Talking Jazz front office, trades, rumors, and draft with Andy Larsen of the Salt Lake Tribune
welcome back everyone this is the Hoops Nerd channel i’m excited today I’m with Andy Larson of the Salt Lake Tribune thank you Andy for coming on i’m excited about this we did this a year ago and this is my favorite time of year we did It’s always fun to just chat ball this time of year right like that’s that’s totally kind of what’s going on uh sometimes it turns out there are wider consequences to the ball chat as I was going to say I saw you got aggregated and I it kind of made me laugh you tweeted about well I got aggregated today and I just DM’d you i was like do you want to come on and just talk about that uh but thank you for coming on i know um some of the Twitter world and social media world we live in is crazy with the Dunk Centrals and the Legion Hoops and and then some of these other guys on there that I’ll be honest I don’t even know who these guys are they’re not even reporters but they’ll like tweet things as if they’re a reporter and I don’t know i guess I’m just curious what’s your Okay I’m just going to be completely honest here i thought it was so funny that Legion Hoops like they did uh they aggregated you but then they gave a hat hat tip to this Evans Cidery guy and I just thought like why are you tipping him that’s I mean it’s telephone right like so you know some people tweeted or credited me some people credited the Lock on Jazz podcast and then Yeah then you know some people credited Art because I think Art was the first jazz fan to like turn what I said on the Locked on Jazz podcast into a tweet that was like “Andy Lo this and then you know all that Mavs which I think is is that the SP Nation Mavs blog?” Uh or maybe it’s fan cited i don’t know which one sorry i’m not sure oh no that must be fan cited okay but regardless then they saw Arch’s tweet about Colin Saxon in Dallas and then now it’s coming from all that Mavs and then NBA Central gets it and it’s just like layered and layered and it is just a game of telephone right and so like by the time Legion Hoops tweets out like at I don’t know 3:00 today whatever it was it’s like the the Sixers are considering trading Paul George to the Jazz and it’s like well okay that’s not what we were doing breaking news yeah yeah and it’s just some comment was made on a It’s It’s just crazy to me and all of these guys want to be so fast because they want to get It’s We live in a crazy world i’ll just be honest all right well I’m excited to have you on cuz I have some questions and some of these you know you may not know a lot i know we were talking a little bit before you I was going to ask you about Austin H but it sounds like you have just not had a lot of connection there yet and don’t have a ton of opinion on him but I guess I do just want to get your perspective on that GM change like I cuz I I mean I’ll be honest as a a more radical Jazz fan that enjoys things like tanking i it filled me with a little bit of dread like are we going to turn into the Sacramento Kings and go trade to the Spurs and get De’Aran Fox or something like that or I mean I then I hear Austin H talk and it feels very similar to what we’ve heard from Danny i don’t know what’s your perspective on that whole addition of Austin H yeah you know I think it came as a surprise first of all you know we knew that there were being changes made in the front office but I didn’t expect them to be at the president of basketball operations level right like I expected either you know kind of the Danny Justin reign to basically continue with new or or different kind of talent evaluators or just kind of additive talent evaluators hired rather than inserting Austin on top uh as POBO right so uh like a lot of other people that weekend like I was surprised when that news came out on on that Monday and then I was actually out of town i I was in New York so I wasn’t able to attend that press conference and so kind of didn’t have the chance to meet Austin and and and in that space um so that’s uh we got like I’ve got time to catch up and I and I hope to like meet him and and learn kind of more about what those things are i mean I’ll tell you this like I’ve had conversations where the understanding is not like this is a wildly different shift in how the team is thinking about where it is right like but I do think like there is some uh recognition or some uh concern about how they felt last season was more damaging than they expected and then obviously they didn’t get the return they expected and just getting the number five pick so um I think that’s changed some some thinking within the front office maybe not to like go all out for it not that I I don’t think anyone’s fooling themselves thinking they’re like one piece away but I do think like having a new person in charge and then having this really I think uh interesting experience where like yes the number five pick was always the most likely possibility but I don’t know that they saw it in that way there was always that hope right like and uh when worst comes the worst case scenario happened i think it was legitimately kind of shocking and damaging to a lot of people in the organization especially at the ownership level okay yeah because I I mean and that’s just human nature you’re going to lean towards the thing that you want and if it’s a 50/50 of course you’re going to be like “Oh you know we’re going to get a top four pick.” It did not work out that way um I I guess I thought one of the things that was interesting about that because Ryan Smith I can’t remember if it was in an article or in a podcast or whatever i think it might have been Zach Low talking about I can’t remember but was talk apparently Danny was out of country at the time and and like I guess the hire was made did Danny Ang know about that at all or was he just completely blindsided the story is that and this was said in the press conference that uh Ryan you know kind of made the decision and then called Austin and was like “Hey,” or called Danny and was like “Hey we’ve decided to hire Austin.” And yeah Danny was uh not kind of involved in that decision i am a little skeptical of the story i mean maybe that’s true maybe that’s true i don’t I truly don’t know um it seems really I mean that sounds crazy right like that if you were a little bit like a little Game of Thronesy to be honest like the CEO of Jazz Basketball is Danny A who moved home to be with his family more and here is his literal son a son that he left to go hang out with more of his family back here in Utah uh but then they’re not going to talk about hey the idea like hey the Jazz might hire me as not just a guy but as professional of a president of basketball operations i it’s it’s hard for me to really buy that tale i I I don’t know if it’s true or not i don’t It just seems It doesn’t make sense given the situation I guess from my point of view anyway yeah i I guess I have a hard Yeah and well and what happened to me is cuz sometimes I’ll get a I got to learn and grow up i’m 41 and I’m still letting myself get emotional over things that I see on a dumb social media but everyone was like tanking is over because that was the big thing that that they talked about and that was the big headline and and I think Austin said after a very long question from the ESPN 700 I forgot Okonnell yeah and he says like are the to put it easy are the Jazz done tanking or manipulating lineups so they lose games and he says you won’t see that next year and of course I got like the just the dread of that i was like I can’t believe that we’re gonna like try to do this too quickly but then I thought after I slept on it I just thought you know what if there might have been a real gap here that the Jazz did need to fill and Ryan Smith might have really I mean no one’s going to know know better than Ryan Smith what need they have that’s one perspective I had and I thought after being in Boston for 14 years with Danny A I assume that there’s some shared views and understanding of how to build a championship team and I think one of those is that you just have to have if you want to win a championship you need a guy that’s at least considered a top 10 guy and whether you get that in the draft or trade you know like we have two teams in the finals right now that did not draft their best guy they found them through a trade um anyways I don’t know what the question is for that with that is that kind of Yeah I mean you’re kind of I think it’s interesting like to my knowledge they didn’t do like a Pobo search right like and that scares me a like I at least I think that’s maybe an opportunity missed right like you had the chance to evaluate to talk to some of the better talent evaluators in the league about where you are as a franchise and maybe you know hire one of them to be your president of basketball operations um if you just chose Austin because of your familiarity with him in Boston and because frankly let’s be real here nepotism is is a thing that is happening here like I am a little bit concerned about that now like everyone tells me Austin is great and I think has a good resume and the Boston Celtics are very successful um but you did have a general manager in house and you chose to hire an assistant GM over the top of it right like so I do think like you have to kind of evaluate it on those terms a little bit and and ultimately like what’s going to what it’s going to be evaluated on is how the rebuild works out right like if this doesn’t work and that the Jazz are in a rough place five years from now then there’s going to be a lot of jokes about the nepotism in in the Utah Jazz more than more than there even are now right like and if it does work out then all of a sudden yeah this is a a family business and everyone’s working together and it’s a genius move right like so we’ll we’ll see right like I I I truly don’t know i I think you know everyone says Austin’s a smart guy and and understands and is a good talent evaluator so you want that um and I do think that that was lacking in the jazz organization a little bit is someone whose specialty was talent evaluation like I think it is for Austin but I you know how this works out is really TBD and I think we’ll learn a lot about like his preferences and tendencies over the course of this Austin yeah and I had heard through some things through some people I know that like I think the at least under Danny Well actually before I ask that do you I mean he’s not going to say anything but is just I mean if I’m Justin Xanic I’d be like what the heck or maybe Justin Xanic doesn’t care maybe he’s happy where he’s at i don’t know do you have any sense of that um I like publicly and privately he’s saying all the right things right like he is uh and always has even when they hired Danny over the top of him again right like said “Hey this is additive to our team we’re just all trying to swim in the same direction.” Like all that kind of stuff and yet like you know this it’s human nature that’s got to be a a frustrating moment and you know he did want to run a team he was in line to run the Milwaukee Bucks before then he got pushed you know kind of again picked over for that job with John Horst um then came back to Utah and and you know got back to a good situation with Dennis and Justin but like I I I think it’s got to have been frustrating right i I I know again he said all the right things and it makes sense and and I I do think like there is a world in which Justin is with the Jazz long term but I also understand that if he got a better offer elsewhere to be higher up in an organization I mean right now he’s he’s a number three right hand so what does that mean you know for his real influence i I think is is is a question mark and that again we don’t really know like you know previously Justin was the day-to-day guy right like that was kind of how things he he was actually managerally in charge of all these people now like that org chart is less clear to me and I think a lot of people so we’ll we’ll see how it goes i I think there are some Justin Xanic people in the organization who probably feel less comfortable than they did uh prior to this right like so we’ll see again what further changes are made as a result okay well thank you for going into that because I was Oh I sorry i have one other What do you know about Ryan Smith and lottery night it was like I mean honestly so painful for all of us it was just it’s a punch in the gut i was a little worried when he goes and gets Austin A like I’m sick of this i’m hiring a guy that’s gonna do what I say or is it more he was just like frustrated and then I saw a tweet from him a few days later where he like kind of had this sentiment of like you know what pick yourself up and keep going i don’t know what is your sense of kind of where he’s at and what he’s thinking at this point so I mean I was in the lottery room right in Chicago where they Wait can I ask you can we put this to bed it’s not rigged no I mean I mean I I tweeted that it wasn’t rigged and I believe that it wasn’t rigged i wrote an article that it wasn’t rigged like I’m watching it um and then you know the the classic reply is like well like magicians exist and like you can do magic tricks on a stage right like um which is true right like hey maybe they’re doing some sight of hands that like every NBA GM and every media member there can’t see uh and you know the Ernston Young is in on it too and uh you know maybe but it just seems pretty unlikely uh it just was like bad luck i just I sorry guys and what made me so mad that night is like the most conspiracy theory friendly thing happened it’s so annoying because then like the people can just I don’t know anyways thanks for answering that well I don’t get why uh there are a lot of things I don’t understand about that but like then how how would you know how does Anthony Davis buy into this this scheme right to get because right in order to trade Luca Don to the Lakers the NBA guarantee the the the Dallas Mavericks the number one overall pick well how did they know to have Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving go down so they wouldn’t make the playoffs you know like it exactly it doesn’t make sense as a as a conspiracy it’s just it’s it was absolutely the worst outcome right like everyone in the league everyone in that room just groaned and was like “Oh my god.” Like I can’t believe that this those guys got it like everyone was super disappointed and pretty mad about it except obviously the Dallas representatives uh representative i guess there’s only one um but yeah it was it was a weird it was a weird thing for sure yeah and so I guess yeah back sorry I cut you off but that conspiracy theory stuff drives me crazy cuz I’m just like guys this is just not Anyways so back to like Ryan Smith was he in the lottery room with you no Justin Xanic was the Jazz’s lottery representative so I guess he kind of only Jazz World people was Justin Xanic me Sarah Todd right so Okay uh and so we’re Yeah in the room watching the it happens then you wait for the draft show to happen right and so as soon as the show is over then you sprint out of the lottery room and literally kind of run or jog up to where the TV studio is which is this big ballroom in a conference center right uh and as I walk in Ryan Ryan Smith and his family are kind of walking out and it’s clear like Ryan looks at me and is just like I don’t know some uh combination of pissed and devastated and uh lost you know like just doesn’t have anything to say uh and then kind of go on we’re looking for uh Jazz PR director Derek Arduno to kind of do some interviews with Jay-Z afterwards and and kind of ask about kind of what’s happening right so we run into Danny Angel we run into Will Hardy um Will Hardy like declines to do an interview which is obviously his purview uh and Danny the same and you know we end up talking to Justin and and get his comments on the record um but yeah like it was I mean everyone had thought this whole year like hey we you know this will be worth it if one or two things happen right and the things didn’t happen and then all of a sudden it’s like well we got to rebuild this team with Trey Johnson or whatever right so that’s uh it is obviously a hugely disappointing thing because Cooper Flag does change the the trajectory of the franchise immediately well and maybe that’s a good uh transition um I will say sorry one other thing i I it’s Zach Low was talking about it and I and I’m sure he’s talking to someone in the Jazz front office or ownership but just talking about what was the point i mean obviously Ryan Smith’s comes across to me as the one that was the most devastated cuz I think Ryan Smith from everything I’ve ever heard is very not very much not a fan of losing games to go after the pick i think he would much prefer kind of going for a big trade and and maybe I’m wrong if I’m wrong let me know but I think is there I mean I guess Will Hardy declines an interview is he pretty devastated by this stuff or is he more like you know what i’m just going to go coach and who’s on the team who on the team i feel like I would say like was less uh I don’t know it’s hard cuz like Ryan was there in the room and he put his wife on the stage right like you put Ashley on stage and like that’s got to be a it’s not her fault obviously but it’s got to be like a little bit of an embarrassing moment to have like that disappointment be in your family on stage for everyone to see right like Yeah um and so I think that was much more visceral for Ryan and like Will cares a lot like Will was not happy will was like Will more than anyone was kind of a victim of this right like the the front office kind of just I don’t know if victim’s the right word right like he makes millions of dollars whatever but like he would like to coach and coach as hard as he can and all year long he was doing bad rotations and sitting guys out and uh really coaching suboptimally in order to lose as many games as possible right and so yes like he was he was mad about what happened for sure i you know I think the decline to give a comment thing was you know part of a it’s not his place but also part like and you’re not going to I’m not going to be proud of what I say on the record you know if if he did say it so I know I’m not going to read Will’s brain on that i don’t know for sure but it that’s got to be part of what’s going on there for sure well and kind of okay now I’m going to transition i just that whole thing was fascinating to me and thank you for answering that i I want to ask so they say they’re going to play to win games which I actually agree i I do feel like the Jazz did themselves a little bit of a disservice last season where they’re they’re on these there’s like two teams playing at the same time they’ve got Colin Ston and Jordan Clarkson and John Collins and Lowry Markin and and then they’ve got all these young prospects that they’ve drafted and I mean they they’re saying they’re like adjusting lineups to lose games but that means you’re playing the young players to lose i don’t know if that’s a message that they love to hear and I know like that those older I know for a fact like John Collins would love to get traded to like I know he I know he has a house in Miami and he would love to be traded in Miami that’s not like I don’t know i don’t know if that’s crazy john’s more of a loyal more loyal on that than you would expect like honestly John is really interesting guy to talk to really honest I think like and I don’t think like when we talked to him about the trade deadline he and even after like I think he you know understood that it made sense for him to go to another place but I think like that first Atlanta to Utah trade like did uh shake him up emotionally in in a real way and so like I I don’t think that he loves the idea of being like a journeyman uh power forward on you know just a mercenary power forward right for whoever kind of needs his skill said I think he would like to find a home and was kind of like hoping that that would be Utah right like and this would all kind of coales and I think now you know he sees the writing on the wall like it just makes more sense if the team goes a different direction that’s why they weren’t playing him right but uh despite him being healthy but I I don’t think like necessarily he would like shout and joy about a trade out of Utah Tom i think you’re muted sorry weird okay am I back yeah yeah oh and love too is probably a strong way to put it but I you’re right i think like getting to a place where he can just play and win and I and obviously try to earn another contract is something I think he’d be fine with and that’s where I’m kind of thinking this is probably where the Jazz are going to go is I do think they’re trying to find spots for these veteran players so that they can go into this season and play to win games but with the player they draft in this draft with the young players they’ve already drafted is that kind of what you think they’re leaning towards or are they just gonna play everyone who’s on the team and try to win and I I agree i think that’s most likely um I think it depends uh if they can find replace you know spots for John and Jordan and uh and Colin right like I think Jordan Clarkson’s frankly just going to be a hard one to find a spot for right like he at this point is a negative contract there’s not any interest just because of the production over the last couple seasons um which is fine enough in points but everyone wants efficiency now and I think rightfully so because Yeah uh Colin and Jordan I think you can it’s just like where does the salary slots line up and how what players do you get back and does that hurt the Jazz long term more than uh just letting their contracts expire right so I think that’s an interesting twist and and something to watch for and it’s kind of always been the problem with with trading those guys um I I do though think like move finding a find that should be possible and then that is kind of the most likely option but I don’t think that they’ve ruled out going and getting a star and trying to like you know mo start the move up if they got a good deal on that on whoever that player is and that player could be a fit not just like in 2025 but in 2028 as well right like so you’re trying to get a a younger star who is is not going to be past their prime by then well and I and that’s something I actually thought about a little bit lately because we the the the line that got tons of headlines a few seasons ago was the big game hunting thing and I kind of feel like why is that something that we only consider like going and getting Giannis if you can go get Giannis or go and get the other the latest star that might be getable why don’t the Jazz look at that right now if they think Dylan Harper or someone like that at number two like I I would be much more happy if the Jazz gave a Oh I was like did I get muted i would be much more happy if the Jazz gave a crazy interesting offer to go get Dylan Harper who you would have under contract for seven years if you think he’s gonna be a star why wouldn’t you want to do that rather than go out and get Giannis who’s in his early 30s yeah I mean I think they would like to do that i just don’t think that San Antonio would like to do that right so from San Antonio’s point of view like the Larry Markin plus draft picks package for number two I don’t think is as interesting as getting Giannis for them and just you know taking advantage of WBY while you still have him right while you still have him and while he’s healthy right like you are a little bit worried about WBY at at 74,75 health issues etc like now is probably the time to press the button on on on that right so I I you know I think absolutely the Jazz would love to go get Dylan Harper that’s they would but and I think they would give up a lot to get him i just think that they can probably be if San Antonio decides to go allin i don’t I don’t think that Larry Markin and Pix is going to be the offer that for them yeah i guess I was gonna ask about Lowry Markin later but maybe now since we’ve talked about him I’ll just ask like how likely is Lowry Markin going like what was it 50/50 he’s on the Jazz next season what would you say i think probably a little higher than that um look I I think if if you do decide to go the non- veterans path um and just you know you’re playing your hardest but you’re not very good and so your thought is you’ll win 25 games and still keep the the OKC pick um I think you can probably afford to keep Larry i think probably more at play here is that because there are a lot of stars in the market and because Larry had a kind of down season last year I don’t think and because it’s a brand new contract I don’t think this is the peak of his trade value um and I I basically believe that like Lowry’s bad season last year was because he was trying new random stuff with his game and like I don’t think any of it worked but like you know he was trying to go uh he was trying to do more isolation stuff on the elbow and he was trying to just take more shots on the on the move and and like uh frankly just didn’t have any real threats around him to open up space right so I’m I’m basically a believer that Larry Markin will be the near all-star player that he was the first two seasons in in a Jazz uniform but for the league like they have to worry about that he won’t come back and then if he’s just the player that he was last year then yeah he’s not really a positive contract right so um to me it doesn’t feel like the time even if it makes sense like if you to just tank and rebuild and and go without any veterans larry’s tough because I do think you can just get way way way better value later on hopefully if if what I believe about his game is is true yeah and I guess it’s a win-win i mean if he plays really well then you could and you want to trade him you could at trade deadline then he probably has pretty good value if he’s not good then you’re probably doing pretty well towards getting your number eight pick and keeping it I guess and so um uh okay i want to ask you about the draft uh you mentioned a Philadelphia possibility which I I guess I don’t really see that as being that surprising i think Philadelphia is the one that everyone out there is talking about i mean and I and maybe I’m wrong but I think Daryl my is one of those guys that calls everyone a lot and to the point of being almost maybe a little obnoxious so I don’t think that’s surprising but I How much would Philadelphia be interested in being able to get off the Paul George contract in your opinion to maybe move back with the Jazz like if the Jazz said we would take it if we can move up i don’t know what’s What do you think about that yeah look I I think it is uh something that they would be interested in i think they would be interested i think like because he has such a big contract right like you have to trade good players back in return so you can’t just dump the Paul George contract you also have to take on uh they would have to then get Colin Ston and John Collins or Lowry Markin who like has value in his own right i think John and and Colin have some value in their own right like let’s call it a first round pick or two you know like and so to give all that up plus the number five pick for just a chance to move up two slots and take on Paul George’s contract to me as like someone who thinks about the Jazz like I don’t think that’s close and I don’t think that the Jazz think that’s close right like because that’s just too much to give up value-wise and too much long-term trouble for a jump between number five and number three where I think consensus says you’re not getting a different tier of player between number three and number five um now obviously the Jazz have preferences and who their guy is but I I it just feels like a lot to bet on given how uncertain the NBA draft can be so um yeah I think that’s my view and from my understanding like this deal has not like gotten close you know like this is this is something I’ve heard a few weeks ago and like just as like an offer that was made not like uh uh and discussions are ongoing right like it’s early enough that you know all the real movement is still to happen right like we’re still a week away from the draft but uh I I don’t anticipate that’s what happens yeah and I don’t know what you can even talk about in terms of the offer but I do think there’s a world where I mean cuz someone hears Colin Ston and John Collins for Paul George and they think but then when you consider the fact that they’ll be on expiring deals that is a get out of jail free card for the Sixers who Paul George did not have a very good season and it’s not very likely that he’s getting better next year he was 35 and put up a 14 per last year yeah it was not good and he has what three years left yeah three years left at $50 million a year more actually it’s escalating so like Yeah like you know if I have familiarity with any math at all and frankly any like thought of how Danny has operated Danny has never been the hey I’m going to you know sign up for the 35year-old and and and see what we’re going to build right like Danny trades those guys to start rebuilds i mean I guess he went and got uh Kevin Garner and Real Allen the first time and then but that was a good close team that had a lot of other things going for it right like uh I don’t think he thinks that the Jazz are are you know one or two moves away like that from winning an NBA title and nor do I think 35-year-old Paul George is 35-year-old Kevin Garnett frankly I think Carvin Garnett was at a much higher level when the Boston Celtics traded for him so yeah i mean I I it just doesn’t make sense from my point of view and it doesn’t make sense from anything I know about how Denny and Justin think now you know I don’t know how different Austin is but how NBA talent evaluators think they care about age and they care about contracts a lot you know like it it it just doesn’t make sense yeah and I guess the reason they would do that is to trade up to number three and maybe we can get into the draft now a little bit like let’s say the Jazz go to number three who would you pick i think I know who I would but I want to hear who you would because let’s because Cooper Flag and Dylan Harper are going one and two who would you take at number three if they did that i would take VJ Edgecom uh and I’ve done a more work on this draft than I have previous ones uh frankly because I was a little bit embarrassed by liking Cody Williams as much as I did the last year and then all of a sudden I was like oh no this is my my vibes approach is is is bad so I I went back to my basics and actually so like you you know this I was a math major and yeah my thesis was and this is typical Andy is uh deciding uh predicting which college basketball players would be good NBA players using machine learning techniques so this was I was like I had a a professor who was really into machine learning and kind of showed me all this stuff and we worked on this thesis together and it was really fun and like learned you know about statistical modeling and how to do this and so I was like okay I’m going to go back to my roots and try this approach again but like with 2025 machine learning rather than 2011 machine learning and um VJ Edgecom like all my models love VJ Edgecom like as uh almost as good of a prospect as Cooper and Dylan and and I think uh you know and then I talk to him at the combine right like and you hear his quotes and and uh and he just like has an understanding of what he needs to do to be helpful at the NBA level so to give you an idea like I projected off of um their peak EPM so I wasn’t going for like longetivity I wasn’t going for points per game I was going for estimated plus minus so trying to take into account both offense and defense and how much of an impact you have on the plus minus and and all that right like uh and I think VJ Edgecom has a good chance to be a very good plus defender and then like can expand his game offensively with the athleticism over the course of his career you know like I like the Victor Olipo comp i think that makes sense he does remind me of like how I felt about Donovan a little bit in that um Donovan also wanted to be a defense first guy believe it or not before he uh became an NBA player and then you kind of lit the world on fire but like when I talk to Donovan like he just as going into the NBA draft like he was so focused on just helping his team and I feel a lot about that see a lot of that in VJ Edgecom that I didn’t see in Ace Bailey uh or Jeremiah Fierce for example um Trey Johnson’s a little bit kind of in the middle there uh I do think Kong Canipple was kind of on the side of helping the team however needs be um but yeah like it was it’s interesting to kind of talk to those guys and learn about what they’re good at and then look at the models too and see what makes sense that’s a long answer to say at VJC no and you know what i think I agree because I I you know I I was talking to some of the SLC dunk guys and I was like what is the got that dog in him stat like like how do you find that and it’s really stocks it’s the steels and blocks combination and it is it is like I mean everyone will tell you steals and things like that are a very good indicator like when you look at BJ Edgecomb and you compare his steels to Cooper Flag who’s considered this all-world defender i mean it’s 2.3 steals for VJ versus Cooper Flag at 1.6 you look at blocks 1.6 six for for Cooper and then you look and well VJ’s on the perimeter more but seven but for his position actually by the way guys if you the site that gets that needs a little more pub it already gets a lot is Tankathon if you do the compare prospects thing it’s awesome but anyways I think VJ could be amazing and I actually do think like let’s say you know maybe you disagree agree get Paul George give give Philadelphia the five you can just let him not play and you just trade him until once you find a suitor i don’t know if the Jazz would be willing to do that but then you get VJ and I think the biggest problem for Utah is not necessarily the offense it’s the defense the last two seasons the Jazz have had the number 30 defense right and you need to start drafting guys that can play both sides of the floor i I don’t know what do you think and I I you know I think the coaching staff certainly feels that right like as much I I do think some of the coaching decisions pump offense and lower defense right like so the big one is offensive rebound crashing right like nobody crashes the re the boards as hard as Will Hardy teams and so you get offense rebounds and your O rating goes up and your defensive rating goes down right like that’s uh and he sends multiple guys in order to make that happen which means you get killed in transition by the way speaking of that VJ Edgecomb 6.2 rebounds Trey Johnson 3.2 it’s right he has got that dog in him is what he’s got and I would like I think jazz fans jazz management jazz coaching I think everyone agrees that the Jazz have a lack of dog in them like and the the prospects that they have uh are missing significant dog and this is I mean this is a conversation like Sarah Todd and Ryan Miller and we have in the uh postgame a lot is like which jazz players have dog uh and it is that’s what we say that’s what we call it and dog is do they have that dog in them we’re a little more Chihuahua than we are Rottweiler i would say a little like the answer is Colin Saxon definitely has dog yes and then you know Keonte’s got offense dog right like but has zero defense dog uh you know maybe I I haven’t seen I I think Walker has defense dog but not offense dog you know like and the defense dog frankly comes and goes with Walker a little bit like I I I don’t know who else on the roster qualifies as being like a tough tough-nosed guy who’s going to give everything they have for 48 minutes uh like we’ve seen in the NBA finals like if if there’s a differentiator between the two teams in the NBA finals and those that aren’t it’s having that dog in them and I and I I just think that the Jazz are extremely far away from that and I think that’s something that you know Austin even talked about in the press conference is wanting more of those guys um you know I I I like I like Trey Johnson as a prospect i like Conanol i like even Ace Bailey as like maybe not my guy but as someone who I think can be a good NBA player but of the players in that realm on that I I just think that VJ clearly has the highest dog the highest dog well and we just it’s you know we’re joking but it’s true though you like I was so disappointed i was I mean no one was a bigger Keiante fan than me and I had watched film of him at Baylor do some things and I thought this guy if he he’s shown he can and I don’t understand why you’re not like why at a certain point defense with like with defense like offensive like there’s just some and maybe I’m just like seeing what I want to see you know but like it’s just not there i just haven’t I don’t know why I I do think he turned it up at the second half of the year to from like a one to a three right and he still was getting killed a lot but like I I do think benching it benching him got through to him a little bit but then he stopped passing which is not what you want either um I mean he said in a press conference last year Will Hardy is the first coach ever to get on him defensively yeah which is crazy and like Yeah and I understand how that happens because his whole life he’s been a top AAOU recruit and like coaches get scared about you know being too hard on those guys or else they go to they move they go to another team and um and I I think that’s happened with Keonte a little bit um you know like I think I I I wish I saw Isaiah Collier care about the defensive end more i I I think he tries but is not uh an impact player you know um I think Taylor Hendris has the potential to be but if he has a weakness it’s that he’s not fighting for those rebounds and he’s not fighting for those steals and blocks right like he can be a solid onball guy but it’s not a team construct for him yet um Cody does not have dog uh you know it’s just Kyle does not have dog right like it’s and maybe maybe they grow into it right like maybe it’s just a body thing and maybe they will wait until they have the the strength needed to uh make the plays in order to become more aggressive maybe that’s how it unfolds but at this point like they are not making an impact in the in the moments that win and lose games and the Jazz lost the most games yeah I guess and I think you know it takes two to make a trade so I don’t know if Philly is going to do a trade unless and I I I guess one of the things that is so interesting is Daryl my versus Danny A or Austin A are they even willing to make a trade happened between those two maybe i think so maybe you think so i don’t think they have because we always hear about the rivalry like Pat Riley and and uh Danny A i don’t know if they care that much maybe they do i don’t know yeah i mean I I’m trying to think who else like you know like Elton Brands in that front office is you know I I I think like there’s got to be connections between Yeah i I would not I’m not that worried about the personalities involved there right like uh would be more in like a Miami Heat situation where it is Danny A and Pat Riley and there is long-standing and like very public beef between the two um but even then you have Austin Ames and you have Justin Xanic and you have again kind of the GMs and assistants below them on on the other teams like in the end like the the Knicks and Raptors made a trade even though they are suing each other right like I think everyone kind of recognizes hey there are only 29 other NBA teams out there there aren’t that many other opportunities if it’s what’s best for your franchise you have to put whatever else aside and do the right thing um okay so I you know I do these rumor articles every day not from uh Evans Cidery not from Legion Hoops but from like actual guys and um the biggest the pick that sounds like it’s the most available outside of maybe Philly it sounds like Philly is willing to make a trade if you’re willing to talk but the other one that has been reported is I think it’s from Jake Fischer is the number nine the the Toronto pick mhm is that something that you think I think if they could the Jazz should move up i don’t know if there’s a guy they love in the late you know at nine i don’t know what do you think about that i I I have no insider information on this so totally speculation i have not heard any like Jazz going for number nine things so maybe it happens but I I haven’t heard about it um my thought is I don’t I don’t know that I love who’s going to be available at number nine if it goes as planned um I mean I I truly just don’t know a lot about like Noah Sen as a prospect right um or I guess Derek Queen could be around there and I like him okay but it’s it’s a gamble right and so one of the trades that’s been mentioned around the number nine pick and in the reporting again not that I know of but just I’ve read on the internet like everyone else is uh the Yaka Purle and number nine for Kevin Durant and so Kevin Durant is different than whatever the Jazz can give so I I don’t think to me I don’t I don’t know that I see the logical fit there but the Raptors front office has done some weird stuff over the last couple years right so so maybe Yeah I was going to say there is a got that dog in him guy it’s Colin Murray Boils he’s that kind of comp to Draymond a little bit he would be fun but you know I I like Colin Murray Boils yeah I that would honestly probably be who I would take at number nine presuming have you run your stuff on him at all yeah uh he is he’s 10th actually uh you want to you want to hear the list and the current model which I think I’m gonna put online in the next couple of days sure let’s hear it so we got Cooper Flag one asa Newell is number two which is crazy um but he has some pretty phenomenal stats uh and then I think well he played at Mont with Cooper Flag he was a highly touted prospect uh yeah and and so I think that is part of it is like the RSCA is high and it cares a lot about like how high school players were uh considered so my model does and then uh like the the efficiency is good that the big worry with him is defense and is he a four five tweener and um I think that’s a real concern as I kind of look back at how it would have predicted past drafts like it also thought highly of Marvin Bagley for example who I think has similar problems um but anyway like that’s what the model says and so we’re we’re okay with it uh via VJ Edgecom 3 Trey Johnson four Malawak 5 Conanipple six Dylan Harper 7 so all the way down there but And that’s kind of interesting derek Queen eight Ace Bailey nine Colin Murray Boils 10 uh yeah that’s interesting which like honestly for a draft model I’m pretty proud of to get like Yeah that’s pretty good for on a stats only model and I guess you know it takes into account height and like I said high school rank but uh yeah like I’m I’m happy with that that’s Well and you mentioned that’s the other guy that I’m kind of curious about i I that you mentioned he’s at five I think common Malawatch um I really like him i don’t know if the Jazz would take him at five maybe but then for a workout today that’s what I was going to say they brought him in and this is something I want to write and I need to just do some some work besides just rumors for clicks I guess but like I just I do think there’s an archetype in the NBA that you kind of need to win a title and to me it’s that player that protects the rim on one end but then also spreads the floor on the other and you look at like the Indiana Pacers with Miles Turner the the Thunder have that in uh chat if they want to you look at like the Boston Celtics when they won it last year with Porzingis kind of doing that same thing i do wonder if that’s kind of a an archetype that the Jazz might want to look like look at i know they they every report is that they really like Walker Kesler and if you take a common malwatch then if I’m Walker Kesler I’m like well what’s going on here what do you think would it is that something they think about or care about i don’t think you can draft him unless you have a good uh play landing place for Walker right like otherwise you are just you know doubling down on centers when you have too many centers right like you I but I and to me he like the skill set feels a little bit high at number five but I I do think you’re right like I don’t know that I buy you so he’s a significantly less good rim protector than Walker right like he actually did a lot of his defending uh on at at the at the level of the screen rather than playing in drop does not have the dropped stats that Walker had that Rudy Goar had that you know like the the best rim protectors Chad Holgren had like he’s he’s not that good in rim protection despite kind of seeming like he should be um but I do think he’s much more mobile than those guys and and that’s kind of hope is you can kind of keep him out on the perimeter maybe do more switching maybe do more again at the level kind of stuff um I the offensive game I get I think is further along than maybe those guys were also in in college but also I think is from my point of view still pretty raw on the offense like I I I think about you know again how good Chad is uh how good like Al Horford was how good Chris Stops is i don’t think Milo Rock is there and so like I struggle to find like the offensive comp that makes sense for him uh to get to that NBA Finals gamechanging player but I I don’t think it’s crazy i think just in that case yeah you just have to figure out what you’re doing with Walker that’s why I’m saying I if if he’s at like nine which is not probably not going to happen i think there’s a bunch of teams that think this guy is I mean the thing is is he’s 7 foot2 he’s enormous if you’re talking about Wembeama as the guy that’s gonna win titles it’s kind of why you drafted Oster Tag you if you have a guy that can compete although you don’t want to draft him just it didn’t but he was a late first round but if if like if you love him and he’s there at nine and it sounds like the Raptors want to center I don’t know if the Jazz would trade Kesler to get to nine and take Malawatch and then maybe try to get something else from Toronto but that’s just a thought like it is that something and they have Purle you know like what are they doing with Purle in that case yeah I can’t remember i I think it unless they’re trading him for Kevin Durant and then Yeah all of a sudden now you’ve got Kevin Durant you’ve got I mean it’s a weird team but you’ve got Quickly RJ Barrett i can’t believe we’re talking Toronto Raptors i know sorry quickly RJ Barrett uh Kevin Durant uh yeah Walker Kesler Otagbaji kelly Olen uh I’m really stretching irons obviously hey this helps me i don’t care about them this helps me it’s a weird team but it’s a team it is and you know I I don’t know it’s the Eastern Conference and it’s a little more open and the one you know you mentioned kind of and I saw a rumor on silver screen and roll about Kesler and then it I saw you mentioned about kind of Kesler and that the Lakers have you know I have a lot of I have an interest in a lot of things it doesn’t mean those things are going to happen i and I don’t think the Jazz are going to trade Walker Kesler to the Lakers because they have the Lakers 27 pick but maybe I mean what do you think do the Jazz care about that enough because it will make Luca better um yeah I mean I think I think that is that play i think like basically I I they know that the Luca trade hurt the 27 pick a lot right like there’s no question about it assuming he stays in LA which hasn’t been formally decided yet but kind of everyone thinks that that’s most likely um I you know I I don’t think like Walker is untouchable i think they like him a lot i think the stats are great i do think that they have some of the same like onedimensional fears that like the Jazz ended up having with Rudy Gober a little bit um but ultimately they also know that he’s a very good player who’s on his way up who works hard who does all the right things that uh the coach likes all that good stuff right like and frankly is the kind of only good young thing you have that’s really worth a lot of value in the end are the Lakers picks down the road worth trading you know with those two swipes at it plus let’s say Dalton Connect are you going to get a player that’s as good as Walker Kesler is i don’t know that you are um and so that’s that’s the concern i I would say I it wouldn’t stun me if Walker traded instead of extended but I I think extension probably makes more sense and then if you are going to trade him I think more likely is another team that has more interesting young players or more interesting draft picks to trade and I mean before you go I mean have you heard number-wise what that might be if they do resign Walker Kesler no no not from the front office like and and you know the conversations I I think the rule is that they can’t extend him yet right they they have to wait until the I well I would wait anyway i don’t think I would be in a rush to give him a contract but I don’t know exact so maybe it’s a bad question but I I I mean because we talk about it internally a lot in our team just I mean are they going to give Walker Kesler 20 to 30 million and it scares me and I just cuz I think that’s fine i mean like he’s I mean let’s say I think he’s a five- win player you know like and that’s what those guys are worth in an expanding salary cap like I think to me the worry is if you get to like 3540 then yeah all of a sudden okay I’m maybe less cool with it but um and maybe you just let the market determine it to some degree given that everyone doesn’t have cap space but I mean he does a really valuable thing he’s uh pretty young like and got a lot better last year uh you know he should at least get like Isaiah Hardenstein money in my mind okay well that hurts my heart a little bit but he’s a good player he does protect the room i’m I don’t know all right last question you tell I’m famously very pro- Walker Kesler right like Yeah and I’m not anti- Walkalker Kesler i’m just like I guess I’m just ah I just struggle with rim protecting centers that they’re just that’s what they do and and I know we’ve and that’s kind of been our life for the last 10 years and it’s Rudy Gober was incredible and just so good at what he did but then also you couldn’t throw him the ball in the post and that just makes it hard and I don’t know but anyways last question so let’s say the draft goes uh Cooper one Dylan 2 VJ3 and there’s a surprise khan Canipple goes four to Charlotte which I think is the ESPN mock right now i think so and you know it’s kind of been going the rounds lately on other places too so Utah is on the board at that point i guess two questions who would you take and who do you think the Jazz will take um I would I think it might be the same answer i think it it’s either Trey Johnson or Conanipple and I think I’d probably just go with I don’t know i I probably Trey Johnson um I think the scoring upside is real i think he’s like a smart player i think he passes better than he gets credit for um you know you worry about taking another good shooter guy who’s not a great defender uh but I think like he has more offensive juice than any of the Jazz’s current young players do um you know which makes sense because he’s a top five pick and not you know presumably and not you know ninth or 16th or 28th or whatever right so um I I I think you’re getting something more real offensively than than you’ve had previously with young guys so um I do think hard about Conaniple like I think he establishes a culture in a real way that that uh Trey will not or at least works towards building a culture but um ultimately I think that also is set by whoever your best player is a little bit and or who your best players are um and you know I I actually do believe in Conanol as a really helpful future starter um but I and and the kind of player a good team should add um but I I get the the Trey Johnson thought too and and you know the model likes him well enough too so I yeah I think I think Trey Johnson I I’ve been waffling on that on that in my head over the last week you know weeks um you know Ace is a real consideration there too i think like hey I I don’t know that my model’s wrong like I don’t know that the headcase stuff is as big as people say like I think you can talk yourself out of good players but um ultimately I think to me it’s between those two guys and I would probably choose Trey i I think I probably agree i think it’s hard to pass up on Ace but I think Trey the question is the dog percentage is he 30% dog 60% dog i don’t know yeah and you know like Yeah i I think that’s a question like to me his like mid tier to bottom tier case is kind of buddy healedy in which like can score lock can be a really effective part of an offense and yet like pacers kind of did get better once they traded Buddy healed you know like um and so like there is some concern there but then I don’t know that the other players are so compelling that you pass it up right like so would you rather have you you probably rather have Okay yeah who would you rather have Buddy he or Michael Porter Jr here that’s a good question i don’t know if it really comes down to contract to be honest i Yeah right um yeah in a world where Buddy He’s making the max like MPJ is obviously you hate that like um and then also you know Ace Bailey’s now three inches shorter than he is not as big and I tell you what you look at the stats and it is yeah that’s why I’m okay letting the Jazz make the choice because that’s a stressful one especially with Ace Bailey on the board my gosh well Andy thank you so much guys make sure you go to the Tribune and and and get a what’s it called a membership or Yeah subscription yeah subscription go get a subscription andy does amazing work um are you doing the triple team this year yeah that’s that’s the plan anyway you know I think when we’ll do it for summer league too I think is is a fine i actually need to talk to my boss about that but uh we’ll figure it out like we’re doing one thing at a time right like I know trying to give me little games ahead and I know I’ve heard from Will Hardy too many times we got to focus on just this game just this that’s right well thank you so much Andy that was a lot of fun and you know draft is in a week we’ll see who the Jazz draft thanks again yeah of course thanks for for having
In this episode of the Hoops Nerd Podcast I was joined by Andy Larsen of the Salt Lake Tribune and we went over the Utah Jazz front office, nba trade rumors, nba draft rumors, who the Jazz should draft at 5. Should they trade up to #3 and who should they pick there. How good is VJ Edgecombe?
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4 comments
Egor at 5🎉
I would trade up to 3 I just don’t want PG, I really want Vj or Tre
Bro you got Andy Larsen on the channel 😳 and you say you don’t have any inside sources 🧐👌
This is like the great meeting between Two of the greatest Jazz Nerds. I would pay extra to see you add David Locke and Sara Todd and Tony Jones and you nerds just all talk in one room for an hour. I'm a teacher so it wouldn't be worth the money I could offer. But it would be at least ten bucks.