Discussing John Mozeliak’s Biggest Regret & Cardinals Declining Options on Gibson, Lynn & Middleton

Charlie Marlow discusses all things St. Louis Cardinals, MLB & the World Series.

Derrick Goold reports the Cardinals won’t pick up the options for Kyle Gibson, Lance Lynn & Keynan Middleton.

#mlb #stlouiscardinals #worldseries

49 comments

  1. Yeah but the regular fan didn’t even know who Oscar was honestly.. only the serious fans knew… and yes he was good but you can’t just say because we saw flashes that he was the next Albert.. injuries happen slumps happen.. tragedies happen.. so to use that as an excuse is just arrogant imo!

  3. Gray and Helsley to Phillies for Justin Crawford and lower prospects.

    If for some reason Phillies need cash we get Crawford and another top 10 prospect of theirs.

    Why?

    Simple.

    Cardinals aren't trying in 2025

    Helsley ain't staying

    Dewitt doesn't want to oay Gray

  5. They have a legit chance to turn this around after 2025… they will be bad and have a okay pick this year and really good pick next year…
    I’d love to see Helsely and Noot or Donovan go to the Orioles and whatever else for Holiday… add him to the Walker Burleson Gorman Winn Weatherholt 2 young catchers… that gives you legit young guys.. Pallante Mathews Hence Mcgreevy Graceffo and whatever you get in 2025 and 2026 draft

  6. The story to me is he got himself into trouble chasing the big pop bat. Follow the Guardians and Rays model, but be willing to spend about 10-20% more than them.

  7. Helsley gets traded 100% … I dont think Gray gets traded. I dont think he will let them trade him. Contreras maybe … I would be open to swapping Arenado for another bad contract vet on the decline w less years total … Maybe for someone like George Springer. Who still has power and can play CF… opens up 3rd for Gorman.

  10. The Cardinals have great options. Clear out the negativity and overpaid player. Clean up the voices the players have to Wade through. I’m excited about the young players. Sorry. Impossible to listen to Moz.

  12. Rockies are still paying $5 million each of the next 2 years of the Arenado deal so the total contract is $10 million less over the balance of the contract. It's a very movable contract.

  18. Hey Charlie:

    The DH took a lot out of a managers decision making, for better or worse in his game management, which took away from the game and ushered in more boredom.

    Mikolas is too calculable. The league knows exactly what’s coming and where to look for his pitches.

  20. I have been saying this exact thing about Mo’ for years. The fact Mo’ is bringing it up means this had been on his mind as well. Unfortunately, Mozeliak panicked and made a series of acquisitions & signings that has led to what this team is today. The passing of Taveras took the organization by surprise and Mo’ was probably the most affected of the club because in his “grief” there were some terrible decisions made. The biggest miss Max Scherzer who reached out to Waino that winter & Mo’ didn’t even call.

  21. Dude, if losing one player can spiral a perennial playoff team into a rebuild 10 years later is the worst excuse I've ever heard. Other teams lose players all the time. It's a convenient scapegoat blaming it on a dead guy.

  25. My opinion for Mo's downfall was 2018 when he tried to follow Theo Epstein's plan to draft hitters , then get pitching thru free agency . For that to be successful your draft pick better be in the top 5.

  26. No no no no. First off no guarantee OT was going to be an Elite Impact bat. The front office has used that excuse for years. The fact is even if he was going to be an impact bat to build around ownership has to cover that gap off. Perfect reason to justify and support spending on a free agent.

  33. Can we decline the option on Mozaliak for next year. Ozuna was one of the worst moves. I'm glad he realizes that. Paying 60 million to Mikolas for three years and counting on Matz every year, while rushing O'Neill out the door was last in a long line of bad decisions.

  37. The biggest regret this organization should have is Dewitt listening to the BS Mo was spreading and tossing Walt Jocketty to the curb and giving Mo all the power. It's been one long slide into oblivion since then.

  40. As one of your most distant listener, I am really glad to get your feedback again. I don’t know what happened, but I was lazy & YouTube quit feeding me your channel. there is one guy I am definitely not “locked into.” Brenden is good, but he two of you are the feeds I trust the most. YOU ARE THE FIST TO TRULY CANALIZE THE TRUTH: Mo was not a genius! Oscar was a tragedy, and I too thought that was one of the turning points in the things that all organizations have to plan for: the outlying, unexpected loss (could be death of a key piece; it could be you refuse Albert’s demands,etc. When you take weak relational reactions to those unexpected losses, you show you cannot manage at the top level. Corporate America (9look at Nike now) often implodes with the equivalent of a GM change. I think history will do a better job of analyzing what Mo actually accomplished. Some of the successes were due to a genius on-field manager (Tony, combined with Duncan); something Mo downplays as a data-driven geek. Again, I taught business strategy, so I know data is critical. But true genius still likes in the human-brain interpretation of that data and the strategies developed from all sources: data, insight, and truly human genius. Mo did not win his bets to rely on his strategy over baseball genius.

  41. As one of your most distant listener, I am really glad to get your feedback again. I don’t know what happened, but I was lazy & YouTube quit feeding me your channel. there is one guy I am definitely not “locked into.” Brenden is good, but he two of you are the feeds I trust the most. YOU ARE THE FIST TO TRULY CANALIZE THE TRUTH: Mo was not a genius! Oscar was a tragedy, and I too thought that was one of the turning points in the things that all organizations have to plan for: the outlying, unexpected loss (could be death of a key piece; it could be you refuse Albert’s demands,etc. When you take weak relational reactions to those unexpected losses, you show you cannot manage at the top level. Corporate America (9look at Nike now) often implodes with the equivalent of a GM change. I think history will do a better job of analyzing what Mo actually accomplished. Some of the successes were due to a genius on-field manager (Tony, combined with Duncan); something Mo downplays as a data-driven geek. Again, I taught business strategy, so I know data is critical. But true genius still likes in the human-brain interpretation of that data and the strategies developed from all sources: data, insight, and truly human genius. Mo did not win his bets to rely on his strategy over baseball genius.As to your question: Doesn’t Mo sound like an apologist, whether that is a student or one os us. “It wasn’t my fault. 😂 Great thinkers (the greatest, Branch Rickey) asses those issues and come up with a genius strategy. Mo tried. His approach was also appealing to an owner not among the “super-rich (a reality). You just cannot undo the decisions that have, in hindsight, yes, proved to be close to disastrous. I do not think a guy form Mo’s background is player evaluation; it was his role to put people in the organization who could identify and develop talent. He did not. Branch Ricky developed genius (the farm system, etc.) solutions to find and develop talent. Even before he moved to Brooklyn Dodgers (Ames’s of a franchise until he got there), he had developed the Cardinals that would rule the National league until just around 1946. After his thinking was gone and after 1946, the Cards would be mediocre or worse until the 1964 World Series victory. They also won in 1968 and should have won in 1969. Change again: 1970s a lost decade. Etc. It happens. Each time the TRUE genius was gone (Whitey had the good graces of Busch to really be field manager and, in truth, GM. In each area a St. Louis team has excelled there has been true genius. I did not see this in Mo.

  42. As one of your most distant listener, I am really glad to get your feedback again. I don’t know what happened, but I was lazy & YouTube quit feeding me your channel. there is one guy I am definitely not “locked into.” Brenden is good, but he two of you are the feeds I trust the most. YOU ARE THE FIST TO TRULY CANALIZE THE TRUTH: Mo was not a genius! Oscar was a tragedy, and I too thought that was one of the turning points in the things that all organizations have to plan for: the outlying, unexpected loss (could be death of a key piece; it could be you refuse Albert’s demands,etc. When you take weak relational reactions to those unexpected losses, you show you cannot manage at the top level. Corporate America (9look at Nike now) often implodes with the equivalent of a GM change. I think history will do a better job of analyzing what Mo actually accomplished. Some of the successes were due to a genius on-field manager (Tony, combined with Duncan); something Mo downplays as a data-driven geek. Again, I taught business strategy, so I know data is critical. But true genius still likes in the human-brain interpretation of that data and the strategies developed from all sources: data, insight, and truly human genius. Mo did not win his bets to rely on his strategy over baseball genius.As to your question: Doesn’t Mo sound like an apologist, whether that is a student or one os us. “It wasn’t my fault. 😂 Great thinkers (the greatest, Branch Rickey) asses those issues and come up with a genius strategy. Mo tried. His approach was also appealing to an owner not among the “super-rich (a reality). You just cannot undo the decisions that have, in hindsight, yes, proved to be close to disastrous. I do not think a guy form Mo’s background is player evaluation; it was his role to put people in the organization who could identify and develop talent. He did not. Branch Ricky developed genius (the farm system, etc.) solutions to find and develop talent. Even before he moved to Brooklyn Dodgers (Ames’s of a franchise until he got there), he had developed the Cardinals that would rule the National league until just around 1946. After his thinking was gone and after 1946, the Cards would be mediocre or worse until the 1964 World Series victory. They also won in 1968 and should have won in 1969. Change again: 1970s a lost decade. Etc. It happens. Each time the TRUE genius was gone (Whitey had the good graces of Busch to really be field manager and, in truth, GM. In each area a St. Louis team has excelled there has been true genius. I did not see this in Mo. I wasted my breath, because I just heard you basically say the sam thing. He just struck out in making the right moves. 🙂

  43. The thing I don’t understand about all this was the drastic pivot away from drafting and developing in-house in favor of building around free agents.

    If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it isn’t a cliche for nothing.

  45. I've thought about OT forever. I'm glad Mo acknowledged that. Heyward. Ozuna. FOWLER. Craig never recovers. MM keeps playing him. OT was absolutely electric. They trade Craig and Kelly for Lester. Good shakeup. MM was a terrible move that cost us. But OT's tragedy impacted us. Fowler was awful, good guy or not. They play the contract. It all compounds together. Still looking for an impact bat, we rid ourselves of pitching. On and on. I'm glad to hear this mentioned. I saw OT in Memphis. Just watch his first homer and playoff homer. Electric. We fans definitely are homers when it comes to prospects (Lindeman, anybody?), but I would have loved to have seen OT continue. Thanks for bringing this up. When OT died, that probably brought up Kile for MM. Lots of impacts.

  47. The biggest problem with the 2023 And 2024 team has been Oli Marmol. The man has absolutely sucked as manager . He made so many bad moves that I lost count of them . Here is my take , Oli lost at least 10 games on bad management, Goldschmidts down year lost another 5 and Arenado’s down year cost us at least 5 wins , maybe more . This team does not need a rebuild , it needs new management and Mo needs to go. . The cardinals could have very easily won 105 games in 2024 with jus a slight tweak.

  48. Mo is a joke. NO , a tragedy 10 years ago should have no bearing on a team hiring a wanna be manager like Oli and putting up with Mo as long as they did. Mo and Oli absolutely suck !! Oli is worse manager in the majors , at the best he belongs in pre school management!

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