Blues fans (and coaches) have a tendency to throw any skill player in a slump under the bus and demand they be gone.
Thomas and Kyrou are by far the two best forwards the Blues have, and they're 26 & 27 years old. Analytics aren't everything, but by GameScore, it isn't even close. Even now when both of them are having down years.
The problem is coaching and deployment, as well as a lack of talent in the rest of the lineup. Kyrou gets <15 minutes TOI/game, plays with the ghost of Brayden Schenn as his center half the time, and barely sees the ice on the PP. Robert Thomas is a playmaker trying to carry plugs who can't bury a shot to save their lives this year, and he plays against the toughest matchups each game because the Blues don't have any other dangerous scoring lines.
How many skill players is this coaching staff and fanbase going to run off because players aren't "gritty" enough? Vince Dunn and Jake Walman weren't enough? Berube refused to play them, so Army moved them and now they're playing great elsewhere while the Blues play Cam Fowler and Tyler Tucker on the left side.
I swear, if it was up to Blues fans, the entire team would be made up of Alexey Toropchenkos and Nathan Walkers. They'd score 0.5 goals/game but at least they'd show some Grit™️ and throw the body around.
It's just ridiculous. I fear Army is going to trade the wrong guys in an attempt to "shake things up" and do even more damage to this team than he already has since 2019.
25 comments
Yup.
I’m pretty sure coaching doesn’t have much to do with Kyrou looking right down a goalie’s yapper and shooting the puck center mass or even wide of the goal.
Kyrous defensive game has been much better than his offensive game this year. Never thought I’d say that
🤡
Well coming from someone who would be categorized as a “”kyrou hater”. My issue isn’t with the skill guys. It’s the fact that Kyrou specifically who is the most gifted scorer we have almost never drives the game. And what I mean by that is, how often is it Kyrou that opens up the scoring or gets us a lead in a close game. When he goes hot he explodes. But he disappears for multiple games at a time on the stat sheet and sometimes by the eye test.
That being said, it would be absolutely bonkers to get rid of both of them, and the math just isn’t mathing if you trade Thomas. It’s our weakest position. The same goes for people wanting to trade Faulk. Who the F do you think is coming thru there in the next calendar year? I get it next year because contractually it makes sense.
That’s my rant, I agree about Walker btw. I love the he works hard. But he shouldn’t be an every day guy. Him and sunny should be getting 50 games a season and on rotation. Also, Dunn wasn’t let go. The blues tried their best to cover him by putting Tarasenko on that available players list. Everyone at the time thought the kraken would go for star power to build the brand. They were wise in selecting Dunn.
When rebuilding, the bad team trades its assets (good current players) to good teams for their assets (future prospects)…. This is how the world works
Small correction, Army didn’t move Dunn… Dunn just wasn’t protected in the expansion draft. Looking at our protected players, there wasn’t really anyone to swap in at the time
Nah blow it all up and build around Torpedo!
Depends on the return.
> Vince Dunn and Jake Walman weren’t enough? Berube refused to play them, so Army moved them
Huh? Dunn played almost every game he was available from the time he came up in 2017 to when he left. We could only protect three D men in the expansion draft, we protected Parayko, Faulk and Krug
NTC there not going anywhere!
Where is Buch sitting in this? Also where did you get these ratings?
Two things can be true – trading Kyrou and Thomas would be a remarkable mistake that would require us to fully tear down and rebuild and they’ve also underperformed.
This season is what it is, we pretty clearly need to sell off some old guys for futures, lose and get a good draft pick, and hope this season was an anomaly.
Part of the issue is that we’re nowhere near good enough to challenge the top teams in the central (much less contend), and our prospect pool is not strong enough that we’ve got the pieces that will make us top contenders in the future.
1. I doubt they’re looking at moving Thomas unless it was a massive “can’t say no” deal.
2. Kyrou is expendable given that he’s a winger and they don’t see him fitting the future going forward. Kyrou can fetch you a good defensive prospect which is something we should consider.
Kyrou, schenn, faulk, and binner should all be looked at to be moved 100%.
Buch while has been shit this season, plays all situations which helps his stock, but would be hard to move atm.
Players like Thomas, snuggy, Dvorsky, Holloway, Broberg, hofer, and neighbours should be the guys to build around. But given the right price, literally no one on our team/ system should be untouchable. There is very very few untouchable players in this league.
As always, depends on the return. I agree with not trading RT, but Kyrou is who he is at this point. What did he do in the playoffs last year? He got hit hard in the first game and was ineffective for the series. He’s not strong on the boards and tends to turn the puck over at the blue line. I don’t think you can make a deep run with him playing top minutes.
It’s not a mistake if the return is good. There is nothing that says becoming a better team in 3 or 5 years requires either of those players. And we are clearly not fewer than 3 years from being a top 3 team in our division. We could be wasting our assets if we don’t consider trading anyone, in my opinion.
I agree they are the most valuable players, but there’s a price for anyone. Those two just happen to have the highest price. I would have to see the return before I got upset.
I’m at the point where I think someone notable NEEDS to go. And I’ll preface all of this by saying i have zero clue what that locker room is like.
This is 4 straight years of underwhelming seasons. The only outlier? The literal franchise record run they went on last year just to TIE for the last wild card spot.
I don’t know what this team is missing, but something has to change. You cannot go into next season with this “core” (whoever you think is in that) and expect a different team.
They haven’t been too injured either. Of all of our big forwards, they’ve played at least 32 games. Thomas is #1 on the team in P/GP and is #74 in the NHL. Neighbours is #2 at #143 in the NHL in P/GP.
That’s simply not good enough. There’s something massively wrong with this team and the worst thing they could do is play just good enough and finish with a draft pick between Picks 6-16.
I don’t care who goes, including Thomas. He’s a damn good center, but his body language sucks ass and as good as he is, he’s not a guy to go out and take over a game. I’m not picking him as the guy to go, but to illustrate I’d listen on just about anybody over 200 NHL games played.
Army won’t trade either of those guys unless he gets a fortune in return, I guarantee it.
I would bet Steen takes a similar position.
Yes, anyone is technically available, but only if the return is lopsided in the Blues favor.
If these guys were that good they would be elevating players around them. Not getting dragged down.
I’m not asking for McDavid levels of ability here, but, so far Thomas and Kyrou are shaping up to be pieces on a Stanley Cup winning team that compliment the top end players and not top end players themselves.
To be clear, I’m not fully on board with trading Thomas and Kyrou because like you said they are still young players in their prime.
What I am fully on board with is trading our older players, Schenn and Faulk, for pieces coming back and ending up with a top three pick in this years draft.
One of the major problems for Kyrou and Thomas is that teams know if they focus on them, they can effectively shut down the Blues offense, especially with Holloway out. They’re good players, but the depth on forward is a black hole after the top line guys. I think teams are perfectly happy letting the Schenns, Toropchenkos, Sunqvuists, Walkers, etc. of the world try to beat them. Guys like Snuggy and Dvo are good but too young to give you winning hockey every night.
You’re trading both Kyrou and Thomas at a loss. A huge loss, considering both are way better players than their numbers suggest. I’m not moved by arguments of body language or vibes seeming to prove they’re bad locker room presences and need to go. If that would fall on anyone, it’s Schenn, who has been unable to whip the team into shape, and Monty, who can’t settle on lines or really build on much. I like all of these players. I like the coaches. I wish it was working. But we’re at the point where we need to be looking at this pragmatically. And pragmatically, it doesn’t make sense to trade Thomas and Kyrou at their current value. They are worth more to the team with their skill set than they would be with their market value.
Trade Faulk. 100%. He’s having his best run of the last three years, and his value has never been higher. Trade Schenn if the deal is decent, and trade Buchnevich if you can find anyone to take the contract. But I hate this trade just to trade mentality. A core is not broken because they’re fundamentally lazy or unmotivated players. The core isn’t working because they lack confidence right now. I’m not saying we don’t need a shakeup, but trading someone at a loss just to get that shakeup is the wrong way to manage a team.
A team full of Walkers would at least be entertaining to watch.
Oi fuckin Oi
I think if you were going to trade Kyrou, it would have been done after his career season. Peak value. This team needs more Kyrous. They need more goal scorers and play makers. The defensive prospects are looking really good. This is year one of two or three shitty years. Happy New Year! It’s part of the process. Unless a team meets the same demands the team has had for Kyrou there’s nothing to discuss.
Fans thinking Thomas and/or Kyrou are immovable is hilarious. One of them should be gone for the right price if the Blues are serious about the much needed retool. Neither have shown themselves capable of leading the new core. Thomas may just be having a bad year but his body language and lack of compete every night is tiresome.
OP tried to make an intelligent post but it mostly comes off as emotional and uninformed. Schenn isn’t as bad as many think he is and who are these plugs Thomas is being forced to carry? Thomas isn’t playing with the fourth liners.