BREAKING: CINCINNATI REDS TRADE FOR KE’BRYAN HAYES OF PITTSBURGH PIRATES

BREAKING: CINCINNATI REDS TRADE FOR KE’BRYAN HAYES OF PITTSBURGH PIRATES

to the bench to bench. Change in the air to deep field that goes to Indie and the keep. Get out of here, baseball. It’s gone. Oh my god. Can you believe it? Johnny B has tried it out. The Cincinnati Reds win the World Series in porcelain. It was a sweep in the dirt. The wild to the poster. by the block and won the game. That ball is fair. Cincinnati’s ahead. Two games to welcome Joe to Cincinnati. Adam Dunn has done it again. Benzinger backing and calling. And the 1990 World Championship belongs to the Cincinnati Reds. Marty. Yes. This is Adam from Milwaukee. Hey Adam, how you doing? I’m good. How are you? Okay. Anything done clear done up there with the bases loaded the outfield deep and around toward right into the 10 on the way to the plate. Swing on long drive right field and this one to the rim and a high five. Get back into deep right field. Junior has just knocked the door down to the 500 winner. That ball had a family. And Daylight Cruz is Oh my goodness. Look at this kid run. My oh my, that is a triple. Then Mlan’s first big league bomb. Spencer Steer’s first big league hit is a home run to straightaway center field. Joey Botto again. The pitch. Botto swings high in the air right field. Yes, he’s pointed to the dugout to say, “I told you.” That is Joey Bono’s 315th career. Go ahead, Revy. Only Johnny Bench had more as a Red. And I can’t tell you how much it means to play in front of everyone here in Cincinnati as a Red. What a gift. What a tremendous gift. So, thank you. Thank you. I think I can speak for all of Red’s country. Joey MTO, thank you. High five. Left center field. Racing back to BA. The Reds are National League Central Division Champions. In the air, left center field. Get it. He did. He is. He did. Red. Red. Red. away. The first round can you believe it down the right field line for a three run home day by Raone Hernandez. A strike away and out away is Homer Bailey. Round ball to third. Frasier gloves throw to first and Homer Bing for the second time in his major league career. Are you kidding me? in the first 10 game in the air in the best win. What a dream to a career Bruce. Here we are. We’ve made it. Uh I have no clue, Nick, if I can hear you yet or not. I assume I’m going to be able to, but uh sounds sounds good. we finally have uh have made some effort uh to try to get better. So, we have pleased what I think is a maybe a small portion of the fan base. However, I also feel like there’s probably going to be some folks that are going to bring up this guy doesn’t solve much on the offensive end. Key Brian Aides uh is headed to Cincinnati or I believe Rogers and Sammy Stfura. Nick, you can correct me if I’m wrong on any of those details right now, but I just walked through the door. I looked at my phone I see Nick say, “Hey, I sent a link.” That means you got to check the internet. I did the internet thing as fast as I could, and here we are. Yeah, I’m uh trying to catch up. Uh uh, of course, our uh other social media guy is, you know, doing live right now. So, uh trying to get graphics up everywhere. Trying to get a live stream scheduled. So, I haven’t really checked a whole lot of the details yet. But, you know, when stuff like this happens, people want us to be live as soon as possible. So, we try to be men of the people. But, um That’s right. Yeah. This is a wild one. I heard this rumor and um you know it makes sense why why the Reds would want to um add Kabrian Hayes. I mean he is I think probably I think pretty clearly the best defensive third baseman in the sport. So you start off with that Trace. Let’s start off talking about the defensive impact because the Cincinnati Red’s defensive infield is uh right now as good as probably we’ve ever seen in our lives. I mean, with Hayes at at third base, Ellie de La Cruz at shortstop, and Ellie since the first two months of the year has been pretty good. I think he’s been playing a pretty good shortstop and and you you don’t have to squint to see the ceiling just being immensely higher than that. Matt Mlan’s played really good defense at second base and Spencer Steers played good defense at first base. So, um, you know, for a team that is, uh, built right now around pitching, uh, their defense is, I mean, now I think of I wouldn’t say elite because I still think you we we saw last night some of the outfield deficiencies. Um, but they’re definitely an above average overall defense, and it’s the first time you can say that about the Cincinnati Reds since 2019. So, it’s been that long since the Reds had an above average defense, and they have that right now. Um, that’s where you start with Hayes is he’s The nice thing is his floor is high. I mean, this guy has been an atrocious hitter this year and he still is almost worth a win above replacement. That’s how good his defense is. So, he doesn’t have to hit very well much. He doesn’t have to hit great to be a very valuable player. He He’s been bad the last two years now. Basically, last year was a poor year offensively. This year has been a poor year relatively offensively, although it was better than last year’s if you want to look at trends, I guess. But he he’s been a he’s been a league average hitter earlier in his career as well. So, it’s not it’s not like he’s he doesn’t have at least a little bit of a higher ceiling in my opinion offensively than he’s been showcasing the last two years. But, as you mentioned before, defense is the main priority with him. The reality too now is is that the Reds probably have some position flexibility on what they want to do in future years with some guys. Um, I know that I’m not going to start the song and dance on, you know, what do you do with with Ellie in future years? What do you do with Mlan in future years? What do you do with maybe if somebody else comes up uh like Sal Stewart, unless they trade him in the next day? Um, what is you had mentioned, you think he plays a really good second base there. So, it does offer the Reds some opportunities to start moving some pieces. They’ve already clearly, as I said in some previous shows, believe that that Marte is going to have to play the outfield for him to probably be a part of this uh team. And that’s quite as obvious now. I mean, now right fielder now. Now he is in right field. The question is is like how much grace are they going to show Marte in the corner outfield spots this year because quite frankly he needs to be in the lineup. They don’t have enough pieces. They don’t have enough players that have the upside that that that Marte has offensively to sit him. So he’s going to have to he’s going to have to play the outfield now. And we can’t get into ourselves into a spot, Nick. And I think it showcased itself last night. And maybe I I don’t want to say this has pushed him over the proverbial hump and Nick Crawl was beside himself last night, but like you can’t keep trying to play this defensive replacement game on half your damn roster in the sixth inning of a baseball. Like it just you can’t do that. Now, I’m all for maybe a defensive replacement in the ninth inning if you have a two-run lead or something along the lines where you feel really confident that you’re going to be able to hold the lead. But maybe I should save some of this stuff for the show and it has nothing to do with Key Brian Hayes, but I just think that that that this showcases that it’s a priority uh from the defensive side. And the question now becomes what do they want to do offensively to try to to try to maybe shore up some of the inefficiencies that that side has. Um, I don’t know if you can do it at the deadline, but you know what is pretty obvious to me, Nick, is that they got a guy that’s that has some controllable years. And I think that that maybe they’re going to make moves, Nick, that they think could possibly help them. If it’s not this year, it’s going to be for the following years. Because let’s face it, the percentage chance of this team or the the chance in general of this team making it to the postseason is not relatively high enough for them to make very risky what I would call, you know, rental players. It is funny to see what Yuanio Suarez stock is now. I mean, I don’t know how many more suitors he has left, but uh the Diamondbacks probably are running somewhat out of out of some options, but it only takes two to tango. So, I I guess that’s where I’m at with this. Um, they they still have a lot of issues that that need to be addressed. Um, I don’t know if Rogers leaving is is addition by subtraction. It kind of feels like it for probably most of this fan base. And, um, Barry Lin’s probably even more of a of a regrudging broadcaster as his guy Sammy Stafura heads out of town. Well, I think I think Larkin’s a big Hayes guy. I think he was friends with his dad if I if I saw that correctly. He was friends with everybody then, but was his guy. So, he kind of kind of trade trade for We’ll We’ll talk about Stafa in a second. Um, a guy that I did really like and it it definitely hurts to get rid of him. I I didn’t I didn’t see I don’t know if it’s final or the Reds taking on if you saw if the Reds are taking on the full contract and Rogers was just basically like to take a little bit of that was the the the salary that the Pirates were taking on. I haven’t seen anything in regards to the salary side of things. I’m sure the chat will let us know if if if Let us know if that that’s a big piece of this. Yeah, I would say that they I would hope they would take on a little bit, but I I would too, especially since you gave up a you know, a legitimate prospect. Um but that that’s that’s a big piece of this deal that I haven’t seen reported one way or the other. Um um are taking the full contract based off of Daniel Sergeant. All right. Well, um, a couple things just to kind of point out and I’m just I mean I’m kind of regurgitating things that other people have said online. Um, but this is from our friend Resin 4 and uh he had he was quote tweeting something from Sarah Lang. So Sarah Langs posted the outs above average. Kabrian Hayes this season is at plus 15 outs above average. The next best in baseball is Matt Chapman at plus four. So we have not seen this level of defense at third base. Um, so it it is going to be a stark difference. If you think Santiago Espanol is good, this is Santiago Espanol and crack cocaine playing defense. I mean, they’re not even comparable players. Um, by any metric. So, um, that that is at a whole another level. Um, you know, with Brian Hayes, he’s had some injuries. Um, it’ll be interesting to see what the how much the Reds believe in the bat. I I also saw a really interesting thing from from Lance. I think you say his name. Um I don’t know how to say his last. Lance B R O Z D O W SK Ki, however you say that. I know he’s MLB Network. Uh uh draft analyst. Um and he says that Hayes is the most obvious pull more of your fly balls and live drives guys and baseballs. Hayes pulled fast balls plus line drives rate is 19%. He goes to a park that inflates righty home runs, the second most in baseball. Um, and he thinks that that the Great America Ballpark profiles well to increase Kabrian Hayes’s offense. So, ultimately, we’ll see on that. Um, but this is I mean, this is this is what I wanted. I mean, this this is what I wanted. I wanted you to kind of be buying low on a player um that is not just for this year that that actually have an impact. This might be a complete bust. Hayes may never may never hit a lick and you may look up in a couple years and you know what this this wasn’t. But um but this is this is the kind of guy that that if he does figure out how to hit just a little bit better, he’s an all-star. They all Yeah, he is an all-star if he can hit at at league average. I mean, and that’s the question of the day is whether or not he’s capable of doing that. And the other part of this too that I think everyone’s getting upset about because we could we clearly have an we clearly have currently in the state of the Reds situation right now an inefficiency uh on the offensive side. So people want they want that fixed, right? I guess what I would say to this move is I don’t I don’t think I think we could all agree that there’s no way in the world that the Red’s front office feels like this move is going to help that. So, let’s not let’s not just assume that this is this is the end of their their attempt to try to help that situation. Clearly, it’s not. I think what it ultimately has done. And also, by the way, before I forget, I think Rogers is a little bit of a salary dump. So, you know, in a way, they they probably found some suitor that was like, “Hey, we’ll give you Rogers because we really don’t want him to be frank with you. we don’t trust him and you can take his money instead of us figuring out the financials of how much you’re going to pay us uh basically to take on his salary. We’ll just dump that. So, I know it’s not a lot, Nick, but it’s something to be to be fair. Um, having said that, they’re not done and they got a controllable piece. And I like I I’ll tell you this. I like the idea that you get a guy that, you know, has trended in the wrong direction offensively, but it doesn’t take you hard to squint and think to yourself that you might bounce back and and and be a a player that we look back upon and say, “Who did we give up for him?” and we say, “Yeah, we gave up Rogers and we gave up a kid named Sammy Stfur that you never heard of before, unless you obviously, you know, were were uh someone that paid attention to the minor league system very very well. I It’s just the Reds have depth at infield in my opinion in this organization. They just drafted a young kid. They also have obviously drafted plenty of shorts stops that people always want to bring up. And the truth of the matter is is that they have Ellie de La Cruz currently sitting in that position with a royo still sitting there and you could even make the case that Matt Mlan could play there as well. So it’s not as if Nick they they they traded a a position like a catcher, right? like if they traded Duno or if even if they traded a a what’s called a a Chattanooga level type of catcher that we believed in that would hurt a lot because you don’t know if you’re going to be able to maybe even replace that down the road. That’s not not a big concern of mine. And I mean Stfero might end up being an all-star. I’m not trying to downplay what he means or or how good he is, but um I just think it from a negativity standpoint, I I get it. People are pissed off because they’re like, “Oh, this is what we get. We’re looking for a big bat and we get another Santiago Espanol.” I mean, first of all, it’s a little disrespectful to uh to keep Ryan Hayes to compare him to me to Espanol specifically. Um, and sometimes you need a change of scenery, don’t you, Nick? I remember I remember Suarez. I’m just saying I do remember vividly. I was at at a game where Yuano Suarez was getting booed out of the stadium. He was like, nobody wanted him. They wanted him out of here and the next thing you know he’s he’s good again. Magic. We’ll talk more about Staphora, about some of these other things. But in terms of talking about change of scenery, I’ve got a treat for us. I’ve got Cody Duncan. He’s a writer for the Pittsburgh Pirates. We had him on Chatterbox Reds. I’m not sure if Cody you can hear us or not, but I wanted to hear about the change of scenery and what his thoughts were on uh on Cabrien Hayes. Cody, are you able to hear us? Hear me? Yes, hear you good. How you doing, man? I’m doing good. Good. I have no idea why my camera is not working, but uh as long as you guys can hear me, I guess that’s all that matters. We can hear your fine. You look great, Cody. He’s a handsome guy. He is a handsome guy. So, this is an unfortunate unfortunate situation for us. But Cody, man, I I seriously thank you so much for, you know, in the middle of a a is it wind? I don’t know. Is it Wednesday, Trace? I don’t know what day it is. Yeah, I think it’s Wednesday, Nick. Jumping on and uh talking about this trade because you cover the Pittsburgh Pirates kind of the same way we cover the Cincinnati Reds. you’re a fan of the team. Um um tell us about Kabrian Hayes. Just the the good, the bad, the ugly, everything. Well, like you guys know, um you know, you’re you’re in the division. You see you see how he is defensively. I mean, he’s one of the best defensive uh third baseman’s third baseman you’re going to you’re going to see probably in the next decade. Uh he’s just that good. Um you know, anytime it’s hit on that side of the the field, we know he’s going to get an out. So, that’s something you guys can definitely, you know, rely on moving forward and especially if you guys are going to be contending for a playoff spot. He’s going to be very important for you. Um, you know, if especially if you get in the playoffs, defensively, you can count on him. Now, offensively, you know, he’s he’s he’s been pretty bad this year. I won’t lie. I mean, he’s batting .236. His on base 279. His slug is what’s really really bad. It’s 290 on the season. Um it was 290 last year. So it’s kind of that’s kind of what I think that’s what he is right now. He just has no pop. Uh 2023 though, if you can somehow get a you know get a a 2023 key Brian Hayes, then you guys have something if you can unlock that because we had So what happened in 2023? He ended up with 15 home runs, batted 271, had an on base percentage over 300, and his slug was 453. I mean, he was one of the better third baseman uh in the league at that time. And the the thing was he was actually struggling until the beginning of June that year. and he was uh what happened was there was some reports that he uh on his I guess his spare time would get was was getting help from the uh hitting coach from or double A Altuna and uh for some reason after that year they fired that hitting coach because we have no idea why but they got rid of him and uh he was their he was Kee Brian Hayes’s like main hitting coach. and they got rid of him. We thought they were going to promote him. They fired him and we have no idea why. It might have had to do with him helping keep Brian Hayes because it made Andy Haynes look bad at the time. It was really I I I really don’t know how to go about why they got rid of him, but I know it did not make Key Brian Hayes happy that they did that. And I mean, you look at last year and you look at this year and it’s he’s he’s one of the worst hitters in the league, if not the worst hitter in for at least starting third baseman. So, there’s definitely something there if you can find it. And I think playing at great American ballpark is definitely going to help him. Uh he does hit to the opposite side of the field a lot. Um, so if you can if you can just find something and unlock something with him, I think he will he could be definitely serviceable for you at least offensively. You know, you’re going to get hit that uh defensively. But finding something that he once had is definitely a possibility if you guys can uh, you know, have the right hitting coach because we clearly do not here. Let me let me ask you about this, Cody, because I don’t know if I have no idea if this is fair or not. I just saw some of this floating around on social media there. There was some stuff that that people were saying about how Cabrian Hayes just was not happy in Pittsburgh and the whole change of scenery is a big narrative of this trade. Do you think that’s a piece of this or fair? Yeah, I mean that’s definitely um it’s definitely a possibility of that being one of the reasons. I think the main reason though is where this where the Pirates are right now financially and just what the lineup looks like. They needed to get him off the books. I don’t think they personally wanted to trade him, but just because of how reliable he is defensively, but he’s getting paid around $8 million a year for the next five years. Um the offense is just so bad that they need to um find find something this off season and use that money for something else. And he just isn’t the guy. I think he’s a he is a a good player overall just because of how good he is defensively. Um but it’s just not a right fit for the Pirates unfortunately. Now I think you guys I think you have a good offense a lot better offense than us. I know that’s might not be saying much for you guys, but you have you if you’re paying attention to the Pirates at all. We have literally we’re like last place in almost every every offensive category, we’re probably in last place. So, I I’m sure you guys aren’t much much better, but you’re better enough where you can handle hiding him in a lineup and just accepting his defense and accepting his flaws offensively where he might actually be more beneficial for your team than the Pirates. Tracy, any other? No, I would just say obviously I don’t think that uh our fan base would definitely not would they would not agree the fact that we could hide him somewhere offensively currently as we speak at this very moment. But we do have the the fact I think the thing that we’re going to appreciate probably on this show the most is that there is service time like that we that we receive, right? This isn’t a rental player. It’s not a guy that we were going to go out and and trade prospects for and then all of a sudden find ourselves in two weeks being six games behind the Padres’s and feel like we just wasted um we basically spent something that is already gone. Um that said, I did look up uh who his hitting coach was. Looked like it was John Nunnelly. Uh I guess he that was correct. Uh he looked like he had coached for Altuna. Uh for those that are wondering, uh I don’t think that he currently has a job. Um, but I will say I truly think, and this is just, you know, putting my tenfoil hat on, I truly think he’s black ballalled. I truly think he got black ballalled for going going be uh against the uh the organization behind their back and helping keep Brian Hayes because it made it made Andy Haynes look bad. I I swear. I mean, I like I said, that’s a conspiracy theory. A lot of Pirates fans think that, too. But it just did not make sense that he was clearly helping Keith Brian Hayes and he completely flipped the switch and ended up having that 2023 season which was his best season and then all of a sudden he doesn’t get renewed or fired or whatever and never has a job ever again. Uh John Nutunny would be uh he might be available although I would caution maybe the Red’s organization here. Uh this is tongue-in-cheek joke. This is what I try to do on this show from time to time because I will say in 2005 while playing for the Indianapolis Indians, he did uh test positive for steroids and he did receive a 15game suspension. Um that is something we’re trying to steer clear of here as we move forward in uh in the Cincinnati Reds organization is those suspensions from peeds. But I digress. as long as as long as he’s not help as long as he’s not gambling, you know, clearly that’s that’s a bad thing right now for players and coaches. So, yeah. Uh it’s hard to say, but uh no, I I guess the biggest takeaway is is obviously just your overall perspective on on the value that he brings defensively. You had just mentioned you think he’s the worst hitter on the worst offensive team in the entire league. Yet, when you were asked about whether or not he’s a serviceable player, you said you think he’s a still you still think he’s a serviceable player, which again makes me think that you’re I guess again you can always put the rosecoled glasses on and that’s what we’ll probably do in for the Reds here at the beginning of this relationship that we have with with Key Brian Hayes is is that I guess if worst case scenario he’s going to be a at least a a defensive replacement, a guy like Santiago Espanol who we currently already have best case scenario is he is he gets back to his former self as he once did in 2023. Like you said, he’s one of the best third basemans in all of baseball. Um I guess any other final parting thoughts? Was there was there anything that that uh from a personality perspective you felt like he brought to the table or is it just kind of hoham? Yeah, I’m not going to I’m not going to say he was the most enthusiastic player on the field. Okay. Uh so yeah, you’re not going to get too much uh too much out of him when it comes to that. But like I said, you know, defensive runs saved, he has 16 defensive runs saved. He’s you’re going to get a you’re literally going to get a go a gold glove this year. He’s going to get a gold glove for you guys. I mean, it’s not even close. Caleb Durban is the second best third baseman for defensive run save, and he he only has eight. So he doubles this guy in second place when it comes to that stat. So I mean you don’t have to like I said there is going to be some benefit of having him on the team. Now am I glad he’s not on the team anymore? Yeah. Yeah I am. So that’s you’re going to get you’re going to get that out of me because uh I just think like I said for this team it just wasn’t a good fit. And hopefully he’s a good fit for you guys. um he’ll probably end up being a pirate killer somehow someway. He’ll probably probably have like an 800 ops, you know, by the time we play next time. And uh and then we’ll be like, well, Ben Sharon failed again. So, that’s just how the pirate luck goes. So, may maybe you guys will uh like I said, find something out of him offensively. And I I actually kind of hope that does or hope he does do that just because I do think he’s you know, he’s never caused any issues or or anything with the team. Uh, now like I said, he wasn’t very enthusiastic on the field or anything like that, but from what I’ve been told, he’s he’s a good he’s a good guy in the in the clubhouse and he he doesn’t cause any problems. So, that’s that’s obviously one another benefit for you guys. Was 202023 uh excuse me, was 2023 the year in which Pittsburgh got off to a relatively good start and then it kind of fizzled out? It’s years run together for me at this point, but it felt like, you know, Pittsburgh, again, I don’t want to ever say that maybe you were in the in the pennant chase at the very very end of the year, but um if memory serves me correct, was that one of the maybe the years that you you were playing a little bit over your head for a while or no? Yes, that was the year we started out 20 and eight uh to start the season. So, yeah, we were doing pretty good to start the year, but surprisingly, Hayes was not. He’s the one that, like I said, by I think the middle of June is when he started to turn it around. Um, so fair enough. All right. Well, I I uh I don’t have anything. Nick, if you have something. No, that’s all I got, Cody. Um, I do like Sammy Stfur, I will say. Uh, it was a prospect that I really like. Performed really well for the Reds. Um, so I think you guys got a good prospect back for him. So, uh, I I would be excited about him. But Cody, I really do appreciate you uh taking some time and joining us today and giving us your perspective. Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Uh like I said, best of luck uh with him and best of luck uh trying to get in the playoffs. All right, thanks Cody. Thanks Cody. All right, good stuff. I would have uh I would have done this with Cody on, but I didn’t want it to be too disrespectful, but it’s like maybe I mean it’s got to be hard to be positive when you’re when you’re losing 95 games a year. I’m not trying to be disrespectful. I’m I’m saying that as as nicely as possible, right? Like I mean at some point it wears on you. Like I I’m tired of this. Like we we’re not good either, but I’m just saying. Well, I mean just think like the the vibes in in late April. Everyone’s watching this team saying this team has no energy. They’re lethargic and now they go and they sweep the Rays over the weekend and oh my gosh, this team has all the energy. They want to they want this team to go for it at the trade deadline. Like right. I mean this this year we’ve seen both of that. So, um, yeah, this is just, I mean, how I look at this is he’s not going to be a bad player for the Cincinnati Reds. And I know people aren’t going to want to hear that because of the offense and they want offense so bad. He’s not going to be a bad player. Like, he his floor is a guy that is going to be a gold glove defender and that provides some value that makes up for a lot of the hitting. Um, and I’m just it’ll be interesting to see this cuz I just we I don’t have we ever seen a I’m trying to think like in in Red’s history great defensive third baseman who who not third base Scott this is probably Scott Roland. I mean and Scott Roland probably wasn’t even as good as Scott. Yeah, I don’t think we actually saw Right. I mean I think this is like better than 2010 Scott Roland. I mean that that’s we just have we haven’t seen this. So, it’ll be interesting to see kind of what that looks like. And you know what I mean? Like the the biggest positive out of this is that Red’s ownership just took on money. I mean, put take away your hate of Kabrian Hayes’s offense. The Red’s ownership just took on a multi-year contract, right, for dollars. And yes, they gave up one prospect, but it was about giving up money. So, I mean that to me that that’s a breath of fresh air. I mean, I didn’t think this was B. Would if I had told you yesterday the Reds are going to take on a guy that signed through 2029. I It’s not a It’s not a tournament. What is that 13 14 million a year? I’m trying to think on the fly here. That That’s not chump change. So, shout out to that. I’m thrilled about that aspect of it. I I I am shocked by that a little bit largely because I’ve said this before, I’ll say it again. The CBA is a huge deal to me. I I I think I I I think people are underestimating the CBA. I really do. And I I I I don’t even want to say I hope I’m wrong because I really think that things need to be fixed in this league. They need to be fixed and there’s a lot of issues that go on and I don’t know what those contracts look like after um kind of the the CBA gets negotiated, but I would assume that they’re going to get grandfathered in, Nick. said there’s going to be a little bit of a time frame here where you’re not going to get penalized for having, you know, certain amount of money on the payroll. When reality comes, I think that there’s going to have to be some, again, I don’t want to get into the salary cap situation, but to your point, I didn’t expect the Reds to take on a whole lot of money until after that until after that whole CBA be becomes a thing. So, um, yeah, like there’s a bunch of people in the chat that are that are clearly upset like, “Oh, this is who we get.” like this isn’t the end. If you if if you think that this is what the Reds have decided to do to try to to try to basically fix their their offensive inefficiencies, we I I say this humbly as possible, like that’s not it. It’s not what this was about. This was a longer term play in my opinion, Nick. This was about the future. And I know people want the now now now. And you know what? They might go out in the next hour. They might have Yandi Diaz. Like they they that that’s a possibility. They might who knows? Maybe uh Taylor Ward from from the Angels, they find a way to get him. I don’t know if they’re going to get that type of player. And as we said before on the show, it all depends on what what who’s available. Taylor Ward’s a guy, you said it yourself, is he even available? Like are the Angels actually even going to let him go? I don’t know. But the truth of the matter is like this front office has got to start finding ways in my opinion to take some stabs at some lower risk players and continue to try to develop the uh the farm system in the way that they have. But they are going to have to take some risky shots. And this is one of those riskier shots in my opinion from a financial perspective. It’s not it’s not the prospect risk, but it certainly is going to be capital that that that that our fan base is going to look at our payroll and they’re going to say, “Well, you know, if if Hayes doesn’t pan out, they’re going to point to the fact that he’s getting paid what he gets paid.” But as we’ve said before, you know, if you know, it’s funny. We don’t like Santiago Espanol. The large portion of this fan base is because the way he’s been used. If Espanol was hitting ninth on one of the top 10 offensive teams in baseball and all he did was play defense, he would be adored. Like we would appreciate what he does. But we don’t because we’re we are absolutely fighting tooth and nail to try to find people that can hit the baseball on this team. And that’s what he’s going to go through at the beginning of this relationship. It just is, Nick. People are going to they’re not going to care how good he is defensively because they’re going to be like, “Well, this didn’t fix anything. we still have problems. Well, if the Reds don’t go out and find other other areas to help fix the offense, then I would say that’s that’s not Kebrien Haye’s problem. That that that’s not why he’s here. Um, if he comes in and he’s an average defender, right, and he still hits the way he is, then yeah, then we can be upset and say we swung and miss completely on this. But I don’t think that’s the case. They need a first baseman. They need a first baseman. So, I I don’t know how many more times I need to say it. Like, we sit here and we point at all these different players about if you have an elite third baseman defensively and you have an elite shortstop defensively, right? And I would say you have an elite catcher defensively, they could all be below average hitters and you could still have a very, very, very, very good baseball team if you fill the rest of the spots up on your roster with guys that can actually contribute offensively. And you mentioned we have a great defense, Nick. I still think we have a really we have some issues from a corner outfield perspective um because we have a bunch of platoon guys currently and I know TJ Fredo not being there last night really hurt too. I mean I I don’t I don’t think people give that enough credit either to be honest. Yeah, I think that that that was a cause and I also think the fact that the Reds have had to use Austin Hayes as a DH and not out in left field to to try to preserve him. I mean I think that’s had a big impact as well. Um I have a question to that. I was I I I know we’ll do our show later, but it’s probably gonna be about the game. We didn’t really do a show last night when when Hayes is is is available. Um, and I I guess you you have to DH him. So, I and again, I don’t know I guess I don’t know the lineup rules well enough like you can’t you could you forfeit the DH in a spot like that and put him as a defensive replacement late in the game or no. Is that not a thing? I really don’t know. What exactly are you proposing? I’m saying like why don’t we ever consider putting Hayes right like in left field towards the back end of baseball games like we put in Santiago Espanol or anyone else like if if Gavin Lux is out there in left field um like at some point is it not okay to play just you could and then you’d have to try to I guess pinch it for the Yeah. But but when you’re in the seventh inning you might have to pinch it like what one time. I guess if you go into extras you could get screwed but it just seems like the risk of that would be so low. Yeah, it’s I mean that’s that’s a lot of a lot of moving parts to just like use a guy leftielder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I one thing I on this before we move on to I guess the four people are going to want to know the impact on South Stewart. Um what our thoughts are on what they might do do next. Um, one thought on this is, uh, I hope now that this is done, Noel Mart is clearly now a right fielder. Yeah. Please God, play the guy nine innings. Like, it it’s not it’s not uh uh this is you’re clearly moving him now. You’re not having him start at third, move to right. Play him the full nine innings. Let this kid learn and take the good and the bad. I got a better one for you. You ready? Yeah. He’s a left fielder and he stays there the whole game because we already have people that play out there that aren’t good anyways. So, it doesn’t matter. And if you want to play whoever you want to play in right field, that’s fine. You can platoon those guys. You can mix and match them all you want, but you’re not taking out the left fielder. He stays there and he stays there the whole entire game. And we already have done this all year long by putting Gavin Lux in left field. And we’ve convinced ourselves that Gavin Lux is an outfielder when he’s not. We’ve we’ve tried to this organization does this way too often. We try to convince ourselves that that that Nick sends as an outfielder when he’s not. Um the reality is is that I’m with you. We he needs to just stay out there and play out there and get comfortable out there. I think I’d prefer him to be in left field. It’s it’s in in my opinion in our park, it’s a much less difficult area to cover than right field because of just the way the ballpark dimensions kind of become. Now, I don’t I know why they didn’t do it last night, Nick, because they had Gavin Lux in left field. And if you had your choice, which one do you want to put in right or left? You definitely want the guy that’s a little more athletic in right. But if it was up to me, I would put Hayes in the DH spot if you’re really worried about his health. And then, yeah, if you want from time to time to make sure that you can get him uh I guess what would be Gavin Lux in the lineup, then you can move him there. I’d also say, Nick, as crazy as this sounds, I’m not opposed to putting Gavin Lux at second base if if Matt Mlan can’t start playing a little bit better. I mean, at some point, at some point, you got to you got to at least entertain that idea. Although, I I think I think Mlan has out hit Gavin Lux the last two months. I’ll pull up the numbers here in a second. I know they’re all bad. And, you know, Mlan’s at least going to play great defense there. So this this is kind of leading into the next kind of talking point here is kind of feels like the Reds have position players to move now cuz you’re not trading for Brian Hayes for him not to play every day, right? He’s playing third base. They’re put putting him ninth in the lineup and he’s there for the rest of the year. Unless there is something I’m completely missing on this. So now that you do that, I mean, you don’t have to put Gavin Lux in the outfield anymore, unless you’re not playing Noel Marte, which would be acidine to me the way that he’s hit on an offense that that can hit. So if you put Marte in right field or left field, whichever one you have, you have Freley, Benson, whoever in left, Fredel in center, Austin Hayes the DH, you don’t even have a spot for Gavin Lux. So I mean, could they be trading Lux? Could they be trading Freley? Could they be trading Benson? Could they be trading Fredel? I mean, could they be trading Austin Hayes? I mean, it feels like they have got to trade at least one, maybe two position players at this point. I agree with that. Also, to clear something up, because I just randomly seen it in the chat, maybe there’ll be people that listen to this in podcast form. If you do, break it up. When I say Hayes dhing, uh, there’s only one Hayes on this baseball team that should be dhing. It’s it’s it’s Austin. Okay? If you can’t keep up with that, then I don’t know how to tell it to you. Just help. Just come on, keep up. You know what I’m saying? No, we’re not going to have the guy that’s currently have a 60 OPS plus that’s got 25 defensive run saves up to the season dhing. Okay. So, yeah, I know I know that you guys think I’m an idiot sometimes, but I’m just saying like if we can’t comprehend that part of it, then it is what it is. Let’s keep it moving. I thought that was pretty self-explanator. Obviously not. Um, what does this have? What does this impact South Stewart? I think that’s probably the next talking point that people want us to talk about. Yeah, I think it puts pressure on Matt Mlan. Definitely. I mean, I think it’s Okay, Mlan, you better better learn how to hit big boy. Um, or South Short’s going to take your position. I I’m not I don’t know. I I haven’t seen enough. I mean, I like Gavin Lux. I liked Gavin Lux. I haven’t seen enough out of Gavin Lux the last two months to think he should play over Matt Mlan. And you could hate me for that. I just haven’t seen it. And it it would just it would feel weird to go get a defensive I don’t want to say defensive first, it’s like a defensive only third baseman and then play Gavin Lux as second base over Matt Mlan. Like it kind of feels like why would you prioritize one or the over the other? Um so for me, yeah, I mean I think Sal Stewart is is now pushing Matt Mlan. It’s also also not completely out of the question that the Reds make this move and South Stewart it gets traded. I mean it would have to be a great trade. It would have to be a player with multiple years of control. Um but that’s now gives you that option as well. Um, South Stewart I think could also probably play first base and or you know what, hell, South Stewart could be the third base, second base, first base kind of roving guy. Maybe the old Spencer Steer. Yeah, the the I’m not going to say I’m I’m being I’m being positive today. I’m being positive today because you know what? The Reds didn’t go out and get a third baseman for two months when they have a 10% chance of making the playoffs. So, I am positive today, brother. I am positive. Let’s go. Gavin Lux have any any semblance of value at all? Um, I would think so. I mean, he’s a cheap costcontrolled player that you still have next year as well. Yeah, he’s a free agent in 27. I’ll give you I’ll give Oh, people are going to hate this. People are gonna hate this. Trade Austin Hayes and make Gavin Luxure pretty much your your DH. Obviously, not against uh left-handed pitching, but you’d be trading Austin Hayes at a much higher value. Again, Austin Hayes, if Austin Hayes could play every day in left field, I am so much more excited about him. But when he’s a DH only, you kind of go, have we got the best out of Austin Hayes, too, this year? like you know he almost feels like a guy that the back of his baseball card I I don’t think he’s been fluky super fluky but is he the next two months you’re you’re trying to figure out the next two months who can do whatever I I I would be open to it at the right again it’s all at the right price. It’s all at the right price. Yeah. I mean I I it really comes down to what this front office thinks that they they’re doing. I mean, I I don’t know. They’ve not really shown their hand yet whether they’re buying and selling, you know? I mean, you could make the case that they’re selling right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This this this trade trade absolutely nothing towards any hint of which way they go. I think there’s people right now that seen the Reds made a trade and they’re thinking, “Oh, man. They’re starting to make moves. They’re trying to This doesn’t mean they’re buying. This doesn’t mean they’re buying at all. It doesn’t mean they’re selling either.” I I think doesn’t mean either one. This is like right down the middle of of you could go one way or the other because this is clearly a move in my opinion more about trying to get a player for the next four years than than for two months. 100%. Yeah, this is a long that’s a long-term sign. This this has nothing to do with the the it doesn’t even address what this team needs to get to the postseason. So clearly to me it’s like it’s an obvious long-term play. um you’re buying relatively low on a guy that had showcased like for instance if you would have went out and tried to get key Brian Hayes after 2023 and or his rookie season, his first rookie stint, you would have been paying you know you’d had to move what uh you know mountains basically to try to get him. Now, you got him for what was a a prospect that you could say was buried on a depth chart to a certain extent, and you gave up a left-handed reliever that you didn’t care about, and that’s that. So, this doesn’t change anything. I I really I don’t I don’t mean to make it to seem like it’s not a big deal. It’s a big deal in the sense that they they they they have given themselves flexibility, but it hasn’t changed anything for this season. If you’re if you only care about 2025 as a fan, you still got to wait. You gotta wait a whole another day to figure out what this whole thing looks like. In my opinion, Nick, as far as moving players, people are asking like, “Let’s move this guy, that guy.” If Matt Mlan is incapable of hitting, okay, then at some point you have to ask yourself, is there another option that we think could be a little bit better? You’re not moving Matt Mlan to any other positions because that’s the only value you currently get out of him at the moment. So, if Sal Stewart comes up and, you know, let’s just say Haynes is, and let’s also say this, Nick, if this baseball team is serious and they go out and get some real help, I I could I could argue that Kbran Haynes just becomes the Santiago Espanol except exceptionally better. This it doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean that he has to he’s going to play there. I I I know that. I’m not stupid. But I am going to openly say if if Matt Mlan starts tearing the cover off the ball and Sal Stewart ends up being like a legitimate big league all-star type player and again these are all hypotheticals and let me tell you that’s pie in the sky type stuff is to hope both of those things happen right but if it does happen that that that just means that you have a utility player that that perhaps you could use some flexibility for from time to time. I don’t think the Reds are thinking that way because how much they’re willing to pay him, but it’s just something to think through. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I think they’re going to I mean, I think he’d have to I think he’d have to I I don’t I think he to almost be worse than he is right now. I mean, he’s still Again, I I just I don’t think people understand how elite his glove is and how impact that that can actually be to a fitting staff. I I I don’t know. I think some people maybe will see it when they see it with their own eyes. Now that this guy’s for sure going to have a a throw here as first play. I mean, I just I 100% see that coming. Uh first play. Yeah, there’s Yeah, that that’s the the most obvious thing that’ll happen, but we’ll see that. I mean, in terms of though this year, if Santiago Espanol is your third baseman, which yes, I know he hasn’t been starting games, but he still kind of is the Red’s third baseman because Noel Marte can’t play nine innings. Cabrian Hayes is a significant upgrade over Santiago Espanol. I mean, Santiago Espanol this year has a 64 OPS plus. Cabrian Hayes is at 59. Cabrian Hayes is an elite defensive third baseman. We’re talking 13 or 14 defensive first save like plus one. So it it is a significant upgrade. Just it’s not the upgrade that people feel, but it does contribute to winning. Yeah, it’s not it’s not a big enough of an upgrade to actually move the needle to make it to where this changes much to be honest in regards to 2025. This to me is is you know what this is? This is like going out and go getting Luis Robert to me. This is what this is. This is this is the type of move that this is. Go get it, too. Yeah, I say it. I mean, I I am I am all for that. Like, let if you go let’s go out and let’s find some guys that that that at one point in their career probably had um really high expectations. Do you not think that the Pittsburgh Pirates at one time thought that Kebran Hayes was going to be one of the top 10 players in Major League Baseball at his position every single year? Pittsburgh Pirates signed him to $70 million. They must have. Yes. The answer is yes. Uh Luis Robert Jr., same type of player. They both have low they’re on the lower end of what their value is comparatively speaking of where they’ve been. I am all for going and getting those types of players. So, you’re not going to hear me complain like there’s just I guess for a guy that has has been told that he’s toxic, complains a lot, downs the organization, you know, always negative. There’s not a whole lot here for me to say you could be all that upset about. Like, they just have not done anything to hurt themselves. They spent money. I mean, if you want if you want to complain that the or that the ownership group spent money, you can do that, which I guess some portion of the fan base might, but they didn’t do anything to hurt themselves. Like, they quite literally did nothing to hurt themselves. Now, I say that and Stfur will probably be like a perennial allstar and, you know, whatever, but it’s just pie in the sky type stuff here. If you’re if you’re thinking that if you’re thinking that uh this this moved the needle to be fair, but at the same time, I don’t think that that’s what this was about. It’s just not. I mean, everybody’s looking at the trade deadline like it’s like it’s you got to you got to find something that can help you in 2025. This was not about that. And I I mean, I don’t mean to be negative. That’s fine, but that’s not what this is about. We’ll see if they go find some help, but wouldn’t shock me if they’re sellers. Just being honest. Well, we’ll see. I mean, the Padres’s are about to uh uh get their game underway right now. So, by the time we come on tonight, we’re going to know if the Reds are two games back, three games back, or four games back. That’s a big deal. I I I mean, I I I I really enjoyed I I listened to uh uh Clay and uh uh Craig about 2:30 a.m. as I drove in between Columbus and Cleveland uh last night. and I enjoyed their show, but but Clay said uh this Dodgers series doesn’t change anything about res buyers or sellers. I’m just like I I don’t know if I like it’s a huge difference being four games back or one game back. I mean that’s there’s like there’s like 50 games left. I mean I mean they could have been up. I mean, I’m not trying to say they should have swept the Dodgers, but there’s a chance that I I know the Padres’s ended up taking care of business, but like Well, and the Yeah, Padres’s should have shouldn’t have swept the Mets, which they could do today, which it’s just it’s exactly this whole thing is just it it it’s nuts in how much it can change over the course of the day, which I guess is maybe Klay’s point that it could change again, but I think you have to kind of look where you’re at and make the best educated guess on where your odds are and what’s realistic or not, not what’s a long shot and what’s not. Um um on on Staphora um he was the one guy that I said I thought was maybe the most expendable of the Red’s like top prospects. Um I I liked him a lot. I mean he has done nothing but play well since he got in the Red’s organization. He’s still a really young player, but you know with like kind of the the emergence of Tyson Lewis right behind him that’s kind of pushing him. It felt like he was maybe the most expendable player. And uh I I’m not going to give this away, but I actually talked to someone in the the organization. Um and I had heard that Stfura was maybe one of the most expendable players. And um it just Yeah. I mean, it felt like that like if I was the Pirates and you know, like like they’re they’re so far they’re they’re so like far out of it right now in terms of like like what they need. Like I would be pretty happy with if I was the Pirates on this deal. Um because like they the Pirates are are interesting because you know the Reds Red’s fan base this is the worst offense ever. The Pirates are like at a whole another level of bad. Like it’s not even like we’re talking 78 WRC plus versus like 96 for the Reds. That’s like that that’s like the difference between the Reds that that’s a bigger gap between the Reds and the best team in baseball. Like that that’s that’s how far of a gap it is. Um, and then also like in terms of spending, like the Reds are, I think, quite a bit ahead of the Pirates in that regard, too. So, um, yeah, I I I I I like this. I like the potential of this move. I like the potential of this move. I’ll tell you what I like the most is how many people absolutely hate it in the chat. I I actually think that’s that that that actually bodess maybe the the most well. Like if there is an indicator on whether or not something’s going to work or not work, it’s typically it’s typically how many people hate hate something. I’ll go there. I mean I people are acting like this is the world’s worst trade. I just I mean you we can’t have it both ways on this channel. If we ever bring up the fact that we don’t want to give up prospects and we don’t want, you know, we don’t want to move too many guys because we don’t want to mortgage the future. Everyone’s going to sit there and say, “Well, these guys aren’t big leaguers. They aren’t big leaguers. You can’t, you know, how hard it is.” Think we got people in the chat telling me that that Sammy Stfur is hitting his OPS in the in the Florida State Leagues higher than Hayes. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it’s probably I mean, what the hell do you think? Like, no offense, but CES is basically a Hall of Famer in Triple A right now. They’re they’re erecting a statue for Reese Hines in Louisville. Like, there’s a reason that guys do better in the lower levels than they do when they get to the major leagues. And I I also need to remind everybody like at least Kebran Hayes has been in the major leagues for quite some time and he’s provided some semblance of a value at at at least at some point somewhere. And I’d also I mean again not to get over overly crazy but he was and again it’s only 40 games or 24 games 95 played appearances so I’m not even going to use it but it was a 201 OPS plus. No no no just don’t want to count it. Uh but then he goes 86, 88, 103. Three years in a row he was just slightly below an average hitter in Major League Baseball or he’s an average hitter. And if you’re going to tell me that you’re going to get that defensive that big of a defensive upgrade with a guy that’s going to hit a little bit below league average, we’re going to take it. Now the problem is is he’s gone 61 and 59 the next two years. I’m not naive to that, but like it’s a decent it’s a decent stab at it. And don’t come don’t come back to me when the guy’s next year playing out of his mind and he’s looking like Barry. Uh I’ll say Barry Lurin, but I was going to really think Brandon Phillips. I mean, if he looks like Brandon Phillips at third base, you know, there’ll be plenty of uh there’ll be plent what what numbers he going to wear? I guess he he can’t wear 13. So, what is he going to wear? But we’ll find that out later. But there’ll be plenty of jerseys roaming Great American Ballpark with it. I mean, there was a Candelaro jersey last night, so I guess the bar is not very high, but and this isn’t going to kill the Red’s payroll either the next several years. Like, yes, it is nice that they took on salary, but he’s making 7 million in 2026, 7 million in 2027, 8 million in 2028, and 8 million in 2029. Go find you a gold glove third baseman for cheaper than that. like on the free agent market for any of those years on a one-year deal, even if the guy hits like he’s hit now, it’s going to cost more than that. So, it’s it isn’t going to kill the He’s making basically almost the same as Taylor Rogers made this year. Yeah. He played a he played 100 games when he was 24 years old. He played 136 games the next year. He played 124 games the next year. He played 96 games last year. And currently, he’s played 100 games this year. So, I’ve seen people in the chat saying that he’s injuryprone. The hell are we talking about? I mean, have we watched our baseball team? Like, we have guys that that that have played eight years for the Reds and haven’t even they haven’t accumulated uh let alone 576 games, they haven’t accumulated 300. But we don’t want to trade Nick Lollo because he looks so good, but yet he’s he’s not on the field half the time. I Let’s pick a lane here. Like, Nick Lolo’s hurt every other every other, you know, month. But we don’t want to get rid of him because he looks like he is quite literally maybe the world’s best pitcher. But it’s just like you can’t win for losing. I get it. That’s that’s part of it being a front office and making trades, especially when you have the flexibility that the Reds have. There’s just not a lot of there’s just not a lot of room for air if we’re being completely frank. Um and they have missed on some guys. Mustakas and Candelario are two big swings and misses that a lot of this fan base knows about. Um, we’ll see. I I uh let’s make a fun little game here before we before we uh before we jump. We got to get to Yeah, we’ll do the supers. Uh buy or sell? Got to pick which one you think they’ll do. Which one Which one you think that that you would consider it? I mean, they might do both, but which one do you think they’ll they’ll consider that that’s what they actually did? I think they’re gonna soft buy would be would be my my best guess. But I I think if the Padres’s win and the Reds lose tonight, I think they’re I I there’s no way they’re going to bl there’s no way. I mean, but again, it it depends. Are they if there’s another like deal like this, I don’t think it really matters for this year. Maybe they’ll try to find another one of these deals. I just I hope this fan base What What do you Well, what do you say? I think they sell. I think you think they sell. Okay. I think a smart franchise would sell. I do. Yeah. I think a smart and and I even told you this. I know people are going to think I’m I’m flip flip-floppy on this whole thing and I kind of have been to a certain extent because there’s times where Yeah. you sweep the Rays and you’re like, “Holy smokes, we’re one game back. Let’s do this thing.” But I have said for weeks, Nick, I will defend myself a little bit on this. I have said for weeks that how long would I wait until I made a decision on what I would do? You were right on it. Yeah. I mean, you have to that you played too good of a baseball team because it’s just so obvious to me that there’s a good chance that you could get swept by these guys. That’s how good they are. You can sit here and act like that’s not a big like that’s how good they are. And if you get swept in the and and and somehow the Padres’s sweep the Mets, it’s I mean, we can we can be naive if we want, but we get three and a half, four games back at the Padres’s with the schedule that they have in September versus what we have. And and this is an excellent point as well. I mean, I if if the P if Padres’s pick up a game today and are four games ahead, like, you have to think they’re going to be way more like, hey, we got to we better we got this wrapped up. We’ve got to be aggressive and buy, too. So, yeah. I mean, there’s a lot that changes today. I mean, there’s two and four. I still don’t love the spot of being two games back. I still would ra I still think you have to be looking at multi-year guys, but I’m fine with them. I’m fine with them buying multiple year guys for sure. Um, yeah. I I Yeah, I would if you if you’re far back, you you should be selling the piece. You should be selling any of the pieces that aren’t aren’t nailed down beyond this year or and also I mean exploring some of the other ones. I don’t think they’ll explore the other ones. I I don’t think they they have that in them, but we’ll see. All right. I want to say this before we do supers. I hope can can people please just give give this guy a chance? Can you give him at least a couple weeks? C. Can you at least kind of wait and see what the defense looks like and and if that actually has some value? I think that’d be pretty cool. I think he deserves a little bit of a chance. He will. All right. He’ll get a chance. Uh, you reading them? You want me to read them? Uh, I can read them. Uh, big red machine. I’ve always said I love the big red machine. It says, “This is a very, very good trade, but still more still more to moves come.” I think sometimes I got to like try to reread these things. This is a very very good trade with still more moves to come. Uh people need to understand this is a gold glove guy and Marte becomes our right field big bat. Hayes key key term here. I got to make sure I specify this. That’s is H A with multiple years of control. I like it. Says the big red machine. Thank you for supporting the show. Um we got Nate Seltzer coming in. says, “I better see quote. We have designated for assignment Santiago Espanol.” End quote. Soon we do not need Hayes and Espano. Sal Stewart, welcome to first base as well. Let’s also beat the Dodgers tonight and void the sweep. Uh oh, thank you for being a member Nate for 16 months. That’s big time. Um we also have I want to add something to that really quickly. Let’s be very careful about just automatically assuming that these prospects that are going to be here come up auto automatically are going to be like great. Like it’s just unfair to Sal Stewart to think he’s supposed to be the guy that comes in uh what on the white night and and saves everybody. Like it’s just not realistic to expect that. The guy wasn’t even expected to make his major league debut in my opinion till 2026. like it it it just seems like just because this guy got red hot, we don’t we did that we did that with a lot of other guys that currently are sitting in AAA or at least one of them is. I’ll tell you what I would say. I would I would ride or die if we’re if we’re in the selling mode. Give me CES and let me just see it. I want to see it for two full months and if he’s the world’s worst first baseman, by God, that’s fine. We can be done with it. But I’d like to see it. I mean, I I’ve already seen enough out of the first base DH spot enough this year to see that it’s not good enough offensively. Um, so that’s that. Uh, Big Red Machine says Hayes ES has been playing very unhappy in Pittsburgh. We all would too. New team will make him happy and he will hit better. We hope so. I’m not totally bought in on that. I mean, I I think that’s a little bit of rose rosecolored glasses mentality of thinking that, oh, if he just comes to Cincinnati, it’ll all fix itself. That’s what they’ve always said about us, you know. Uh I don’t know. I don’t I’m not There’s a chance. There’s a chance. Of course, there’s always a chance. Keep it as a chance. There’s a chance. There’s reason to have some hope that it could happen, but it’s a chance. Exactly. Uh Justin Edgel says, “This is an insulting move.” That’s funny. I mean, it’s funny. At least he got me to laugh. I like that big red machine, man. Did he get paid today or what? Golly. Uh, we also may have recouped our Candelario debacle with multi-year control. Still like the trade new environment with proper hitting coach and he gets to play next to Ellie. Big red machines just proper proper hitting. He’s just kind of like corporate America twisting them words around. He’s just like, you know, what’s a better way of saying exceptional, exquisite? Let’s use that one. Sounds more elegant. You know, it’s like, all right, I like it, though. New environment with proper hitting coach. That’s what they always said about the Cincinnati Reds. Got one of the best hitting coaches in the game. That’s what I see on the chat every single night. Boy, when Valleica gets a hold of him, he is going to be ripping fast balls over the fence just like everyone else we have on this team. Is Big Red Machine Vala’s wife? Might be. I don’t know. All I know is that Valleica is under the weather more times than not. Uh Ned Flanders says, “We didn’t Didn’t we hear the same story when we got Kevin?” Oh, come on. No, you’re gonna You’re gonna compare concrete feet Kevin Newman to Brian Hayes. Come on, man. Gold glove defense, but light on the hitting. Does this move move the needle in 2025? We’ve already touched on that. That probably super chat was a while ago. No, it does not move the needle at all. It does. is is you know what this is? This is a this is a this is a in my opinion a buy lower type on a guy that they think that can only move up. You’ve seen the worst baseball that he could possibly play. At least that’s what we’re hoping. He’s better than Espanol. He’s better than Espanol. I I think he has I think he has a profile that could get hot easier than Espanol, too. So, yeah. It’s going to be really sick when we turn around. It’s gonna be really sick when when crawl turns us around and he trades Hayes to someone else for something and then all a sudden we spend an hour talking about how he could change our friend. I did I did that once on a on an old show for a uh a rule five pick. Spent like an hour and he got turned around. I was like, “Yeah, not that hour. You’re in an hour. It’s going to be like Hayes and Hayes. They’re headed to uh wherever. I don’t even know.” Well, and then I could jump on and just say, you know, Brian Hayes suck. That guy was terrible. That’s right. What a boss. What a I mean, yeah, this guy, he didn’t really care about playing hard, you know, character guy. Although, uh, Cody did say no character issues. I did like that. I think basically Cody, you know what’s funny about Cody? I think he basically had the same sentiment towards Hayes as we do Espanol to a certain extent. It’s like, ah, you guys can have him. Really good defender. You’ll like that. We’ll see. Uh, Forson Forson says, “Uh, sports track shows Hayes ES contract 2026 7 million, 2027 7 million, 2028, uh, 20 2028 8 million, 2029, 8 million, 2030, 12 million. Uh, am I missing something? That seems very cheap.” You know what’s funny about that? More you mention it, you know how we always do this in sport? I did it. I think I did it personally when Pat Mahomes signed his first deal and then all of a sudden you realize like three years later you’re like they’re paying Pat Mahomes how much per year? It’s like how the hell did they get away with that? Well, I bet I would love there’d be nothing better, Nick, in 2029 if you got a guy that bounces back and has one of the one of the best, you know, one of the best career turnarounds you’ve ever seen. You got a guy that’s one of the top 10 def third baseman in the entire league and he’s making $8 million. Just food for thought. That would uh Yeah, I mean that would uh that would be or he’s DFA in 2027 and we you know whatever possible that’s possible too. Leave it at the table said uh if this is one of the moves I’m cool with it and love it. If this is the move I got complaints. I think we all have complaints as if if this is the move. In fact, it’s so it’s so far away from being the move, it can’t be the move, right? You know what I’m saying? It’s almost like uh what’s a terrible what’s a horrible I’m always good at giving horrible analogies. Um I don’t know. It’s almost like you feel like you show up at at a wedding and someone gives you a card and there’s like nothing in it at all and you’re kind of like in the back of your mind you’re thinking like there’s got to be something more than this card, right? And typically 99.9% of the time there is. I would say that’s what this is. There’s there’s 0% chance that this front office was like you know what we need we need help offensively. Let’s go out and get Krian Hayes. Well, ironically, it might be uh wanting this to be more moves and and some people are going to want to be more moves one way and some people are going to want it be more moves the other way. So, all right. Uh there was a post that was made today about uh about Hayes and his chronic back injury. We’ll get to that in a second. Grant Thurman 7245 says, “Uh, what’s that? I was this the last one, but then Ned Flanders just pumped Look at Andrew Vaughn’s stats this year with CWS and Milwaukee. Uh CWS obviously is the White Socks. It can happen. See, I wouldn’t go too far into I mean I I I get the sentiment and yeah, I think that’s possible. I mean, I think a new environment can certainly spark. I I think that sometimes can be a little overblown, though. So, there’s another super chat that came in that made me laugh. Ned Flanders says, “Last night was fun, guys. Thanks for the shirt. And Stern lectures about Luis Robert Jr., best you YouTube show out there. Thanks again.” Wait, wait, was Ned Flanders there? I guess that’s my that’s my favorite thing about when we do these things is that nobody really wants them to know who who they are, you know? Like, I didn’t know that Ned was there. Ned’s an oldtimer, though. Uh there’s another super chat that just came in. Alex Unzer says, “Uh, Tito’s Tito’s rolling in his boat chair now. Who’s he gonna pull to throw Espanol in for this?” That’s funny, dude. I don’t know. I think it’s going to be funnier when he when he when he pulls the DH and I don’t even know if you can do that. I don’t think you can, but it would be funny. Be funny if you could just start pinch hitting espanol for the TH. Is Ephanol gone? Does this gonna get optioned? Does he get I don’t know. I don’t really know. I I tell you what, I’ll tell you I’ll tell you I’ll tell you right now I’ll tell you right now that you’re not going to like it and I don’t think many of the fan base would like it. But uh and the reason for that is because his value is insanely low. But like Matt Mlan’s another guy that you could make you could make a case that if they I’m I’m just telling you they’re not going to get anything for it. So you don’t do it. But maybe there’s a team that loves Matt Mlan and they’re like, “You know what? Yeah, I think it should be the Cincinnati Reds. Well, yeah, it could be, but I’m just telling you there’s You can make it the case that I don’t know. I’m I’m not I’m not going to rule anything out. So, who knows? Uh, as far as far as uh there is a quote here, Aspen Rifel from Marlay games. Stop it. Get out of here. All right. Get out of here. We’re done with that joke. Uh, we’re done with that joke. Uh the bad news, uh there’s a quote here that uh came out of what looked like a story out of Pittsburgh. There was quote, “The back injury that I have, it’s chronic.” End quote. Hayes told reporters permlb.com, Alex Stump. It’s not quote, “It’s not something that’s ever going to go away. It’s just how good can I manage it to where my symptoms are almost non-existent.” That’s the challenge I have. This off seasonason, I dedicated it towards anything that I can do as far as the recovery stuff, the diet, all that. That’s something I’m going to continue to hit on the head with a nail every day just to be out there.” End quote. Um, so I guess maybe that’s what they had mentioned for the injury history. Um, I don’t know. Sounds like a guy that maybe wanted out of Pittsburgh, too. I don’t know. That’s that’s what I’m going to go with. I’d have a chronic back problem, too, if I had to play for that team every single day. That’s all that’s all of course all due respect to Cody. Yeah. Now, now you’re now you’re digging up chronic back injuries currently. No, I was I was reading something else. Uh Resin 4 tweeted something out, retweeted someone who said that Hayes’s career average 11 homers, 84 WRC plus, and 3.1 wins above replacement per 162 games. If he played in Cincinnati, it would be 17 home runs, 90 W wrc plus, and 3.4. four wins a replacement. Fresno 4 is retweeting him. I’m assuming that he’s someone that has some sort of actual um calculation that gets that. So, it’s not going to hurt him to play a great American ballpark. Didn’t hurt Austin Hayes. I will tell you this, he needs to get back to his former self significantly more than the fact that the ballpark’s going to help him play better. Yes, I agree 100%. The fix is the fix is not really going to be just changing ballparks. Yeah. Yeah. I do think that the culture I think the culture, the scenery, the whole nine yards of that that could that could help. Yes. Got to be energizing for him. I mean, for sure. I think so. Yeah. And he gets to play. He does get to play next to Ellie. And I know some people are going to like make that make that to be like it’s not a big deal. Um I think that matters. You going from Isaiah Ker Falafa to Ellie De La Cruz. Yeah. Boy, they got him too, man. They got a bunch of Santiago Espanols. Maybe they just Maybe they just confused the Why didn’t we include Why didn’t we include Espanol in the deal back over to them? That seems like that would have been even more funny. Yeah, it kind of feels like, you know, here, we’ll give you a player. It’ll be interesting to see if Espanol does end up somewhere. I Yeah. Is he got value to a team that’s got unbelievable unbelievable team and and you’re looking for a guy that can come play defense late in games? Because I would say that he does, but I I don’t know. I really don’t know the league. He has hit lefties well throughout his career. I know right now it feels like the dude can’t hit anything. He has hit lefties really well throughout his career. Um that’s fair. So like I I if you’re a team that that desperately needs someone to hit lefties that can play multiple positions. Yeah. I mean I think that that he helps. Right. That’s fair. Uh if you haven’t already, please do us a favor. Like hit the like button. Uh that would mean a lot to us. We appreciate that. And uh we we we try to be on here live as fast as we humanly can to uh to have fun discussions on what’s going on, not only for the Reds, but uh anything that else affects the Reds. So, um many of you maybe are in here for the very first time. We are going to go live in the ninth inning of every single Reds game. So, if you haven’t checked that out, you can check that out tonight. Hopefully, it’s uh the Cincinnati Reds finding a way to beat the Los Angeles Dodgers for the first time this series and put themselves back within two games of the wild card. If it’s not and they’re four games out of the wild card, I am going to assume that uh that we probably are going to be uh drowning in our misery a little bit and then also talking about how we can find ways to do that. And Nick, you can promo the Yeah, pregame shows uh starts in an hour and a half. So, uh we’ll be off uh join join for the pregame show. Who was it? Uh my my phone has just been blowing up obviously this afternoon. Um, I think it’s Max and uh Ricky are doing it at at uh six o’clock. So, join those guys. Uh content all day. Chatterbox Sports. Let’s go. Yep. Uh Nick, anything else to get to before we uh before we head off into the sunset? Uh no, just uh just a reminder, make sure you’re subscribed here to Chatterbox Sports. Hit that bell, turn on notifications so you’re notified anytime we go live. Uh, I’ve got the uh next uh 20 five and a half hours uh booked off. So, uh uh if anything happens, um hopefully someone will call me if I’m asleep and I’ll wake up and I’ll roll out of bed and do a show. We’ll roll and we’ll be live at some point tomorrow uh for the trade deadline. Um just going to kind of feel it out a little bit. But I’ll be live when it goes across the the goal line at 6 for sure. We’ll go live probably much earlier than that. But again, turn on notifications. Massive game tonight. Uh I know people want to make things out like they’re just one of 162 sometimes, and for the for the most part, they very much are that for for the vast majority of the season, but the truth of the matter is is that there’s decisions that are currently getting made as we speak in my humble opinion on whether or not this baseball team is two games out of a wild card or they’re four games out. And maybe they’ll sit at three and then at that point, that is an incredibly difficult decision to make. I will I will uh not envy Nick Crawl and his gang on what they have to do at that point. But I will openly say I think in my humble opinion whether you’re two games out or four games out is the difference in whether you buy semi-aggressively or you sell and you just move on from a lot of those pieces that perhaps could help you like Hayes. And by Hayes I mean Hays. All right. Equally as big of a game just got underway. uh Mets and Padres’s top second, no score. Klay Holmes against U Darvish. So yeah, I mean you could be two games back or four games back at the end of the night and that’s a incredible swing. Final thing as we uh end the show, this shows you how difficult of a decision it is. I put out a poll. Should the Reds buy or sell end of the year free agents buy 48% sell 52%. Not an easy decision. It’s not an easy decision and we find ourselves sitting right in the middle of it all. All right, we’ll be back better than ever later. Hope you enjoy the rest of your day. We’ll be back maybe in 30 minutes when we find out they flipped Key Brian Hayes for somebody else and we wasted an hour doing the show. Till then, take care. We love you. Appreciate you. Hit the like button on the way out and uh enjoy your night.

Trade:
Cincinnati Reds receive: Ke’Bryan Hayes 3B
Pittsburgh Pirates receive: Sammy Safura SS (Low-A Prospect) & Taylor Rogers RP

Trace Fowler and Nick Kirby welcome Special Guest: Kody Duncan to discuss the Ke’Bryan Hayes trade to the Reds!

The Cincinnati Reds acquired third baseman Ke’Bryan Hayes from the Pittsburgh Pirates in a significant intra-division trade ahead of the MLB trade deadline. The Pirates received left-handed reliever Taylor Rogers and shortstop prospect Sammy Stafura in return. Hayes, 28, is renowned for his elite defensive skills, having won a Gold Glove in 2023 and leading all MLB third basemen with 21 Defensive Runs Saved that year. His defensive prowess, ranking in the top one percent in outs above average, makes him a valuable asset for the Reds, who have struggled with a .620 OPS at third base, ranking 28th in the league.
However, Hayes’ offensive performance has been lackluster, with a career-low .569 OPS in 2025, slashing .236/.279/.290 with two home runs and 36 RBIs in 100 games. Despite a promising 2023 season (.271/.309/.453, 15 HRs), his bat has regressed, with recurring back injuries cited as a factor. The Reds are taking on the entirety of Hayes’ eight-year, $70 million contract, with $36 million owed through 2029 and a $12 million club option for 2030, hoping a change to the hitter-friendly Great American Ball Park will revive his offensive potential.
For the Pirates, trading Hayes, a former first-round pick and franchise cornerstone, sheds long-term financial commitments and nets Rogers, a veteran with a 2.45 ERA in 2025, and Stafura, a 20-year-old second-round pick ranked as Cincinnati’s No. 9 prospect. The move signals Pittsburgh’s focus on rebuilding, as they sit last in the NL Central. The Reds aim to bolster their infield defense and flexibility, potentially shifting Noelvi Marte to the outfield, while chasing a Wild Card spot.

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Andrew Abbott, Julian Aguiar, Graham Ashcraft, Scott Barlow, Emilio Pagán, Fernando Cruz, Alexis Díaz, Hunter Greene, Nick Lodolo, Nick Martinez, Tony Santillan, Carson Spiers, Brent Suter, Rhett Lowder, Brandon Williamson, Tyler Stephenson, José Trevino, Jeimer Candelario, Christian Encarnacion-Strand, Matt McLain, Elly De La Cruz, Santiago Espinal, Jonathan India, Noelvi Marte, Edwin Ríos, Will Benson, TJ Friedl, Jake Fraley, Stuart Fairchild, Austin Hays, Spencer Steer, Jacob Hurtubise, Blake Dunn

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