SAINTS SQUAD SHOW: Spencer Rattler Steady, New Orleans Defense Disappoints In Loss to Patriots

SAINTS SQUAD SHOW: Spencer Rattler Steady, New Orleans Defense Disappoints In Loss to Patriots

Hello and welcome back to the Saints Squad. I’m your host Dylan Sanders of Saints Wire and Pelicans Roundtable. And I don’t know guys, I just think that Spencer Rattler probably should have caught all of his passes for him, not fumbled it, and not given up 300 yards. I’m Darien Gray of Who that Dish and this game feels oddly and unfortunately familiar to the first three matchups of the year. It’s the Saint squad. Everything New Orleans Saint every week, covering all the big hits and gamechanging plays from down in the Big Easy, the way only Locked on Podcast Network can. Get ready and squad up. It’s the Saint Squad Show starting now. Howdy, Internet Nation, and welcome back to the Saint Squad Show, part of the Lock Podcast Network, your team every day. Thank you for making us your first listen every Sunday and Wednesday. We have a unique group of experts here ready to bring you a fun and informative show on everything New Orleans Saints. Today we’re going to be diving into the somewhat disappointing loss to the New England Patriots. It felt like they could have had a chance, but they didn’t. We’re going to dump we’re going to give our instant reactions. We’re going to dive into the defense, dive into the offense, hand out some player of the game awards, and uh have some fun with the chat along the way. Right now, it’s just me and Darien. We’re going to have Ross jump in at some point. It’s kind of how these Sunday episodes go. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. Like our players, we sweat every detail because when you make every move count, pulling off the unexpected is only the beginning. Stay tuned later for highlights in this week’s Moving the Game Forward. Mazda move and be moved. Darien, why don’t you go ahead and start us off with your instant reactions to this game? I know it’s not going to be a fun one to talk about, you know, for most of it, but why don’t you get us started? Yeah. I felt like this game was really familiar to three of the first four, not the first three, but the first game, second game, and the fourth one against Buffalo in which you were in the game, you were playing close, and then at the end, you had a chance to win. You didn’t come out with the victory. It just felt like the same script. You get the ball late in the fourth quarter. Are you gonna be able to drive down and get the touchdown or field goal depending on what the game was? This time, yet again, they didn’t deliver. And it’s a disappointing trend that we continue to see. But I’ll say this, the difference between this game and those games is it felt like you weren’t really in the same group, maybe even weren’t even in adjacent groups. With with New England, I’m not gonna say that you guys are in the same spot because I do believe that the Patriots are in a better place than the Saints are right now. This was 100% a winnable game going in. This was a game that I thought they had a chance to win. I would not have picked them to win, but I did think they had a chance. And it’s a game when you play close like this, you’re frustrated with yourself that you weren’t able to pull it out. And to me, the cliche of field goals versus touchdowns. Some things are cliches for a reason. Sometimes things are often said because they are true. And this is one of those cases. While the Saints had to settle for Blake Groupy field goals, I mean, golf clap to him for making the field goals. I know he had frustrations with him, so I’ll give some sort of shout out there, but when you have to consistently settle for field goals and the Patriots are getting touchdowns on their big plays, that’s the difference in a game where the offense began to slow down for both teams in the second half. Yeah, it is. Uh, you know, it it’s it sucks because it is a win very winnable game like you mentioned and it is one where you get the the Blake groupy game that we all you know wanted. Went four for four, hit a 54 yard one. It was a great one. Uh, he was good. Good. You know, you have like some young starters. Danny Stman is getting in the game. Danny Stuts Quincy Riley’s, you know, maybe the best quarterback. We’ll get into that a little bit later. Uh, Chris Olive is catching some passes. Uh and Spencer Rattler overall I think had a great day. Uh he had a you know there were a couple miscuses. Can’t ask anyone to be perfect. Uh but I think overall he had one of his better days. So then it all is for not because you can’t get a stop at any point really. Uh and definitely not whenever it matters. So it’s frustrating. It’s definitely frustrating is the is the number one word I would put to this game. Yeah. And you mentioned how Rattler had an overall good game. I’ll be interested to go back in on film review and really look at that red zone to 30 yard line efficiency because I think one drive stalled out at like the 21. So technically it won’t go into the red zone stats if I’m not mistaken. But I’d be really interested to go in and look at to see what broke down each time because Rattler did have a good game. But I think it’ll be very difficult for people to continue to grasp that if the Saints don’t deliver points in the red zone because at the end of the day, uh I think the conversation around Rattler and Shuck, it sometimes distorts what the conversation is around all quarterbacks and that’s that your offense is successes and failure all fall at your feet. They all fall in your lap. So when the Saints aren’t doing well in the red zone, that’s going to be a conversation around Kell Moore and Spencer Rattler. Doesn’t matter if a person dropped a pass here or maybe this person didn’t read this hole or you there was just a good play by the defense. When you have a history of a problem, it’s going to fall back on the team because everybody is making this happen to you. So, it must be something that you yourself are doing. Whether it was I didn’t love the holding call on Banks there. I I understood it if I wasn’t Well, we can talk about there are a lot of questionable calls in this one. Yeah, it wasn’t a great receiating day in my opinion. and I I don’t have to worry about getting fined, so we can definitely talk about it. But I didn’t love that call. I understood it. I his arm was kind of around. I felt like, you know, the DN slipped. It looked worse than I think it actually was. But whether it’s penalties, whether it’s uh unforced errors, whether it’s bad play calling, it just feels like the Saints continue to find a way to come up short in the red zone. So to bring that all the way back to Rattler as we were talking about that’s going to fall on his shoulders. That’s going to fall in his lap when the conversation gets started whether it’s fair or not fair. And I think until those things get straightened out consistently or at least for a game where the Saints come out with a win. I think I think that’s going to be a difficult point for people to get over when trying to understand that Rattler played well in pretty much the other regions of the of the field. Yeah. I mean it is it’s one of those things of you know bigger number equals better person uh especially better football player but watching other games watching other other teams and it Spitzer Rattler is far from the issue of this team. It’s feels crazy that we have to keep saying it but people still always complain about Spencer Rattler because the offense is not putting up points but at the same time you have a run game that doesn’t work. you have an offensive line that is struggling and whenever they’re, you know, whenever they’re getting stops, it’s because they’re holding and then you have players dropping passes that hit them and then whenever the player whenever, you know, the players get open, then it’s whenever Spencer Rer misses a throw and then is held at the stake uh because he misses a throw. I I you know, there are a lot of people that still think that I uh really want Spencer RER to fail for some reason. It happens every week in the comments. Uh I don’t know how many more weeks I have to go of defending him and saying that he is fine. They don’t need to make a change for that to change. But uh you know, I’ll stick my flag in again. I think Spencer is perfectly fine for this team and he’s a perfectly capable NFL quarterback and I think we’ve seen that time and time again. The weapons, however, really let him down in this one and we’ll we’ll get into that a little bit later. Um other first instant reactions, I think we have to talk about the officiating. Uh it it was consistent. I’ll give them that uh throughout the day. Uh but it was bad. It was poor. uh very very bad on both teams or both sides. Uh really terrible officiating crew in this one. Yeah, I I thought that that diggs PI I thought it was an okay call only because Riley jumped and the way Riley jumped it made it look like I don’t know if he sold her or anything, but it definitely made it look like I could have got to this ball if you didn’t put your hand there. It didn’t feel like it was a lot of contact, but the reaction said it was. But then the next play, um, was that Riley on that? And I think the next play was Riley was going against another receiver and it felt like he was a little handsy and they didn’t call it. So it was like it just was it was not good officiating. I thought that third and short that was toss I thought that that was a I thought that that defender was a little close on that. It just like you said, they were consistently bad. They say if you if you’re going to give consistency, that’s all you can ask for, but when you see multiple calls, you’re just like I don’t know the banks the banks uh holding that we talked about. These are pivotal plays like the the diggs reception that would have been that would probably would have put points on the board. I can’t remember the exact score at the time but that would uh went a long way and probably icing the Saints a little that probably yeah the game would have been a little bit over a little bit earlier. Um, and you know, honestly, just to put it bluntly, Brandon Staley should be thanking his lucky stars that this that the officiating crew is bad because his team was getting beat consistently over and over again. Talk about the real bad one. The real PI Yeah. Oh my god. The first one was one of the worst ones ever. Made no sense. Uh, yeah. The brightest daily defense is getting picked apart today. I mean, part of it is Drake May is a really really good quarterback and he’s a great young quarterback and I I think that uh he is uh he he’s looking to be on that that next level, that next tier of quarterback. Uh I I would definitely put him above Rattler for right now. Yeah. Uh got to keep him guessing if I’m if I’m pro or anti- Rattler. For those who don’t know, I actually texted him that entire script where he started talking about Rattler. I I ghost wrote that whole thing. Yeah, this is my real opinion. spins around never throw another quarterback. No. Uh, no. Drake Vay is great and uh that’s part of it. And then, you know, it’s kind of bittersweet to see Kanan Booty picking up big putting up big games. Uh, and it is, you know, especially bittersweet because I used to live in Buffalo. See Stefon Diggs put up big games in a different uniform. So, like I don’t know. It’s It’s interesting. Bad defense. I want to see more out of the secondary for sure. Yes. Uh, Kool-Aid McKinstry has had a a great game last week and then immediately comes back and has a terrible game. Uh, Jonas Sanker was getting beat a little bit. I mean, you know, rookie struggles maybe. Yeah. Bad. What do you think of the defense so far? Okay. So, I’m going to try to keep it limited because I don’t want to, you know, eat up too much what we’re going to do in in a second segment, but do we just want to say what it is? The Giants don’t have any receivers. I mean, like, if we’re being honest, Kool-Aid didn’t look that good throughout the year, and he was playing against guys that were talented receivers, whether it was a Marvin Harrison Jr., uh, who I know everybody has an opinion on, but I there’s talent there. I can’t remember who was there at at uh, San Francisco, they had so many injuries, so I don’t remember who was playing that day, but you go through Jackson Smith and Jigba, you have Cooper Cup, you have players in Seattle, you have players in Buffalo, right? New York don’t have any receivers. So, I mean, he had good plays independent of that. I don’t want to completely take away from it, but there’s just a difference when you’re faced with talented guys in front of you. And I think that Kool-Aid has not shown that he can perform when there’s formidable talent in front of him. And I think we hoped that the confidence would be restored. I don’t think anybody championed it as this lock down game from Kool-Aid last week, but there was a hope that the confidence would be there and that everything would kind of click for him because we know how important that that trait is at his position and it just wasn’t the case. It just wasn’t whether it was I swear that he was bouty when it was when he was at LSU and everybody just said booty and you were LSU, you were there at LSU. Am I wrong? It’s booty. It has it always been booty? Yeah, I think it was people giving them the benefit of the doubt. And I think there’s a city called Bouty. Uh I think the city there’s a there is a but no that’s but that is but Louisiana. I’m pretty sure it is Booty. It’s Kan Booty. He was not Booty today. I’ll give him that. He was uh he was he was having a great game. Yeah, he but yeah. Okay. No, he was not. But I it was just it was a rough day and I felt like this was for the Saints defense. I felt that this was the pivotal matchup and they lost it and I think it was a big reason on why they lost the game. I just didn’t expect it to be Douglas to be the one hurting them early off. Like I thought it would be just Booty and Diggs, but it ended up being Douglas early and they got lucky that that Douglas didn’t have 100 yards on two catches. So yeah, see it was uh it was bad. I guess overall final first instant reactions I would probably say Spencer outler good offense uh still really needs to figure out in the red zone because you know finally you got a good blade groupy game but you couldn’t get it uh you know couldn’t get in the end zone. So that’s a lot of points in a in a in a one-sore game. Those uh those field goals add up uh in terms of that that minus four points. And then the defense really bad. The pass rush was not good enough. We haven’t talked about the pass rush yet. I’m sure we’ll talk about it a little bit coming up. Pass rush wasn’t good. The secondary wasn’t great. Overall, disappointing, frustrating game. What What are your What are your final uh What are your final instant reactions? Final instant reaction is the Saints need help at all the premier positions pretty much. Like I just think you do. You need receivers who going to come down with certain plays and honestly I think that you got bailed out cuz I thought he called and fumbled. But um you need you need guys pass catchers whether it’s a tight end or a receiver. You need guys who are going to come down with those pivotal plays, hold on to the ball. You need guys who are going to attack and finish at the quarterback. You need guys who can cover on the back end. All of the deficiencies for the Saints I thought were very much so on display against the New England Patriots. And the reason that probably feels almost as bad as it did against Seattle despite the game being much closer is that you and the Patriots are much closer than you and Seattle are. So now when all your deficiencies are exposed by someone you could consider your peer, now we we we really need to have a conversation at that point. So that’s that’s my last instant reaction. All right. Well, uh we’re going to get into the defense coming up next. We’re going to talk pass, rush, secondary, all of that. point some fingers and have some fun. You know the saying, look good, feel good. The problem is that most dress clothes only check one of those boxes. You can look sharp, but you’re probably going to feel stiff, hot, and they’re all high maintenance. That’s why there’s Mizen and Maine. Mizen and Mine makes classic men’s m men’s wear with performance fabrics. So, it’s effortless to look effortless to look sharp and feel comfortable. They actually invented the performance fabric dress shirt over 10 years ago and they’ve perfected it ever since. I love that you can go from the office to dinner or even out to the golf course and still feel comfortable all day. 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Uh, I’ll start with what I thought was extremely interesting was the miscommunication or maybe lack of trust between Yonas Sanker and Quincy Riley on the two big plays where they were both the ones involved and it looked kind of like on the first touchdown Yonis jumped a little too far outside, but it felt like he should have just trusted that Riley would be there and he should have maintained inside leverage. And then on the other touchdown, it felt like Riley didn’t trust Sanker on the inside and kind of tried to play a little too far inside and it ended up with the outbreaking route scoring for a touchdown. And I just thought that was probably one of the more interesting things that I saw with two players with in my opinion being first mistake being on Sanker and then the second one being on on Riley. they made the same exact mistake and it was just it was a really interesting play and I wonder in the psyche was there the question of I gotta do this all myself because last time Sanker wasn’t there on Riley’s mentality or on Riley’s mind. I I that was one of the things that really stood out to me. But all in all, you just you didn’t do a good job keeping a cap on the on the offense. You just had too many big plays somewhere negated by by penalty. I think that both of those were questionable penalties, but you’ll take it when it helps you out. But yeah, the Saints just didn’t do a good job of keeping a lid on this defense. I mean, on this Patriot offense, whether it was Booty, whether it was Diggs, whether it was uh uh Douglas, it just didn’t seem to matter. Everybody was able to eat down the field. Yeah. And that one big play really hurt Quincy Riley’s numbers for the day. He was targeted two he was targeted four times. Gave up two catches and 45 yards with 29 of them coming on that one big play. Uh and to be fair it was just it wasn’t terrible that one of them was pretty bad coverage. The other one was good cover good coverage better catch. It was overall though, I still think right now I would say Quincy Riley is the team’s best quarterback and that is not a great thing because he is I’m really happy with him and I think that he’s you know showing good stuff and he’s looking good for a rookie but Kool-Aid needs to be way better. Ikeum was a bit of a disappointing signing and then the rest of the quarterback room is non-existent outside of Elante Taylor, but even he is not playing good enough to where you’re like, man, they really got to give him that paycheck after this year. Yeah. How did you feel about that? The the report coming out that a mid-season extension was being discussed. I I didn’t I didn’t necessarily think that he was the perfect candidate for a mid-season extension. Maybe you get to the end of the year, but I didn’t necessarily see midyear. I yeah I mean I think I’ve always been a little bit lower than most people on Alante Taylor just because I you know I I do think that there is value there. He is versatile. He can he can cover both inside and outside but he he seems more of a uh jack of all trades, master of none to me. And that’s not the kind of guy that I think that the Saints right now need to be like well we got to have him. We got to extend him in the middle of the year. I was a little bit surprised uh about that. But it’s it’s okay. I mean, I I I do get it. Uh I bet he’s probably really big in that in that locker room. He is a solid player. He can do a lot. He’s the kind of player that even, you know, I think coaches probably like more than fans. Uh I’ll say I can see that. I can see that. I can see that. And I think your point about Quincy Riley being the best corner on the team, it kind of has me conflicted because they’re both young guys. I have come to grips with the idea that the Saints need to get a number one quarterback next year, but like I said, you kind of need guidance. Number one, new number ones in most places. Yeah. So, you know, may maybe you don’t um get that guy this off season, but I could easily see Kool-Aid and and Riley competing for the second quarterback job next year because Riley still has to have time. Like, I think Sanker Sanker had those. I’m just gonna put one on one of them on him because that’s how I felt in the moment. And you know, maybe film review and everything it it’ll be different. But in the moment, it felt like one of those plays was on him. The first touchdown, he got absolutely turned around. It happens, right? And how do you respond? Like you’re just going to have to respond on this play or on on the season. And we’ll see what happens when Riley gets his moment where it’s like, “Oh yeah, that was that was a bad one.” Then I’ll see what his response is. But I I think I think that the quarterback position is being exposed as something that really needs to be addressed and not something that you can just get by with. And I don’t want to turn this into a draft conversation because I I I just think it’s a little early, but it will be interesting to see at the end of the year when you have, let’s just assume, Kool-Aid and and Riley starting for the majority of the year, health permitting, and then you have Young and Granderson starting on the edge. I think those are two positions where you think you might need a top guy, especially early in the draft. I wonder which one of those positions end up looking like more of a need going into the offseason. All right, let’s uh move on a little bit to the defensive line. Let’s go with the, you know, Chase. Let’s start, let’s talk about Chase Young because he finally played. He’s back. Um, and I think he had a quintessential Chase Young game. He he made a couple plays. He he had some pressures and came with no sacks. Uh, you know, Chase Young, the almost sack king, is back. Uh, he looks like he did before. And I think that’s both a good thing and a bad thing. I think he had a a fine game. Uh he had a couple of impactful plays, but overall I’d say okay. Oh, and uh I I have I have I’m getting word here. A third person joining. Hey, sources sources sources say Ross Jackson is joining us. Ross, we are going over the defensive side of the ball. We just started talking about Chase Young, but Okay, I’ll come back later. hope. Um, we can Yeah. So, I guess start there. What are your thoughts on the defense? You can start with Chase Young. You can you can go from there. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, Chase Young was kind of, you know, a non-factor, which isn’t massively surprising in his first game back, everything like that. But certainly, you would have liked to have seen him be able to finish some of those plays where he got close to the quarterback. Kind of same old issues for New Orleans. Almost sack after almost sack after almost sack. And it seems like Chase Young is, you know, going to continue or at least has continued here early to be a culprit of exactly that. But this is a team didn’t do a lot on the defensive side to help itself out at all. Whether it came to blown coverages downfield, they got lucky on a couple of plays. Um, and then of course no pressure on the quarterback. Like that’s that’s not going to be a very good uh formula for you while the offense is also struggling. And so um yeah, I thought this was a really disappointing display by the Saints defense. It just is coming off of a five consecutive turnover game where they were kind of riding high and then this is the performance they turn in after that less than ideal. Yeah. Yeah. Um I want to talk about a move that was made that I think is the only thing that I saw on the defensive side of the ball that made me excited and I think that even if you know that change didn’t stay throughout the entire game, it was a great decision. I’m talking about Pete Warner getting benched and uh Danny Stman coming in for a little bit at least six plays. I I’ll use the term benched loosely. He came back in the game a little bit later, but he did get he did get sat with and Danny Susman came and Danny Sutman looks strong. They went back to to Pete Warner and look at that. Pete Warner was playing a little bit more aggressive. He had a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. He was playing, you know, like he just got benched. And I think that lighting a fire under this team usually, especially on the defensive side of the ball, is what needs to happen. And I think we saw it with Pete Warner in in that moment. Let me say let me say this. Dylan is a very happy person, but hearing him jolly say that Pete Warner got benched was hilarious to me because it just sound almost like a celebration. I know it’s not, but like that was so funny to me. But uh I’ll talk after this. I’ll talk after the show. But but in all seriousness, a sometimes you do need that fire number one. B, did I say A or did I say one first? I don’t know. One A. Yeah, whatever. You know, letters ABC one, two, three. The point is it’s good to see that fire because sometimes you need to let people know there are repercussions. You’re not playing up to the standard and this is what happens. And I think that if that’s just a message being sent, that alone is something that I think is positive. You mentioned how he responded to that, but also when Stsman came in, I noticed Stzman and not just because he has a neck pad on, but because he also was getting engaged in the run game because he was he was to me the stzman I thought and he was a I’m not going to say a standout, but I noticed him on the field. And I think when you’re getting your first couple of snaps, that’s a good thing. We’ll see what happens. To me, the idea of putting uh the idea of sitting down Pete Warner even momentarily for the mixture of Stalird and Stzman tells me that this could have a more permanent move happen in the future if uh if Wat Watson if Warner does not rise to the occasion. That’s what it tells me. So, I’m on I’m now I’m on alert. Now, I’m watching and monitoring. I mean, this is what happened with Quincy Riley, right? like Quincy Riley started to get mixed in and everything and then all of a sudden he became, you know, more mixed in and he became a starter and of course that’s aided right now with an injury for Isaac Adam. But I I mean the Saints have already shown that they will go out there and get a look at these young players and then give them the opportunities that they’re earning and that they’re deserving. They didn’t just take Pete Werner off the field for Danny Stzman. They took him off the field for Isaiah Stalbert, too. And they had Isaiah Stalbert in there, especially on third downs. They like what he can do in coverage. she’s kind of earned that role over the course of the past couple of games. So, it’s been really interesting to kind of see them undergo that. I think it gives you a pretty good indication that this is a team that knows very much where it is, knows very much what it is. I mean, even down to Mickey Lumis talking to Alvin Camra about the potential of a trade and other teams calling and stuff like that. You don’t do that if you’re not expecting that there’s a chance that that player says, “Yeah, I would like to go to a winning opportunity because this isn’t a winning opportunity.” You just trade the player. And so for New Orleans, like it’s clear that they have a pretty good understanding of where they are. And I think that some of these things that we’re seeing in terms of younger players getting more opportunities, things like that is a pretty good indication of that. And I’ll tell you why I really like it is because I was a big fan of this draft class when it happened. And I think you have some guys specifically in the mid rounds who they could easily fall fall in and just kind of just get lost. We talked about this earlier, Ross, about the Saints probably needing a number one corner and the idea of Riley maybe competing with Kool-Aid where he’s putting up tape right now to see if these two do go head-to-head or, you know, in in the future of that position. Stman’s one of those guys in the middle. I hate that Brotten ended up getting hurt, but we see Sanker. The more guys who get kind of naturally put into the lineup, I think you’re going to have a better idea of what you have in this draft class. And in my opinion, the 2025 draft class has the potential to field you maybe three, four starters out of just this class. And if you’re Kell Moore going into your first year and then going into the second year after that, this is the type of class you want as a foundation. But we need to see these players on the field. We saw Sanker on the field. I think that he’s shown himself. Yes, I I didn’t think it was the best day today, but this happens. Even veterans have rough days. You look at a guy like Kelvin Banks Jr. need we say anymore. I think that that has already been obvious with him. Then you have a guy like Stzman who comes in might have a might be able to have a a impact. So these are just things to monitor throughout the year in my opinion. Yeah. Final overarching defensive takeaway I think is the quarterback room needs to improve a little bit better. Uh the coverage is inconsistent. Uh like Ross’s internet connection. Let’s go. I don’t know what happened there. Actually, I have no idea what happened. It was just like your phone’s not available. It’s like it’s right there. It’s very available. Um, Kool-Aid McKinstry targeted five times, gave up five catches for 83 yards. Elante Taylor targeted seven times, gave up five catches for 38 yards. Quincy Riley targeted four times, gave up two catches for 45 yards. Jonas Stinker targeted once, gave up a catch for 53 yards. That that one big one earlier. Uh, overall I think they just need, you know, we we’ve said it a couple times, they need playmakers all over the place, but the secondary and quarterback especially is something that I’ll be looking at heavily next year in the draft and, you know, in free agency, this team likes to spend money. So maybe they maybe they’ll do it at some point and they might actually have some money to spend next year. Might have some might have some money to spend. The good news rather than spending fictional money, right? One of the good news pieces of all this for New Orleans is that like Quincy Riley also has slot versatility. And so if something happens and you can’t reach a contract extension with Alante Taylor or you get a really good offer for him or something like that, you could still move Riley and allow him to be sort of this impact player in the slot and then address your outside corner positions with Kool-Aid McKentry and then whoever it is that you you add to the team, whether via the draft or via free agency. So you have some options there that would still keep those guys some of those guys on the field depending upon how things go with the future of Alante Taylor. He’s kept contract talks kind of open with the Saints over the course of the off seasonason. So we or excuse me the course of the season so far. So we’ll see where things go in terms of potentially getting an extension. But with that November 4th trade deadline coming up that might expedite a little bit of that process or at least get them to the point to where they’re comfortable and have a really good groundwork already laid to where when they get to the offseason they can kind of make those decisions at that point. But yeah, it’s going to be interesting to see how they go about addressing it because it’s a really young secondary and right now a secondary that hinders on um ineffective in some cases and so finding ways to be able to kind of create more consistency in the effectiveness a game like Kool-Aid had last week, a game like Jonas Sanker has had already. Just finding a way to get all those things happening at the same time as opposed to today where it felt like none of those things were going right. That’s got to be a top priority and that’s going to be a lot of execution stuff and a lot of potential adjustments by Brandon Salem. I’m going to go ahead and say it right now. We are going to have some trade talk on Wednesday’s episode. So, come back for that. We’re going to have pick it up pick it up trade season. But, as for the rest of this episode, we’re going to be moving on to the offense uh coming up next and then getting into our players of the game. [Music] This episode is brought to you by Mazda. Uh Mazda’s moving the game forward for those who believe that it’s not just about playing the game, it’s about redefining it. There are moments that do more than put points on the board. They move crowds, move culture, and keep moving the game forward. This week’s moment that moved the game forward is Blake Groupy going four for four from his field goals. I’m a big believer that the apology needs to be as loud as the disrespect and I’ll own up to the disrespect that I’ve had for play group B. Most of it most of it in good chess, but uh you know he hasn’t been as as good as I would say that you know a starting kicker needs to be. But today he went four for four, hit a big 50 yard 54 yard field goal. So here you go. An entire segment of me saying good job Blake Krooppy, you did it. You made your field goals and you know everyone’s going to be happy this week. uh because we’ve talked about it whenever you have a field goal missed in the red zone it is back backbreaking and you know halts the game completely. So making your field goals moving the game forward is exactly what you need to see out of the kicker that you have because whenever you follow what moves you the unexpected is only the beginning and just like there’s more to every highlight there’s more to a Mazda vehicle. Mazda move and be moved. All right, let’s get into the def the offensive side of things. And I guess we can start with Ross. Where do you want to start on offense? Yeah, I mean, um I I think we should start with Spencer Rattler’s day. I thought Spencer Rattler had a strong day, included over 76% of his passes. uh no touchdowns, no interceptions, but just, you know, the offense as a whole just it’s like they get past the 50 yard line and then things just kind of stagnate for them. You know, the the field condenses and they’re not really sure where to go. Kell Moore says that’s more so on him than anything else, but you know, it’s been it’s been six games of it now. So, you’d like to start seeing the improvement as opposed to hearing whose fault it is. And so I think when you have a really strong game from your quarterback like that, the thing that you need to be able to do is actually put points on the board. And u I thought that he did a good job. I thought he was aggressive. He came out on that first play and could have leaded that 50 plus yard pass uh to Chris Ave down the right sideline and it felt like ah they were about to start cooking at that point, but then just an inability to be able to get into the end zone uh again and everything. And so that’s always going to create not necessarily a perception, but it’s always going to kind of put a ceiling or cap what the perception could be. If you can find the end zone, you’re having a very, very different conversation about this game, about these players. And the conversation around Spencer R is probably even more positive at that point. But I think even without that, he had a pretty strong game today. Yeah, I thought that I thought that there was a couple of things that went wrong and most of them were after the 50. Like he said, I I wanted to check to see how often that the Saints got inside the 20 because often times we make this a red zone conversation. And as time goes on, all you do is go reflect on red zone numbers. Heck, I’ve pulled up red zone numbers here. But they had a drive that stopped just short of the 20. So technically that’s not red zone inefficiency. And then as you go back and you look, they’re one of two in the red zone. So I think that if you only look at numbers, then sometimes it’s a little bit misleading. So Ross, I thought it was a great point that you brought up once they pass the 50 because sometimes it’s inside the 30. Sometimes it’s between that 30 to 35 range when you’re at fringe field goal uh uh range. So I I I did, man, I thought Rattler looked poised for most of it. I thought he once again handled the pressure. I kind of don’t get tired of being repetitive on that because it’s one of the best developments that he had over the off seasonason going into year two is that he’s able to diagnose when to move and when to just and how to move because whether it’s I need to step to the side, step up or if I just need to kind of take off right now, he tends to have a really good feel for when to run when he’s in the pocket. So, I think that’s still the favorite trait of mine that he’s shown. But offensively, I just think you need you need players who are going to rise to the occasion. And right now, I don’t know if the Saints have them. Just simple and plain. I don’t know if when the big moments are here if you have players who are going to rise to the occasion. I think you have guys who can make plays throughout the first 45 to 55 minutes, but when the last five minutes come up, I don’t know who I’m looking to and I’m saying outside of Alvin, that’s the guy who I think is going to make the play. Throw it up to him. They’re going to make the play. I maybe they might make the play, but I don’t have anybody I feel definite about on this team. And honestly, that kind of goes offense and defense. I know we’re not talking about the defense, but I don’t really feel like I struggle to find the impact players on this team. And the me impact players are the guys when the moments are at their highest, they’re going to show up the most. And I think that running back and Alvin Chimera and then linebacker and Deario Davis are probably the closest that they have to that at the moment. But a lot of times we’re talking about in that moment plays that are made through the air and they’re largely taken out of that equation. So the Saints need more impact players. That’s my biggest takeaway for the Saints offensively. Yeah. Yeah. It was a it was a weaker day on the ground for them. Uh the running backs. But again, I don’t think that’s a big a huge point of worry for me. If anything, it just shines a light on how much more they need playmakers in the passing game because, you know, what we’ve seen before, you’re not going to be like, man, Alvin Chimera, he’s not a good enough running back. Kindre Miller’s, you know, been good this year uh as a as an RB2. Uh the offensive line was, you know, had had some inconsistencies, but overall, it was all right. But whenever games like this where you don’t have the run going, you need those guys to step up on offense. You need those pass catchers to come through in the clutch. You need all of those things and they just simply haven’t had it. Uh and you know, you you you look you see a game where you have Chris Alve, he has a big catch. Rashid Jahed then disappears. You know, getting people on the same page and creating big plays all over the place is where you need to see. Yeah. I think a lot of a lot of the I mean it’s like the conversation that we had a couple weeks ago where somebody had asked is Chris Olive a true like wide receiver one and if you’re going to be the team’s top option like some of these drops I mean that second down drop that led to the three and out that effectively created the three and out after they got the ball back with four minutes left in the game like that’s a massive drop and that’s that’s crossing route placed a little high but caught it and effectively threw it into the ground like just not being able to come up with plays case like that. Um the fade in the end zone felt like one that should have been caught too or maybe could have been caught as well. Like you need you need a guy that you can really trust to go out there and make those catches. And right now it doesn’t feel like the Saints really have that number one I’m the focal point of your offense in the passing game and if you put the ball in my direction, I’ll make that play. I mean, look at the plays that Stefon Diggs made. Uh even one that didn’t count, which was an offensive pass interference penalty that I thought was absolute BS, by the way. Um, that was a terrible call. And there were a few of those. I think I saw your I saw you on social media, Dylan, talking about how like they all great they brought in the uh the blind uh the first the first all blind officiating crew. Yeah, man. They really really It was all over the place. Bad on both teams. And yeah, I I I said it earlier, you know, the Saints honestly should be lucky that this the officiating was bad and this one or could have been way uglier than than it was because the the Saint secondary just wasn’t uh wasn’t stopping anybody. But again, you know, we keep talking about the defense and it keeps slipping into the offense just because I think that was the biggest takeaway for me today, especially the the inconsistencies there. But the the offense I think was the better half of the team uh or the better third of the team. Sorry to all the special teams. Uh they barely saw the punter, so I don’t blame you. You know, you didn’t see the punter much. So that Yeah. And even even he had a 23 yard shank off the right side of his foot. Like Yeah. But I’ll say this, I think the reason that the defense keeps sliding into this conversation is because they’re there’s less silver there’s no real silver lining for them. Like I think the offense had a silver lining of, you know, they just weren’t able to finish, but they’re putting together some things. You know, hey, Olive got the ball down the field. There’s things where you could say this was good, but on the defensive side, it just felt like it was all bad. So, I think that’s the reason that it tends to just keep blending into the conversation. Yeah. I think I I I didn’t really mean to bleed the defense into the conversation. I was more so talking about you need a wide receiver that can do things like Stefon Diggs can do things. You need a wide receiver that can do things like AJ Brown can do things. You need a wide receiver that can go out there and do things like some of the top option wide outs in this league can go out there and do. The Saints don’t have a Nico Collins, let alone an AJ Brown. You know what I mean? Like they just don’t have that guy that feels like you can consistently count on them to go out there and make big plays. It’s just not there. Now, you have the opportunity sometimes downfield with Rasheed Shahid. You had the opportunity with Chris Olive downfield and those guys made those plays. found Devon down, right? Then he got stripped away from and then it got stripped away, right? And so then I think like for me the big thing is who who’s the guy when it’s, you know, third and seven and you need eight. Who’s the guy when it’s, you know, third and 10 or third and goal from the 10 and you need to put up a lob into the end zone? Like the things just it doesn’t feel like they have that guy. That’s the guy that I’m looking for. And I I I think until you have it, we’re going to continue having these conversations where Olive I think he does enough where you feel good, but then the critical moment happens and you don’t. And that’s the biggest problem because what you’re pointing to are critical moments. So he had six catches for 98 yards is what I think they have. 100%. That’s a that’s a that’s a solid productive game until you start breaking down a the timing of it where he had five for 83 for a long time and then you break down that drop that he that you mentioned earlier. You talk about this other pass where he had to high point it and I was I was literally in my living room when Olive high points the ball and I begin to yell because a I don’t usually see those type of aggressive strong hands guys right there on them and then he drops it and in my opinion it was actually a fumble. I think the conversation of what is and what isn’t a catch makes it all subjective. So either he drops the ball or he fumbles it. Neither one is a good outcome, but those are critical moments where that could have been a first down for the Saints. I think that was a third down attempt. So these are critical moments where you don’t you don’t pop up and you don’t make the play. And not only do you not make the play, it’s one thing when you’re not being targeted, but it’s another when you do get the look and the play is there for you and it seems like he’s not making the play when the play is there. So often we talked about, man, you got to get Olive involved. You gotta do this, you gotta do that, and then it feels like we did this and we did that and then this is the result. And it’s a little bit even more crushing knowing that you asked for this opportunity and you don’t see it. And when I say you, I mean the fans, not a lot of it. To me, it really feels like at this point uh it sticks because you know there are a lot of players with the team. I like I want Chris to do good. I love Rashid Shahid, but it’s like in two years I think we’re going to have like a completely different wide receiver room in New Orleans. Yeah, I think that’s very possible. I It’s not, you know, 100% but it just feels like there there could be a complete shift and it’s not only, you know, the States like both players, you know, need to be better, but they also probably want different opportunities. So, it’s it, you know, I I can see both sides being like, “All right, it’s time to just look somewhere else.” And I think we’ll talk a little bit more about that during trade talk on Wednesday, for sure. I’m sure. Yeah. And that’s what I was going to say. I think the idea of evaluating whether or not Olive can be that guy for you or really trusting if he can develop into being that guy for you is going to be a large part of what you do with him at the trade deadline. I I think that’s going to be a huge part of the conversation. Do you say we want to keep him around and then go get some guy that’s going to be our our top guy and then then you have a conversation what do you pay Olive if you go get another young receiver who we think is going to be our number one. I think like I think all of those conversations are going to go into play. I personally have never been the biggest fan of Olive. I think Ross and I have had this conversation a few times over the years on where I’ve stood on on on the play and I just think that I was never able to put it into words with the critical moment that we’re talking about. I think that he has the talent to lead a decent offense, but I I don’t as a receiving threat, but I don’t know if he has the the the big time moments or the ability to deliver in those big time moments to be the leader of a great receiving attack. And I think that’s finally how I can articulate what I thought about Olive. Sorry, Ross. That’s like two years late. I should have told you that two years ago. Oh, man. All right. Well, let’s get into our, you know, scramble together some players of the game, some some positive takes to take away from this one. And if you have any questions in the chat that you want to ask, you can use Dylan was right because I was the only one to pick the Patriots to win this game. And now me and Ross are tied in our predictions at five and one. So yeah, hashtagdon was right if you want to ask a question and I’m gonna hold you to it. Uh but next we’re going to get into our players of the game. The NFL season is here and FanDuel has an offer you do not want to miss. Right now new customers can bet just $5 and get $300 in bonus bets if you win. That’s right. Pick a bet, put down five bucks, and if it hits, you’ll unlock $300 in bonus bets to use across the app. I’m over at my friend Shay’s house right now. Uh, shout out to Shay. He’s in the chat. Uh, and last night we were playing, you know, watching some college football. He saw me on FanDuel and then we set him up with an account, put down five bucks, his first bet hit, and now he has $300 to lose on crazy parlays that he’s making. But $300 in bonus bets is uh it’s a huge win for just putting down five bucks. Whether you’re a casual fan or love diving into the stats, FanDuel makes the game day experience so much better. I love how FanDuel gives so many ways to play. I’ve built parlays, tried player props, and even followed the live lines during games. So, what are you waiting for? Visit fanuel.com to download the FanDuel app today and get started. All right, let’s wrap it up today uh with the players of the game and let’s start off with Darien. Who is your player of the game in this one? I’m going to go with Jonathan Bullard. He popped out and surprised me with some of the plays on the interior. I actually thought that the interior made some plays in run in the running game for the defense. It was probably the lone bright spot on that side of the ball in my opinion. And Buller could have had three. He had one play where it was taken away for defensive holding where he he grabbed I think it was Campbell to try to free up Pete Warner. He ended up making the tackle himself. He didn’t even really have to do that. He could have had another tackle for loss on his on his resume. But I thought that Bullard in general popped out more than others. Him Brazie got y’all. Like I I thought that the Saints interior stalled out the running game. And I know we don’t love the running game for New England anyway, but when Raandre Stevenson has 13 carries for 18 yards and you’re looking at Trevon Henderson with nine for 27 and Drake May ends up being their leading rusher and a large amount of that is because of scrambling. Do you have a ways for that interior to go in the past? And I think that’s one of the reasons you didn’t see many sacks for the Saints because Young would get him to step up, but there was never any penetration in the in the inside. But on the defensive side of the ball, running or excuse me, on the running side of the ball, I thought that interior did a pretty good job. So, I’ll go with Jonathan Bullard in company, but I thought he was the leader of the bunch with the most TFLs. Yeah. Okay. I like that. I like that. You know, doesn’t feel great that we’re at a point where Jonathan Bullard is getting player of the games for the New Orleans Saints, but uh I like the pick a lot. Ross, who is your player of the game? Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, the only answer to this question is Spencer Rattler. U you know, it’s it’s not that he had like this huge game or something like that. It’s just, you know, he was the most steady player. He had one turnover worthy pass over the middle of the field trying to gun one in. Um, I don’t mind that. Take your risk, especially if you’re feeling good. 20 of 26 on the day. thought he took care of the football, made some good decisions, got off to a really fast start with a big 53 yarder and then or 50 plus yard and then also set a careerhigh again which he set last year last week. Now he’s reset it this week with 8.7 yards per attempt. So you can just kind of feel him getting more comfortable distributing the ball further downfield, the offense kind of opening up a little bit with him at the helm. And so I I I feel like he’s really the only answer that I could probably come up with. I thought the Jonathan Bullet one was a really, really good pull because he had a really strong game. But going outside of that, I feel like Rattler is really the only other answer. Well, I’m gonna go with Adrien Hill, the lead off efficient in this game. Uh because he kept, you know, he kept a couple big plays off the board. He he did more to stop the the Patriots than the Saints did in this one. So, uh, you know, I’m going to give it to Adrien Hill. Shout out to him. Nice. Uh because you know it I was going to go with Rattler, but I also knew that you would pick one of them. Yeah. So I uh I I’ve been scrambling to figure out that guy’s because I completely forgot what it was. Uh so yeah, Adrien Hill, shout out to your crew. Uh it was terrible, but uh you know, keep at it. It helped us. Yeah. Right. I thought uh I thought Brazie had some nice moments, too. He had a couple of really good plays in the run game in particular, which is kind of that place where you’re kind of looking for him to develop. Um, had a couple of nice spin moves in the middle, but wasn’t able to get to the quarterback, which was just kind of the story of the Saints defense as a whole in this game. Uh, but I’ll give him a quick shout out as an honorable mention um, as well. But I’m not putting him up for, you know, player of the game or anything like that. Let me ask y’all something because I I wanted to get into this when we were talking about the defense, but it kind of slipped my mind. Can you use hashtag Dylan was right first? Yeah, right. Which you gonna mute me? Never mind. You do that or Dylan was right. All right. He see sometimes he he I forgot he really will do it. You got to know who to call their bluff. All right. But but uh in all seriousness when it comes to Chase Young and the almost sacks and we’re talking about Bris who I think also kind of needs to finish a little bit better at times. But it seems like when Brezie doesn’t finish, there tends to be other people there who do finish. So, it’s kind of like you indirectly made that play as opposed to Young, he doesn’t there’s never anybody else there. It’s so it’s really a highlight on what he didn’t do. But to Young’s inability to finish at the quarterback, how much did you guys feel like that was because Young just struggles in that department versus Drake May’s legs? Because I thought he had really good pocket awareness, really good mobility, and and good timing and feel as well. I think it had I I personally think it had more to do with this is Chase Young’s first game of the season and so I’ll be interested to see if it gets better there. But to your point, like Chase Young struggled with the same thing last year, too. Every every Saints pass rusher somehow struggled with that situation. And so I think that part of it is yeah, quarterbacks are hard to tackle. We think that they’re easy to tackle. They’re not. They’re hard to tackle. Uh but also like I mean there’s a track record here that I think is is is worth not ignoring. Yeah, I I would agree with that. It it’s just uh probably a little bit of both because we we’re talking to Drake May is one of those game changer type quarterbacks. He he can do it all. He has great pocket awareness to get out of the way. But there were, you know, the the big Chase Young almost sack. I was thinking he was that was that was Chase Young. He he missed the sack like over overplayed, over rushed. It was it was a combination of things, but I would think that one was a little bit more on uh Chase Young. Yeah, I’ll be interested to see if second game, third game, like if he gets real comfortable there. Let’s uh get into a couple of these questions. Uh Burtonstein hashd is right. What would the Saints potentially get back on a trade that sent Warner somewhere? Uh probably not a ton, honestly. Uh probably not a ton. I don’t think you’re going to get a lot. You’re probably got a day three something or another. I don’t think you’re getting a second or a third for him because you because you got to think about compensatory selections and how that kind of bases what the what where the market would be and all those other things and and just looking at like his contract level and and everything like he would not be a guy that would yield better than probably a fourth round comp pick signing elsewhere and so I I would say probably a day three pick of some sort. I saw I saw while ago I saw someone earlier I think it was awag in the chat said that Jawad Johnson wasn’t worth a fifth of bourbon. So I’ve never heard that one before but I thought that was a bar. Uh and that leads us well Terry you can look that I want to ask I I want to ask something about what Ross said about Warner’s contract. Um what’s the flexibility with that? not just like in the trade department, but also if at the end of the season, because I think the dissatisfaction is pretty long-term with certain people, the idea of if Stzman pops up and you do just decide to move on from Warner, is is it a favorable contract to move on from at the end of the season? Yeah, I mean, you’re taking on dead money. Um, you’ve already played six games of the year, so that’s already going to have prorated some of the contract out, but that’s a deal that they’ve already restructured. And so because they already restructured him, it would probably be around around 10 million in terms of dead money that you’d be taking on. So trading him right now is not the most advantageous thing. And that’s another reason why um you’re probably not going to get a lot for him too because you’re asking somebody else to take on additional money and all that because they’ve restructured stuff into future years. And so he’s carrying, you know, like different things like a $6.25 million guaranteed salary for next season. And that’s guaranteed base. That’s not even what’s restructured and everything and prorated. And so like that’s part of the reason why it’s it would be a challenging thing to trade Pete Mer because a this is always a thing, right? This player plays poorly, they should trade him. Well, those two things cancel one another out. Um and then secondly, um the contract is not a is not a hyper tradable like a like an easily tradable contract. All right, speaking of uh contracts, tradable contracts, regrettable contracts, uh Ransom Antoine, uh how long will we rely on Jawan Johnson? He is Jared Cook 2.0. Uh that is uh fighting words in New Orleans. Uh but uh you know, I think you’re going to have to rely on him for a while. They did just give him that threeyear $30 million extension or whatever it was um or new contract. It was uh you know a questionable decision, but you know, you always see the vision with Jawan and nothing has changed. He’s still incredibly inconsistent. Uh he has moments where you’re looking like, man, this guy is a tight end one. He’s finally done it. He’s made the made the change and then it looks again like he is a converted wide receiver that wasn’t too great in college and then hasn’t been that great in the NFL. So, it’s you never really know who you’re going to get. Uh, and it’s unfortunate and that’s part of the reason that we were talking uh, so much this offseason about still wanting to draft Tyler Warren. Shout out GM Lance. He was in the building today, so he’s not on the show, but still got to get give him his his props there. That would have been an awesome pick. Tyler Warren looks incredible. And the Saints need another tight end. So, I think tight end is going to be something they look at uh, in the future. Yeah. uh soon the near future even though they did just get the contract uh give that give him that new contract. So I’d say you at least have to rely on him through the end of this year. Um yeah, I would add I feel like he’s been less of the offense recently. Like I just feel like maybe it was the first two weeks it was an extreme reliance on him. It felt like he was almost Spencer Rattler’s favorite target and then the last few weeks it just feels like I know the reliance technically means as the best tight end on the team. I know that’s not exactly how the question or I assume that’s not how the question was being posed, but it does feel like he’s been less of a factor within the offense today. I I had to go check. He had two catches today. I really only remember the one that he had uh that ended up being a fumble, but it just doesn’t feel like you see a lot of them. And I don’t know what that’s about. If it means anything, could just be es and flows. That’s just the part of the Joan Josh experience. There are it’s been for years there are, you know, many weeks where he does look like the quarterback’s best friend, the quarterback’s top target, and then other weeks he completely disappears. Uh it’s just it’s part of the frustration that a lot of people had whenever he was signed to that new contract that paid him to be like a top 15ish or whatever it was tight end in the NFL. I think he’s, you know, probably still around top 15, like 15ish. He has the moments, but also doesn’t, you know, it’s inconsistent. They do need another one, I think, is basic another tight end, but you’re you’re gonna have him for at least this season. Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s tough, too, like when you sign a guy to that contract and then you have, you know, five tight ends on your roster and you’ve got to get at least three of them playing time, at least four of them playing time at this point with the way that they utilize Taesm with the way they although I know Taesm is not technically listed as a tight end anymore, but with the way they utilize him, the way they utilize Marorrow, uh, the way that they utilize Johnson, the way they utilize Stall, like he was their leading receiver for the first few weeks because the other guys weren’t around and everything. And then now all of a sudden the other guys are around and that’s why you’re seeing some of his usage go down and everything. And so I think that they indeed will need to look at the tight end position again this off seasonason, but they’re going to have to do more than just add to it. They’re going to have to do some addition by subtraction to make sure that whoever it is that they bring in that’s going to try to help that position group is actually going to be able to be a core focal point in the offense. Because right now when you’re not able to get these guys in rhythm and all these other things like it it creates what are you going to do? add another one, you know what I mean? Like then what are you going to do? You know, and so it’s going to have to be there are going to have to be a lot of tough decisions made in terms of what who is a part of the future of this team and who’s not a part of the future of this team. Those conversations are going to be tough over the offseason. Yeah. The only thing I And you’re still learning to answer those by the way. You don’t have the answers to that six weeks in. You’re still trying to answer those questions. The only answer that I have is or the only thing I would do is make sure that I’m right here on Wednesday for the next episode of the Saint Squad Show. Thank you for listening. You can check out me, Ross, and Darion on our socials for the latest. We’ll be right back here on Wednesday. We’re going to talk some trades. We’re going to talk more of this game. We’re going to preview the Bears game, uh, Dennis Allen reunion week. Uh, Kre Miller revenge game. Kre, it’s going to be it’s going to be interesting. A lot of a lot of storylines. It’s going to be fun. Until then, be sure to check out Lock on Saints uh with Ross for the latest on all of your news. But until then, uh, you know, see you around. Thanks for listening.

The New Orleans Saints have found a steady quarterback in Spencer Rattler, but still need plenty of work elsewhere to feel good. The defense, in particular, struggled in the loss to the New England Patriots. Our instant reaction to the loss.

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