head coach brain cramp I’ve seen in a long time because he sends out Crosby’s line which is fine of course but then he sends out Latang and Carlson for the power play. Hey Dan, we got enough to win. Don’t need a power play goal. You need to burn 17 seconds off the clock. They got skated through like Did you see it? Yeah, I watched it while we were talking. Did you see Latang? Watch, watch, watch. Look at this. Where’s the D? Watch. Oh, now I’m gonna And then Carlson just slides and knocks the puck in his own net. This Ducks team has enough good things going for them that it’s impossible to believe that they’re not going to make playoffs. They are Listen, Lat cannot. Okay, Carlson, okay, maybe, but Carlson and Latang Latang is not having a great year defensively. Well, Sam was just trading for him for the Leafs a second ago. Now, I said, we were talking about power play points. Anyways, that he has a lot of That one irked a lot. He got one for the Ducks last night. He did. That one irked a lot of people in Pittsburgh. And the play that the Buffalo Sabres players at Malenstein makes it and he kicks it right to Conor McDavid with one second left and puts it right on his tape. It’s like that was crazy. And then uh Vegas scored with 12 seconds left to tie it up against the Islanders. Marner made an unbelievable keep in with a foot against the wall. Got it through and the puck went right to is it Doraf? I think it was. He’s having a tough time in the shootout this year. Who’s that? Mner. Yeah. Every clip I see of him is a puck’s rolling off his stick or like his his shootout stuff hasn’t been great this and and and Sid too. Sid can’t score a shootout goal either. It’s almost like we should just get rid of it. Bring back ties. Oh, he wants rid of three and three. You want I actually love shootouts. I don’t know what I’m talking about. I just love watching the Well, it’s like the guy’s inventiveness, but when a guy the puck rolls off a stick, it’s hard to watch. Yeah. Emil Heinman shoots one in the net for the aisles to get the win last night. 10 goals in the season for Emil. Wow. How How’d Noah Dobson do last? The other thing that Bob, you know what’s a hot button topic right now? Are these glove passes or not passes or touches or deflections? We saw another one last night in Edmonton. Um Oh, different one that I’m talking about. Oh, yeah. The Alex Tuck. Alex Tuck, right? And um Ta ended up scoring a goal that got disallowed. U and it’s like it’s almost like every night we’re seeing something with a glove. Well, so there’s that makes three then, right? Because was it Hegel on Tampa Bay and then what was the other Marand? Yeah, but this one was the most obvious fallback. Tuck had his lower hand on the stick, but it hits his palm, I guess. Well, it hit his he was coming forward because he was engaged in a battle and he comes over the top and he knocks it towards the net. Yeah. And then it hits the goalie and then uh Paige Thompson shovels it home. That one to me was the most obvious. I never thought about it like you can get a hand pass while holding your stick. Yeah. bonks off your hand as you were holding your stick. I don’t know. I thought it was obvious. Let’s get the opinion of a guy that’s played almost 1,200 games in the National Hockey League. Does a terrific job on Hockey Night in Canada Sports Met Sports Net. Let’s welcome in Gary Galley. Gals, how are you, pal? I’m doing great. How are you guys? What a what a crazy night last night. That’s what the uh NHL is all about. So, why all of a sudden is it these hand passes or glove deflections? And do we need to go back and revisit this whole thing because once upon a time you couldn’t pass a puck in your own zone? Right. In our era, you touched you you batted it moving forward in your own zone and it it the whistle blows down and then we said, “No, no, that’s okay. That’s okay in your own in your own zone now, but no, we cannot do in the offensive zone.” I mean, do we do we have to go back and look at this whole thing over again? Moving along. Nothing to see here. Just go. I mean, uh uh goals. I hate seeing goals um get taken away. That’s a frustrating thing for me. I think we’ve seen a lot of goals in the last little while, not counting. I think yes, when we played, you couldn’t hand pass a puck, period. Um now, it seems to be whether the puck deflects off a glove. Um, it doesn’t really matter if it’s not like pushed to somebody on purpose. I almost think it has to come to the point where if it accidentally hits you in the glove, if you’re standing in front of the net, accidentally hits you, I think there has to be some judgment on that. Uh, I think to lose two, three goals in a game, um, calling hand passes, I think it’s a little bit frustrating. U, goals are hard to come by and I think we’re we’re letting too many go. Goalie interference has cost some goals, hand pass. Uh yeah, I do think there should be a look at this particular rule. But then again, you know, anytime you if you add to a rule, you know, you you give the referee an opportunity to look at something a little closer and make a decision based on his opinion, whether it’s on purpose or not, then that becomes something that gets criticized a lot, too. Is it the right call, the wrong call? Uh but um certainly you hate to see one in a really important game come Stanley Cup time. Uh you got to get these things kind of dialed in, but certainly last night there there was a few ones there you thought could have got through and been goals. Did you think Tuck did it on purpose? He knew what he was doing. There was intent to push the puck. I I looked at it a couple of times and I’m like I’m not even sure Tuck knew where the puck was. I think you have to realize that professional athletes in any sport can make something not look like it’s on purpose and it could be on purpose. I mean, guys are good at it, right? They’re very talented. They’ve got great vision of where the puck is, great hand eye coordination. Uh but yeah, I it looked to me like that was not something that was done on purpose. It looked like it was more um just accidental or just trying to control it. Um so, and then you know, it’s a fertuitous bounce comes off it. the referee deems that to be a hand pass, especially in the offensive zone where a team could take advantage of that. So, if you’re going to look at the rule, you really got to get in a room with a number of people and beat it down and figure out what’s the best way to to handle it. Whether the neutral zone should be fine with hand passes, you know, maybe it’s just the offensive zone is the only thing you have to watch and then maybe uh you have the ability to look at it to see if it was done on purpose or not. Is there a mo like a kicking motion? Is there a motion where the hand is moving towards the puck to direct it or it’s not? Right. So maybe those kind of things are coming our way in the future. The other thing for Tuck is like even if he does see it and knows he’s going to hand pass it, it still makes sense to do it. It might hit off an Oiler player and negate it and just push the puck to a better area. So I get what he’s thinking there. I think he’s just trying to get the puck going in that right direction. Um and you could direct a puck with your skate into the net now. You could literally turn your skate, direct it. just can’t have a kicking motion. So, you could that’s how you should pass with your glove in the ozone directly. May maybe I don’t think they want a guy to be jumping up in the air and batting a puck to somebody going down the ice, you know. I don’t think they’re looking at that, but I think they’re they could streamline this for sure. Yeah, we uh we wanted to get you on today uh to talk about the Ottawa Senators first and foremost. We uh have been watching them since Kachchuck came back and expecting them to sort of rise up through the ranks of the Canadian teams here and they’ve hit a little bit of a of a skid. What’s your assessment of this Senators team? I I still think it’s a good club, but what’s going on with them these days? Oh, definitely a really good young club. I don’t think there’s any question that there’s enough talent on the Ottawa Senators uh to be a playoff team. I do believe that. I think at the start of the season, I really felt like last year’s playoffs really pushed them ahead. You know, once you get into those playoff games and your young, talented guys get those games in, it just really pushes you ahead in your franchise by leaps and bounds because those games are so big and to have them under your belt means a lot moving forward. So, I really expected this year they’d hit the ground running. My prediction for them in my mind when it started was I thought they’d be in the top three in the Atlantic Division. I think they’re a team that could vi uh for the top spot in that division if their goalending was to hold true. uh it didn’t hold true to start last year. There was a scramble at the end. And you don’t want to be labeled a team that plays better when you’re catching up. You want to be labeled as a team that you can take a lead, you can get ahead in the standings and you can hold your ground and not let teams pass you and separate from other teams and get to the playoffs feeling good about yourself. I don’t think you want to be a team that’s always catching up. whether it’s catching up in a game, being scored on first 17, 18 times, you know, that’s not going to help you. Uh, you know, and I I I just think that you don’t want to be a team that’s catching up in games to get in the playoffs at the end of the season as well. This is a team that I think when they went on that road trip, if they could have really asserted themselves on that road trip, and they started out two and 0 with Anaheim and San Jose, so it started really good, but then it’s just been falling off a cliff after that. You know, they just have not been able to get going. They’re one six and one since those two wins and again there’s a lot of questions around their goalending. Uh the goalender doesn’t seem to be worried. The goalender seems to be um very calm. Says it’s a long season. Says that you know he thinks it’s been better. Uh I think I would agree that November’s been better than October. Um but you’re still pitching an 887 888 save percentage and that’s not really going to be good enough. Now, if he goes on an incredible run, which we’ve seen him do, and he peels off, you know, 16 out of 20 and just really uh nails it down, then again, yes, it got done. The job got done. But I think you want to see a better start and get in a good position and separate from teams would be what I think the goal is in mind when you have a good team like Ottawa does. You’re watching and listening to Gary Galley, Sports Nets and Hockey Night in Canada’s number one analyst and Craig Simpson, too. You guys are tied, gals tied. Um, get on the fence. Uh as as far as the goalending is concerned, uh we s we’ve seen the Toronto Maple Leafs turn it around uh through strong goalending when when Joseph Wall returned and then uh the Hillbeast of course coming in and that’s a third stringer. We’re seeing the Montreal Canadians now saying enough with our goalending and they went to the miners and got out of Lavel their their top prospect uh Fowler and like at what point does does Ottawa go okay boys like at the end of the day 877 save percentages ain’t getting it done here. Is there an option for anything else but to stick you know between Hallmark and Marilen? Well, Ottawa is not the only team that’s, you know, had goalending issues, goalending trouble. Winnipeg, obviously, the injury to Hell Bucks put them in a tough spot. Toronto’s, you know, had a bit of a tough goal. Montreal, I think, has been uh I think they’ve been really really patient and um and and Toronto, I mean, they’re just playing a better all-around defensive structured game. I mean, they’ve only allowed six goals in their last five games. I mean, that’s that’s pretty tight hockey. That’s just not goalending. I think that’s that’s a whole team, you know, bu buying into um you know, what Craig Barubi has been wanting from them. And yes, tip your hat to Hilde and Wall. It’s been good goalending there for sure. For Montreal, is it the panic button? I don’t know if it’s a panic button. Uh maybe it’s something a stop gap. Maybe it’s sticking uh you know, a cork in this for a little bit to see if they can’t get their other two guys settled down. The thing with Dovish was he was playing absolutely fantastic and then he lost his first game. I think he was 6 and0. He lost his first game and he had this meltdown after the game. He’s not been the same since. And we’ve seen goalenders in the past that have these meltdowns after games and and look it, he cares. I get it. But you have to as a professional athlete, you have to control yourself a little bit. And I thought maybe he just got really out out of whack and he hasn’t been the same since. So he was a real story because Montbo wasn’t really playing up to snuff and Dolbish was carrying the mail and that’s why Montreal enabled themselves to get in the position that they were in. Now after that meltdown now nobody’s really playing great. Uh I think there are goals that are going in. I think their defensive structure has fallen apart. I think they’re allowing a lot of stuff in their zone that they can’t be given these high quality scoring chances. So now you’re going to bring in Fowler, the goalie of the future, the guy that they believe is going to be the guy. And there’s a lot of people out there that think this this this kid can do it. But if you had your brothers, you don’t want to bring him in now. You don’t want to bring him in in a storm. You want to bring him in when it’s timing so that the kid can come in and and not feel like the weight of the world’s on him. Now, what I hear about this kid is that he handles all this stuff extremely well. He’s a sharp kid. He’s very mature. he just really gets it. So, it’ll be interesting to watch him and see how it goes. Uh, I don’t think Marty St. Louisie ever loses faith in his players this quickly. So, I don’t think he’s lost faith in his goalending, but I do think he realizes that they’re struggling. Um, he’s come out and said it many of times. You know, Montabau just hasn’t fallen apart overnight and become a bad goalie. He’s been a good goalie. He’s it’s been a bad run for him. I think Marty will continue to be positive with them and hopefully Fowler could come in and give those guys a chance to exhale a little bit and give the team a chance to win some hockey games. G, um I believe you’re a golfer, so I’ll use an analogy here. Uh for teams that are bad, it’s like kind of like being like a 30 handicap golfer or something. If you work at it, you can get to a 20 fairly easily. You put in the time, whatever, you can get better quick. Once you get good, it gets harder to shave those strokes, right? And that’s Montreal to me. They were bad. They bottomed out. They got to they made playoffs last year. And in terms of taking the next steps, trying to get that handicap down to being, you know, one of the league’s best players here. I’m not sure how they’re going to get looking at the way they’re built. I’m going to go ahead and say I look at Anaheim, they’ve got big guys, young guys, Senaki and Goce and Carlson, and you know, they’re bigger. Montreal’s skilled now. Crazy skilled to watch. Is the next piece finding some physicality to layer on to get better for them? Uh, I lost the golf analogy, but you get the point. Well, you know, I I look at the playoffs last year where there was no doubt that the Washington Capitals tried to obliterate them early in that series. They tried to just run right through them. And one of the players for me that played really well in that series that I thought and and and you know and it was Josh Anderson. Mhm. You know, he really stepped up and the playoffs and everything going on there in Montreal, he really bought into being a playoff player and I thought he played really well. There’s a big strong guy. Um, you know, you need those kind of guys. You talked about Heinman earlier, Emil in in in New York. He scored the gamewinner last night. I really liked him as a player in Montreal. He didn’t make mistakes. Good good both ways. He can score some goals. He can also really play good defensively and he’s strong. He seemed like he really battled hard. So, I think over the years, you’re right, they have become a sexy sports car. They’ve got a lot of really, really good talented players. Um, they’ve got themselves a good coach. Um, they’re working on being a better all-around team. I think Marty knows what it’s going to take for them to take the next step. I’m not sure. I think everybody around watching Montreal has higher expectations than maybe the management and the coaching staff for Montreal. They still feel like they’re on their path and that yes, it’s not going to be perfect all the time. This is a young team, but they’ve got to keep building, keep getting confidence, um keep fixing the things that need to be fixed. And I do agree with you. I think they have to start looking at at at getting a little more sandpaper, a little more grit. Yes, you got Jack guy on the back and Anderson’s playing on your fourth line. Gallagher’s got a lot of sandpaper, but he’s he’s getting a bit long in the tooth. You know, it it’s getting harder and harder for him. So, yes, you need to start getting in some young big strong guys. Um, you know, I I go back years, you know, when when you take cockin Emmy and you don’t take Kachchuck, you know, imagine if the Canadians drafted Kachchuck at that time. You know, now you got that big big, you know, big winger. He’s got a little bit of, you know, spin in them and everything like that. So, I think the Montreal Canadians have done a great job. They’ve got a lot of talent there. I think they’re exciting to watch. I mean, you’re you’re not going to get more excited than watching them, but I do believe they need to shore up in a little bit of size and grit in those areas if they’re going to make runs in the playoffs. G, when we look at the uh the Eastern Conference, uh we look at the bottom teams to the top team separated by just eight points. But we also see five of the six in the Atlantic Division. And for some teams like Toronto who was off last night, they watch uh the Islanders get points off of a Western point uh Western team Vegas. You see Philly taking points last night over San Jose. You see Pittsburgh getting at least a point here. And you know, while we we we think it’s a good week, there’s a number of teams that you have to jump and it’s hard on every given night watching others get points when you’re off. And I’m looking at again five of six in the Atlantic uh that that are at the bottom. Uh Montreal, Toronto, Buffalo, um Ottawa, of course, uh and Florida. I is this really shaping up for you that we’re going to see five teams in the playoffs in the metro and just three in the Atlantic or is there just too much hockey to be played right now still for you? I I think there’s a lot of hockey to be played. I I really do believe that. I I I think that looking at it now, I I can see why someone would say yes, I do think that could possibly happen. There’s a very good chance that could happen. Um I do think there are some teams that are going to bite in a little bit, but I also think in the next up till Christmas, we’re going to see some separation. I think there’s going to be some teams that are really going to start to fall out. the the more these teams draft great players because they they’re in the position to draft great players, they’re getting better and they’re more sustainable. So, they’re able to sustain being in the in the in the race longer because of it. But eventually, it falls off because of, you know, they’re young and they’re building like the things we just talked about. But to get over that hump, you got to win these games, be in it. Like Anaheim, they’re doing a great job. They’re young guys. They’re big. They’re coming out. They’re tough to play against. Now you got to sustain it and you got to hold it. When all these teams are coming banging on your door and they’re going to come, the ones that are used to being there. We saw Boston, they’re not given an inch. I didn’t have them in the top three in the Atlantic. They’re not given an inch. They win last night. Pastnack and Geeky didn’t even score and they won. They find ways to Yeah. Yeah. They find ways to win. And and and Castellic, right? I mean, Guts, too. So, you got to find ways to win. You got to figure out how to be a team that can get get to the place you want to be and hold your ground. And I think we’re going to see some change here. Um, I just don’t see it staying this way. U, Tampa flexed. They’re back where they are. Am I sold on Detroit? I don’t I’m not sure. Uh, I’d like to think that they got to start taking steps forward soon, but I don’t see them. I just can’t feel that yet. But they’re really playing well and they’re earning where they are. So full marks to them. Uh for Toronto and Ottawa and Florida, they’re going to have to pull up their big boy pants here. They’re going to have to get going here after Christmas. You know, these games move fast. And the and and the more teams you have to leaprog, the harder it is. So it’s not just the four to six points. It’s the five to six teams. Yes. That are all playing each other and accumulating points at the same time you are. Like Toronto just what 40 and one their last five. How far did they get? And and and like three-point games, right? Three-point games. Yeah. A part of that jump. Makes it a for sure. It’s difficult. Are we good on time? Where are we at? You got another one for gals. La last one for gals. Uh just a thought. Edmonton Oilers last night. Uh we had had the talk in the show Sam the other day. He’s like, “I can’t believe I ever doubted them. They’re so back. The Oilers are the Oilers again. Here they go.” And then they lose to the Sabres. Uh the Oilers are still the Oilers, right? They’re just kind of going through it a bit right now. The Oilers are the Oilers, but you know, their stars have wok it up a little bit. You know, when you get Heyman back, that’s that’s huge. Ryan Nugget Hopkins, you can’t you can’t really calculate how much it means to get those two guys back in your lineup. I mean, it’s it just slots everybody in the right places as far as their forward units are concerned. They’re a better on attack mode. They’re scoring more goals. Um, I think their goalending is always going to be questioned whether whatever Skinner does or not, it’s always going to be a question. I think they’ve had some bad boo boos in their games where guys are making really really poor mistakes as as hockey players in bad areas of the ice. So, I think you got to clean that stuff up. Um, but I was shocked last night of all the guys that the teams that came back in the last 15 seconds to score big goals and create all kinds of ground swell, three of the four teams lost shortly after that. right? Either the overtime or the shootout. So, didn’t really go far. So, but you get that extra point. Sometimes a point feels like two points. Uh and for Edmonton last night, they could have easily lost that game to Buffalo. Like Winnipeg got down three nothing. Look what happened. They couldn’t get out of it. Doesn’t matter whether Shiffley and you know that line Shifley and Connor and Valardi are on point. You need other guys and you can’t get down three nothing against a good team. So for Buffalo, you know, a team that is pretty fragile, you could see a team like Edmonton getting one quick like Connor did 10 seconds into the period and getting some momentum in the building and then putting Buffalo on their heels that you could see. But against a really good team, uh I think it’s going to be a lot harder for Edmonton to do that. So yeah, it looks like some things have gotten back to normal, but there are some things that still look the same and and that’s always the frustrating thing with Edmonton. But when Connor is is going and dry and you got Heyman and Nan Hopkins back in the fold, you know, they are a tough team to defend. Okay, I cannot let you go without getting you, especially you as a defenseman played 1149 games. Um, a thought on Bousard and his giveaway last night from behind the net to Tage Thompson for maybe one of the easiest goals he’ll ever have in the history of hockey. Yeah, it was it’s a shocker almost, isn’t it? How many of those have you had in those 1149 games and how did they affect you? Like I will tell I will tell you this. I have scored on my own net while on the power play. So that is as drastic and as bad as you can feel. So we’re on a five on four power play. I’m playing for Philadelphia at the time. We’re playing against Chicago and we’re in the umbrella. So as the umbrella starts to shift over, I’m moving down towards the hash mark on the left side of the ice and Kevin Denine is up in the middle of the ice and Kevin throws me a puck and he comes walking over. I throw it back to him and he misses it and it goes all the way down and because there was a delayed penalty, we were actually going on a five on three. Oh no. Our goalie had left the net. So I move over and go to pass it to him and I miss him like a simple 10-foot pass. You know what I mean? And all the way to hit the dead center of the net. Dead center. Couldn’t have missed it. And um of course the Blackhawk players had a just a beautiful time ripping into me about that from the bench and everything. But yeah, you do make some gas. You make some bad ones in your career. I mean, you do. You can’t play in in the best league in the world and with the pressure that’s on you and not make some mistakes. So, yes, the Bard mistake is one you hope that you’re strong, your most veteran player, the ones you count on, you pay the most for being consistent, you hope that’s not going to happen very often. The timing of it is, I guess, you’d rather happen in game 25 than you have it happen in game two of the playoffs. And hopefully that’s something he could shake it off. Veteran players normally shake it off. That’s a young kid that makes that mistake and and and causes a game or something, it could take a while to get over it, but for Bousard, veteran guy, you know, he’ll shake it off. Sometimes the the really bad mistakes, guys, you forgive yourself more for the real brain cramp ones. It’s it’s it’s some of the other ones where you miss a check or you miss somebody or someone you should have had sometimes the the real bad ones. I mean remember Ray Bourke, we we used to call him Ray Ray giveaway and uh you know we’d get on them and you know and I remember you know Mike Milbury coming in the locker room and saying I got to tell you he says once a game Ray once a game you always throwing up the mill you give it away. But you know what the crazy thing and I say this because you guys know I have so much respect for for Ray is uh is that two shifts later he’ll come around the back of the net. He’ll make that same play. Yeah. It won’t even phase him. He’ll put it right through two sticks and a set of legs right onto someone’s tape. And that’s that’s what makes him a great player. I I I gotta think that’s the case with Buchard that it it feels like it’s it it happens so often that he’s never going to be in a position to completely put himself down. This is just the way it is and I’m a high-risisk guy. I’ll make it up on the other side. Goldfish memory, baby. Back at it. Yeah, just the Yeah, don’t have a long-term memory. Just let let it go. And you know what? It’s You guys know this. It’s easy to say that. It’s easy to say, “Oh, I’m just going to let that go.” Yeah. It is not that easy. What’s not easy is is the long look you get from teammates on the bench. Oh, yeah. Well, you feel it from the press box, too. Believe me. And you feel it from the general manager booth. And it’s it’s it’s it’s it is a hard thing to do to let it go. And you know, when losing streaks happen, you take it home with you. It never goes away. You’re at even though you might go home and you got, you know, your family and the kids and it’s a distraction, it’s on your mind all the time. I mean, when you make mistakes and you’re not playing up to your capability, it bothers you. But that’s part of being a professional athlete. That’s part of, you know, that’s why I mentioned, you know, Dovish, like not handling that loss very well, and it seems to have really set set him off, you know, where I think he, you know, he was too hard on himself. So, yeah. Anyway, I I tried to make the show really good, so I’m going to be getting hate mail from all Ray’s fans. And uh and Ry is probably on my phone right now. Somebody has reached out to them and told them why I called the Ray Ray giveaways. Well, keep it our little secret there, guys. For sure. Perfect. YouTube. Don’t say a word YouTube. Okay. Nothing in the chat. Secret squirrel. Secret squirrel. Gary Galley. Everybody. Hockey night Canada. Great sports. Uh yeah, it was great. Uh okay, we got to go. Oh, do we? Every time Sammy goes, we got no time. Keep like all right, one more. I mean, it’s like, yeah, we got a doctor on the other side. We got to do game time. We got doctor to doctor. We got to go. Okay, we got to go. We got to go. Well, I got to do game time and then we got to go. Okay. I just got my hand slapped by producer. You did. I mean, if you had to let him go and I asked you to, then we could have had another conversation. You know, he’s producing. We’re going to break. No, I’m going to game time. Oh my god. It’s game time. It’s game time. Presented by Bed 365. Visit the athletus odds and see why it’s several ordinary bet 365 most 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Uh Wednesday night hockey tonight Scotia Bank Wednesday night hockey uh features the Detroit Red Wings and the Calgary Flames. A lot of red lot of red lot of red in those jersey. My favorite to watch personally, but I will be watching. And I think the shoulders of the white Flames jerseys versus the all red of the Red Wings could be a little bit confusing if you’re playing on the ice. But anyways, I digress from that. Uh even on both sides of the money line tonight, minus 110 on both sides. Uh interesting to me. Flames are only now three points back of a playoff battle. Well, they were last time I checked. They probably went back because some teams played last night, but they’re not that far out of it. Uh I’m sure their fans are just thrilled about this electric playoff race. I’m sure they don’t want to re uh reset at all. Uh looking to tonight, Borney put Dylan Larkin obviously on his uh Olympic roster today. Good year. So, I’m gonna give a Dylan Larkin anytime goal because he’s so excited about Justin Bourne’s article. Give me a Dylan Larkin goal at plus 145 tonight against the Calgary Flames. And that was game time presented by Bet 365. Visit the latest odds at CY ordinary. Bet 365 plus 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. One of my best buddies in the world, Keegan Patterson. It’s his birthday today. He’s going to the game. Diehard Red Wings fan in Calgary. Shout out Keegan. Shout out. Uh, also that article, uh, Canada’s view of the American roster. Uh, look at what the what they’re going to be bringing to get Canadian tears out of us. It’s on sportset.ca. Okay, let’s take a quick break. When we return, we go back for our Have we had Dr. Jason Smith on yet? He just texted me that he’s on. So, we got to go. Dr. Doctor Doctor next. He’s a doctor. The real Kipper and Borne show. A reminder that this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365. Okay, you wanted it. You’ve asked for it. Sent us countless emails. Let’s go to doctor. Do doctor doctor doctor. He’s back. Good to have you. Hey, doctor. We just ran a little late, but now you know what it feels like to sit in a waiting room, don’t you? Hey, not my JB. JB, full credit for that one. Um, all right. Let’s get right into it because I don’t know, people want to associate with uh the Olympics and cramming in games and, you know, they instantly go to all these injuries are because the Olympics are coming up and we’re we’re we’re not practicing and we’re just focusing on all these games. Is professionals uh Dr. Smith like do you guys talk the same way as regular fans going there’s a link here? you know, it’ll be teased out like once we get the injury data for real. Um, we’ll know whether this is a real thing or not, but you know, anytime you get injured, guys and their fans, you look for an excuse. You look for a reason. And and and that’s a good one. Now, is it a legit reason? me, you know, you uh listen to Valley talk about, you know, cramming more games and less practice time and all these things and yeah, those are variables you consider. You know, the big one overall that we talk about a lot in sports science is, you know, the workload, you know, say over a month and then their workload over a week. And it’s those real changes in workload, those acute, sudden changes that are the real dangerous ones. Like guys, a guy who’s, you know, a fourth liner, suddenly on the second line, first line playing a ton more. Those acute changes are the ones we really worry about in sports. You know, the the change in number of games, amount of practices, it’s it’s real, but it’s not huge statistically. So, I’m not jumping on board yet and blaming it at all. Uh, all these injuries, these abductor tears, everything else on this workload, but it is something to consider. You’re taking all variables into account. Okay, so we’re going to get into a few things, but I want to get into the goalies. And we know what’s happened in Toronto uh with Joseph Wall and Stallars. Both these guys big workloads early and then they get hit. There’s Hella Buck of course uh in Winnipeg. There’s Demco situations. Is it real now that the workload of a goalie at 50 plus games now it just it can’t happen anymore? These these goalies are too big. They fall harder and there’s just more wear and tear on on these guys. You’re right. The you look at the way a goalender moved 15, 20 years ago versus how they’re moving now. The explosiveness um how strong they are, how fast they’re moving, how how hard they’re skating forward and backward. not just side to side and all this now like so their demands are higher there’s no question you know can they not play 50 games you know I don’t know with the with the advent and sports science and everything that goes into it but I’ll tell you you know adductor tears these soft tissue injuries we’re not talking about the ligaments of the knee and stuff like that these soft tissue injuries are the classic workload injuries that’s a sign of fatigue igue, didn’t get adequate rest, heart rate wasn’t normal before the game, playing too much over those two weeks. So, when you see adductors, obliques, those things, you really start twigging in. This is a workload fatigue thing rather than, you know, a fluke or or their conditioning. Uh, doc, appreciate you joining us today. I wanted to get the chance to ask you about another guy in the Leafs here, Chris Tanv. Uh, you know, there’s some vagueness around his injury. Sounds like, you know, what we’re piecing together could be something discish. We don’t know uh exactly. We’re trying to pin down what this is. He’s had a lot of wear and tear over the years. What is your impression of what may be happening and what that forecast might look like? And just what we saw, a whiplash. We we did see the head snapping back, right? And it’s not too typical that we see this, but we we do on occasion. Yeah. So, good questions. In typical NHL fashion, we have no idea. They don’t give us any real information. Um, what exactly is it? So, we’re all speculating. We’re all just guessing. That being said, you know, I I I looked at that injury and that that sudden snap back and you think about everything that exists around the neck and it’s different than other joints and that, you know, the spinal cords there, the nerve roots are all there. And I had to brush up on some stuff. I talked to my good friend Dr. Kevin Grant who’s a spine surgeon out out in our hospital and we were kind of going through all these different syndromes, myofascial syndrome, central cord syndrome, all these weird things that it can present. So with them not giving us any good information, you know, it’s really hard to hard to guess, but you know, the cervical spine um you know, with its mobil mobility and and distresses on it, these are tricky issues. Um, do you guys remember all that stuff with Jack Eel back in the day? Like when it becomes a real problem like the answers aren’t simple and and and Boring I heard you talk about, you know, maybe just a little micro dissectctomy and you know he’s back and you know that’s more for the lumbar spine. Once you’re up in the cervical spine things are trickier. Traditionally, you actually have to go and infuse that level, actually join the the bones together in order to decompress those nerves. So, it’s not one of those little simple things just go out and kind of trim away a little part of the disc. If he has to have surgery, it’s legit. So, looking at that injury, you know, I’m thinking, okay, first off, is there a fracture? Is there if a set fracture compression of of of the spine? And the fact that he wasn’t wearing a collar, wasn’t walking around like that for a while, you know, kind of rules that out. Now, nerve root, does he have some weakness? Does he have pain? Does he have tingling? Um, I would probably guess that’s what’s going on. Generally, those do resolve on their own without surgery, but like we see every now and then, guys knife for that, but it’s not a simple little straightforward thing. I got to ask you about uh the the battle between the Buffalo Sabres and Jack Eel way back when about this new type of surgery. Buffalo wanted nothing to do with it. Jack ended up getting it. It was a huge tugof-war. Uh here we are years later. He’s thriving in Vegas. Won a Stanley Cup. How do we look at that surgery back then as this big mystery to what it is today? Well, I I guys still aren’t getting artificial discs. That’s what he he got an artificial disc put in. Like nobody had that ever like in NHL. I hadn’t heard of it in pro sports. So it’s just not that he was going a little outside the box. He was going a lot outside the box. Now it worked. That’s an N of one. You know, should everybody go out and get artificial discs? Talk to the spine guys. And they’re still like, uh, no. The gold standard is to is to fuse that level. So I’m glad that worked out for him. But you know that was quite experimental and is definitely still today not the gold standard and that’s messy when that happens right when when a guy you know because these decisions ultimately have to be okayed by the by the team physicians and they didn’t okay it didn’t I if I remember correctly that’s why he got moved they basically had to let him go and they got picked up so he could have that surgery so messy messy stuff but NHL hockey players they keep proving that may not work for Joe, you and I, but they somehow get through it. Landisk, that stuff with his knee, you know, him coming back and seeing him skate this year. Like remember that that last minute of of their game against Dallas where he was on the ice for a minute and a half with artificial cartilage in his knee? Like crazy. These guys come back from this stuff. But let’s not all go jump out and get artificial discs and cadaavver knees and stuff like this before you know you got to take it with a grain of salt. These are these guys are kind of superhumans. So we know with certain guys there’s risks uh with everything right and they have to make their decision but like that it puts a ton of pressure on you obviously as as a medical staff too. It can’t be easy for for athletes to look at you or anyone else and go, “Hey, doc. Um, you know, what are the risks?” And for me with my concussion, it was like, “Yeah, you come back, you take another punch like that, you could die.” And I’m like, “Okay, right.” And it’s like, but how like for you guys to be on that other side, it can’t be easy as well to definitively say, “Oh, no, you’ll be fine to I don’t know if you’ll ever walk again if you take another hit like that.” Well, that that’s it. There’s tremendous pressure, right, to try to because you you want to be positive. You want to encourage these guys. You don’t want to be the guy to make a big statement like this is really bad, man. Like, your career could be over here. But, you know, fortunately, these decisions aren’t made just one person anymore. like the agents have their guys, the players have their guys, medical staffs, there’s multiple um members of the medical staff, we’re getting second opinions, we’re getting third opinions. So, you come to a consensus. So, rarely do you have to look a guy in in the eye and say, you know, man, I think the career’s over. I think that’s it. Time to time to time to go get a real job, you know. So, it’s usually a team uh decision. Uh but those are tricky conversations for sure. Well, and so I’ll use this uh platform the chance to ask you a stupid question. It’s a pretty stupid question, but that’s, you know, we’re we’re used to that on a show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s fine. You know, are some people just built in a way that you can’t really help them as a doctor? Are they too fragile? I’m going to go ahead and explain what I mean. Like Josh Norris twice has taken a face off and his his shoulder’s just gone. He’s just he can’t use his shoulder for like six weeks after that. I don’t know what’s happening there specifically with Norris, but it does feel like some guys are just more prone to their body being unwilling to cooperate. No, no question. There’s huge genetic variability in these guys. Now, most of that gets sorted out and that they don’t make it to the NHL, right? But you know the guys that are there even that there’s the guys that are the the hyper relaxed guys that their shoulders are separating that their hips are loose and you always kind of worry about guys. But on the flip side the guys that are too stiff then you know their their muscles are tearing and and something’s got to give in these situation but there’s huge variability between these guys. You look across a pro pro locker room and you’re like, “What? You’re a pro hockey player?” And like next guy’s like, “You’re you’re what a pro looks like? That’s what it should look like.” And and it’s crazy. They are so different in their morphology. And Phil Kessle misses zero games. And in the dressing room, you weren’t like, “That’s the athlete.” Yeah. Yeah. Echin, his diet, his lifestyle, like he’s eating Subway and Cheetos and What? Yeah. Exactly. Hey, like it’s it’s genetics. They they won the genetic lottery, these guys. Let’s let’s let’s just admit it. Yeah, 100%. Great stuff, man. Really appreciate your time. Great to be on. Good to see you guys. Dr. Jason Smith, elite orthopedic surgeon to the hockey stars. Interesting. Interesting stuff. It makes me want to do like yoga or something as one of those hyper stiff guys who’s going to tear muscles as they get older. Interesting. Yeah. I was even interested yesterday with Steve Alakette saying that, you know, goalies have two type of groin pulls. One each way. Yeah. Each way. Yeah. One pushing out too fast, one pulling in too hard. It’s not good. What do you got? Oh, just some things. But I mean, I don’t know where you want to go. Well, I just wanted to follow up on Evan Buchard’s giveaway. Oh, is that just enough for Hockey Canada to go, oh, we cannot we cannot have that happen. Can’t can’t can’t I sent a tweet a month ago like, “All right, they got to take him.” And since then, he’s turned over 11 months. Oh my god, that was so bad. You know, GI said my mic was off. He was like, you know, we’ve all had some bad giveaways in our time or whatever. And and I said out loud just in instinctual like every week. Yeah. Like what’s the amount of these that’s okay to have? And yeah, but like Bart his point like Ray Bourc he will go out the next game step out from the net with two four checkers like that and then saw one three zones and landed on someone’s tape for an unbelievable play. So he’s just sleeping. He doesn’t have his heart is like Thomas Kberly, right? His heart rate didn’t go up like he just no panic and you got to have a little panic. Got to panic once in a while kind of panic. You got to panic. All right. Does any guys on Who’s that? Does Doc skate with you guys at all? Do you get him out? No. I was wondering if he plays hockey at all anymore these days. Uh player himself. Too fragile. Probably scared he’s going to get hurt. Um he knows how the sausages made. Uh 16 cities in the running for the 2028 World Cup. Who have they eliminated if you’re down to 16? So I don’t think Toronto was interested last I heard. Is that right? Which is weird, but you know, I don’t know. I’d love it to go to like Saskatoon. Yes. And like But you know how this works, eh? How much money are you going to pay us for us to come to you? Yeah. But like I would like it to go to smaller cities that are going to support it way more than Toronto. You go to your local got millions of dollars now to pay their local tourism agency would say, “Yeah, let’s do it. Bring it into the tune. Bring it into town. They’ve been saving for this. They got money. They’re farmers. Those guys are doing great. Yeah. Like just bring it to some Bring it to Halifax, bud. Do you see what they did in Halifax? The World Juniors. They go nuts. Like these small places, not tiny, but like smaller places support these things so much better. And I just like, yo, put it in Toronto again. A goal in Saskatoon. This guy is the king of Saskatoon. It’s just like, great, let’s do it in Toronto again and have it all be suits that got these tickets through corporate event. It’s just like don’t totally agree. But it’s someone where people are going to care. Suits are the ones that have the money. It’s not always all about money. It’s their money. God, it’s all about the money. It’s not about passion. No, it’s not about loyalty. Cha-ching. It’s about Saskatoon. Damn it. Cha-ching. Cha-ching. Be the Saskatoon Show from now on. The tune. All right, we got to go. That’s a good show today, boys. It was really fun. Yep. Our thanks to Luke Fox, Gary Galley, and Dr. Jason Smith, you’re not on tonight, are you? Uh, no. Enjoy Scotia Bank Wednesday night hockey tonight.

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee share their reactions to William Nylander being dropped to the third line, their expectations for that line in the Toronto Maple Leafs’ upcoming game against the San Jose Sharks, and their thoughts on Bobby McMann’s suspension. Then, Sportsnet’s Luke Fox joins to chat about Ryan Reaves’ return to Toronto and to give an update on the Sharks. Hockey Night in Canada’s Garry Galley then stops by to talk about the Senators’ struggles since Brady Tkachuk’s return, if the Canadiens should call up Jacob Fowler, and the Oilers’ inconsistency. Later, sports orthopaedic surgeon Jason Smith comes on to discuss the uptick in injuries around the league, Chris Tanev’s situation, and why some are still cautious of Jack Eichel’s artificial disk surgery.

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0:00 – William Nylander Demoted Reactions
30:16 – Luke Fox
56:00 – Garry Galley
1:23:17 – Dr. Jason Smith

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Real Kyper & Bourne – December 10, 2025

#NHL #hockey #podcast