Dante Scarnecchia dives deep on how the Patriots can get the MOST out of Will Campbell

Dante Scarnecchia dives deep on how the Patriots can get the MOST out of Will Campbell

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] What’s up everybody? Welcome into the Next Pats podcast. I’m Phil Perry, very excited to bring you this week’s edition of Next Pats, a week one edition. And who better to talk about this week than the number four overall pick, Will Campbell, the left tackle out of LSU. This is what we do on Next Paths. We’re talking about their young players. We’re talking about their core, their foundation for the future, and Will Campbell certainly falls into that category. Let’s give you just a quick little taste of his mindset going into week one of the regular season. His first regular season NFL matchup against the Raiders. He had that great preseason opener, especially in the run game where he’s pancaking people 15, 20 yards down the field. You know, he’s hoping to have another one or two of those against Vegas this weekend. I think, you know, anytime you go out there is That’s kind of anybody’s mindset is, you know, you want to dominate. Uh, but yeah, I mean, that’s, you know, kind of what we preach around here, just playing hard. Uh, but I mean, it’s really, you know, the whole team’s goal to go out there and just play hard and, you know, leave everything on the field. So, if our focus this week is going to be on that guy, Will Campbell, who else are we going to bring in other than the great Dante Scaria to break down Will Campbell’s game, how he would handle him as he goes into his first professional matchup potentially against one of the best pass rushers in the NFL in Raiders defensive end, Max Crosby. Phenomenal insight from Dante Scaria. As always, every time he comes on the next Pats podcast, here’s our conversation. There he is, our good friend Dante Scarnia, Patriots Hall of Famer, legendary offensive line coach. Dante, thanks so much for being with us here again on Next Expats. You are far and away, far and away our number one favorite guest here on the Expats podcast. Thank you, sir. You’re very kind to say that. I think it’s a little bit hyperbole on your part, but let’s move on. No, you’ve been with us from the beginning. You you’ve been with us uh many times on this podcast. We really appreciate you. always give us the insight that we need when it comes to this part of the game that hand up I don’t understand all that well. I’ll admit it. I think it’s part of the game that uh people at home would love to understand more about. So, it’s great to have you on with us. And I want to ask you first about uh this year’s group, Dante, because there is one sort of big picture conversation. Uh there’s obviously one big individual player on the left side that I want to ask you about too and Will Campbell. first sort of the bigger picture interest for me is that they have two rookies who look like they’re going to be starting on the same side of the offensive line. And I wanted to ask you, I was trying to think back, Dante, you could correct me. I can remember maybe 2016 you had two rookies starting on the line, but I don’t think they were next to each other. It was Caris and Tuni at right guard and left guard. But have you dealt with this kind of challenge before? What kind of challenge is it for this Patriots offense to have two really young players playing alongside each other? Well, I think you know, you deal with that stuff every year. You know, Solder started the very first game he ever played here. He was a very high 17th player taken in the draft and a good football player and he was out there, you know, very early in the process. And that’s true for all these guys. And so I think the big thing, the most important thing is that they’ve had uh all the things necessarily necessary to give them an opportunity to be successful. That is to say, you know, OTAAS, mini camp, training camp, joint practices, all that stuff. All it all counts for something. And you sincerely hope that they’ve had enough of those things that will allow them to not be just aruck when they walk on the field and get out there for the first series and are able to be the kind of players we all hope they can be. Is there anything you would do as a coach to help prevent them from being quote unquote aruck? Are there ways you can simplify things for young players like that or do you just have to throw everything at them that that you feel is necessary to have success at a high level and just hope they can keep up? Yeah. Well, I think again going back to last spring and then you know through this summer, all that again counts for something. So you’re training them every day. You’re giving them new calls. You’re giving them new plays. You’re giving them new experiences. all the things that we hope will be transcendent and give them enough to where when it happens in the first game, and it will happen in the first game. What those guys are going to do on Sunday, those guys being the Raiders, is they’re watching those three preseason games as well, and they’re saying, “All right, well, there’s a chance these two guys may start side by side.” Well, what, you know, here’s something they didn’t handle very well in the preeason. Believe me, they won’t wait a long time before they fire that bullet. So, they got, you know, but but the good news is, you know, they’re getting coached too on this end of it and they’re saying, “Hey, we got to do better than this was in preseason because these guys are going to run this at you.” There’s no doubt they do it. So, you just got to prepare them for many as many of those things as you possibly can. Yeah, it’s really interesting. The first thing that I think about when you mentioned, you know, maybe some of the issues that that Will Campbell and Jr Wilson had in the preseason, and they didn’t get a ton of snaps together in the preseason, but early in that first preseason game at Gillette Stadium, the Commanders run a a game or a stunt and they had a little bit of difficulty passing it off. And so, my guess is that’s what you’re anticipating from Pete Carroll and his defense when the Raiders come to town. There’s no doubt they’re going to see if you got it fixed. It just happens. And if you the first time they run it, it’s successful, you can bet it’s going to happen a bunch more. Until you fix it, it’s going to happen a bunch more. But, you know, again, these guys practice every day. This is what it’s all for. I’m not tell I’m not saying anything that any coach and especially a guy that’s as good a coach as Doug Marone, he understands it. And so, I’m sure they’re preparing them for these situations. Yeah, I’m sure the players understand it, too. I just haven’t had the chance to talk to both of those guys, Wilson and Campbell. They’re both really bright guys and so they are, I’m sure, uh, aware of the fact that they’re going to be tested and tested early in all likelihood. Dante, I know you still follow and you still watch and I I know you watch some of these preseason games. I did want to get your take on on Will Campbell. You know, number four overall pick. Again, not somebody who played a ton in the way of, you know, competitive snaps against other starters, especially in the preseason, but what were your takeaways having watched him a little bit this summer? I I really I love the motor that he has. He’s a dynamic run blocker and a great finisher, all those things. He competes on every down. There’s plenty there that would that we all saw that you would say, “Okay, that’s why he’s here.” And and then there’s things that you look at and say, “Well, he’s got to get that fixed or he’s got to get this fixed.” And but that’s what this process is all about. There’s very few of these guys, in fact, I don’t know many of them that come in and and succeed initially as well as they did in college. There’s a transition period here. And I think that um I think that it’s just, you know, what’s happened so far is just that part of the process. Now, let’s see how it goes. And then the other thing, one other thing that I would say relative to these two players side by side and getting ready for their first game, I hope they’re sitting next to each other in every meeting. And I and by that I mean they say, “Okay, you know, here’s the call for that so that they see that game, the game that they’re going to play next to each other through one set of eyes instead of two set of eyes, you know, where, well, I thought it would be this or I thought it would be that.” All that has to get resolved in these meetings as they prepare for, you know, that that Raider, the defense for the Raiders is going to be well coached and they got some good players on it and so they better be at their best because, you know, it’s going to happen. The other thing that I’m interested to see is who’s starting at right tackle. Is Moses going to be the right tackle? Yes, sir. Yeah, that that should be the case. He’s been healthy and so he should be out there on the right side. Has he played many preseason snaps? I don’t think he played a single preseason snap. Now, he did get a good amount of work in those preseason joint practices and so, you know, we saw some good competition there. Yeah, I think that’s great. And he’s playing with an experienced guy like on Wenu. But I think the key issue, you know, is that um, you know, he’s just we just got to hope that he’s got enough of that rust knocked off him and is able to get out there for long periods of time and be the kind of player everyone hopes he can be. Now, when it comes to Will Dante, knowing you’re not in there with him every day and coaching him up and you’re certainly not calling him out, I know that’s not your style at all, but I am curious when you watch him if you say, “Oh, there’s some things that he might have to get fixed there.” What What stands out to you? Well, I think just the transition between the quality of players and at even in the Southeast Conference, which is excellent, and then to come to this level and okay, this guy’s a lot faster than some of the guys I’ve ever played against or really great pass rush moves. He’s practiced against every day guys like White and Jennings and you know uh Classen I guess his name is all the I mean he’s got he’s seeing the kind of speed that he’s going to get. It’s just you know it’s just different when the lights are going to go on or that game’s going to start on Sunday. It’s just different. So, I would suspect, you know, it’s not going to be uh he’s not ever going to be starruck. I I don’t even I’ve never met the guy, but I he’s played at such a high level and played very well uh against great competition that I it’s it’s going to be okay. All right, I got to do this, I got to do that, you know, and I my expectations for him are very high and I think he’ll do well. And I know it’s on the TV copy when you’re watching him. And again, it’s not a ton of reps, but his length was something that we talked about a lot leading up to the draft. You and I talked about arm length sort of in general in offensive tackles, especially uh for a piece that I did on NBC Sportsboston.com. Did Did his length show up to you at all in the preseason, Dante? You’ve worked with with shorter armed tackles in the past. Matt Light is the first one who comes to mind, but does any of that show up in uh many maybe any of the snaps that that you were able to watch? You know, I don’t think it has honestly. I think that, you know, the the the technique things, he’s got great feet. He bends very well. He’s quick to where he needs to be, you know, to the junction point, getting there before the defensive guys get there. And it looks like he has improved his hand usage as it goes forward. You you know and even in the sec against the players that he played against, he can be a dominant guy, but there’s so many of these guys that are just really really skilled and uh he’s going to have to use all the tools in his box if he’s going to be successful against these guys. You know, the length he has, he’s got to he’s got to maximize it to the highest level possible. And I suspect that he will. And you mentioned, you know, he is quick and he tested through the roof when it came to some of the athletic testing numbers at this year’s combine, like historically good. One of the things that we’ve noticed, and it didn’t maybe necessarily show up as much in the preseason games, and so maybe it’s one of those things that that he was able to improve upon as the summer went on, but every once in a while in practice, Dante, whether it was in the one-on- ones or even in some of the 11on1 periods, he would use that quickness to to get outside and get to that junction point that you talk about. and then maybe every once in a while he’d get beat inside by a counter move and and a really good athlete on the edge, you know, putting his foot in the ground and and going the opposite direction. How would you try to to help him on that front as an offensive line coach? Is there something that he can do to guard against both? You know, you want to use that quickness to get out to where he needs to get to, but then maybe he’s he’s leaving himself a little bit vulnerable inside at times. Yeah, I I really believe this and you know uh when you work for Bellich like I did for such a long time, nothing irked him more than to see a pass blocker set a guy to his outside in particular, let’s say as a tackle, you ever set a guy nose tonose when he’s lined up outside of you? That’s a big mistake. And the reason is you give him three places to go inside, through you, or around you. If you set him inside out, okay, you’re really giving them two places to go through you or outside of you. And so we always have harped on inside out. And the other thing that I think is really important that goes along with that, and people may or may not be able to understand this, but the blocker always wants to have his weight inside the midline of his body. If your weight’s in to on your inside half, that’s your strongest side and coincidentally the shortest path to the quarterback. So if you get your weight too far to the outside, especially in your upper body, you know, you’re it it’s just they’re going to see it. They’re going to club you and they’re going to have the shortest distance. So I think those are the most important things that, you know, we’ve always taught that we always harped on that we always felt were important that give them two places to go but never give them three. always carry, and this is true for the guards and true for the centers against offset nose tackles, always have the inside half of your body as your strongest side, your most dominant side, cuz that’s the shortest distance to the quarterback. And and I’m sure he understands that. I’m sure he’s working on and I’m sure his coaches have told him it a thousand times. Well, that’s such great detail and it gives us just such a great window into how athletic these guys have to be. You know, if you’re listening to us or watching us at home, you know, try shuffling to your left as fast as you can while also keeping your weight on your right side or or most of your weight on your right side. That’s what Dante’s describing there. Really difficult thing to do, especially if you’re 6’6″, 320 lbs the way Will Campbell is. So, um he’ll have a challenge on his hands. Now, Dante, you mentioned, you know, the games and the stunts that he might face, but he also might face a great individual pass rusher and Max Crosby who has great length and so will be a really interesting matchup if those two guys go against each other. Now, Crosby for the most part over the course of his career, it seems like has felt more comfortable rushing off the offensive right because that’s where he’s played most of his snaps, but you never know. It’s week one. They could be ready to to unleash him on the rookie. if you guys were going against, and you did, you saw so many great pass rushers during your career as offensive line coach, and you and Josh McDaniel spent so much time together, I’m sure, scheming up how to slow these guys down. How would you try to slow down a great individual, physically gifted player like Crosby? Well, the number one thing that everyone talks about all the time is have the back chip that guy. you know, be out on the outside outside the tackle where that pass rusher sees the back and they’re not as always crazy about, you know, well, I got my focus on that tackle. Here comes this back in here and he blows up, you know, my outside ribs. That sounds good. Okay, it takes a real man in that back to be able to do that. And the other downside to that is that back isn’t nearly as effective getting out and catching the ball as you’d like him to be. But if he releases out there on to the tackles outside, it kind of gives a little bit of a doubt in the pass rusher’s mind. This guy going to hit me or not? And then by then the tackle’s fully under control, has his weight where it’s supposed to be, hands up, ready to go and get him taken on. That’s one way to do it. Another thing, another way to do it is to have the tight end there where that pass rusher. Now, if I line up inside the tight end, I’m vulnerable. If I line up outside the tight end, I’m too wide. And so, having putting him in that situation helps the tackle because now the tackle doesn’t have a free an an ex exposed edge where this guy can just take off and just do all the things he wants to do. So that helps a great deal whether you’re just releasing the tight end or having him chip that defensive end. But you know the the thing that I we always you know those are ways to handle it. Slide the protection to a a dynamic pass rusher as much as you can. You can’t always do it but when you can you do and so all those things are going to be taking place. We used to run a lot of fiveman protection five open receivers empty. Okay, I love empty protection. You know why? The ball was always out fast. Always out fast. And I I’m going to say this and everybody’s going to laugh at it because he’s the greatest ever played. You know, especially with Brady, you you could tell when when we go go empty before the ball was snapped, he knew we was where he was going and it would catch it, get set, let it go. That help. That’s so demoralizing to pass rushers. They’re so geeked up. They want to get up the field. They want to run the edge. They want to do all those things, but before they can do it, the ball’s out and then they got to turn and go chase the ball. And then you do it again. They got to go turn and chase the ball. And it has a wearing down effect on those guys. So, I’m not saying they’re going to do that. I know they do it. But, you know, all those things combined are ways that you can slow people down. Throwing the ball in rhythm is huge, Phil. If you, you know, this is designed to get the ball out on the fifth or seventh step. And, you know, all that stuff really helps a great deal. And Josh has a tremendous amount of experience, as do all those coaches there right now. And I’m I would suspect, you know, they’re all unilaterally on the same page as to what we have to do and how we have to do it and how best we can make this uh a possible thing to have success against a dynamic guy like Crosby. He’s really good. He’s really good. Well, Dante, it’s going to be fascinating to see how they handle him and the rest of that Raiders defense on Sunday. Thank you so much for being with us here on NextPs for teaching me about offensive line play, for teaching our audience about offensive line play. You are the best, my friend. And your spot at top the alltime list of next Pat’s guests. It’s secured, my friend. It’s secured. Thanks a lot, Phil. You do a great job, and I really appreciate you having me on. Phenomenal stuff there from Dante Scaria. Thanks so much to him. Coming up on the next Pats podcast, we’re talking some college football. Let’s highlight some potential Patriots draft picks in 2026. We’re going to do this every single week on the next Pats podcast. It’s our who’s next segment. We’re also taking some of your questions in our mailbag. It’s all coming up on Next Pats. Don’t move. All right, welcome back to the Next Pats podcast. We’re going to launch right into our who’s next segment. This is where we are going to identify some potential Patriots draft picks. I know the draft’s a long way off in 2026, but it is never too early. You know it, I know it. So, let’s get right into it. And let’s start with a player you know Mike Vrabel will love out of the Ohio State University. It’s safety Caleb DS. Now, he’s not the biggest. He’s right around six feet, maybe even below 200 lb. He’s not the fastest either, but he is incredibly intelligent. He was part of that Ohio State defense that really flumxed Arch Manning and the Texas offense last week. He can get sideline to sideline and he will come downhill and play violently. You know, Mike Vrabel will love that as well. A lot of turnover in that safety room here in New England. And they do have Craig Woodson. They do like Jaylen Hawkins. But if he can be a staple for this defense moving forward, that is something that the Patriots should be interested in. Keep an eye on Caleb DS. He will be one of the best players in the draft for 2026. Next up, out of Arizona State, a receiver. Don’t have the Keel Harry flashbacks on me, friends. It’s Jordan Tyson. 6’2, about 200 lb. He is a contested catch maven and he has all kinds of yards after the catch ability. He caught 12 passes for 141 yards and two scores against Northern Arizona last week. He’ll have a little bit more difficult matchup potentially this weekend against Mississippi State. But again, keep an open mind. This is not Nquille Harry. This is somebody who has the potential to be the kind of number one receiver the Patriots don’t have. He should be a first round pick next spring. Finally, let’s go to Ruben Bane, the edge defender out of Miami. Talk about violent. He absolutely took the Notre Dame offensive line to the woodshed last week. He picked up five pressures, a hit, and a sack, and just 16 true dropbacks for that Notre Dame offense. He was dominant. They couldn’t stop him. And here in New England, yes, you have Harold Landry. Yes, you’ve had a nice find and Kavon Chson, but are either of those guys necessarily the long-term answer at one of the most important positions on the football field. Never a bad idea to add pass rush help, especially early in the draft where the freakiest of the freaks tend to go. Ruben Bane looks like one of them freaks. All right, let’s finish this edition of Next Pats out with a little mailbag. We have a couple questions here that I think are really important for us to hit on before the first game of the season. First one’s from Carlos Lopez. He says, “Hi, Phil. How would you imagine the running back touches play out in the season opener? Do you think it’ll be a heavy rotation throughout the drives or do you think we could see a specific running back dominate the snaps early on? Thanks, Carlos. It’s a great question and to me it’s going to shed some light. However the Patriots choose to handle it will shed some philosophical light on how Josh McDaniels is going to handle this position in 2025. His history has been for these guys, these running backs to have very specific roles. Think Legar Blunt early down hammer, right? James White, true third down back. Deion Lewis, sort of a doit all reserve type. You can start him if you need to, but you probably don’t want to go the entirety of the season having that guy handle the football 20 25 times because he’s just not built for it. So until further notice, I’m going to assume that Josh McDaniels is going to have these three backs, Raandre Stevenson, Tayvon Henderson, and Antonio Gibson in very specific roles. My guess is they’re going to want the bigger back, Stephvenson, to handle the bulk of the early down work with Antonio Gibson, who has some good size as well, being able to spell him at times. Whereas Tayvon Henderson, you get your third down specialty there. You have your two minute, your hurry up back in Tvon Henderson because he is so effective in the pass game. Had such a tremendous summer. Now I think they should use Henderson even more than that. But he’s about 5’10, about 200 lb. And if you want him to handle the football 25 times a game like he’s a true three down workhorse back, you might not have him for very long. So until further notice, let’s assume that these roles are going to be divvied up into very specific subsets. But perhaps there is always the chance, and again, I think they should do it. They give Henderson the ball more because he is that true home run threat who is liable to score from anywhere on the field, wherever he touches it. Next question. Let’s get right to chewing gum with Lloyd Braun. He says, “Phil, how are we feeling about Kyle Williams? There seems to be a lot more talk about the rest of the Patriots rookie class, including the undrafted rookies. Lloyd, I agree. And Kyle Williams has flown a little bit under the radar. Unfortunately for him, he suffered that head injury in the preseason against the Minnesota Vikings, he had really been coming on in practices leading up to that game. And I would even argue in the preseason game against the Commanders, he had two different scoring opportunities. one from down in tight in the red zone right at the goal line. One deep down the field where Josh Dobs just simply couldn’t connect with him. Then in the joint practices against Minnesota soon thereafter he’s getting open again deep down the field just can’t connect with Drake May. I thought those were two of maybe Drake May’s most weward throws were down the field to an open Kyle Williams. Otherwise, it was a pretty good pretty good excuse me two days of practice for May. But again, you were seeing Williams create separation on a regular basis. And then in Minnesota, he starts to make some plays there as well and ends up getting hurt. So, we should be talking more about Kyle Williams. I do think based on how they’ve used receivers in practice, guys like Stefon Diggs, Pop Douglas, Kahan Booty, and M. Hollands will all start ahead of Williams on the depth chart, but he gives them a real speed element that they don’t otherwise have. And so I wouldn’t be surprised even if it is a lighter workload for a third round rookie, if as early as week one, Kyle Williams has a real role as a return option, as a receiver, especially in specific situations if they want to test the Raiders deep. All right, that’s going to do it for this edition of the next Pats podcast. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much again to the great Dante Scarnia for joining us. will be right back here next week talking more Patriots football and about what might be coming next for them here on NextPatch. We’ll see you then. [Music]

Phil Perry talks with former Patriots offensive line coach, Dante Scarnecchia, to get his thoughts on the Patriots starting two rookies on the offensive line. How can the Patriots set their OL up for success this season? What’s Dante’s first impressions of Will Campbell? Later, Phil answers your questions and shares a few college players to keep an eye on this season.

2:45-Dante Scarnecchia on the Patriots starting 2 rookies on the offensive line
6:45-Dante love the “motor” of Will Campbell
12:30-Dante’s advice for Campbell taking it to the next level in the NFL
20:30-Who’s Next?! College players to keep an eye on
23:00-Next Pats mailbag

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