Frustration AND Optimism in Two Shootouts, Two Losses for the Philadelphia Flyers vs Carolina
It’s the Lockdown Flyers podcast for Monday, December 15th. Your daily dose of Flyers news, analysis, and high quality content that really does not like the deja vu of Sunday to Saturday. It was a weekend that was exactly the same both days almost. Your Locked On Flyers, your daily podcast on the Philadelphia Flyers, part of the Locked On Network, your team every day. Hello and welcome to Locked On Flyers, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, now the number one sports podcast network. I am Rachel Donner. I’ve been podcasting about the Flyers, the NHL, and hockey for a decade. And I’m here with prospect expert and Flyers credentialed reporter for 20 years, Russ Cohen. Today’s episode is brought to you by Fandal. So, if you want to be right in the middle of the action this season, visit fanuel.com and place your NFL live bets all season long to keep up with our latest episodes and Flyers news, you can find us at lockdown Flyers on Instagram threads, Blue Sky and Twitter. Russ Cam York did in fact return to the lineup on Sunday. We’re going to get into that a little bit later, as well as the big deal for Quinn Hughes and our nemesis of the week. got to talk about that big trade that was made there. But uh yeah, this backtoback was really frustrating and really encouraging in many ways, right? because we saw kind of the opposite happen between these two games where we saw Carolina fight back into the first game. We saw the Flyers fight back into the second game there and yet it still resulted in a shootout in the end. Unfortunately, it did not go the Flyers way either time. And you know, we’ll get into overall play, but Trevor Ziggress missing both shootout attempts between the two games like that was the difference I think in the shootout in a lot of ways. I guess in a lot of ways it was um he’s been missing lately like law of averages, you know. Again, I know I always say not blaming him at all. Let’s be clear. I look I I goenders do a lot of video work and they know the Flyers go to the shootout. So if you’re playing against the Flyers, you’re going to look at shootout moves. And I think Trevor Ziggress now has to change his his attempt on the shootout because the way he was going about it kind of fooled goalies at first going, you know, really slow. They don’t care anymore. No. No. but he played so well throughout the game otherwise both games and he’s continued to be like just a tremendous joy to watch and I feel so grateful he is on the Philadelphia Flyers. He’s like absolutely killing it. So, uh you know definitely appreciate his game. But I think overall as a team the the main thing that’s happening right now is the Flyers are having a puck possession problem. they can’t maintain possession and when they do they can’t move the puck effectively and that’s what you know made them fall behind in in in the one game and kind of lose control of the game on Saturday that they had been controlling for the first 20 25 minutes of the game then the the wheels fell off and they and Carolina was able to come back into it. So, just wondering what your thoughts are on this whole like puck possession and puck control issue that the Flyers are having. Yeah, I mean the puck possession is definitely a thing. I think there were some shifts. We’ve talked about it like Rebankin will have some good puck possession shifts, but you know there I think there was twice on the Saturday night game where they kept the puck in and did well. I would say in the last three games they’ve scored one or two goals by doing it, but for the most part they they lose the thread on it. And I think it’s a it’s a it’s part of having to play at a higher pace than they’re used to. And they’re playing some really high pace teams lately. And it does change the way you play. You don’t have that same amount of time to think. The processing time gets cut down. So I think I think that’s playing into it. And I think that’s you know what we’re seeing. Yeah, it’s interesting because I think it does follow from the Vegas game, right? We talked a lot about the physicality of that Vegas game, right? And the kind of the Flyers attempt to slow a a faster team down, right? And there are some similarities to facing Carolina. We talked about that in our preview. And Flyers had a lot of hits in that Vegas game on Saturday. the Flyers had 28 hits against Carolina and a ton of blocks and then on Sunday 23 hits and 18 block shots and that is that same physicality and when you’re focused on that because you’re trying to contain a faster more dynamic team your own offense can often go by the wayside I think. Yeah, I think listen the way Rick Tucket is coaching, he is coaching for the differential and this is a very dicey game when you play um for the differential. It could be frustrating at times. It’s one of those where every goal every, you know, every game gets decided by a goal. I mean, it’s just sometimes it comes down to one play and it’s hard to go through a whole season like this. And that’s why I’m starting to see the way the math is falling. And it’s like, you know, I don’t know if the coaching staff’s going to change the way they play right now, but they should a little bit. They should ease up on It’s good to have good defense, but the offense just isn’t there. Like, they’re one of the worst scoring teams. They’re ranked 24th, I think, in goals for, right? Yeah. Things are changing certainly. And I think the leveling out that we talked about is absolutely happening for the Flyers right now. And you know, I I don’t think it’s insurmountable, right? I think it’s something they can solve, but the problem is there. And I do want to call back to the question that I asked Rick Tocket about in terms of the fi the threeon-ree overtime and working on that and trying to win the game in overtime as opposed to relying heavily on the shootout because to your point the law of averages was going to come back eventually. Right. And it really was a great question because they’re not they’re not giving it their best offensively in overtimes. They’re not. I mean, I could prove it by saying you could see the way they were sitting back at times and then not playing Mate Mitchkov at all. Like, I don’t know why that happened. Like, all of a sudden, you know, Rick Tucket went from, “Hey, he was the next guy up in a game that he didn’t get used, but that’s okay.” Like, we all said, “All right, we get it. In this one, I don’t get it.” Yeah. You know, especially because they took him out of the shootout as well if you noticed that because D’vorak went in this time around instead of Mitch. the hard lesson thing. Sure. I mean, I get it. Sometimes Mitchkov is not playing at his best, but the hard lesson thing is just like he’s going through another season of hard lessons. Whether you like it, whether you don’t, that’s what’s happening right now. Right now, uh I do want to talk more about this overtime because again, the lack of Mitchoff in it and giving him the opportunity in the open ice where he is definitely more effective when he has the space to work with In both of these games, Carolina outshot the Flyers two to nothing, right? So, the Flyers had no shots on goal in each of these two overtimes. And that’s that’s what I’m talking about here where, you know, it’s not it’s not great. Now, I will say in the Sunday game, of course, we had the penalty on Bobby Brink. That really wasn’t a penalty. Uh Brian Buché on the broadcast was 100% correct. It was a tow pick uh out there and it was a bad call and the Flyers had to go on the PK in the overtime which is never a good thing. So expectations were a little bit lower for getting shots on goal although they did have that you know short-handed attempt there that Sanheim almost had. But I I do think you know you do have to give them some credit because that kill was Oh yeah, right. A really good kill. But I I do think that the overtime is something that they’re going to have to consider if the pattern holds and the Flyers continue to go to extra time as frequently as they do fairly or unfairly. If it goes to the shootout, like it just increases the pressure on Trevor Zagris. Like he’s the one who’s got all the pressure on him now because he’s like Mr. Shootout and he might be feeling some of that. Yeah, I I think he is because I feel like, you know, Travis Kenkne, as we know, always feels the weight of the world on his shoulders. And man, that feed to the to Ziggress for the goal on on Sunday was phenomenal. Like, you know, I I think he had, you know, a good game for him over over the weekend. I think that he feels that, but I think with Zegris there, it’s this shared responsibility and especially because they’re on the same line. I think the two of them have taken this on and it’s created some incredible offensive moments. I think that that kind of attitude and that kind of creativity has to start bleeding down to some of the other lines. It does. I mean, you don’t want to just be a oneline team. Uh, you know, there’s some calls out there to break up like Couturier and Mitchkov that line. I maybe I mean and do what? I don’t know. Like I don’t I haven’t really thought it through. Like that’s why I just said maybe. I don’t really know if I have a, you know, an answer for that. But yeah, they do need more secondary scoring. That’s obvious. The fourth line without, you know, without Deloreier is definitely better. Like Brunstrom is definitely a better fill in. We talked about that a long time ago. And and you could see just his skating is is better. You get a little bit more offense. Abballs now is a little more activated than he was before because he wasn’t the only offensive guy out there. It’d still be I you know, ideally you’d still want to take Barnett Haway off that line. Sorry. I mean, it’s just the way it is, but I don’t feel like they’re going to do it because of the penalty killing aspect. So, I think that’s that’s keeping his job. But, you know, the fourth line’s a little better, but yeah, there there’s a lot of missing in there, you know, and it can’t just be one line, right? Well, we’re going to talk more about this set of games and what to do next and some adjustments as well as Cam York’s return. We’ll do all that coming up next. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on the other sites. Indeed sponsor job post put posts your post at the top of the page and helps you reach the right candidates faster. 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We will have our Phantoms Tuesday report on tomorrow’s show. Uh mixed bag over this past weekend, only a couple of games, but we had some new guys uh enter the lineup. So, we’re going to talk about them as well as preview the game against Montreal. Plus, we’re going to answer your mailbag questions on the Wednesday show. So, make sure to get those in. You can email us at lockdownflyers@gmail, send us a message on any of our socials or comment over on YouTube. And of course, if you are in our everyday club, post a question to the Discord. We will prioritize those questions. So Russ, I I think the other thing here that we started talking about in these games is kind of the the middle six dead zone here that we’ve been dealing with that even like the Kates line. I mean Bobby Brink has been active sometimes. He’s had a little bit of scoring. You know, Kates was going to level off like it didn’t mean doesn’t mean his play isn’t any good. It just means his offense was always going to level off, right? And I I think I I do understand where Rick Tocket is coming from in terms of trying to balance out consistency with effectiveness. And that’s hard to do. I I I get that. You know, you don’t want to break up a line just for the sake of breaking up the line uh because you want to be able to build chemistry. and he did make some changes fairly recently obviously with the Tyson Forester injury necessitating some of those changes. So he probably doesn’t want to upset that apple cart too much. Uh but we do know Forester is going to be out a while. So he’s going to have to find a more, you know, middleterm solution here for this middle six. Yeah. I mean, again, I do think leveling it out, evening out minutes on on the um forwards and the defense matters. I think it goes back to the Vegas series, you know, it goes back to Mark Stone telling me, “Hey, they roll four lines. It matters.” Sometimes you don’t get the best out of all, you know, your fourth line when you roll it. But what you’re doing is you’re saving the other guys. Same with the defensive pairs cuz that changed uh in this second game. It’s almost like, you know, Rick Taco was like, “We have to get this win.” Like he he he wanted this win and he was just like, “You know what? I I’m going to have to shorten the defense pairings here.” And and he did. And what? No. Jules played didn’t even get 10 minutes. And so, you know, Cam New York comes back for one game. He’s he’s over 24 minutes. I think that has an effect on the team. And, you know, I get it. I get what the coach is trying to do, but we’re only at game 31. Yeah, that was of concern to me uh looking at the time on ice for the defenseman because there was a precipitous drop off for that third pairing for sure. Yeah, Jules had just under 10 minutes total and that includes having an overtime. Right. Right. So, it really showed a lot. But Travis Sanheim 31 minutes in this game. That’s too much. So, and then York, as you said, was like just under 25 minutes in this game and the difference mostly being the overtime, right? Because Sanheim was out there primarily, but you know, 35 shifts for Sanheim, 30 for Cam York, 28 for Dale, and then 24 for Sealer uh there. So Emil Andre only had 21 shifts despite him being in the middle pairing so to speak. So that’s what I’m saying. So he’s you know he the way he’s doing that the way he’s sort of delegating that he’s he’s playing a little desperate because I think he he gets reports right and and you know he sees what’s going on and he sees how the math is and and so I feel like he felt like this had to be a win like he didn’t want to get just the one point in each but that’s what he got. Right. So, I I do think the blue line is something we’re going to have to pay more attention to here in terms of those adjustments and the minutes. And Ty Merches played well. Like I I want to reiterate the time that he played, he played well. He really did. Now, he did have that one, you know, unforced error that led to a Carolina goal on Saturday. Uh, but I do think that if you look at the overall play for him, his physicality is something that that they the way they he pins guys against the wall has been really good. Like there’s something that they could use there, but you know, it’s just not going to happen right now. Well, like Zamula is sitting on the bench, right? So, I I’m pretty sure they’re going to end up sending Merchesen back down because now they know like York’s okay. presumably is close now apparently. So like Zamula, they they’re gonna probably have to try and send him down unless they’re just going to keep holding on to him scratching every day, which I don’t think is a good thing either, just to hold on to the asset. I don’t know exactly what they’re going to do with that, but it’s that’s the next thing that’s going to happen here. Right. I I do think it it could be a wakeup call for some guys given how well Tai Marches played because I don’t think people expected that. No, I don’t think so either. I I felt like he was going to hold his own. I think he did better than that. So, he he showed me something, too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we’ve seen his progression, right? We talked about it when he got the call up because we know because we’ve watched all his games in in Lehigh Valley and seen that progression. But to match up physically the way he did, he was poised. Like he was really impressive. Kept it simple. Like sometimes the best thing for someone to do is simple. So he kept his clear simple. Everything he did was pretty simple and and it works for him. Yeah. And and I almost think his second game again, I know he made that mistake, but also you look at the confidence and you think, oh, there’s all sorts of nerves and weird energy in your first game, right? So, you want to see what that second game looks like cuz all of that is worn off and now you’re in the reality of being in the NHL. Right. Right. And I think again, for the most part, he acquitted himself quite well in that game and was not afraid. And so, I’m looking forward to seeing him more. I don’t think we’ll see him again for a little bit. Uh, yeah, I think it’s going to be a while. I mean, even injury might not get him right up because they might hold an extra defenseman now. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. I I agree. Um I think, you know, we talked about Traverse Egress and Travis Kknne uh being a huge part of this team. We we talked a little bit about Mitchoff and, you know, when he wasn’t used, but uh when he was used out there, I’m I’m struggling to figure out if it’s entirely him or it’s the line and if there’s something some disconnect there that the communication isn’t working. I think it’s the combination. Like, he did get a point in the second game, but I think it’s a combination. I I haven’t seen him play badly. I I wouldn’t look at him and say, “Oh, no. He’s just invisible at other than the penalties. That’s the only thing that that’s bugging me about honestly.” But again, that’s young players. That happens a lot. That’s just a part and parcel of that. So, yeah, I mean, that’s there’s still that for sure. But, yeah, I think it’s it it could be worthy of putting him on a different line. You know, again, we talked about it. play him, you know, more power play minutes, play more and what he’s good at could help. Uh, but they’re trying to, you know, round out his game like, you know, I’ll just go with it. There’s nothing else, there’s nothing else to be said about it. All I do is see his points dropping, but I’ll, you know, maybe it’ll rebound second half of the year like it did, you know, uh, in the last throws of tors. Maybe something will kick in. Who knows? Yeah. I would also be remiss if I didn’t um shout out the goalending because both of them played tremendously. I think unfortunately Busy just was standing on his head in a ridiculous way on Sunday. He’s on good too. Yeah, he was. He’s He’s just Busy’s just on a roll. Like we talked about him when we did the previews. We expected him to play at home. He did. You know, he gave us gave what we expected like. So, yeah. I mean, that’s going to happen. But again, a more aggressive overtime maybe could have changed things because you have that space in overtime and the space really isn’t supposed to be there so you could get to the shootout and stall it. Space is supposed to be so you could attack offensively. Yeah. Well, I I do think that uh again, we do owe Samson and Dan Ladar extra stick tap for their work this weekend. And I think it’s tough. It’s not their fault. And I I think that both of them like they’re evening out a little bit, I would say, in terms of of their play. And and I think in a good way, right? And and it’s good to have two good goalenders. Sometimes you can’t figure out hockey. They’re getting better goalending, check. They’re getting better defense than last year, check. But they’re getting a lot less offense. They’ve got Trevor Ziggress doing magic out there, check. Right. And it’s just and sometimes it’s just this is hockey like things puck luck things change like it it you know we talked about it all you know a lot of those teams in the metro are better. They’re just you know they they’ve gotten better and that’s made things harder. Yeah. So like I said you know some frustration but a lot of good coming out of this team and uh looking forward to the next set of games. In the meantime, there was a huge trade and a couple of medium trades with Edmonton. We’re going to get into that. Plus, name our nemesis of the week coming up next. NFL Sundays move fast. One big play and suddenly everything feels different. 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All right, so Quinn Hughes is a Minnesota Wild already got on the board as a member of that team. the fans there are very excited and you know there had been sort of rumblings like oh the Flyers should be in on Quinn Hughes and you see the return that Vancouver got and you’re like nope Flyers could not have had that effectively potentially it’s only for a year and a half so the timing isn’t good they didn’t have the Flyers didn’t have exactly what Vancouver wanted a center who was ready none of their centers that they would want who are young are So, a lot of things didn’t match up. So, that’s the way it goes. I, you know, again, this is one of those things where I keep saying you have to draft these kinds of guys. You once in a while they go on the market and you’re bidding against a lot of other teams and you see what what happens now. So, the same thing happens for top centers. the same thing, you know, for number one defenseman like this is and essentially, you know, and maybe we’ll chat about this in a few minutes, but the, you know, the Canucks got a number one defenseman, too. So, they did and he’s already gotten on the board for the Canucks, so you know, so I’ll get around to that. But the point is, yeah, I think Marco Rossi is probably the only one who’s not happy in the grand scheme of things here. Maybe, but his contract will eventually run out. So, but he’s he’s already gotten on board. You know, the big thing is, and now I see people’s attention gets turned to, well, the Sabres aren’t doing well. What about Rasmus Darling? Well, I’ve asked about that, and it doesn’t seem like anything’s happening with that anytime soon. So, these are all hopes and prayers. But in the meantime, while there’s hopes and prayers, you’ve got to you’ve got to draft and and and get their next one of those those kinds of guys. And that’s an area that they haven’t been able to do. Yeah. And I think the Sabres are kind of in paralysis mode right now. I just I just don’t think they know what to do. They aren’t not for the immediate time being. Correct. You know, may take a month or so before they start thinking about any of this. Yeah. I mean, Byron will go away before Delene does. So, I think so. I think so. Edmonton also tried to fix their goalending problem. So, Tristan Garrett is no longer in the Metro Division. I don’t know. Yeah, but he did well there and you know, he played junior hockey there. Could he have a resurgence? Maybe. Maybe. Um I’m excited to have Skinner on the pens though. I’ll tell you that he won’t be there long. I think he’s going to get flipped. No, I think so, too. I think he’ll get flipped at deadline. That is for sure. But yeah, uh some changes uh around the NHL with some big trades at odd times. Always interesting to see. That brings us to our nemesis of the week. Last week I talked about the impending back-to-back against Carolina. We see how that went for the Flyers. Uh some good and some bad there. You talked about this combo foreigner Leonard Skard tour that have no original band members in either act there and was that a fraudulent tour? Uh just a tribute essentially. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. But um I think for me the nemesis this week is, you know, not getting too hard on the Flyers given some extra time results that we’ve seen in the last few games, right? Because like we talked about, there are some very good things coming out of this team. you see the L and you want to get upset about it, but you if you really look at the details, there are some things going on there that you want to see them fix like the possession metrics, you know, puck protection, puck support. You want to see special teams get better, but you see the nuggets of the good changes that have happened and you have to feel good about this team for the most part moving forward that there is a pathway here for this team. and you see some of the prospects coming down the pike. I I think it’s just this is that lynchpin year and we got to see how it plays out here. Sure. No, I I agree. Um my nemesis going to be if I get asked again, maybe after today I won’t, but if I get asked again, how good is Yean really? Uh he’s really good people. like getting past the fact that the Flyers should have drafted him and getting past the fact that draft experts were surprised the Flyers didn’t draft him just in general when he got traded like to kind of like ask me this as if well come on was this really a good return for a great return like you said for Vancouver. Yes, it’s a great return. great return set a record for Vancouver today with his goal and an assist for the first time they ever required a defenseman to get two points like that in his first game or even in the first period. So obviously he’s going to have a big impact. I think most know that some were kind of maybe wondering uh because they saw he was minus nine this year. But, you know, I pointed out he would be the Flyers top scoring defenseman this year, even though he’s 20 and his game is not complete, but there’s a lot there. So, yeah, please don’t ask me about G. Boom anymore. You’ll see for yourself. Yeah. And I’m not suggesting in any way that he is as good as Quinn Hughes because he’s not. And and they’re different kinds of defenseman, so like comparing them is a difficult thing to do. Plus, obviously, there were other players in the deal, and Marco Rossi is nothing to sneeze at. A really good player. Yeah. Yeah. But that being said, I do think in a year or two when Zoo is ostensibly starting to hit his stride, he’s going to be an elite level defenseman in the NHL. And so I do think it’s a good return for Vancouver because he’s gonna hit his stride when Vancouver is gonna be in a much better position than they are now. Theoretically, I mean, it’s never I know on that. You have to put a big asterisk next to it because you never know. I can’t tell you what they’re going to do. No way. You never can. You never can. They could do nothing or they could do just some horrific things and make some signings that are drafting the way they’re drafting. Yeah. Yeah, I know. But uh that sometimes having Vancouver around makes me feel better as a Flyers supporter. Honestly. Honestly, you got to have those teams around to make you feel better about yourself. All right, that will do it for today’s show. Thanks so much for listening. Uh, like I said, tomorrow we’re going to talk Flyers versus Habs and check in with the Lehigh Valley Phantoms. As a reminder, we always want to hear from you. Send in those mailbag questions or Flyers thoughts to any of our socials at lockdownflyers. You can email us at lockdownflyers@gmail or comment on our YouTube channel. Did Locked Flyers make your Spotify wrapped? Prove it on social media to secure a free month of our brand new Everyday Club. Just tag our national locked on podcast network account on any social platform. We’ll drop you a code. Be one of the first to join the Everyday Club to get Locked on Flyers ad free with exclusive access to our membersonly Discord channel. I am Rachel. I’m on Blue Sky and Twitter Miriam. That’s RmI. I’m Russology on the same socials. S P O R Ts O L O GI. Have a great day everyone.
On today’s show, Russ & Rachel compare and contrast the two Philadelphia Flyers shootout losses to the Carolina Hurricanes. What’s going on with the Flyers puck possession and overtime play? Plus pressure on Trevor Zegras, Matvei Michkov, Cam York’s return, blue line ice time, and the middle six offense. Plus a Quinn Hughes deal analysis and our Nemesis of the Week!
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2 comments
You guys should watch the game closer.
Michkov most certainly was in the shootout!
Why wasn't Michkov used in the shoot out