EP. 531 – Mo’ Money Moe Problems – Orlando Magic Podcast

EP. 531 – Mo’ Money Moe Problems – Orlando Magic Podcast

this is the Sixth Man Show an Orlando Magic podcast with your hosts Kevin Tucker and Jonathan Osborne covering all things Magic Basketball by fans for fans Go Magic What’s going on Orlando Magic fans you guys are back with the six-man show Today is June 30th 2025 Free agency is upon us Jonathan Osborne here as always joined by my wonderful co-host Kevin Tucker What’s going on
wow those are very kind words Uh not a whole lot
Got to be nice to you sometimes
I appreciate that Yeah Uh busy week Obviously a lot to talk about Uh we had the draft which by the way very fun doing the live draft show after the first round on Wednesday That was a good time
Shout out to everyone who tuned into that Um especially those who watched live We had a lot of people hanging out with us That was fun Second round Thursday Uh you know the team option deadline was Sunday Uh free agency is unofficially started but then officially starts Monday Like it’s a really really busy time but really really fun Looking forward to talking about a lot of it with you now Yeah the Magic officially declining or the news came out I guess that they had declined the team options for Mo Vagner and Caleb Houston $11 million for Mo I think it was two or 2.5 million for Caleb Houston The news came out like shortly after the 5:00 deadline on Sunday which obviously we will talk about Um but since the last time that we spoke not we spoke but since we spoke to you you watching or listening uh there was the second round of the NBA draft obviously which we will talk about Uh yeah the live show was so much fun We need to do more of those The algorithm just seems to like live content you know especially on YouTube Uh and I I tweeted this a couple of days ago It’s it’s so funny Kevin and I talk about it all the time how like transactional content trades draft free agency all that kind of stuff always outperforms like playoff basketball like the highest basketball stakes that there are throughout the year People just like hearing about this stuff more than they like watching the games it seems It’s kind of weird
Yeah that always blows my mind cuz in my mind it’s like well if you’re interested in the transactions it’s because you want the team to win games And so when the team wins games like the biggest games of all I’m talking like last year game six game seven against the Cavs or this year winning game three against the defending champs none of them got nearly as many clicks and views as talking about Even last year KCP signing KCP huge episode This year the Desmond Bane trade huge episode Even the draft we have the 25th pick in the draft Not number one not number five 25 and people are every just all over it And rightfully so I’m excited to have Jay Richardson but it just it’s always so interesting to me If if you know why that is Maybe you’re someone who’s just tuning in for these offseason transactions please let us know in the comments why why it is I just It’s not wrong
I’ll tell you why it is
Well I was going to say it’s I’m grateful for it I’m glad It’s not like a bad thing I’m just I don’t understand it But why do you think it is Jonathan it’s because people like the drama of the NBA more than they like the basketball of the NBA And that’s that’s a problem to a certain extent And I do think that the NBA is partly largely responsible for that and the way that their biggest partners in you know TNT and ESPN and the way that those partners talk and cover the league they and and they have picked up on well people want the transactional stuff more but they they really do the the game and and the the basketball itself a disservice a lot of times in the way that they cover it But just quickly we’re going to move on here but looking at our YouTube channel if you go to our most popular videos it’s draft reactions It’s the draft lottery reaction It’s the Desmond Bane trade Palo Bane Carol being drafted to the Magic It’s Jaylen Suggs and Fron Varter being drafted to the Magic It’s Jet Black Well it’s Jet Black It’s a Jet Howard and Anthony Black That was the name of the episode Jet Black obviously being drafted to the Magic It’s another draft reaction like our it’s KCP like the biggest things the biggest YouTube content we that we push out is just around like the transactions which is always very funny But speaking of transactions we thought you know going into what would that have been Thursday night was the second round of the draft The Magic owned the 46th pick or yeah they owned the 46th pick and they owned the 57th pick And we thought you know maybe the Magic will trade both of those Maybe they’ll use one and and trade the other We weren’t exactly sure what they were going to do but we were I think relatively confident that they wouldn’t use both of those picks Yeah And there were you know some players that we were hoping could possibly slide to that range Maybe if a guy that you like slides enough you jump up a few spots I don’t know that any of us thought that the Magic were going to be making the second pick I believe it was of the second round in trading the 46th pick which ended up being Max Schulga uh the 57th pick a 2026 second round pick a 2027 second round pick to trade up to 32 for Noah Penda a forward wing out of France And we were on a patron Zoom call in the middle of that which we always talk about like recording those in case something crazy happens Of course we didn’t but that was a a pretty fun moment in an unexpected trade and and moved by the magic Yeah the the move itself was very interesting because obviously as it happens every year guys who are projected in the first round some of them just inevitably slip to the second round because yeah it happens right and so there were a couple names there like you mentioned that we were interested in Um and when they traded up you started to wonder if it was going to be for one of those guys And then when they said Noah Penda’s name instead it was a name that at least I had heard um in the buildup to the draft A guy watched uh a couple videos about but I instantly saw you know wasn’t a great shooter and so I kind of discounted it discredited it Uh but that’s what happened Uh Welman got another defensive-minded player got another player with um good defensive instincts good uh wingspan good all all those things and a guy that has maybe some potential to pan out Um what’s interesting is and I guess it makes sense if you’re going to trade up for a guy you’re going to put him on the roster And so they mentioned you know Jeff Welman uh in the press conferences after uh the second round that he is going to be part of the team this isn’t like a a draft and not sign him like he’s going to be on the roster and so uh but yeah definitely an interesting move Uh they couldn’t be more different I think the first round pick and the second round pick Um but yeah I at this point like I don’t have any problem swinging on somebody at the 32nd pick Like if they really believe in him I say roll the dice and I guess I guess we’ll see uh see how he does
Yeah I think one of the first things that I saw other than the pick was like Magic fans reaction to like what they gave up right 46 57 2026 and 2027 second round picks Over the next seven years the Magic still have nine second round picks So it’s not like they’re giving up and now all of a sudden they don’t have second round picks But if it’s a guy who they talked about right they talked about Jace the night of the first round that this is a guy that we were looking at when we owned the 16th pick They talked about Noah and said “This was a guy that we were originally thinking we might draft with the 25th pick.” So um and then obviously Jay is there They they get their guy But if it’s a guy that you have a first round evaluation on that you really believe in you’re not going to use both of those second round picks for years like Caleb Houston is is really the only second round pick that like comes to mind which the Magic have actually used a pick and guy has as a second round pick is mostly panned out you know given his draft status We’ll talk more about that as we talk about you know the the do decline of his option today But um like giving up assets that you’re not going to use to move up and and get a guy who a lot of people had like a grade like you know in the like low to mid20s like a first round grade on Noah Penda So the value is really good and especially like it’s a guy that fits kind of the physical profile that they’re looking for and you know does a lot of the things that the Magic are doing So to talk a little bit more about Noah Penda 67 and a/4 without shoes 242 lbs with a 61 and 1/2 wingspan He is I believe 20 years old Yeah he’ll turn 21 January 7th And last year playing in the uh the French league division A which I believe is like their top division um in French basketball Uh he played for Leman’s Sarth and he averaged 10.2 points per game 5.1 rebounds 2.6 assists 1.4 steals just under a half block per game Shot 44% from the floor and 30% from behind the arc He does have good offensive feel He’s a a good like kind of connective passer He’s not you know when you you hear the talking about his passing with his frame it’s not like he’s like a 67 point guard or anything like that but for a wing whose offensive game is really still evolving really solid passer good connective passer has good feel when he’s able to get downhill like due to his frame he can get you know into the paint or into the rim and finish Doesn’t shoot it very well from three right now 3.2 attempts per game shot 30% But you can you can see like a jumper there It’s not completely broken Obviously there’s things that he’s going to have to work on There’s going to be a lot of reps I wouldn’t be super confident at this point that that part of his game is is going to evolve into him being any type of like real plus or like elite three-point shooter If he gets to league average feel like that’ll be good development for him He shoots under 70% from the free throw line I I do question a little bit of like his touch around the basket like given his frame only shooting 44% now you know the spacing you know in the European leagues is a lot different than the NBA they don’t have as much space uh to to operate um but defensively obviously right now is where you see the potential with him like the ability to you know guard you know smaller players get out on the perimeter he’s going to have like that versatility the ability to switch as well um and just has good anticipate anticipation in terms of like blocks and steals etc So I actually had to look through like YouTube clips because I was watching like the no appenda 2025 like highlight reel and whenever these YouTube channels put these highlight reels together it’s always so offensive focused So I had to find a video that at the time had like 148 views that was labeled no appended offensive highlights When I watched that I was like “Okay I I I get the pick It’s not exactly where I was hoping that they would go Um but this feels like a guy that they’re just going to be able to sit and let develop for a little bit
Yeah we touched on this on the last episode and you kind of alluded to it just a moment ago but it’s important for all of us myself included to remember this is the 32nd pick in the draft So we need to go into it with 30 second pick uh you know uh uh uh expectations
Expectations That’s the word Thank you 30 second pick expectations Uh for so long we’ve been drafting in the top five top 10 top 15 whatever And so just like Jace Richardson at 25 and Noah Penda at 32 we just need to you know be be a little wary of the expectations Um could he spend some time in OciOla this year i think that’s possible I think he he uh that could be somewhere that he’s featured But regardless I think look he’s going to have a chance to learn from Paulo and France Guy’s a little taller than him Um but Paulo in some ways uh the the fact that he likes to get to to the rim likes to use his body likes to use his frame to do that I think he could learn a lot from him he’s going to get a chance to learn from Jonathan Isaac one of the best uh defenders in the game with not necessarily a similar frame but but not too far off And so I think that’s that’s worth something Another thing that’s cool Jonathan about Noah Penda
I love that he’s going to wear number 93
I think that is the freaking coolest thing And you and I haven’t talked about this I saw on Reddit and I pulled it up here just so I could give proper credit to this guy on Reddit Here’s the rhyme for you C Vampet or maybe it’s French C Vampe I don’t know said uh for those who don’t know around Paris we have different city codes and 93 represents I’m going to butcher this but Sen Staint Dennis or Denise I’m not sure but that is that is uh Penda’s like basically area code zip code however you want to phrase it So 93 represents where he came from and so that’s why he chose 93 which I think is cool and plus I think it just looks cool Like when they showed his jersey show 93 I’m like that’s kind of sick So uh yeah all in all should be fun Excited to see him And um and Jace Richardson what do we say july 10th That’s another thing that came out The Magic’s pre or not preseason schedule uh summer league schedule came out Uh the Magic will start on July 10th Um you mentioned it Jonathan really fast The the Zoom call that was a really fun moment because we were on the Zoom call We knew we didn’t have a pick till 46 and we were just kind of chilling with our our Hall of Fame and elite tier patrons and talking about stuff and I we were talking about the second round and guys like I promise you this is exactly what happened
Oh you’re going to you’re you’ve got to brag on this right
no it’s not bragging It’s just coincidence cuz I said you know there’s certain guys that I want you know shooting you know maybe it’s Kobe Bray or somebody I don’t know a shooter right but then I said or you know hey if this is the time to do it and the second round is the time to you know if you got somebody you like a diamond in the rough that’s when you grab them And less than 10 seconds later Jonathan says “Oh there’s a trade.” And it was really cool It was really fun time and glad to share that with everyone I also wanted to mention speaking of Patreon
we have a new perk or benefit whatever you want to call it for our Hall of Fame and elite tiers We have been doing this the last couple weeks and it’s been great We’re going to do it now going forward Adree episodes So we are posting just like this episode all of our episodes to Patreon for our uh Hall of Fame and elite tier patrons adree So if you don’t like us hearing us talk about you know whatever Jam Hot Chicken whatever I don’t know why you wouldn’t like that cuz they’re great But if you don’t want to hear that or the bigger thing is maybe you don’t like the YouTube ads or you don’t like the podcast ads you can join at the Hall of Fame or elite tier and get zero ads And they also go up earlier So uh as soon as we’re done here they go up as close to uh when we’re done as possible Uh so yeah that’s another perk another benefit added So if you’re interested in that you can go to patreon.com/the6man show
Talking about the summer league schedule I have it here So July 10th and we don’t have any late games thankfully July 10th versus Sacramento at 7:30 Eastern July 13th versus Toronto 6:00 Eastern July 15th versus OKC at 6:30 Eastern And then July 16th versus Brooklyn and their 75 first round picks uh at 7:30 Eastern And then we’ll obviously see you know within the summer league tournament how all of that breaks out you know for the Magic But the first four summer league games on the schedule Looking forward to that We’ve got like what 11 days as you and I are recording this like 10 days as you all are listening So yeah
very very very much looking forward to that And then um yeah I I don’t there wasn’t too much like that was notable from the press conferences Just felt like pretty standard stuff Uh everybody made the joke about like how big Noah is and how you know how much shorter Jayce is It’s always funny like we talk like “Oh this guy’s small.” It’s like this dude’s 6′ tall like in a in an average setting that by no means is that somebody that is is small but u yeah just hearing Jeff Welman talk about how like the types of first round grades they had on these guys and the fact that both of them kind of slipped to the magic I did want to mention this about the Noah Penda move It does kind of feel like Jonathan Isaac insurance not anything that like is in my opinion he’s no like it’s going to be a year or probably at least a couple of years before he’s ready to step into that kind of role but that was really the only way in my mind this move made sense
cuz I just don’t like you’re making a big swing on him I just don’t see him becoming like this really efficient offensive type of guy and when you look at like the wing spot like you you kind of need guys that are going he’s not that he’s not going to make good decisions with the ball but I don’t know the offensive stuff for him just it feels for me like it’s still pretty far away
I could be wrong Yeah I don’t want to put words in your mouth but just to clarify at least this is how I feel when you say in Jonathan Isaac insurance It’s in the event that Jonathan Isaac gets injured not in the event of trading Jonathan Isaac and moving Penda up into Ji’s spot in the rotation Kind of both like in the event that he gets injured but also if Noah works out obviously the way that they would want him to in like best case scenario it makes Ji expendable
in the future right not But I’m saying not like not like we’re getting Penda now so we can trade Isaac now
No absolutely
You’re saying you’re saying if we see if Penda pans out I got you Okay Yeah that’s I’m with you then
Yeah cuz I I think he is in injury insurance from day one for sure Um and then I see what you’re saying Yeah maybe longterm Uh yeah that could work out But yeah that makes sense There were a lot of people making like the Chuma OKK comparison and maybe like the frames are kind of similar but outside of that I ju I don’t see a lot of of that
between these two guys
I don’t either Honestly Penda’s jump shot looks better Oh I’m that’s that’s bait I’m just going to leave that right there
Am I wrong i don’t have anything nice to say so I’m not going to say anything at all That means wrong All right carry We are going to move on here We interrupt this episode to tell you about Jam Hot Chicken who are proudly serving the city beautiful and bringing jams culture and hot chicken to the heart of Winter Park Listen we tell you Jam Hot Chicken is the real deal The best chicken in Central Florida Whether you like it super hot or you like it plain like me it’s great It’s tasty It’s the best stuff in town And it’s not just about the chicken It’s the pickles It’s the sllo It’s the comeback sauce It’s all the other things the fries It’s It’s all great You’re going to love it Check them out at 400 West New England Avenue Sweet 13 They’re in Hannibal Square again in Winter Park You can also follow them on social media Jamh Hot Chickicken or visit their website jamhotchickenickfl.com where you can see the menu and see their hours and all other things JamHot Uh don’t forget they were ranked number four in Yelp’s top Florida restaurants of 2023 Notice I didn’t say like top central Florida restaurants top chicken restaurants No Top four in Florida restaurants in 2023 They’re really good but also they’re really really big Magic fans which is why we love to support them So go visit Jam Hot Chicken and just let them know that the Sixman Show sent you This episode is also brought to you by Sir Sundown Jonathan Fischer Next Snappa Escoso Fresco and Santi Leon These are some of our Hall of Fame and elite tier patrons They went to patreon.com/the6manshow where for as little as $2 a month you can help support the show And then if you go into some other tiers you can get additional benefits like we talked about our zoom call that we have each month with some of our patrons We give them behind the scene updates obviously talk magic basketball let them know what to expect and what’s coming from the show in the future We also have access to our Discord community as well as we just rolled out to our elite and hall of fame tier patrons ad free episodes which you can view even before this goes out on YouTube or out on the podcast as well And then we shout out brand new patrons whenever we have them So shout out to Luke B Rome but not Italy and Jamal Miller Welcome back Jamal Uh thank you guys so much for joining the Patreon Again we give new patrons special shoutouts whenever they join So if you want to help support the show everything that we do head on over to patreon.com/the6man show And now let’s get back to the episode So yes shortly after 5:00 on Sunday Shams Trannia as well as some other outlets um announced and reported that the Magic are declining the team options of Caleb Houston and Mo Vagner or Mo Vagner And they’re already off of the sheet here trying to pull this up on I thought they were here on Spa Track but now they’ve been moved I believe the Mo Vagger was around 11 million The Caleb Houston was like you know 2.5 million something similar to that But as you know folks are pointing out this now allows the Magic to use the $14.1 million non-t taxpayer mid-level exception However they are still very close to the first apron And Bobby Marks tweeted out that the Magic use more than $5.7 million That is going to trigger the first apron which essentially is going to act as a hard cap for the Magic So yes the Magic do have $14.1 million of the non- taxpayer mid-level exception But if they use more than $5.7 million of that it’s effectively going to trigger the first apron and hard cap the magic They will not be able to sign anyone else at that point once they use that Can I just I just feel like we need to add like some people see the words declining the team option and think “Oh they’re gone Mo and Caleb they’re gone.” That’s it doesn’t mean they’re not gone cuz they could be gone but it doesn’t mean that they are gone If that makes any sense
Doesn’t mean anything definitively Yes
Correct The Magic can absolutely still resign both of them So that that’s what I’m trying to say Just because uh the team option wasn’t accepted uh doesn’t mean they’re gone They could be They very well could be and I guess we could talk about that but uh Mo and Caleb very much still could uh could stay with the Magic Just this the contract structure would be very different than the team option
So what are your thoughts on that i think that’s probably where we should go next before we talk about like what the Magic could do with this It’s it’s not cap space because it’s a it’s a cap exception that they have available to them Um but with that money that you know they technically can use at this point what do you seeing happening with Mo and Caleb well first the first place I want to go is like the emotional side of it Just in a world where Mo Vagner is signed by someone else And I’m going to explain something I think about that in a second But the two things that come across my mind number one I would be very sad right because I love Mo I think he’s a great guy a great locker room guy great energy loves the fans all those things That’s great So I’d be sad The other part of me would be absolutely terrified absolutely terrified to have to face Mo Vagner in this league because I know I know how the other 29 teams feel about playing against Mo Vagner when he when he’s on the Orlando Magic I know they hate it and so I would also hate it Um but in a very mixed feelings type of way So that’s the emotional side Financially okay let’s talk Can I jump into the emotional side real fast
of course
I will be actually broken if we if we don’t bring Mo Vagner back Like
be terrible
Obviously losing Cole was bad enough I have real questions about the type of locker room dynamic shift that there would be moving on from Cole Anthony and Mo Vagner both in one off season Different guys lead in different ways and have different roles on this team For me since the day that Mo Vagner has gotten here even though you know at this point he’s I don’t know what 27 28 years old somewhere around there Yeah 28 years old and he got here in what was that 2021 So in the like you know 4 and 1/2 years So he was you know around 23 when he got here You know obviously he’s grown in his own way Um but he’s always been just kind of one of the steadying voices in the locker room in my opinion of not letting guys get too high not get letting guys get too low And when the Magic are not playing to their standard he’s been one of the most blunt and outspoken voices in addressing that And man like I know I probably brought up the Vagner documentary way more than was necessary last summer when that came out but like watching that and seeing like just what it it wasn’t even necessarily about the number It was about him being in a place where he felt valued and appreciated And I know the Magic have been able to do these kind of moves where they like decline an option and then bring the guy back But it’s like how many times are you going to do that with this guy now he’s coming off of the ACL which the shrewdness of the business does give the Magic some more leverage in negotiations and I know we’ll talk about that and I’ll throw it back to you here but I will I think it would be a huge mistake to let Mo Vagner move on from this team at this point Yes Um to the locker room points 100% agree And I I will also add you mentioned Cole and Mo While we can roll our eyes about some of the onc court performances you could also add Gary and KCP to that right like cuz locker room wise by all accounts two great locker room guys So losing Gary KCP Cole and Mo all in the span of a few weeks feels pretty detrimental to me Um okay Money This is where it gets interesting because like you mentioned they have 14.1 million but let’s say they’re trying to sign two at least two guys right that means the first person they sign can’t exceed 5.7 million Uh right They can’t exceed 5.7 million or else they won’t be able to sign somebody else right if that’s basically how it goes It’s it’s the whole thing is complicated It’s weird but it’s the way it is So when it comes to the money like you said last year he made 11 millionish Um I just I got to remind everyone including myself before the ACL injury Mo Vagner was playing terrific basketball Very good Top five candidate for six man of the year And to some people was even better than that Top three top two Like really really good Really impactful off the bench and he was great the year before He was great in 23 24 Um and that’s one thing I appreciate about Mo He’s just seemingly gotten better every year that he’s been in Orlando Um so if if he were to have continued that but you know and not gotten injured I don’t think there’s any chance the Magic could sign him for less than um what other teams going to would potentially offer him But you mentioned the ACL that’s a legitimate thing Um we haven’t officially heard that Mo is going to be back day one for training camp We haven’t officially heard that You can speculate it He was hurt in December Typically takes 9 months That puts him getting back in September Um but we haven’t heard for sure So there’s a chance that he misses part of the beginning of the season That’s also a factor in this I find it hard to believe Well let me back up Let’s do the math one more time 14.1 minus 5.7 So that’s 8.4 Am I doing that right yeah 8.4 million So that means they would have they could only sign Moagner for 8.4 million or less So right I believe the way that it works because if they spend you know more than 5.7 million they are hardcapped because they own Mo’s birth rights I believe they can use the entirety of that 5.7 million on someone else
right and then go above the you know because they have the bird rights they can sign Mo to whatever they find to be fair and then the second that those you know pen to paper Magic are hardcapped in the first apron Okay
So yes they have that full mid-level exception If they weren’t going to make another move they could turn around and just say “Hey Mo we’re going to sign you to another $11 million or whatever We’re going to use the mid-level exception to do that.” that would trigger the hard cap So the sequencing of things is always what is most important right like you always sign you know the guys that you can sign into space or into your mid-level exception and then you resign the guy the guys that you can use the bird rights to get over the cap to be able to do so
I could be wrong about that I’m pretty I’m probably like 80% sure that that’s how all of this is going to work which I put out a tweet a little while ago about how no one can accuse Jeff Welman of not being as aggressive as he possibly could because in years past and I I guess maybe I’m talking myself into being a little bit more okay with this cuz there I would hope there’s some kind of handshake agreement that’s already been agreed to Um but in years past for the sake of just not rocking the boat and you know preserving continuity Jeff Welman would just kind of be very conservative in deals like this But this is like no we’re going to decline these guys We’re going to use every resource that we have available to us to improve this team And then if we’re able to bring Mo and Caleb back then that’s awesome If not like they they’re rolling the dice here It feels like a little bit now They probably know a lot more than we do at this point But yeah my stomach is in a little bit of a knot right now thinking about the possibility that Mo Vagner might not be you know a magician next year
Yeah Which which get comes to what I was eventually going to get to I I am absolutely concerned about that I think there is a world that we are priced out of Mo Vagner I really do Like it I I can see a team or multiple teams banking on the Mo Vagner that we saw before the injury coming back
who was one of our four best players last year
For sure For sure Absolutely And I I can see a team or two or three putting money towards that Um so I I think there’s a chance that Mo Vagner is going to have a choice to make Does he want to make a couple million more per year two three four million maybe more per year somewhere else maybe not a good team potentially um but make more money and have and have a bigger role potentially maybe even start somewhere or does he want to stay with his brother does he want to stay um as a part of this thing that we’ve been building and he’s been a part of for 4 years now um that feels like we’re right on the cusp of like actually doing something serious But I I think he’s going to have a choice to make And maybe I’m wrong Maybe teams are scared because the ACL and no one throws money at him and it’s an easy choice and he comes back But to me I it’s a coin flip at best Like I’m probably leaning towards I think there’s a chance Mo’s gone But uh how do you feel about it
i think I’m I’m confident that he will be back just because I I don’t want to live in a world where this front office is willing to disrupt the locker room that much Like I I I think there’s a fine line between we’re going to do everything that we can to like make improvements to the roster versus changing so much of what has gotten us to this point And I do think Mo Vagner is a big part of that And like this is going to be one of if if anybody like clips this and puts this anywhere it’s going to sound like the dumbest most ridiculous thing in the world But like to me I just keep thinking back to the Luca trade like Mavs fans like there’s an element that no matter how good or bad that they would have been keeping Luca they would rather keep Luca and not win a title than trade him and win a title And I just so badly like do I does every single guy that was at the beginning of this need to be here no But like damn does anybody deserve it more than Mo to be a part of this thing like when like you just mentioned we’re on the cusp of seeing where this thing is really going to be able to go And for a dude that was like written off by multiple teams was waved by the Boston Celtics ended up on this team before his brother was here by the way and like legitimately wanted to be a part of this when it was nothing Yep And like you take a chance on a guy and it has paid off in spades with Mo Vagner to the point where he was legitimately in six man of the year conversations One of the best bench players in the league before the injury last year and one of the four you could argue five You I don’t think you can argue any lower than he was one of our best five players last year when he was playing And I just I love the edge that he brings I love the fact that he is this irritant which you need guys like that in playoff series and there’s no guarantee that you’re going to be able to bring in another guy like that So I just think it would be a massive mistake to not bring Mo Vagner back I do think and I’m not saying anything profound here but the ACL injury helps the Magic because if you’re a rebuilding team you’re you’re going to pay Mo Vagner to come in to be what your backup center for $14 million a year while he’s in the middle of rehabbing an ACL If you’re a contender the limited cap space or apron space or exception that you have you’re going to risk bringing Mo Vagner back on that you know mid-level exception that might put you into the apron and hard cap you etc Like I have a hard time buying into another team like really wanting to go out and get him Now do I want the Magic to take that risk on him yes Cuz we’ve seen it like been around the guy We know what he means to this team and what he means to the locker room And yes he’s Fran Vagner’s brother We’ve joked about the Fron or the the Mo brother tax It’s not a real thing because Mo is awesome and is a legitimately good basketball player Yep
But I don’t I don’t want to do that in addition because of the fact that it would probably not feel great for Fron right like it it’s a it’s a lot of things to consider There’s a lot of nuance there But yeah I I mean I get it Like if you’re convinced that Mo Vagner you know you need to move on from him or whatever because of the apron situation and you’re just really trying to go all in on something So you’re going to bring in somebody with you know most of that midle level exception I get it But it is not going to feel good And I would just lean towards bringing him back
Yeah I first off yeah my preference is certainly to bring him back Uh I just it’s going to be interesting to see if the Magic are able to do that I again I just have the feeling that there’s going to be a team or some teams out there that are going to be able to offer him more and then it’s ultimately going to be going to be up to Mo and if he chooses to take the money obviously I’m not going to blame him but uh that would definitely hurt The other guy we got to talk about Jonathan I know he would be 100% within like the right to do so
Oh 100%
100% Absolutely He he earned it He earned it I was going to say the other guy we have to talk about a much shorter conversation a much uh less nuanced conversation though Caleb his option was also declined you know we mentioned it’s less than $3 million you know 2 and a half or something like that a lot of people myself included thought we would just accept the team option because it’s so affordable so cheap but um obviously given the cap situation which we’ll talk about in a second maybe some guys we might be targeting with that um was not picked up do you think he could be part of the equation coming back or do you think this means that he he’s he’s gone yeah I’m really interested in terms of how it works because again like everything has to be done in a specific sequence I don’t know if maybe you have to fit both players if like if you wanted to bring Caleb back on like another you know fouryear $8 million deal I don’t even know if he accepts that But let’s say you were going to bring in another another guard which I know where this this conversation is going to get to that when we talk about free agency at this point just kind of looking at the roster especially if you’re bringing Mo back If you’re bringing Mo back you just drafted Noah you’ve got enough forwards you’re not going to go out and get another forward or another big You’re going this team needs another guard So if you can fit Caleb and that guard within that 5.7 million I think at that point you’re still good to exceed that to sign Mo But look folks we don’t ever pretend to be cap experts This stuff is super tricky in my opinion
Yeah
this is a grown man doing his absolute best right now to you know figure out how all this stuff works But I would lean towards bringing Caleb back just because you know we know what he is Very cheap deal last you know 15 games of the season like shot the crap out of the ball showed you last year that maybe he can be the player that we envisioned when he was drafted here And at this point this team just like needs cheap playable guys
Yeah I would I would hope that the Magic are able to bring Caleb back as well And I’ll add respectfully it’s another one of those things If this team is healthy Caleb doesn’t really play right like if this team is healthy Caleb is an insurance
option right um especially considering you know and this is a much longer conversation for a future episode closer to the season but win now mode has the potential to mean a shorter rotation anyway And so the the the years of the 10-man or more rotation that we’ve seen from Mosley might be coming to an end And so um that again that’s a totally separate conversation we’ll have in September maybe Uh but for now yeah I’m with you I’d love to see Caleb back Um but if he does come back it’s going to be for cheap and it’s going to be more as insurance than anything
Yeah Caleb not coming back wouldn’t hurt as much just because like he’s not as critical to the product on the floor as Vagner is obviously And then I I guess really the last thing for us to talk about on this one is just what the Magic might be able to do you know with that $5.7 million And talking about guards like you’re looking at going out and getting a guard who at this point in their career would be willing to accept you know like a a truly like essentially a minimal a minimum deal like we’re talking you know $3.5 million essentially Like as you start to go through the list of unrestricted free agents it’s it’s not great And I I do think there is you know some level of difficulty of finding a guy that really fits everything The first guy that I want to talk about is a guy who Magic fans have been talking about for a little while here If the Magic decide to say you know what we’re just going to go like the full full mid-level exception or most of the full mid-level exception to sign one guy and we’re just going to go over that in hard cap The only guy on this list for me that would make sense would be Nquille Alexander Walker If that is the plan it’s still going to hurt like crazy to move on from Mo but I I will still kind of be able to see the vision there outside of Nquille Alexander Walker I I kind of struggle to see where like a move like that really makes sense And really quickly here I do want to talk a little bit about some of the first apron penalties because some people might be listening to this like why does it matter if we go into the first apron and we get hardcapped one if you make that move and you get hardcapped into the first apron you cannot get above that At that point it is a true hard cap But then some of the key penalties for teams that exceed the first apron Sign-in trades are restricted meaning teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-in trade if that transaction keeps them above the apron So you can only perform signin trades if they’re going to bring you below the apron Waiver pickups also become limited Teams cannot sign players waved during the regular season whose salary exceeds the $12.2 million mid-level exception And I believe that’s only if you have that that exception available I could be wrong about that And then trade matching is also stricter Trade matching and salaries at that point must be within 110% of the outgoing salary compared to the 125% allowed for teams that are below the apron And then there’s another note here that it says it’s important that these restrictions become even more severe when a team enters the second apron which is a higher spending threshold etc you know there’s a whole another like slew of penalties that come along with the the second apron So Jeff Welman has said multiple times like the apron is coming for us all Like this is what this team is dealing with and that’s why it’s such a big deal and why teams are having to get kind of so creative with what they’re doing with their apron space I guess cuz it’s not really cap space Yeah I I kind of want to ask you and you you started to answer it a little bit What it what do you do with this money whether whether it’s the full MLE let’s let’s let’s say it’s more than likely let’s say it’s the 5.7 Are you what direction do you want we we say a guard but a guard can mean a lot of things Is there a direction like an archetype cuz honestly like a lot of people say a true point guard and I understand that and part of me agrees with it but I also look at kind of the offball guard situation for the Magic and it scares me a little bit Jace Richardson not proven doesn’t mean he’s not going to be good He could be good but he’s not proven He’s never stepped foot on NBA Well he has stepped foot on NBA basketball court many times as the son of Jason Richardson but you know what I mean
Oh brother
you know what I mean and then Jet Howard potentially in that type of role You know I I don’t know But I also think again going back to the rotation thing there could be a world where Jaylen Suggs Desmond Bane AB are the three guards that play off ball and there we probably do bring in a more uh true point guard type player Are you leaning that way with the 5.7 or what i will just say at at this point it’s it’s so crazy like where I am with Jet because like this team is just like hey we’re pushing all of our chips in
Yeah if and and and again I’m trying my best don’t have 100% handle on this cap stuff if essentially like salary dumping Jet Howard in some type of trade if it’s like for you know a few seconds or something like that or if it’s another you know player that doesn’t make a lot of money if that would provide you with some type of like significant relief I would be all for that at this point just because I don’t see a path to him being a real rotation player with this team at any point in the near future barring some type of crazy development with his game Now I do think that I want a true point guard for that second unit because of the fact that AB right now is still very much like comboish I’m not personally ready to just give him full control of the steering wheel of that second unit I think you need some kind of fail safe there Who the idea will be that everything goes through AB but in the effect that like he doesn’t have it going that night he gets a little bit jammed up or heaven forbid he gets injured you do need a Cory Joseph kind of type on the roster that can step in and and fill that role So that is what I’m looking for in that second unit is a at the bare minimum a guy that can be a strong secondary playmaker help facilitate the offense a little bit has to be able to provide shooting as well one one guy that we’ve literally mentioned for 12 months and now is starting to have a little bit of momentum
It might be 18 months
Might be honestly Yeah A guy that’s got some momentum right now being linked to the Magic uh more now than ever is Taius Jones Uh a guy who checks a lot of those boxes that you just mentioned Veteran always always at or near the top of the league assist to turnover ratio Shoots the ball well is certainly expected to be within that you know pay range potentially Um yeah I mean Tyus Jones could be a great fit I think check again checks all those boxes Would you be down for Taius or do you have any other guys in mind taius Jones I think would probably be my very first pick Um I know you know if you’re a longtime listener of the show like we’ve talked about the assist to turnover ratio the shooting the ball handling the playmaking all of that really good decision maker Defensively he’s just not really going to give you a ton there Like when we talk about like an undersized guard he doesn’t even give you like the competitiveness of like a Cole Anthony on that end He’s just not really going to give you a ton there Um but outside of that like I start to look at names you know like does a a guy who a lot of Magic fans were dreaming about in 2014 does he finally come home to Orlando and Dante Exom right he feels like a guy who is probably you know primed for a little bit of a pay bump Um but I’m looking at guys who are kind of in that range this year You know there’s a Dante Exom Uh is there like a a Cameron Payne um you know a Monte Morris Is there a Gary Trent Jr right um or like a Lonnie Walker Like there are guards kind of in that range that you know maybe they’re not a true point guard but still give you like especially like a Gary Trent Jr not a point guard but is going to give you another guy next to AB who can handle the ball a little bit who’s going to give you a lot of shooting That might be another guy You know he’s only 26 years old Feels like we’ve talked about trading for Gary Trent Jr for the last three years I thought he’d be almost 30 years old at this point but still just 26 very young Probably a guy who if he just wants to go out and get a little bit more of a bag this summer probably will be able to do so Um I don’t love this but like a Spencer Denwitty like would that make any type of sense that as well as we’re just going through like the unrestricted free agent list here on Spa Track yeah Um a a Dennis Schroeder you know a Chris Paul like
I do think there or like a Brogden you know if he’s at you know this guy’s almost 33 years old now It doesn’t seem like he’s been in the league that long but I I know he came into the the league a little bit older Um but there there’s a few guys that I think could be options there Uh but I think Taius Jones is the one that for me makes the most sense Is it an ideal fit no But I don’t think there’s an ideal fit in this free agency pool
Right And again I’m jumping the gun a little bit because these are conversations to have in September and October I have a feeling that there you know how we talk about um kind of you know making sure that Paulo or Fron are on the floor at the same time or at any time I should say I think there’s a world in which next season Jaylen Suggs or Desmond Bane are on the floor almost every minute of a game
Yeah
And I think there’s a world where whoever this
two of those four sorry those four always should be on the floor
That’s that’s another way to put it Yeah you’re exactly right Um which again opens up potentially a guard to come come slot in there One guy not a similar archetype but one guy who’s been done well at staying out of trouble lately Maybe maybe Malik Beasley You can bring him in Oh I’m just kidding Is that too soon
way too soon
Uh just kidding I wanted to ask you though two names that are going to be the most popular Okay Obviously it’s Tyus Jones on paper looks good but there’s two names on this list that are very
name that if you say
No I’m not I’m asking you the question to start the conversation because this is a podcast You mentioned one Chris Paul the other one is Russell Westbrook Two point guards the two mo the two biggest names on this list even though they’re old there are going to be fans out there that say “Bring me Chris Paul or bring me Russell Westbrook.” And to those people you say what
chris Paul sounds like he’s like bent on staying in the West like staying as close you know to his family as he possibly can So that would be my preference out of the two I I don’t think there’s any possibility that that happens Russell Westbrook no thank you I I don’t like the fit whatsoever Y
doesn’t seem like the move I just No thank you I’m not not signing up for that I thought you were going to say Alfred Payeyton
Oh no No I said big names on the list you know Well before you had mentioned that that’s where I thought you were going because
some of the six-man show contingent has I hope they’re joking but has mentioned Alfred Payeyton as as being a possibility
Yeah Not for me Not for me But yeah it’s going to be very interesting And and what’s going to also be interesting is we mentioned like the timeline of it So free a free agency opens 600 p.m on Monday the 30th Eastern time I I h this is how I guess it will go I I am guessing that official you know officially teams can have conversations starting at 6 p.m but we all know they’ve already had conversations That’s just the way it goes I I think the first move has to be you have to sit back and wait and see what kind of market there is for Mo I think it it’s up to Mo and his agent to figure that out Um and then the Magic then have to decide you know h how that’s going to go and how they’re going to play it out or you know whatever And then after that you know although you know the order has to be different Like we talked about they have to sign the guard first But I I feel like maybe they have to wait and see what Mo’s uh market value is I think that’s that’s kind of how I feel like it could go but then eventually you sign the guard and then you sign Mo if you are going to do that Um but yeah we’ll see Or the other option like you said maybe 6 p.m tomorrow or Monday right away we see Nquila Alexander Walker just like that Boom full mid-level exception That’s it Who knows it’s possible
I can’t lie If that does happen I’m going to be simultaneously heartbroken and absolutely freaking stoked
Bitter The the definition of bittersweet
Yeah for sure
Yeah 100% crazy But who knows
more so bitter than sweet but
very sweet but impossibly bitter
right and then that opens up a whole other can of worms What do we do with our freaking big man depth because then it’s just shot you know if you’re going from Wendell to Goa some people say it’s great
I don’t know I don’t know But we’ll see Um also the other thing to note that’s very important just because free agency starts does not mean trades can’t happen Trades can still happen
And we talked about it many times on this show Goa is a very likable piece for a lot of teams and a very tradable contract And so obviously it depends on the Mo stuff Um if if Moe’s gone I don’t know if you’re going to trade Goa or not but if Mo is ressigned I think there’s still very much a world where they can make the trade So anyway a lot of exciting things to happen this week All that to say who knows we might hear stuff Monday night We might not hear stuff for another week It’s just going to be a waiting game and then we’ll see uh we’ll see what the uh the announcements are
Looking forward to that I do think once that six o’clock window hits
the further we get away from that the worse it’s going to start to feel you know about the Mo Vagner stuff At 601 you know the Magic signing so and so 602 the Magic are ressigning Mo Vagner and Caleb Houston
right all will be right with the world
Or even worse I didn’t even think about this as a possibility till right now 6:01 p.m The Sham’s tweet comes across Mo Vagdar has signed with fill in the blank other team Yeah that would be crushing gut punch Hey
Jabari Smith Jr just got his bag like an hour ago as we’re recording this What are we waiting for
it’s a cute bag compared to Paulo
Yeah What What do your paychecks look like comparably you know what I’m saying
you’re right
Sign me up for that Um
I was trying to gas up our boy Paulo but yes you’re sure Yeah compared to Paulo it’s it’s it’s small potatoes But let’s let’s just get that done Everybody wants to see it Just give the people what they want Um there was one other thing that I wanted to talk to you about Oh
for the the young heads who have not always followed the NBA we used to do this you know July 1st at midnight Oh here we go
And to me that was just the best There was a tweet today Somebody had tweeted at Matt Moore He said “I miss the chaos of Midnight Free Agency a true sicko’s paradise.” And there is nothing else that could be more true I remember I think it was 2016 when Aaron Gordon signed his extension I remember my brother-in-law coming over to my house like it’s now 10:30 at night I I think we went and got McDonald’s and we just came back to my house and we were like playing NBA 2K in the back room at my house and like just sitting there with our phones watching every single you know Adrien Wernowski tweet come through and like staying up until 2 3 in the morning I remember Aaron Gordon you know the extension news came out I literally went to 7-Eleven that night and bought a bottle of champagne
Oh my gosh And I if you go into the Orlando Magic subreddit you can still find the video I’m I’m 100% confident I I left it up You can still find the video of me popping champagne when Aaron Gordon signed the extension Popping champagne for an Aaron Gordon contract extension That is a new level
I was like 23 years old You know
popping champagne at any excuse you had That’s what it was I didn’t I didn’t drink it I don’t think Maybe I did take a swig I don’t remember But I had also never popped champagne before for anything
My gosh
So it was just it was a fun thing Are you looking it up
i’m trying to find it
Are you trying to see if you can find it absolutely I will
I will look it up and see if I can find it and maybe we’ll we’ll send it out I don’t know
If we find it we’re we’re put we’re tweeting it out for sure
Oh 100%
Absolutely We’ll see
Yeah I’ll I’ll go back and and be able to find it It’s a It’s a few years old now Yeah
I really It’s probably one of the first things that I ever posted to Reddit
Well I’ll be able to find it here I’m sure
I I doubt anything this week is going to be champagnew worthy but uh
No the Apollo that that extension is champagne worthy
Okay you’re right I was thinking more like free agency signings or Mo or whatever but you’re right Apollo thing is nice Uh but yeah Aaron that you you’ve got me a little shook over here Champagne for Aaron Gordon extension That’s a move I I never saw coming
When I say that I’m a sicko I am one of the sickest of sickos When it when it comes to this stuff you you can never I
I was talking to somebody recently I said you know there there might be fan bases that have more fans than the Orlando Magic but nobody has more passionate fans
Yeah
Our fans care just as much and just as deeply as any other you know fan base out there And I just I just found it right here
You found it Oh man
Yep me skin and bones you know after midnight popping the champagne
Oh my gosh
Yeah that’s cinema So I just put that on the YouTube video So if you want to see it you can go to the YouTube and check that out But what do you say we wrap this up
let’s do it Big week ahead
Big week All right that is going to do it for this one for Kevin Tucker This has been Jonathan Osborne You all have been listening to the Sixman Show and we will catch you guys next time See you Thanks for listening to The Sixth Man Show Be sure to subscribe on iTunes and Spotify to get new episodes downloaded directly to your phone If you enjoyed the show please take a minute to give us a five-star rating and a review It helps out the show a lot Follow us on Twitter Instagram and Facebook @ sixmanshow We’ll catch you guys next time Go Magic Let’s go Magic Let’s go back Let’s go back

The draft is done, the Magic selected Jase Richardson (25) & Noah Penda (32), and now free agency has started… kind of. Jonathan & Kevin break down the moves the Magic have made and where they might go next!

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