Should the Indiana Pacers change their play style without Tyrese Haliburton this year? 1s + 5s plan

Should the Indiana Pacers change their play style without Tyrese Haliburton this year? 1s + 5s plan

Tyrese Hallebertton is out for the season. Miles Turner is gone. Should that influence how the Pacers attempt to play stylistically this season? And can Rick Carell keep his same strategies at point guard and center? Kyle Taylor is going to join me for a ton of philosophical discussions about the Pacers coming season on today’s Locked On Pacers podcast. You are Locked on Pacers, your daily Indiana Pacers podcast, part of the Locked On podcast network. Your team every day. What’s up everybody? Happy Thursday and welcome in to another edition of the Locked On Pacers podcast where we of course talk about the Indiana Pacers. As always, my name’s Tony East. I cover the team for Forbes and today much to discuss about how the Pacers should play this season. They’re this uptempo team. Random action, pressure, fly around. It’s all great. It got them very far. It also is very centralized around Tyresese Halburn who’ll be out for the year. With that in mind, how should they approach this season? Do they get zany and mix things up? The Zar of Zany. Kyle Taylor is going to join us to talk about that today. Or should they try to blend with their old style and get players better playing that way for next year when Tyrese Halber potentially returns? And what does that mean for the way the Pacers have approached their dual point guard lineups, how they handle the center spot, and so much more. Really great discussions today. I guarantee we get you to think about something about this team that you haven’t thought about yet. You know how I think that cuz it happened to me many times. Hope you guys enjoy. Let’s just get right to it with Kyle Taylor. He’s back. I have to not harass him at all to have him come back because every time we talk, we talk about things that I haven’t thought of before or we bounce stuff off the wall that people are like, “Wait, what?” And that is what makes us the best. Kyle Taylor, he’s written Fry Pacers blog. He’s been on the show many times, is back to talk some Pacers off season and more so what it will look like this coming season stylistically for the Pacers and two important positions where they lost starters. Kyle, hello. Welcome back. How are you? I am great. It is miserable uh here in New York. The weather is awful. Flooding, heat, humidity. It’s terrible. And to get ready for this podcast um was an emotional chore because I am I am still, as YouTube watchers will be able to see, I’m still not over game seven. I’m still emotionally emotionally scarred. I will say that that was something from Vegas that like doesn’t matter for a podcast segment, but a lot of people were like, “What was how did you cover game seven?” I was like, “Well, I don’t know. I don’t think I said a word.” Dustin and I talk a lot during games because we sit next to each I don’t think you’d ever said a word for like over a quarter after Tyrese went down. I was at the watch party um on like the the middle level and I walked out into the concourse and sat on a couch and watched the game on the TV by myself. Yeah, I don’t think that was an unpopular uh reaction. Okay. Well, let’s look ahead instead of looking back now. That was enough of that. Um, I had an idea for a show and then Kyle had one, two, three, four, five ideas that were better than my idea, which is who’s whose job is this? Uh, and one of them really stood out to me as something that I’ve wanted to dive into for the Pacers this season. There’s been a lot of talk about like positions, rotations, who should play, who shouldn’t. The crux of this is the first sentence of Kyle’s prompt, which is get weird or stick with what works for the Pacers this year, who are this team built on depth and speed and transition and random as they call it. It’s so hard to scout and plan for. And when it’s flowing, it doesn’t matter who’s on the floor, they can score and they figure it out. And that’s great. It’s a great style. It’s worked. And it’s worked without Tyrese on the floor sometimes, but I don’t think anyone would say that he is not the reason they play that way, right? They got him. They redesigned how they play. He is the master of orchestrating that, of executing that, of not letting the game slow down, of not requiring plays to be called from the sideline over and over again. That’s all great. They don’t have him this year. And so that is something they have to now figure out is do they want to try to play that way with the resources they have in the attempt that players will get better and be ready for next season or as Kyle suggested although I’ll let him get into the rest of his prompt get weird slow it down a bit maybe do some stuff that caters to the talent that is actually available this year in the hopes that those skills can translate into the pacer style or perhaps even become the pacer style. I might have summed up your topic in a way you don’t like, Kyle, but what do you think of that kind of balance the Pacers need to strike this coming season? I’m all in on getting weird. Uh, the Pacers need to get weird. I figured you would be I am I am I’m so all in on getting weird. And I have I have good reasons for that and bad reasons for that. Bad reasons for that or I just want to see people try all sorts of stuff. Aaron Nith bringing the ball up the floor, you know, like levels of weird that that we may not ever need to see again. But mostly what I think is that the NBA is a copycat league and the Pacers, who are known for their pace a couple years ago, um ran over the league with a style no one was prepared for and then last year the league became a little bit more prepared for it. Their pace was more normal. It was still very hard to play against. They had extreme success in the playoffs, but all of the things that make the the Pacers different, like depth, for example, are things that the rest of the league is going to start copying. this uh ball pressure, full court. I mean, I was seeing some of that in summer league. That’s insane. Um these are these are a handful of things, pressure, pace that the rest of the league is going to pick up on. And if the Pacers want to remain competitive for the medium term in this era of the of the franchise, they need to keep adapting. And adaptation means that they need to put players in positions they aren’t comfortable in, test their limits, and find them. And that means next year getting weird. So, I’ve got a bunch of ideas, but um what do you think of my what do you think of my premise? Are you are you more on team get weird, or are you more on the team of they’ve had tons of success playing a certain way, play that way until you get beat? Well, to end about what you said about a copycat league, like I remember talking to an assistant coach with a non-pacers team pretty early last season when the Pacers were playing, let’s say, not well to be kind. They were they were well below 500 and they said, “Yeah, everyone’s playing like the Pacers, but the Pacers, right? Like everybody was trying to play fast and like raw pace numbers said the Pacers were playing just as fast last year, but compared to the rest of the league, they went from first to whatever it was, eighth or ninth and it was like marginally above 10th. You know, you know, they were like above the middle of the pack, but barely. They make the finals, their opponent is the same kind of team that’s also playing fast in the postseason and also is able to uncomfortably play eight, nine, 10 guys and they’re not afraid of that, right? that is that is this depth and speed thing and I bet more teams try that next year even though some teams that shouldn’t try that look like they’ll be good this coming season. So yes, that is the next thing if you’re the Pacers and Rick Carle is very sharp about where the league is trending. He always talks about his opinions on certain things. What can they get to next? Because that’s what they have to I think to your point about weirdness. they have to wonder is when Hallebertton comes back in two years, can they still be speed random awesome team and be a top 10 pace team and a top 10 offense team? And if they can, I think they can’t get too weird because that doesn’t help their ceiling that much 2, three, four years from now. If they can get weird and have those things blend with that style, that’d be great. Now, if Hallebertton can’t lead that kind of style anymore or they have other ways of playing that are just as effective and maybe fresher, then they need to implement those things. And so, finding that balance will be hard. Like, I might not be quite as zany as you on the scale of what they’ve been doing to just like, heck yeah, Johnny Fury doing stuff. I don’t know where you land on that. I’m just making stuff up. You’re nodding your head. So, I don’t know exactly where I would be on the scale. I wouldn’t say I’m quite on the ziest end as you, but I do think what the term I’ll probably use is like experimenting in some ways should be thought about a lot. Whether it’s going super small like we’ve barely ever seen E Smith at the four, right? Do it. Do it. Right. We’ll talk about one point guard units later. We’ll talk about maybe some not typical convention center ideas later for their rotation. Do it right. See if it works. See what doesn’t work. because you’re not only trying to figure out what works for two years from else. You’re trying to figure out who works and who can get better at what skills that will matter. So, it’s it’s a lot of personnel doing new stuff and it’s a lot of like who the specific personnel is. They do need to try new things, but I would not be I don’t I keep using zany, so I’ll stick with it. Quite as zany as you maybe, right? I think this is the expectation I think we all need to have as Pacers fans. There is some chance that Tyrese Hallebertton comes back and is just not quite the same. I don’t know what the percentage chance is, right? There’s both a chance he’s never the same again, but there’s also a chance that he’s not the same for a while. Like maybe he’s himself in three years or in four years. And in other words, he he reaches that ceiling again, but it doesn’t quite line up with the timeline for the rest of the guys. If he’s the same right away and you spend the year experimenting, great. You’ve learned a bunch of stuff, you remember how you played the old way, you go back to it. But on whatever percent chance there is that he is either not the same ever again or not the same for a long time, then you’re going to have needed to experiment or get zany anyway. And it’s better to put yourself in that position now. And so I have a a list of random things and I can come up with more off the top of my head, but I think one of them is certainly they it’s time to only play one point guard and to deal with the fact that they have an excessive like guard wing room and they need to figure it out once and for all. Shepard, kneesmith, Matin, Fury, um all these guys are sort of Jarus I guess. Yeah, I guess he’s a little bit bigger, but they need to they need to figure out which of these guys um really can play with the team and what their ceilings are. And like I said, that means going one point guard for the one point guard units. It means TJ needs to probably take his foot off the gas a little bit to preserve some stuff. It means Nemhard can’t be picking up full court probably. But you wind up testing all these other guys in ways that they haven’t fully been able to show. But again, like I mentioned, N Smith bring up ball handler. Like, let’s keep testing his ability to handle the ball. Let’s keep testing Shephardd’s ability to handle the ball. I want to see point Jerus. Um, I mean, listen, if we’re talking about the rotation, and it’s 10 deep again in my zany rotation, there’s one center in that rotation, and I don’t care who it is, but Johnny Fury is one of those other guys because only one center is in the the top 10. And we’re giving Fury a chance to develop. and the ziness and development sort of go hand in hand. But I I mean dribble handoffs, zone defense, like there’s a lot of stuff they can experiment with on both ends of the floor that gets away from their pace and pressure identity of last season and allows them to be more versatile two, three, and four years down the road. So that’s kind of the interesting balance to strike that I’ve talked about when I did the like what is a gap year actually doing? like what are you actually trying to accomplish in that year? Because the I think a lot of the default answer is just like tank get the highest pick. Look at this kid at BYU. Hooha. It’s like okay like yeah I guess if there’s like no emotion in basketball. These aren’t people playing the games. You just go 0 and 82. But like like I’ve said this before so I’ll make this case and blend it with what you’re saying. Like after this season Pascalakum is extension eligible after the season. And right now Aaron Eith is extension eligible. Ben Min will be a free agent next year. Uh I think if I search through Yeah. T.J. McConnell will in theory be extension eligible I believe after this year. T Obby Top will be extension eligible after this year. There are lots of guys who like want to play well this year, right? There there’s like real reasons for their life and wallet for them to want this season to look good for them and so they want to win as much as they can and play well. And when I talked to Rick at summer league that’s in the story I did the other day, he talked about like yeah, we’re going to try to win with what we have. Albeit he did acknowledge that they’re like young. So, I understand that part of it like they have to gun for it. In some ways, those guys are going to be trying. They have they went four and four without Tai last year. I think it was that might be wrong. Four and four when Tai didn’t play and Andrew Nhard did play. That’s what it was. So, okay, maybe they could be like 500 team. A lot of the the spreads suggest that. So, like what what is the goal of a 500 team that’s getting a potential superstar in two years? But to your other point, that’s where I think they have to find the blend is you’re trying to win, but they’ve been trying to win with Nemhard and Hallebertton and then it goes to Nemhard McConnell and then it’s McConnell Hallebertton. I got that backwards, but whatever. They always had two of them on the floor. Like, is that a requirement? Like, try it with one, right? Do you have to play two point guards? No. You can get these guys out there. Do you have to play a center all the time like you’re saying? We’ll talk more about center later, but like or could just Obie Top and be your starting five if that’s your best group. like maybe that’s your best answer in the Hallebertton era, right? And then you can get Fury out there, you get Jarus out there, things are great. So they have enough young guys who are kind of good that I don’t think it’s impossible for them to blend those things. But that is kind of what I think they need to make their focus become is blending it as much as possible and not overindexing on this is what our style has been. Let’s keep slamming our head against the wall with it even without the guy who makes it home as much as possible. But they also can’t go too much to me of just like, yeah, start the 23 and under group and everybody’s got an ankle injury. We’ll see you next year. Like they have to find the right middle ground, but also like that’s hard. Like going 500 is not fun in the NBA. It’s like winning is fun and it’s great that they’ll probably play a meaningful game after the season anyway because the East is so so so bad, but it’s just it’s not exciting. Like you get out of the season, it’s like give the 10th pick and you lost in the first round. You know, they have to f they have to find the right balance to come out of the season feeling like they’re better set up for the year after and that’s why they have to get the blend right. 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That’s op e n p h o n e.com/lockdon MBA. If you have an existing number with additional service, open phone will port it over at no additional charge. Open phone, no missed calls, no missed customers. I you and I were talking about this a little before we got on, but if we’re if we’re zooming out and saying what is the what is this era’s best chance for contention? Like how how do we get there? Map it out. Right? We’re down two starters for the coming year. We’re getting one back in two years. The real best path for this team to contend again in three or four years is that pick a player, Andrew Nemhard, Jarus Walker, Ben Mathan. One of those guys or even two of them need to be that sort of like just below all-star level or all-star level. And the way you get there is that you go you go for it when you take the floor. And yeah, if you get injured and players get shut down and we’re conservative with injuries, that also makes sense. But this team’s path back to contention is that one of these guys pops and that Andrew Nehard’s pull-up three-point shooting in all of his regular seasons is a fluke and his numbers in all of his playoffs are real. And actually, that’s just the player we’ve got. And guess what? That guy’s going to get allstar votes. Um, that that path is not that’s not a wide path, but it is the best one. And I think if Pacers fans look, I’m going to be honest, something I was totally wrong about a few years ago. I thought this team when they were in the the Brogden, Sabonis, Jeremy Lamb years, I was thinking to myself, they they they have no path. They’re treadmill of mediocrity, etc., etc. And because they the front office kept trying to find ways to win. Eventually, they did find ways to win. And we should trust this group of guys who they’ve entrusted to win and who have won. We should trust them that when they when given more responsibility, they can keep doing that. And if it pops for one of them, this team can be back. I don’t know about to game seven of the finals. But can they be back to the conference semi-finals or the conference finals in two, three or four years? Yes. It’s funny to think about the something you just said in there the like one of Nemhard or two or all three whatever of the Nemhard Matherin Walker and maybe other guys fit in their group becoming very good all-star level close to all-star level whatever being so important now because I mean going into last year I picked them for 49 wins but I went back and looked at I have to do this every offseason because I do this thing where I do overunders and you know random predictions for the coming season and like it was very interesting listening back to last year not quite at time like more Augusty, but how much talking about what last year like for the Pacers was like, okay, start start Matherin to start the season and then by the trade deadline they’ll figure out what they can get for Matherin or Walker and all this stuff and they’ll be and then they didn’t have to do that and they still made the finals, right? And so now they’re hitting that reality again, but this time it is like urgent that they that they figure that stuff out because of this Halburn injury timing. like it’s given them an opportunity to do something that seemed like they should do two years ago before they became I mean much better than most people thought or I thought even and now they’re in this spot to do this again. And so I I do think that that is kind of a paramount goal for the season. But what’s the best way to do that? Is it catering to their strengths? Is that actually helpful when you come back with Hallebertton in two years if you cater to these guys strengths and they look better? Like okay, are they going to still look as good in two years? Like yeah, they’re a better player, but are they capable of switching to that style? Like I you never know. You just never know. Yeah. It’s always great to maximize your assets, though. Yeah. Caitlin Cooper put this really well. I think she she said it this way many times, so I’m I’m stealing from her because she’s the best. The Pacers had a bunch of players who wanted to play one way and they had a bunch of players who wanted to play another way. And she had this sort of like some players play one way and some play another way. The fast players being uh led by Tyrese, the sort of slow it down players, you can imagine being someone like Mathan and Pascal able to sort of live in either world. And you can’t play Tyrese ball without Tyrese. And the Pacers play Tyrese Ball. That’s what got them to the finals. And this season I I just like it’s very possible the Pacers best lineup, their their best net rating, the one that they close with when they want to win games is McConnell, Nemhard, Nmith, Top, and Seakum. It’s very possible that that’s true. But for them to reach the ceiling that we just saw them reach a month ago, I think that, you know, lineups need to include Fury, Walker, Sheepard, Matan, these other guys who look have had up and down portions of their careers with the Pacers, who’ve at times fit in really well and at times have not. Sometimes have looked really bad and sometimes have not. I mean, look, with young players, I personally throw most of the advanced stats out the window. You got to watch them play to figure it out. And the advanced stats have not been kind to a lot of these guys. And when I sort again my my zoomed out, how do we get back to the place we just were? Zany, all in on zany. Because even even if I know what the best lineup is likely to be next year, I think the Pacers owe it to their to those same guys who just got them to the finals, they owe it to those guys to say, “We can get you back there. You can take us there.” And it’s by experimenting with, you know, tick off your your five favorite crazy ideas. Um, pick your two or three favorite young players. We’re going to get them more time. We’re going to get reps in a new way. And in a couple years, we will be more versatile, more adaptable, and yes, we can still dial the pace up to 100, but maybe we can also be really good when it slows down, too. And to your point about that closing five, like like default what everybody expects the rotation kind of look like, if the bench is McConnell, Sheepard, Walker, Tophin, and a five, can that group score that much? Like that’s a lot to put on TJ McConnell for however many games of a season like is that? And it’s obviously not that simple. They very rarely play all five bench guys together. Although you and I talked a lot last season like, hey, they’re probably like four of them together too much. You know, like you got to balance that more. And so what are these groups going to look like? How’s we’re going to blend these things? Hey, that gets us to discussion number two that we wanted to have, which you already brought up. They have loved to play two point guard groups, right? Nehard, Hallebertton, if you sort by all three combos of of Nemhard, Hallebert, and McConnell. Those two played together for almost 1500 minutes last season. Hallebertton, McConnell played together for almost 400 minutes last season. It’s more as much Nehard McConnell as I realized, but they very often had two of them out there. The most often solo group by far was McConnell with the bench group without the other point guards, but they had Matherin and they and Matherin might be a starter this year. His role might change in a way that changes these things. They were very good with uh Nehard Hallebertton together. They were pretty good with McConnell and Hallebertton together. They were not very good with Nemhard and McConnell together, but obviously that might change because they might play with starters this season. Do they want to keep doing that? Do they want to try one point guard stuff? Because let’s who knows what’ll happen two years from now rotationally? I still think if Nemhard’s on the team, he’d be a starter, but like do they want to explore what Nemhard as a solo backup could look like? What does that mean for McConnell? Like figure it out. You have a chance to this year. I’ll be very curious how Rick thinks about that because another reason they go to two point guard so much is it allows them to play fast and play random the way that they want. The biggest shame for me would be that we get an even heavier dose of TJ Ball. And I mean TJ Ball is is like can score a lot of points and it was really valuable in the playoffs. And if I’m going to be, you know, the Zar of the Zany Pacers fandom, I I have to demand that TJ slow down his TJ ball and that in when he nashes and and, you know, cuts across the baseline that he looks to pass, that he brings the ball up a little bit slower, that he pressures a little bit less and is able to play more minutes and runs more traditional point guardl like um sets and actions when he’s on the floor because I care so much about seeing everyone else get involved. I know TJ can do great stuff. And when it’s when it’s time to win, when it’s the fourth quarter, I will accept TJ Ball with open arms. But for three quarters of the game, I I want to see him slow down. I want to see Nemhard run the show alone. Um, and listen, if you’re if again, if I’m going to be the Zar of Zany, then it’s then it’s got to be me also saying when one of those guys gets nicked up, um, I want to see Cam Jones and Quinton Jackson because of this same I like if you’re in on this way of thinking, you got to be willing to kind of go all in and say, “Look, prove it. Prove like this is something I think Rick doesn’t get enough credit for.” Um, even though it’s something I’ve also criticized him for, frankly, Rick always starts with trust. A guy has to lose trust and and a guy can lose trust. Thomas Bryant lost trust in the finals. Jaylen Smith two years ago, we could find lots of guys. That’s right. But they always start with it. And that is like a very that’s a very good way to manage people. And I’m asking him to start with trust when it comes to Jarus Walker, Johnny Fury, and Ben Mathan. And I’m and I’m asking for his well of trust to be deep. One more break here, guys. Guys, we got to talk about Monarch Money. 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Take control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code lockdown MBA at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year. That’s monarchmoney.com code lockdown mba for half off of your first year. Is is Zar of Zany? Is Zany spelled T S Y? Is that how this works now? Um, well, I think the Russians allow you to spell Zar with a T or with a C? Oh, well, I’d accept C z CZ A R C S Ah, this is the important things that Lockdown Pacers is here for today. Yeah, those are all good points. And to my point about the middle, I very rarely like when a team straddles lines. Like I always feel like at trade deadlines and transaction periods it’s and even when a team is building what they are like on the court it’s very important for them to like here’s your style go that way right do that commit to that don’t straddle the Pacers have been so good because they have committed yes they and team directionally basketball style like once Rick got there the synergy from front office to to encore product has been like perfect and so it’s so easy to say commit to one side or the other the reason I’m in the middle is the next season after this will be so much different that it’s almost like if you go too far to the opposite side of the line, is this is this actually helping you? I’m not saying I disagree with you. I do think they No, and and again, I’m I’m just going to level the same challenge, which is do we know that? Are we certain? Are we certain that that’s their best bet to being really good again? Right. They have to assume that. I would think they have to assume that he But this is the point, right? They have to assume that he will be able to reach his ceiling again. But maybe not quite that high, but somewhat high. Yes. And and it’s but it’s both is it that high and on what timeline? And it’s because both are up in the air that I like. Briana Stewart tore her Achilles and it took her a few years to get back to MVP form, but she did like four years later after she tore her Achilles. She was I have a fever game up on the other thing cuz they’re playing Liberty. She is tearing them up right now. She is 10 five and four and it’s seven minutes to go in the second quarter. She tore her Achilles. I think she was like the same age that Tyrese was when he just tore his. And she’s still like able to tear it up into her 30s. Maybe not quite to the level she would have been otherwise. And maybe not to the level she was earlier in in her career, even a few years ago. But the point is that it she was able to get there, but it did take time. And for Tyrese, it could be the same. And this is why I’m saying we don’t know how long that gap will be, but to get back ever the these guys have to, like I said, one or more of these guys and take your pick from from the young from the young guys, one of them has to really pop. And whether that means that they are on the team and in the core and, you know, are, you know, on the team for another 10 years, that’s one path or they get traded for someone who takes the team back there. Either way, if the Pacers are just bad and tank and it’s sort of like, well, that’s it. Then they have literally one year and only one year to get the draft exactly right with no mistake and it’s very hard to do that. The draft is much more random than I think most fans want to believe it is. If you nail the draft, great. Is that guy gonna help you that like right away? Is he on your timeline? Like you Yeah. Again, that guy might help you in four or five years. Yes. And then you know who 37 by then or whatever, right? Like it’s it’s very tricky and and Hallebert they got to game seven in the finals. Like what they just did proved to be good enough that I think they have to kind of tip toward the assumption that this era can be at least really good again. Maybe not quite that high, but what does that actually mean for what we’re talking about of and I agree with you to be clear that they need one of the young guys to pop. I said that to you before we started. I found that they have to be they have to be intellectually flexible enough to believe that to believe two things. Both that they can get back to where they were, but that it might not look the same. And if you’re willing to believe both those things and be open to a future that doesn’t look like the past, then you’re compelled, I think, to to take the court next season with new ideas, new sets, new schemes, new pace, new people, and risk it because uh that future is I mean, we all like every Pacers fan will run. I mean, I look, I I I’m not saying like a title would would feel amazing if we ever get to experience one. It’s unlikely we will ever have a run like that again because no team in sports ever has a run like the Pacers just gave us and they owe it to themselves and to and their future to the franchise and to all of us to like put it in to try to get back there. And I think that that means getting weird being as a very deep that was good. I might just make that the one minute clip for tomorrow’s promotion of this show is your your that last minute of you talking. That was good. In life and in basketball, uh we are we are compelled to to try new things even when it’s uncomfortable. Uh not me and Rocket League recently, but slam my head against the wall being crap at my favorite hobby. That’s that’s a good time. Okay, last thing I want to talk to you about. I I I brought this up with Rhett yesterday. I just floated to him who should be the starting center because I’m just endlessly fascinated by this by committee approach that they’re trying. saying they’re replacing a now $25 million player with three guys or four guys who are 26 or younger. I don’t know how old Tony Bradley is. So here I brought it up with him. Two things I want to add. One is Rick when I asked him about Isaiah and he was talking about the center spot, he said Tony Bradley’s name and I might be like overthinking that. He just happens to be under contract, but I was like, “Oh, is he in the plans if he’s being brought up in that conversation?” Two, I also brought up at the end with and you mentioned it here. Is it possible that Obie’s the answer? And you seem to be leaning more into that than any of the other options is like real solutions at the five. What are you thinking? Obie starting is the answer. What is your approach to the center spot as the Pacers? Yeah, my approach to the center spot is like one big shrug. Um I same tricky. I simply don’t know what to make of two guys coming back off Achilles tears. People have like there I’ve seen polls on Twitter that are like who should start at the center spot and I’m like can I see any of them play first cuz two of them you know like my memories of Isaiah Jackson are good but I just said what I said about Tyresese Hallebertton. Is he going to be fully himself as he was 100% right when we get back to preseason in training camp? I mean probably not but who knows? And so, um, look, I haven’t gone through, um, all the Jay Huff film and and at some point I’ll I’ll watch some of it. I I recognize that there are aspects of his play that are really intriguing. And I’ve seen Tony Bradley defend pick and roll, so maybe I’m a little bit lower on him than the other guys. But really, my opinion is what I said before, and it’s that I in my 10-man rotation, there’s one center. And maybe it’s different at different points in the season, but I I guess I am taking they’re signing four centers as in training camp, pre-season, and early season. We’re going to test this out because I mean, look, you could just you tell me what you think. I don’t think there will be four centers on the roster after the trade deadline. No. And I I mean, look, Tony, both Bradley and Wiseman are not fully guaranteed. Like, they’re signaling openness to even without a trade not having four after January 1st or whatever, right? And so my my like they should try all these guys and, you know, at different points I I would like to see different members of this um quartet in the in the in like the starting unit or playing serious minutes. But it is my opinion that or my pre-season view that the best fiveman unit is gonna involve Obi Toppin, not any of the traditional centers again quite often. Yeah, depending seeing what they look like for real. Yeah, that is totally possible. I mean Rick has been willing on the biggest stages just to be like, “Yep, top and Seakum. Let’s go. this is our best matchup for what the opponent has such as in the finals such as in the NBA finals the biggest of but also against the Bucks in the first round both of the last two years uh not as much against the Cavs but sometimes sometimes against the Cavs never against the Knicks like they they’ve done it they have done it quite often in a way that’s like okay they clearly like it as a look I wrote when I wrote like Obby Top and bouncing back in December of this season that just happened was partially because he was playing the five right like they didn’t have Thomas Bryant yet Moses Thomas Brown wasn’t working out. They had Miles and then the other two guys around 20 killers. They’re like, “Oh, but you have to play the five.” And they turned their season around that month and they got Thomas Bryan in the middle of it, but like he was good. He can do it. Is it the best thing for him to do it every single minute of an entire 82 game season? No, absolutely not. And R made a good point yesterday of like Obie’s really good. He’s also really good in the old Pacer style, the Hallebertton style, right? Is he going to look as good in whatever their new system is? and if not is him playing the five away to air quotes compensate for that drop offs. And so your idea would be that he’s a five and then whatever one of the best whoever the best is of this other off to the side group is the backup. But because they’re all 26 and younger, I don’t think there’s like an age related reason to pick one. Yeah, I actually I I guess maybe I should clarify here. I would imagine that one one member of the quartet is a starter and over that is that is how I would that is how I’m fine with that consider and I and I’ I’d accept any of them, right? Like I get the argument and my argument personally if they’re going to play two centers in a rotation, which is what I just suspect from like traditional basketball thinking, but the Pacers have not always adhered to that is that Isaiah Jackson, my choice would be that he’d be the starter. We have no idea how good he’s going to be to your point, but he knows the system the best. He is clearly paid like the guy they expect to be the best. They know his rehab situation better than anyone on the planet. And if he is even close to a vertical spacer again, he’s definitely I think the best defender of the four they have like even maybe off the Achilles it’s probably him as the best defender of the group. I would start him. But I understand that like hey look Pascal fit really well with Miles and that was part of what unlocked him a little bit. The closest to Miles center not even debatable is Jay Huff. He can shoot it. Uh he’s got some pop. He reverse dunks every dunk for some reason. like he’s just kind of a goofy player, but he provides actual like floor level spacing for guys to operate and be good. I’d understand that as well. Obie is athletic and can shoot, right? Like that’s both of those things in theory. So, it’s kind of it it keeps creeping in my head a little farther like every day of the summer. Like, man, maybe Obby at the five does make sense. However, as an action speak louder than words guy, a team that picked up Tony Bradley’s option and then signed James Wisman and then traded for Jay Huff and then signed as Ed Jackson does not tip as a team that’s going to be playing Obby Toppen very often at the five, I guess, outside of closing tight games like you’re saying, right? I think the other aspect of this is is fit with Nemhard and sort of like your starting group. Yes. And there certainly Nemhard and Jax had great chemistry when they were coming off the bench a few years ago. I think they were like one of the top dunk combos in the league and they were both bench players. Um Jay Huff is very interesting in that role because it sort of clears the lane theoretically for Nemhard to drive more and that would be something that I really want to see a lot of. Um I I I I mean Bradley and Wiseman the fit with Nemhard I don’t understand at all. Um, I mean, frankly, I’m not sure how well either of them fit with anyone else they’re going to be playing with, but that’s I guess a separate conversation. I’m I’m certainly more optimistic about Jax and and Huff, but again, I just h I just It’s kind of all a shrug for me until I watch some preseason basketball and have uh overheated takes from from that. I’m having a summer league, man. Get Philip Wheeler in this center rotation. Get him in there. Um he’s balling. H he was he was balling at times. Def I do care about defense though, so I’m not sure how much I can get on board with this. Yeah, his defense has not been great. And also like if he gets the ball within five feet, it’s going up. It’s it’s going toward the rim. To be fair, it is summer league. Like if I were playing summer league, like it’s got to go up. Like I’m sorry. That’s what everybody’s there to watch. Like it’s to his credit, when it goes up, it’s going in quite often. Good for you, Philip Wheeler. Um, and we haven’t even mentioned Enrique Freeman, who’s like stone the mix. He’s a restricted free agent. They can’t unilaterally pull that qualifying offer. He could sign at any time. They got to figure out their two-way situation. I might be higher on Enrique Freeman than at least one member of the quartet. I mean, in the in the era of zany experimentation, this is a secondy year young guy. I mean, he’s older for a young guy because he was in college for forever, but like, why not, right? Put him on the 2-way, see what happens. He he mentioned in his postgame three of summer league interview like his mindset had to shift after that first game. And you could tell he’s been better in the last two. Like I would like to see him have one more good summer league game. Then I’m like okay I think that I it’s like comfortable if he’s your fourth center next season as the Pacers given their current reality. To finalize your point two years ago Nemhar Jackson together Pacers plus 2.5 net rating. Run it. Run it. Nothing has changed in the last two years. Run it. That’s it. That’s the answer. I mean, has gotten better, which is a which is a I mean, I expect that to be plus 12, not plus two. It’s uh it’s only it was only five games last year, but Isaiah Jackson was pretty dang good in those five games. I don’t know if we can take anything from Yeah. I mean, again, I’m just like these Achilles injuries, man. Like, at least one of these three guys, Tai, Wiseman, or Jax, at least one of them is probably just not going to be the same player again. like that it just like the history of this injury is re is really bad recently like the treatments have gotten better right Durant has been very good on the other side the guy that everybody brings up cuz he was like almost exactly the same player as former pacer Wes Matthews who like went from Portland to Dallas and was like yeah this is the exact same West Matthews like recovery has gotten better certainly it’s it’s a little faster although to get to like your full full peak takes longer I would say but I I have confidence they can all Maybe confidence is the wrong word. I have some sort if if you’re the Pacers, I think you have optimism they can be similar players. If there will be exactly the same, who knows? I think how Jackson and Weisber perform this season will be telling or if any of these other Achilles guys come back because there were a lot in the league last year. Alas, do you have anything else uh on these points today? You gave me so many other things I’ll have to get to in the future. No, I think I think I’ll I’ll keep my title as Zar of Zany for at least the rest of the summer. Uh you’re probably relieved of your volunteering your time to Tony East duties until actual serious stuff is happening in at least October. Uh we discussed this before so no one really cares but uh it is currently Liberty 47 fever 32 with halftime approaching. So uh my prediction is looking a little better than yours for this game to the extent that that is even relevant. Yeah, both of both the Liberty and the Fever have been a bit disappointing of late. Yeah, and one of them lost their star player for this game. Probably not good. Um, Kyle, where can people find you and the things you say about the Pacers? And where can the Zar, you know, where can the Zar of Zany see see post his zany thoughts? I am on uh Twitter at one Kyle Taylor and I occasionally uh Derek at Pacers blog has been kind enough to let me write some stuff there. So, I wrote um most recently I wrote a sort of postseason eulogy. I I suppose um eulogy sounds nicer than what you said. It was sad. It was very sad. It was sad. It was very sad. Getting thoughts on paper is helpful though. Yes. I enjoyed the playoff coverage on IPacers. Derek had you and then Dylan Hughes came in and then Ben Gibson. All the OGs of the blogging days. All the OGs of the blogging days of Pacerland. Uh back tomorrow here talking Pacers Knicks. Let’s go. Conference Finals Summer League rematch featuring We’ll see who’s playing in that game. Pictures of Quinton Jackson in sweats at practice popped up. We’ll see if he plays. I would like to see him play one more time and maybe one more Enrique Freeman game. Maybe one more RJ Dennis game. I’ve seen enough from just about everybody else who matters for the Pacers out there. And then they play the Pelicans Friday at summer league is over. We’ll wrap that up all as we go. Kyle, thank you for the time. Everybody, if you made it this far, thank you so much for listening. See you very soon.

The Indiana Pacers won’t have Tyrese Haliburton this season. How should their play style shift as a result? How wild can they get from a strategy perspective? What will it mean for their point guards and centers? Host Tony East and Kyle Taylor break it all down.

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