Patriots need to figure out how to stop self-destructing

Patriots need to figure out how to stop self-destructing

[Applause] Hey, what’s up everybody? Welcome into Tom Current’s Patriot Talk podcast. It’s Tuesday. We’re still kicking through the Patriots loss. Phil Perry right there. Phil, you’ve heard the saying, uh, you can’t fix stupid. Heard that. Okay. Generally that might be accurate, but in the Patriots case I think you can, you know, you just stop with the third down penalties and the first down turnovers. You stop with the horrendous decisions and the inattention to detail. You you stop missing tackles and you stop with in the- moment decisions that wind up being disastrous. Like this one right here. This is this is Pop Douglas. If you could throw that picture up there for the folks watching at home. You know, I contended Pop Douglas on this play was in a position where it made sense to move backwards because he was no way he was going to make he was going to make the first down. Look at him. He’s right there. He should have burrowed like you said in the moment after the game. I said he didn’t need to burrow. He wasn’t in a position to borrow. He could have borrowed. The point remains though, you have to fix it and you don’t have time necessarily to pull the car over to the side of the road and have 10 days of practice. You got to keep plowing forward. This is a point that you asked Mike Vrabel about on Monday. Just to follow up quickly, I I remember it was your introductory press conference. You talked about accountability and how you you kind of need to know guys before you can hold them accountable because you don’t want there to be push back. No, I mean I don’t know if Yeah. I mean, I think they get to do you know guys well enough now to hold them accountable right now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I do, but I you know I mean also got to try to to balance you know winning football games and gaining yards and and scoring points and you know all all those things, right? So there’s a um you know we just we just got to get it fixed and I know there’s no easy fix and the only thing I know how to do is is work and we’ll work at it and if I feel like or we feel like that it’s you know in the best interest to to limit those opportunities then then we’ll have to do that. Phil, it’s a great question. How do they fix it while and and hold people like Raandre Stevenson accountable or Drake May while still preparing for the next game? Yeah, I think you can. This is what makes the Stevenson conundrum um an interesting one. As good a player as he can be when he’s at his best, Tom, I think you can still compete without him. I do. I think Antonio Gibson gives you a representative NFL caliber between the tackles running back who measures about six feet about 225 pounds. And that to me would be the simple fix. And you are at the same time still competing even if it’s not to the same degree that Mike Vrabel and Josh McDaniels believe because that everybody sees Roandre Stevenson as sort of this next level talent. you are still competing and you’re holding a highly paid player accountable and you’re sending a message to your locker room that this stuff can’t stand the stuff that we go over in the film when we’re talking about the good, the bad, and the bleep that gets you beat. If you’re performing the bleep that gets you beat on a regular basis, we have to move on at least for the time being. It doesn’t mean put him away in storage for the rest of the season. It doesn’t mean cut the guy. It just means for this week, and let’s see how it goes moving forward, both in practice and in games, but for this week, you go with Gibson as the primary guy with Trayvon Henderson continuing on as his sort of subback role. It is the most interesting aspect of this is you don’t have to go far back to see how good Raandre Stevenson can be. You can just look at the game in Miami and see him as a runner, see him as a pass catcher, see him with a 55 yard uh down the sideline play that was absolutely critical in that game. You can look at both he and Drake May who should be staples of this team as they become good and be the reasons that they’re getting good, not the reasons that you’re losing the game. And between them, they had four turnovers on Sunday. This team could be 3 and 0 if not for a sketchy defensive game plan against the Raiders and a Drake May turnover and for what happened on Sunday and it’s not going to go away. Listen to Mike Florio. He spoke to Cam Hayward after the game. Here he was on football night in America. The Patriots fumbled four times today and all four were recovered by the Steelers. Said Hayward of the Patriots, we knew there were a lot of career fumbles on the other side. And I asked specifically about running back Raandre Stevenson who fumbled twice. And Hayward laughed and said, “Oh, we were aware every time he was in the game, but he didn’t want to pick on Stevenson.” He said, “Generally, this is a group that turns over the ball.” So, just like with the Patriots, they they would look at any player on the other team and say, “He’s going to put it on the ground. Just grab at it, punch it, whack it, slap it.” And it’s not like maybe it’ll come out. It’s going to come out. And the funny thing is is the fumbles that he is guilty of, we talked about this Sunday, they’re not these violent unexpected, oh my god, somebody just, you know, shot a grenade at the thing. There’s no way he could have held on to it. It’s normal course of business type of whacking at the football. And Raandre Stevenson, for his part, he’s mad and sad. Here he is after the game on Sunday. I mean, I appreciate it, but I got to hold on the ball for, you know, to have value and, you know, put value on this team. So, if I can’t help the ball, they don’t need me. This goes to Phil, how a team is constructed in an interesting way. And where is it in their DNA? Is it in their marrow that they are a losing football team? I mean, he had seven fumbles last year. He’s a good player. Seven fumbles last year. He’s got two already this year. He was on the scene in 2022. Unfortunately, we whipped it backwards over his head during a game against the Raiders. I’ll never let it go. I’ll never ever let it go. But as Mike Vrabel tries to transition this team, does he have to look at guys like Reandre Steven and say that this is what I’m talking about when we have to go new broom sweeps clean? I think that thought has to cross his mind. And the fact that you can’t do it right now is because or even this offseason and I don’t even know about that next offseason. Tom, his contract, he’s under contract. He’s getting a lot of money to be a very good running back and he is I think if you were to look at it leaguewide I don’t know where you would have him I would have him probably somewhere safely in the middle of the pack among starting NFL running backs. I just fumbles I’d probably put him around 24 with the fumbles it’s worse. It’s clearly worse. I mean in terms of you know expected points added and we’re going to get to some expected points conversation here soon. He was last in the league last year because of the fumbles primarily and he didn’t do enough to make up for those on the positive end. So yes, that’s exactly what Mike Vrabel wants to rid his team of. And again, I would say for the time being in the in the short term, to me, the answer is if you want to establish what you’re trying to be moving forward and not lose all that much by going to the guy behind him on the depth chart, there’s very few positions where you can do that and get away with it. I would make an example of one of your highest paid players and sit Raandre Stevenson this coming weekend. And the funny thing too is it’s not just hey like Bill used to do bench a guy who made one mistake and say this will send a message to the rest of the team. He is actively losing your football games when he does that. I mean, you go back to Cincinnati in 2022 as well when he fumbled after they erased a an 18 or 21 to nothing lead right before Christmas and he fumbled. They had a chance to go in and win a game. Barely any contact and he fumbled the ball. He’s depriving them of chances to win the game. So, it’s not just a message. It’s I got to protect myself here. I don’t know what’s going to happen when we put it into the belly of this wonderfully gifted 6 foot 230 lb bruising running back. And unlike at the quarterback position where he’s making mistakes too, you’re not going to the next guy and and giving yourself a chance, right? You and you’re going to be more willing to let him work through his growing pains than somebody who’s a veteran who should have this thing fixed by now and doesn’t play as an important position. So that that to me is the the reasoning there. Like you can make your statement about accountability and what you want the team to stand for and still compete. I know in his answer to me today, he’s talking about, you know, we got to think about scoring points and gaining yards. And I get all that. You can do that with other players on the roster not named Raandre Stevenson. I equate this to the dad in the minivan as he’s driving to a destination, needs to get the family there, but there’s chaos right behind him and he’s trying to keep his eyes on the road, but he knows he’s got to break up whatever’s going on behind him. You guys, stop. Stop. Mike has to keep his eyes on the road. He has to keep driving, but he has to do some disciplining behind him. You let that give it back type move. I’m I’m I’m feeling like very seen right now is what the kids would say. What are we doing? No minivan, but yes, I’ve been there. It’s hard. It’s hard. It’s hard to to serve both masters, right? To to be able to say, “Hey, I’m building a program on the one hand, but on the other, we need to try to win football games here.” And we, you know, we still our our our fans at home haven’t seen us win a real consequential football game in some time and and we need to do that and we need to start, you know, making some progress in that regard. But I also need to I might need to tear some things down here in the process of building it up to where I want it to be in the long haul. The other interesting aspect too is I is he under the impression as I am that this is just a good team in there that’s right now infected by a demon and it has to be exercised. I mean I’m under the impression that this is a a team and we’ll get to the expected points but I I I look at it as they did a lot of good things. They’re gaining yards in massive chunks. It’s not like last year against the Chargers when they were non-competitive. It’s not like the Germany game in 2023 non-competitive or the Colts game or any number of games we’ve seen. This is a team that you should be able to look at and say, “Wow, they they’re making some plays.” And there’s two ways of looking at that. One, it’s well, okay, it’s that’s that’s glass half full operation there, Tom. And the other is it’s simple turd polishing, which is what Mike Vrabel alluded to Monday on WEI. I mean, we can polish the turd however we want to and just understand that it, you know, you got a 5% chance to to win a game where you have that many turnovers. You the average margin of victory in those instances is probably 18 points. Um, and and to think that we still had a chance. So, there there’s a lot of good stuff in there. there there’s stuff that’s very detrimental obviously and we have to uh we got to correct it and and we have to be able to to move on but we have to be able to to to coach it and acknowledge it and then fix it. You know, maybe you say, “Hey, you know what? I’m I’m bottom line uh Billy over here. You can give me all the details that can prove that it’s actually a good team. It’s not a good team. These aren’t good performances.” And you you can be correct. However, however, it is worth pointing out that when you look at the overall performance and then individual plays within the overall performance, you have a 19 or whatever it was play drive and you undo it with a fumble at the end by Raandre Stevenson. It’s not like that 19play drive didn’t happen and didn’t include some good plays. This is Kevin Cole. I mentioned him to you last week. He has a website called unexpected points.com. Tracks estimated um what is it again? Expected points added. expected. Geez, EPA, that’s like the Environmental Protection Agency, I almost said. Um, listen to this. The Patriots lost 6.7 expected points on the Stevenson fumble on the goal line. Yikes. They lost 5.6 expected points when Drake May fumbled at the Steelers 33 with 748 left on a first and 10. They lost 5.4 4 expected points when Antonio Gibson fumbled on first and 10 from the Steelers 43 and it was 14-7 at that time. So they had they they could have made it 21 to7 before halftime. They could have made it 21 to7 after halftime and they could have made it 21 to7 after that Gibson drive. Could have been 35 to7 Mike and they lost 4.6 six points when Stevenson fumbled with three 1331 left in the first quarter on first and 10. They lost 4.4 points when May got picked on third and goal. Why you you’re saying why is it 4.4 instead of more? Because it was third and goal. So you can’t presume the touchdown and they only had one more play. Bottom line is the turnovers cost them a total of 21.4 expected points. I hope you guys aren’t too lost in the sauce with those numbers, but Phil, um, that to me is smoking gun evidence that there’s a demon inside and if the demon can be exercised, Patriots might start being double- digit favorites against everybody. See, I think the way Mike Vrabel would look at it, my guess my guess is he of the uh the the turd polishing approach or his that’s how he viewed this sort of conversation is I don’t think he views this team as as good enough to compete with good teams on a regular basis. They are talented enough to beat up on potentially beat up on a mediocre Steelers team. They’re they’re good enough to beat on the road a right now bad Dolphins team. But I think he doesn’t look at this team as hey if we just fix this one thing suddenly we’re good. I the quarterback I think has a longer process that he needs to get through that the coaching staff probably sees and would acknowledge to me. The receiver room Tom your leading receiver yesterday two catches for 28 yards. It’s the good teams have receivers who make big plays on a fairly regular basis. They don’t have that right now. Um the defense is good enough. The running back should be one of your best position groups but let you down for obvious reasons. So, I don’t know if he sees this as a good team yet, but they’re they’re probably only a couple pieces away and some quarterback development away from being pretty good. It it’s funny. Last year, and and I’m only using it over and over and over again by way of comparison. I know it’s over and dead and buried, but when the Patriots would complete a pass on third and seven for a first down, your mind would click to, well, that was lucky. I’m not going to do that again. Now they’re doing it on a fairly regular basis so that when it’s third and seven, you’re not like, well, get the punter ready. I mean, you really think that that between McDaniels and May’s ability and the protection that it’ll be afforded, something is going to come open for the Patriots. So, to me, there is progress, but that’s what makes it that much more maddening. And the Patriots get ready for the Carolina Panthers uh next Sunday, and the Panthers won 30 to nothing because they finally woke from a slumber. We’re going to be back in just a minute. We’ll get into Drake May a little bit more after the break. [Music] The interception, you know, turnovers are always a killer, right? And especially when they lead to points or they take away points. The Drake May interception at the end of the half, should that have been a back pylon throw? Uh, it shouldn’t have been a flat one, you know what I mean? Obviously, just having an idea of where that guy is and and be able to put some put some air into it. And I think that uh those are things we have to be able to see and again get the spacing that we need and and be able to keep it out of harm’s way. Welcome back everybody. That’s Mike Vrabel on WEI the Greg Hill Show talking about the Drake May end zone pick which again I didn’t do a good enough job really. I didn’t scrutinize it well enough. We said, “Oh, you know, he might have been concussed.” And we spent a lot of time on that. And and sometimes you can’t control somebody hitting it. And then you look at it. I looked at it on Sunday Night Football and was highlighted by Chris Sims. Why would he throw a line freaking drive? I I’m the same way you are and I felt the same having seen it a second time because I am of the mind when we watch these things live and we see passes bad at the line of scrimmage. Hey, you can’t control what everybody is doing out there. Every once in a while, a hand’s going to get up and knock one down. But you’re right and Vrabel’s right there. There should have been some air floated under that pass. Tom, I I just wonder, we know how detailed these plans are, right? Especially third down in the red zone and how frequently they must have practiced that particular play for this particular matchup in the week leading up. And my guess is every time he threw that pass in practice this week, whether it was two, three, I don’t know how many times, but every time he threw it, my guess is he just put that thing on a line and the guy was open and it didn’t matter. But whether or not there was an extra defender in there because there was some traffic, it looked like Pop Douglas eventually made his way into the picture on Sunday. So, you know, should he have been in that spot a little bit earlier and maybe changes the look of the defense and that makes that pass a little bit more completable or, you know, the defensive lineman just aren’t as good as Cam Hayward on the Patriots practice squad and so he doesn’t have to worry about them batting down a pass in that sort of situation. I just I do think sometimes of okay, what did this look like in practice? Because that to me sometimes could explain why they handle a certain situation in a certain way. Decisions like that. It doesn’t excuse it though, like in real time, see that the guy is right there and and give him a little air under the football to make it easier for everybody. And that’s being, you know, a point guard. That’s being a nuanced player. That’s having the game slow down and say, “Oh, I see a flash of white in my throwing alley.” And those guys are big and they’re smart enough to put their hands up and he’s got plenty of room. Boom. Just a little delicate throw. I wonder how maddening it must be for Josh McDaniels at this juncture because I wrote in my column that I wrote on Monday, this stuff will be exorised from Drake May’s game. Drew Bledsoe in 1993 had a five interception game against the Steelers. I think they lost seven to two or it was just horrendous. Tom Brady threw four picks on four consecutive possessions in October of 2001 against the Denver Broncos. They were absolutely hammering the Broncos. They looked brilliant. Brady started the game like eight for eight and then he threw four picks on four consecutive possessions. The Patriots lose 31 to 20. And Tom Brady was in his second year just like Drake May. And we forget that that happens to a secondyear player, even one who was on his way to a Super Bowl win, which I don’t think Brady’s on his way to, or certainly him not being on his way to, nor may. I think May is closer than we think. I So, as weird as it sounds, the absolute mind-numbing stupidity of some of the things that he does to me looks more fixable than somebody who just outright can’t play the position. Like I don’t know if you have to use a cattle prod, some kind of a buzzer taser, but like when I look at that play, the fumble late in the game where it’s oh good, he’s got pressure on him. He’s got two hands on the ball. Scott P is sitting right next to us. We’re in the the green room watching and uh he’s like good. Look at that. That’s improvement. Two hands on the ball. As the play is going on and then he just and the ball pops out. So he’s getting closer. He just can’t get to the end of the play yet, but it’s coming. I think you’re right. And and I think it’s in a weird way and in a in a way that Patriots fans probably don’t appreciate because it’s painful to watch in real time. Tom, think of the number of times he’s turned it over in that kind of situation. Preseason opener, he he’s getting dragged down and he tries to do something with the football and it flies out of his hand. And last year in Miami, I can remember, same deal. He’s he’s in the grasp essentially. It tries to do something with the football when he shouldn’t. It ends up coming loose. I think that one was technically picked, but I think he was hit. Ball came loose, popped in the air, caught before it hit the ground. Now he has this one under his belt. And so the more he experiences this, is that not eventually going to click in his This would be the worry if you’re a Patriots fan is that it never clicks. But I’m with you. I think it will click eventually. He’ll be in the grasp. He’ll see somebody open and he’ll say, “Boy, old me would have tried to get it to that guy, but I’m just gonna especially on first down. On first down, I’m just going to go down here and live to see another play.” I thought Vrabel was in a weird way after the game. I thought he it was a little almost sarcastic or just biting. This was classic Vrabel. Hey, you have to understand like you can, and I’m paraphrasing here, but he said he uses the words save the day. You can save the day on another play or on the next play. And to me, that’s Rael acknowledging what I’m sure he knows, what I’m sure Josh McDaniels has talked with May about. You don’t have to always be the hero. I know you’re not surrounded by the greatest talent. I don’t know if they would even acknowledge that to him, but I would say that to him now. Hey, you’re not surrounded by the best supporting cast in football on your offense. You’re not. But you also don’t have to save their asses every single time you touch the ball. That doesn’t have to be the approach. because when you do, that’s sometimes when you make your gravest mistakes. And it’s so funny because, you know, forever, but especially now, the praise that goes to superhuman, superhero plays, whether it’s Mahomes, I mean, Mahomes throws it backwards on Sunday night. Just a horrendous play, but it ends up being great because he runs over and strips it. That was a great play. I mean, is it an idiotic play that became a great play? It was so jeter. It was such a jeter play. Um, but to me, these guys are under the impression, well, I’m a superhuman player. I’m a franchise quarterback. I need to make things happen out here. And the Patriots had and showed that they had a good enough defense on Sunday that they were fine. You didn’t have to do that. I mean, yes, it was 144 for far longer than anybody wanted it to be, but leave it at 14 to 14. Your defense is going to get you the ball back again. Even if you end up in second and 14 because of your sack and clip clip, maybe you can get a field goal out of it, maybe you punt it, but you’re going to get the ball back. You’re not going to give it to them, which is what they did. And they turned that into the touchdown. I think this year too your point about them just being easier to watch the the fact that it’s not a miracle now every time they convert on third and seven maybe eventually over the course of the season he comes to understand it’s it’s not the death nail it once was say the deathnell it was in 2024 for us to take a sack the drive isn’t necessarily over because we moved back on what’s now we we have the ability to pick up eight and now it’s third and medium as opposed to third and long and I have the ability to scramble with my legs and pick that thing up or I can hit Trayvon Henderson out of the backfield or Hunter Henry as as dependable as he’s ever been and we’ll find him on third. We can survive a bad play. I think that’s part of the mentality that he’s going to have to develop here. All right, I think we’ve done enough plumbing of the Patriots loss. Um, but I did want to highlight one interesting trend from around the league that I think Patriots fans will be arrested by, and that is the fact that M. Jones has reached two wins with the Ners already and Drake May by my count has two wins with the Patriots. It’s an eyeopening development, Phil. And I just want to acknowledge it. There’s not a lot we can do to go into this and explore it. But I told you before, folks, and I might have been wrong about Deario Douglas, and I might have done a bad job of highlighting that should have been some air under the ball that Drake May threw into the end zone, but I was ahead of the curve on M. Jones. He will start and win a playoff game, not as a starter, but perhaps as a backup coming up. If you’re the Cincinnati Bengals, do you make a call on Drake on uh M. Jones right now? Well, so I would have, although now he’s dealing with a knee injury apparently that might make him unavailable moving forward as Brock Pury is getting healthy and could be back in the starting lineup. So, I still might make that call. You know, there’s going to be a team out there that is going to need a starting quarterback at some point during the second half of the season and maybe this knee injury by then is cleared up for M. Jones. This is just a it’s just such a great case study, Tom, in situations and how important they are for players at that position. Even though it is this transcendent position, it’s the most valuable position in sports, it is at the same time maybe the most dependent position in sports. It’s dependent on the play caller and the coaching. It’s dependent on the offensive line. It’s dependent on the weapons you have. He has a first round receiver and Ricky Pearl, there he is, maybe the best running back in the league. Christian McCaffrey who looks like he’s rediscovered the the fountain of youth here and he’s got what is universally considered one of the best offensive minds on the planet and Kyle Shanahan calling the plays and wouldn’t you know it he’s he’s winning some football games. It it does matter. It is so weird. Taquan Thornton is with the Kansas City Chiefs now and he’s not ripping things up. He’s not the second coming of Mark Duper, but he looks fine. He looks pretty good. He looks pretty stunning how good he looks. Uh meanwhile, Jabril Pepper is separating Antonio Gibson from the football and taking great delight in that. Uh this Patriots team is fascinating to me and I think that Mike Vrabel really articulated things well when he said on Wii on Monday, a good way to close this particular podcast. Mike, have at it. This is how it’s going to be every week. So, take your heart pills and and be good in situational football. I agree with that. Garlic, maybe omega-3s, all that stuff helps. Fish oil. Yep. Fish oil. That’s going to help your circulation. You want to get that in your body before Carolina because I know you’re gonna be having some high blood pressure if Bryce Young and company are smarter than the Patriots on Sunday. You can’t fix stupid. Or can you? [Music]

How does Mike Vrabel hold his players accountable after mistakes cost them the win against the Steelers. What should the Patriots do about Rhamondre Stevenson’s fumble issues? What can Drake Maye learn from his mistakes against Pittsburgh? Tom Curran and Phil Perry discuss that and much more!

1:00-How does Mike Vrabel handle holding his players accountable?
5:00-What should the Patriots do about Rhamondre Stevenson’s fumble issues?
10:00-Are the Patriots a good team?
12:00-A look at the points the Patriots ALMOST had
16:30-What can Drake Maye learn from his mistakes against Pittsburgh?

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