Giannis’ NBA Rank w/ Jason Timpf + #BucksPodFest w/ ‘Locked On Bucks’ (Hear District Ep. 80)

Giannis’ NBA Rank w/ Jason Timpf + #BucksPodFest w/ ‘Locked On Bucks’ (Hear District Ep. 80)

All right, welcome everybody here district. I am the captain of this vessel El Capitan of Vessel. Marcus Johnson, my son Chris Johnson, my first mate. What’s up, Chris? Listen, we are the only father and son in NCAA history, man. I got to get this in. This is important, Chris. This is important. We’re the only father and son in NCAA history to win a national championship at the same school. What’s up, champion man? Join us on the fantastic voyage by following us at Bucks plus audio across social media and subscribing to the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. You can also show us some love by commenting on this episode on the Bucks official YouTube channel and liking the video. And what an episode it is about to be. We’ve got Jason Tiff from Hoops Tonight at the volume. That’s the uh Colin Cowardd website, man. He made some sort of controversial statements about Giannis in terms of overall rankings where Giannis fits in the league. So, we have a chance to talk to him. And also, this is the maiden voyage of the Podfist where we bring in all these great Milwaukee Bucks podcasters tonight. Justin Garcia, Camille Davis, they kick us off, man, on the main voyage. But first, Justin tip right after this. The five time allstar Marcus Johnson alongside Marcus Johnson. What’s up everybody? This is the here district captain of this vessel and I got my first mate, my number one son, Christian Johnson. What up? Talk to me. Holl, let it rain, man. Let it rain. office. I go, “Guess what? We’re going back into pass.” Pass go. Welcome everybody to the here district market job. You’re listening to a Bucks Plus audio production on the Bucks Plus network. Your weekly pulse on the Milwaukee Bucks straight from a Bucks legend. This is Here District with Marcus Johnson alongside his son and 1995 NCAA champion Chris. Here’s MJ. All right, welcome back here District. Marcus Johnson. Chris Johnson on this fantastic voyage. And I guess the fantastic Boris Kristine hit some rough seas here recently because of this next guest we’re going to have on the show, Jason Temp, who is uh the host of Hoops Tonight uh on at the volume network. Now the volume network is uh Colin Coward’s network. He’s oftent times appearing on the show with Colin Cowardd who does an outstanding job. But Jason Temp, you say I got to spit when I said temp. Jason, welcome. Welcome to here, district, man. We we appreciate you. Appreciate you spending some time with us. Of course. It’s an absolute honor to be here with a couple of uh super accomplished basketball players as yourselves. And you know, it’s the summertime. I know I know there’s NFL football going on and it was a very good first weekend, but I I’m always thinking about basketball and this time of year, player ranking player rankings. It’s always fun to argue and quite frankly, there’s no way you can do this without getting in some trouble. So, I guess I’m in trouble with you guys today. Well, you know, and and it it it it generates conversation, you know, and and and that’s uh that’s what we want to do. And and you’re entitled to your opinion. Now, they say, you know, you know what they say about opinions, but everybody’s got one. And and uh and yours is not, you know, totally outlandish. I mean, yours yours crazy. Yeah. Yours is not crazy at all when you think about the three guys that you that you put ahead of Giannis. But basically, tell us just kind of re give us the um what’s the word I’m looking for, Chris? The the review of of what you what you said on Twitter that got the Milwaukee Bucks fandom kind of up in arms. So, the easiest way to do this sort of thing is to put players in tiers. I think Joic is clearly the best player in the league. He’s kind of on a tier by himself, or at least clearly the best player in that tier. I think once you get off of four from like four to from like five to 14, they’re all really close. Like like we’re like I had Kevin Durant at 11 this year. You could argue him at five. You could easily argue him up at five. You know, there’s it’s just really difficult to to split hairs between these guys. But in that tier from two, three, and four, all three of those guys, you put them at four, you’re going to piss off their fan base. You put them at two, you have a legitimate case to do it. For me, you know, a lot of it just came down to my kind of core basketball philosophy. And everyone has a different core basketball philosophy. My opinion is that it is easier to construct an elite defense around a superior offensive player than it is to construct and generate really high quality shots out of an elite defense. Meaning like look at the Denver Nuggets last year for instance. They were atrocious defensively all year, but through a schematic approach, through mixing in a ton of zone, dropping their pickup point, testing the decision making and the shot making of some of the younger Thunder players. The Nuggets got a lot of stops in that series, but like ultimately I I personally gravitate towards these super highlevel offensive players. And I think the big guy that everyone’s going to be frustrated about is Luca. And I understand that. The main thing for me is I’m always looking forward in my player rankings. Our criteria is just from October, so like the start of training camp to the end of June, who’s the best guy you can have? And so I’m looking at the Luca that’s playing in Euro Basket right now, not the fat guy that we saw last year, right? So like I think there’s a lot of people who are looking at Luca and kind of counting him out. And so I think that’s part of the issue. But Luca actually came in at number two for me because I think he’s the only other player in the league other than Joic who is a truly elite scorer and a truly elite playmaker which I think builds such an incredibly high floor for your offense. And so I’m a big believer in Giannis. We’re going to talk a lot about him as it pertains to this coming season. His growth as a playmaker and his ability to find shooters and cutters and the addition of his little mid-range jump shot that he’s making at such a high clip. I’m a big believer in Giannis, but for me, I thought his case for best player in the world was always his like relentless effort, motor, abil, and availability. And in the last few years, he’s missed half of their last 16 playoff games. He’s failed to play in 70 games and five of the last six seasons. He’s just reached a phase of his career where I look at him as more like kind of like when LeBron was in his early 30s where it’s like I trust him in the playoffs to hit a certain level defensively, but I don’t expect him to be the world beater every single night that he was in 2019. And so for him again, splitting hairs in a tier where all three of those guys are right next to each other, I put him in at four. Now, where did you have him last year? Let me just let me start with that. So, so you we it seems like he’s dropped. Where did you have him at the start of the season last year? Three. Last year I had him at three and I had Shay I had Shay at four and I had Luca at two. I’ve had Luca Ivid Joic Luca as one two the last two years and I had Giannis at three and I just flipped Shay over him this season because the thing with Shay is like you can book him for 75 games. Yeah. Every single season now because he’s in his mid20s and and he truly is the best scorer in the league at this point. So now here’s my question. You you you talked, I believe, about Giannis’s defensive slippage as being one of the reasons why he slipped down for you. Are we saying here that you still believe that Jokic and Luca are better defensive players than Giannis? Because that’s where I have an issue with with the with the criteria that you’re using in terms of defense. I just Shay I can see I can see, you know, with steals and then and what he can do at the defensive end. Luca and Joic. I mean, I know Yokic’s numbers. He’s effective. He’s effective. He’s effective. You look at the numbers, but man, I the eye test, Jason. I mean, you really think that they’re better defensive players than than guys? No. Giannis is the best player in that tier on defense by far, but it kind of goes back to what I was talking about earlier, like we’ve seen. The offense. Okay. The offense. The offense is excellent. Exactly. Like we’ve seen the Nuggets be able to use Contavius Cowwell Pope, Bruce Brown, and Aaron Gordon to build a championship defense around Joic and Joic in his supreme offensive gifts was able to lift them to the level they needed to get to offensively. Now, this is where it gets tricky because Giannis, I mean, he just put together another ridiculous playoff series against Indiana offensively and I really think he’s a better offensive player than he’s ever been. But I still what I keep coming down to with Giannis is he still isn’t super comfortable at the end of close games as like a halfcourt shot creator. He’s a he’s become a decent mid-range jump shooter. He’s going to make in the low 40s, you know, mid4s, but in the NBA that’s not a super efficient shot compared to Sheay who’s going to hit in the mid50s or Joic who’s going to hit 60% of his short twos. like those guys are just so much more reliable at the end of games running offense in the half court that for me Giannis would need to be the guy he was in like 2019 and 2020 which was maybe the second or third best defender in the entire league and every night for 70 plus games was just crushing teams with his defense whereas now he’s like a guy where yeah if game five is tomorrow and it’s 2-2 and I need Giannis to be great on defense I know he’s going to be but I’m Not sure he’s going to be the same force for 82 games defensively that he was when he won back-to-back MVPs. And again, all I’m saying is that’s where I’m splitting the hairs that dropped him to four. And my thing with this mid-range and the addition of the mid-range and how Giannis shot the mid-range, fifth most makes in the league, shot decent level of volume, but what you’re seeing is for me, it’s not a decline. I mean, what you So, I think about Michael Jordan kind of how he was living at the rim for a large portion ear of his career, you know, and then he kind of made this transition into this mid-range maestro. Not saying he didn’t already have it, but it really became, hey, I’m operating on the mid block and or the elbow extended and we are working and we are what that means. He’s drawing gravity. He’s able to knock down the shot. So, defense is obviously everybody has to respect it. But then if you don’t respect it and you got to give something up, y like MJ was able to make the pass. My point with Giannis, I just don’t feel like he’s going on a decline. What we see out of him in your basket right now is is to me it’s not a guy that’s in decline. It’s a guy that’s continuing to evolve his game, the creativity, the ability to do what he’s doing in agree. Okay, they’re doubling him every single time. He’s finding guys, but more importantly, he’s making everyone else around him better. I think that’s going to carry over to next season. I don’t disagree with you on this concept of the late game offense and what we’ve seen, but I’m also looking ahead and I think he’ll be a different guy uh this season. This will be the season of the exciting part. Yeah, that short range shotmaking thing is the exciting part because again, like for the record, I don’t think he’s regressing on offense. I think he’s the better I think he’s the best offensive player he’s ever been because of his growth as a passer and as a mid-range shooter. In my opinion, like at the end of these games, often through schematics, through the refs allowing more physicality, through just finding a way to block off the rim, it can come down to can you get to something you can make over the top, just something. And for MJ, that was that mid-range pull-up jump shot like we talked about. And early in Giannis’s career, I really wanted it to be that left shoulder hook. I wanted him to be able to like drop that shoulder, bump the guy, and just shoot that little short hook shot. And for whatever reason, like he just couldn’t build that shot out. And so then he’d he’d run into like Bam, and Bam would be as big and strong to where he could beat him to a spot, and then suddenly Bam’s ability to shut the rim off to him kind of exposed that lack of short-range shotmaking. What’s exciting about this little mid-range pull-up he’s got going is if he can continue to build the confidence there, that could be the shot to where it’s like, “Oh, they’re shutting off the rim. Their closeouts are so hard that Gary Trent’s getting spooked on his threes. We need we he needs to make something Giannis can go to that shot.” And that that to me is the potential the potential for the future. But there’s a difference between Kevin Durant and Shay hitting 55% of those and Giannis hitting like 43 44% of those. that he needs to get a little better on those shots. And so, case in point, Jason, would be the final shot in regulation of the closeout game in Indianapolis. Giannis has the ball. Clock is winding down and I wasn’t happy with the with the fadeaway left left block starting out about 15 ft winding up with about 18. So to to that point, I I will concede you concede you that I mean in terms of just a reliable closing go-to move that that that that that you can uh take to the bank, take to the bank. Take to the bank in your mind, former player, a guy who’s followed the game closely. Is this pretty much it is what it is? We’re looking looking at Giannis. I mean, you could we should we’ve been talking the last five years about if he he ever improved that that that that three-point shot or you ever did this. And I’ve been saying, look, this is this is Giannis. This is who he is. He’s not going to all of a sudden turn into a 37% three-point field. He’s not going to be this great mid-range M. He’s gotten better. 44 45%. Much much much better. Uh I think the fifth most mid-range makes in the league last season. Much much better. But how? And here’s the question. How much improvement would he have to make this season in that area, the mid-range area? We’ll just keep it to that for you to change your opinion of him during the course of the year. To me, the the kind of line of demarcation, so to speak, is 50%. So, like I want to be able to get to a shot that I can make half the time. To your point about the fadeaway, like in my opinion, for a right-handed player, the turnaround over your right shoulder is one of the toughest shots in the game. Like for for specific types of freaky two guard athletes, they get so much pop off the ground like MJ Kobe. Those guys get like you can see it with Anthony Edwards a little bit too where it looks almost easy for them. But for these bigger forwards when they’re trying to get their whole body spun around and spin over that right shoulder, it’s a little bit tougher. What I like from Giannis is actually the ones out of his hesitation dribble when he’s like holding the ball in his left hand and the guy’s kind of giving him space and he just rises and fires or like a quick little rhythm dribble. So maybe like a short step back or some sort of something to kind of get his rhythm before he goes up into that shot. But the question is can he get over 50% there? And that’s why I kept coming back to that left shoulder hook because like to me the left shoulder hook is the shot where if he would have built that out he could have hit 55 56 57% of like that that to me where where like he gets the ball in the left block he turns and faces ball in his right hand gets that left shoulder a good bump and then takes that step into the middle and he just rises up over his left shoulder. That to me is a shot that I think he could have gotten up to the 55% range where that could have been a really reliable late game shot for him. But judging by his skill development trajectory, it kind of seems like he’s sort of abandoning that shot. And so I think more likely than not, his best pathway from here is that mid-range. And he just he just has to get it over 50. It’s like when you when you look around the league, the guys that are really surgical in the clutch, they’re all over 50% inside of that 17 foot range. So, for instance, Jaylen Brunson. Jaylen Brunson kills everybody because he’s lethally efficient like mid50s on short twos. Jokic in the mid60s on short twos. Even Luca when he’s at his best above 50% on short twos. Kevin Durant above 50% on short twos. those are the the scoring moves that are like kind of indomitable in big spots that no one can guard. And so I just want to see him build something like that out. And if he does, to your point, MJ, like I I think he absolutely can become one of those apex offensive players in the league. It’s just inevitably in basketball through schematics and through familiarity, you end up in these close games and you got to find a way to score. Is there a potential for Giannis this season to become the to have his best defensive season just from your vantage point? I’m looking at Miles Turner, the addition of Miles Turner, the younger version of Lopez, what he’s going to add uh in terms of rim protection which will free up and allow Giannis to do. What are your thoughts on that, Jason? Yeah, I I like I like the Gary Harris addition. It’s another guard that can guard a little bit. Uh, Koozma, like he’s playing bad basketball for a little while with a bad team, but I’m hoping that being alongside Giannis for a whole training camp, like I I rooted for Koozma when he was with the Lakers, and I actually thought he was a good defensive player when he was there towards the end. So, there might be some potential there, but the thing that gets tricky is it’s still not too good of a defensive roster overall. And what ends up happening is, especially in the awards situation, they don’t seem to care that you’re lifting the couch by yourself. You know what I mean? like as someone who’s covered Anthony Davis over the last few years, like he was covering for a lot of bad defense there and people just thought he was bad and the reality was is that the team really wasn’t that good. I think I think Oklahoma City is really informative about where the league is going in terms of what you need to be great defensively. Everybody’s playing so fast. Like 20% of possessions are in transition right now. The drive and kick stuff is really putting a taxing on closeouts and covering ground and rotation. you really have to be fast on the perimeter and like I like AJ Green. I think he’s a very good defender. We me we mentioned Gary Harris as an option, but you guys are kind of thin and light on that perimeter talent, which is going to put a lot of work on Giannis and Miles Turner. But my guess is that what you guys will do is structure your defense in a way that tries to funnel everything inside. and and if you do effectively you’ll give up a lot of threes, but I think Giannis and Miles could both have big shot blocking seasons which could uh influence that. All right. Now, you seem to be a guy who likes anal analytics. You like the numbers. Uh I’m hearing some cleaning the glass stats kind of flowing from you, my guy Ben Faulk over there, who I love. We got to get him on the show, Chris. Ben Faulk. But, but I love that. So, but my question is this. And so so we were talking I was talking a lot toward the latter part of the season from about the last 20 games on this triumvirate triumpvirate and when I say that I’m talking of Gary Trent Jr. Kevin Porter Jr. and AJ Green and their numbers analytically are just off off the charts and with the three of them even looking at it now what they completed the season they had a defensive rating of 104.6 6 98 percentile effective field goal percentage 97 percentile. I mean they did a great job creating turnovers in about the 78th percentile. I mean their defensive numbers were off the charts. And I was always saying how Doc you know just this is this is his lineup. And so he didn’t start that lineup until the very last game of the season which it turned out to be that fifth game against Indiana. And this you know we jumped out to a 15 18 20 point lead early on. Looked good early on. I I knew it was going to balance out eventually, but if you’re Doc Rivers, what do you do with that triumvirate to start the season? Do you think about some carryover and trying to maybe start this crew? Are you still using them and in in in situational type moments during the course of games? Last year, a lot of times it was fourth quarters down the stretch when you needed some some perimeter stops. What do you do with with with this group whose numbers are just jumping off the page? How much of that do you factor into this this this this threesome and how much they play this season? Well, this is really interesting. First of all, I I feel like I’m very much in the middle on the analytics thing because like I’m very much a basketball is more art than science kind of guy. And frankly, I hate the attempt to try to synthesize basketball down to one number. Like these catchall metrics that I see, I find them like almost blasphemous to the game. Like what? Like what? Like what? Like like what? What do you what do you say when you say that? Like like like all the like catch all like catch all metrics. So like when when you try to RAPM RPM and all box plus minus LeBron all all that kind of stuff. That stuff drives me absolutely insane cuz I’m like anybody who’s played basketball knows you can never synthes. There’s too many moving parts that are too intricately connected. I mean even just like the Kevin Porter Jr. thing we talked about like Dame is obviously a better player than Kevin Porter Jr. But Kevin Porter, for some reason, was able to get Giannis in the pocket more because there was more of a natural pacing fit between the two of them. Right? It’s like that’s a that’s a basketball’s art, not science kind of thing. That’s something that’s never going to manifest in any sort of of metric, right? But as far as that unit goes, I I am a huge believer in leaning into what you’re great at, right? So like this year’s Bucks roster, you’re super light on ball handling, right? Like Cole Anthony might be the second best ball handler on the team. It’s either him or Kevin Porter Jr., right? So like it’s very light on ball handling. So I would want to lean into Giannis on the ball as much as possible. Giannis was actually an incredibly productive pick and roll player last year. What speaking of metrics, the kinds of metrics that I like to look at are very specific to play types. Like how many points do you typically get out of a spot up possession? Yeah. How many points do you typically get out of a pick and roll on this side of the floor, on that side of the floor? That to me is like read more like reading the scoreboard than trying to to perform advanced, you know, scientific interpretation of basketball, right? So, like to me, Giannis was one of the most efficient pick and roll players in the entire league last year, but he was very low volume. And so, one of the things that I’d like to see the the Bucks do this year is double his pick and roll volume. He ran like 350 or so last year, including passes. I want to see that up around like 700, 750 this year. I want to see a ton of like inverted ball screens with him and AJ and him and Gary. I want to see a bunch of pick and pop with him and Miles. I want Giannis on the ball putting up insane video game numbers all season long because I think that’s the best version of the team offensively. Now, you have to have a secondary handler on the floor. That’s obviously Kevin Porter Jr. So then the question becomes, do you want Koozma out there and go big or do you want to go with the two guards? And frankly, I want shooting around Giannis. I want Giannis playing with easy kickout reads to dudes who are going to hit the shots. And so with that being the case, I’m 100% with you. I would go Kevin Porter Jr., Gary Trent, and AJ Green. I know it’s a smaller group, but there’s a lot of shooting there. and Giannis and Miles are going to be able to hold down the inside interior as that like kind of pick and roll defender lowman combination. They’re they’re going to be able to do that just like Brooke and Giannis did. I would absolutely go that direction as much as again I’m a believer in Kyle Koosma, but to me he’s best in a role off the bench where you can kind of fluctuate his minutes based on where his mental focus is. Well, and to back up your point real quick, I mean, second spectrum stats, Giannis as a passer, Gary Trent the second as a shooter, Gary Trent 68% effective field goal percentage, 87 percentile. Second best to Ryan Rollins, 77% which is a 95th percentile in terms of effective field goal percentage. So, so that inverted that inverted pick and roll action was something that’s really good and and I’m hoping that that Doc Rivers and and I know they will. I mean, they’ll take a really good hard look at these numbers and and realize that these are your most effective halfcourt offensive sets when you’ve got Giannis with the ball and and he made a living with that with Brent Forbes. Uh there been some other guys who were really good inverted screeners, shooters that would space out and get those kick out passes, which Giannis has gotten really good at. So, I mean, there’s numbers that really back up what you just said, Jason. So, yeah, that there’s a lot of validity in that. Yeah, Giannis has gotten really good at like like kind of timing his attacks off of ball screens, too. Like all the stuff that you see guards do where they fool the guard on into thinking he’s about to use the screen and then reject the screen or like a really aggressive move away from the screen but then countering back towards the screen so he can get the defender in trail position. Like Giannis is really good at manipulating those those ball screens now to get downhill. And like I’m a big believer that really all you need to do to start a possession is get an advantage and from there you just play basketball. And my thing is like a Giannis Miles Turner pick and pop is going to result in Miles being wide open at the top of the key almost every single time. And a Giannis ghost screen with AJ Green or with Gary Trent is either going to end in Giannis barreling downhill towards the rim where he’s probably going to dunk it or draw in such aggressive help that he’s going to have an easy kick out or those dudes are going to be wide open slipping out of the screen and they’re going to be able to either get a shot or drive out of that and get the offense running. The entire purpose of running sets is to get somebody open and those two actions are literally going to get people open every single time. And I think I think the path forward is almost like 2018 Cavs where it’s like, yeah, we don’t have the roster that these other teams in the in the conference have, but we have a dude that no one can keep from the rim and we’re surrounding him with shooting. And if we just play through him as like this heliocentric, the world revolves around him ball handler. I think Giannis could have an unbelievable season and the team could put up some pretty strong offensive numbers and everybody in that Eastern Conference beatable. There’s not a top tier def contender in that conference in my opinion. Okay. Yeah. And the one thing that you said that I that I love, Jason, you talked about uh evaluating the best player in the leagues from October to June. I’ve always I’ve always said the MVP to me is like who gets it done from start to finish. And so we’re right on the same uh wavelength with that. Man, look, we’re going to let you go. We appreciate you coming by. Please stop by again and some outstanding takes. And we hope that Giannis is able to prove you wrong this year, man. and and and move up a tier or two, especially in the MVP conversation. I believe it will. But thank you, man. And uh Jason Temp from Hoops Tonight at the volume. Appreciate you having you on the Here District today. All right, welcome everybody back to Here District, Marcus Johnson, Chris Johnson, and this is a new a new installment, Chris. It’s it’s the Bucks Podfest that we got going on here. And uh no better pair to start it out with than the host of uh of uh Locked on Bucks. Locked on Bucks, Camille Davis and Justin Garcia. We thank you both for joining us on this maiden voyage of Bucks podcastfest. Thank you so much. Appreciate the invite. Appreciate the invite. And Justin, I know you know you’re you’re real familiar with the Bucks. I mean, you you’re doing the radio with our our good buddy Dave Kaine and uh do a tremendous job in studio with some stuff with the Bucks. Let’s just give our fans our viewers who may not even be fans, but our viewers, let me put it that way. Uh some background on why you two, starting with you, Camille, have such a passion for the Milwaukee Bucks. Oh, man. For the Milwaukee Bucks. So, that stems from just having a love of the game itself. Like I grew up with my mom, my granny, and four of my uncles in the house. And my uncles were like my superheroes. And one way to bond with them was always through sports. So I watched a lot of basketball with them. Um as a ‘9s kid, watched a lot of like Jordan growing up and things like that. So, um, my Bucks fandom actually became like super big for me. Uh, when they got Brandon Jennings, like once I got to like college and was looking for a way to kind of like what like what can I do going to Buzz at the Bradley Center were reasonably priced uh, and it was a good time. And during those years of like Brandon Jennings, Bogat trading him for Monte Ellis, the Monte have it all. Like those were the years for me cheering for Carlos Delino that really like took my Bucks fandom to a different level right there. So you So you’re from Milwaukee then, right? I’m for real from Milwaukee. Like where what high school did you go to? I went to Milwaukee Lutheran. Milwaukee Luther. Okay. You’re Milwaukee girl. Okay. I like that. I like that. So it’s it’s homegrown. It’s been branded. It’s Yes, it is to the point where Yeah. You know, I was walking around the city like, “How come more of y’all ain’t trying to watch the Buzz?” I was getting clowned for wearing Bucks gear at that time and now it’s a different feeling to it. Yeah. Good for you. Good for you. Jesse, what about you? Almost identical to Camille. I’m just a little older than her. So, like the players that I would reference would be like Lee Mayberry and Blue Edwards got me hooked on on the Bucks. But, uh, basketball was always my favorite sport and remains that. And so, it was just the game itself that drew me in. And the early years in my fandom was uh a lot of going to the Bradley Center to see the opposing team with the caliber of Bucks teams that we were trotting out there. But I got bit by the bug at a very very young age and have loved the game ever since. Correct me if I’m wrong. Was Todd May also on the early Bucks teams around where Todd Todd Todd Day Todd Day Todd Day? You mentioned Lee Mayberry, but they they teammates from Arkansas. I’m trying to remember my Arkansas teammates, Bucks teammates. Yeah, I had a I had a Todd Day jersey back. Todd Day. Yeah. Yeah. They were big back then in the 90s. Those two guys, they were legendary. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, listen, we appreciate you guys uh filling us in on on some of your background and uh I guess we’ll start off by talking about this season and it’s just amazing to not amazing, it’s understandable, I guess, but just the the the the low regard a lot of the national media have for the Bucks in terms of this roster construction and and the the the uneven roster and doesn’t have enough of this or enough of that. you know, you can’t depend on Kuzzman and his and his is is Turing the guy that you want playing the the two spot as he started out sometimes last year, but but in your mind in terms of just the overall X factor and let’s leave like Giannis and Miles Turner and those guys aside, but other than Giannis and Miles Turner, who would you say is the X factor for this team to to reach it it its optimum level of success this year? It’s a conversation we’ve been having a lot on locked on Bucks this off seasonason of like who’s that guy? Um you go between Kevin Porter Jr., Gary Trent Jr., AJ Green, some really good names there. I’ve continuously landed on Gary Trent Jr. after seeing his performance in the playoffs against the Pacers last season. Um he was that guy to me that just really screamed of like I do not shrink in this moment. I do not mind taking the shots. I want the shots actually. Doesn’t bother me at all. And you need those types of guys next to Giannis, especially when you have a Damen Lillard sized hole on your roster that you have a collective trying to uh fill in there. So Gary Trent Jr. showed me a lot with his shot creation ability himself, ability to catch and shoot off the three, which is going to be important when you’re playing next to Giannis, but the shot creation that he also has shines to me because you’re going to need some guys to be able to do that outside of Giannis. And I think Gary Trent Jr. has a really, really high floor for this team. uh the energy he can bring defensively as well. He is somebody for me where I think like if Gary Trent Jr. has the kind of season that I think that he can uh the Bucks are going to be in a really really good spot this upcoming season. And Justin for you. So so so David Lockach the guy that that kind of built this locked on sports network. Now he started out with me in Seattle back in the mid 90s KJR radio TV doing Sonic games. He was just kind of low on the total poll and I’ve watched him just just kind of take over in terms of podcast for teams starting with with the Jazz I believe in Utah. Yeah. But but but he’s a big numbers guy. He’s a big second spectrum guy and you were the one that gave me your password second spectrum last year that allowed me don’t tell anybody. I’ve since I’ve got I’ve got my own hookup now. I’ve got my own hookup now. But I appreci app appreciated you so much because it unlocked, no pun intended, a whole lot of different numbers. When when you look at kind of the X factor for the Bucks in terms of numbers and that who’s had the impact that we may not have noticed, anybody that stands out in your mind that that could surprise some people? Well, and first of all, David, low on the totem pole then, but not low on energy, I’m assuming, way back when even. I think those of us that have watched the team enough, like Camille’s points on Gary Tren, I think he’s one that we all know the value and how important he was for this team from the outside, you probably don’t realize it wasn’t just the playoffs. It was I mean from the moment he went in the starting lineup and even the recognition of those of us that were talking ourselves into like I like him knowing his role and coming off the bench he should have started long long ago but all through the season he hit some of the biggest shots for that team not just in the playoffs. AJ Green similar to that I I think he’s certainly last year was an easy target defensively for the obvious reasons but showed he can hold up. Um, in terms of like numbers though that back it up, that’s the tricky part with this is I don’t think they really back up who I’m about to say, but I think the X-factor is Kevin Porter Jr. because I think his ceiling is second best player on the team in terms of talent that he has. And he frankly probably needs to be that for the team to get to where we hope to to get to. The tricky part with him is which version are you going to get? Is it something in the middle? Because by the numbers, he was one of the least efficient players in the league with the Clippers last season and and there’s obviously a big difference in the role he took on with the Bucks versus the Clippers, but usage rate was pretty similar and his efficiency just went through the roof with this team. So, I would imagine there is going to be a little bit of a drop off in his efficiency numbers, but just the sheer talent that he has and what his ceiling is, I think you have to acknowledge there’s going to be some down spells and there’s going to be some moments where it’s like, I wish he wouldn’t have done that. Um, and those types of plays, but you’re going to have to take that bad with the good because of what the upside is. And and I think if he’s pushing that where Camille and I were even talking about what is that what is that ceiling? Is it like knocking on the door of I could see putting him in a should this guy be considered for allstar? I think that’s about the max of it. But if he’s knocking on that door and you you have what you expect from Giannis and and what we expect to get from Miles Turner and guys like AJ Green and Gary Trent play similar to how they did last year but increase their numbers a little bit. I think the team’s in a really good spot. You you think KPJ can can surpass Miles Turner? If Miles is having an optimum Miles season, you think KPJ can have the kind of season where we we would consider him to be the number two the second best player on this team? Um I do just because I think a lot of times you just look at the county numbers for that and I think there’s a better chance that KPJ is going to average more points than Miles Turner. I I mean I I think what Miles Turner is going to do for this team, a lot of it is probably going to I wouldn’t say go unnoticed, but just his presence defensively and how much he’s going to help Giannis with a little more mobility back there because KPJ and Gary Trent are both gamblers that it paid off largely last year, but those moments where it doesn’t, I don’t feel like the Bucks are in a spot where they’re going to be caught flatfooted with Giannis and and Miles Turner. So, I think a lot of his impact is going to be on the defensive side, whereas KPJ’s impact would would arguably be like, could he average 20 points a game and and get somewhere there? And and that’s what’s really going to catch the eye of a lot of people. Yeah, he’s a guy I feel like, and I agree with you, Justin. Uh he’s definitely the X-factor. I mean, he a big season at that position with his, you know, increased usage and getting being having the ball, I believe, in his hands from day one. um is gonna definitely make a difference. Uh for me, it’s his connection with Giannis. When they were together on the floor last season, net rating was, you know, pretty pretty pretty dang good. Um understanding though, minim excuse, minimizing the lows with KPJ. That’s like, yeah, that’s his number one focus for me for KPJ. minimize your lows and then if you do go through lows, don’t let them avalanche into these these situations where it’s just like, man, you know, can we put him back in the game? You know, is he going to continue this crazy just run of just bad play after bad play again? That so that’s my kind of thinking on KPJ. But I think if he does get it together, he does get to the 20 point range because the opportunity is going to be there. MJ, I think that, you know, he can get to that dub dub a game. The real interesting thing too that Camille and I have talked about um somewhat recently too is Miles Turner was one of the best at at pick and roll offense in points created last year with Tyreek. I mean anybody’s going to be really good with Tyrese Hallebertton, but he really excelled in that twoman game. And I know there’s questions in Indiana of like, well, who’s the guy that he’s going to be able to do that with on the Bucks? I mean, we saw KPJ start to develop that last year to a lesser extent with Giannis, especially with Jericho Sims being paired up with him. That that’s one of the interesting things for me to keep an eye on, too, is how does that develop between those two guys, Camille? Yeah. Listen, one thing about this upcoming season that’s going to be different and I think might take some getting used to is giving the young guys some grace as they continue learning through playing in these expanded roles. Because when you think about the Bucks of years past and chasing these championships, it was such a veteran focus. Like that’s why these Bucks teams were old because you want your vets to go out there. You can trust them in high leverage situations. You don’t really worry about them. And now the Bucks moving this direction with Point Giannis being surrounded by so much more youth. Like Kevin Porter Jr. is a great example of that. Like his showing in the playoffs against the Pacers last year left something to be desired. But the year before that, so did AJ Green. And I wanted to see how AJ Green was going to respond after his first playoff series. He got off to a slow start in training camp, a little slow into the season, but last year you saw AJ Green really emerge into a player. And I think there’s still more levels for him to hit. And Kevin Porter Jr. reminds me a bit of that this season as well where it’s like in the playoffs you got your first taste of it. It you it didn’t go as well as you wanted it to, especially at the beginning. But now you have that experience. What do you continue to do with it going forward? And I think there’s going to be some some learning pains along the way. Um, we’ve heard Doc even mentioning like really trying to narrow down with Kevin Porter Jr. like this is how you play point guard. A little less one dribbling like use your speed, drive, kick, use your gravity, read the floor, like dribble with a purpose. So I think that learning at like learning pains aspect of is going to be really interesting, especially when you pair it with who the Bucks vets are now. Like Giannis and Bobby Portoris are your big bets on this Bucks team now. Um, and seeing how their leadership style continues to develop with these young guys, I think is going to be a really fun subplot throughout the season. What do you do with the log gym? Staying on the point guard position for one more segment. What do you do with the log uh as far as the log gym? You have Rollins, Cole Anthony, KPJ slated at the point guard depth chart. Who is the odd man out this season for the Bucks in your opinion? Or who if you were coach, if you’re Doc Rivers, who are you playing and who are you not playing? Woo. That’s a tough one. I think I think for me I’ve been kind of penciling Kevin Porter Jr. as that starting point guard and I know there’s been conversation about should it be KPJ? Should it be Ryan Rollins because of just how Ryan Rollins also can fit his game next to Giannis. I think Rollins is in the rotation. I think Porter Junior’s in the rotation. And I think Cole Anony’s addition to this team actually frees up what you use Kevin Porter Jr. for because I think part of the argument initially of hey let Rollins start and let KPJ come off the bench was that KPJ can go fill it up. So you have someone coming off the bench in addition to a Bobby Poris who can try to fill it up for you and now you have a co-anthony who I think can really slide into that role off the bench for the Bucks as well. So I think that all three of those guards Porter Rollins Anthony are all going to see playing time. You might even see some lines where you see both Rollins and Kevin Porter Jr. out there or some kind of two of those three guards on the floor at the same time. But I think the heaviest load will be on Kevin Porter Jr., then Ryan Rollins, and then Cole Anthony. Well, and and Cole Anthony is is really good insurance. I think Ryan Rollins had some surgery uh this off season on that left shoulder that had been bothering him somewhat last year. So, good to see him that corrected. But, but you know, so he’s going to be kind of slow in returning, I believe, to form just kind of getting back into some contact stuff with the Bucks. But in terms of uh we’re talking about combinations now and and and one of the speaking of numbers, second spectrum numbers, but one of the combinations that just jumped off the off the books was that what I call the triumvirate of of of Kevin Porter Jr. and and uh AJ Green and and Gary Trent Jr. If you’re Doc Rivers, asking both of you this and start with you Justin. I mean, how much of that do you lean into uh to start this season? Do you do you kind of wait and see what you got first of all and give you know CS the opportunities give Prince the opportunities to see what they’re going to do? How do you how do you handle that because it finish strong but how do you start this season? I I mean I think you go with that and really based off what John Horse said too in the conversations that he had leading into to free agency and after the Bucks made that splash for Miles Turner where he acknowledged it’s not a huge sample size, right? It was it was basically eight games that we really had data to look at in the regular season and then the playoffs. Um, so we know it’s not as large of a sample size as you would like, but we believe in what we saw. And I I also think it it modernized the Bucks. Like that’s the biggest thing about this off season is I I get you can point to the lack of star power outside of Giannis, which is funny in in that a lot of us have kind of come to the realization that that’s not the league anymore. Like now all of a sudden depth is important and not just depth, but like minimize your weaknesses. That you need to have two-way players and you can’t put guys out there that are targets. And even though the Bucks had star power, they had a lot of that. So, they’ve now shifted more to modernized play here. And I think those three guys back it up that, you know, the gambling nature of of Gary Trent Jr. and Kevin Porter Jr., but they’re not defensive targets. We mentioned AJ Green isn’t a target. You can go after him and then you realize, oh, this guy holds up and they can obviously create offense as well. So, I think those are the three guys I would be inclined to say you start the season with given the feelings we’ve heard from John Hen and what you saw in the playoffs. But the other names that you mentioned, I mean, when we asked who’s the X factor, um, honestly, Kyle Kousman would have been number two on the list for me because, you know, if if you get the version, not even the bubble version of Kuzzman and the Lakers, but if if you get what you envisioned from him, I mean, we we got that defensively, but if you figure out how to make it fit offensively, that changes a lot for this team with the lineups that you can play, with some of the things you can do with Giannis off the floor and I think that’s really his most valuable role here. Not that he’ll never start. I’m sure that’ll happen throughout the season, but really finding and nurturing that role for Kyle Kooz, you know, I don’t know if it’s your sixth man with Bobby, but something like that. And even Torian Prince, who has a lot of value playing next to Giannis as a catch-and shoot guy and is really good regular season depth for you that I think this team got deeper. Whether or not it’s top end talent is is up for debate, but they are certainly deeper with more options. What do you what’s your guys’ read on air coffee? Um his signing when you kind of where Ajax is at with everything and the roster crunch. Camille, I’ll start with you. Like what are your thoughts on Coffee as a player and what could he bring to the Bucks? Yeah, Coffee is like a a super role player is is what I’ve been calling him. He was somebody early in free agency where when we didn’t know how the Bucks roster would shake out. I was like he’s somebody who I would if I was the Bucks try to take a flyer on like get him on the minimum. See what you can do with him here because he is somebody who you know that floor he’s going to be able to knock down some open shots. He can defend a bit sometimes. I do think that the defense might be a little overvalued from people who haven’t watched him as like consistently, but like he he can keep his feet in front of people. He’s going to move on defense. Um, and he’s going to do a little things like he’s going to move the ball. He’s going to do the little things that you asked for. He knows how to play a role and he can play it really, really well. Um, so his addition to the team, one really shocked that it was a training camp deal for a player of his caliber. I would have thought that he’d be on somebody’s roster guaranteed um, based off what he did with the Clippers. But he’s another option that you have because I agree with Justin on that trio of AJ Green, Gary Trent Jr., Kevin Porter Jr. being really special. Um, and when I look at the Bucks roster, one area I’m kind of like, if they can shore this up a little bit, I’d feel a little bit more confident, and that’s just having that size on the wing. Like, yes, if you run those three out there, you know, you’re going to be able to play fast, but the biggest one of them is 6’4, 6’5. So, if you’re playing against some bigger wing defenders there, um, it can be a little challenging. And Coffee gives you some of that size. Not the wingspan necessarily, but he does give you the size. Um, and that’s a benefit to have. So, that’s a training camp battle for me that I’m really interested in seeing because you have a roster of 17 with Andre Jackson Jr.’s contract guaranteed date being pushed back and coffee here now on what is considered a training camp deal. It’s like can they do something in camp this upcoming what in a few weeks now uh to earn that roster spot because that’s going to be difficult to pry one of those guaranteed roster spots away. Camille. Yeah. I mean, when when’s the last time they had that, you know, that type of competition for a spot? Right. Right. But I want to ask Camille this question because Justin, you touched on it. In terms of uh the modernized basketball, what does that mean to you? And have the Bucks arrived? Are we here in the modern era? Come on with the good questions. MJ. Um, to me, when I think of like modernized NBA, when I think of that depth thing, I think the finals matchup that we had was a showcase on where the league is going where you have these teams that are playing free. I know we used to get uh like laugh at the play random quotes that we used to hear from time to time, but that’s a bit to it where you have these guys on the court. Um, there’s a connection there, but there’s also a level of speed. like the whole positionalist basketball. I subscribe to that wholeheartedly. But I think you always need that person to get your offense going. You need someone to be able to initiate it and then from there everyone can be where they are. But with that, that means that NBA teams are going to look to pick on the weakest link consistently. Um, I heard that on just noise last night. Mind the game is one of my favorite podcasts and they mentioned that the NBA now is a pick on you league where once they figure something out, we will continue to run that same action until you prove you can stop it. So now what you need instead of having your star power and being like we’re only going seven deep in the playoffs, can you have a guy can you go eight, nine deep, can you keep guys fresh to play at this increased pace, increased speed um that you’re seeing in the game now? And that’s part of why when you see that trio of guys we talked about Kevin Porter Jr. Gary Trent Jr. um and AJ Green with a Giannis and a Bobby who moved his feet really well. When you think about a Miles Turner who’s also a bit more agile on the perimeter, that movement aspect of how fast you can go too. And Miles is coming from the Pacers, a team that consistently pushed the pace, wanted to get out there and run, get out in transition. And that’s a way for the Bucks to play that we haven’t seen like really put in the pace because again, a little bit more methodical with how they wanted to operate that offense. A little bit slower pace at my own pace. And of course, that’s the way it goes when you have a Chris Middleton who can do that. when you have a Damen Lillard who can do that. But now, like, let’s get out here and run with some of these younger teams. You’re reminding me of my my partner, my former partner, Jim Pasture, who used to say positionless basketball works in every position except one. That’s the point guard that that you you need you need some organization. You need somebody to kind of get you set up. I mean, how much do you trust Giannis, Justin? I mean I most most of the point Jiannis MJ well well and these are mainly point guard Lloyd Walter some other good friends of mine these are point guards but they’re telling me as long as Giannis has the ball in his hands down the stretch of a big time playoff game he says the Bucks are not a team that you feared that greatly in terms of being able to beat you on a consistent basis. How do you feel about Giannis having the ball the majority of the time? He’s going to have a high usage rate anyway, but I’m talking about fourth quarter late in games. Is this a guy you want setting up your offense? Um, I mean, I’ll take the copout answer and say based on what they have, yes, that’s the guy I want. But, um, I mean, I overall, yes. I feel more than comfortable with Giannis leading things. And he’s he’s clearly gotten better. like we’ve touched on the last two or three years how much a a good level of passing and his feel and read of the game has increased in those seasons. Um so yeah, I I don’t have an issue there. I see the other side of the argument where I think it’s largely coming from you want somebody uh in those spots that can get they can initiate that whether that be they’re initiating for their teammates they’re scoring from three levels of the floor and efficiently that’s probably not Giannis’s game right now. So I I get that level of hesitation but again that’s where it it comes back to I trust Giannis. I feel more than fine with him organizing and running the offense, but it’s it’s where it just makes it even larger. The growth and consistency that you see from Kevin Porter Jr. is going to be big for this team. Camille point. Yeah, I mean I would definitely agree with that and thinking a little bit more about it too um with point Giannis. One thing that Doc mentioned, I think it was during summer league, that they loved about Giannis being the initiator of the offense is that you’re seeing so many more teams now lean into pressing full court, just the entire game, we’re just going to press. We’re going to press that point guard all the way up the court. We’re going to try to delay you getting into your sets. We don’t want you to start your offense when that shot clock still says 20 seconds. We want you to start that shot clock when it’s ticking down 17, 16. We want to do that. Um, and with Giannis having the ball in his hands, Doc mentioned like it’s harder for teams to really speed you up because you don’t really want to press Giannis in that way back court. So, like there are definite advantages to Giannis having the ball in his hand. I trust the vision. We know Giannis has talked about his playmaking being a part of his game. he thinks a little bit undervalued at times and how when he has that the cookie in the cookie jar, the ball in his hands um so much more often that he feels a greater control over the game on when he chooses his spots. Um and I think that that can succeed. Now, I do think that you need those combo guards and people who can lead the team when he is sitting because Giannis is not going to play, you know, a full a full 48 here for you. So, you have to have those other guys. But I think the concept of having Giannis being your main initiator, but also having some guards that you can trust to initiate the offense around him makes sense. Kind of like look at Denver. Like you have a Jamal Murray there, but for the most part, they’ve gotten along with understanding the ball is going to be in Joic’s hand. So, let’s put these combo guards around him because we can get away with that a little bit more. And and the thing about it, uh, Giannis, one thing real quick, the thing about what Giannis playing the point, Doc and the staff are gonna come up have to come up with some nuances in how they, you know, bring the ball up the floor. Like you brought up Joic and Jamal Murray and they they kind of have a synergy in how the ball gets moved up the floor, how the offense work. There’s like early actions that take place when you’re kicking it ahead, quick cuts. I mean, I think that there’s there’s a way that you can play with Giannis being this, you know, someone said heliocentric sort of figure for the Bucks, but it has to be strategic and it has to be worked on and kind of laid out in nuance. What you saw a lot from the last year when Giannis did bring it up, it wasn’t in necessarily advantageous positions like when Giannis wasn’t effective is because of the way he was bringing it up. I mean, he’s just bringing it up. they’re sending a double or he’s trying to back a guy down and they’re sending too early. There’s just going to have to be some nuances in there as far as like if he’s going to be a dominant ball handler. Yeah. One I think one of the other things with the component is there’s been a lot of change the last couple of years with this group that you’ve had like 60 to 80% of the roster has been the same but a revolving door at like two guard and other spots. And early in the season, you would see some of those growing pains like I mean the the 2 and 8 start to the season notwithstanding, but you would see things like uh each of the last two years, Giannis getting into the paint, throwing the ball out there to the elbow or or out to the perimeter and Gary Tren Jr. or Malik Beasley or Grayson Allen way back when, not where he thought they were going to be. that those things take some time and when you’re new to playing with Giannis, you can have a tendency to just kind of sit and watch of like, okay, this guy’s going to work. And now that’s largely removed with the group that he has on the perimeter, there’s going to be some with some of the new pieces, but these are all guys where he’s dictated and made clear, look, here’s the spot I’m going to get to. Here’s where I can get you the ball. That a lot of that should be gone in the early part of the season. And that’s big because I I think clearly avoiding a two and eight start, but getting off to a nice start is going to be important for this team. Absolutely. Well, listen, you guys have got got us off to a nice start here on our podfest maiden voyage. We appreciate that. And to finish things off, we’ve come up with uh a little thing we want to do here. Uh rapid fire questions. We’re going to put 24 seconds on the clock. Who’s got that? Dylan, you got 24 seconds. This is real simple. Uh first, I want to know, you got 24 seconds combined. So, go through this kind of quickly if you would. Camille, your favorite Milwaukee Bucks player of all time. Who and why? Chris Middleton. And why? It’s easy. And why? Uh, the style of play. Like I said, I’m a kid of the 90s. Grew up watching Jordan. I love the mid-range game and Chris Middleton made the tough shot express look so beautiful. Justin Glenn Robinson. He was I was all in at that era. I I recognize the flaws after the fact, but he was my guy for a decade. The big dog. Can’t argue with that. Second one is this the biggest summer in Wisconsin sports history when you think about the Packers and the Bucks, what they’ve done in the offseason, the Brewers, how they’re playing. Is this you guys are Milwaukee Buck Milwaukee people? Let me put it that way. Can you can you can you remember a more exciting summer in terms of the sports teams in Milwaukee? Is this or is this it? I mean, I’ll I’ll just I’ll grab the low hanging fruit and say, “No, it has to be 2021 because that run extended into December.” Ah, there you go. Yeah. Championship finals for like July 26th or something. I love it, man. Yeah. To hear districts 50,000 fans out there. Yeah, Camil. Yeah, I love that answer. I would I would think it’s one of the most exciting summers even outside of 21. I think it’s the 2011 season where the Brewers were were rolling a little bit too. The Packers couldn’t lose. The Bucks were starting. You felt pretty good. But it was it was a the summer optimism kind of was was shorter that time. Yeah. I mean, I liked around 1982ish with the Robin Yen, Paul Moler, and Gorman Thomas and that crew. The Bucks were doing our thing. The Packers had Anyway, I digress. Listen, you two, we thank you so much for being a part of her district and uh continued success on on Locked on Bucks. You do a great job. Justin Garcia, Camille Davis, please come back and join us during the course of this season, man. We love having you on. Thank you so much. Anytime. Thanks, guys.

This week on Hear District, Marques & Kris Johnson welcome Jason Timpf of Hoops Tonight to debate Giannis Antetokounmpo’s place among the NBA’s elite, what it would take for him to achieve his 3rd MVP, and why next season could be his best defensively. They also break down the Bucks’ 3-guard lineup and how it could shape Milwaukee’s success. Later, Justin Garcia & Camille Davis of Locked On Bucks join to kick off #BucksPodFest, sharing stories of their Milwaukee roots, the Bucks’ biggest X-Factor for the upcoming season, why Kevin Porter Jr. could be the Bucks’ No. 2 scorer, their most anticipated lineups of next season, favorite players in franchise history, and where this summer stands in the pantheon of all-time Wisconsin sports’ summers.

0:00 — Intro
2:21 — Debating Giannis’ Rank
10:01 — Mid-Range Evolution
16:59 — Defensive Evolution
19:06 — Bucks’ Triumvirate
27:06 — Welcome, Locked On Bucks
30:35 — Bucks’ X-Factors
40:13 — Guard Rotation & Lineups

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