Button Makes Case for Sharks To Pick Martone

Button Makes Case for Sharks To Pick Martone

Welcome to the San Jose Hockey Now podcast. I’m Shank Pang, editor-inchief of San Jose Hockey Now. You can also find my work on NBC Sharks on Twitter at Shang_pang and Blue Sky Shang Pang. And I’m Keow. You can find me on Twitter at half_hockey at my website half-wall hockey.com or at San Jose Hockey. Now, this week it’s a big episode. We’ve got a huge guest to talk about um or talk with. But before that, Shang is going to talk to or talk to you all about our very uh first title sponsor. Yeah, bring hockey back. Bring hockey back.net. I’m actually wearing one of their shirts. Thank you, Sam, for sending it to me. Let me rise up. The director of vibes. Mine is in the mail, so I am I am jealous. Supposedly, mine’s in the mail. Hopefully, it’s Yeah, director of vibes. You can go to bringhockeyback.net to get your director of vibes t-shirt or they have also have a special Mlin celebrini t-shirt and coupon code San Jose hockey now for 15% off. So go to bringhockeyback.net for your Mlin t-shirt or your director of vibes t-shirt and get 15% off with the san hockey now coupon code. And also war at bringhockeyback.net you can also get custom jerseys. So they also make jerseys, hockey jerseys uh for any order uh for any occasion and that’s a big part of what they do and they do great work there too. So definitely if you’re an adult league or you just want a fun gift to get somebody, go to bring hockey back for your hockey jersey. So again, bringhockeyback.net. Love it. Um I will be wearing mine next week uh hopefully. Um, the big guest that you guys could probably see by the title of the video beneath us is Craig Button, who uh is joining us again for the second time. He joined us last year after we won the draft lottery, and he’s joining us again after we technically the Sharks did not win a draft lottery. Sorry, good point. Let’s not confuse people any more of that. We won in the end. We won in in a uh realistic sense rather than a I guess in a figurative sense rather than a realistic sense. Anyway, this year also didn’t win. We actually uh moved down a slot and Craig Putton’s going to talk to us all about Yes, we lost all all about a um surprise option at number two for for Craig. So, that’s the teaser I’ll give. Okay. Now, it’s a great interview. We talked Craig about other things, too. He goes hard for Sam Dickinson. Oh, yeah. We also talk about what can happen with a number one pick. We go back in history a little bit for it too. Craig of course was director player personnel for the Stars. Won a Stanley Cup with them 1999 and was the GM of the Calgary Flames I think 2000 to 2002. So lot of experience there. Great talking with him. He is an always excellent guest and has um yeah excellent insight into Sam Jose Dickinson and his NHL future. So stay tuned. Awesome interview. Uh well worth the uh 45 minutes or so that uh Craig gave us. So we don’t have too much this week in terms of our intro between you and I. Um but I guess we should start with some big news that according to the Mercury News, the Sharks announced um that they are working on staying in the SCP Center until 2050. or close to an agreement is the way that is phrased on San Jose hockey now which is kind of a not a change but there was when we had Jonathan Becker on um some questions there was a little bit of a controversy around this subject well when we talked to Jonathan there wasn’t really a controversy I think people mistook what he said but that was a year ago and even a year ago he sounded pretty positive that they were going to come to an agreement that agreement with SAP center is not owned by the sharks it’s owned by the city of San Jose. And that agreement expires on July 1st, 2025. And what Becker said to us last year was that even if they couldn’t figure out something was at SAP Center, that the Sharks were going to stay in the Bay Area in San Jose, that that was their plan. That was their number one goal. And people kind of mistook that. I put that out there. And people mistook it as, oh, they’re they emphasize the leaving SAP Center part. And what does that mean? Are they going to leave leave the Bay Area? even though I was very clear in saying no, they are saying they’re staying in the Bay Area no matter what. But that’s how I saw it. But anyway, in terms of the announcement though that that’s more than just talking about it, they are close. That’s that’s what the announcement yesterday that the city of San Jose made at a it was a city event near the arena [Music] and 2050 25 years. That’s the that’s that’s that’s that looks like that’s going to be the framework of the agreement. Um, couple details with it. Uh, Mayor Matt Mayan, San Jose Mayor Matt Mayan said that the city would make significant improvements in the arena. And so I see a lot of people online saying, “Oh, wow. SAP Center is so old. By the end of this, it’s going to be as old as Madison Square Garden now.” But Madison Square Garden is an example of if you guys have been of a building that was built in I think ‘ 62, but they made so many renovations in it that you doesn’t feel like that at all. And so we’ll see. We don’t know the details of the renovations. So let’s kind of reserve judgment. But the renovations are what they what if they if they’re anything like like MSG then SAP center is going to feel totally different and it won’t feel like a 30 40 50 year old arena. these the the the structure of the building is is fine, right? We can all agree on that part of it, right? So, if you can build if you can work around it, then you can make it look look nice and it kind of fits with with everything that I’ve told you about Hassel before too that I’ve heard that he is he’s from Europe and in Europe they don’t change buildings every 10 years, every 20 years. They stay in the same building and they just work they just renovate it inside. They renovate on the outside. And so yes, SAP SAP7 right now does feel dated. Not because of the age, but just design touches the inside, but if they invest more in it that it can catch up pretty quickly, I think. I think so. That’s the plan. We’ll we’ll see on that part of it. But anyway, so this agreement isn’t finalized. It looks like it’s going to go to a city council vote next month or maybe later in the summer is what what I’ve heard. But either way, it sounds like it should it should it it should go through. And then that’s when we find out the details like do the Sharks have any outs in this deal? We don’t know. Uh how significant will the improvements be? Will the Sharks share in the cost of the improvements? hostel platner or whoever owns the sharks will they share in the cost and improvements and just how extensive will these improvements be? It is a fair question that everyone’s wondering about. But one thing kind of like you said I think the jump to conclusions Matt that is out there is it’s old arena. It’s so the the building is old so it it can’t it can’t be nice inside. Oh, the Sharks are going to be playing this outdated place. And if you invest in a a old established, you know, strong building, if the foundation is good and you invest around it, then you can modernize SAP Center pretty quickly. I haven’t been there in year and a half. Um I, you know, live on the other side of the coast or the other side of the United States, so it’s it’s tough for me. But when I did go, honestly, like I I don’t I didn’t seem like it was that bad. And I know that that’s um I don’t know, maybe people think that it does need some renovations, but I had a great time. And I think like it’s it had been a long time since I had been there before that. So, um it didn’t feel too too outdated even now. So, I mean, I’m sure there are outdated parts that I don’t, you know, see and you know, a lot of fans can I’m sure I have many complaints, but I found it to be actually pretty nice overall. And the food was amazing comparatively to other arenas that I’ve been to. So that was just my opinion like like MSG and TD Garden and stuff like the food at San Jose was like there’s just like so many options like just there’s like just way more options than your normal like uh strangely cut uh pizza that you get at a TD Garden which is like they do a pretty good job of that I think last Yeah, maybe last few years, right? Like more local places, local San Jose places. I I’ve noticed that. Yeah, you went uh two years ago, right? Yeah, I think I went October of 23. So about a year and a half ago. Yeah. Yeah. Sadly can don’t make it out there very frequently. Uh despite being a very diehard fan of this team. Um but yeah, it’s been a while, but I’ll have to see after they get some renovations. I’d love to see. So yeah, it probably just needs like I think a lot of it is just how you say image. So if you do a face lift of the outside, people will think of it differently and that maybe that’s a part of it. But yeah, and I I do agree with that. Like when you look at these like big, you know, TD TD Garden and MSG and stuff like that, they they look outside like a little bit more modern is a better good way to put it. Something like that rather than like early 2000s dated. Um the the press box is one of the worst in the league though. So I will say that. Yeah. But but when I say that though, I say that not coloring the entire fan experience. They have spent money on the arena over the last since Hassel’s been there. I mean over the last whatever amount of time a lot of it has been funded by Hassel by the ownership and inside I mean the fan experience it seems like it’s gotten better over the years and that that is something that they that that they do they do stress over my comforts which is fine. I understand. I understand. have only ever been in the press area of three arenas. So, one was the St. Pink Times Forum in Tampa, uh TD Garden and uh SAP Center. And yeah, it’s probably the worst of those three. But what were you doing the St. St. Pete Times? Oh, is that is that when you met Scott or Yeah. Scott Hannon, your your your distant cousin? Yes. This was way long ago. Early 2000s. Um because now they play an Emily Arena and all that. Right. Right. Right. Um, but I did freeze my ass off in the TD Garden one because it was the Bean Pod and it was January or February and up there is just frozen in that like little like up in the the press arena. It was frozen. I had to bring like a big coat and that was on the second day cuz the first day I didn’t bring a big coat and I should have and I had to like wrap myself in it and it’s just it’s cold up there. You’re covering hockey. I’m trying to keep the ice cold. Well, no, but like the whole read is not that freezing. It’s just when you’re out that high, it’s like freezing cold up there. Anyway, anyway. Um, okay. Anything else to say about the SAP center thing? I’m happy that this didn’t like because last year it was kind of a I don’t know if controversy is the right word. People mistook the way that it was presented and I and I’m happy that they’ve just said nope, don’t worry about it or don’t worry about I take responsibility for how it was presented. Again, I thought the news was the sharks are staying in the Bay Area no matter what. Yeah. And the news that people drew from it was the sharks are leaving SAP Center. So, yeah. Okay. You know, there were other things in that interview too that were really cool. It was such a good interview. There was so much other stuff and hopefully he’s he comes back. We can get him back on the show. But the point though of all this is that let’s wait and see though. Let’s not jump to conclusions that they’re just going to be giving or they’re just going to let this arena hobble along over the next 25 years. Hopefully they they they do come up with a MSG. People ask me a lot, what is your favorite arena to cover a game? And I always say MSG. Not just because the press box there is actually really nice, but also too that they made it where you don’t lose the charm of of old Madison Square Garden because the the walls, I’m sorry, the ceiling is so tied in the the atmosphere is still a great place to watch a game. And so you can do it. You can turn an old arena. The again, the foundation is good. So you can you can keep you can keep an old arena and make it amazing. Another example is Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle, which is pretty much a a new a new arena in a lot of ways from what I understand. But that was an old arena that they renovated for the Seattle Kraken. And that’s an amazing place to watch a game, too. I really enjoyed my time going to that game, too. And so maybe it means there’s a a year of renovation on SAP center elsewhere. Who knows? But I’m just saying though that there’s nothing wrong with with keeping the building as it is. You don’t need a nice new shiny building every 15 years, every 20 years. Quick side note about the Jonathan Becker interview because you made me think about it. Jonathan Becker because every time we have a guest on like Sh people know who Shang is, right? because Shang is is a reporter and he’s around every game and like people know who Shang is. So we have a guest on. A lot of times Shang will introduce me to the guest be like, “Oh, this is my co-host Keegan.” Um, so he did that with Jonath or with with Becker and he was like, “I know who he is, Shang.” I was like, “Oh, cool. Hey, he was only one of the one of the few guests who goes like, I know who he is.” Although a few people have done that. Anyway, I thought that was cool. Um, anyway, big fan of the podcast, I’m sure. I I hope he’s listening to this. And again, Jonathan, sorry for last year. It’s not my fault. Glad it come back. We’d love to have you talk all the good vibes still cuz last year was all vibes. Mlin’s coming to town now. Mlin’s here. Come on, Jonathan. Come back. Yeah, vibes. Their vibes are still good. Vibes are still vibes are great. Thank you for staying at SAP Center forever. Speaking of good vibes, um another uh shark that we uh we rarely knew wants to maybe come back and be a shark. Uh and I a avan. uh who Aanv Aanv who was traded in the Aussie Wisblat deal last end of last year where Azie Wisblat went to um Nashville and has been Milwaukee uh most of the time doing really well for um for his part and Afan Aanv came back and then immediately went to Russia and played in the KHL for the past year and we kind of just assumed that that was it for the Sharks and Aanv in terms of how they would link up, but a report came out that seems like he wants to return to North America and specifically with the Sharks next year. Yeah. Not not confirmed, but the Sharks did I think they qualified him or he was still under contract. I believe they qualified him last year and so they still held his rights and I think I I I think that’s one of those things where yeah, you you just hold on to the guy’s rights. You never know if he’ll come back. It doesn’t look like he had the most productive year in the KHL. He had 21 points I think in 53 54 games. I don’t know what to make of that though because I didn’t really see him. And I actually need to ask around about him. But what he can present though, what he can help with with the potentially the Sharks hope or the Barracuda is he’s 6’4. He has some scoring touch at least for the AHL. In the AHL, he’s a point per game player. When the Sharks traded for him last year, I talked to scouts who thought that actually he could fashion himself into a bottom six AHL winger. maybe a decent one. And so that could that could still happen. But at the main reason though why I bring this up that is that it occurred to me that it’s not it’s not news really about ava but other barracuda players and since the barracuda season has ended and we’ve heard a lot about barracuda players just different ones being being maybe unhappy with their playing time or not getting enough time with the Sharks, right? And that goes with Andrew Polarowski. I think Thomas Bortal kind of alluded to it. The Neil Gushian, right? And they all have fair cases by the way. So I’m not I’m not attacking any of them. But it struck me though as we were doing those exit interviews is a lot of that came out during Barra exit interview day last I think now it’s like a week and a half ago. Yeah. But a lot what struck me is that when you have a really bad team, everyone thinks a bad NHL team. Everyone thinks that that they can make it or if they’re on the fourth line, they think they should be on the second line. And that’s sort of the drawback of having a really god-awful team. Another great example of this is Nikolai Kovaleeno, right? Kovaleeno said it flat out. Hey, in Colorado that was a Stanley Cup contending team, so I understood why it was on the top six. But but here seriously. Yeah. Yeah. gave it a whole really. So I I think I think I think the same kind of thinking applies with all the things that we heard about the Barracuda and their players after the season ended. And credit to the players, they played through it. You didn’t see anything obvious that they were pouting or whatever. Paulowski won a MVP. Denil Guushian set a careerhigh in AHL goals and led the AHL in power play goals. Thomas Borlo had a productive season, too. But I just found that funny though that that that that occurred to me that people talk about you want to tank, you want to tank, you want to tank, that’s great and all that, but one of the drawbacks is that every player thinks that they should be in the lineup. Yeah. Yeah. That’s or they should be playing higher in the lineup. So that just made made me laugh. So I wanted to Yeah. We’ll have to off see how he does when he gets here. Um Right. Good job. Well, that’s anyway that’s going to be one of the pluses of making the team better that people that players will understand why they’re being benched or why they’re not on the first line anymore. Yeah. Um, yeah, we didn’t I was actually surprised we didn’t get a ton of mailbag questions about like those guys about the Border Logins, Kovaleeno, stuff like that. We got a ton of mailbag questions last week about, you know, the future and the number two overall pick and how to fix the defense and all that stuff, but normally we get like, can you talk about X, Y, and Z prospect? And we didn’t really get that, which is interesting. Well, I think you can kind of read between the lines with all these guys. I’m not saying all of them will not be back with the Sharks, but yeah, it wouldn’t shock anybody, right? If Polaroski signs for a big money deal in the KHL and the Sharks let him go. Sharks do have to let him go. People forget that. that Porski can’t just leave the contract. But yeah, the Sharks aren’t going to be [ __ ] If he gets a big money contract, I expect that they let him walk. Same thing with with Guushin and Bordaloo. Well, I don’t know. I don’t even know if they’ll qualify them. I would expect they will qualify Guushian. Not so sure about Bordaloo, but either way though, that their time might be done in Sharks organization because they they didn’t get well, especially Guushian. Borlo did get a pretty long audition last year. He got a third of a third of a season last year. But either way though, when they were up, they showed flashes. But I think we can agree though that they didn’t do anything in of course the issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. To be like, “Oh, this this guy must be in the NHL.” So, um, we did not see that. And and they’re going to say, “This team this team sucks. I need I need more opportunity and that’s fair too and again that’s that’s a problem with having such a crappy team that everybody thinks they should be on the first line right but um but anyway so you can read between the lines even Kovale Leno right his his off and on usage and it doesn’t help if he’s complaining to the press his dad’s complaining to the media those are just not headaches that that you want to deal with for a guy that in the NHL is not a superstar player or not even a star player if it’s if it’s Alex Ovetkin, not that Alex Ovuchkin’s dad would do this. But if it’s Alex Ovuchkin’s dad bitching to the media, well, that’s okay because Alex Ovuchkin scores you 40 goals and he breaks Wayne Gretzky’s record and he makes you a lot of money. So Alex’s g dad can do whatever he wants. But if it’s somebody who is at best in the AHL is like a 40 50 point guy is like Alexander Barabonov or something like that, it’s kind of like h who needs it? We can get somebody else to do roughly about the same without the headaches. So anyway, I don’t think it would surprise anybody if if all those guys aren’t back with the Sharks, but we’ll see. Yeah, we could do a quick uh thumbs up, thumbs down on whether or not they qualify these RFAS if you want. Sure. Sure. But I would say mailbag specific that I wouldn’t waste questions on guys that are probably going to be gone. That’s me. But yeah, it’s just interesting because a lot of times we get this whole like roster talk and we didn’t really I think maybe it was also the time of the year for the mailbag. I think that’s more. Yeah. Draft lottery. Yeah. So, yeah. Anyway, uh Glim Cen, up or down on qualifying? Oh, okay. Down. Yeah, I want to go down. All right. Nicola Kovaleno up or down on qualifying? Oh, qualifying him. Yeah, they’ll qualify. They’ll qualify him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Qualifying is different, right? Just like uh just like Afan. So, you just keep his rights just in case you you want to bring him back. Noah Greor, isn’t he a UFA? He’s an RFA according to RFA. Really? Yeah. He’s 26. According to this, it says he’s an RFA. But yeah, do you know what? These days I’m on the site that shall not be named, which is uh Cap Wages. Let me check uh Cap or check Puck Pedia, which is more accurate. I mean, he’s going down. Yeah, I’m going to say no. Yeah. Yeah. No, Gregor’s an RFA according to Puck Pedia as well. Okay. Uh Jack Thompson. Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they they’ll qualify. Yeah. Georgie Romanov. No, I’m gonna say Yeah. I’m gonna say they qualify. Okay. We’ll see. All right. All right. All right. Uh Carl Bergland. No. Yeah. I don’t I don’t think so. Uh Thomas Bordello. I’m going to say no. No. I think they trade his rights. I think they get like a I don’t think they get anything for him. They they would have traded him before if they could. Or they do the whole Aussie Wiseblad thing again where they get like a guy that, you know, is out out somewhere else kind of thing. I feel like there’s there might be more demand like might might get a deal like that. I don’t know if if there’s a I didn’t think Aussie would get leaguewide appetite for H I didn’t think Aussie would get a deal like that. I didn’t think so either. But but remember though that Aussie was loan to Milwaukee. They they liked him. Oh yeah. They like the whole like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and Aussy’s got a little bit more of the if he’s not doing other things to help you, right? So yeah. Nolan Burke. Yeah. Uh, sorry. Mitchell Mitchell Russell. Sorry, Mitchell Russell. Denil Gushet. I say they qualify him. I don’t know if it was qualify, but I think they qualify. And then, uh, we got Brandon Co. Shakir. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then last, I mean, supposedly there’s there’s a there’s a story out that they’re close to resigning him, but I haven’t been able to confirm that. But it Yeah, that was also one of the rumors this week that there could be an actual contract like a a longer term thing instead of just like a one year or whatever. Who knows? Well, they didn’t specify the contract. So, it could even just be a one-year, but the story didn’t didn’t suggest any length, but uh and the last one is Gabe Kerier. And I think uh that’s a tough one. Uh I’m going to say you have to pick Romanov or Kerier or do you take think you take both? And then I’m going to say yes. And they already picked carrier over Romanov. uh for the playoffs for the playoffs. But maybe that was also because they thought that Romangh could actually do NHL things at the time. I think if if development is number one for the goalie that you you put him in into the Barracuda with the playoffs. That’s fair. Uh all right. So you’re going I’m gonna go with yes because they have to. So I don’t know how they’re going to pick both goalies because they just you know they it’s a good story. Yeah, I think they’ll get another goalie to to pair with Carrier. All right. Well, this was a fun exercise. We You can tell this week we do know we are very lean on our uh we are very lean in our topics. Well, I have a question for you, Keegan. All right. All right. Here we are. Do you still want to sign Mitch Mner? This is Sunday, May 18th, game seven. Toronto, Florida just ended. Toronto got wiped out five to one. They lost their last two. I think they lost six to1 actually. Oh, they lost six to1. Okay. Trying to do him a favor there. They lost their last two home games to the Florida Panthers 12 to1 games five and game seven. Mitch Mner scored has scored as many playoff goals in his playoff season as Jonah Gajivic had had a very nice first round but disappeared it looks like in the second round and made a lot of highlight or lowlight reel worthy plays. Yeah. So, anyway, a couple weeks ago on our episode with with our three-headed GM monster episode with with JD from Locked on Sharks, you voted that you wanted to sign sign Mitch Martyr. And thank goodness it’s a three-headed monster and JD and I voted you. That would never happen. Okay. and the in the hypothetical sharks organization run by the top daily podcast and the top Sharks podcast around I I I I am getting a lot of ribbing here but I do well two things number one maybe he won’t demand as much money or command as much money maybe the offers are not going to be there now he’s still going to get seven years I think though it’s years yeah I I just say you’re wrong or I don’t know what if what if he signs his next deal and like there’s plenty of examples of guys going to new teams and then being you know Yeah. No, that’s fair. That’s fair. Okay. It’s not like it’s not like because he is, you know, been on this team and part of this core, you know, it’s still like he’s still a great player. Had 100 points last year. You get it for $12 million by seven. I’m doing it. I don’t think he will. I think it’s going to cost 13, but I’m doing it at 12. I think I think he still might cost more, but he did cost himself this this money with anemic second round here. He really did. Um, and but I still like him as a player and I think I think again we have the space. We have the upcoming talent that he’s going to make this team a hell of a lot better, a hell of a lot sooner. So do it. I’m not I’m not afraid. I’m afraid a little bit, but I’m not afraid. I didn’t think five years from now, do you want him to be your second or third best player on your team, assuming Mlin is your best? I don’t know if I do. That’s that’s that’s that’s the that’s the long and short of it. I I don’t know if that’s the guy. And you’re right, there are guys that start off in their career maybe not having great playoffs and they they they kind of figure it out. I think not the best example but Roberto Lango I think at least if you count the Olympics that he he got better in big games because I think he had a reputation for for flubbing big games early in his career. Granted, he was on a loaded team Canada, but there are even players in the playoffs that I’ve I’ve heard negative things about before or I’ve reported it before like Evan like small like not as big name as Mitch Marner, but Evan Rodriguez like I’ I’ve had stories out before. People have told me before that they didn’t like him as locker room fit, but maybe you go to a different situation like Florida strong locker room. it’s not an issue anymore and he’s obviously an important part of their team. guys like like well not to just pick on Buffalo but Aiko leaves wins a cup example of that right Sam Ryart becomes a 50 60 goal score whatever the hell he is 50 I think but Evander Kane not my favorite player but hey he’s been a important part of now three straight conference finals teams have to give him credit he hasn’t disrupted them in any kind of way that at least has disrupted them from the goal of being successful in the playoffs. So, yeah. So, there’s a a lot of guys like that. I’m not saying that Marner is like any of these examples I’ve given you, but yeah, that that that is possible that maybe just different environment. Maybe media is not not curious about every facet of his life. Gives him a little space. May May, maybe maybe that helps. So, so yeah. And and he’s and he’s got a he reduced his AAV by a million. I’m totally in. But again though, my I my my philosophy I’ve said it many times with these kind of contracts is I don’t mind the age really. It’s just about the right player and I just don’t know especially watching these playoffs, right? Is Yeah, it’s true. He will make the te team better for sure next year, two years from now, but is he going to make the team better in the first round of the playoffs three, four years from now or the second round of the playoffs a few years from now? And based on what we’ve seen in his time in Toronto, the answer appears to be no. But he is a very talented player and so he can get better. And so I’m not I’m not ruling that out for him. But but again, that kind of investment I I don’t love. It goes back to actually a mailback question that we got a a couple of last time about well what if he would sign like a two-year $ 38 million contract because that’s the most he can offer a player AAV 20% of the cap and 19 million 19.1 and if it’s short-term sure of course because he makes the team better immediately but when we get to year five or whatever again same questions I mentioned yeah I get it I I have to I have to I have to double down at this point. I don’t know. I I think there’s a I think there’s a realistic chance that if he sticks with the right environment that he’s still a 100 point star player in the NHL. I don’t care about that part though. I know he’s going to do that in the regular season. It just is he going to be better in the playoffs when the time comes. Let’s say the Sharks are in the playoffs three years from now. And of course if they’re in the playoffs, chances are it’s because Mitch Mner, if they have Mitch Mner, helped them get there. But then I don’t want a player that I can’t find in the first round or the second round in the trenches. Yeah. And oh, we need to have this guy around for the next three, four years because well, he’s he’s here. He’s signed here. And I also just think that the system that they play like I don’t know, there’s just something with the way that their system is that it doesn’t work. Like the the big guys just they don’t show up. It reminds me of just all of those years of watching the same Sharks core fail like and the Sharks core demonstrabably has done better than the Leafs core throughout their their tenure. Um, and was like they looked a little bit more on that edge, but like this it’s the same story. And I don’t think it’s specifically Mitch Marner. So like there’s still Tavvaris Nelander and Matthews who have varying degrees of badness during the playoffs every year, you know? Sure. But there’s little things though that you see that that that I don’t like like Neander Knander bitching out Marner or some of the the play like the the one that got a lot of views from game five his little spinning pass. I don’t I don’t even mind the spinning pass that much because it was a bad pass. It was a bad pass, but he can do it. It’s worked for him before. But then he gets beat to the front of the net. That’s what can happen. Yeah. The mistake. You’re you’re Mitch Marner. you you get the the the red carpet to try things out, do things that your average fourth liner, whoever can’t do, and that’s fine. But in front of the net, your effort level can’t be any lower than Steven Lawrence’s or any other fourth liner. Well, like that to me was problematic. Yeah, I know. But I I think the guy that makes the most money and the guy that I feel like is the most divisible is Austin Matthews. Like I understand that Marner made made that mistake and like I don’t know there’s got to be a level of I’m the superstar from Matthews too. So well that’s fair but Marner’s I’m sorry Matthews isn’t the one that’s a free agent. So we’re not talking about Matthews coming coming home to to to the Bay Area. So we’re talking about Marner because he’s he’s the UFA. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I I he brings something to the Sharks that they don’t have. Even if it is I agree. I agree. Even if it is not the everything that you want from a player and even he’s not a 6’4 bruiser and he’s not a like an all-around. He’s not Alexander Barov. He’s not a Selki winner. He’s he’s a playmaker that is extremely talented and that’s what he is. And we’ve had that in the past with Joe Thornton. It didn’t work out. Maybe it’s the same kind of thing. Maybe that style of play doesn’t really work out. Not that they’re similar players, you know what I mean? But like they they typically or they can fade a little bit and he’s but he’s primarily a playmaker. So and again that part’s fine with me though. It just when I talk about that specific play that I mentioned it’s not the play that he tried that got picked off which is not a great play but it’s the effort at the end and and the effort. Yeah. like the the I don’t remember who scored but that that that guy was untouched to to I think it was Wall. Yeah. Um maybe and that’s that’s the one where where I’m not sure what what happens there because he’s supposed Mar is supposed to be a good defensive player too when he’s at his best hear a lot of talk from Toronto that oh he’s got to get some selki votes he earns that and he’s on a penalty kill a lot so yeah and he’s a smart player it’s just I yeah I I really I want him to go somewhere else like I really do because it doesn’t it’s not working and you never know that he might catch fire with a new team. You know what happens too, and this actually supports your point, is when a player goes somewhere and he doesn’t have to be your one or your two. Mhm. And then he can kind of shine more when there’s just like a little less on his shoulders. And so if a Martyr were to come to San Jose, you have a a number one in Celabbrini that you we think is not going to be the type to shrink from pressure too. Whatever’s going on with Matthews or whatever’s going on with other kind of number one players that haven’t really lived up to being the top player like maybe like a Joe Thornton too that celebrating gives the earmarks of a guy that isn’t going to be that. We don’t know, of course, until he actually makes the playoffs. But so then if Mner can fit in better as fit in as a number two with a clear top dog who takes over in the playoffs unlike Austin Matthews or if Matt if Martin can slide to be your number three somehow if you someone you draft Michael Misa or Will Smith steps up and becomes like a playoff monster. Who knows, right? But maybe maybe it works. But yeah, it’s like in Florida, Samurai Art is, you know, there’s Kachchuck and Barov around him and like he has the the room to breathe because I remember it was like he got traded for like a first and something else. Yeah, the goalie Levi and Yeah, something else I think not that. Yeah, it was a first round pick and Devin Levi and the first was probably in like Oh, the first became Yuri Kulick. Oh, that’s cool. uh for Buffalo. Yeah. Yeah. It was a late first. It was like 28th. So, it was not like a huge all like Deon Levi is a good goalie. Um but like that I also felt like Buffalo was just like, “Yes, we got to get rid of this guy. Like he’s never going to win for us.” And like it’s the same thing. It turns out he’s as good as a 57 goal scorer. And you know, anyway, teams get really, really down on their players when they cannot win for them. And we did that for years with so many different guys as Sharks fans. Um that you just get super down on them and you forget like they actually and sometimes this doesn’t always happen. They can they can make it with a new team. So yeah, it was a first round pick and Devin Levi, who is a pretty good goalie prospect, but Yeah. Yeah. So I’m going to say yes. And that we’ve now got him for cheaper. Hell yeah. Yeah. I I’m I’m still going to say no. It’s the term that again I I’m not I’m not I’m not with if if he were willing to sign a shorter deal, but there’s I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that he would. And I don’t think it’ll be that much cheaper because there’s still a lot of teams that need talent and who are either more desperate or or closer than the Sharks. So maybe that’s Anaheim, maybe that’s Chicago, maybe that’s that’s somebody else. And so I can live with maybe maybe maybe maybe waiting one more year before the big splash. But again, the the right guy, trade for the right guy if you can. I don’t know. But the right guy, the guy the guy you want in the trenches five years from now. I feel like he’s going to go to one of these like forever rebuild teams that really wants to try and make the next step like Detroit or Buffalo or Ottawa or Utah or uh one of these like teams like if they could find the cap space somehow to try and get over the hump. Um maybe goes to Vancouver. Maybe Seattle, right? Seattle’s try and try. Although I think he goes to I think he goes to an American team next. I don’t think he goes to a Canadian team. Just just a gut feeling. Yeah. Like I I cannot imagine like eight years of being just microscoped by Toronto has made him feel like he wants to go to like Montreal, Vancouver. Well, yeah, that’d be hilarious. Yeah. Like I can’t he’s going to want to go to like, you know, Columbus. It’s like kind of want to go somewhere where Yeah, maybe San Jose, honestly. Hey, Columbus does make some sense. They’re they’re they were a couple points away from the from the playoffs. They they’ve got a lot of talent. He doesn’t need to be I guess he’ll be the number one guy, but for sure. There just won’t be there just wouldn’t be as much attention on him because they look deeper right now. Yeah. while they have a lot of players on on on either ELC’s or bridge contracts or whatnot. So, that might that actually might be a good good place for him. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe Detroit, too, but they don’t know if they’ve got the space to really make it happen. And then like you still have Dylan Larkin as your number one center who’s good, but is that your real number one center? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you have kind of kind of a similar similar question. Um, anything else this week? No. We get to Craig. I think I think uh I think I think uh we have a awesome interview with Craig. So, looking forward to sharing that with you guys. Yeah, I hope you all um have a good week. I hope you all enjoy the interview with Craig. It’s um excellent. And we will see you uh next time. All right. Bye. This week we welcome back Craig Button, current draft analyst for TSN and former director of player personnel for the Dallas Stars in 1999. We had Craig on last year after the Sharks won the draft lottery. This year the Sharks have the number two overall pick in the 2025 NHL entry draft. He’s here to talk all about who he sees coming to San Jose at number two. Welcome Craig. Yeah, glad to be with you. It’s a lot of fun and it’s not as certain this year at number two as it was at number one last year, but that makes it fun. Yeah. Yeah, last year we got to just talk all about how amazing Celebrini is and what it’s gonna be Mlin Mlin Mlin Mlin Mlin podcast. It felt like this year we’re gonna have maybe some uh some debate, maybe some interesting opinions on the number two overall pick. Yeah, I think that what’s always good about it is is that you know there’s lots of different uh options. There’s lots of different ways you can go. I don’t know if you’ve seen any of the World Championships and what Mlin has done over there. It is. I mean, he has been fantastic. But he here here’s the biggest thing for Sharks fans to know for him to be in the orbit of Sydney Crosby for two and a half weeks. Oh, yeah. I mean, we already know what a terrific leader he is, but this this is PhD learning right now for Mlin Calibbrini being around Crosby. How lucky he is to be there and how lucky the Sharks are for him to have this type of experience is phenomenal. Yeah, it it was strange to me. It like dawned on me. I was like, “Wait, Sydney Crosby is in the world championship.” And then And McKinnon and A McKinnon. You just don’t normally see that kind of thing. And then you’re right with our um our boy Mlin there. It’s It’s kind of amazing. Fits like a glove. It feels like Yeah, sure does. Um and you’re Okay, so most recently you put out a mock draft on TSN that uh kind of shocked some Sharks fans. um basically having uh Porter Martone as the selection at number two instead of the uh consensus. I guess I would say number two Michael Misa. Um talk about that if you can. Well, I must not be part of the consensus because I don’t agree with the consensus. Like well there’s a lot of different ways. I mean again Michael Mis is a really good player and certainly you know when I look at San Jose Sharks you’re trying to build out a team. You’re trying to build out a team and you’re trying to find players that add different elements to your team. Last I looked, they don’t have any element like Porter Martone. They don’t have any. They have lots of skill. They have lots of skilled players and good skilled players. So, what do you want to do? You want to add another really good skilled player or do you want to add a skilled player with bite? Because if we watch the NHL playoffs, it’s hard. It’s really hard. And I’m not suggesting that the skilled players can’t can’t do well. What whatever ones you want to do. Order Marone’s a difference maker. Order Martone is somebody that gives you a different look in your lineup. You have Mlin Salabbrini. You have Will Smith. You have Quinton Musty. You have William Meckllin. You have Chernese Chev. You know, you have all these really good players. You have Bistad who who’s a first round draft pick. I don’t see anybody I don’t see anybody like Porter Martone. And I think you need Porter Martones to win when it counts and matters. So, it’s the um it’s the physicality aspect. Is there What about Martone? Um do you think has that bite? Is it just uh the way he plays? You know what I call him? I call him Perry Kachchuck after Cory Perry and Matthew and and and and and Brady. So, I I don’t think I have to describe what those three guys do or and how they contributed to winning and how they continue to contribute to the and they’re unique. There not very many players like that and they’re really hard to find. And by the way, Mlin Celerrini and uh Porter Martone played an exhibition game together at before the World Championships. They didn’t look bad together. They look pretty good. Do you um do you see I guess in not just in terms of um a mock draft, but in your your ranking, do you see Misa as like a number two or is it more about a fit thing with San Jose for Martone? Uh it it I don’t think again you could take 32 teams in the NHL and they’re top 10 and we’ll all vary. There’s no I mean one of the things that I always like to clarify here everybody go best player available. Well best player available is all different depending on what team list you’re looking at. Somebody might say this is the best player available to and that’s who they take. Somebody else might say no no this is the best player. So this whole idea about best player available, it there’s no validity to it because it’s all specific to the team and how they rank and how they rate. So you know, everybody outside goes, “Oh yeah, best player available.” No, it’s about what you want. It’s about what you feel is a good fit for you. Michael M is a really good player. James Hayden’s a really good player. Anton Fondell’s a really good player. And you know, we know Matthew Schaefer is a really good player. Like it’s not about who who who’s a good player. There’s no Conor McDavid, Mlin Celibbrini, Austin Matthews in this draft. There none. So next year it’ll be really easy. Who’sever number one will be Matthew will be McKenna. And you know, you can make a case that you if you don’t want a defenseman, you don’t take Matthew Schaefer. But I think that Matthew Schaefer just based on who’s picking in the in the top part of the well, who’s picking one. I just don’t see uh a reason why you wouldn’t take Matthew Schaefer, a Drew Dowy type player in my view that can control the game. So when we get after that, I can guarantee you this and I’m I mean everybody’s talking and you know, nobody’s talking anymore or any less than anybody else. There’s no there’s no certainty that one player should go with two over another player. It just it just isn’t like that. Well, it also sounds like there’s no maybe no certainty at one two maybe in some ways. But I’ll get to that in a second though. I did want to ask you Craig about the idea of draft or need versus best player available. You do make an excellent point that best player available. It sort of depends on the team of course and how they how they see things. But Mike Greer did say this uh and I quote just a couple weeks ago, we’re not at the point where we’re going to draft for need. And so in your opinion, you won a Stanley Cup with the Dallas Stars player person, director of player personnel 1999. You also were GM of the Flames for a couple of years after that. So when do you what is that point? When is the point where you quote unquote you draft or need? What do you make of my career’s quotes there? Well, what is need? That’s a good question. I mean, it depends on the team, I guess, right? And if you look at the Sharks, need is what you talk about, a guy like Martone, maybe need is maybe a defenseman like Schaefer, and they all happen to be at the top of the draft. Why don’t I look at it a different way? Need is to build out your team with different types of players. We we get focused on, oh, need this player. These players are not going to be contributors uh for a number of years, whether that be two years or three years. That’s how long it’s going to take for these guys to be contributors. This isn’t the NFL where you’re looking to go, we need a left tackle. We’re taking the best left tackle from from Iowa. It’s not it’s hockey isn’t like that where you go and need. So when I talk about need, I I don’t even talk about need. I I talk about what you need to be a really good team. I talk about what types of players make really good teams. I talk about when I look at a team and I say here’s what they have and how can they round out the roster. That’s why I say Porter Martones, like for me, if I was the manager of the of the San Jose Sharks, I’d be selecting Porter Martona, too. That’s what I’d be doing if I was the manager. I’m not the manager. Mike Greer’s the manager. I think Mike Greer’s done an outstanding job of building his team and building it out in a lot of different areas with a lot of different types of players. It’s not just about one type of player. It’s about finding different types of players that can play different ways in the game that can contribute in in in ways that help you win it. Help you win when it matters most. I don’t care about November. I care when it matters. And the reason I look at the San Jose Sharks and I see Porter Martone because I see a guy that when it matters, he’s front and center. Is he the most skilled guy out of those guys? Maybe not. But Brady Kachchuck, I don’t know what he had, eight or nine goals in his draft. Oh, you can’t draft Brady Kachchuck. Oh, yeah, you can’t, can you? You know. Yeah, you can. Matthew Kachchuck went six. Brady Kachchuck went four. Cory Perry went 28th, I believe. And those guys all should have gone higher. 46 28 all should have gone higher. Do you What do you see out of Porter in the the playoffs or any other kind of you the world juniors? those those kind of like high leverage kind of events that makes you so confident that he’s got that little extra playoff something and you’re definitely right like when the Panthers for example traded for Matthew Kachchuck they traded a lot for him but hey he was the missing piece so what do you see out of order that reminds you of Perry Kachchuck there well number one you know you go to the events and and certainly you know they’re they’re a little bit higher level And Portorm Tones excelled at him. I mean, he was a key figure when Canada won the U8 gold medal in 2024. I’ve watched Porter play since he was 15 years of age. And I don’t care where he’s been or what he’s done. He has always been a differencemaker. So, what’s a differencemaker? You do it with skill, you do it with power, you do it with will, you do it with smarts. There’s no area of the game that that I don’t see Porter Martone contributing it. Like, is is he going to be on the highlight reels going end to end? No. He’s not that type of player, but neither is Matthew Kachchuck. But you want to be a you want a player on your team that can win the battles, that can get to the net and and he’s a smart player. He knows how to play with really good players. He knows how to he’s got good hands. He’s got a good shot, excellent hockey sense, and he’s big and he’s powerful. And by the time he’s 21, he’s only going to be that much bigger and that much more powerful. And to me, again, I keep just going right back to it. The type of players that can help you win when it matters the most vary. Yeah, you need a Mlin Celerbrini. No question you do. And Will Smith is one top player like but you can’t have just a full team of Mlin Celibbrinies and Will Smiths or you’re not going to win. It’s a Mike Greer quote as well. He actually said almost that exact phrase. Um did he? Okay. So, so think about that though. So, we’re not going to d we’re not going to draft for need and then he makes that quote. I think it wasn’t about the draft. I think it was about uh you know what I mean. Yeah. Team full of players. I I know it wasn’t about the draft. I’m just saying. I would argue. Trust me, I know Mike pretty good. I’ve watched Mike for a long time and I really admire what Mike has done there. I I think the San Jose Sharks on a great path. So, make no mistake about this. But Mike when Mike is building a team that ultimately can have a success when it matters. And that’s why I when I you I use need in a different way. I’m not using need what they need tomorrow in their lineup. I’m talking about what they need ultimately to be a top competitive team competing for the cup. I would argue though very strenuously that you can win with 12 Min Cabrinis. Just 12 Raptors. No, you can’t. You can’t. No, you can’t. Because he’s a good combination player. He does a lot of things well. Well, the reason you can’t win with 12 Min Cellrinis is because the salary cap isn’t $800 million. Yeah, you can’t win. Okay. That’s a different argument then. You can’t pay them all. Yeah, that’s why. Nice try, Shane. Nice nice try. They’re all on their ELC’s. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I mean, there you go. There would be there would be the rebuttal. There would be the arguments all on year three of his ELC. Okay. So, so to get 12 celebrities, let me get this straight. So, you got to pick first for 12 straight years. Yes. argument and clone him. Yeah, clone him. Yeah. Okay, there you go. But so I guess ultimately with with with Martone though, I I I feel like you’re you’re kind of saying that Marton is has the potential to be the best playoff player of anybody in this draft. So is is that a fair I mean at least the potential to be maybe Schaefer. Well, Schaefer I I think Schaefer is excellent, but that doesn’t mean I’ve seen James Hagen’s perform great. I’ve seen Michael Misa Michael Misa’s won a Memorial Cup. He’s won a gold medal to U8. James Hagens has been highly successful. I mean, this isn’t about I I’m not talking about when the playoffs are. I’m talking about players that that are difference makers that when it counts. And like I said, Michael Mis has done it. I’ve watched them. I’ve watched Schaefer do it. I’ve watched Hagens do it. I’ve watched Fondell do it. I’ve watched these guys do it. They’re not Porter Martone. William Ecklund, what was he the seventh overall pick? I think he was the seventh overall pick, right? William Ecklund’s a really, really good player. Really good player. And again, you’re not going to have a team full of William. Yeah. No, I agree with that. You just can’t. Yeah. And and and so you love William. So when you’re trying to build out your team, and again, I go back to need. You’re trying to build out your team. So, we have William Ecklan, we have Casper Holton in a a big-time shooter. We have Chernese who who was brilliant this year in Sagena. And, you know, if there was ever an argument to drafting Michael Misa, it would be well, you know, we played with Churnish. Maybe we have a a dynamic duo there. And, you know, that that might be something. But, you have all these types of players. I I don’t I don’t see any player with the skill set and the power and the and the disruptive force that I think that Porter Marone is and I don’t see I don’t see very many players in the NHL period and I don’t see anybody in in San Jose at that level. No. Okay. No, it’s definitely a compelling argument. Wanted to move on to another portion of the draft. I want to ask you more about actually Matthew Schaefer and Schaefer going into this draft. I guess we can he is the consensus number one it looks like right we can agree on that and I wonder though that and you you would know about this Craig because you were GM of the Flames back then could you see Schaefer kind of dropping from being consensus first overall like Jay Bow Master I think was a consensus first overall going into the 2002 draft and one comparison that I can add to it is that Bowmester from from my reading research and memory too did not have the strongest draft here. Um, not as strong as people hoped for at least. And Schaefer obviously just was hurt in a different kind of situation. And so anyway, do you can you see things conspiring? I know a lot of people talk about the Islanders want to draft a local boy in James Hagens. I don’t know how legitimate that is, but just that things conspire that we can have something that happens with Bo Meester and with and what happened with Bo Meester basically was that uh Florida had the number one pick. They traded back with Columbus at to number three. Columbus went up to number one to pick Rick Nash and Florida drafted Bowmester number three. So, do you see anything like that happening? Uh, I don’t know. I I I can’t rule it out. I I think that if you’re if if if you’re going in and you’re evaluating players on if they played good or they didn’t play good, you’ve already failed in the scouting exercise. Scouting is not about catching a player play good and and being unduly harsh if you didn’t play good. Scouting is about evaluating players and about understanding how much they’ve progressed and then you’re trying to project potential and you’re using the past as well as the present to try to do that go through that exercise. You’re drafting 17 and 18 year old kids and they’re not going to like I said they’re not the vast majority of them don’t get to the NHL till 21 or 22 anyway and the ones that get there earlier for the the overwhelming majority aren’t aren’t aren’t ready to really make an impact on 21. So if you’re going, “Oh, okay. Boom didn’t play good for me. Oh boy, we might let him drop.” Not, you failed. In my view, you have failed the scouting exercise. So I I can’t I can’t say that that’s not a possibility. Uh but what I can say is is that, you know, Matthew Schaefer to me, if you’ve watched him long enough and you’ve done the work, you can’t do anything about injuries. And Roger McQueen’s another great example. the the Brandon Wheat Kings uh elite elite center and when I watch Roger play and he he’s had a he’s had an injury this year. If you’ve watched him and and you’re confident in your assessments, then I don’t know what the problem is. And Matthew Schaefer in my view is a clearcut number one defender. Clear cut. When I compare him in terms of in terms of type of player, now I’m not saying he’s this type of player. I’m talking about controlling the game. That’s what Drew Dowy did. I don’t have to tell Sharks fans about Drew Dowy. Drew Dowy controlled the game. He still controls the game even at this age. Maybe not the same extent that he did when he was younger. That’s what I see in Matthew Schaefer. Okay. Do Do you see any comp in terms of that that drop though with Bo Meester? I mean, your memories back then or or not really. That that’s that’s just sort of they’re just both defenseman basically. Well, I mean, like I said, like I mean, again, I I I think I I think I said very clearly, if that’s your rationale, you failed the scouting exercise. So, so I put a stake in the ground there and but I can’t I can’t rule it out. I can’t, but some team wants to do that. I see lots of teams make mistakes. That’s what I see. Okay. I see lots of teams and and and again teams are not trying to make a mistake that teams are trying to draft players or are drafting players that they feel are going to help their franchises. But in and in in in the analysis of it and understanding one of the big things with scouting, scouting doesn’t end when you draft a player. Scouting has to be continuous. When you’re when you draft a player, whoever it may be, like let’s just say like you have a list. So, the Sharks draft Will Smith fourth overall, but that’s great. They get their guy. That was the guy they wanted. But you got to continue to evaluate. Okay, how did we evaluate that guy? What did we learn? Did we overvalue? Did we overestimate that player? Did we underestimate this player? How is this player progressing? And you got to do that continuously to to to to to better your scouting uh process. you it it doesn’t stop at the draft and it doesn’t stop with just the player you drafted because there’s lots of players you’re evaluating and you’re putting your list in order. All I’m saying is is if you start with he played good or he didn’t play good and that becomes weighted too much to your scouting decision and I’m clear on this. You have failed the scouting exercise. You get a big F for me. You don’t get a participation ribbon. You get an F. Okay. So, I guess we’ll see if the New York Islanders if they failed or not failed the static test about a month or so. Well, that doesn’t mean that they draft Shane. I’m just saying like again, they may again that they may think that another player is the best player. I don’t have a problem with that. I’m talking about play good, not play good, be injured, not injured. you the teams I one of the things that I’ve become really clear on for myself is I’m not the one doing the deep dive on medical reports and I’m not going to do deep dives on medical reports. What I can do though is watch these players for a long period of time years and say here’s what I think. Now if if there’s something that’s debilitating from a medical report that’s not up to me. I can only say what the projection I can acknowledge that a player has been hurt. I can acknowledge that a player didn’t play as many games and because of injury, but when I’m assessing players and ranking them, I’m basing it on potential. Well, let me rephrase the question then with Schaefer then. Have you heard just because he hasn’t played a lot of games that that has maybe impacted his stock to some degree? Maybe just things you hear, not you know, yeah, not not saying any particular team’s judgment or how they’re judging him, but just have you it just does it seem like his stock may be a little maybe a little diminished because of it? Uh well, Bob McKenzie, who does the best job of anybody in terms of in terms of of getting a consensus of what NHL scouts are thinking and the process uh that they’re going through and where a player may get selected, which is very different than me. Not very different, but different than me. I I’m projecting where I think the players will be in four or five years time. That’s what I’m doing. I’m not doing what Bob does. And so when I see Bob have Schaefer like the number one guy, nine out of 10 of the NHL personnel that he or 10 of the 11, whatever it is, and he has Schaefer one, that’s good enough for me to understand that Bob’s got his finger on the pulse. So that that’s where I get my uh info from. I get it. I talked to I talked to lots of NHL people like lots of time uh to to be I haven’t heard that. And and keep this in mind too, Shane. It doesn’t really matter what 30 of the teams say. Anyways, so when the teams at the top, yeah, when I when I was part of a franchise, I always got asked about how would you rate these guys? I said, well, we’re picking 27th. I haven’t watched the guys in the top 10. We didn’t waste our time watching guys in the top 10 because we weren’t going to get them. So, we didn’t spend time on, so I’m going to start trying to figure out that guy’s should be six instead of seven. I never did it. So, a lot of it too is like and and Bob and I talk about it privately, but like, okay, where’s it at? Okay, what what what where did this information come from? If a team picking 23rd wants to start telling me about Matthew Schaefer, I could care less. Your opinion doesn’t matter. I uh want to move on just to touch. We have a few more questions if that’s okay with you. Sure. Oh, yeah. That’s great, King. Yeah, no problem. Um I guess an interesting name and you mentioned him in the very beginning of the show was the was Anton Frondell. Um he’s been kind of bobbed around the top five. You have him going at at number eight I believe. What do you see from Anton Fondell and is there any kind of world where that’s like a surprise uh pick for the Sharks. So now understand, okay, so I do a mock draft. I have no bloody idea what teams are going to do. But let me add this. NHL teams don’t know what they’re going to do at eight. teams don’t know what they’re going to do at three. Don’t know what they’re gonna They have to wait to see what unfolds in front of them. So, I try to look at the draft. I try to go, okay, what might be a nice fit? What might work? You know, I have no idea. I don’t have inside knowledge. I don’t know who teams are. The teams don’t know who they’re going to pick and you expect me to know who they’re going to pick. I just try to go here’s where, okay, this might fit here, that might fit there, blah blah blah blah blah. And I have fun with it. That’s reality. Anton Fondell is a top three or four player in my view in this draft. He might be two. He he he might be the best centerman in this draft. I haven’t come to a final conclusion on that, but he’s that good to me. He he has his game is Sasha Barkov. That’s his game. And so I I don’t I don’t fuss about that. For me in my projections, could be number two when it’s all said and done. Take that for what it’s worth. Oh, good. Okay. So, that’s that’s a Oh, go ahead. I was going to say it’s another um we don’t want to fail or try and fail the scouting exercise, but yeah, his production was was fantastic and he he seemed like he improved a lot throughout the year. Yeah. Again, like like I’ve watched him for a long time and you watch him at different levels against different competition do different things and again like Yeah. teams have to do this. They have to put a stake in the ground and they have to say this is you’re you’re looking at a at a lot of information. You’re listening to a lot of voices. I’m talking within your group. You’re you’re you’re debating this or that. Why would this guy be a fit? Why wouldn’t that guy be a fit? I I I told you about Martone, but I also can make a case for Misa and Chernese who had magic in Sagenar this year. And if that’s where you want to go, like like I’m not going to sit there and say, “Oh my god, I can’t believe they took Michael Misa.” like that because Mike Lee is is that good. I’m just saying what my rationale is and and why I would do it and that’s what makes it so good and and with Fondell you watch him and and you see him do the so many different things in the game and I try to come up with comparable types of players and almost from the get-go when I first saw him play I was like geez he’s got some similarities there just just in his posture and and the way he looked and then you watch him play and you just see more and more of that and you know time like you know I got I got a week before I put out another list. And it’ll be very different. I shouldn’t say very different. That’s not right. But there’ll be some there’ll be some changes from the the last one I did in in at the end of the CHL season. But, you know, there’s there’s lots of I I keep hearing this, too. Oh, this draft isn’t very good. Yeah. Again, like garbage. The draft is really good. There’s lots of good players and there’s going to be lots of good players that play in the NHL and there’s going to be players drafted in the third round that we didn’t expect to be good that are going to be good. There’s going to be guys drafted in the first round that won’t have NHL careers. Just the way it goes. I just know that by the numbers. Wanted to ask you, you mentioned that team, you know, a team may not know right now who who they’re going to draft. Like just in general, when do teams kind of finalize their list? Do they do it after the combine? I mean, just generally speaking here, I think there’s a lot of things that go into it. you know, you you’re having your scouting meeting, so you’re having all these debates. The combine is going to play it. Interviews. You narrow down your group, right? Like I mean, let’s just use the San Jose Sharks. I’m going to imagine they probably have a group of I’m going to say five or six players because because they might be getting calls. Would you trade up? Would you would you trade or they might want to trade up another team? They trade back. So, you got to expand your group of players. It might be only four. I I’m just picking a number. But so now you narrow in on those players and and that’s where you’re going to concentrate a big part of your work is is is on those players. And then you you discuss, okay, here’s what we like, you know, here’s what here here’s some some of our concerns. How much of is it development and all those things? So like that might happen the morning of the draft. And and and then when I say they don’t know, like again, you’re waiting to see and then somebody comes to you and says, “We’ll give you this and that.” Like I’ll give you an example. I think it was the 2012 draft. 2012 draft. The Columbus Blue Jackets offered the fourth pick to the uh No, the New York Islanders offered the fourth pick and all their other picks to the Columbus Blue Jackets for the second pick. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, that’s a Griffin Reinhardt, Ryan Murray draft, right? Okay. Yeah. And the Columbus Blue Jackets said no, so they took Ryan Murray and we know what what the Islanders did. Like like what what happens if you get that type of an offer, right? It happened. Like I’m dealing with reality here. It happened. One team said no. One team was ready to do it. So something could get presented to to the San Jose Sharks at two and it fits here. And then you’re going, “Okay, now what do we do?” Like that’s why I say you have to expand your group. You have to have more of a group because you might get some kind kind of a situation like that. Doesn’t happen often. It’s rare, but you but you got to be prepared for it. So when I when you ask me saying about when do they know they might not know like and again when you’re picking five, you have your list. You really don’t know who you’re getting because so much of it is dependent on in front of you. That’s why you got to be prepared and teams are prepared. they are prepared and you know and then you then that’s some teams oh my god we got to trade up we want to get this guy and you know you start to see you start to see patterns so being prepared is is such an important part of the process because if you’re not prepared then you’re then you end up in this state of oh boy now what I want to want to ask you about another maybe not I don’t know if the Sharks will draft him but obviously his brother plays for the Sharks Willie Mlin Can you tell us a little bit about Victor Ecklan? You had him 13 in your mock draft. I love Victor. I love Victor. I I think Victor’s got a big time motor. He reminds me a lot of the way he plays to Brendan Gallagher of the Montreal Canadians. Now Brendan was a whatever a fifth round draft pick, sixth round draft pick, little different circumstances, but Brendan’s been a really You go look at that draft and just go look where Brendan fits into that draft. And Victor has the same type of motor. He never quits. He’s got a brilliant mind for the game. He can play with good players. And somebody like Victor is is going to is going to help a team. He if if Victor if if Victor was as big as Porter Martone, you might be in the same conversation. He’s not. All things being equal, and they’re not, but if they were equal, you know, you you would have Eklan. I’m talking about the size and the power and everything. You you would have Aman and Martone, but Marton’s a much bigger player and but similar types of games. Victor’s a big-time competitor. That fire that fire never flickers. It’s an interesting thing because his his brother is obviously a big competitor, too, but he’s not as physical, it seems like. And Victor seems like he’s got that more physical edge. Maybe a little bit more of a shooter as well, or at least has a more propensity to shoot. Like his brother’s more of a playmaker, it seems like. interesting styles, both good skaters and everything, too. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Keegan, and they are different, but but similar in in a lot of way because Williams a big-time competitor, too. He might he might display it in a little bit of a different way. But V Victor, when I first saw Victor play, I mean, he was a younger player and but he was undersized and I and I and I remember thinking, geez, once he gets a little bit bigger, and this is part of watching, right? You’re watching as a player gets a little bit bigger, how does he handle things? And as he got bigger, he just became more impactful. And as he grows, I mean, he was a good player in the allense skin this year playing with Fondell on a team that won the championship in the Allen skin. This this wasn’t a player being given a pass. Hey, come and play a few games for us. You’re a good young player. He he he was a good important player on that on that championship team. Not for Linda Garden. Sorry. Yep. It’s kind of a uh um what’s the word? some sort of serendipity and his brother was there when they got relegated. He’s really sad about it and then as his his younger brother comes back and helps them win get Well, let me ask you guys this. They have Ottawa’s pick, don’t they? No, they have uh Dallas’s pick. Yeah, they have they have Ottawa’s pick in the second round, right? Yep. So, it looks like Dallas is going to be picking 29, 30, 31 or 32. Yeah. I don’t But you never know. Like could you package a bunch of like that first round pick the first round pick you got next year a second round pick to trade up to go get Victor Eckler? No, maybe that’s a different possibility. You can you can maybe package the Dallas first and you have the two seconds there. Uh the San Jose second, that’s 33 and then the Ottawa second because they made a similar trade in 2022 um going from 11 back to 27 for the Beast draft. So they 27 34 and 45. So the value is it’s not impossible for them to change I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s actually one of our our few remaining questions is are there any players say they keep the Dallas pick that you see that that uh might uh feel like a Mike Greer pick if you got new names. Yeah. I So here’s the way I look at the draft. I I think we could all sit here right now, the three of us, and say, “Okay, here’s 20 guys that are going in the first round.” I don’t think we would have any problem coming up with 20 guys. Now I try to find the guys that go 21 to 32. And I I always say the draft is essentially the first round for me is 20 guys. And then I go and then I think the next group of players 21 to 50. And people 30 guys. Yeah, I do. I think because how do you draft a guy at 43 and go, “Boy, we can’t believe we got him there.” You know why? Because they rated him way higher. Why do teams want to trade up from 43 to get to 26? because they had that player rated high. So, there’s so many players that are going to be available like if if you think about what the Sharks did last year, you know, you and and it was such a like and I knew like I shouldn’t say I knew but but when they traded from 14 to 11 to get into that spot where they took Dickinson, who’s going to play who’s going to play in the NHL next year, that was to get a shot at one of those defensemen. I don’t think Mike Greer thought that he’d have to make a choice. I think he was just trying to make sure he got one of them out of the six. And you know, we know Buam, you know, went after that. He went 12th right after uh Dickinson went 11. But at 14, one of those six weren’t going to be there and and Mike knew that. So he traded up to 11. And then you get Churnishef. You get Chernese like that. That’s a pretty bloody good pick. Like Chernesef. So again, you you might get a player I I I nobody’s told me this, but I bet you if somebody had you gave him the truth serum that the San Jose Sharks would say they had Chernv rated a lot higher. So it’s not so much a name, Keegan, but more or less like that type of player and that type of player that the team rates a little bit higher and they’re kind of, wow, I can’t believe we got the guy. I think that that’s what that’s the opportunity they’re going to get with Dallas’s pick if they keep it. Well, you dropped the bomb there at the at the end there with with Dickinson. Do you think that Dickinson is Two questions about Dickinson. Do you think he is any ready for next year like he can play the entire schedule with the Sharks, not just his nineame kind of trial run? And also too, where do you fall in Dickinson Boo? Because that’s a lot of think that’s a Sharks fans think about that a lot. Well, I mean the two different players again there’s a perfect example, right? So you you want to get into a spot to get one of those defenseman. I I think Z’s an outstanding defenseman. I think that Sam’s an outstanding defenseman. Again, the evaluation. Okay. What does Sam bring us? What does Zeve bring us? You know, and everything that you look at in in terms of the whole evaluation and process. And then and then you you you you have to make a choice. You have to say, “Okay, here’s where we’re going.” Listen, if they would have taken Zeve instead of Sam, it wouldn’t it wouldn’t be any less. Zeve’s ready to play in the NHL, and he’ll play in the NHL next year. And so they made the choice on Sam. Do I think Sam’s ready to play in the NHL? I think Sam’s ready to play in the NHL right now. Like Sam’s not going to be a nineame audition there. He is completely dominated the OHL. He’s with the best defenseman in the OHL this year. Uh after having a brilliant year, the the London Knights are going to the Memorial Cup for a second straight year. Sam Dickinson has outplayed the OHL. Sure, he will be in San Jose next year because he’s ready. Not because he was the 11th overall pick, because he’s ready to be in that lineup. I’m not making that statement because he’s 11. I’m making the statement because that’s how ready Sam is. I would ask, I guess it’s my my last question about that that there are there are questions about maybe his processing and that sort of thing. Do you think that it’s going to be just a really wild a really big jump though for him to go from the OHL to the NHL in terms of just we know he has a package of physical tools but just the the processing uh the the pace that sort of thing that that might be a little much for him. Nope. Good answer. I love it. Definitely helps. Oh, he he he’s a he’s a man amongst boys playing in the OHL. Yeah. Be an interesting thing. He can’t And for viewers and whoever’s listening, he can’t really go anywhere else, right? It’s like OHL or NHL for him. Yeah. Yeah. That’s And he signed an NHL contract, so he can’t go to the NCAA, right? Yeah. So, and the Sharks are definitely lean on defense, so possibly there could be a uh a fit there. Yeah. Well, and that’s again I you know last year when they made that trade from 14 to 11, I said they’re trying to get one of those six defenseman and they knew through their intel they weren’t going to get one of them at at 14 and they were right. Yeah. Great. Amazing. Uh and and just having the extra ammo from the seconds they had and this year too, extra seconds as well kind of that to happen. So listen, Mike’s done a terrific job. Him and his staff, I think, have done a terrific job. We all know that it’s been a rebuild in San Jose. we and that’s not easy to do. And it’s not about and and I want to make this final point. It’s not about getting a collection of players. It’s about building a team and that that can have a chance to have players at critical positions and understanding how you can build it out to ultimately be a Stanley Cup contender. That’s the job. And I think Mike has done a terrific job of it. He traded for a scar off. Remember, he he he’s he traded for Edstrom in the hurdle deal. Then he flipped Edstrom to get a scar off a number one goalie, and we we know that he’s been really good. You get Dickinson on the blue line. You got Will Smith, of course, you have Mlin Celabbrini. You have Eklund who’s really developed, and then you have this other group of players that are so good. I mentioned Turner Sev. I mentioned Musty. I I talk about this picket, too. I talk about uh uh uh who who am I missing here? Uh Bistad, Baststead, right? Like like they got a nice they got a they don’t have a collection of players. They have players at critical positions that are going to help them be successful in my view. I I think they’ve done a really fine job, but not a fine job. An excellent job of of building a team up, you know, after the after, you know, after it gets, you know, what I call the the clear cut, that’s a rebuild. They’re building up really nice. Love it. Thank you so much, Craig, for for joining us. Hopefully, we’ll have you uh on next year when the Sharks get McKenna as well. So, after jumping the lottery from eighth to first. Yeah. Yeah. Approve, but also in the lottery. Well, that’s how you get your 12 Mlin celebrities, right? Exactly. Thanks. Thanks a lot, Craig. Thanks. [Music]

The San Jose Hockey Now Podcast is sponsored by Bring Hockey Back!

Craig Button joins the San Jose Hockey Now Podcast to talk about the 2025 Draft! (41:39)

He makes his case for Porter Martone for the No. 2 pick.

But before we get to Craig, we discuss the San Jose Sharks’ pending agreement to stay at SAP Center until 2050. (3:20)

We talk about Egor Afanasyev and a hidden drawback about being the worst team in the NHL. Also, a mid-May heatcheck on the Sharks’ RFAs (14:44).

And does Keegan still want the San Jose Sharks to sign Mitch Marner after another Toronto Maple Leafs’ playoff disappointment? (25:34)

And now, Craig! (41:39)

Button talks about Martone over Michael Misa for the San Jose Sharks in his post-Draft Lottery mock draft. (43:25)

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/craig-button-s-mock-draft-new-york-islanders-take-defenceman-matthew-schaefer-at-no-1-1.2301304

We talk about drafting for need vs. Best Player Available. (45:50)

Could Matthew Schaefer drop from No. 1? Sheng brings up a historical comp in defenseman Jay Bouwmeester, consensus 2002 No. 1 pick, who dropped to No. 3. (56:00)

Thoughts on Anton Frondell and Victor Eklund, who maybe went lower in Button’s mock draft than expected?

Button is really high on Sam Dickinson, and thinks that he’s NHL-ready. (1:16:50)