The Cleveland Guardians are finished

The Cleveland Guardians are finished

Welcome everybody to the latest edition of the Ultimate Cleveland Guardian Show. Along with Zach Meisel, I’m Adam the Bull. And Zack, could things get any worse than they are right now?
Yes,
they can always get worse.
Yeah, I guess so. A week ago, you could have asked me that question and look where we are now.
It’s fair point. Could be a 17game losing streak by next Monday. We’ll see. Or 15, 16, depending on how many games they play. It’s a rough time. We’ll try to figure it all out on the ultimate Cleveland Guardian Show. So, of course, you said a week ago, um, if we would have said that, uh, and things obviously have gotten much worse. Guardians have not won. So, I think it’s the first time in the history of the show that we’ve gone uh a week. You know, last year by the second half of the season, we were doing two shows a week because the team was good and fun. But, uh doing one show a week, this has got to be the first time that the Guardians haven’t won between games. The Guardians have in fact lost 10 games in a row. Their last victory was an extra inning win against the Blue Jays on June the 25th. So, it’s been the while. They will uh and they and uh what do they get for their 10-game losing streak? They got to play the Astros, who might be the hottest team in baseball right now. And they got to face Hunter Brown tonight. Actually, Hunter Brown’s going tomorrow. So, they’ll they’ll get, I guess, a little bit of a break before they face, you know, the best pitcher in baseball in TK school yesterday. And tomorrow, they’ll face a guy who’s been a top five, top three pitcher in baseball this year in Hunter Brown. Uh they will get a I guess a little bit of a break with the White Socks after that, but uh obviously every team in baseball, including the White Socks, the Rockies, the A’s, everybody, the Pirates are looking at the Guardians as a break because they have clearly at this point the most inept offense in particular uh in all of the game at the moment. Where do we begin? I don’t
Wherever you want to begin. Go ahead.
I I don’t know. I like people have tweeted us. Can’t wait for the show. Yeah,
hopefully you guys go scorched earth and eviscerate the team and I need the therapy session and I I’ve been racking my brain for 24 hours and I don’t I don’t know where to begin. And part of it is because we’ve been shouting the same stuff since before the 10ame losing streak because it looked like it was headed this way. um the things we’ve were shouting in December and January that have been
key reasons why this is all happening. I I I don’t know like if if sometimes I want to start with the players and just say that these guys aren’t playing up to their potential and then I’m like look who we’re talking about and then I think about the manager maybe not putting players in the best positions to succeed or and then I’m like well look at the players he’s given and so then it’s okay should I yell about the front office and all the the misfires that they’ve had and how they spent the money that they were given in free agency on Seawald and Junis and Hedges and Santana and Bieber And then I think about how perfect they have to be year after year because of ownership and everything comes back to ownership. The point is there’s just everybody to blame. It it’s it’s a complete organizational failure of a season. It’s one that I think a lot of fans honestly aren’t shocked by. Like that that’s the issue is is you and I feel like a broken record at this point. This team was three wins away from the World Series and no one is that shocked by a colossal losing streak in the middle of the season. What does that tell you that that that everyone was like, “Yeah, I mean, you didn’t do anything over the winter and yeah, these are the players you have.” Not surprised. Like, how pathetic is that after a season you had last year that we could all be like it’s believed that this that this is happening? So I I just what a precipitous fall and what a there’s two ways to look at it I guess. One could be there’s still, you know, 70 what, 75 games left, something like that. 74 games left. And so, you know, there’s a lot of things that you can look forward to in the second half, whether it’s young players finding their stride or their rotation or whatever. Or you could think of it and say, “No, there’s 74 games left. I’m not sure how much I can sit through.” Or you could look at it and say, “Hey, I’ve got my summer back.” And it’s still, you know, we’re going into the second week of July and
yeah, you know, you can go enjoy the pool. It’s it’s like, you know, there have been brown seasons where by November, I’m like, “Hey, honey. Yeah, you know what? This would be a good day actually to go Christmas shopping. Let’s do it.” Um, and it’s like therapeutic and cleansing of the mind because I don’t have to sit and watch the Browns get their heads beat in for three hours, right? and like go enjoy your summer. Go grill, go cook out, go go take that family vacation you’ve been putting off. Um do whatever you need to do and and don’t feel like you have to be glued to the TV from 7:10 to 10 p.m. every night because my god, this has been absolutely miserable to watch. Uh you you you summed it up very well there. Um, I I want to I want to jump on everything you said. Um, I think I think to me it starts with maybe I think a lot of times our expectations are built on this notion that things will just go well for the Guardians even though on paper it doesn’t look good. And that’s not realistic or a sustainable way to win. you know, I got on the Browns as we always do. We always rip the Browns. Um, deservedly so. I in when they won and made the playoffs in 2023, right, with Joe Flacco and going into last year, there were a lot of people thought the Browns would make the playoffs again. And I was someone who said they’re, and I I don’t say this to pat myself on the back. I love patting myself on the back, but in this case, I’m not saying it to pat myself on the back because I’ve been wrong plenty of times. But but I thought that the Browns would be under 500 last year and a lot of people disagreed. And I said the way the Browns won last year was not sustainable and it showed itself, right? And I think when we look at the Guardians last year, you and I spent a lot of time at the beginning of the season saying, “How’s this happening? How’s this happening? How are they winning?” And then eventually it just kept happening. So we we let that go. Why wouldn’t you? You can’t just keep saying that the whole year when the team is winning. But looking back now and thinking about the disaster that is this season, it really wasn’t it wasn’t sustainable what they did. Like they they mainly won. They got just enough offense and just enough starting pitching to go with a bullpen that was maybe the greatest of all time. Certainly the greatest we’ve seen in a very long time.
And because of that, they won a lot of one-run games. They were more games over 500 than almost every team in one-run games. I think they finished, I believe, seven games over 500, which may not sound like a lot, but I think the best in the league was eight over last year in those in in one-run games. And so, they won and they I I didn’t even look at their record in two-run games, but I bet you it was really good, too. They they won a lot of close games that they edged out, right? They played great defense. and coming into the season knowing that for them to get get what they did last year that they they had to have the greatest bullpen we’ve seen in a decade, elite defense, just enough hitting, just enough starting pitching. I guess we should have re should have thought that maybe it wouldn’t come together quite as well. And the bullpen’s still good. They still have a good bullpen. It’s still a strength of this team, but they needed it to be the best ever for them to have a chance, and it hasn’t been the best ever. It’s been good. It’s fine, but it it’s not good enough to overcome. And then you take out Josh Naylor, who’s your second best run producer, second best slugger, and you replace him with nothing with a with a washed up Carlos Santana, who’s I shouldn’t even say washed up. He’s he’s a serviceable player, but that’s it. You can’t they can’t It doesn’t sound like that. Somebody said to me I Jay actually said to me a few weeks ago like Santana’s numbers aren’t that much worse than Naylor are they? And I was like yeah they are you know it like okay so their home runs were close but not their RBI’s not their doubles you know. Yeah, one statistical category there wasn’t a big difference between Naylor and Santana. But Naylor is a run producer and Santana is not. His on base percentage when he’s 40 and can’t move is it’s not completely meaningless, but it’s much less impactful, much less meaningful. And then, okay, he played great defense last year. where you take out your best defender and again Jimenez completely flawed player overpaid all of that but he had one strength that really locked your defense in and so you traded your best defensive player you traded your second best offensive player certainly your second best run producer you didn’t replace them in any legitimate way and your bullpen not surprisingly went from all-time great to just good very good most of the time but not infallible as was we didn’t see any of these appearances like where Class’s gotten blown up this year or Kate Smith got blown up yesterday. We didn’t see that. That like never happened last year and that was not realistic. So yeah, the starting pitching is a little better than it was last year. They’ve had their moments but not enough when uh the offense barely had enough and went backwards and the bullpen had to be perfect and and and so we can’t, you know, a lot of times we’ll just say like we say, “Well, it’s the Browns. it’s going to go wrong. A lot of times we said, “Well, it’s the Guardians, you know, it’s going to go right.” But their neglect, I’ll say, and their inability for a decade plus to not develop or acquire legitimate offensive talent has all caught up with them this year. And this is the result of it. A a offense right now that looks like they should be playing uh little league and not the major leagues. That’s how bad it is. Yeah. I I So I think I think this systemic issue here, the thing that like leads to the tentacles that lead to everything else that we’re talking about is is ownership. And not even in a I don’t want to sit here and talk payroll like we we do that all the time. And yeah, like it’s it’s a legitimate thing. It’s a legitimate issue, but it to me it’s timing and it’s it’s also objectivity. And I’ve referenced this a bunch of times, but it’s I really believe ownership just thinks things are going to be I think they’ve fallen into the trap you’re talking about
where oh well, we’ll figure it out. Everything will be okay. And
and you know, this team doesn’t rebuild. They don’t tear down. They don’t do what the White Socks are doing, what the Orioles did, what the Tigers did. What teams have done successfully in the Astros case and what teams have done and failed and really set their franchise back maybe permanently. Um, you know, the Orioles are a mess and
y
like they tore down and lost 110 games for a while and loaded up the farm system and it’s not working right now and I don’t know where you go from there. So there are there are examples of why it works and examples of why it doesn’t. And in Cleveland, they’ve avoided doing that. U but what it does is it creates this this culture where the goal is includes a lot of hoping and praying and wishing and that’s fine. Like it’s hard to compete with the Dodgers and Yankees and Mets, but what that means is that when you get to that level, as they did last year, that’s when you put the the pedal to the floor, right? And they didn’t. And and I can understand if they thought well like they believed that the bullpen would regret would regress and that’s partially why they spent on Junis and Sewald which is a different question and just
in terms of evaluating players that’s a miss but um but they thought the rotation would be better and I understand why keep in mind who they were leaning on in the rotation last year. You know Carlos Carrasco had the third most starts on the team I believe. So, um, you know, you got to the postseason and you’re leaning on Tanner Bbeby on short rest and you’re really leaning on that bullpen and they thought, well, Bby and a healthy Williams and acquiring Ortiz and Sakone and yeah,
having Bieber back and McKenzie, don’t forget about him. And yeah,
you had some guys in Triple A. I think they felt like the starting pitching would help cover for what the bullpen didn’t do quite as well. the the the complete and utter failure is on the hitting side and to not, you know, part of the issue with the well, we’re never going to tear it down and we’re just going to like try to retool on the fly and keep keep winning 87 games a year and hope to catch fire in October is you run into this issue where you’re trying to develop hitters and you’re trying to contend and then you either get caught giving, you know, Gabriel Arus three years of at bats because you just need to see for sure that that talent’s there or you give up on guys too quickly and you know Yandi Diaz is in Tampa, right? So, so that’s what they’ve run into and I think their their record of developing hitters in general is super spotty to to be nice um or just completely inept to be maybe more factual that like they there is no rhyme or reason, right? Like some guys it feels like they pulled a leash on too quickly. Some guys like they don’t give enough of a chance to like why is Kyle Manzardo not playing against some lefties? Why is he not playing against some righties? He sat Saturday night.
Yeah.
Knowing he’d sit the next day against TKO because god forbid 39year-old Carlos Santana gets a day off, right?
It it makes no sense. and and the reasoning is cuz we we’re trying to beat the starter and there’s just there’s just there’s there’s I I can’t figure out what their plan is at the moment because their moves their moves don’t reflect a team desperately trying to win that night because otherwise you wouldn’t have a lineup yesterday that had Angel Martinez fifth, Jonathan Rodriguez sixth, Will Wilson seventh, Austin Hedges eighth, and Brian Rokio ninth. And also it’s not, you know, trying to get the kids up and get a long look at, you know, the long-term plan here with Delau and Manzardo and Cayis and whoever else. So they’re caught in between. It’s self-inflicted and, you know, it’s setting them back quite a bit. Like there’s a path for them to be a basically a typical Guardians competitive team next year, but are we confident that they’re going to make the right moves and take the right approach to get there? like I no evidence so far that they’re either on the hey things are good for 2025 path or hey things will be good in 2026 path
and there’s a very uh like the Will Wilson call up and place him in in the starting lineup yesterday felt like a real slap in the face to the fans and obviously there’s no intent there to do that but that’s how it felt and that’s how a lot of fans took it and they there’s an attitude from the organization Um, and again, we’ve seen this from the Browns, too, who have no business doing this, but you put up with it with the Guardians because they’re successful. More often than not, they’ve been successful. There’s an arrogance from the organization. Uh, you peeons don’t know anything. We we got it all figured out. And anytime they anytime they make a move that seems crazy to us in the public, you know, they could just they could just, you know, basically say, well, it’s analytics or whatever. and and and you and I are certainly not anti-analytics at all. I mean, we understand it’s a big part of the game. I get it, but um there is there there’s nothing that you can point to when I when every day when I when I tweet, why is Kyle Manzardo not in the lineup? U somebody will say, well, every once in a while there’ll be a fan who will respond and say, well, he didn’t come through in the clutch yesterday. He didn’t come through yesterday. He struck out right in a big spot as a pinch hitter. Okay. Well, that’s pretty much everybody in the lineup. I if if you look at this team and say who’s having the best season, obviously it’s Jose Ramirez followed by Quan. If you had to pick who’s having the third best offensive season, it’s definitely Kyle Manzardo. It’s not been great. It’s been very spotty at times. But I do what I expect a guy who’s a rookie or a second is he officially he’s not officially a rookie, right? He played enough last year.
Mhm. So, a secondyear player, first full season in the big leagues, all of a sudden he’s got to be come through as a pinch hitter. That’s hard to do when you’re a part-time player. And he’s he’s on the bench for for Carlos Santana, who’s, you know, close to being washed up and a bunch of guys who are not legitimate major league players. At best, they’re bench players. This guy’s supposed to be your top prospect. Why on earth when you have a lineup that is not hitting across the board, would he be on the bench? I would have him start every single game. And at this point, that would even include TK Scooble because what is the point of sitting him? Why? Why? What? There’s It makes no sense to play Carlos Santana. It’s crazy. And uh you know, well, Jose Ramirez had to DH yesterday.
I don’t care. Fine. Let Jose DH and let Man Well, but Manardo was terrible at first for a couple days. Well, maybe if you let him play first anytime the last two years, he wouldn’t be so bad at first base. I mean, give me a break.
Yeah. So, so the day that Manardo made those three errors, he was back in at first base the next day and Steven Vot said, “Hey, I don’t want him dwelling on this. I want him right back out there
to to prove that like we believe in you
and keep his confidence up.” Do the same thing with hitting. If he goes 0 for five, put him right back in there.
Uh the list of players I want to see bat is super short.
Yes.
And he’s on that list. And there are there are very few avenues where the you know they’re always balancing short-term and long-term right they’re they’re threading the needle they love to say and there are very few instances where those two uh motivations are parallel or or or they they work in unison. Playing Kyle Manardo every day is going to help you both immediately and in the future,
right? like he is a better option than whoever, Jonathan Rodriguez, Carlos Sant, like
any of these,
you know, the word I’m looking for. And
that’s also going to help in the future cuz you need to know if this guy can be a legitimate middle of the order bad. It’s the same thing with the Lauder. Like when he comes up, do I expect him to completely rescue the lineup? No. Barry Bonds couldn’t rescue this lineup, but I think he’ll be better than whoever is replacing. And so that’s going to help you in this this year and it’s going to help you in the future because he’s getting his feet wet, right? So it’s yeah, it’s stubbornness. It’s it’s having a plan and not deviating from it even though I don’t know you would think this is rock bottom and and you should like they they keep voicing like we’re not going to make changes. We’re not why how how can you not make changes? You know why? Because because again the culture that’s been established in this organization is one of comfort,
right? And
nobody fears losing their job, there’s no accountability.
There’s none. Yeah. Whoever gets fired, whoever loses a job, whoever gets mad.
Yeah.
Nobody.
No. It’s okay to be just getting by and and and um it it’s crazy. A at vote uh what was it after Saturday’s game when he goes, you know, we’re playing well, we’re just not getting the big hit. What? That
or the small hit or the medium hit.
I mean, give me a break. You’re not getting any hits. You yesterday your pitcher gave a Gavin Williams was brilliant. You You were tied when TK Scuba left the game and then you lose on a wild pitch, you know, pass ball. What? Was it a wild pitch or a pass ball? I can’t remember. There’s a lot of debate about that. Yeah, I don’t know.
There’s they they’ve lost 10 in a They’ve scored 15 total runs in those 10 games and six came in one inning.
I know. Oh, that’s crazy. They’ve they’ve had 92 innings during these 10 games.
Yeah.
They’ve scored in eight. Oh my god.
And one of those was the 10th inning yesterday where they had a ground out in a
run. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. How about this one?
Yeah.
They have two allstars. Congratulations to Jose RmIrez and Steven Quan. They are deserving. If you remove their production, the team, everybody else in the lineup, yeah,
has an ops of 610. Oh my god.
The
for those who don’t know, for those who don’t know what what that to give it, you know, the league average this year, I believe, is 711.
Yeah.
That would be 100 points below league average.
They’re they’re hitting 202. Everybody not named Kuan Ramirez, the hitter.
Yeah. in the league with the OPS closest to 610.
Yeah.
Is Azie Albies, the Braves second baseman. I think his OPS is 607.
I’m surprised he’s having that.
Well, Atlanta’s all their hitters are down here. New hitting coach.
Yeah. So, Azie Alb’s, there’s 157 hitters in baseball who have enough at bats to qualify, right?
Um and Alb’s ranks 150th out of 157,
right? So, the average hitter taking up seven out of the nine spots in Cleveland’s lineup every day, all the hitters except for Ramirez and Quan are equal to the eighth worst hitter in baseball.
That’s amazing.
I mean, this is like how So, it’s one thing to just assemble a lineup that just doesn’t work. It’s one thing to just be trotting out kids and playing for your future and and seeing what happens. It’s another thing to look at what’s happening and just be completely negligent and say, “Well, we’re not going to change anything,
right?
We’re gonna keep trottting these guys out there.”
It’s it’s insane that those numbers are just mindblowing. Um and and what I don’t understand about not calling up Delaw and Cas and they could tell me all they want. I had somebody um who I really trust in baseball say to me the Lauder um is having a problem hitting lefties. Like he’s a mess against lefties and it’s going to be an issue with the big leagues. And the same person said to me, uh, scouts think Kayus might just be like a bench player. And I and and you know, because they were tr because I was losing my mind about the Guardians and they were trying to calm me down and and I said, “Okay, maybe that’s true, right? Maybe that’s true.”
Del hitting 417 against lefties, by the way, this year,
which I don’t understand. So I and and maybe maybe they think it won’t translate in the majors, but what is the downside if it doesn’t? Let’s say let’s say that what this guy told me what is right. Let’s say the Lauder it’s a fraud that he’s killing lefties and the minors and that he can’t hit lefties and the majors and let’s say Kus in the long term is only a fourth outfielder or or whatever a backup player. What’s the like if if they come up and they both stink? Okay. Well, you’re in the same boat you are now. I mean what I don’t see the harm. What what is it that’s holding them up? What? What is are they going to damage the psyches of Chase Delotter and CJ Cayas if they come up now? I mean, if if not now, when?
They’re going to damage their psyches if you just leave him in Columbus forever.
Yeah. I mean, if you’re CJ Cafus especially, and I know Delawer’s a bigger prospect, but Delauer’s missed a lot of the season. If you’re Kus, you you got to be thinking, what do I have to do? and he’s got to be looking at these guys, the all these other guys that have come up and down a bunch of times and done nothing in the big leagues. And if I’m him, I’m pissed off right now. I’m like, why don’t I get a shot? I’ve killed it all year.
Yeah.
And they don’t give me an opportunity. I I I just don’t I don’t get it. Kay, I think, is just going to be they dump Santana and Kay plays splits first base and DH with Menardo. I I I know he’s been playing some outfield. But I I I had heard that it is certainly a work in progress.
Sure.
Um and they much prefer him at first, but okay, fine. Whatever. Delotter, there’s no excuse. It it is truly just sticking to a plan that they had set up for his building up the endurance and he’s playing four games in a row now. But there’s again, I understand at the beginning they wanted the controlled environment. They wanted to be able to pull him midame if he’s sore. they wanted to be able to keep him out, you know, cuddle him basically, and they didn’t want to cuddle him in the major leagues, but they’re that’s not where they’re at anymore.
And if you get to a point in the major leagues where it’s like, hey, this guy like he’s struggling to play back to backs cuz his body’s not holding up or something, well then one, you you you should have maybe scouted this better, like knowing that this was going to be an issue, or two, then you put him on the injured list or you send him back to Triple A. But I I just don’t understand how the answer to how like this isn’t just a team struggling. This is just who they are. And I don’t understand how you see this and just you just don’t do anything, right? It’s not like any of these guys did anything last year. I mean, except for Fry, you know? Is there anybody in the lineup who you’re just like I cannot wrap my head around the fact that this guy’s not hitting?
No. Zero. Nobody.
Right.
That’s that’s literally that’s just that’s the bottom line.
The only guy in the lineup that I thought would be good and but again I’m not surprised, you know, it’s not like a shock that he’s not is Nolan Jones. I I was high on Nolan Jones. I thought he was going to be good. He hasn’t been, but I’m certainly not shocked that he that he isn’t because he wasn’t good last year. I thought last year was an anomaly and I thought he was going to be a good player and it’s starting to look like I was wrong. Fine. Okay. None of the other guys have shown you anything. I mean, again, David Fry, I didn’t expect him to I thought the first half of last year was an anomaly. And again, I don’t expect him to be this bad. Like, I expect him to be uh, you know, at least a part-time type of player. But, uh, you know, he’s I I don’t He’s a disaster. I mean, it’s just It’s not bad. It’s historically bad as you pointed out. I mean, for them to the average of the rest of their guys be, you know, amongst the league worst players in the league. You can’t compete that way. It’s impossible. You you you’re you’re you can’t compete when seven spots, and I’m going to say only six because when Menardo plays, I don’t think it’s seven. When you have six spots in the lineup that are essentially zeros, negative guys, negative value on offense, you just you can’t win that way. All right, before we continue, we got a message from FanDuel coming up in a second. But first, I got to talk to you about game time, folks. Um, love game time and you will, too. If you’ve ever decided at the last minute to head to a ball game with friends or family, maybe it’s a game day and you suddenly realize you want to be in the stands, that’s exactly where game time comes in. It’s the easiest way to grab last minute tickets without the stress. With the money you save on tickets, you can splurge on food, drinks, merch, or even invite a bigger group to come with you. Game time makes it possible. Game time makes buying tickets fast and simple. Prices on the app actually drop the closer you get to first pitch. And they’ve got incredible lastminute deal deals, clear seat views, and a lowest price guarantee that takes the worry out of buying. Game time is the official ticketing partner of Locked on MLB, making it easy to browse the app for exciting upcoming MLB games, including the uh the Guardians taking on the Astros and the White Socks. Game Time has last minute deal uh last minute tickets and zone deals for big savings like 10% off exclusive zone deals for FIFA Club World matches, World Cup matches. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, and use the code locked on NFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem the code locked on NFL. L O C K D O N L for $20 off. Download the Game Time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. All right, we go from Game Time Zack to FanDuel. Yeah. Yeah. This uh these jokes are going to write themselves here in a minute.
Yes. Oh yeah.
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I don’t know what it could be. Uh, but FanDuel is the perfect place to to try it out or or looking ahead to the NFL season. College football, it’s all right around the corner. It’s almost here, thankfully, mercifully. If you’re new to FanDuel, new customers can bet just $5 and get $150 in bonus bets if your first bet wins. Open the FanDuel app today or visit fanuel.com/uss to get started. boy took a lot of restraint, not to mention a certain pitcher.
Yeah, I I don’t blame you. Uh, all right. Well, let’s leave it there. FanDuel. Um, we got a lot of comments from the fans. We got a lot of people watching the show. Uh, before we get to the fan comments, uh, you know, obviously we’ve talked a lot about the team. We’ve talked a lot about the front office. How are you feeling about the front office? Like I I feel like they they should be I right now I feel like they should be on the hot seat that they’ve got this trade deadline and this off season to write the ship. And if it doesn’t have I know there’s a lot of fans that want him gone. And I I I have a lot of respect for Chris Anthony and Mike Chernoff. It doesn’t give me any pleasure to say I think they’re doing a crappy job the last few years. Um, but I think for and for the first time in in 15 years, I think they should absolutely be on the hot seat and if they can’t get it turned around this off season and I’m not, you know, yes, the owner sucks and he doesn’t spend enough money and he doesn’t care about winning and he doesn’t put his foot on the gas and it pisses me off and it pisses the fans off, but the front office has known this and that’s within that they have failed miserably. when you when you when you don’t have the resources other teams do and they love to tell you every time Mike Chernoff and every time Chris Antonetti is on an doing an interview, they love to tell you they’re a small market team. They love it. Love it. It’s a built-in excuse, but that’s [ __ ] I’m sick of that. So, if they can’t get the the ship writed, and I don’t know that they can to me, uh they’re gone next year. And maybe it’s crazy to say, well, next year, I don’t know, should should you just fire them now? I I want to give them, and maybe I’m stupid, but I want to give them one more off seasonason, one more deadline, one more off seasonason to turn this around. And if they can’t, to me, they should be fired next year. They should absolutely be on the hot seat. And um and and and the fact that I I don’t think they will be, it just is why the organization is where it is right now. Yeah.
Say you. I I struggle with this one because I think there’s a lot of things tied together and I don’t have all the information, right? So, there’s going to be a change in ownership at some point in the near to mid future, right? So, I have no idea anything about David Blitzer. I don’t I don’t like
Does he like long walks on the beach? Does he want to spend money? Does he is he going to fire people like Dan Gilbert used to? Like I have no idea what this guy’s preferences are in in how to run an organization and I also don’t know exactly when he’s taking over cuz there’s some decision dates and stuff and like been digging in on that. But um there’s also a CBA that’s coming up that I know we hype this up and say oh there could be big changes every 5 years.
Yeah.
There never are. Uh, but this one has the entire industry scared and certain that there’s going to be a work stoppage. And so I do wonder what things look like on the other side. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that you should just wait and not do anything until 2027. Uh, because I think a big problem with this organization has been they never show a sense of urgency.
That’s right. Um, you know, I think a big miss in bowl, we talked about this on on the big show last week, but Chris Valica went and joined Terry Francona in Cincinnati and you had a chance to completely redesign and rethink your hitting pipeline from the major leagues on down. you had a chance to go outside the organization and find someone who has been a part of a successful operation, whether it’s the Rays or the Dodgers or the Brewers or whoever.
Yeah.
And come to Cleveland and come run our thing. And in Cleveland, you have job security and you have an innovative organization and a collaborative culture and all these things, blah blah blah. And instead, they hired internally and they hired a guy who had never done it. And I don’t want to put this all on Grant Frink because I never want to put everything all on a hitting coach or a pitching coach, just like I never want to give, as great as I think Carl Willis is and like could be a if pitching coaches could make the Hall of Fame, he’d have a great case, right? I mean, they can, but like I I
Yeah,
they never will, but he’d have a great case. Five Sai Young winners, like maybe the face of the Cleveland pitching factory operation, but it’s not all because of him, right? and he doesn’t want all the credit.
So, I don’t I don’t know how to assign like that’s why I struggle here. That’s why I open the show saying like this person’s to blame. This
department is to blame. This owner’s to blame. And it’s like it it you can spread it around, but they just haven’t. They’ve been praised for their collaborative culture so much for so many years that I think it almost becomes a negative where you’re not hearing outside voices, right? you’re not bringing new people into the organization to like shake the boat up a little bit and it’s not working. Like we talked about the lack of hitting development.
Again, right field and center field have been a problem for more than a decade.
Yes.
And so they are just so slow to address things. And that’s whether you’re talking about a 10-ame losing streak with a lineup that everybody in Ohio can see is not quality or years and years of failing to develop hitting prospects. They had a team that was three wins away from the World Series. They had the number one pick last year. They surpassed 2 million in attendance for the first time since 2017. They had it all. They had new renovations that they were unveiling. come check out the the new stuff at the ballpark.
Like they they had it on a tea for them this year
and they got up there and they weren’t even blindfolded and they swung like they had they were 16 beers deep and completely whiffed. And so a and you’re right in that like there have been misfires, you know, Junior Commonro trade, the the Miles Straw trade, the fact that a lot of people were praising them for getting off Andre Simenez’s contract, which they handed out. A lot of people were commending them for getting rid of Miles Straw’s contract, which they handed out.
Yeah. So, yeah, it’s been a rough few years, and I I think I I need to know a lot more. I need to know their plan to get back to prominence in 2026. Not in 2028 when Jose Ramirez is doing his farewell tour. Not in 2027 when Steven Quan is on the doorstep of free agency. I need to know their plan to get back to to restoring fans confidence in them by the end of the season so that fans can be excited about 2026 and you can start that path back to the good place you were in a year ago. Um, I need to know that. I need to know the ownership’s plans. I need to know what this might look like after 2026. Uh, and then I need to think long and hard about just the way the organization operates and if it if it’s the way they should. Like I I don’t know. We have no evidence that it’s, you know, you haven’t won the big one. So, you know, there’s there’s at least a little evidence against it. And winning staying competitive is is that’s admirable, right? like they’re they’re usually in the thick of things and as you said like we tend to give them the benefit of the doubt but they’re really testing even their staunchest supporters.
Yes, they are.
Um and
they have lost that Zach. They’ve lost that benefit of the doubt. There used to be from all of us we’d be like Anthony’s good. Like Anthony and Chernov, they they got it covered. And that has been waning over the even with the good season last year. To me, it’s been waning in recent years with their moves. And it’s all come to a head right now because the dieards, as we talked about last week, the diehards, the one that live, eat, sleep, breathe baseball, those fans are that have often defended the owner and defended the front office. They’re they’re fed up. And there’s a lot of the the the casual fans don’t care. The casual fans are now apathetic. they’re the second Browns training camp starts or maybe through the trade deadline because of you know we’ll see what the Guardians do in terms of the trade deadline and we’re not going to have time to talk about that today. We’ll talk about it next week because they’re absolutely sellers. The question is who who will they sell but once August 1 passes that’s it. I mean those people are not paying attention to the Guardians and I don’t blame them
this year. How could you? Right.
No. And and that’s that’s the thing. You eroded just you were in the honeymoon phase and then you got divorced like 10 minutes after you got home from your vacation. All right, let me let’s get some fan comments.
There’s a lot of them. We’ll try to get to as many as we can. All right. Uh Evan 419 says, “Shout out to my butcher.” Thank you, Evan. My butcher will appreciate that. Buckeye guy, Cleveland sports is so depressing right now. Hard to watch this show when nothing is going right. H well, we we’re glad you were here anyway, Buckeye guy. It is depressing, but uh you know what are you going to do? Um Eddie says, “Seems like once they knew the season was over, they wanted to try for a better draft pick next year.” Um Yeah. Well,
so like if you knew nothing about their situation,
Yeah. Yeah. And you looked at the lineup they were trotting out every night and their refusal to call up promising prospects. Would you think they’re tanking?
Yes. Yes. 100 100%. Uh Ahmed says, “I think we out hit the Tigers in every game and still lost. Certainly the first two games. Not 100% sure about I mean the Tigers went nuts in the 10th inning. They had two home runs yesterday.” Um
on Thursday they allowed one run on three hits in 10 innings against the Cubs. They lost on Friday. Two runs on seven hits against the Tigers. They lost Saturday. One run on two hits against the Tigers. They lost Sunday. One run on one hit through nine innings against the Tigers and they lost.
What are the odds got to be of losing? If if you told somebody just those numbers that you gave, you would assume the team went 4-0 at the very least three and one. Something went crazy. They went two and two. Nobody in a million years could possibly think they went 0 and4 in that circumstance. Kate Smith had allowed one home run in the regular season his career
and then he allows two opposite field to to a left-handed hitter. Like just weird stuff’s going on.
Uh Brendan says, “The front office let the season die. Fans wanted to call up the young guys to get some life in this team. The front office instead rolled with the same lineups and now the season is over.” Evan419, shout out to Detroit and their fans for winning a regular season series against us. Feels like a big moment for them. Lane’s home run off Scoo still hasn’t landed, maybe. So, that was quite a shot. Uh, I don’t think Lane Thomas had a big hit since. Uh, let’s see. Uh, T Roz says, “Worst offense in baseball, Tom. Yesterday was pathetic.” Evan, if I hear votes say we’re hitting the ball hard one more time. Uh, Ahmed, we out hit the Tigers in every game except game three. Thank you for the super chat. Um, Pick 99 legit could have two beers and your BAC would be higher than Hedges average. Hedges is betting under a 100red.
Well, how smaller is the person consuming these two beers?
It’s true.
I mean, Austin Austin,
he’s getting 115. Let’s give him a little credit.
He got a hit. Well, he got a hit in the what was the eighth inning yesterday. When when he got that hit, I tweeted out, “Hey, Hed just got his monthly hit.” And I was exaggerating, but not by much. Yeah, he’s nine for 78. He’s been to the plate 91 times. He I’ve said for years he’s the worst hitter in baseball. That That is literally true. That’s not an exaggeration.
Yeah. I mean, you just look at the the lineup they trotted out yesterday.
Jonathan Rodriguez’s OPS is 448. Even David Fry 498. Will Wilson 472, Hedges 453, Rochio 445.
Oh my god. Like it. It’s insane. A lot of times you’ll be like, yeah, you got one, maybe two guys like that at the bottom of your lineup in May when you just haven’t had enough reps. This is July and this is the majority of the lineup. I mean, it’s beyond pathetic.
Yeah. Grown Man Television says, “I’m trading everybody.” Uh BKB, they’ve won with less so many times it’s finally caught up with him. Yeah, we talked about that. Um Austin says, “Nailaylor is the worst catcher in baseball, and it’s I thought he was a great defensive catcher. All the metrics said he was great last year.” I think he’s well I haven’t checked in a little while but I I can’t get past the 173 average
and that being the best of any catcher on the team
defensively. So he’s been not great.
Yeah,
he’s great at he’s been great at framing. I guess overall the fielding run value is good.
Okay.
Um but the one thing the thing he didn’t do that cost them yesterday is the thing that he has not been good at this year. Yeah, be skirs. Jose’s agent is begging on his knees for him to go ahead and request a trade out there for real. A Buckeye guy. I think Santana gets traded. The Listen, even if Santana gets traded, folks, you’re not getting anything for him. I mean, you you’ll get uh, you know, a an Aball player who is not on any prospect list. Maybe at best case scenario, you might get like I mean, they might just have to cut him. I don’t know if anybody’s going to trade for him at all. Why would Boston trade for him? I I I mean, I don’t know. He’s He’s not an upgrade for anybody. Uh let’s see. Beast Grills. Oh, yeah. The Blue Jays are the are officially the winners of the Andre Jimenez trade. I I don’t know that they’re the winners. I don’t know that there is any winner. Obviously, that was a three-team trade. Uh
could be three losers in that trade.
Yeah. Uh Jimenez has been terrible. At least he gives them defense. He’s hurt now. Spencer Horwitz just he’s been worse than Santana.
Yep. And is uh we haven’t heard there’s nothing new on Ortiz since the suspension, right?
No, I don’t think you’ll hear anything until at least the end of the All-Star break.
Again, if they find credible evidence that those pitches were fixed, you know, like he purposely did that, he’s done. His career is over. He’s going to be suspended for life. Um, Buckeye guy Class is still shooking up. It’s not a word, but okay. From the Yankees last season. He’s finished two. Class has been fine since April. He’s not been lights out, but he’s been fine. And you’d still get a good amount for him in a trade,
I think.
Are you all in on that or are you depends on the
You don’t have to trade him right now, obviously. But, uh, if I get a good offer, I’m trading him. Yes. if I get an offer I like. Uh Eevee says, “Time to please bring up the youth.” Uh Celich with a $40 uh super chat. Thank you, Celich. How responsible is not spending for this debacle? How responsible is not? I’m not sure what that means exactly. Well, I think every dollar is precious, right? Because they’re just never going to spend what they should.
Yeah.
Um, and I don’t want to hear about the TV deal and I don’t want to hear about I don’t want to hear about anything like they’ve cut they have saved in previous years.
Yeah. And the whole point and I’ve heard people in the organization talk about it in the past where there are years where you pull back financially and there are years where you get a little uncomfortable and it depends on your prospects of winning.
That’s right.
And coming off an ALCS season, your prospects of winning are supposed to be good still and they didn’t do that. But there’s also the fact
you know how much of the payroll is tight. You got $100 million payroll and 12% of that is Carlos Santana and another similar amount is Shane Bieber who hasn’t pitched and 4% of that is Austin Hedges and four and a half% of that is Jacob Junis and 7% of that is Paul Sewald and like when they have spent they haven’t spent well. Lane Thomas has given them nothing
and Lane Thomas is making $7.8 million. So, you know, it it’s it’s it’s both. Like everything in this organization is a chicken in the egg. Like
Steven Vote, you can criticize what he’s done this year and and rightfully so. And at the same time, you can say look at the lineup. Look at the people he had to trot out there yesterday.
And that’s on the front office. And then you could say the front office deserves criticism. And you can’t do that without also blaming ownership. So it’s just
they’re all to blame. Yeah.
They’re all to blame. The manager’s done a terrible job. The front office done a terrible job. The owners done a terrible job. Rick says, “Stop defending ownership.” I don’t know how we’ve done that at all. I don’t get it. Uh Michael says, “I don’t even understand the rage. This has been a consistent trend for this team for the last six or seven years. One good year, one bad year, back to a good year.” I maybe they’ll bounce back next year with the same team. I I don’t see it. I don’t see it. Yeah. I just It hasn’t There are reasons for that, right? Like 2023 So 22 like that was different. That team, that team just caught fire in like August and September. And so that team, remember, they like were last in the majors in home runs by a million. They tried to address that with Bell and Zenino. They won a wildcard series against the Rays. It’s not like they didn’t go to the ALCS in 22. So them taking a step back in 23 was not as surprising. But also that team in 23 didn’t do this,
right? Like they were hanging around 500. they were a game or two out in the division and then they pulled the plug at the deadline. That was different
and then in 2024 they went further. So I I I’d fight back on that. Yes.
Um and I I also like again it’s just it’s how they’re operating that leaves me unsure about what this is going to look like next season. Absolutely. I mean this is this is probably so their worst since since Frank Kona became ma was manager in 2013 their worst season was 203 2023 as you said where they finished 76 and 86 but they were still very much in the hunt for a wild card legitimately at the deadline they traded Savali and then you know they whatever Jay was hot and bothered about that but as of Now, you know, I if you had to if you had to guess, do you think they win 76 games? Cuz I don’t. So, they’d have to go what, 36 and 38?
Yeah. You think they’ll be two only two games under 500 the rest of the way?
Yeah, they could. I don’t want to I hate when people are like, well, the schedule softens this. Right. Right.
Like again, like all those doormats you’re going to face are looking at you thinking, hey, a soft part in the schedule. Uh, but they because I I I actually think the rotation’s in a really good spot and I think I think just getting rid of some of the dead wood and calling up some kids is going to help.
All right. I hope so.
I’m not I wouldn’t, you know, I wouldn’t go to FanDuel and place a $5 bet and get $150 in bonus bets if my bet loses. You know, I don’t know if I’m going to go do that, but I
they could. Wouldn’t shock me. If they don’t win 76, it’ll be their worst season since 2012, which was the last Maniac the season. And if they lose tonight, yeah,
it’ll be 11 in a row, matching the 2012 losing streak. That was when they went five and 24 in August. The longest losing streak in team history is 12 games.
That was 1931. Well, if they lose tonight, I’ll be shocked if they don’t lose 12 because they’re going to face Hunter Brown tomorrow. So,
right.
Um, yeah, I guess you never know. It’s baseball. Weird things happen. Uh, finally, Marty says, “This team is unwatchable until they call up the lauder and kayas. Forget about it.” Um, yeah, folks, I there’s so many um there’s so many messages from fans. We’re we’ve been on for almost an hour, so we’re going to have to cut it out now. But we appreciate everybody joining us today. I know it’s frustrating. We’re pissed off just like you are. It it’s it’s hard to watch, man. sitting and watching this team, man. It’s hard enough at home. I don’t know how you do it at the ballpark, Zach, because at least I could, you know, I can’t
Hey, it’s summer. The weather’s beautiful. Uh, it’s tough.
Yeah,
but the weather is beautiful. All right, everybody, have a great day. Um, you’re uh you’re Are you um at You’re not in No, you’re not in Houston. You’re not on this road trip, are you? I’m not in Houston.
Yeah, right. You’re home. So, are you going to Chicago again or no?
We’ll talk about that later.
Oh, okay. All right. So, uh, one week till the All-Star break. Hopefully, the Guardians will win a game in the next week. We shall see. We’ll be back on a week from today. Until then, we’ll talk to you’all later. Thanks, everybody. It’s the Ultimate Cleveland Guardian Show.

The Cleveland Guardians were swept at home by the Tgers and hvae lost 10 straight games.

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