Giants Legends Roundtable: Stories from ’86 & ‘90 | New York Giants

Giants Legends Roundtable: Stories from ’86 & ‘90 | New York Giants

We’re here at Tommy’s Tavern in Tap. We got a little legends roundt talking 8690. And who better to have to talk about it than Super Bowl MVP Phil Sims, Super Bowl MVP Otis Anderson, twotime Super Bowl champion Mark Collins, and two-time Super Bowl champion Carl Banks. All right, we got a lot of rings here, and we got a lot of stories between these guys. Phil, I’ll start with you. You guys went 10-0 in 1990 in route to win in Super Bowl 25. Uh you were dominant 14-2 in 1986, best team in the National Football League. What was the similarity between the two teams and the differences in those two teams? The similarities that uh toughness was one thing. Uh big teams, I think the Giants, all the years we were there, we were one of the bigger teams in the NFL because we had this coach really that believed in that stuff. So those similarities are there. But I think the 86 team was more wide open than the 90 team was. 90 it became I I held out that year hoping to get a new contract. Didn’t work. Uh but the 90 team I remember Bill Parcels calling me Sims you got to get to camp this run game and our offensive line we’re going to mush people. To me that was the big difference. The 90 team it was about we’re just going to work you over and beat you down. And it was two different ways to win. The offense in 1990 was what do they say? Ground and pound. But I would say grind it out. That’s what it was about. I can’t tell you how many times I’d walk on the field or get ready to certain games playing the Dolphins, great Dan Marino, all that. And I’d be walking out the field and parcel go Sims. And I knew what he was going to say. And I’d turn around and go, “What?” He’d go, “Kill the clock.” So my my most important job was to stay in the huddle long enough so we snapped the ball with one or two seconds to go. And you guys, it played to you. Yeah. Played to the defense big time. I mean, we had lowscoring games, but dominant games. Dan Marino, I think that day we did a great job, Bob. He found a way to get three points for the Dolphins and it was the fastest game maybe in NFL history. In ‘ 86, we knew we were better than everyone. And if you look the way Joe performed, Mars, that is had just a great season. Yeah. So, it was easier to say that we will probably get to the Super Bowl. Plus, George Martin said to me when I walked into the locker room, he said, “You’re the missing piece that we need.” Me behind Joe, pushing Joe to be the best he could be, made us a better running team. And then the versatility was me playing fullback as well as halfback so he can have Joe and I both on the field at the same time. So, that was the strategy. I think we were good because we made each other better. Yeah. And I thought that was kind of the hallmark of our 86 team. That’s why we believed in each other and how we became so dominant. Mark, what was it like coming into this mix of you’re not going to a bad team, you’re going to a team that’s feeling championship. Yeah. I I just wanted to come in and fit in and I played a a pretty big role on the 86 team. One thing about being a rookie, I’m a second round pick. So, expectations are on me a pretty damn high. So, I got to raise that my game up to match that. You got to know what the hell you’re doing because you’re trying to impress the coaches, but more so what I was doing was trying to impress these guys because the coach is going to ask these guys, “Hey, what’s this Collins? How’s how’s he looking? How’s he looking? Phil’s throwing the ball at me. I’m knocking the ball down.” That kind of stuff. Hey, that guy can play. Once you win your rank and foul over, the rest is easy. You just got to go out there and play. Collins takes it at the two, the 15. He’s got room. Collins to the 30. Collins at the 40. Collins may go all the way. They’re chasing it from behind. The 30. Collins to the 20. Touchdown. The rookie from Fullerton State, Mark Collins, returns the opening kickoff. 98 yds. Our 86 team, we cared about each other. But one thing that made us good, our strength and conditioning coach, Johnny Parker, was awesome. We were physically stronger than a lot of teams. Our 86 team was we were expected to win. Our 1990 team, we were not expected to be that good, right? But damn, we were good. We were we were really, really good. We started 10 and0 that year. Yeah. And no one me, we didn’t even mention it was a 10 and0 and every week it was day one butt. Day one but day one made sure we knew that too. Yeah. He kept saying stop reading the clippings. You ain’t good as you think you are. Always said that to us. Doesn’t sound like Bill. What I remember Banksy, we drafted Rodney. You remember ‘ 89. I’m like you, Sam. I just go over a thousand yards, right? I’m feeling myself. I’m thinking, you know, I’m about to get paid now. You know, I’m, you know, and uh I tried a whole lot like you do at Trading Camp. I held out two days, right? Bill Parcels called Maurice. He said, “You have OJ’s number?” Mar, “Yeah, co.” He said, “You tell him he ain’t here by Sunday. Don’t even come.” Right. So Maurice calls me up. He said, “I don’t know how you want to take this, but uh just talk to Bill.” I said, “Yeah, man. Are they going to pay me?” He said, “No.” Bill told me, “If you in here, don’t come.” Well, you know, Bob, Sunday morning, I was there for weighin. Yeah. And never got paid. But you know that whole season in ’89 was a blessing because I think Joe got hurt and Bill didn’t believe in playing rookie. So we had Megan and we had Lewis Tilman. Yeah. And he went with me because of my seniority. And uh ‘ 89 the Super Bowl was in the state of Florida. I’d say come out of Miami. If it was in the state of Florida, I was the feature running back. I win MVP. We were playing Flipper Anderson, which is the Rams, you know. And then we we lose on the Philipp Anderson play and I I go in the locker room. I’m sitting like this here. I like, “God, man, I can’t believe my prediction never going to come true.” And Maurice said to me, “Well, you know the Super Bowl is in Tampa.” I said, “Tampa, Florida?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “We are going.” I said, “We are going.” And he said, “Why you figured?” I said, “It’s my destiny.” You know, you think about all these teams and all these facilities that they have and there’s ping pong tables and pool tables and there’s video game stations and all that other stuff. Obviously, you guys didn’t have any of that stuff. Obviously, but do you think that they’re missing out a little bit on kind of what you guys in your era had as far as team camaraderie? Here’s what they miss on a different level. They miss a single chair in the middle of a damn locker room and the first guy you see when you walk through the door is the head coach. No matter how early he got there, no matter how early he got Yeah. He was always there. Barcel is sitting in that little orange chair just waiting for a guy to come in and he says come sit down somebody he could talk to which was Maurice Carth let me just say about the chair I got this story so I come in I was always early cuz I wanted to get ahead of everybody so I get in there early there’s Bill sitting in that thing at the time he had a cup of coffee he smoked cigarettes I think and he sees me Sams come here and I can already hear it in his voice oh here we go and he I go yeah what’s going on coach and I’m trying to like walk away already. He goes, “How many uh passes did you complete in practice yesterday?” I go, “I don’t know.” He goes, “I’ll tell you how many. Not many.” And then, so I’m not saying anything. He goes, “I tossed and turned all night. My wife said, “Bill, what’s the matter?” He goes, “My effing quarterback can’t complete a pass. That’s my problem.” So, this is how my day start. That’s life with Bill Park. I don’t know what he did to all you guys. That’s what he did to so many players. Yeah. He put you on edge as much as he could. He would tell the story about old old red or old yellow the dog when he talked to me and he was saying that you know he I I guess I don’t know. Wait, he’s saying you were Old Yeller? Yeah. Yeah. You remember he Yeah. He said, “I’m going tell you a little story.” I said, “Okay, coach right there.” He said, “Well, this farmer had this dog called Old Yellow. Now, when he was young, the farmer would get up and Old Yellow run to the door. He wanted to get outside. He wanted to get outside. Okay. And then the farmer got a pup after old Yellow got old because he would come to the door and O Yella wouldn’t get up. He would just lay there and just look at it and he said, “Don’t worry about it. I got the pup.” So when the pup get up and run out the door, old yellow would get up and follow. So he said to me, he said, “I just want you to know that you’re old Yellow and Rodney is the new pup. So either you get up and follow him out there or you stay on the porch and we’ll see you next year. I had to watch film with him one day and Mark Bavaro’s running down and running to the corner and he goes, “Why’d you throw it to Bavar here, Sims?” You know, like I go, “Because he’s covered like real like I’m just” But he goes, “Sims, that’s what’s wrong with you. You just don’t understand. When he’s covered, he’s open.” That was his big thing. And I just went, “Okay, you’re right. I got you. because it was true, right? That’s where it all started. Just throw it’ll catch it. Bill Parcels to me is the greatest game manager I’ve ever witnessed or been around. The 86 championship game in the win to Giants. Yeah. How about just that game? He says, “Nope, we want to take the win behind us because I want to get on top.” He said it to me. I want to get on top of them and because then they got to chase us. He was so big and we we make them chase us. We got them. Yeah. Yeah. And man, thank God Washington could not handle the win. Cons, I mean, come on. The Duke, he was one of a kind. But all I can say is I’ve never seen anybody kick a damn ball like him in my life to this day. And you know, I think he’s a Hall of Fame guy. Oh, yeah. It’s like a bomb going off when he kicked it. Oh, one of the great games of all time, right? As Lawrence Taylor says, can you believe it? We might have won the game because of our blank punter. When you win the championship, you know you’re going to the Super Bowl. It’s the greatest feeling in sports. Would you tell the story in Indie with the halftime, the tip ball, and we I think we were up I I told we were up. Yeah, it was up 19 to nothing or 20 to nothing because Indie was the great team that was upsetting people on Monday nights in the dump. Yep. So that’s all we heard all week long. Do you remember him? And Eric Dickerson was there. Yeah. Just this team and whatever. So we’re we’re killing them. And I throw a pass in a right flat. Uh Maurice Carthon is wide open and Maurice as I’ve said, you know, instead of being right here, I threw it right there because the ball was tipped and Maurice kicked it up in the air and almost intercepted. And then Yeah. And then I walked out and says, “Come on, Sims. You got to hit that.” And I go, “Yeah, the ball was tipped.” He goes, “Don’t be making excuses.” Not making no damn excuses. A fact. Whatever. We blow up. We curse at each other. We say a lot of things. all that. But after the game, getting on the plane, mostly linemen, they would come up and go, “How did it feel? Did it feel great? I wish I could do that.” Yeah. Yeah. Everybody. Yeah. And all of a sudden, which I was very embarrassed about the whole thing. I became a folk hero for a little bit. I was surprised. That’s the first time I saw anybody say anything back to to Parcels. I mean, Parcels would say things and, you know, you would mumble on your voice, but you would not say anything. Yeah. We did it one time and he kind of pulled back goes, “Oh, Sims is mad at me. You want to hit?” And he says, “Do you want to hit me?” And I go, “Man, something is wrong with you.” F. You remember when uh LT and him got into it and LT they stopped talking for a couple of days? You remember? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, because they were so tight. Yeah. Oh, yes. Father and son. We all father and son. Yeah. And it was so dramatic the fact that they weren’t buddy buddy. you know, you come out to practice and it’s, you know, somebody’s joking on somebody, but Lawrence made a concerted effort to stay away from Bill. Didn’t want to talk to him. And you could just see Bill, you know, cuz he’s wear these little tight sweatpants. Yeah. Walk around and his feet go like this, right? Like [Laughter] tuna. He didn’t walk. Yeah. Tuna fins. And he’s walking and he stops and he just folds his arms and he just looks at Lawrence and Lawrence just, you know, mumbles some under his breath. And it was the best breakup ever. It was soap opera level breakup for what was it? A couple days anyway. Couple days. Oh yeah. Some of these guys got to get their head out of their ass around here. All right. So, Phil, obviously Super Bowl MVP. Well, not obviously. You know, this guy over there. No, it was obvious. As I watched the Super Bowl one day, I went, it was about five years ago, one of my grandchildren, I said, “Well, I’ll watch it with you. We watch.” And he goes, “You know, Carl Banks is really good.” And I go, “Is that what you took out of that?” And then when I saw the game, I went, “Damn, Carl had an unbelievable game.” Yeah. That one one of the greatest games a defensive player has ever had in the Super Bowl. I think over the long run, Carl Banks is going to be the best player in this Giant defense. I mean, he’s going to be there for a long time. I mean, he can do it all. I he can cover, he can run, he can tackle, he can do everything. You know, the Super Bowl, the MVP, everybody makes a big deal of it. It’s just not right because I I know the quarterback has an extreme advantage over everybody else, but they got to start giving an MVP to the defensive player. I think that’s fair. And I think it would be great for the game. Adding a defensive MVP of the game. Yeah, that’s what I mean. Yeah. I want an MVP of the game. Yeah. Along besides the offense, make one on each side, right? But other than the Super Bowl where you won the MVP, is there is there one game that when you think back is just like a Phil Sims favorite game? Oh, yeah. It’s Minnesota that turned my life around. Missed that game. And for many reasons why I like it, we won. It started a run where we just ran the rest out the whole year. The only We played some close games, but I never felt like they were close even then. But I think it just gave me confidence and the fact that we found a way to win there. What it did was it opened up our offense and we played much better for the rest of the year and in the playoffs. One thing I always wanted to know from you, Phil, was you notice the MVPs, they are always awarded a car. What kind of car did they give you? A Subaru. You see his face? A Subaru. A Subaru. The bad thing is I when I want I was fortunate enough to win the MVP of the Pro Bowl and I the game over said, “What kind of car do I get?” And they go, “There’s no car.” Then the following year they give away Cadillac Escalades. So, I’m not saying bad things about Subaru, but it took me a minute to get in it. I’m like, “Oh, damn.” They’re not really big cars. All right. So, for you, what about other than winning two Super Bowls, is there like one game that you’re like, man, I was just like so in the zone. That was a bunch of games, but I’m I’m going to bring this one up because I I thought it was it was a classic of how we worked on defense. So, we’re playing Dallas and Carl is known to jam the tight end before he gets up field. This particular play cuz Lawrence always rushing. He’s going to always They took the tight end from our left side, defensive left over to the right. And I’m going, “Oh.” Cuz I know what he’s going to do. He’s going to go. But Dallas didn’t know that. Oh, Danny White. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, I’m going, “Holy about to happen.” And you can see Carl lower his shoulder wobbers coming in and the ball is loose and the Giants have it. White was hammered. All I knew is Tony Dorset was back there. He’s either going to step into the line or he going to get me. I’m going to go 100 miles an hour. It was beautiful. Oh my god. Cuz he broke his wrist and I Oh, it was a fumble. Carl Banks is coming. See right in his face. He hits him square, the ball pops out, and Jim Burnt jumps on him. I don’t know who you blame on that cuz no one blocked Carl Banks. You give a shot like that where that guy comes straight at you, no one blocks him, you have to have the doctor check after a play like that. All right, so I’m going to I’m going to just hit you with some like associations right now. Uh when you think about that framework of those teams, uh best dress teammate. Wow. Um Bill Sams. Oh, no. No. Otis. Maurice Carthon. Maurice Carthon would wear all these new things and he’d talk about going to the club the night before or something and I’d said, “Well, did y’all dance and have a good time?” He goes, “Man, I will go sweat this thing up.” Maurice loved his clothes. I came from St. Louis dressing pretty good. And uh I even hipped Sims up to the place Onori and Papio. Oh, Papio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Otis was head to toe. Yeah. M and the guy who had the best ties ever was Phil and he used to keep it a secret until I’m in the mall and I see him walking out of Papon. And Phil was always dressed to impress and then Otis and then it was the rest of us. Uh funniest teammate. Well, the one I probably the the funniest teammate probably Mark was always up there. MC number one. But I but Lawrence was funny in his own way. Yeah. You know, because I mean, one day I went to get a pair of shoes out of his locker that were mine and I went and I found a a gold encrusted diamond watch at the bottom of it. So, I let a couple days pass and then finally said, “Lawrence, you know, I remember you used to wear that watch. I loved it. What happened?” He goes, “Yeah, I don’t know where that watch went.” So, how about um a most underrated teammate? I mean, you you played with a lot of great players, but maybe someone that isn’t remembered as much, you know, but were part of the great teams, but but played an important role for you guys. Uh, I’ll say Big Dog. William Roberts. Roberts. Big Dog. Big Dog was another jokester, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But William would always come in with something all every day, either some from Miami music wise. For me, it would be Maurice Carine. Oh, yeah. Okay. I thought most valuable teammate Yeah. across the board was Maurice. Yeah. Yeah. Because he would get you ready for a game, but he’ll get your special teams guys ready for a game. And if the special teams guys not doing it, he’ll go in and do it, right? And I just think for what he meant to our team as a teammate was incredible because you take the best guy and it didn’t take much cuz that’s probably why him and Bill were so tight. always every morning. If you had a guy Yeah. that needed to be taken care of in pass protection, right? Or in run in in your run scheme. Yeah. Run. Don’t worry about it. Mo would figure out how to get the guy on the ground and it would be violent. Yeah. I would I would say my guy would probably be Perry Williams. He rock. Perry. Me and Perry were were left, right corners for seven years. U probably the longest tenure of any giant corner duo. Oh, even nowadays. Yeah. So, I mean, and and Perry never never gets the the the credit cuz I play left corner. That’s like playing third base for the Yankees or goalie for the Rangers. You that’s that’s the hot corner and that’s where all you get to blame goes and Perry played the opposite. So, uh he’s a guy who doesn’t get enough credit and that’s a guy can always rely on. And he was a guy that you took somebody else’s fastest guy and said, “Perry, yeah, that’s right. You know, Perry, you know, he was a world class sprinter. Perry’s like, “Well, I was too.” Yeah. Yeah. He’s a good dude. For me, it was all my linemen. Yeah. Bard Oats was great. Brad Benson, you know, what were they called? Do you remember what part? Suburban. Suburban. Suburban. Perfect. And you know what it was? I mean, oh wait, come on. Chris, my right guard. Chris Godfrey. Chris Godfrey. Well, he was named Tunnel. And because if here’s where you’re supposed to line up or whatever, he would it had to be perfect. If he, oh, here’s the guy in front of me. I got to block him. But if he was moved one inch, well, he’s not quite in front of me, coach. What do I do? That’s how he got the name tunnel. Tunnel vision. Tunnel vision. All right. So, we’re going to do a little thing here called uh blind rankings. One is the best. Five is the fifth best. There’s no bad when we’re going one to five from 1986. All right. Bert hit on Montana Giant Stadium. Where do you put that? Well, I’m Let’s play it. I would say I I’ll go three. Montana weighed 175 lbs that game. [Music] Wildly intercepted. There goes Taylor down to the 20 touchdown LT LT. Way to go. We good with three. Give us a little leeway both sides. Three. All right. Flee flicker versus Denver five. Comes in motion to the right hand side. Pitch for turns around back to Sims on the flea flicker. Sims is looking way downfield. He’s got to receive it. Complete down to the 10. Five touchdown I believe. Mark at the one. Still in the pocket to the oneyd line. When they complete that, it’s over. Yeah, we’re kicking our ass anyway. Okay. Five. Uh George Martin interception against the Broncos. Wow. Wow. That’s kind of up there. That’s got to be two. I’m gonna say two. That’s got to be two. Motion toward the middle by Vance Johnson. Elway is looking for a target. Goes out to the right side. Intercept. It’s George Martin. 30 45 at the 45. Elway takes him and breaks the tackle. 40 35 30 for Martin. Martin to the 20. Martin to the 10. He’s in. What a run. So we have that as number two. Number three is birds hit on Montana. Number five is the flea flicker against Denver. Right. Start of the third quarter down 17- nothing. San Francisco Monday Night Football. Bavar. Yeah. God damn. That that you know what that’s almost a historic play that I still see today all the time during NFL coverage or whatever. They show that. Yeah. I’m going to say one. That’s a one. Yeah. That’s a motivational right there. That was that great. Oh, that was I run with one. Yeah. Complete the Bavaro down to the 35. Still his feet to the 30. Down to the 25. Down to the 20. He’s got four men on his back and gets down to the 17. Because of who he was dragging running and we saw it on the on the defensive sideline. We saw it dragging running lot like he was impressive. That was very impressive. A great running lot. This is classic and vintage Bavaro. This is what he does the best. He is just one tough cookie. He just carries 49ers all the way inside the 20. carry them for 10 yardds to get the first down and set up a possible Giant score. So that means number four is fourth and 17. Fourth and 17. Two receivers left. James D back to the 40. Sams throws completed. He’s in. Yes. At 30 yd line. First down. What a catch by Johnson. I mean listen it was a routine throw for Phil. It wasn’t like it again. So, let’s go to 1990. Since all four of you are twotime Super Bowl champions, we’re going to play the same game. Blind rankings. Sims and lot square off Monday Night Football San Francisco after the good. That was good. That’s a five. What did you say? I don’t know. I Oh, it was No, he looked at me on the sideline. Can’t believe said, “What the hell you looking at me for?” And so we started. I was like, “So, what was he throwing some shade your way?” I’ll tell you why. Yeah, it was Jim Bert. Yeah, Virgin was over there. Got it. Oh, Bert was on the other side. Of course, I never said never whatever. So, Ronnie, you mean Bert stirred the pot and he shot me during the game. Yes, he did. Yeah. All right, Gary Rez fake punt. Fake punt in San Francisco in the NFC champion. Four. Fake punt. And it’s going to work. It’s reasons. Reason streaking down to inside the 25 first down and much much more. That’s the call they needed. That’s the play they needed. They needed something to get them out of this. That’s a three. I would say three. I would say three. Go three. I’ll go three. That’s a three. The fake punts going down is number three. Three. Okay. Yeah, that’s three. Yeah. All right. Keeping that game. Eric Howard forcing the fumble of Roger Craig. Hit behind the line of scrimmage and the Giants had the ball. Lawrence Taylor out of the pack with the ball and you knew that the Giants were going for it and that’s what Bill Parcels is saying. Yep. We need it. I would say two. That’s a two. Yeah, that gave us a field goal. That was a gamewinner. Could they run the clock out at the time? Could they? Yeah, they could much. Yeah, they could have. Okay. Uh Leonard Marshall sack on Montana in that game. But chased out, Bailey hit from behind. The ball’s loose. And he really took a shot in that back. Leonard Marshall coming from the backside. Boy, that is a real shot. I I thought Brookke is back. But you know what? I mean, come on. I’m gonna tell you that had a part that really hurt his career. He wound up going to Kansas City because he missed the next year. Young became start right. But the effort that Leonard gave on that play kind of symbolized the type of team we were Yeah. cuz he literally had to get off the ground twice. That was kind of the spirit of what our defense was like, though. All right. So that puts at number four, Mark Ingram. Third and 13. Oh, all the one of the most incredible efforts. He’s got Ingram for maybe a first down. He’ll try to the 20. Yes, he got it. What effort? What effort? This This is a lot of fun talking about that that era. So, I have one last question for all of you. That Parcel’s little speech he gave to you after the game after Super Bowl 21. The rest of your life, man. Nobody could ever tell you that you couldn’t do it cuz you did it. As time has gone on, what does that messaging now mean to you? Well, it was right. And um I think winning the Super, but it’s something that can like you say, you can never take it away. And I just thank God that we did. I was part of two Super Bowl winning teams. Yeah, we can have conversations about what a dynasty we could have been, but I don’t know what it’s like to lose. Yeah, good point. Oh, absolutely. Uh, listen, I I played from four teams. I went to three Super Bowls. I lost one in Green Bay. Was with the Packers. But hey, listen, with these guys, these this is family to me. And winning two Super Bowls on my on my license plates, it says twotime champ. Does it really? Yeah. Oh, it says twotime champ. I’m damn proud of what I’ve done. Yeah. And these guys here uh that I won the championship with. Uh, I love these guys. What about for you as time is now? You know, it’s uh it’s kind of what everybody’s saying is to be in in two Super Bowls and win both Super Bowls and having a chance to score in both Super Bowl, you know. Well, you know, OJ, I can still your your play gets you running out there and giving him the off. I mean, that thing is the first play that almost comes up besides the kick. Yeah. Well, by far, you know, just having that. Well, we want to thank uh Tommy’s Tavern and Tap. Yeah. You know what? You know what we’re going to do next year, boys? What? We’re going to celebrate the 40th at I love it. I love it. I love it. 40 more. More stories to come. They’re here. And we got them.

Phil Simms, Ottis Anderson, Mark Collins, and Carl Banks swap stories from their Super Bowl championship seasons, presented by Tommy’s Tavern + Tap.

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