Will Minnesota Twins owners follow through on fixing their perception?

Will Minnesota Twins owners follow through on fixing their perception?

It’s the Score North Twin Show. Baseball. All right. Score North Twin Show. We have thoughts. We have thoughts. I went to the press conference yesterday at Target Field to meet Tom Pollad and meet the ownership transition here. Uh he went for like 40 minutes. So, plenty of things to talk about. Mackie Jud Dex here. Hit the like button. subscribe button on the Score Twin Show. It’s going to be a choose your own adventure because there’s plenty of tentacles to jump into uh from what Tom Pled had to say yesterday. But Jud, before we do that, MSP plumbing and heating, making sure your home is nice and comfortable for the winter. >> They absolutely do. In fact, I got a story story time from Sports Dad because a couple of years ago, I had this problem. It was this time of year and guess whose furnace went out? That’s right. It was mine and it sucked. It was cold. I was freezing. It was a Saturday and I thought to myself, who am I going to call? What am I going to do? And then it struck me. MSP Plumbing, Heating, and Air to the Rescue at my house in a jiffy. Took care of things. They do fantastic work. Uh kind, courteous. I let them in my house. I don’t let anyone in my house. They are that good. And they want to help you, too. So, if you are having any problems with your furnace, your plumbing, any of those things at all, give them a call. And they are also your local Carrier dealer. carrier and MSPRE winning combination keystone combination 651-6154292 or visit their website callms msp.com callms msp.com All right fellas where would you like to start there there was things on fan perception there was things on the difficulty uh in the family with this decision the payroll uh does anyone want to start in any place in particular here or should I should I just guide this on an adventure here for the next 30 minutes to to figure out where we want to talk about. >> I’d love to start with what’s going on here. Like like I think cuz cuz like we all expected at some point that the that you know we would find out well I guess we we became a little bit pessimistic but that we would find out that there’s oh the minority groups right and the twins announced on Tuesday into Wednesday there would be a press conference. Okay, cool. We’re going to find out finally. And then they dropped a family bomb. I’d like to start there. Like they literally admitted too that Joe Polad kicking and screaming, dragged out of target field and thrown in a car and driven away and now we’ve got Tom Poland. So I would like to start off with the uh with the seeming um they almost basically were like, “Well, here are our new partners, but we have a new person in charge.” I think that’s the most interesting thing of this entire thing is is Phil and Dex what they’re doing here. >> I mean, and Dex, you were there and Jud and I were able to to listen to the to the audio like 30 or 40 minute kind of sit down and it Yeah, there’s so many I think there’s like five or six big paths or takeaways off of this Tom Pad press conference, >> but the number one thing is they Joe did not want to give up control of the organization. So, so the Pled family has owned the twins for four plus decades and it was Carl for a long time. Then Jim took over for Carl in Carl’s later years and then was like five years ago, whenever it was four or five years ago, Joe took over as the third generation front-facing pole ad. >> Yep. And it’s been outside of a nice peak in 2023, it’s been a disaster, especially since then with public communication, the perception of fans of looking at the family, the wins and losses on the field, the revenue, like the whole thing from a business PR and baseball standpoint have taken a nose dive the last two years. And when the family decided, so I think the initial response by the family was, let’s sell the team, we’re good on this. We don’t need I’m speculating a little bit here, a little educated speculation. Why are we taking why is our family name taking all of these hits when we are third now, fourth generation, if you want to talk about the kids, you know, the next generation down, let’s just sell the team and get a couple billion dollars for. Well, the market wasn’t there. So then they had to figure out, all right, what’s our path forward? I guess we’re going to keep the team, bring in some minority investors, but that doesn’t change the public perception of the family. It doesn’t put more wins on the board for the baseball team. So, we need something perception-wise and tangibly cuz Tom said yesterday, I’m going to be a a fairly hands-on owner. I don’t know exactly what that’s going to mean, >> but he said based on where we’re at, it passive ownership is not something that is going to fly here. >> Um, now from a fan perspective, I don’t I don’t think fans are going to be like, “Oh, okay. Tom Polad is now here to save the day. Where’s my season ticket rep? How do I how do I get my foot back in the door here?” But yeah, I’m with Jud. It was I mean, he talked about how difficult this has been on the F. Pretty candid saying this is really difficult for the family. M >> and quite frankly I’m quoting Tom difficult on on my relationship with my brother. >> Yeah. >> So and and the way he framed it was Joe was not on board with this decision at first. Direct quote. >> Mhm. >> He is on board now and he understands. And so the so clearly like a group from the either the board or the family or other people that are high up in the trust tree said, “Hey man, like you’re still part of a family that’s going to cash out on this whenever we do decide to put the team back on the market.” But for this to go back in the right direction, it’s too far gone with Joe as the front-facing pole ad. So they’re we’re we’re trying another pole ad here uh as the front-facing and I have a bunch of other takes, but that was a that was kind of a wow part of the announcement yesterday. Yeah, it was weird too that and I I understood from a brother to a brother um relationship there as someone who also speaking as someone who has a brother but when he also Tom pointed out that you guys have been difficult to work I mean that was a direct quote too >> you guys have been hard on Joe >> hard on Joe which yes we have and he wanted to echo the fact that you know he’s a great human being let let me let I guess let me be the one to also say I don’t think we’ve ever questioned the like the human morale of Joe Polad. I >> some I think some people do question >> some people probably have some Twins fans have. I guess Twins fans have. So when I say let me I mean as in myself and maybe I’ll speak for you two too and as someone who worked for him. Yeah. I never thought he was a bad human being. I never thought that. >> Never never have thought that. Um and the emotion that was poured apparently into the town hall that was addressed to the other employees of the twins. Um, yeah, I bet that was that’s an incredibly difficult thing to do to walk away from that from something that you wanted to do. But I found that interesting. So on the fan perception thing because he wants to mend that relationship. I I don’t think it’s mendable as like flipping on a light switch and just saying now it’s fixed. I think it takes winning. I think it takes showing investment into the team. And I do think it takes being frontal, whether it’s with fans, whether it’s using the media as an arm to that. And I asked Tom directly about that. It’s like, do you want to have more of a public perception, not for your own ego, but just for getting your messages across? And he said, I think it means something to the people that work here in the organization, for the person that’s in my position to be willing to come out and speak. I don’t want to overdo it. I’m not doing it for my own ego or anything like that. I’m doing it because I think it’s in the best interest of the organization and it’s in the best interest of the family. I also think that the fan base wants to feel some kind of connection with ownership and they want to know that ownership cares just as much as they do. And I’m not sure they’ve gotten that sense. I think they’re wrong about it, but I’m not sure they’ve gotten that sense from us. And that’s not unique to Joe. That’s unique to the Polat family as a whole. and as people uh chose to approach this this part of the job or don’t choose approach this part of the job, but if it’s critical and it’s what our employees want right now. So now I and I don’t know like I he he did a whole car wash yesterday. He did us he did TV cameras um afterwards he went on Chad Hartman. I don’t know if he did other radio programs as well, but he wants to be a little bit more frontal. I I do think Joe struggled with that. Joe Joe 100% did not like public speaking. He did not like addressing things and I do think that hurt him. I don’t need him to do same thing like it was very it was a a point of luxury for me cuz he’s like oh we got to sit down with an owner for 40 minutes and he just basically gave a whole town hall which I appreciated. I don’t know if I need that weekly and I don’t even know if I need that monthly but it would be nice I think if the owner who wants to fix that relationship with fans is a little bit more frontal with the team’s intentions. So, here’s my question though to the entire family. And by the way, I mean, Joe was a terrible choice in the first place. Putting Joe in this job was a massive mistake, but in Joe’s defense now, I I don’t think I’ve ever seen a brother backed up o over or underneath a bus as much as took place on yesterday. Like, it was it was basically Joe’s a great human. He’s the bad guy here, though. This is so my takeaway was this. This is a PR play because if you listen to the answers, Tom’s not saying, “Hey, you know what? I I’m in now and we’ve got these these partners in and we are going to start spending.” He was still basically saying, “Right now is not the time to spend. We’re not going to spend.” This is a PR play and and I feel like the public has to be careful here and they will be uh because what I’m hearing is hey we’re going to be a little bit more forthcoming about ourselves and and the problems but it’s not like we’re going to spend. So I am very curious to see what happens here. I I also sense that I also and this is again just a total guess from a takeaway. I I mean Tom’s not a baseball guy. Like Tom literally I don’t think knows much about the team right now, but he’s a businessman. So I also think what they’re doing is I think they’re I think they’re in many ways gonna replace FAV as the business president now. Like that was a just a complete debacle. Like you don’t put someone in charge of both things. So >> unless they are Theo Epstein level, >> right, but then he can run. Yeah, exactly. But then you’re a Hall of Famer. But for them, I I think they realized that that was a huge mistake. So I think Tom’s going to run the business side. It’s it’s clear that this will now be Tom’s job. Like Tom had a job >> that he has left his other >> Yes. his other poll job. So this is going to be his job. But the other thing that I kept wondering you guys in the back of my mind as this press conference went on was >> how much of this also is trying to at the same time as saying, “Hey, we are the new uh um cuddly pole ads. Feel bad for us. We’re there for you. We want to answer your questions.” How much of this also went into this really Declan brought down the amount of questions about the partners being brought in? And I feel like that cut because the partners being brought in aside from >> Craig Leupold buying a small stake and probably helping out just advising them and saying you guys are a PR disaster. >> Trade secrets is one secret. >> Yeah. So, but but I mean I’m I’m sure a trade secret was, hey, you know what, Tommy? Joe Pad shouldn’t be doing this job. But anyway, the point is I think they also tamp down questions, very legitimate questions about the limited partners, the limited partners amount of time that they are going to be invested. And also, if they’re not going to kick in a bunch of cash right now, what are they doing here? Beyond paying off the debt and then saying, “Okay, thank you very much. Now, we want to sell our stakes.” >> Yeah. I can I can I uh interject on the Craig Leopold angle here because I remember when they made the announcement back in August, I think it was, excuse me, that they were keeping the team and and this is on the heels of two train wreck seasons. Uh fans fans lashing out by cancelling season ticket memberships and the lowest attendance in 25 years of Twins baseball. And the only thing fans had to look forward to was like the pullad selling the team and then they sell off at the deadline 40% of their roster. So we were talking in August a low point a probably a quarter century low point of twins baseball business perception everything. And they come out with this announcement saying hey we’re keeping the team. We’re going to bring in some minority investors that we’ll tell you about later. Right. and and I don’t know what they thought was going to happen with that reaction other than more negativity and more people pissed off and cancing season tickets and whatever, but I remember we had a show that week and we talked about if you’re going to make an announcement like that that says we’re keep we know you hate us and we are keeping the team. However, however, one of the minority owners that’s coming in here is someone that you’re really going to like, Joe Mau or whoever it is, and their their voice is going to be part of our organization moving forward. So, while we are keeping the team, we hear you and here’s this person that you like. The the Dodgers did this with Magic Johnson back in the day where it was like, “Hey, Magic Johnson’s here.” and he only owned a small sliver of the team, but he was he became kind of a front-facing figurehead for the organization. And um I was always wondering like why would they not that’s an that is a tactical thing you could take advantage of. Bring in someone that could actually help behind the scenes, but that you could put out there and say, “Hey, hey, we’re bad at this public speaking stuff, but here’s a person.” And so when it was announced that Craig Leupold was joining as a minority investor, my first thought was they bungled this They could and maybe some of it was up to Craig. Maybe Craig wanted to be kind of just silent behind this. He wasn’t at the press conference yesterday. I own the wild and I’m here to like have a little sliver of this when things go the right way from a valuation standpoint. And he’s helping clearly a little bit behind the scenes. Tom mentioned that they’ve been friends. He’s offered up some trade secrets as an owner and helping Tom get up to speed. But I can’t help but wonder. I’m I’m not saying it would have like flipped 10,000 season tickets overnight or would have changed the whole thing, but Craig Liupole largely has a very positive public perception. The Wild have a great brand, really like an impenetrable brand because that team hasn’t come anywhere near winning a Stanley Cup ever, unless you count getting swept 20 plus years ago in the Western Conference Finals. And people love that franchise. They love the brand. They love the team. They love Craig. Craig is sitting there banging his program on his leg watching every game from his suite. And if they were going to bring him in, which they did, even for a small sliver, I would have elevated that up a little more and said, “Hey, >> the the headline isn’t the New York group or this other group that takes distressed uh assets and dresses.” Yeah. But they’re big Twins fans. The head and the headline isn’t even Tom is taking over. It’s another pole ad. Let’s try another pole ad. It’s the 10th Pol we’ve tried, right? To me, the headline could have been, unless and maybe Craig just didn’t want this level of visibility with the Twins. Here is this credible longtime owner of a successful NHL franchise that you all love. He’s coming here to help us. He’s not going to be running the whole thing, but he’s coming here to help us. And I I guess I have questions about why that was it the Twins decision to not make that more front and center? that they think, well, he’s got such a small stake. No, it doesn’t matter. He’s he’s part of it and he is a credible voice in the room among a lot of people that are deemed not credible by the public right now, the ticket buying public. >> I I I am assuming um that a it’s mostly that it’s on Craig that he didn’t want to maybe be part of it. I’m assuming he also of of the New York based group, the local group, Craig’s involvement was third. So like the VA partners and the New York partner like those were one and two and then at some point third Craig started getting involved in as being a a limited partner in advisor. Tom said like he knew of him prior to announcing when they were going to sell but like didn’t have a great rel didn’t like have a close relationship just because they didn’t know each other that well and then over the last 14 months they have developed like a friendship the trade secrets thing but I I agree whether that whether whether this happened you know in August uh or whatever it was decided that Craig is going to get involved here I do think there was probably an opportunity to say hey here’s a guy here’s a guy that has a has a great job with getting fans energized, empowers general managers to make splashy moves. I mean, Bill Garren’s obviously he made the big one for Hughes last week, but also like this franchise is littered with examples of going for it and making big-time splashy decisions. So, I do think that was a little bit of a bungle, but I also think Craig probably also didn’t really want to be front-facing of here’s this guy that can help you uh help our fans fix the perception. Can I throw a couple other things out that’s that struck me from that press conference yesterday? add Tom Pollad to the long list of pollads and people within the organization that are very very good at accurately pointing out all the problems with the problems that a mid-market small market team faces and the challenges and they’re very good at talking about the business challenges and the financial uh you know baseball’s financial wide open no capped system but I feel like the poll spend very little time accurately identifying the solutions over the past like you could even not even last two years but they’re very good at telling you like this is it’s hard for a mid to small market team to compete on the level with the Yankees and the Dodgers etc et and we’ve talked a lot on this show about it’s easier for the Wild to make a splashy move for an expensive player than it is for a mid-to small market team because there’s a cap structure that essentially prevents you from losing $100 million on an NHL team. But this is all like it all kind of crystallized for me listening to Tom talk and I actually thought he held his own pretty well. I mean, he’s kind of being dropped into a really hard to win situation here. >> You know what this is, you guys? And and it it’s not like the incompetent the incompetence on my comparison is not the same, but the transition is this is like when Ziggy Wolf when the Wolves bought the Vikings and Ziggy was always at the mic and he clearly didn’t want to be and didn’t like it and then Mark Wolf comes up and nothing really changes with the team but the messaging is like oh this is way better >> like >> Yeah. It’s a little less clunky. It’s a little more speaker. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But my but I guess my thing is why did it take so long to identify you know Joe’s good at talk or or Joe’s bad at talking Tom’s good at talking. >> Yeah. But beyond like who’s the better one at talking there’s there’s actual things to be done and fixed behind the scenes here. And I think it’s all pretty simple and sometimes they the poll ads complicate it in the way that they have a hard time communicating. And I feel like a lot of media members don’t even do a great job. We just we just bang the table. Not we necessarily, but like they’re cheap. Spend more money. Cheap. Cheap. Right. It’s like here’s what’s happening. The Twins as a business, a brand, and a baseball team have been struggling mightily for sure the last two years in all those categories. You could even argue largely in the last 15 years since Target Field opened after their first good season as a business, as a brand, as a baseball team. Some of those reasons are due to league issues, media uh rights confusion, and uh TV issues that are hard for the Twins to control. How are we going to make money off of our local TV broadcasts at at the same level that like the Yankees make money, right? Uh and because Major League Baseball owners generally don’t spend their own money on payroll, that’s one of the beliefs is like, well, they’re all they’re all just billionaires spending their own money. No, Major League Baseball owners spend within the parameters of the revenue brought in by their team. Sometimes they’ll dip into losses when the timing makes sense. The Twins chose not to two years ago. Uh but a lot of these teams are bringing in two to $300 million more in annual revenue than the Twins. So like that is a fair talking point. In an uncapped wideopen, mostly local revenue sport, it is harder for the for the small and midtier markets to compete on the level of the Yankees, the Red Sox, etc. But a lot of the reasons why the twins have struggled as a business, a brand, and a baseball team are 100% self-inflicted. And those are the things I’m most interested in. When you have all these talented position players either fizzling out completely or plateauing in the prime of their career, there’s five, six, seven example. I mean, Miguel Seno was probably the first example of what happened to that guy. And then now he’s dominating the Dominican Winter League and he’s back. Is he going to the KBO or Japan? Japan. Let’s go. >> One of the two. Yeah. >> Um, but like failing to develop and maximize young players, self-inflicted, talking publicly about right sizing the business days after you won your first playoff series in 20 years and squashing fan excitement. That’s 100% self-inflicted. And I would even argue like beyond that, choosing to pull back the reigns days after you won your first playoff series in 20 years when you had this city captivated, you could have dipped into some more short-term loss for I think I think they’ve probably lost more value on the franchise and money. Tickets being cancelled, TV ratings going down. They probably lost more money off the tail of it by pulling back after 2023 than the short-term savings they thought they were going to get by not, you know, replenishing the $30 million Sunny Gray contract. And so if I’m Tom Pollad, I’m looking over because ultimately at the end of the day, what you’re asking for is in baseball’s current structure, we are going to spend a hundred plus million less on payroll than the team a lot of the teams we’re competing against because that’s the way it is. The Yankees are bringing in $300 million more in revenue, so they’re going to spend more on payroll. We need a head of baseball operations that can win games above and beyond the resources that they are given. Derek Valvey has not done that. Derek Valve could point back and say, “Well, give me why are you scaling my payroll back $50 million?” And that’s a conf that’s a valid question. But the Twins, not just this year, but for 25 years plus, have been asking their head of baseball operations to win games beyond the level of resources that we are going to give you. You’re going to get less to spend than some of the teams you have to compete against. And we still need you to go find a way to win 89, 90, 95 games on a pretty regular basis. Terry Ryan did that for years. Derek Valvey has not. the Brewers, the Guardians, the Rays, the Mariners lately, they can get a little splashy sometimes. >> Yeah, >> there’s a bunch of teams that are that are doing it. Like the Rays, I think, have the fifth most wins of the last 15 years in baseball, spending nothing. So, if you’re going to operate within these parameters, some self-inflicted, some beyond your control, my attention then turns to the head of baseball operations. Hey, bro. Not the best hand to be dealt, but Terry Ryan was dealt the worse hand than you and won a bunch of divisions. What are you doing on the baseball op side to overcome some of these challenges? That’s that’s the biggest question beyond ownership to me. >> And I think from what you just went through, there’s two very separate things because I think the baseball thing like the baseball thing is its own entity issue. And quite frankly, I don’t think Tom is going to have a clue of what he’s watching yet. But the other thing is, and this is where there’s control available, is the is the public relations aspect of the family as a business. I I mean, putting FAV in charge of both was absolutely crazy. Dave St. Peter, look, the twins had problems with Dave, but Dave St. Peter did all of the talking when things weren’t going well. And you might not have liked it, but at least he was there. Joe didn’t want to be there. Joe didn’t talk. So just from a public relations standpoint a year ago, you got Joe hiding like at the Shelton introductory press conference and Declan can confirm this. Joe was in the back of the room and he looked like he wanted to disappear and it’s like dude you’re not even at the dis here like you’re not even up there. And so just from a standpoint of you know what we might not like your answers but what are your answers in 2025? You got two things. You got Joe not talking and when he did talk super uncomfortable. It didn’t assure you at all. And you got Derek Faly double talking which he can sort of do on baseball but on business he’s got no clue. So like he’s literally just blowing sunshine up your backside. And the incompetence that that caused and the incompetence from a business standpoint to me is the biggest thing that the poll ads allowed to get away from them. And and I think that they think that Tom will now help and and you know his press conference at least he talked and at least he sounded he gave he gave answers. I don’t know if they satisfied you but they certainly didn’t seem like he was trying to push you away or ignore you. Um do I believe that the polls as Tom said are in it for the long haul? Absolutely not. I think this thing’s good. I think as soon as the lockout’s done, if there’s any type of cap in place, this sucker is going to be sold and that’s fine. But like the baseball thing to me is a to me, you’re right. I just It’s so sad because my expectation has been dumbed down to this. Can you run the business? Like can you literally not alienate your fans by being so stupid? And then once you do that, yes, let’s get But I mean, as far as like Tom’s going to going to have no I no clue for in 2026 what Dererick is doing. And Phil, you’re right. That’s a whole different topic that’s extremely important. I I disagree a little bit with something you said uh which I I will I will retort with after we take a pizza break here on the SCR twin show. >> Where’s my slice? >> Green Mill pizza. Uh it’s it’s just Oh, it’s just Oh, it’s out of reach. I have to stay in the camera frame here and it’s just over here. >> No, actually that’s fine. You go out of camera and then Dex can talk. I I want my pizza. Give me my pizza. >> We’ll work on it. I’ll have my I’ll have my staff work on here. But uh yeah, Green Mill Pizza, that iconic Green Mill restaurant brand that if if you’ve ever dined at a Green Mill restaurant, you know about that tavern style pizza now available in your kitchen via the grocery store freezer section. They also have soft bread sticks and sauces available to green millfoods.com for some of the most delicious tavern style pizza in your home. Also, Underdog powering these twins takes here today, Dex. >> All right, so it’s Underdog Unwrapped right now. Uh it’s live through the end of the month. Customers get boosts, gimme picks, uh so so many certain uh different things there. There’s things in the NFL. There’s things in UFC MMA. Uh there’s there’s just sitewide bonuses that will be in your lobby each day through the end of the year. So if you haven’t signed up, promo code score. Uh and you can get uh $75 in bonus entries and you play your first $5. go sign up at underdock with promo code score. >> I think real quick just to I everything you said like I agree with but I feel like the importance of there’s the business side and the baseball side. The baseball side drives the business side more than vice versa. Like you have to win. Winning games is the you guys agree winning games is the number one. Like even the Wild, they’ve never won a Stanley Cup or come anywhere close, but they’re always competitive, never embarrassing. The Vikings have really not come close to a Super Bowl since maybe like 2009. Always competitive. They’re always like you always feel like that team has a shot if they’re like one move away, one move away. that the Twins lived in that space from 2001 through 2010 and a couple other times here in the Falv era where they they’ve had like three or four seasons where maybe even more than that where they are in the mix for a playoff spot for sure at the deadline and you and you feel that way. But if you if you slip below that level where they have the last two years, there’s really no one’s going to come in here if you can’t turn this around on the field. No one’s gonna come in here and spike season tickets by 10,000 fans per game. >> Correct. >> Not Tom, not Craig Leopold, not anybody else. That’s why I put more and I maybe it’s unfair to look at Falv above and beyond the ownership group that’s been incompetent, but I’m saying listen, these are this is the hand. These are the parameters. You’re gonna you’re going to get a hundred to $200 million less to spend on payroll right now until baseball or until baseball fixes its financial structure or until the ownership group finds a way to uh generate more revenue without wins on the field or spend more of their >> own money to to field a more competitive baseball team. So like if Valve can’t do it, they need to find somebody else who can. >> Yeah. I was just saying I don’t know. I don’t know that Tom is going to be or or cares if he’s the guy that can. I I sense that he he literally because they they tried to throw him a bone and said, “Hey, you interned at MLB one time and he downplayed that totally. I feel like he is not at all a baseball guy, but the business has been so poorly run.” I’m I’m just saying losing is bad enough. Losing and alienating your fans business-wise makes it worse. And I, you know, by being forthcoming at least, at least it feels like the pole ads aren’t giving us all the middle finger for now. But yes, at the end of the day, you’re a thousand% right. Wins are are what move the needle more than anything else. >> And what one more kind of quote bigger quote for the road here that that stood out was so he talked about the payroll and why he doesn’t think it’s a they’re at a point where they’re going to pour 50 or $60 million back into this team. that that’s where the payroll was at about three years ago. >> Um, and he used the word half measures. Half measures are not good. And you’ll probably get to know me over time. I’m not a half measure guy. I’m a bigger go home guy. But again, how do we thread the needle here? And what’s in the best interest of the fan base? We owe the fan base something. We owe our veteran and star players something. And we owe this organization something. And something that something is hope. And I think that’s the needle we’re trying to thread. Um, so I I don’t know what the half measures and and bigger go home I mean a bigger go home move is sign like I’m not going to say it’s going to happen because it’s not going to happen. Signing Kyle Tucker is big or go home. >> Being half measured like that that is big or go home if like you wanted to do that but they don’t believe that this team and where their business is at is worth investing the $50 million they have basically shred off the payroll from three years ago. And those are two very different things that you just said at the end there. The So, and I’ll ask them to you guys individually. Do you think that this team is a Kyle Tucker away from winning a division? A lot would have to go right. They’d have to find a bullpen. >> Yeah, I was going to say you have to have a bullpen first, but I mean the the AL Central ain’t exactly a juggernaut. But but this is where he might be technically right that you know what based on where this team is and how many games they lost and how many young players you you really need five young players to all kind of click at the same time and stay healthy for Kyle Tucker to be the piece or whoever that would be via trade or for agency. But two years ago they were one player away from maybe winning a World Series or building on something and they chose to scale it back for business reasons. And that’s the other thing he’s talking about when he says we’re not in a place to add 50 or $60 million to this team. There is a valid baseball reason self-inflicted by them the last two years where he’s actually right on that front. But what he’s really saying is revenue-wise, ticket-wise, TV revenue gone, half of our season, half of our ticket revenue from like however many years ago pretty much gone. we would be taking a financial bath by adding $50 to $60 million in payroll. They are choosing to not add that money because they don’t want to lose more in the short term. That’s >> but then here’s the question to go back to 23 when yes you you were spending but fans were engaged and going into 24 extremely engaged and I think Declan said this. How much are you costing yourself by doing this as well? So, like, okay, if you don’t care because because back to Phil’s point, if they don’t win games, like people might not hate the pole ads as much. I mean, that’s a that’s and and that’s like, okay, instead of it being a 10 on the hate, it’s an eight. Um, and and what Kyle Tucker would do, though, is he would engage fans like like fans would be like, “Oh, whoa, you signed Kyle Tucker.” I I felt like Tom very much was trying to go down the path of not much is going to change, but I’m gonna talk more and and you hated Joe because he didn’t talk more. And so I didn’t come away from that saying, “Oh, the Minnesota Twins, this is a new era of Twins baseball.” I came away from that saying, “You, your family’s literally trying to find a spokesperson who people don’t despise because he’s a spokesperson who won’t speak.” >> Yeah. Well, I mean on the like there’s kind of a mathematical side to this where in 2023 they averaged 24,000 fans a game, which was the highest since pre- pandemic 2019. And uh they were down 3,000 fans per game in 2025. And it’s going to be so they were they went from 24,000 to 21,000 probably below 20,000 this year, right? Like people are just bailing on season tickets left and right. Uh, so you could you could probably math out if if we had the average cost per head that walks into a stadium, how much the negative downturn in PR and everything. And to that point, if they had said if they had said two years ago, all right, gosh, we are in a really tough spot with this TV revenue going away. Oh boy. But people love us right now. We could we could eat a little bit more in the short term. keep not saying keep Sunny Gray but like keep that salary slot and perception wise say instead of the first message from ownership being we need to rightsize our business the message saying you know what business is tough right now but this is the time to keep pushing because the fans deserve it really like one little messaging tweak and another $30 million or $40 million in short-term loss for a multi-billion dollar family could have changed the trajectory of the last two or three years, but here we are and now Tom’s taking over. >> Yeah. So, we’ll we’ll have more to talk about on future Twin Show episodes. And and now I’m just dreaming of uh Bucks and Walker Jenkins, Kyle Tucker outfield now. That’s all I’m thinking about. >> Telling I mean even if even if Walker Jenkins can join the party, they’re not they have they got some talent. Like if some of these dudes can join the party, but >> yeah. Uh mercenary Kyle Tucker one-year deal. Let’s do the Korea deal. Let’s do the Korea deal. Opt out. >> That’s not a bad boy. I >> Well, if if he’s still out there, >> the longer he stays out, >> the more chance you’re a twin. Uh, hit the like button, subscribe button here on the Score Twin Show. Appreciate you guys. We’ll be talking at you soon.

Minnesota Twins ownership has changed from one Pohlad to another in Tom Pohlad now running the team; Why the Twins owners want to fix fan perception; Should the Twins have marketed their relationship with Craig Leipold in a better way; Why the Twins decisions are self-reflecting and more on the SKOR North Twins Show.

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