Hard to argue it now…most goals in franchise history…our captain…Mr Franchise…Mr Hockey in Toronto and honestly if he somehow can lead us to a Stanley Cup and we end up winning it all…it will only solidify him as the GOAT 🐐 when it comes to this organization

28 comments

  1. Greatest goal scorer ever and probably the most talented. But, I think of the Clarke/Gilmour/Sundin years more fondly. He needs a few deep playoff runs as C.

  3. Not hard. Sundin. Sittler. Salming. Keon still better as of now.

    I’m not just talking about points either. Matthews is on his way for sure but let’s wait a few years and see what happens

  8. Statistically yes. But I think you will find a lot of people who will argue otherwise for things like attitude, and actual impact (playoff runs).

    For me one of the things that sticks out the most is, since the mid 90s, I’ve never heard a captain blame everyone else so often and take so little responsibility as I have since he’s taken over. Right or wrong, I just can’t put someone who makes comments like, theres too many passengers, as an all time great when his own stats in the playoffs don’t back it up. He could be right, but stuff like that from a true leader stays behind closed doors

    Edit to add: doesn’t mean there isn’t still time to change and to change my mind, but right now he is just outside that group for me.

  12. How many assists does he have compared to sundin,

    Cause ovie has the most goals ever but hes like 2500 assists below gretzky

  14. Nope, very easy to argue. Greatest regular season Leaf maybe, but has done nothing where it counts.

    For context, here’s the official MLSE top 15.

    1. Dave Keon (4)
    2. Syl Apps (3)
    3. Ted Kennedy (5)
    4. Darryl Sittler
    5. Mats Sundin
    6. Tim Horton (4)
    7. Johnny Bower (4)
    8. Borje Salming
    9. Frank Mahovlich (4)
    10. Turk Broda (5)
    11. Charlie Conacher (1)
    12. George Armstrong (4)
    13. Doug Gilmour
    14. Red Kelly (4)
    15. Wendel Clark

    I genuinely don’t know who you push off this list for Matthews. In brackets are the number of Stanley Cups won. Of those who haven’t won cups, Sundin nearly single handedly dragged his team to the conference finals twice, Sittler was the heart and soul of his team during their absolute worst stretch, Salming was a trailblazer and one of the greatest defencemen of all time.

    If you want to swap out Matthews and Gilmour, I’m with you just because one of them is a sex pest. But other than that I’m keeping the list as is.

    Greatness is the quality of being exceptionally superior, influential, or admirable, defined by size, skill, achievement, or character. His character and achievements are seriously lacking. He’s the best goal scorer the Leafs have ever had, and that’s not nothing, but being talented and being great aren’t the same.

  15. Unfortunately might also go down with no playoff success. I hope I’m wrong though.

  16. Here come all the people saying “but playoffs” and the like, as if any other leaf has won anything in the playoffs in 60 years.

    He’s the most talented player to wear the sweater.

  18. I’m thankful we are here to witness a talent like Matthews and his 60 goal seasons and his Hart trophy and all time goals record. Will likely never have such a generational talent on the team in my lifetime. However, 93 playoffs, one win from the finals, Wendel Clark’s grit and tussle with McSorley, Borchevsky’s goal and the emergence of Felix Potvin have more of my heart. Nothing has topped those memories yet for me.

  19. Greatness is subjective. If you go purely by offensive stats then sure, Mathews, Sundin would be the leaders in the modern era.

    My subjective opinion as someone who started watching the Leafs in 1987 as a kid.

    1) Wendel Clark,2) Doug Gilmour

    My old man would tell you Frank Mahovolich.

    I watched Sundin’s entire career, and oh boy if he were on the team now, a lot of the fans on this board would be roasting him every game based on the critiques given to Mathews and Nylander.

  20. I feel like they need to include “In 317 games fewer than Sundin”. Like, the goal record is impressive, but to do it in almost 4 fewer seasons is INSANE. GLOAT

  21. Facts especially if he wins a cup here he’s the undisputed goat nobody has the hardware that Matthews has in this franchise.

  22. Easy to argue for me.

    Win a stanely cup. Dude is one of our biggest liabilities during playoff runs.

  24. Dave Keon is requesting your location.

    Seriously with 1 cup Matty leaps over Sundin, Gilmour, Clarke, and Sittler.

  25. I wouldn’t give him the title of *greatest* leaf until he hoists a cup.

    Until then hes *great* but not our *greatest*

  26. Hard to argue? That’s click bait. Yikes. As Comic Book Guy would say “Worst. Take. Ever.”

  28. Most talented? Best goal scorer? Sure. Hard to argue against.

    Greatest? Pfft. Dude is unlikeable without a single tough bone in his body. Hell I’d even put JT over Matthews in terms of Greatness.

    There’s a reason it’s even debatable when he has the team scoring title. It’s because of the constant no-shows when it matters most. It’s because of the unwillingness to be a leader. Never once have I seen a captain play so poorly and never once say “hey I need to be better. It starts with me.”

    The Yzerman’s, Sakic’s, Modano’s are Greatness.

    AM isn’t anywhere near any of them.

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