Paul Pierce on LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Boston Celtics & NBA Legacy
What if you guys were the same age? What if you’ came in cuz you came in 98, LeBron came in 03? If we were the same age, I don’t believe he would have had four championships. He wouldn’t have got you kept him. You kept him for four. He wouldn’t have got those two in Miami. You know, I was at an older age then. A lot of miles and stuff and it was hard for me to keep up with him. I’m looking I’ll be looking at that tape shutter and I’m like like damn, I couldn’t even move. life. All my life. Been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price, want a slice, got to roll a dice. That’s why. All my life I’ve been grinding all my life. All my life been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got to roll a dice. That’s why all my life I’ve been grinding all my life. [Music] Hello. Welcome to another episode of Club Shay. I am your host Shannon Sharp. I’m also the propri of Club Shay. Stopping by for conversation on the drink today is one of the greatest small forwards in NBA history. He’s an NBA legend, an NBA champion, a finals MVP, 10-time all-star, four-time allNBA selection, a member of the very prestigious 75th anniversary team, signifying he’s one of the greatest 75 players in NBA history. NBA scoring champ, NBA three-point contest champ, self-proclaimed best scoreer in NBA history, pure score in NBA history. Pure Hall of Famer. His jersey is retired by two storyried franchises, the Boston Celtics and the Kansas Jay-Hawks. He’s a McDonald’s All-American, Mr. Basketball in the state of California. Government name is Paul Pierce, but you know him as the truth. Here he is. What’s up, Truth? Good to see you, dog. I’m always I I always like when I read off people’s accolades, I’m always I’m anxious to hear when you hear everything that I read off. And it’s not that you deserve that, you earned that. Yeah. When you hear all the things that I read, what’s going through your mind? I’m like I’m like, damn, I ain’t heard it like that in a minute. Like for real. I’m like, man, I I really did left my mark on the game. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? And and it’s come from childhood, you know, coming from here in Englewood and and going through every stage and being one of the top from like high school to college to making it into the league. I mean, it’s I’ve been blessed, man. You know what I’m saying? It’s just a testament, I think, of my hard work, my dedication to everything and and um and it’s showing, you know, based off what you what you read off, right, man. Let’s toast that then. Oh, man. It’s great to have you on, man. For sure. You did break the internet. You said you’re the best pure scoreer in NBA history. I want because when people think of scores, having followed the game as long as I follow, people talk about Kobe, people talk about Jordan, they talk about Kevin Durant, they talk about James Harden. You said you are a better a pure score. What is what is your definition of a pure score? All right. This is this is what I’m going to say because when I said it, I didn’t give enough context to it. Correct. And so like this is I I’ll say it like this. If you just took everybody’s greatest scoring strength or just say their athleticism, let’s just say the athleticism, okay? And put me in that rim with them. That’s how I feel. But Paul, you know, people don’t look at you as being athletic, Paul. You don’t jump high, you don’t rise. That’s why I feel I’m If you take the athleticism out of it, Okay. Okay. Okay. You know what I’m saying? Take the take Jordan’s athleticism out where he can’t just jump over you to score and we just do everything on the floor, right? I feel like my skill level is better than Cob, man. Cob is close. He close with no no. Look, look. You close to him when he close to you because if you ever watch Cove interviews about me, you know, he always talk about my footwork. Yes. And Cove had elite footwork, too. Yeah. And so like Cove without his athleticism was still pretty elite because of that. Cuz his IQ and his footwork. Correct. And there’s not a lot of players I can say that about once I take their athleticism. So if there is anybody, he’s he’s right there. Well, Harden is not the most athletic, but Harden can put the ball in the basket at an elite elite level. Yeah. But listen to this. When you look at how you score, okay, so like say like you look at Harden, one of the greatest scorers, ever had a historic season, but he was all threes and layups and free throws. Yeah. Like no midi. Like he could shoot the midi. But like think about this. I could come off like today’s game. Name me one player that can come off a down screen and hit a jumper, right? They don’t even run. Ain’t nobody tried to hit. Nobody can do that. Like maybe Kevin Durant and Steph Curry. Yes. But like post game, mid-range, off the dribble three. Yeah. Step back, off the pick and roll. We not talking about nothing athletic. Just getting buckets, right? I feel like post game, mid game, elbow three all the way out. I had no offensive weaknesses. Like not one. So when you said that statement, how many how many former or current NBA players call say true man? What you talking about? I mean, they thought I I was on on something, but I’m like I mean, they didn’t they don’t think like how I was thinking and like how am I explaining it now? I think it’ll make more sense when people watch this. You know, when you say, “But even that, take all the top scorers. Take the best thing they do, right? And you can take the best thing I do.” See, the thing about me, you can’t even tell me what’s the best thing I do offensively because I think I do all of them the same. Really well. You know what I’m saying? Like you you could say Curry take his shooting ability away, right? Uh uh Jordan, what his his fate away or whatever. Like you like what do you take away from me? Like I can do like what’s my greatest scoring strength? Nobody can even tell you cuz I did it all well. I’mma push you to the three-point line. I won a three-point championship contest. I won a three-point contest. That ain’t nobody guard you. I mean, I’ve dominated games from the three. Yeah. Like you know what I’m saying? So I say it like that and it’s not a knock on the gray scores because I respect all of them and you know it was a knock on Jordan because I respect Carmelo Kobe and all of them but I’m like I’m right there. Right. You did you did something that you’re the first player to win the three-point competition for from a for Celtic since Lagbert and you beat Steph Curry. That I always tell people that’s the thing. See it’s not just winning the three-point competition. It’s who you beat in order to win the three-point competition. I say, “Hey, Steph Curry was in the content.” They’d be like, “Oh, he was a rookie.” It was still Steph Curry. It was still Steph Curry. It wasn’t Steph Curry. That’s all I need to know. Steph Curry was in the contest cuz in 10 years from now, Steph Curry and I beat him. I don’t know how old he was. I don’t know how old he was. You know what I’m saying? He was there. He was there. That’s a Hey, we ain’t talking Hey, we’re not talking about 10 years. We not talking about No, we talking about He is he the greatest shooter ever? He’s the greatest shooter ever. Well, I beat him. That’s all I’m saying. Kevin Durant responded and said, “You know what?” He said, “I really I really didn’t see any weakness in Paul’s game. I understand where his confidence comes from.” You mentioned, “I ain’t have no holes. I can post you. I can hit the midi. I can shoot the three. I can drive the basketball. I can drive and pull up. You I can go to the Hey, I can put the ball on the floor and get to the rim. You find me. I’m going to the free throw line. Going to make 80 plus% of those.” So, when you look at it, it ain’t really That’s what I’m saying. Like what? Like what can they do that I can’t except jump over somebody, right? You know what I’m saying? Like I got I can shoot the three. I can shoot the pull up. I can shoot all Who’s the greatest scorer? Kevin Durant. I can do everything he can do. He just probably do it at a higher percentage. Oh yeah, he going to shoot at you. Yeah, he going to do it. And that’s the difference when you talk about the scores. The efficiency in which he does the efficiency in which someone does something. That’s what they’re looking at now. That’s what they’re looking at. But if we just talk about just the ability to do that, put the ball in the basket that way, right? Then I’m right there. But like when you doing it at a higher percentage, it looks different like on another level and and that’s what he does. In today’s game, who do you when you watching today’s game, you like, “Okay, I see a little bit of my game in him.” Man, um uh I pro I say Shay Gilas cuz he played below the rim. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? He not just blowing by people. his footwork pivots and stuff and he and he just he just gets gets to the money, right? And so I can say him, Jason Tatum. Okay. Uh I can say that about him. And yeah, I definitely see Tatum more so. Tatum and Jimmy Butler, too. And the reason I see Jimmy Butler because he get overlooked a lot, right? You know what I’m saying? It ain’t all flashy. No. You know what I’m saying? But he he gets the point A to point B and he gets and that’s how it was. And he his mental his mental is like we got the same type of mental type. And people like Flash. Yeah. That’s why Jordan cuz we had never seen a player like Jordan. I mean the tongue hanging out the way he got the ball in hand got it in your face. He elevating over people. You know Connie Hawkins and and and and Dr. J could elevate. But Jordan it was just something about that sweet and this from that point on you find a guy that has that flash. Kobe came with flash. And it’s like now if a guy can score, man, he don’t look like George. He don’t do it like Cole, right? You got to have flash with it. Now, as great as Shay is, I don’t think he gets the appreciation because it’s so it’s fundamental, right? We like things unorthodox. We don’t need We don’t, you know, we come from the era, Shannon, to where, you know, as a culture, we flashy. Yes. You know what I’m saying? Like the way we dress, the way we walk, the way we You hear me before you see me. Yeah. The way you look at my car. That’s how we play sports. So, we gravitate towards that. We do. You know what I’m saying? And that’s why when they start talking about the face of the league, they gravitating toward Anthony Edwards because of his flash. Correct. When Jason Tatum has won the chip now, has been on top of the world and nobody really gave him that when they won it. You know what I’m saying? So, we look at that that that shiny that’s attractive that we gravitate to. And so, and that’s why I never really got a lot of the credit cuz I wasn’t that. I was more of a nononsense player. And that’s why I throw Jimmy Butler in there. He’s like that. I feel like LeBron been the face of the league since his second or third year. You know what I’m saying? We We was calling him the king from day one. You know what I’m saying? I heard about him in high school. NBA Caps was flying to his game. I was in the Allstar game in Philadelphia. I’ll never forget this. We about to We was in the locker room cuz we all congregate both teams, East and West. They was like, “It’s a kid right now that can play in an All-Star game today.” And I was like, “What?” They was saying that in the NBA All-Star locker room while this kid was in high school. That’s when I heard about him. So LeBron had to be what? 18. They was like, he this kid can play in this game today. That’s that’s what they were saying in the locker room. Oh my goodness. This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks. You and I make decisions every day, but on Prize Picks, being right can get you paid. Don’t miss any of the excitement this football season on Prize Picks, where it’s good to be right. It’s officially that time of year. You might lose hope in your team. But don’t worry, that’s why we have prize picks to keep you going. Week six of football was something. Tampa, Indie, they’re legit. I wasn’t wrong when I said I was feeling good about Baker Mayfield, Shake and Bake, and that Tampa squad. I’m all in on Baker. Touchdowns. More, more, more. Prize Pick is simple to play. Just pick more or less on at least two player stats. If you get those picks right, you could cash in. Prize Picks is the only app that offers stacks, meaning you can pick the same player up to three times in the same lineup. Want to pick more on breaker touchdowns, pass yards, rush? Now you can pick all of them in the same lineup only on prize picks. Download the prize pick app today. Use code Shannon to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That’s code Shannon to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup on prize picks. is good to be right. Baron Davis said, “You’re the greatest player to come out of Los Angeles.” Jackie Robinson, John Elway, Lisa Leslie, Oscar De La Hoya, Willie McInness. Uh Sher I mean Sher Miller is not from LA. She’s from a suburb, but she’s from We We going to group her in there. You the best athlete come out of LA? No, not the best athlete. He probably meant more like basketball player, but I wouldn’t even I wouldn’t give myself best basketball player. Who you going to get at? I give it to Lisa. Okay. I give it to Lisa Lesie. I’ve always had admiration for her. She from Englewood like Okay. You know what I’m saying? I had honor to see her play in high school when you know the word around town. In Englewood small. Yeah. So like you hear about people when you young you like let me go check out everybody talk about Lisa. She scored 100 points like and at the half man I’m trying points at the half even if you by yourself. Right. Right. She was cold man. I’m tell I got to give flowers to Lisa. Right. You know I looked up to her as a kid watching her at Morningside bringing that we come from the same place. Right. And so, uh, I give I give it to her. Give it to her. I I’ll probably be in the top three or four maybe basketball players. But like athlete, that’s kind of a stretch cuz there’s so many great athletes come out to see cuz so big. Yeah. Yeah. What’s your fondest memories of growing up in Englewood? What did What did five sevenyear-old 10year-old 12y old Paul Pierce, what did he want to be? What growing up and uh and running around Inglewood? What did you want to be? Man, I think as a as a young black kid growing up and like so I’mma tell you this Shan I was born in East Oakland, okay? You know, and then I moved to LA when I was like 9 years old, okay? So like everybody dream as a kid is just like to be in sports or rap, you know, you know, that’s just what it was in the black community, you know, we didn’t feel like we can be doctors or the Huxaboo, even though we watch that, you know, we just felt like that was the only way out the ghetto. Mh. And so my dream was always to be in the NBA or or or professional sports because all our heroes was that. Yes. You know, unless you rap, you know, cuz I’m looking at other black kids and black successful people wrapped sports. Correct. You know, so my dream was always to be uh in the NBA, man. It was like it was it was all or nothing. You know what I’m saying? And I and I was a pretty smart kid, you know? went to my classes. I’m not saying if I didn’t make it in hoop that I wouldn’t have been nothing but I would have found a way to do something whether it be sports or just succeed in life because I’m a hustler. I’m a grinder and I’m going to find a way. You going to find a way to figure it out. You just devoted. It’s not that you couldn’t have been better in and and in and your books but the books was about let me do what I need to do to make sure this basketball thing pans out and if that basketball thing don’t pan out then I’ll think about something else. But you got a singular focus and I think you have to. Yeah. Nothing else. I Well, I got a plan B. I got a plan C. I got a plan C. D I got a plan A. If A don’t Hey, after a couple years if A don’t work out, I’ll get to B, C, and D. But right now, it’s all eight, man. And then you don’t realize how hard you really work or like people say it. Yeah. But they don’t do what it takes to actually get to the dream. Yeah. You know, like me when everybody going out, man, I’m telling you, man. Me and my boys, we used to when I was like in college, we would go out to the club and we’ll leave the club and go to the beach and run and go to the sand dunes and run up that hill. We were so obsessed with it. We was like, man, you know what? Ain’t nobody talking about nothing tonight. Let’s go. Let’s go. Let’s go to the gym. Let’s go to the sand dunes. You got to be obsessed with it. My grandfather used to tell me and my brother and I all the time we growing up in rural South Georgia, he say, “Never mistake habit for hard work.” And it took a while for me to understand I had to get older. See, people do things over and over and think they’re working hard. Just cuz you go to the gym every day, that don’t mean you working hard. You doing that out of habit. Yeah, for sure. So, people mistake habit for hard work. And when they don’t get the results, see, you can’t be you can’t complain about the results you didn’t get for the work you didn’t put in. Right. Man, coach messed over me, man. I was spoke I was spoke back. Hey, hey, Paul, wasn’t I better than you in the eighth grade? Paul, wasn’t that better than you? He sure was. Yeah, you was, dog. But you you you chose complacent. Exa. Exactly. You got complacent. But it’s funny to hear other athletes say it. And if you’ve been a professional athlete, you understand what it takes to get to that level. Yeah. Man, coach just like you. That coach ain’t put no ball in the basket. Coach ain’t catch no passes. See, those people is excuse makers. Yes. You know what I’m saying? Like whenever my mom was like, you know, she always told me like, “Listen, dog, you going to forge your own path and don’t don’t get discouraged, but you got to put in the work.” But like, don’t make excuses for this [ __ ] Yeah. Like you you It’s on you. If something happens, it’s on you. Correct. Don’t stop blaming everybody else cuz you going to spend the rest of their life blaming everybody else for your failures. Yes. I blame me for every time I mess up something. That’s the only person that And then I can get over it better. Yes. So it’s easy. But you grew up in o you started your first nine years was in Oakland. Then you come to Inglewood. The gang culture was heavily in both areas. How did you not succumb to that? Man, that’s a that’s a story we don’t document enough. Like I think there needs to be like a documentary on the way sports and gang culture came up especially for like inner city kids. It kind of went hand in hand. Yeah. You know, because you grow up with guys and once you start getting older, you start forging your path, but y’all still live in the same. We still cool. And so it’s like you can easily get caught up cuz I seen guys that was great at basketball, but they were still in the streets, you know, and and that comes from like I think having like the right people around you, the right friends, you know, and the right parents. I saw my mom struggle. I was I come from a single parent home, okay? And I never met my father, you know, uh, to this day. Well, I I seen pictures of us when I was little. I don’t remember. You don’t really remember it though. No, like I was like three or four. Okay. But I don’t have a memory of them. And so, you know, the one thing I always preach like don’t be a follower, you know, cuz I think that’s what that’s what, you know, the gangs is all about just following each other, you know, or wanting to be I’ve heard people say it’s the only family I know. is the only family I had. They made me feel like I was a part of something. And that’s what family, you know, you’re supposed to feel the love. And I never felt love at home, but I felt love from this group. But like, if this is love, then why are y’all beating my ass like to get on? If this is love, why you asking me to put my life on the line and have dangerous acts, right? You know, I’m getting in the car and there’s a driveby, I can go to jail, right? You know, I’ve been caught in one of them cars, Shan. Man, I’ve been caught one of them cars and I looked at my my life flashed between my eyes and I never got in that car again. I didn’t know it was gonna happen, right? But I was just like, I can’t put myself in this situation no more. You know what I’m saying? Because I see a lot of my young friends get killed. I seen a lot of my young friends like it’s it’s it’s crazy like as a kid you don’t really think about it cuz we so used to it growing up in like like it’s traumatizing now. Like when you think about it like what could have been or what could have been lost. But we we taught to be tough when I just lost my my friend I was with at the movies yesterday. I went to like three funerals in high school. That’s not that’s not normal, right? No. Absolutely not. You know what I’m saying? But we looked at it as like, man, deal with it, right? You know, this is what happens, you know, like today, you know, you going to have to see or see somebody and talk about it whereas like you got to deal with it. But I’m like, man, just don’t stay out stay from this area. Watch, you know, watch. And then that’s not normal the mindset cuz like my mindset was like man I just want to make it to 21. Yes. Wow. You know like damn what you want to be when you grow up man I want to just be 21. 21 because you know the statistics was most young black kids before the age of 21 would be dead or in jail. Correct. And you hear that all the time growing up. And I was just like get to 21. Paul, was there ever a situation I remember where like when I was in college and then I got to the league, I had guys that I went to high school with. I knew what they were doing, but they would never put me in harm’s way. I would be somewhere. I was like, “Hey man, I’m headed back downtown. Anybody want to ride with me?” They like, “Nah, Sharp, I got that stuff on me. I ain’t going to cuz I ain’t going to even put you in harm’s way. You get stopped, they already know I’m dirty. Now, if they ain’t going to talk about me, they going to talk about Sharp’s homeboy in the NFL, so forth and so on.” Was it a sit? Because it used to be like that. Guys would not let guys, bro, you got some, man, get your ass out of here. You got stuff going on for you. Get the hell around here. Yeah, that’s that’s what gang culture once you started getting good in the neighborhood. That’s the thing about the gang culture and sports. They started rallying around that. So, they was just like, “Nah, you can’t come over here today, right?” Or, “Nah, we got to make sure you get home because if anybody going to make it in a hood, we going to make sure you make it.” Yes. You know, and that’s the story don’t get talked about. You know what? We going to go to the games. Ain’t nobody going to do nothing. They was like your your your security, you know. Security way back then. Yeah. Security way back then. Like don’t mess with P. You know he going to make it out, right? You know, cuz if he make it out, we feel like we all made it. We do. And that’s that that was the culture. And that’s what it was. I did have that. You know, it’ be times like, you know, I’m over there, they they smoking weed and everything like, “Man, you got to go home, man. You know, get go home. Get home.” I’m just outside around the corner, but this is what I live around. You know, they all standing outside, man. Go home, man. Get ready. get get you go go go to the gym or go shoot some hoops, right? Like, all right, get out of here. Bet. You know what I’m saying? Is it true that you got cut from your uh high school basketball team as a freshman and a sophomore? Sophomore? Yeah. I got demoted. Like, so so you tried out for bar so they put you on JV? Yeah. Yeah. But then he brought me back up. Uh he brought me back up because look, we was missing some players. He brought me back up cuz we was missing some players. I think we only had like seven players for this tournament. Damn. You know what I’m saying? Cuz over Christmas break, right? It was going everywhere. So I was there. So he had no choice but to play and so I started ball. I took advantage of over opportunity. Yeah. You know, and that’s when people got to realize when your window is there, you got to seize it. That was my window, right? Cuz like maybe I wouldn’t have gained the confidence I gained if I didn’t take advantage of my window. And from that point on, it just my confidence grew. Yeah. I was the youngest on the team. And then it was just like, man, you know what? we going to keep him up on varsity and he going to start the rest of the year. Wow. Like the last 16 games started. And from that point on, that was it. I started gaining confidence. I was getting stronger and I was just like, man, I can be good. So now I’m like, shoot, I’m I’m I’m in the gym. Like I’m getting better. I’m start I’m growing into my my little grown man phase now. I’m just like, “Oo, okay.” Cuz you know when you get that confidence and you just see confidence is everything is everything. When you start seeing shots go in and you getting better and you growing and you like oh man I can do it and then I got the people around me saying man you can you can do it. You like I don’t know who job I took but he ain’t getting it back. Ain’t no coming back from this. Ain’t no coming back. You might as well stay on Christmas break, bro. Yep. Yeah. Ain’t no coming back from this. Backtrack. The reason why you moved to LA. Did you burn the house down? I did have a situation like that, man. What you mean the situation, man? I was a kid and and you know, man, this is something like a lot of people don’t know this story and thank God social media wasn’t out because I was uh I was playing with matches. Yeah. As a like eight-year-old just we had a little small two-bedroom house and three boys in it. And I was playing with I’ll never forget it either. I’m whitening up the quilt, blowing it out like you know we call it quilts then. We don’t have a quilt. Kids don’t know about that. the quilt that was handmade. So, I’m blowing it out, seeing how matches worked and it lit it and it said and I looked and I and it was so out of control in my mama bedroom. I ran out and sat on the couch. You ain’t tell nobody say nothing. Didn’t say nothing. Next thing you know, it’s smoke and next thing you know, man, we we man, I’m in front of the house. The whole neighborhood outside, fire trucks. Did you tell them what happened? Yeah, eventually after I got my ass whooped a lot, man. They beat it out. Yeah. You know, and that’s why I’m so proud that I made it that I was able to reward my mom, right, with a house when I got to the league and stuff. This is the house I burn. Mama, this for the one I burned down, man. This is true story, man. I got relatives to this day that’ll tell you this story, man. I’m telling you. It’s like And then, so as a kid, when I get back to the neighborhood a year later, we moved back in the house. So, I guess a year later, we moved back in the house. I’m going around the neighborhood. They like arson. The older kids is calling me arsonist. I don’t even know what that is. I have no clue what an arsonist is at the age of eight. You know what I’m saying? So, I’m like, why are they calling me that? You know what I’m saying? I was like, damn. And then later I found out, oh, you you know, you you set fires. You set fires, man. You didn’t get that Smokeoky American PSA. I know. Don’t play with badges, man. Things happen for a reason, you know. Did you ever try Do you ever try football? Yeah, I was good at football. You was good at football. What position you play? I was I was a quarterback and then I played DN also. I started in football and baseball like Damn. But I broke my leg. I was playing uh with older kids. So I was like eight, nine years old playing with like 13, 14 year olds cuz I was big kid. Broke my leg and then I broke my leg again when I turned 12. Okay. So, I broke my leg twice before I was even even a teenager. Damn. And so, mom is like, “You’re going to stunt your growth. You can’t play football.” Yeah. They thought you was going to break your growth. Yeah. That’s that’s the stories we got told. Don’t lift weights and don’t you broke some, you can’t play no more. But I was originally football and baseball before I even thought about basketball. Right. So, so high school, you you turn it out, you go to the McDonald’s All-American game. Yeah. Um, and you was recently named one of the 35 greatest McDonald’s All-American players in the history of the game. So, what was it like? Okay, you finish up your senior year, you get to call Paul, uh, you’re a McDonald’s All-American. Obviously, if you play basketball, there’s no higher honor for a high school basketball player. You Mr. Basketball in the state of California and you get to invite McDonald’s All-America. That was everything because I remember my sophomore year I told everybody I want to be in that that game. I remember watching Jason Kid in that game when I was I said I’m I’mma play in that game. I’m telling one of my best friends and he was like man shut up you know get out of here. I said watch I’mma play in that game. That’s when my kind started growing. And so when I got that invitation I was like man this is it. This is the top of the top. Yes. You know what I’m saying? And then I got KG there cuz the summer before me and KG played together. AU. He stayed at my house. Uh, so me and KG history go way back. That expla That explains it now cuz I was wondering I said, “Well, damn, how they I mean they didn’t come out together and then to research it.” I was like, “Okay, they was in the McDonald’s All-American game together.” I didn’t know the AA story though. How many people know that AA story? It’s it’s it’s it’s out there. They So, our high our AU coach flew Kevin out to LA this summer, our 11th grade going to 12th grade year. He was like, “I got this kid, Paul Pierce.” Cuz then you have to read about cats. Yeah. You didn’t know. Yeah. It was no internet. He saw a picture. He couldn’t see. So he flew him out. He actually stayed at my place. Okay. For for a whole week, right? And we practice at Inglewood High School and we drove out to Vegas and we played in the tournament, won the tournament. And so that year, KG was in South Carolina, was going to move. He was getting out of South Carolina cuz he was dealing with some issues out there. So I was trying to get him to move out to Inglewood. You can stay with me. And so he was feeling either coming out to Inglewood or going to Chicago, right? wind up going to Chicago and and you know the rest is history. Left out of high school and all that, but that’s when we started our relationship the summer before. Okay. I’m looking at that game. KG, Vince Carter, Stefon Malbury. Um you’re like, “Okay, cuz Vince won the MVP.” That who won the All-Star game MVP? KG won. KG won. Vince won the dunk contest. Yeah, he he embarrassed me in that. What you tr I know. And you know what? You know what Katie said? I was so excited to be in the McDonald’s game. I participated in the three-point boy contest, the dunk contest. I just said, “Sign me up.” I knew I had no business being in that, but I was just like, “Sign me up.” You missed six dunks. I know. And then I seen Vince for the first time, and I was just like, “Whoa.” Yeah. He going to win. He going to win a lot of these for years to come. He could have won the NBA dunk contest as a senior in high school cuz he was I mean you see old footage and his head is at the rim in high school. Man, that’s what I’m saying. I’m sorry. I just was happy to be there and I wanted to participate. I’m trying to help me understand this. A kid from California, Inglewood, California. How the hell you end up in Lawrence, Kansas? Only Darthothy wanted to go back home, right? Who Kansas? No beaches. Yep. Ain’t a whole lot of people that look like you out there. Not at all. And you like, “Yeah, this where I need to go.” 100%. Hey, that Listen, when you grow up in the streets out there and you seeing what’s going on, I need to get away. You trying to get a far away? Far away from this. And I’m not coming back. I’m not I’m going to come back from a week to see my mama, right? You know what is crazy? I took my visit. You said LA. You know, you know, you take your visit party. It’s fun. It’s fun. Cal Arizona. It’s fun. Fun. When I went to Kansas, it was nothing going on. I was like, “This is where I need to be.” Focused, locked in. I I ain’t got to worry about it. Because see, if you in UCLA and USC, every weekend you going to be home. They going to be like, “Hey, I want to go to the game. I want to go back into the neighborhood.” I came out there, I was like, you know what? This is just nothing going on out here. They got a long john silvers to eat. I’m cool with that. You know, I’m coming here, right? And and that was it. Cuz I I was I was mature. I knew what I needed, you know, and I knew I was like, man, I’m I’m not coming back to the wood cuz it’s too much too much going on. Yeah. When you look at Kansas players, where does Paul Pri rank himself? You got Will Chamberlain, you got uh Embiid, you got Wiggins, you got Danny Manning. I mean, you got some great Kansas Jay-Hawk players. I put myself in the top five. I’m going say Wil is the greatest player to ever come out of Kansas. And then, you know, it’s everything’s up for debate. You know, Embiid was the number one pick. Wiggins was the number one pick, you know, but if we just talk about your Kansas career. Yeah. You know, you got to put like Danny Manning got Manning. Danny probably second. Yeah. I remember Danny in the miracle. Yeah. Danny. Ain’t no way he’s supposed to They supposed to win a national championship. You got to put Danny and I never went to a final four. I was a first team all-American and I had some good stati stat statistics but you know it’s guys that really had great college career. Mario Chmer’s in there for the national championship most outstanding player Morris twins Thomas Robinson he was national player of the year I think. So we had some great players come out but I put myself in the top five because of what I was able to accomplish from college all the way through. You look at at the end of the story Oh wait you number two. behind will. Yeah, I’ll probably number two. You be number two behind and that ain’t a bad that a bad that ain’t bad. So now you come out, you have a great college career, you come out in your draft, Vince Carter, you got Dirk Ninsky, you got Mike Baby, Antoine Jameson, Jason Williams, Larry Hughes. So if they were to reddraft, say, you know what, we know we know now and they reddraft, where you going in the draft? I’ll probably go number two. It’ll probably be Durk. Yeah. And then me. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that uh you reddraft then you probably go Vince. Yeah. Durk, me, Vince, then uh it’s it’s it’s close from then. I mean, you could say Mike Bby or Antoine Jameson, something like that. Uh yeah, that but that’ll be the top three right there. Do you believe you should have won rookie of the year? Man, as much as I I I was after the first month, I was I went a one, but then I sprained my ankle and let me tell you this story, Sher. I was in my my boy was living with me my rookie year. He came out from the wood and he was like, “Oh, I sprained my ankle.” He came in like, “Did you see what Vince did last night?” And I was like, “Man, I don’t care what Vince did like cuz we compete for rookie of the year.” And I’m like, “Damn, you know what? He is killing. He’s showing me all these dunks.” So I I couldn’t I couldn’t deny what Vince was doing his rookie year, man. He was going crazy. I mean, he was dunking on everybody, man. He got Zo, he got Rick Smith, he got everybody as a rookie, too. I mean, he just that was his coming out party and I was just like, I couldn’t deny that. So, I I I deserve second because I missed cuz I was hurt and I was if I didn’t get hurt, I we it’ been a closer race. Closer race. But Vince deserved that. As a rookie, what are some of the things? Because I I I think every league has what rookies have to go through. Some people call it hazing or initiation. You got to bring donuts or you got to get chicken or or burgers for the flight. You know what I’m saying? It’s a it’s a a ritual. It’s an initiation that, you know, I’m like, man, I can’t wait to my I can’t I was like, I will make the team next year just cuz I want somebody to bring me is that I got to bring everybody else. That that’s the sole reason. So, what as a rookie, what do they have you doing? Man sh you know you had to bring that care package to the vets and make sure to put it in the bag about to go on the road. You know what that care package was? You know you going to have a little bit of everything. Yeah. You wasn’t afraid like Hold on man. Y’all put y’all putting me at risk. Yeah. Come on man. Come on now. risk. Hey, you you you playing at the highest level. You put that care that care package. Hey, put that in the luggage when we get to the airplane. Damn. And then I got to take the package back when we land. Whatever’s left of the package and dispose of it. Yeah. So, you get this, you get drafted, you going to the Boston Celtics. What What were you think like, damn, where did you want to go? Did you work out for the Celtics? I didn’t work out for the damn that’s what I’m saying. I was projected to go number two, okay, in the draft. So, the number one pick was the Clippers at the time and number two was Vancouver. Vancouver had a need for my position, but the Clippers did too, right? And so, I asked Elgen Bailey, “Let me work out again cuz I wouldn’t have mind came home to the Clippers my first year, right?” Uh, who took Candy? They took Oliver Candy. And then number two was Mike Bby. Three was Ray from Lef France. Then it was like Antoine Jameson, Vince Carter. And you know the crazy part when they picked Jason Williams, White Chocolate. Yeah. I didn’t even know who that was at the time. He went to sack, right? Yes. But I didn’t even know who he was because apparently he went to I didn’t even know what college he went to. Apparently he got suspended for something. Didn’t play, right? And I was just like I was sitting there like, who is that? Right. you know, and then then when Boston called me my name, I was just like I didn’t even work out for them, you know. And then like a good friend of mine, Chanty Bilups, I remember talking to him while he was in Boston, right? And he was telling me how I like I was like how the league is, man. You know, this is before I got drafted, right? And he was like, man, you know, training camp was tough, dog. I got Rick Patino. He had like five or six of us on IVs. And I was like, what? Like we running like y’all run like that in the league? He was like, “Yeah.” So when he called when he called my name Boston, that’s all that’s going through. That’s all we going through. Yeah. He going to kill us. Oh man, he going to kill us. We going to be on the Ivy’s. So I’m going hard this summer. Like I ain’t about to be on no Ivy. [ __ ] running these sands. But it was just it was a shock truthfully. I didn’t know whether to smile. I I was smiling, but I wasn’t happy because you understand Boston was one of the premier franchises in basketball. I mean, at the time you talking about Knicks, you talking about the Lakers, you talking about the Celtics and the Bulls at the time because Jordan had reinvigorated everybody was talking about the Bulls. So, you go into a storyried a historically great franchise, although they had been on some lean years. Did you look at like, man, man, the history, it’s hard to say an NBA team got more history than the Boston Celtics. all those championships, all those great those great names and those jersey retired. You see six and 32 and 34, I mean, excuse me, 33 and you got double zero and you got Koozie number retired and you know all the um the KC and Sam Jones. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s crazy. When I first got there, my one of the first persons I met was Red Arback, you know, cuz he throw a charity golf tournament before the season. So, I had a chance to sit with him. He was like, “Paul, come here.” And I looked and I didn’t think he was talking to me. I didn’t even think he knew who I was, right? So, I had a chance to sit down with him. But then it was such a blessing, Shannon, because think about this. I’m a kid from Los Angeles area, right? Going to the Boston Celtics. I’m really going to find out who my friends are. You know what I’m saying? Absolutely. You know, let me see who rocking with me now, right? You know, cuz we as LA, as a black kid, we hated Boston. Hated Boston. We hated Boston. I’m a Lakers fan and you know it was that whole magic bird white that was a thing. Absolutely. You know what I’m saying? So it was just like let me see who the homies is now, man. But if they roll with you. Yeah. But like I had a homie I invited to the game. We play the Lakers, man. Heard he wore the whole Laker uniform. So me in the back, you know, my mom my mom didn’t play that. Yeah. She was like, “Who’s this?” Right? He with you. You can’t be We ain’t doing that. Cuz my mama whole family going to have my jersey off. You know, my section he standing next to all the Sel jersey with a Laker jersey on. Yeah. With a Lakers jersey on. He We This is all like, come on. I know we all from LA, but it’s time to switch up y’all. See who you put that on when you go back out there. Yeah. That’s cool. Yeah. But like, damn. You know, so I found out who the real homies was fast. You get that first check. Obviously, all the things that you like, I’m going to the NBA. I’m going to be a professional athlete. And all the things that you wanted to be able to accomplish and you always wanted to do, now you have that opportunity. When you got that first million dollars, what’s going through your mind, man? It took a while to get that million. Sh people think cuz think look, let me tell you this. When I got drafted number 10, my check for the year was a million, right? We had a lockout. So cut that in half. So then 500,000, right? Taxes. Cut that in half. Yeah. So really all I had was about like 200. The age you get is 3 to 5%. Yep. So knock that down. I needed me a apartment to rent, right? And probably what 2500 3,000 about 3,000 at the time in LA too and Boston. Okay. So I just had like you whip. You gotta have you gotta get around whimp man when I tell you I had about like my first year I probably had about like 10,000 left. You was a Were you able to get mom anything? Man, mom’s I hardly gave her anything that first I had to sign cards, you know, and I you know and I retired and I was like it’s going to come in my but man I I I didn’t even get her a house my first year. Wow. Wow. You know, I didn’t I I don’t think I got her house till like my third year, right? So, you know, when you got that first big check, though, when you looked at it, you you you uh you refine you read up and you like, damn, man, this more money. I mean, when I was dreaming, I don’t know if the money I don’t know if the check was this big even in my dreams, but now this is a reality, right? That’s when mom’s got that house. Go ahead, mom. We driving around Beverly Hills. We up in the hills, you know? So, I got her something nice. That was a It was just so special for me to just see the look on her face, you know. And you know, my mom old school, I got her a Cadillac, right? You know, she wasn’t the new it was the new version of the Cadillac, though. You know, cuz we we we always dream like, I my mom, I want that Cadillac. That was the dog. That was like, you know, in the black neighborhood, the Cadillac was like a Benz today. Absolutely. You know what I’m saying? A Cadillac was that thing. Blacks damn near Cadillac cuz that’s what all blacks got. They didn’t ain’t get no Mercedes Benz or BMW. They wanted a Caddy. Caddy all crown. They wanted that that uh uh that L dog, right? That coupe Deville. That coupe Deville, right? That Clette Coupe, man. That they want that long boy. But it was the new body style at the time when around the late, you know, early 2000s cuz we grew up looking at that long thing with the couch seats. Yeah. But I got her a Cadillac and she was happy to go, you know, she just wanted to get her good outfits to go to church in and her Cadillac, get her nice hat and just to have mom looking like that in church was like, man, everything. You pulling there with a hat on and that new the new caddy with the hat on just to go in there with her sitting next to her. That was everything for her. Paul, we was talking a little bit this off off camera about guys making so much money and do through maybe it’s a bad investment, maybe it’s a divorce, maybe it’s even if it’s kids, you had kids in the marriage and you’re not divorced. If you have kids outside the marriage, you can imagine what it costs. I mean, private schools and and you know, all that other stuff, insurance, no things like that. Yeah. and guys going belly up and now it happens in a lot of sports but you know football players even though they’re making great money now their money is not guaranteed basketball players you see a h 100red million they’re going to get $100 million minus the taxes 200 million they’re going to get 200 million minus the taxes 300 you see I think Luca can be the first guy to make 400 million in 28 having been around and seen guys like how does a guy lose that kind of money man I think people don’t understand Like cuz when people see you saying like it like like today the number is so ridiculously high it’s it’s be hard to lose that. Yeah. So like my maximum contract my first contract was 80 million, right? So let’s cut that in half. That’s 40 40 minus the 3 to 5% for the agent agent fee. Boom. You talk about that. Then you talk about your you want to get a house. Yeah. Now I got a big deal. I want to get a house now. So I spent like four or five million on a house. Yes. State taxes on that. Now I got, you know, the family on payroll. Yeah. Boom. So now that’s about another like half a million, which every half a million costes you a million. Million. And so it can go faster than you think. Yeah. You know, and then everybody ain’t making my money, right? You know, majority of the league is making lower than that. But here’s the problem that they run into. Half the league ain’t making your money, but that same half spending your money. Now you want Now, Yep. Now I want to go stunt at the club, have nice meals. yet. I want to I want to go to the club. Get a bottle. Get that bottle service. 5,000 every time I go out to the club. Oh, man. Man. All right. Now, shoot. Oh, damn. I got Let me take care of this girl over here. Let me throw her 2,000 a month on rent. This my girl, you know, I don’t want her to live with me, but I’ll make sure she got her apartment, you know, that that get her get her nice little car, get her a little car to get around. That’s my girl, you know. I got her a little something. That’s my girl, you know. I don’t want her, you know. So, that’s What about the homies? You got you flying the homies out. You got three or four homies. You bring them out. They first class. They stayed at If they not stay with you, they stayed at the hotel. You paying for everything. Paying for everything. And they got that reflective shine. So that Hey, that’s Paul Pierce, homeboy. Yeah. Hell yeah. That’s me. Then you going to go on at least one trip. One. At least one. You got about four or five of them. Hey, you paying for everything. We’re going to Where we going to stay at? The Reds. Well, what P, what’s your room? Oh, I got the file suite. Right. Right. I’mma get But the rich the regular rooms is 800 a night. Right. Right. And you out there a week your room 2500 a night. Right man. And then you constantly doing that. That add up man. People don’t know if you ain’t got them endorsements. I was fortunate enough to have some endorsements. So I used to use my endorsement. I’m use that to pay for that. Put my NBA money over here. Right. You know what I’m saying? But like for the guys who ain’t making max deals, man, you look up after five, six years, you look up and like, man, I’m check to check. Yeah, that happens a lot. It does. And is gambling cuz you know, we we’re very competitive. We competitive everything, man. Let’s shoot Let’s shoot for 5,000. Let’s shoot for 10,000. Let’s play Tunk. Let’s play Beray. Let’s play Guts. You know, the ain’t nothing for free. The black culture is is built around gambling. And when you got money and you successful. Yeah. You see it everywhere with us. You know, you see it in the music videos shooting dice. You you see the car games on the planes. Uh you know, guys want to be, you know, they want to impress their girls. High roll, go to, you know, and I was a victim of that. I was going gambling, you know, going you did casino gambling. Yeah, I was going to the casinos and stuff and doing all that. But you playing blackjack. I play blackjack. I play blackjack. Uh and it’s easy when the money rolling in. You know what I’m saying? But I I I had a lot of examples around me, right, to say like, you know what, P, you better slow down, right? Like they losing money. You you can end up like this. You know, uh my teammate, you know, Antoine Walker was a victim, right, of of gambling. And and he told a story that, you know, hey, the story, I’m bringing all my homeboys. I’m taking five, 10 homeboys with me. I’m gambling 5, 10, 15,000 a hand. Yeah. Yeah. I I ain’t never did that. Nobody. My limit is like 300 ahead. That’s a lot. But see what happens is you get around somebody that got that kind of money and they playing like that, you want to impress people. Yeah, I seen that. No, I I see now that I’m watching that that I like to watch. Like I didn’t had a chance to watch, you know, Michael Jordan and and Charles Barkley and them and I was like, yeah, see Mike See, Mike be trying to he know he want to make he want to bet enough to make you uncomfortable. Bro, I’m not going to lose my house fooling with you trying to impress you. Uhuh. Nah. Hell no. You know, and now you know what a lot of guys get caught up with taking the credit lines. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? So, I don’t take the credit line. So, I bring Once you got what? Once you got what I came with, Yeah. I’m good. I’m good. That’s it. This is this and this entertainment. You took this. All right. I’m I’m good. In Boston, you had a situation. You got stabbed. um neck, back, uh you got hit over the head. Had you ever had any issues in Boston before that incident? I never had no issues before that. You know, I was in my third year. Yes. Uh I have I have had no problems in the streets, right, with nobody. I really believe that it was an isolated incident. Okay. And you know, I think egos got involved in it. Yes. Okay. You know what I’m saying? And it shouldn’t have happened, you know, as a situation to where I tell the story. You know, we played pool, we ended up at the pool game, went over to the club. You know, it happened so fast, Shannon. It was so crazy cuz we literally just got there. It was me, the uh Tony Bati, Derek Bati, maybe a few other guys. And it was just like, man, I’m I’m young. I’m I’m going to have a good time. The hunt is there. It’s going to be lit. want to go talk to some girls or whatever. I mean, what? I’m in the league. I mean, am I doing something wrong? No, I’m not doing nothing wrong. I want to meet some girls that’s attractive. I’m, you know, I’m young, successful and, you know, and I get into a situation and it’s it’s still blurry. Like I I like I don’t remember completely because I I was like I had a concussion from it and and everything, but the the the only thing I really remember was three girls and one guy. Mhm. you know, and it was just like a situation where I I I I wasn’t disrespectful, you know. I never want to disrespect somebody that I in a situ in a town where I don’t know. You don’t really know what’s going on. But my fault, where I messed up at was we walk in as a group. Yeah. And I tail off. I don’t go to the section with them, right? I walk this way instead. Yeah. Like when you together, y’all supposed to stick together. got to, you know, and that’s that’s a lesson I heard learned. It was a hard lesson. Yeah. You know, because if something escalated, at least if my guys were there, they could have deescalated it. Correct. And you know, I wouldn’t end up in that situation. And you know, it happened. It was just like I guess it it talk it went from talking to some girls to argument pursuing and then next thing you know, I’m feeling attacked. So I’m just like, it was one guy, it was both, man. It looked like one guy right here. Yeah. But like after it was all said and done, it was like three or four guys and I’m a big dude, right? You know what I’m saying? So you ain’t gonna just take me down, right? And so you know this the reports that came out from the people was like, “Man, if you didn’t fight for your life, you would have been dead.” They was like, “You was fighting, but they was jumping on you and everything, but you were still fighting back and everything.” And you know when three guys with three knives. Wow. You know what I’m saying? It wasn’t just one. It was like three. It was like based on the puncture wounds, it was three different knives. Wow. So they all was boom boom poking you. And I’m just so blessed that like damn. They said if you didn’t have that leather coat on it would have been much worse than what it was. You possibly could have lost your life. Yeah. I had a leather a tough leather avarax jacket. I wish I had a picture of it cuz it was shredded. Right. And then when I came out of all of it, I just remember the end of it. You know, I’m looking at myself like I’m like bloodied up. Boom. I I just remember wiping the blood. I couldn’t It was like profusely bleeding profusely. And then it was just like, “Damn, I need to go to the hospital, you know, cuz this my clothes is soaked in blood.” And fortunately, I made it down the stairs cuz I got pulled into like a black room over here, didn’t go down the stairs, and the hospital was literally one block away. Like literally, I could have walked there, but we drove there, got in, and if man, who knows if I if the hospital wasn’t right there, I couldn’t be sitting here talking to you today. And you know, that that right there really changed my life. It ch did it did it change where you go? Did it change how you move? Did it change how you talk to people? Did it change how you uh assembled? Uh the women, you know, like, okay, you got somebody cuz you got somebody. I don’t want to hear this. I just broke up last me and my man broke up last week or you know I’m getting a divorce but we still together. How did it change the way Paul Pierce interacted moving forward? Man, it just chang like like you said a lot of it. It changed how I went out because after incident I didn’t go out for a couple years. Yeah, I can imagine. It took a couple years for me to step into a club again. You know, it just changed my whole mindset because I didn’t realize how many people it affected. Mhm. You know, I’m sitting in the hospital and I’m seeing stacks of letters and I’m seeing know my mom’s my brothers. Your mom worried to death cuz your mom in the church so she’s a she’s a woman of faith, man. Woman of faith. Pray every day. Like, and I’m just like, damn. I’m looking at how it affected everybody around me. And it was just like, man, I put myself in a situation to where I affected all these people that love me and I was I can’t do that again. Never. I can’t do that again. I I’m like I’m too valuable to the family right now. You know, I done made it this far not to throw it away like this on some on some [ __ ] Yep. You know what I’m saying? I don’t have to go to the club. Like, you know, I came out here to hoop, you know, and I ain’t even signed my deal yet, right? I ain’t even got my big deal. What am I doing? Right. you know, and I know you young, want to have fun and but I but everybody truth I tell guys all the time. I say there are a lot of guys that are excited and happy. Yeah, man. That’s true. That’s sharp, man. Hey, man. How you doing, man? I love the Broncos. I love the Celtics. But there’s another group that feels some type of way because of who you are. Oh, you think you could talk to my lady? Oh, you can man. Your lady choosing me, bro. I I I didn’t say anything. But it’s that way. And so for me, that’s one of the reasons why I was very very uh uh how I moved and I didn’t really go out and I only went out one. There’s one teammate when I was in Denver. If he wasn’t going, I wasn’t going. Right. And that and we always we walked in together. We we never left separate. When he walked in, I walked in. When I walked out, he walked out. Yeah. And I I look and I would tell the guys, you know, a lot of time because a lot of guys do feel this way. uh truth is that they see somebody their football player and they touching somebody. I said, “Bro, don’t do that.” I said, “You got to understand a man gonna fight really, really hard in front of his lady cuz he not going to let you plunk it, right?” I said, “And you don’t know what he got on him, so just let that go. Let it go.” Hey, you know, had a situation, man, I had man, I’m about to fight my own teammate. Yeah. He was like, he was touching the girl. He’s like, “Oh, you got some on your back.” “Oh, he with you.” Mhm. I said, “Oh, I brought I said, “No, no, we not going to do that.” Right. But you have to understand, did you ever go back to that club again? No, never again. You know, and if there was some advice that I can give to the young professionals, uh, coming to the NBA or coming to the NFL, whatever sport you play where you at a high level, I would say like, you know, I was on a young team. I should have got with a vet. Yes. You know, right away like, man, let you know, I want to go out with you. I want to kind of see how you how you how you move and everything because I don’t know how to move. I’m still learning how to, you know, make the money and what to do with it when I go out. What? You 21 22? Yeah. I’m 21 22 years old. I don’t know how to move like that yet. I’m not knowing that like maybe I should get a security guard or a table, have them escort me in a certain different way. Yeah. You know, and stay with the group like, you know what I’m saying? So for the young players and the young hoopers or whoever you are a successful black athlete who are in the line like you know get with somebody who been there done that right who’ve been around for a minute though not no four or five year like somebody 10 years in the game but something like that understand that understand like you got to do it like that and talk to them you know so that’s what I would say from that point on did it change like the type of woman that you dated or the type of woman that you was like interested in because you know sometimes you know you like we like what we like, but sometimes what we like get us in trouble. True. That Yeah. But you can’t go to the places where they’re going to be it. They going to be it. You know what I’m saying? I know exactly what you I can’t like I know I like what I like, but if she kick it there, I probably don’t even like her, you know? But if she Because ain’t no first time probably. Yeah. Exactly. And and it’s just like you never know, right? You don’t you you don’t know. And that’s why you need to get with the vet cuz the vet can pull your coattail. Hey, bro. I know she look good, but hey, yeah, she done been around. She done been blah blah blah blah blah so forth and so on. So to not put you in harm’s way cuz you know how guys are. You get with somebody, they going to let you they ain’t going to tell you at first they going to clown you. Yeah. They got they got they got they going to clown you. I’m just telling you how to be real. having been a professional athlete and see young guys come in and see this young lady that has dated several guys on the team and maybe one of the nuggets. I done seen that. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? But I don’t know cuz I I I’m not out there like that. So I don’t know until you bring her around. And then when I see I’m like, “Bro, bro, what what you doing?” Nah, man. I got a good girl. Yeah. No, you don’t. Yeah. But but if but at that point in time, no matter what I think of her or know what she’s done, I got to respect that man’s choice cuz he chose her. Yeah. And I the last thing I want to do is cause friction between he and I. Right. But you can’t let outside interference ruin the locker room. I done seen that, man. For sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. So you got to have that talk, you know, like come on, man. It’ll ruin the locker room if you go that route. you know, and I don’t want to have to break the news to you later, you know, cuz I didn’t seen it happen. But you the the bottom line, you just got to be careful who you with, where you go, areas you in, what time you in and out. So, you know, I never stay to the end. No, no, no, no, no, no. I never stay to the end no more. I’m never going to hear last call. Never. You’re not going to be They not going to be putting the stools on the bar. Yeah. All the lights come on so you can really see everybody before if it you you too late. If you stay too long if they’re doing if they’re saying last call, if they putting the stools on the if the lights come on, you stayed too long, bro. Yep. Yep. But there’s a lesson to be learned and I’m happy that the lesson that I learned that I’m still here, that I can be a game to the to the future and the young gen. I’m not saying not to go out and not have fun. Enjoy it. You know what I’m saying? Because it comes and goes. Yes. But be careful and be smart. Be smart. Yeah. Boston, we hear a lot of different stories. I mean, uh um Mr. Russell, Bill Russell wrote a book about what they did to him. He’s the winningest uh uh uh sports. I mean, 11 championships and 13 seasons and everything that he had done. He had fought for the civil rights. I think it was a 67 summit that he was there and all those guys and he did that. So, and I’ve heard a lot of people come from the outside and say, “Well, Red Sox fan and Boston fans, they yell this and they yell that.” I don’t know if I’ve ever talked to a player that actually played for the Boston team. What is it like playing in Boston? Did you see any of the racism? Did you feel any any tension? I never had a chance to experience that. Okay, Shannon. I I think you know as fans sometime when opposite teams come in you you feel like you feel a certain type of way. You feel a certain type of way. You know Boston is a sports city and it’s hate amongst our fans toward anybody else who ain’t Boston, right? You know what I’m saying? And you might have a guy in there liquored up and you know might get outside himself and and say the nword or something that or whatever. You know it’s probably has happened. It’s never happened to me, right? you know, being that I I was a player there, I was loved there in the city. You know, it’s times I went to the restaurant, got a standing ovation, just like I mean, it’s a real sports town, but like I’ve never felt like the racism and, you know, but you know, you go back in the day, you know, a lot of the Irish migrated to Boston and a lot of them was, you know, racist. And so, I’m sure there was a lot of parts of the city where it’s still like that. I just never experienced, right? And you didn’t go to those parts to try to figure it out if they rac Irish pubs. Right. Right. You know what I’m saying? To where they You’re not going to Charles Town. You’re not salvation to get liquored up and call me a No. How tough was it? You get to the Celtics, you understand the tradition of the Celtics. 60s they won all the time. The 70s they won. The 80s they won. Now you get there and you guys are struggling. How tough was that to deal with? Because like you said, the Boston fans, they’re used to winning championships. They won eight in the 60s and they didn’t want what they won in the 70s and they won what they won in the 80s and now you’re in the 90s and the early 2000s. You guys aren’t winning championships. Yeah. Well, you got understand the the support system is amazing from the former players. Yes. Man, that kept my head up. Just Red Herb coming in town, going to dinner with him like, “Keep your head up.” giving me a cigar. Bill Russell going to dinner with him. You know what I’m saying? Hanging out with Cedric Maxwell. You know they Man be hating. That’s my guy. Bran, you be hating though. BR my man. Yeah, man. He good. He a great dude, man. Man, that’s that’s like my big brother right there. I used to tell him everything. And you know, just having him around just like, man, what do I got to do? You know, I’m talking to Bill, having dinners with him, and just like, man, you just got to stay on the path and everything. And, you know, they kept my my sanity of not wanting to get traded or go somewhere else, you know, just having those guys around. Jojo White. Yeah. Yeah. You know, he lived there. He was instrumental to me just keeping my sanity going through all the losing years. It’s just like the family of the Celtic culture kept everything together. And so, you know, that’s what I try to bring now with this generation. You know, I try to be there at the games and go to practices and and call Jason time and time again, see if they good or, you know, so you know, I try to just carry on what they was able to do for me. That, man, that’s that’s awesome. Did you ever think in those years you got drafted in 98 and then it was a long time before you won that championship. Did you ever think you was going to win a ring troop, man? Cuz you see Kobe like, damn, Kobe and Shaq, man, they winning all damn. And you see the Spurs with Tim Duncan and and and and Manu and Tony Parker, they’re winning, man. I’mma tell you, I didn’t think it was going to happen, Shane. Like this 20067 season, when I broke my foot, uh 30 games in, I believe, and we lost 18 games in a row. Damn. I was just like, damn, we farther off than I thought we was. We we more than one piece away. Yeah. So, I was like, I didn’t think it would happen, you know. So, I’m having meetings with ownership, uh, Danny Doc, like, you know, man, this is the year Kevin Durant coming out. I’m telling you, this dude, we looking at Kevin like, oh, y’all need to y and we got young Perkins, we got young uh, Al Jefferson, young Tony Allen. Them guys was out of my range, you know, for winning. You know, I got to wait for them to develop. in four years I’m going to be on my 10th year or 12th year. I’m going to be like out of my prime or something. So I didn’t think it was going to happen and but that was the that was the crossroads. That was the crossroads thing. It was like a blessings in disguise that I broke my foot that we lost that many games because we was a me we was at least middle of the road team when we healthy. We was like hovering around 500. But when I broke my foot and we was able to get that draft pick that led to Ray and Kevin, it was like a blessing in disguise cuz I was ready to I was ready to go. Wow. Yep. It was cuz you you was you was not good enough to win the championship, but you wasn’t bad enough to lose the tank and get and get and get a top three top four pick. I’m on losing teams and I’m still making the All-Star game. Wow. Like you know I’m every year losing teams and that’s hard to do. Yeah. on a losing team still they like man he in he’s in but we losing and so I was just like man it ain’t going to happen but but that was the crossroads of the summer to where we they supposed to we was favored to get the number one pick the fifth pick I had a watch party for the draft I was like oh I’m thinking like we get Kevin Durant I can stick around cuz this kid gonna turn the franchise around I could see that we didn’t get it I was I thought that was it I thought I was out of Yeah. Then they maneuvered, got Ray. I was like, “Oh, hold on. They just traded for Ray. I’m I know I’m sticking around. You ain’t going to trade for an older player, right? To not have me, right?” So, we must be in rumors. Kevin coming. Y’all, we trying to get Kevin. Oh, man. That’s all I ever wanted. That’s all I ever wanted. You got ticket. You good now. Man, all I ever wanted was just a chance, right? Just give me a chance. You know, like when you look at the great players, like even look at LeBron, he needed Wade and Bosch. Yes. I don’t care how great LeBron was, he ain’t it’s tough to win by yourself. You need other You can win. But winning a championship, win a championship, right? You could you got to have another great player, you know, and so it was a blessing in disguise and, you know, the rest was history. Is it true that you demanded to be traded to the Mavericks? I I actually was in the club that summer and ran into Mark Cuban and Dirt partying. Went to their section and I was like telling my agent I want to go play them because that year Oh, yes. So that year they they was a 50- win team. Yeah. I think they was the number one seed in the West and they lost the first round. Yeah. So I was just like this is perfect. That’s the year they lost to the Warriors, wasn’t it? Yes. So I was like I thought it was lined up. I was like, “Ooh, they primed. They can win it. They need if they get me, right?” Cuz they already really good. Yeah. We can win it. So my mind was like, “Ooh, I’m all dirt need.” So I’m like, I’m trying to line that up. Like, oo, if I can get the Dallas, they already good. I can give them that extra dog they need. But it didn’t work out. And then the Celtics did what they did, right? Is it true that you and Kobe had a bet that who was going to get traded first? Yeah, we did. Damn. How you know about that? Damn, that’s crazy. We was at you. We was at UCLA playing pickup game, right? And and this was the same year. We both garbage. We both in the lottery. We at UCLA. We playing against each other. Then it was like the rounds was over. So, you know, he sit on the sideline. I was like, “Man, we we he was like, “Yeah, I’m trying to get out of there.” I think he was talking about Chicago. Yeah. You almost got dealt in Chicago. I think he was talking. That’s how me was talking cuz we used to play in the summer. He was like, “Man, I’m going to get Yeah. He He’s like, “I’m out of here.” I said, “I’m out of there, too.” And then we was like, I bet I get out of there before you. We was like on the sideline chopping it up like that because we was so bad the year before. And then the crazy part about it that next year we in a championship against each other. Ain’t that crazy? Cuz that’s what they they got pal, right? Yep. Yep. The summer before we both was thought we was out out of there. Yep. Do you believe had they not gotten pow, had you not got Ray and Ticket, you’d have left? Yeah, 100%. 100%. It was it was the marriage would have been over. It it was just too it would have been too frustrating. I wasn’t going to be happy. It was it would have got to the point to where I probably would have forced my way. It it would it would have went boiling over. But when you get ticket, you get Ray. How are you guys able to blend it? Cuz it normally it takes normally it takes time. Yeah. For a team. You guys have never played together. Uh uh uh maybe you played with Ray when he was in Milwaukee. Y’all was in the All-Star game together, but Ticket was always in the West. I know you had a relationship with Ticket when he was at in the McDonald’s All-American game, but you guys have never played together. How was Doc able to mesh you guys? There’s a lot of big personalities now that you got to mesh together. That’s a lot. You got to break into a locker room. Yeah. I’ll tell you one thing, Doc is great at that, man. What Doc first did when they when we first did the press conference, man, we went on a Dougbo ride. Just us three. We went around the city and we was just talking to Doc like how we going to make this work, you know, cuz everybody it was a lot of speculation that I was going to be the a man that I was going to be the egotistical one out of everybody and Paul is he’s going to be selfish. He ain’t going to work with them. It was a lot of a lot of people saying that and I was just like all I wanted was some other team opportunity opportunity. But I I will tell you like Kevin, he was the lead dog in all this, right? You know, to be honest, because Kevin is the most selfless superstar ever in history. Wow. He came in and was just like, Paul, this is your team. I’m just here to help. I was just like, damn. Cuz I was thinking like, man, Kevin’s the man been the MVP. He just was like, P, this is your squad. I just want to help win a championship, man. I ain’t trying to step on no toes. Everybody dropped their egos at the door. But the thing is, we all had previous relationships, whether it was me with Kevin, Kevin with Ray, Kevin with both of us. And that whole summer, we talked on the phone every day. Wow. Call Kevin. Hey, let’s book Ray in. Boom. Man, let’s get to Boston early, man. We going to do this. Man, we was making we was making summer plans to win the championship the summer before. Wow. That’s how we was talking. Say, man, we going to win it together. And then when we went, we going to go to Italy. That’s the conversation we had. We going to go here. I’m telling you, we was already seen it. Yeah. Y’all was already locked in like that, man. We seen it. We was like, man, we going to win this. And of course, everybody, we on the cover of every magazine. I’m talking about people hated that, right? Oh, man. The teams across the league like, they ain’t won nothing yet. Why y’all crowning them? Right. But it just it was like the holy trinity. It just came together right away. So, man, it was just it was crazy. I couldn’t believe when you look back at it now, it do take time to come together. We came right together like day one, we got out the gate like seven and0 like came out like didn’t have no issues. You know what our first issue was? The first round of the playoffs. We like when we went to game seven with the Hawks, that was our first adversity. We had no adversity throughout the whole year. We came out just smacking teams like out the gate. First adversity was in the playoffs. That’s when we started learning more. Game seven, first round, second round, another game seven again versus LeBron. Yeah. Like, man, we like, “Oh, damn.” So, once you guys got past that, you like we’re going to win the championship 100%. Once we got past that young bull, I was like, it was all downhill. But then, but then you think that like you get Detroit, but then you got to run into the bumper. Yeah. That’s why I be telling people it’s hard to win. Yes. It’s hard to win a chip, Shannon. You know this. Yes, for sure. The hardest thing to do is win in professional sports and then win consistently. Yeah. Because you can have a little success and sometimes a little success goes to people head, right? Because the hardest, you know, I remember uh we won uh the first Super Bowl. Mhm. Gary Kubak who was our offensive coordinator, he called me off 84. He said, “You know what? Congratulations.” He congratulated like he said, “You know the hardest thing to do?” He says, “It’s the repeat.” Yeah. I said, “Why you say that, Cool?” He said, “Because everybody thinks they’re the reason why they want.” He said, “The people that cut the grass out there, right? The reason why you want is because look who we cut that grass. The people that craft services that bring the food, it’s them. It’s the people that clean, it’s them. Everybody thinks they’re the reason why.” Yes. Yes. And that’s not it. We saw that with our team, you know, and you seen it like once you win it, people think they can do more. They didn’t do more before. You know what I’m saying? Y like you saw that, huh? I We saw that, too, cuz people wanted more of a roll now. Yes. They went from like, “Nah, I want to No, I want to, you know, I’m I’m making the fries. I want to make the burgers now.” Like, no. No, I don’t want to make no fries. I want to be cashier. I don’t need to be managing the degree popping on me. Right. I want to be and who was that the cashier now? They want to be a manager. Right. Right. Now you like come on man. Absolutely. This is why it worked. This is why the this, you know, this is why this system worked. You was doing that. The super team you guys were people don’t want to say it, but you guys were a super team cuz Ray was a a perennial allstar for sure. Ticket was a perennial all-star and an MVP. You were a perennial allstar. I would I would consider that a super team. Did you consider it a super team at the time? The way we was we was flying in these cities in our hotels. It was packed outside. Felt like it. That’s when I knew we were super. Hey, look. That’s what I knew. I didn’t know at first, but when we landed in certain cities and that crowd be out there in front of that hotel. Yeah, we was super. But you know what? And and what what irks me is that I’m old enough to remember is that seems like fans are okay if a team put a super team together. They’ve always been super teams. What the hell you think the 80 Lakers were? What do you think the 80 CS were? They were super teams. They had B I mean, think about it. Bird is a 50th anniversary team. So is Kevin Kevin McCale and so is Robert Perry. They had Dennis Johnson. Y they had Tiny Archer Ball. Five Hall of Famers. They had uh uh uh Bill Walton. Look at Look at the Lakers. Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Wilts. Yeah. Bob McAdoo. Yeah. I don’t know if y’all noticed anything. All those guys in the Hall of Fame. So, they were a super team. They’ve always been super teams. Go back and look at the 60 Celtics. They had 11 Hall of Famers of 13 guys. Look at the Lakers. So, they’ve always been that. It’s just that guys now have better relationships. They grew up like you and Ke. They play AA ball together. They’re comfortable playing. Well, Bird would have never wanted to play with Magic. Well, Bird didn’t have a relationship since he was 9 10 years old with Magic. Yeah. So, the only time they saw each other maybe was the McDonald’s All-American or once they got to the NBA. Yeah. But I think the problem what people have with the super teams today or or whenever you know Kevin and LeBron is how they came together, right? you know, like ours was manufactured. It wasn’t like, “Hey, Kev, come play with me or Ray.” You know, I it was Danny maneuvering the trades and hopefully things had everybody ain’t got Danny a They had to have the right pieces and all of that. And so I think people kind of frown upon like, you know, Braun going there and Durant going, you know, where he went. But, you know, you got to have other great players to win. You got to. You got to. And I mean, and just think about it. The Lakers won the NBA title and got the number one pick in the draft. So just imagine if y’all didn’t won the title and you get the next year y’all get the number one pick in the draft. They won the They won the NBA title and got James Worthy. How is that fair? Yeah. I don’t know how they was maneuvering back then. Jerry Bust and Red Arback. I don’t know how they was maneuvering. They was they was running the league. Huh? Cuz you know back then you could like declare for the draft and then and go back. Larry Bird declared for the draft and went back. Yeah. So that’s how the Celtics kept it. The Celtics kept his rights. Yeah. Right. So just think about it. You’re like, “But nah, I’m going back to school and they still got your rights, right?” So it was it and back then, you know, they had territorial rights. So you come out, you going to a city that was close by you. There’s a lot of things that that if they were to do that now, people lose their mind. Yeah, there there was some things that there was some chess going on back then for sure, you know, and that’s why the league grew to what it grew into. You said something very interesting. You said it takes more than one great player to win a championship. You see LeBron leave Cleveland and then go to Miami, team up with D. Wade, team up with Bos. But it’s still it took a bad making shots. It took a Mike Miller making shots. It took a real making shots. Can you explain to people that that that watch the game of basketball, love the game of basketball, why is it why and how it’s so difficult to win a championship? because you play I mean all the 82 games and you know a Tuesday night game man I don’t feel like it but somehow you got to summon it up to give it everything that you got. How why is it so difficult to win an NBA title? Because you have to be good and lucky. Like there’s going to be an element of luck involved in every championship run and year. And what I mean by that is health is a thing. Yep. Because if you think about it, like Toronto is not beating Golden State if KD is 100% healthy. Absolutely not. Right. No. And there’s just certain things that happen along the route that it’s just like like if Kawhai misses that shot that bounces off the like Yeah. Just like a luck is a major factor, right? And and health like if you’re one of the league I always say this like Paul who’s going to win the championship. So every year you got about four or five teams that can win it, could realistically win it. So I say, “All right, whatever team is the healthiest at the end will win.” So like look at OKC’s run. They went seven games with Denver. Mhm. Uh the kid strains his hamstring. Uh what’s his name? Gordon. Gordon. Gordon. Gordon. I’m thinking like, man, they pushed him to seven. If he’s healthy, it’s going to be tough. And look at Indiana. Tyresese Hallebertton. How lucky was he? Them shots boom going like there’s a element in all of this. I think he hit like three game winners. Three game winners that win and then they go seven. They go seven Indiana. But he tears his Achilles early in the game. So who you’re right? Who knows who like does OKC beat a healthy Boston team? Mhm. Right. You know who knows? So, I mean, it is what it is and it’s part of the game. So, I always say that luck is an element. I feel like in 2010, if Perkins don’t tear his ACL, we got somebody that we can put on Cassaul to where cuz Gassaul went crazy on us in game seven. Yes. And so, I feel like, man, man, maybe they got lucky, right? You know, so it’s it’s always something, you know. So, I I feel like those are the two big reasons you win or you don’t. being around the game, following the game, you still study the game. Has there been a player ever been as criticized as LeBron James? Never. Like the pressure that was like I told you earlier in this conversation cuz you said when you was in the locker room, you was in the All-Star game in Philly and they said there’s a 17-year-old kid that’s in high school that can play in this game right now. That’s the hype he was getting. And under these conditions with the social media and to be able to live up to it, like when you look at all the great athletes all through time and you know, people will say, “I don’t like LeBron.” That’s not true. I I have much respect for LeBron. Like LeBron, y’all had battles. Like LeBron is the reason I am who I am, right? You know, like I I became a better player playing against him. And and what I will say, there’s nobody in the history of the game that’s been as hype that’s lived up to it and surpassed it and had to carry so much weight on his shoulders politically, athletically, and then be under the microscope to h be a household citizen. Yes. Like he has no blemishes. Yes. He got no margin for error. Like And he has no margin. Think about all our great athletes. Ali had his, you know, Russell went through his magic went through Jordan had his thing with the gambling. Like every Floyd Mayweather had his issues go with the jail. Tyson, all the great great greats at the top went through something. LeBron is 20 something years in and I don’t No blemish. Yeah, that’s incredible to me when cuz I had to really sit back at it like damn you know Cove dealt with his thing in Colorado got past that like he ain’t what he deal with man he been model citizen like even if it’s some speculated rumors it ain’t naturally whatever whatever he deal with behind whatever who who cares but to go through your career how he’s went through it is incredible Man, I tell people all the time, I say, “No matter what you thought he would be, he superseded it.” He became that and more. Ain’t nobody you thought you was like, “Yeah, he good. He really good.” But you ain’t thought this man was going to be no four-time league MVP, no four times finals MVP, would play this many years, be the all because people thought Kareem’s record was going to be untouchable because Bigs because you know big after Kareem got, hey, they went Kareem get the rebound, pass it out, Magic hold that thing up. All right, get on down there. go get a camp and throw it to him. He’s a wing guy. Guys ain’t supposed to play that long, play that well, Pete. True. That ain’t supposed to happen. I don’t care what anybody say. You not supposed to play 23 year 22 years and play at the level the man was an allNBA selection. The man was sixth in MVP voting in year 22 and he’s still regarded as a top 10 player. I’m just trying to think like if I was given the nickname Truth my rookie year and I made one Allstar game, I’ll be getting killed. Like he had the nickname King from day one. From day one. And lived up to it. Yes. You know, think about nobody got their nickname. Only one that got their nickname early was Magic. Yes. That high school and lived up to it. Yes. Like like who had a nickname as a rookie coming in and lived up to it? Like we all got our nicknames. Like Allan Iverson, the answer got his when he became the answer. And the ticket got his when he got that big contract, right? He got a big contract. Like the nicknames didn’t come until you really did something, right? You know, he got his before he actually did something and lived up to it. So that’s crazy right there. those battles that you had with LeBron, you say it helped shape who you became and you knew that you had to go through Cleveland when he was on Cleveland in order to get to where you wanted to go, the destination you had to go through. You had to go through the king. Well, yeah. I mean, I’m not a top 75 player today if I don’t have battles with him and having those type of game sevens, right? And and and and playoff moments against him. I’m I’m not a Hall of Famer if you know I don’t do those things against him and Kobe like so that’s why I say like you know me being able to put on that jacket he was a big part of that right you know you got to you got to go through some real battles with some real players like some to really get that kind of credibility you know yeah I was a a allstar player but you got to have shining moments versus the best you do you know versus the best and when you do that then you get verified. Yeah. And so I needed him and I think he needed me too for sure. Like cuz when I look at it like we was putting him out the playoffs and that critical game six in uh in Boston that he had if he loses that game that changes. Oh yeah. He’s not thought of he’s not thought of in the light that he’s thought of now. Absolutely. after losing the weight, losing in the fashion that they lost the previous year to Dallas and the comeback and the lose in six game and yeah, but it was that game that now it re it rein like okay now we see why people call him that. Now we see why 45 and 15. Nobody expected that. Yeah. But like that was a game where he went into a hostile environment. We win that game. We go back to the finals. Yes. So he went through there. He had to have the mindset where people was like, “He’s not he doesn’t have the killer instinct. He’s not clutch.” It was all these things being said about him. He erased all that in that game. And then in game seven when they beat us in in Miami cuz he had like 30 Well, he had like 30 40 play that game too. So like when you start having games like that, it builds that Yeah. builds that in you now. So like when I start hitting gamewinners, I feel like I hit them all the time. You know what I’m saying? They give Pete, “Hey, let Hey, let’s run this pin down. Let’s run this flare to P. Let P come up off this thing.” So now that Ourm, I felt like it grew. Yeah. Going going through Boston and having that type of game. Wow. You get to your first finals, unfortunately, you got to play your hometown team. You got a team that you grew up thinking about. You saw Magic win all those titles. You saw Cap, Kim, and Worth and all those. You grew up, you understand the tradition of the Los Angeles Lakers, but you also understand the rivalry that is the Los Angeles Lakers and the Boston Celtics. So now like damn, I wouldn’t have it any other way. Boston versus the Lakers, but they got a mofo over there that wear that number. He was he 24 at the time. I think he’s 24. 24. Like man, why could I get somebody else that’s a little easier to get me first? And Shannon, you know this like to win is stressful. It is. It’s like cuz like people don’t take into account I’m not I’m not talking to family members. I’m not I’m like I’m you locked in. I’m so locked in that it’s putting stress on my my wife and kids cuz I don’t want to sleep in the same room now cuz I want to be over here and now I’m I lose a game now. I’m not talking to nobody. Hey, it’s so it’s so stressful and it puts a strain on the people around you. And that’s the part that don’t get talked about enough. Like it’s more than a game. It is. And you got that seven times. See, we in the Super Bowl was one game. Yeah. So my family’s coming, the kids are coming. I go see them for like a 30 minutes that Thursday when they arrive. After that, my mom, everybody said, “Y’all not going to see your dad until after the game. Ain’t nobody going to call me until after the game cuz I’m focused. I don’t need Hey, go to SeaWorld, go to Disneyland, go wherever y’all want to go. Hey, it’s on me, but don’t call me unless it’s an absolute emergency. Somebody going to the hospital. I don’t hear nothing. Just the rise of the rise and fall of the emotions. And I’m like, damn. All right, we beat LeBron. All right, cool. Now we got Cove, King Cole, Mamba. Like, man, it’s like you can’t sleep some night, right? You got to figure out like damn, you know, you up watching tape, you you then you in the hotel thing, this party I’m talking you in the hotel, they might people yelling outside the hotel. Yeah. Like pull the fire alarm. You can’t get no sleep at night. It’s all kind of things that can distract you, dude. It’s it’s like that’s like but I wouldn’t have wanted it no other way, you know, for me as a kid growing up in Englewood to play the Lakers, a team that I grew up a fan of and then now I’m a part of this history of Boston and LA. Like I couldn’t have asked it to be any other way. It was almost story book, right? Like damn, I’m really playing the Lakers in the finals. Like I’m a part be part of this forever forever. Let me let me ask you this because I’ve heard and not just in in in in in in basketball, but I’ve heard this in football, too. I’ve heard guys said that when they won a championship is not what they thought it would be. Like, is this it? When you won the championship, was it everything that you thought it would be? Man, Shannon, it was everything and more. I built my whole life around this. Like it’s just like I don’t know who say stuff like that, but like when I dedicate my life to this. Yes. And for just this one moment, even if it was only for like that night or whatever, I can say this for the rest of my life. It was everything and more. I still feel it. Yeah. When I go to Boston, it’s cheers. When I look up and I see that banner, it’s not going nowhere. It’s over. It’s never it’s everything and I’m when I I when I go to Paris the mill is on us. Yeah. Like it’s everything and more than I thought it was going to be cuz I didn’t know. I mean the feeling is there but when you it’s getting it’s constantly like you still feel it to like it’s been 17 years since I won and it’s still every time I’m in the city it’s still like it still feel like we won it yesterday. It does. You know it does because to be a part of it Denver I was a part of the first one the winter championship in Denver went back to back I went to Baltimore was the first to win there you when you put and that’s why I don’t know how you feel cuz I and I always I like to ask athletes they like man when you lost I said man it broke me I said because I knew how I said things hurt when you put so much into it when you put so much of your time your energy and effort into something and it doesn’t work out. It don’t just have to be sports. It can be a relationship. It can be a business. The more you put something, the more you put into something, the more it hurt when it doesn’t work, right, man. Look here. I still I lost to Jacksonville in 96. I still ain’t got over that. It been 30 years. Yeah. I ain’t got over 2010. Game seven. Damn, we up in the fourth quarter. Like, it’s still because you know what you put into it. You know how many times you ran those dunes. You know how many times that you denied certain things just so you could be the best truth you could possibly be? And when it doesn’t work, man, it’s equivalent to a man being married 20 years and divorcing. You like, damn, I invested all of this time and energy and it didn’t work out. That feeling is not a good feeling. It’s not. And it sticks cuz you feel like you’re a failure cuz what did I what what did I do? What could because now guess what I got to do? I got to play replay it over and over, over and over. What could I have done differently? What should I have done differently? Man, if I have trained, man, if I have trained a little harder, if I have lift lifted a little bit more weight, maybe if I didn’t go out that night, maybe if I have studied a little I mean, all that is the same thing. Same thing. It’s crazy. It’s crazy. I’ll never let it go. You know, to this day, I never watched that game. That game seven we lost. I haven’t I haven’t watched that game that division round playoff. No, I don’t need to see it. I don’t need to see that. I know what happened. Right. Right. People always say you No, I ain’t watching that. I ain’t watching that. I know what happened. Right. Like you said, but in that game, man, hold on. I’m just trying to figure out how you get wheeled off in a wheelchair, P. All right. Look, so the diagnosis is a strain maniscus. That was the diagnosis the next day. Have you ever strained a meniscus? I have. You know, you can still play on that. Yeah. But it hurts. It hurt. It still hurt, you know. And I don’t know. And then your knee is kind of loose. It’s It’s Oh, yeah. Yeah. You don’t have real stability. I mean, maybe y’all can play on it. It’s hard to play on that if you if you a football play all that plastic cut that we got to do. And so when it first happened, it was like a sharp pain. Yeah. So it was going down my leg and I was just like, I ain’t never felt no sharp pain in my knee. Right. And so that’s why I reacted the way I reacted, but I didn’t know the severity of it. Right. I just felt the sharp pain, right? And I knew it was something. So, like doctor’s like, “Oh, hold on. Get away from him.” I’m, you know, I mean, like, damn. Pick them up. Pick them up. Get the wheelchair. I ain’t asked for no wheelchair. I said, “Hey, hold on. Get the wheelchair.” You know, they just brought it out. It just And then they had cameras all on everything, all in the hallway and everything. So, I was just like, man, when I got back to the back, I was like, “All right, hold on, man. Let me let me stand up. Let me see how to put weight on.” I hadn’t put weight on it. Think about it. cuz they carried me. Yeah. And I sat down. Yeah. So, let me see where it’s at. So, I I stood up. I was like, “All right, it ain’t bad. It ain’t that bad. I’m doing this and it’s kind of loose, right? But it ain’t it ain’t I’m weight bearing.” And you know, anything that’s weight bearing, you good. You good? Yeah. You know, cuz you know how sprain ankle feel, it’s hard to put the weight on. Yeah. And any other injury that where it’s in your your legs, it’s hard to put the weight on. So, once I put the weight on it, I was like, “It ain’t as bad. Let me give me a knee brace. It just feel like loose like it’s going to tear any second. Right. Right. Let me just stabilize it and and and let me see how I feel. Right. And it’s the finals, right? I ain’t never been to the finals. And it’s game one. And I don’t know if I’m ever going to come back to the finals if I’m ever coming back. I’m going back out there. Right. Doc was like, “No, there’s no I said, “Man, I can put weight on it.” I just ran out there. He I was supposed to be on the thing. He was supposed to test it, do all this other stuff just to make sure it wasn’t nothing. I ran out of there. Right. I was like, “No, I’m good. Give me the knee brace.” And I just ran out of there. So, it wasn’t for you to go to the bathroom? No. No. I made a joke up on on on the halftime show, man. Come on. Why would I go to the bathroom in the biggest game of my life, right? You know what I’m saying? Why? I mean, but y’all have to go to the bathroom, but if y’all have to go, y’all go. You a I’ve never had to go to the bathroom during the game. Never. Cuz we got to go. We go on the sideline. Yeah. But I ain’t like I ain’t never walked off bench to go to the bathroom. Really? Never. If I have to, it’s going to be at halftime. No, you can’t wait. I ain’t never left the bench to lose the bathroom. Ever. Ever. You end up with dropping 15 points in the third quarter, shooting 70% from the field. People like, man, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know if you really hurt. I I love that. This is going to live forever. Hey, I love that. That’s your Kurt Gibson moment. Kurt Gibson against against the uh the A’s when he hit that home run. That lean over that that stretch out home run. Yeah, I remember that. Oh man, it’s going to be weather. You win it the first year and then you come back, you’re back in the finals and you’re facing the same team and it comes down to a game seven man against the Mamba again. again, man. That’s tough, you know, cuz he talking about we got to play the greatest and he ain’t going to just keep struggling, you feel like, but they was built and Kobe his will and he didn’t have the best game, but he he turned P Gaul into Pal Gasol, right? And and that was because y’all neutralized him. It was pow and then in metal round metal roar piece then he hit that shot when when he hit that shot Paul what went through your mind you know what I couldn’t even be mad cuz I I don’t I didn’t watch the game but I know the play because it’s it’s think about this you got Kobe Bryant iso on the left wing on Ray Allen and this is a crucial possession right so because I think they they’re up one they up one so if we get a stop Yeah. We like cuz Kobe known for icing the game right here. So I’m like all right let me help off of meta. Mhm. Cuz that’s Kobe. Yeah. Like let’s not forget who this is. Like we’ll worry about him later. Right. So when Kobe drove I stepped up to like hell no. We can’t let him beat us cuz he can beat us, right? They going to have to prove that these other guys can beat us. And when he hit the shot it just proved that he had other guys that can beat us, right? So I couldn’t even be mad, you know, that Ron cuz he was struggling from three all series long. So I was just like, he a late contested three then hats off. Couldn’t even be mad because I’m not We can’t let this dude beat. Yes. Anybody but Kobe. Anybody cuz we know he can beat us cuz he’s beaten too many teams. So it was just like damn. And we had to lead most of the game. I think we had the game. I think we led like 90% of the game, right? Like it was unreal. I can’t even. You mentioned game seven. Is it fair that Doc receives criticism for the game sevens that he lost? He’s lost them to the Clippers. He lost uh he you guys had a 3-2 lead in that series cuz they went back for both games and they won game six and game seven. Is it fair that Doc receives the criticism that he receives for losing game seven? No coach in NBA history has lost more game seven. Really? Really? Nope. Oh wow. Remember they uh they lost the really the one that really that when they had Embiid and Harden and they lo I think it was I think they and they lost to the Hawks. Remember they lost to the Hawks. They lost to the Hawks. Yeah. When Ben When Ben Simmons wouldn’t take that shot. Oh, damn. Oh, right. Right. Yes. Yes. And then they had another one I think. Who did they lose to? They might have lost to the Celtics. Uh yeah. The Celtics I think in a game in a game seven. Yeah. A couple years ago. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. But the thing is like I will say this about the NBA and it’s different from football. Like you can have a player carry you to a win. One player is good enough, your best player to say, “Come on, guys. I got this tonight.” You know what I’m saying? You done seen it too many times. I got this tonight. Yeah. We didn’t seen Dirk the Whiskey do it to the Heat. Like, y’all get on my back, right? Like it. And then when you get to the game seven, really coaching is out the window. It’s like they know all our plays. You know, they the scout report the scout this this comes down to your stars. Yes. All game seven comes down to your stars and and point blank period. So it ain’t I can’t put that on Doc. You know, I could put the 31 blown series leads on Doc when he you know, he’s been up 3-1. Yeah, I think he blown like two or three season. Yeah, Clippers and just the Nuggets. He had that with the uh the Magic against the uh the Pistons. Y Trace McGrady. Remember that cuz Tracy was like Tracy was like, “Yeah, I know what it’s like to go to the second round.” Like, I’ll never forget that. I never forget that. That’s on the coach and the player then, but like game seven is on your best players truthfully. Like they got to step up and bring you home. We need some clarification. Mhm. The Ray Allen Ray decides to go to the Heat, right? You KG Rondo. Mhm. Are you got Are you upset that he left or are you upset? Part of you might be upset that he left, but it did it have more to do with where he left and went to? Absolutely. It was absolutely where he went. You got to understand, we’ve been battling on LeBron for the last four or five years. Yeah. So now it’s they’re our rival. Like like not the Heat ain’t our rival. It’s LeBron. He’s our rival. You know what I’m saying? So like, dude, we just played them in the playoffs a year ago. Like you can’t go play with them. So you don’t want him to go help him get a championship? Yeah. No, that ain’t how this work. No, I would have I would have been better off him going to the Lakers. And that’s our biggest run. Damn. I would have been cooler with him doing that. So you so if so if Rail say you know what hey man look I’m leaving you know blah blah blah I’m going to lay I’m going to join Kobe. You cool with that? If we had that conversation and and it was like a conversation. I think the biggest issue Shannon was we didn’t have no conversation with them. Listen we and I tell this story all the time. We we was a brotherhood. when you win and you know our wives are friends and our kids are friends, we doing family stuff, Halloween, Thanksgiving, and for you to abruptly leave without a conversation like hey I’m thinking about you know doing this we built something here like is there something like if there’s an issue with contract maybe there’s something I could talk to Danny about or wick like lean on us first like to us to wake up and hear it right like that’s the issue I And me and him had that conversation. I was like, “Damn, we couldn’t even get a phone call or nothing.” Like, is it something we could have done? Like, we could have maybe talked to Doc if the contract wasn’t to your liking or or or whatnot. You didn’t like your role on the team. Like, something like what is it? You know, maybe we can help. But like to just like get up, leave a house, don’t don’t tell us where you going, then we see where you at. You know, mama mama didn’t like that. You know, I couldn’t do that. Rumor had it that Ray was looking for homes when he while during the Miami series the year before, like before. Is that true? No, this was the rumor that we were playing Miami in the playoffs the year before, right? While we was down there, he was already looking at houses. I mean, Miami is nice. Like, you can’t be in the middle of the series. You already checked out. No, no, I ain’t checked out, but you know, mama want to live in Miami. The weather is nice. I don’t want to live in Boston year round. You already in this series like this some [ __ ] I’m coming to play for them next year who we’re battling. You think he was upset with his role? I think he was upset with his role and then went to Miami and got the same role. If Ray stayed, we could have won too. I feel like you feel you felt at that point in time if Ray comes back, y’all had y’all are equipped to deal with the uh LeBron. Yeah. Yeah. You got understand we went back to the Eastern Conference Finals. Yeah. Uh two years like we went to the finals 2010, but then we played them again in the conference finals like two or three years later in Miami. Yeah. Remember that? Yeah. Yeah. So we was we was equipped for a few more years if he stayed. Right. So that’s I mean that’s it’s funny how you guys used to handle disagreements in Boston. It’s reported that there was a disagreement between Ray Allen and Rondo for sure. And you brought boxing gloves. Yep. And y’all say, “Okay, settle it.” Man, we was having a lot of tension at the time in the locker room and it was like little clicks. You know how the teams be up clicking up and you know we was in a we was in a situation our team was built old young the young guys kicked it the old guy kicked it so we felt they old the young guys was like y’all don’t mess with us no more you know what I’m saying cuz something happened Shan like something happened man we was on the road one day and something got back to the wifeies who pillar talking man it was some pillar talk going on to where it was messing with the locker room. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? It came from the young guys. So, the oldheads, we was like, man, we we got to just move like this now. You know what I’m saying? We had to move different now. So then they like, man, why we don’t mess y’all don’t mess with the young dudes. And then, no, y’all talking. Y’all pillar talking. Yeah. And so then KG got into it with Perk. Rondo got into it with Ray or something. It was just like a division then. So it was just too much going on. It was just like, man, all right, we going to get your issue off. I brought these gloves. I had an issue at the time. We had another dude on our team named Patrick O’Brien. So, I started off first. I said, “All right, we going to get our issue off. Let’s put these gloves on cuz I got an issue with you.” Damn. Put the gloves on. We put the gloves on, right? So, no, no, no, no. We’re going to go three minutes. Boom. So, then next, so then we didn’t know that Big Baby had an issue with Tony Allen. So now Big Baby and Tony Allen, they get they get they issue. All right, who next? Rond, I want him. Me and Ray. Damn, he’s already on him. Come on, let’s get it off. And when I tell you I was right there, man, you remember you just watched that fight Canelo B. Canelo Bud, remember that ninth round how Bud came out? Ninth round. Rondo came out like that with conviction. He wanted to like he missed all of them. Yeah. But but he was trying to tear red head off. If he had connected on one of them, bro, man, man, I’m glad he didn’t connect on one of them cuz he was swinging with some conviction. I’m talking about it was no jabs. It was He was throwing number haymakers, man. It was no jabs. So Rod was throwing one hit a quitter. Whoa. And I was just like, damn. Okay, you got that. We got that out. Break this up. We got to break this up. This is if somebody connect this is going to get out of control. So, we broke it up. But yeah, they had a little issue and you know, I don’t Did they Did they men once they got past that? So, it was was it better after that or it still had friction? No, it was friction still. You know, cuz the report was is that Ray wanted Chris Paul? Oh, I don’t know that I Oh, maybe. So, it was like Yeah. And I think it got back to Rondo. Yes, that’s one of them. But it was a lot of other stuff I believe that Ray was doing cuz I think, you know, Ray would often go to Doc and be like, you know, Rondo not g, right? And I used to be like, Ray, you just go to go to Rondo. Just go Rondo. Yeah, cuz I used to be like, Rondo, run that. Like, come on, dog. Like, like, come on, dog. Hey, we got to like come on, man. Don’t go to Yeah. to go to him cuz he will feel you snitching on him. Yeah. like go to him cuz I’ll just go right to Rond sitting right here like Rond come on man what we doing out here right you know what I’m saying that was that was like RP I got you all right cool we but see Ray’s personality is not like yours see Ray not confrontational Ray going to go to the coach hey coach handle that and then Ray but see Rondo going to realize where it’s coming from yeah yeah but Ray is not as controversial but he’s political so you could polit politically talk to Rondo. Like you can use them words to where he understand like me and Rondo might have a shouting match, but we going to get over it. You could you going to talk better to him than me and him, right? Like yours going to come off different. We going to shout it out and then we going to be cool though. But that’s I mean that’s how we are. But you guys and then there was a ceremony I think the championship ceremony that and and Ray didn’t come back for. Or maybe or maybe there’s something that he was you guys didn’t invite him back. No. Oh. Oh, it was something Ray didn’t come to. It was a few things Ray didn’t come to, dog. I’m telling you. And that’s what made the relationship tough cuz when Rondo first resigned this new deal, we all had a get together for him at a restaurant. He didn’t show up. Man, look here. The man tried to tear my head off. I ain’t coming. P. I’m going to be honest with you. Same thing though. And so like all that built up to man I might have came and kicked that whole cake over. So but we we just felt like no matter your relationship like we got to support each other. Okay. I see what you’re saying. If I got a bowling event y’all all got to like if they doing this like come on everybody support each other. We on the same we’re trying to win bro. Like you ain’t got to stay long right? You know and that’s you know and that’s that was kind of like the beginning of the breakup with all of us. And it was just like man wish we could have stayed together a few more years. You mentioned one of your former teammates, uh, Glenn Big Baby Davis, and he had an unfortunate situation where got involved with some some activities and now he finds himself in in in federal prison. How difficult is it to see it’s, you know, for me it’s very difficult to see my former teammates when they fall on hard times because I I remember, you know, I choose to remember the great times that we have in the locker rooms, on the bus, on the planes, laughing and joking on the practice field and to see him going through what he’s going through. How difficult is that you be? Man, you hate to see, you know, a few things when you’re done playing that you’ve accomplished so much with people. You hate to see, you know, them go broke. Yeah. You know, and need something from you cuz I’m always willing to help. Yeah. You hate to see them go to jail, which has happened in this situation. And I haven’t had a chance to talk to Big Baby. I would love to like reach out. You know, I’ve had a few teammates go to jail, actually. Uh and you know sometimes like it’s hard to communicate because you gota the letter writing and the visitations you got to do so much and then they in other states. Yeah. And so you try to just talk through other people that can get the mess closer to family members but you hate to see that type of stuff because of the bonds you you built you built and you hate to see people fall on tough times. And you know hopefully this makes him stronger because like him going in he seemed like he was on some positive vibes. He didn’t seem like where he cuz he was all on Instagram and you never know Instagram covers up a lot of our emotions. Yeah. Instagram fake. Yeah. You know it covers up who we really are cuz Instagram got me thinking I’m broke cuz everybody live everybody got culling. Everybody got uruses. Everybody got like well damn what they doing that I Right. I’m like well damn y’all got it like that. Right. Right. I’m like everybody everybody happy. Everybody in a happy relationship Pete. Everybody been married for 10 15 years. They what got the woman of their dreams. They got the man of their dreams. The family is great. I’m like, “Come on now.” Nah. What you see on there and what you see in person is two different things entirely. That makeup come off. Yeah. We know. We know what’s under that makeup. KG. Um, you mentioned that you guys had a great relationship and everybody talk about how, you know, how intense he is and how much he talks. Did could you tell when KG was getting under people’s skin? Yeah. I mean, dude, KG just is just an intimidating force just like looking at him like, man, like his aura. Yeah. Like he got a whole aura about him like just walking in the room and then if he start barking at you and saying stuff, it’s just like you got to understand a lot of the and he do it to the younger guys too. A lot of the younger guys looked up to him. They did. And it was just like, you know, I didn’t heard some stuff like, oh, is that true? What he told what he told Yokim Noah? Cuz he’s like, hey man, I admire you, man. The way you play. He said, man, get on my get off my D, man. Stop. I was right there. I was right. He said that for real, Pete, man. 100%. Man, look Joe Kim. And they made up since then, and we laugh about it. And Joe Kim is cool. So we was at the free throw line. He was like, man, I’m sitting right there. I heard the whole thing. I’m right there. He was like, “Yeah, KG, man. I just want you to know, you know, man, I look up to you. Uh, man, I had your poster and everything, man. Damn, you know, I would love to work out.” Something something along that, man. Get off my D. Like, he yelled it. I was like, damn. No, but look. No, but look, it was another one. Here go another one. Here go another story that all thing got out. It was another player. He was like, “Hey, uh, hey, we at the free throw line again.” Because, you know, this guys like to talk. He like, “Hey, Kev, man. I just want to invite you. You know, I’m having my wedding this summer. Uh, you know, I would like to continue inviting, man. Kevin, man.” Looked up and said, “Fuck you.” Like, go damn. I was like, “Damn, KG. I look like. So, the one thing I did learn, dude, don’t talk to Kevin during the game. Like, talk to him before or after or text him that. Like, y’all over here telling this stuff during the game, he is in full gladiator mode right now, dude. Leave him alone. Right. Like, come on. Stop that, y’all. The the the the situation that he and Carmelo got into it, the Cheerios things have been debunked. Yeah. But how surprised were you were you that Melo was waiting at the bus and wanted to throw heads at KG? Yeah, I see. I didn’t know what was going on cuz I think I was still in the shower or something. Uh, you know, before I realized what was going on, right? Like, and I didn’t even hear what was said to this day. And I’ve never asked him, right? You know, it’s just certain sick things you just don’t even want to know if it’s true or not, you know? And that’s one of them for me. And it was just like, damn, he must have he really got under Melo’s skin. And then when it came out that he was talking about something about his wife and all that and I was like, man, I didn’t heard KG talk a lot of [ __ ] but he ain’t I don’t think he went there with it. You know what I’m saying? Maybe he thought he heard something like that, but I ain’t I ain’t never heard nothing to that to where you like that’s crossing the line. Yeah. Oh yeah. You know, hey man, people wife, man, people don’t play about the wives, the girlfriend, kids. Hey, you stay away from that. Yeah, stay away from that. Everything else is fair game. All right, we playing a game. It’s whatever. But like the personal family and and kids and vibes, they keep that out of it. Now, I’ve heard the girlfriend stuff a lot. The girlfriends is open. Yo, they do. Yeah, for sure. The girl, if it’s just your girlfriend, that’s open season. I heard stuff like that, not from him, but other players like, “Hey, that’s your girl.” Oh, yeah. She was with me. It’s like, you said that like in the game? I was like, “What?” to the other player and the player was all this game the rest of the game. Man, it’s some stuff. I know you just heard some stuff, too. Oh, for sure. Oh, man. I might have uttered a few things. Let’s go ahead. You know, like you said, it’s fair game. Fair game. Fair game. You you uh you uh uh uh did you smack talk trash talk to Kobe sometime? But like like Kobe he he he different like he just he he he like his sometime his mouth talk was breathing hard on you like he just had this look in his nose. He had this thing with his nose and flared like like like he wouldn’t say nothing. I was just like a [ __ ] You know what? I should have said nothing to do. No, but it was one Allstar game. Uh, so we beat them in the finals. So the next year in the All-Star game, he at the free throw line and I yelled something from the bench like that’s why y’all blew it last year or something. I said something foul. Yeah, you you going to choke like you did in the finals last year. You choke. Yeah. I said you choke. You gonna choke. Man, we was about to fight in the All-Star game for real, dude. He came over to me on the bench, walked right dead over there, got in my face. I had to stand up like, “Hold up. Hold on. You ain’t going to stand up on me now.” Come on. Yeah. Yeah. You a Yeah. So, I had to stand up like, “What you talking about then?” So, I’m thinking like, “Dude, like he he really like we it’s the Allar game. I know we like I’m thinking we about to squabble in the Allar game. He was He was hot. I I was like, damn. All right. You know what? I ain’t trying to do all that in the allar for real.” Man, I was like, damn, I sure, you know what? Let me chill. You mentioned the battles, like you said, look, I’m not a top 75 player. I’m not thought of as a player I am if I don’t have those battles with LeBron. When he’s at Cleveland, when he’s at Miami, he’s at Miami, I’m in I’m in in uh Brooklyn. You a lot of times you guys guarded each other. Uh that game that game I think was that game six? Mhm. I think it was game six. You had 40. He had 42 or you had 42. He had 40. But you guys were going at it. You guys I mean that was that was uh we game seven Boston. We both had 40. Yeah. You guys were going at it. Yeah. So how you what are you trying to do to get him off his game? Um is there a spot you’re trying to keep him from getting to? Are you talking to him like, “Bro, this this not your year. This this is this is not it.” I would talk to LeBron at the go our meetings at the free throw line again like oh he you know I always used to say he gonna choke at the line because at the time he was always missing big free throws but like the the like when he’s on you can’t stop him because the the the strategy is to make him shoot jumpers but if his jumper is on if he hitting then it’s over right and that’s what happened in that game that game six in the guard y was hitting everything fadeaways threes cuz the the scouting is to go under the pick and roll, right? Let him shoot jumpers. And if if his jumper is on, it’s nothing you can do cuz he’s on now if you like when you get down, you don’t want to give him the free jumper cuz now you got to get up right now. He going by and doing all that, man. It was just like, man, you got to pick the the lesser of two evils, but if he got them both going, it’s a long night. And he’s so strong, man. I just remember trying to foul him, bro. You damn near had to WWF him to just stop him from getting the and one. Like I remember so many different fouls I gave. I’m damn near tackling them and he still almost cuz you see the one with the Mars twin when he playing Boston and he grabbed him by the back and LeBron still lays it up and get I did that so many times to where it’s down you down there got to tackle him to stop him from like getting the and one, right? Especially when he got that full steam ahead. It’s like man, you mentioned uh it’s reported that you told him I have the ball to take that shot in game five of the 2000 Eastern Conference Finals. You said that it sound like me. That sound like something about sex. I’m trying to figure out why you and UD got you and UD for them iron y’all differences out. I ain’t talked to UD. I really ain’t got no beef with UD like cuz like and I said some things and the reason I said what I said because I didn’t appreciate what UD said about Russell. Russell West. No, Bill Russell. Real Russell. Okay. you know, he said something I thought that was foul. You know, Russell was passed by then. Yeah. You know, and I didn’t appreciate that. And you know, we got a long rivalry with Boston Miami and everything. And I threw a shot. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? Like, and that’s all it was because like when we played against each other, it wasn’t never know me and him in each other face. It was more like me and D Wayade, right? Or me and Braun, you know? So, it wasn’t nothing like that. So I I said what he said what he said and I was like kind of like defending our culture our our our side because what I said was I went on Stephen Jackson page um and he got his jersey retired down and Stephen Jackson was like welld deserved and I said I think I said not given well not it was it wasn’t deserved it was given right like something like that and it was a shot and I probably and I and I probably shouldn’t have said nothing like that. But I just Yeah, you know damn well you ain’t supposed to go on somebody else page and take take no shot Johnny nobody cuz that ain’t me. Usually I usually don’t do that cuz I tell a person, right? You know, and I just felt the need to like say that cuz of what was said. I felt it it was a disrespect toward Russell. Uh but like you know I ain’t got no issue with UD but like if we see each other like face to face you know I tell them the same thing like man I ain’t really got no issue with you. You know this we we grown, we retired, we got kids and stuff. We got kids. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? I I ain’t trying to have no issue with nobody. Who you think talk more, Gary Peyton or KG? Gary, bro, shut Gary up. You can’t shut Gary up. That’s why I didn’t Man, GP be out his mind, man. You can’t shut him up. Like once he get going, man. I’m telling you, man. When GP, you know, we played in Boston with me, man. GP, me and GP was a fight one day and I looked up to GP. Like I completely looked up to GP. He from Oakland. Uh I followed him all the way through. You know, him and my brother knew each other growing up. And GP was saying something and I was like, “Man, shut up, little man. I’ll beat your ass.” He was like, “Well, do it then.” He was like, he started yelling and he started getting all hyped up and all this. I was like, “Come.” I was like, he got so turned up and I’m like, “Man, I respect the G. I’m bigger than him. I’m younger than him.” G. Yeah, come on, man. I had to smile it off. I had to let it, you know. But G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G my man I love G to this day. That’s my big brother, man. I But ain’t nobody ain’t nobody talk more than G. G’s not going to stop. Like J like KG going to spit here and there, but G is just going to keep on going like all night. It’s like damn, I done turned him on. A guy that’s caught a lot of criticism. I think he does a great job on television. I’ve worked with him um on both shows, Undisputed and ESPN. It’s Perk. Okay. Um he played his role. You know, look, Perk, you know, Perk ain’t going to get you no 20, but he going to set great screens. He going to rebound. He going to hard foul you. But he’s caught a lot of criticism. Um Russ, uh he said that, you know, he and Russ had a falling out because he said something about Russ and his wife sent him a letter. Uh, he and KD been going back and forth a little bit on Twitter, stuff like that. What was it like playing with Perk? Man, I love playing with Perk. He understood his role and, you know, he was our our enforcer, you know, he was our big man. And I’ll never forget when I felt like I knew we would win this series. I’ll tell you this one series. This was when Cleveland was the number one seed with Shaq. Mhm. We were the four seed and we played them in the second round and I remember Shaq tried to punk Perk man. Perk stood in that Shaq face like I’ll beat your like and I was just like oh okay you know I ain’t never seen nobody stand up to Shaq like I was like that gave me confidence like oh yeah we going to whoop them. You know what I’m saying? Cuz Shaq is intimidating. I don’t care how old Shaq is. I don’t care. He could be 99 years old. Shaq is intimidating to this day. And I’m like, “Oh yeah, Perk just like lowkey kind of got in Shaq face, right?” So I’m like, “Oh man, we we about to get them.” And you know, but that Perk understood his role. And that’s why I say if he don’t get hurt, I feel like we win, right? Two rings. Was Did Perk have hot takes in the locker room? Was Was Perk a chalker back then? I mean, he understood the game and most of the time it be me and Kevin cuz we stuck around longer in the locker room. me and Kevin like we be there cuz we the old man they usually leave but Perk was always knowledgeable he always had his say in the conver but they you know they gone but then when we retired you know he would all me and him would talk and he’d just be like man you know I’m looking to get into the business you know what you think you know and I was like he’s very strong opinionated he’s always perfect that’s what you got to have you got to have he’s very been been strong opinionated and that’s what you have you got to stand on you got to stand on anybody can say well I like both guys or you know what It’s it’s really No, you got to have an opinion and stand when you cuz criticism is going to come eventually. Criticism is going to come because you’re not going to be on the right side of everybody’s opinion and you got to stand on it. And you can’t be in this trying to be liked all the time. N you know, you you got to say what you feel. What you feel and you know, he’s always done that. Yeah. And so that’s why he’s great in this in this space. What was it like playing with Shaq? Because you didn’t get the you didn’t get the the magic Shaq. You didn’t get uh uh Laker Shack. You didn’t even get u um Heat Shack. You got a guy that had been around. I think he had gone to Phoenix and and and and came to you guys. I think he ended up going to Cleveland last. But what was it like with Shaq? Man, that was one of the funnest teams I ever played on. Like we didn’t win it, but we I promise you, Shannon, if Shaq had been healthy, we would have won it that year. Really, dude? Go back and look at our record with Shaq. I think we were like 28 and three. Wow. Like and then he gets hurt. Yeah. Something like that. Like we were rolling with All we needed was his presence. Because the thing about Shaq, when you drive to the lane, nobody helping off of them. So the lane wide open, right? And you not helping off KG, right? I was having a field day with them. Like Rondo was having a field day with them too in the line. Double layup. But then off the court, man, just the laughs we had with him. And you just know, you know, Shaq, he just he funny. He just he just a comedian. big, big old kid. And then we had Nate Robinson with him. Oh man, that that was that was one of the funniest times because we all kicked it. We all went to dinner. And this was the one the only person Shaq is the only one that had a bigger aura than KG. Wow. Cuz going, you know, being in practice in the locker room, KG, he got the biggest ore. Then you see another big or come in there and you like it, it’s bigger than that one, right? It’s like, damn, I’m in the locker room with these these like a big big sun in the locker room shining. I’m like, man. And then and then we sitting there having story time after practice. You know, the OG’s we going to sit there after practice, be chopping it up, talking about whatever, shooting [ __ ] So, that was that was one of the funnest time. Was Shaq still pranking people when he got to Boston? Was he still pranking? Man, that is never going to stop, man. Come on. Shack was doing putting stuff in people’s shoes. Yeah. Uh uh uh K Lou told a story of how he took a dump in Deon George shoes, man. He was doing Man, he was still doing stuff like that. Him and Nate Robinson, dude. I’m telling you, there was the two. It was crazy. But that’s who Shaq is, you know? So, it it made the locker room fun. Yeah. You also have a teammate, Dante West, who’s kind of falling on hard times. He’s dealing with some issues. Uh Mark Cuban has tried to help him out, but he kind of had a relapse and he’s back in it. Um um what was he like? What was playing with Dante like? And did you see anything that would led lead you to believe that this could possibly be a fate down the road? No, I mean actually Dante was one of my favorite teammates cuz I had him a young Dante. You know, just having him and Tony Allen together was like, man, you you wouldn’t believe it. They was like the good friends on the team and they was my youngest and Deli Dante was really good though. But just to like be around him every day, his competitive spirit and to know where he came from and I knew when he was in the league he needed medication. It was already Yeah. He Yeah. Yeah. It was It was like when he was playing for us, he needed medication then. And I didn’t know it would turn into what we see today, but we knew he had like uh I don’t know if it’s a bipolar disorder or something like that. I think he was diagnosed with to where you know Danny would like talk to him and make sure try to make sure he take his meds and all that because like you saw a couple episodes like to where he go off and you know he had a couple fights uh in the locker room but you know you didn’t think it’ll just turn into like full on just like he just had an episode. Yes. Like and you know it just goes to show you how difficult it is to deal with uh mental health. I have two nephews and I have the chance to see it firsthand, Shannon, what schizophrenia is like. Like it’s the worst thing that you can have for a family to deal with every day because every day is new and it’s different and you don’t know what can happen, you know. And you know, I just encourage people to just if you’re dealing with this in your family and the people around you, you know, just show the love and make sure that you could give the support that you can give because it it’s it’s a real thing. And it it can damage it can break a family apart. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. You know, and I’ve seen, you know, that firsthand. And you know, you you try to pray and you try to not wish that upon people, but it’s just it’s difficult. And like I said, it can break families apart. Wow. LeBron, heading into year 23. Year 22, averaged almost 25 points a game, eight rebounds a game, eight assists a game, shot over 50% from the floor, shot 38% from the three, shot one of his career highs from the free throw line. You said you believe 23 will be his last season. You still believe 23 is his last season. Is that this year? Yeah. Yeah. I think this will be his last season. You know, I mean, he’s he’s accomplished so much. He’s played so long and I I truly believe that now that you’ve had the opportunity, like you’ve done something that’s never been done in the game multiple times, right? And the one ultimate thing that’s there’s two things that’s never going to happen while I’m alive. Nobody’s going to break his scoring record and no other player will play with their son. Right. I don’t believe that those two things will happen. I think like there has to be unless you had a son in high school. Yeah. Right. Right. and and I just have to believe that he has a sense of fulfillment now that you know he’s done it all and accomplished so much and now he’s built up such a great offthe-court presence with his businesses and things of that nature that that’s going to be his next challenge and growing that and becoming the best in that field and you know because I know it eats at him every year he doesn’t win a championship and I know he loves the Okay. But I I truly believe that you don’t believe KD can break his scoring record. KD’s at almost 30,000. Where’s LeBron at? 50 42 regular season points. So, no. And so much things have to go right. He has to be healthy for like the next 10 years, I think. Cuz I mean, he has to play he has to play basically at least seven years and play all the games. And play the games. Yeah. All of them. Mhm. No, no injuries, no sit outs. And LeBron’s playing this year. I don’t think it I I think it’s it’s really hard because normally guys retire when they can’t play at the level they’re accustomed to. You averaging 25 points a game, Pete, with eight and eight. It’s hard to walk away and you make Now it’s different because we’ve never seen LeBron in the final year of his contract. Very unless LeBron really wants to be in the final year of his contract. is reported that the Lakers like, nah, we we gonna wait and see how this year turns out. So, I don’t think LeBron goes I don’t think I don’t think he really wants to go anywhere else. He’s building a compound here in LA. He loves LA. He came to LA. They didn’t recruit him. He came to them. Yeah. It’s like winning a lot. I ain’t even played the lottery, but I won. Yeah. Magic Magic ain’t do. He showed up at He and Rich Ball showed up at Magic’s house. And that’s going to be a hard that’s going to be a hard decision because this is all he knows. I mean, over half this man’s life has been in the NBA. Think about it. He’s going to be 41. This will be So since he was 18, all he knows is the NBA. But I have to believe that he doesn’t want to play just to play. True. You know, he wants to win. Like he wants to win a championship. And if there’s if there’s a situation to where if the Lakers lose the first round or how they lose, well, he should he should want to go. If you lose in the first round with Luca and Austin Reeves and what you have, I I I get it. You don’t have no history. You don’t got no get great big man. But with Luca and LeBron, you should never lose in the first round, right? That in and of itself, you should never lose in a place first round. Yep. So, I believe it’s all going to depend. I don’t think he’ll announce it, but I think burning the circumstances on how they go out this year, he’ll make that decision. You uh um you LeBron mom almost beat you up for piling that man hard. That was that what LeBron LeBron told told Glo, “Sit down.” Glow tried to get Hey, Glow. Come on, mama. You know we love you. Come on, mama. Hey, why you trying to come? I’m just trying to just not let him make the layup, mama. I wasn’t trying to hurt him. I ain’t never tried to hurt him. You guys have played You guys have played a lot. Yeah, we play. LeBron has beat you 35 times. You beat him 34 times. Yeah. You want to go back and get try tie this thing up? We going to tie this thing up with a dagger three. I sit in the corner. I’m going to go back and tie this up. Damn. I’m trying to think. What was the last game? The last game was probably in Brooklyn. Yeah. Or Washington. Oh, this is regular season, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Damn. That close. What What if you guys were the same age? What if you came in cuz you came in 98, LeBron came in 03. If you guys were like, if we were the same age, I don’t believe he would have had four championships. He wouldn’t have got you kept him. you kept it for four. He wouldn’t have got those two in Miami cuz I I I got to believe if we’re the same age and I could offset him. Mhm. And that would have been good enough, right? You know, like if he hadn’t got 40 in game six and we the same, I would probably would got 40 and offset him, right? You know, I was at an older age then, a lot of miles and stuff and it was hard for me to keep up with him. I ain’t going to lie. I’m looking I be looking at that tape sh and I’m like like damn I couldn’t even move like a younger I could have moved with him but I’m like yeah but we cuz you know in Brooklyn you say you got him. You going to d him up in Brook I don’t know what you was on that day. My mind and body say two different things. Your mind was saying one thing that body said no I I ain’t I got him. You know I I thought I did. Oh man, I ain’t going to lie. That’s Hey, you you was say you was very outspoken uh uh about KD going to the Warriors. You say it’s not so much that they have the ability to go. LeBron and KD had the ability to go wherever they wanted, but it was KD going to a team that won 73 games. They have the MVP and they had just lost the finals. Do you believe that KD would have been judged judged differently had he gone somewhere else and helped that team win a championship as opposed to the Warriors? Yeah, of course he would have got judged differently because the way and it’s the same thing with Ray. We just lost to Miami then you joined them, right? KD, you just lost to Golden State who you should have beat, right? Cuz you up 3-1. You was up three and you joined them. And so that’s why that’s where the criticism come in because it was just like damn Katie, you good enough to beat them, right? Like we feel like that’s cuz that’s how the old school stars won. We like, man, I’mma get over the hump. I’mma take my lumps. Take my lumps. And people just thought felt like he took the easy way out. Okay. And that’s all. But like, you know, I get it because we live in a culture to where it rings everything now. Judged off your championship. So he said, “Let me get that out the way.” Yep. So now what y’all going to talk about, right? And so I get it. You know, it’s more understandably now because I come from the old school and I feel like, man, you got to you got to get it the hard way sometimes. You got to take your lump and maybe Hey, and maybe you don’t get over the hump. Yeah. Charles Barkley and and and Carl Malone, maybe you don’t get over the hump, but what you don’t do is and I I don’t I look at it like this. He paid his debt to to society. He paid his debt to the uh uh the Thunder. Mhm. His contract was up. I’m trying to think. I don’t know if he could have gone where where could he have gone and won a championship. If you look at look look at the landscape. If you go back if you if you can remember. If you go back and look at the landscape, where is he going? If he goes to the Knicks, he not be he not beating Kyrie and Kevin Love and Braun in Cleveland. If he goes if he goes anywhere else, they’re not going to beat the Warriors. He got to go back to OKC. You got to stay in OKC. Okay. Okay. You you got to stay right. You you you went to the finals with that team, right? And you up 3-1 against it. This was supposed to be the rivalry that we should have saw the next five, six years to where one of these two teams is going to go to the finals every year, right? You know that you stay there, you got the team. Yeah. But I think a lot of that had to do with Russ. Yeah. You know, I think they had they was bumping heads. Yeah. And it looked like it on the court because you felt like Russ should have got him the ball more, but Russ felt like I’m the man, right? You know, and then, you know, it’s hard to argue cuz the next year he goes to win the MVP and average a triple double. So, it’s hard to say that he couldn’t be the man. He and and that’s the hardest thing, right? Is that Shaq and Kobe should have won more championships together, right? But Kobe like, I’m the man. And Shaq like, “No, you little bro.” He said, “No, not no more.” Damn. Cuz just imagine the perfect situation is Kareem and Magic. If that Magic was C, where you want the ball? Gotcha. Right. It’s hard when one guy believed that he can be the man and he should be the man. Magic knew he could be cuz Magic cuz when when when Pat Riley challenged him to say, “I need you to score more.” Magic went out and scored more, averaged over 20 and won the MVP. Right. But he’s like, “And when Magic tells the story that when C when uh uh Pat Riley told him that he needed to score more, he like, you run that by Cap.” Oh, wow. You Hey, I need you to clear that up with Cap, right? But damn, that was Magic’s game was passing. Yes. You know, when you got two guys who they game scoring, then you got to say who’s going to right, you know, take the lesser role in all of this. It’s it’s hard because the way we we live in a society, we got to determine credit. somebody. It ain’t no 50/50. No truth. We got to get somebody be 51. We got to get somebody 49. We got to be 6040. We got to be 7030. Ain’t no 50/50. So whose team is it? Right. Kobe got tired of hearing he Batman. I mean he got he robbing, right? That he riding Shaq’s coattails. He was chasing something else. Yes, he was chasing something else. He knew that in order for him to become he couldn’t he can’t Yes. He got He had the mama name with with Shaq. But in order for us to look at him differently, he had to do this without Shaq. Yep. We’re never gonna We’re never gonna look at him if he’s doing all the He went five championships with Shaq. We’re not looking at Kobe the same as we look at him now. 100%. Yeah. He he was on a mission. He knew that he had to get under that shadow. He had to. Damn. He just It’s a lot of just in the histories of the sports is a lot of whatifs. Mhm. Damn. Cuz plus I got We got to assign credit to somebody. Yeah. We got to sign. We see this. We see this in football with coach Bichc and Tom Brady. Who gets the most credit, right? Well, when Tom left, Tom went and got a championship with with with New with uh Tampa. Yep. Coach Bellich went to the playoffs and then two years of mediocrity. He’s the coach at UNCC. Yep. We look at the 49ers. We look at Bill Walsh. We look at Joe Montana. Coach Walsh retired. Joe wins another one with Tom with Sea. George Seafford. So we can say so now we can definitively say okay it was him right we got to be able to determine who the reason why we winning the championship we got that’s just the way we’re wired that’s the way it’s not good it’s not good enough right Shaq and Kobe nah nah n but Shaq was so dominant bet he would you had to see it people don’t real people people cuz people look at Shaq now and they see him he he having fun people just don’t realize Man, he dominant. You couldn’t do nothing with him. Do nothing. Nothing. They trying. Just imagine if they called foul. Shaq would shoot like 50 free throws a game if they they called every foul, man. Come on. It’s Damn. You couldn’t do nothing with the big foul. You couldn’t. People don’t realize just how athletic considering his size, considering his agility. People don’t realize how good people think, oh, Joel Embiid, Joel Embiid couldn’t move like Shaq. young with Shaq with Shaq Orlando Shaq and the first three years of LA Shaq. There wasn’t a better athlete on the planet. No. Yep. He’s 71. He’s 33530 lb and he can move like a 67 guy that’s 200 lb. Yep. Yep. You had to see it. Like I said, some things like you had to see Barry Sanders play in person to really appreciate what he was doing. You had to see Jared Rice. You had to see Prime. You had Some things you just have to see in person. So why is it you don’t think that Jordan is better than LeBron? You saw them both. I did. I saw him in person. Like cuz James, man. Come on. Come on. I mean, cuz you think about it. Come on. Because he could do more. He could rebound better. He could So what do we go off of, dude? Because this is the argument that I have today. like you know like better player is one thing. Yes. Like is he just like let’s take away all the accolades. Yes. Like LeBron is probably the greatest player of the game, right? But it’s unfortunate that we got to add the accolades and we have to add So we going So how many So we going and we going to So we going to put those like 20 AllNBA selections in there. 21 all NBA selection. We put that in there. Okay. We’re going to put that in. We’re going to put those 28 those No, no. We’re not going to put those in there. Okay. So, we’re not going to do accolades. This what we’re going to do. Okay. We going to do We’re going to take the 15 years or 13 years Jordan played the first and let’s match him up with the 15 years. My guy still playing, huh? My guy’s still playing. You can’t say this guy if this guy was So, we’re crediting longevity as a reason. You make it seem like LeBron just out there. No, he’s not out there, but I’m see the peak of your superpowers. Did you see Did you see Jordan in Did you see Jordan in in Washington? I never seen Jordan disappoint in a big moment. Did you see Jordan in Washington? Yeah, I played against Jordan in Washington. Yeah. Yeah. That was like a a a farewell tour. We don’t do My guy still going at 23. Ain’t no farewell. Ain’t no telling witness to me. Ain’t no W. Ain’t no telling. We got a We got a book that’s a th00and page and ain’t the end yet. We ain’t at the end yet. Oh man, you ain’t lying. I mean, that’s Nothing’s ever going You’re not going to do that. Nobody’s going to do what he’s doing ever again. I mean, think about those points. Truth. But is this is this a statistical thing? Then if it was, then why don’t we say Kareem was the greatest before. But see, that was the that was But here’s the thing. Because people say championships, but they crown Jordan as the greatest players when he had none. If you go back and look at the late 80s, the early the late 80s, they found him as the best player in the league. They said he was the greatest player that we’d ever seen and he had no championship. They didn’t call him the GOAT though. But that we uh uh first of all, they didn’t call him the GOAT. They said he was the greatest player we’ve ever seen. Yes. Just like when Barry Sanders was there, he’s the greatest running back we ever seen. Yes. But they said, they didn’t say he’s the greatest player. They said Jordan was the greatest player we had ever seen and he had no championships. Yeah. But then they say he’s the GOAT. But there’s a difference between greatest player and the GOAT. But how do you get Tom Brady? Like Tom Tom Brady when we just look at Tom like he’s like he’s the goat, right? Yeah. But like when you look at him compared to like Rogers and Momes, if you just watch him, right? Like he don’t look better than them, right? But see, I for me, I mean, look, I I I think Thomas because the quarterback is so so damn important, but I can make a case that LT or Jerry Rice is the greatest players of all time, but they’re not as important as the quarterback because he touches the ball. LeBron, Jordan was never asked to do what LeBron has been asked to do. The Jordan had a specific task. LeBron, they asked LeBron said, “LeBron, we need you to give us 27. We need you to give us 10.” and we need you to give us 10. And we need you to do that every night. And in the meantime, we still need you to guard the great best player. All right. I will say this, LeBron has he has the greatest of all time influence on winning. Okay. Like from day one, you put them on this team, they’re better team than what if he’s not on it. Well, you can say that about Jordan, but just like his influence on winning is greater than Jordan. Okay. Because you look at the teams he took to the finals, you know, it’s like, damn, you dragged them or you dragged them to that 2018 team ain’t got no business in the finals. But then you kind of erase that because then you be like, damn, how did you lose when you had this? I I think if you think about it, the only thing the only team the only time that I think LeBron really should have won the championship was against the Dallas Mavericks. He wasn’t favored in any other championship really. Does the journey matter? How you win? Does that matter? It does to me. It It matters, right? It does. Like, because if you’re saying Kobe became something different because he stuck it out with the Lakers and won without Shaq, that matters. That’s elevated Kobe. Well, see, if they could have got him pieces, do you think Kobe win if he don’t get Pal? If they don’t get Pal is not a top 75 player, but I’m saying if they don’t get him. No, they don’t. LeBron couldn’t get nobody to come to Cleveland, bro. He took think about he got Timothy Marosg 75 million he had Delaova Delova is your starting part up there that see that’s my point that’s what he was up against just imagine if Jerry West was his GM he would have knew what pieces to put around LeBron but that’s what makes the journey matter like when you go through the rough times like like me and Cole like we talked about earlier We were like, “Oh, we going to we we we you know, the journey’s over.” But he stuck it out. Yeah. He And that meant something for him to stay a Laker and wait for them to see if they were going to do something, right? He never ran. LeBron raided. LeBron waited. What year was it? Yeah, like year seven. He just realized What year did Jordan win? Uh, seven or eight? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But here’s the thing. They got him Scotty Pippen. They got him whole Graham. They Scotty became something. We They don’t know Scotty. They They didn’t go get Scotty Pippen. They drafted well. That’s what I’m saying. They weren’t drafting well though. Truth. But they were trying to do everything to get him. They got Ben Wallace, Shaq, Antoine. They was trying. But they Ben Wallace was my age. Yeah. I mean Shaq was my age. But you think that, think about this, the great players, people always gravitate towards the great players. Yes. The good role players gravitate. Yeah, but they ain’t going to Cleveland to gravitate towards them. Why not? People tried to go to Cleveland like Milwaukee won. Milwaukee won. Yeah. Denver won. Who want to go? I you I tell you what, let me ask you this. You think Jiannis is going to finish his career in Milwaukee? I mean, in the landscape we are today, it’s hard to say that somebody’s going to finish his career with one team. Yeah. Because he wants to win. And you know, once you get a taste of that winning truth. Yeah. But whose journey was better, Jordan or LeBron’s? You think it’s harder to win as many championships as Jordan did with one team or win the championship that he’s won like LeBron on multiple teams? It’s hard to win period. Yeah. Oh, for sure. We’ve agreed to that. Yeah, we going to agree with that. But now if I go say, “All right, I want to go over here.” But then I get to handp pick. What part of the journey is that? That has to mean something. That has to mean like Jordan is say pick pippin. Did he right? They got him on a on a hinge that’s saying hey maybe he become something right you know like the journey has to like mean something and you know it doesn’t take away from LeBron’s ability right like he’s like like just take away all everybody take away everybody’s championships. LeBron LeBron has the greatest ability of any basketball player ever. Like skill-wise, right? Like I mean, dude, he’s the scoring champ. He can pass like magic. He can rebound like Robin. I mean, he can Yeah, he can do it all. He can do it all. Like, if I’m building a basketball player, I want to build LeBron like an athleticism. No, no, no player’s been able to do more. But the mental fortitude is what we always questioned about him. Well, just let me ask you a question. Let’s just say for the sake of argument, LeBron James would have had a historically great coach. Say he had a Dean Smith in college for three years and then he get a Phil Jackson for the better part of his career. What coach did you believe that LeBron James going to have that’s going to go to the Hall of Fame? Maybe Spolstra. Spolster will go to the Hall of Fame. Tyoo will go to the Hall of Fame. Uh let’s see who he with right now. JJ Ready. JJ Ready, Mike Brown. V uh uh uh uh Vogle. But who made who? Who made who? Did Did Phil make Jordan? All I know is Phil left somewhere else and went and won a championship. But did Phil make Jordan? I’m just asking you a question. Did he leave? Tell me the coach. Tell me the coach. Tell me the coach that’s won a championship after they left LeBron. Uh probably nobody. Why that? Because LeBron elevated the coach, right? Yeah. So did Jordan. Phil won Phil won three more. Phil won five championships after he left Jordan. I mean, come on. You inherited Kobe and Shaq. I just said I just said what he did. You inherited That’s like right now if you inherit like who ain’t won a championship of a great player in the league right now. Vogle inherited Vogle inherited uh uh uh didn’t he have KD and Book? Oh, Vogle won with Braun. Yes. But did he get Book and did wasn’t he in Phoenix? Yeah. And that was trash. Oh god. My goodness. Yeah. I mean, I’m not taking nothing away. LeBron I think the coach I think me personally I I give more credit to the player than the coach though. Do you? Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. I give way in the NBA. Yeah. NFL is coaching. NBA is the player. You know that. Yeah. One player can change your fortune in the NBA. It’s different in the NBA. I agree. You know what I’m saying? I definitely agree with that. Let me ask you this. Clippers. You go to the Clippers. You said that you hated that you demanded a trade to leave Boston. If you had it to do over again, you finish your whole career in Boston even though you don’t win another championship because it seems like once you won, you start tra you still, you know, that high that high that that that high of winning a championship. It’s like they say it’s called chasing the dragon. So you never get that high that you initially felt the first time you did it, but you chase it. Yeah. So you won it in Boston. Let me go to Brooklyn. Yeah. Let me go to the Clippers or let me go to the or let me go to the Wizard. is is you you chasing that. You wish you had like, you know what, if I’m going to win another one, it’s going to be here in Boston. Yeah. I wish I could have stayed there my whole career. Yeah, I really do. But I’m not mad at my path because I had a chance to be an influence on some other young teams. Yeah. You know, and I enjoyed that experience. I really did. Like just cuz being in one place your whole career is great. Yeah. But to go to Brooklyn, experience the big city, right? and then go to Washington to play with these young two all star and give them some game. Yeah. And then to reunite with Doc at home to finish it out. Like I I love the way I ended it actually. Even though I would have loved to end in Boston, I loved having that experience on the way out the way I did it cuz like even in being at back home in LA, it was like it gave me a chance to retire and really kind of like put my feet down and ease into retirement in a smooth way, right? cuz I hadn’t already had it figured out because I’m home. I have my house here, my kids, everything. I retired. I jumped into sports analyst media and and it was a good transition for me. How difficult was it for the Clippers? Because, bro, you’re a 10 time allstar, you’re a finals MVP, you’re an AllNBA selection, and you coming off the bench. Oh, man. I was, you know, it’s crazy. I just called game in Washington, too. Yes. Yes. And dog Doc put me on the [ __ ] I was hot. I was like I just I could have stayed in Washington. Yeah. It started like I was just like I had it it was like as when you get to that level and I understood what Russ felt in LA now. Russell Westbrook. Yes. This is my first time ever coming off the bench. Yeah. It was like a shock. I was just like damn. It was like hold on. Like you got to see who I’m coming off the bench for for Lance Stevens or wasn’t it? It was It was uh It was Wesley Johnson. Oh. And I was like, you know, it ain’t a knock on Wesley, but I think I’m still knock on Wesley. You said I think I’m still better than him. And I was just like, you know, it got to the point to where I just had to be like, you know, but you was coming off the bench. You coming in to clean up time. They be like 3 4 minutes in the game. Truth that they putting you in at some point, but then it got to the point I wasn’t playing for at all. I was like, man, you know, I had to accept. Did you talk to Jo? Man, we had little conversations, but then it was just like it got to the point to where I understood my world. Right now I’m at the end. This is when the light the light comes on like this for me. I’m like, “This is it for me.” And then I was like, cuz Sam Cassell was on the staff, right? So, you know, practice is going. I’m on the sideline. I get to practice early workout. So, he like, “Pe, get in there, get some reps.” I looked at Sam. I said, “Sam, in your last year, did I bother you?” I said, “Get away from me.” Cuz he was with us in his last year. Yeah, I remember. I remember. He said, “I looked at him like, boy, I was on the sideline chilling. I ain’t bothering you, man. I got here early, got my workout in. Now I’m watching practice. Oh, everybody remember the viral clip? You going back and forth with Draymond and Draymond. I mean, it’s quiet and Draymond. Hey, you thought you go get that Kobe treatment? They don’t love you like that, man. Yeah. Yeah. You know what’s crazy? I didn’t hear him say that. What? So you didn’t so you didn’t hear him say no I’m on the bench and I’m talking to Draymond cuz look Golden State Warriors was like big brother to the Clippers and I’m coming over there like you know I’m the OG like hold on y’all ain’t about to be punking us while I’m over here and I’m like Blake you know I’m trying to put a battery in Blake back you know cuz Draymond he you know he going yeah man he going he trying to go at Blake but Blake a allstar too now and he was like shut up you ain’t Kobe I guess I didn’t hear until after the man because he said it under the basket where the mic picked it up so everybody on TV heard it but like in them arenas it’s hard to hear so I didn’t even I couldn’t even hear when he first said it right I didn’t know until I got into the locker room and Twitter going off and everybody said everything going crazy it’s going crazy cuz you know everybody thinking I’m just ignoring him but I’m just kind of like I didn’t hear him right and so you know it was funny I give it to Draymond he one of the alltime trash talkers he got He got me. Oh, man. B you you also bad. You’ve been going viral because you said you better than D. Wayade. I did say that. Yeah. But then you know what, Shannon? That’s what made me who I am. You hardly believe that, too. Yeah. But that’s what gave me my edge, right? You know what I’m saying? You know, I never cared about what people thought of me or other people’s opinion. When I step on the court, I’m better than all of y’all, right? You know, and that’s what made me who I am. And I’mma work toward that. You got to believe that though. You know what I’m saying? And so I’m never I’m never going to like I’m retired now. I can change up whatever. And I knew I was retired then when I said it, but like that’s who I was and that was my age. I felt like every time I stepped on the court, I was the best player player. And that’s why I made the accolades I made. Right. Um, why didn’t it work out with Kyrie and the Clipp and the uh Celtics? Man, I don’t know, man. Because I thought, you know, in the preseason, I was at that game at the practice. He said, “I’mma be a Clipper for life. I mean, a Celtic for life and I’m a resign.” And man, but you know, Kyrie different, you know, he think on a whole different level. He on a whole different level wavelength, a whole different stratosphere. And I thought that could be something that was going to work out. they can win a championship with him. But, you know, Kyrie, you know, it didn’t work out with him and Braun. It didn’t work out with him and Katie Katie in Brooklyn. It didn’t hurt work out, you know. So, you never know what Kyrie is thinking. We would have loved to have him in Boston for all them years, but it worked out. You know, it allowed Jason and Jaylen to grow. Yes. On their own because, you know, Kyrie was the was the OG and, you know, but everything happens for a reason. What do you expect from the Clippers? They got Chris Paul, they got Bradley Bill, they got James Harden. Kawhai seemed to be healthy. He worked out for like a month after the season. Um, talking to uh Too, Too said he wanted to make sure his body he missed half of the season last year, but he looked good and they’re a different team when he plays. What do you expect from the Clippers with Kyrie with excuse me, with Kawhai being healthy and all the additions? Man, I just think I think they’ll be competitive, but I just think their time is kind of passed. Yeah. You know, they older. James Harden is older. Kawawaii is older, dealt with so many surgeries and Bill is older. It’s just like this is a young man’s game. Yeah. You know, and these young teams is good, right? OKC, Minnesota, and you still got Denver over there. I think they’ll be competitive and Tyoo is a great coach and y’all got talent, but them is a lot of big names and we all know that older big names usually don’t win and so they’ll they’ll they’ll be good. They may be better than the Lakers maybe, but I I don’t see it. I don’t see it. John Wall called it a career. Are you surprised that how soon it ended for him? Man, John had a lot of lengthy injuries. You know, sometimes that can take a toll on you mentally. You know, then I think he lost his mom. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, he’s made a lot of money. Yeah. You know, in this game and, you know, he probably didn’t accomplish all the things he wanted to accomplish, but man, he had a great career. He had an unbelievable career. He had a great career. He’s been an all-star. He’s number one pick, man. My my shout out to the young fella. I’m glad I had to spend a year with him, give him some game, you know, and I I text him from time to time, hit him up, and just be like, you know, how you doing, young fella? And you know I I he has nothing to hold his head down. And I know it didn’t end the way he wanted it to end. Correct. And we all we all want that story book ended though. Yeah. We all want the story book. But sometime it don’t go that way. But I mean you know what he had a story book coming from where he came from and being hundreds of millions. Why is that on the story book Shannon? We always got to judge on championships and all that way. Like what? Or retiring on our terms. Yeah. Like no I made he’s made hundreds of millions of dollars. He’s played in NBA. He was the number one pick. He had a story book life. Yes. How about that? How about that? You’re right. You walked to work 20 miles in a bathroom. The Knicks. You really You was convinced the Knicks was going to lose to the Celt, man. Oh, I was sick. I was convinced. I hate the Knicks. And they hate me. They hate me. You know, that’s a Boston New York thing, man. I know. I put my foot in my mouth. I said that on national television and to this day I don’t regret it. And people everywhere I go say, “Did you really walk?” You saw it. You saw me in my robe. Walk inside the road. You saw it. You saw it. You got a new show, Truth After Dark. Yeah. Uh where it seems you’re talking, you giving advice about relationships. Mhm. Uh, and people seem to don’t want to take advice from anybody that’s not married, that’s not in a relationship for 20 plus years, been stable. Why do you feel you’re one of the best to give advice on relationships? I mean, because I’ve seen all sides of a relationship. You know what I’m saying? I’ve been married in long-term relationships for 10 plus years, a couple of them. I’ve had uh kids. I’ve had long-term girlfriends. I’ve been on both sides. So, I can speak on it. Like, it’s like you being in the NFL, you can speak on it. Yes. Like, I can speak on being. Even if I’m not married now, I can speak on it, right? Cuz I was married for a long time. Yeah. You know, and I been engaged and I’ve had girlfriends and like I just, you know, I see my perspective the way I see it and it ain’t for everybody, right? You know, I mean, I try to speak for everybody, but you know, everybody different, right? I just go off a lot of my experience, Shannon, and you can take it how you want it, right? You know, but like I’ve I’ve seen it all and even if I didn’t experience, I’ve saw other people Yeah. experience and I learned from them and that’s why I feel like I’m more than qualified, right, to give, you know, relationship advice. You once said that marriage is for poor people. It offers no advantage to a man. Yes. So under that premise, would you get married again? That’s a good question, man. It like Yeah, I’ll get married again cuz I’m getting old. So you want a hospice wife? You want somebody to take Yeah, I’m getting old. Sh. Yeah, I’ll get married again. I mean I mean it just it just I hear too many of the horror stories like especially for like I said old people and poor people like think about a man successful rich man like I hate seeing stories like she got 70% of his wealth and and she got the kids and she like feel like you stripped a man down of his dignity. Yeah. Like I hate seeing them stories man. It just drives me nuts. And it’s too many of them, right? And the percentages ain’t in our favor, right? As successful, not only black, just people in that upper tax bracket. It’s just like no advantage for us. And I’m not saying don’t do it. Just, you know, wait till you get old or you broke. Did you Did you and your wife grow apart because you had, like you said, you’d been married 10 plus years. You got kids. Yeah. Uh uh uh how did you come to the conclusion you’re like, you know what, babe, we need to part ways, man. You know, I think it happens over time. It wasn’t like a sit down one sit down. Yeah. Yo, there there Oh, no, no, no. There’s a continuation. Just, you know, and it happened in retirement and a lot of players, you know, get divorced in retirement and it’s just like it’s a whole new dynamic that happens. Yeah. Because like it’s cool when you in and out. You miss each other. you’re going through whatever you’re going through and you can deal with it and the and the you know she get to get on go to the game highlight herself and she in the limelight still too but then the lights cut off and now you coming home telling the kids to do this and changing the whole family dynamic and it causes a riff. You know what I’m saying? And it just like it causes like like you start side eyeing looking at each other like no I I wouldn’t allowed this if I was home all the time, right? You know what I’m saying? And then it just causes a divide. And I just think like kind of like that’s what happened. Yeah. You know, the divide and the communication wasn’t there in my situation and you know, and it happens to a lot of us. Yeah. You know, it’s hard to make that adjustment after you done playing be home all the time and then and then now you home all the time. Then you just get up be like, I need to go somewhere. Right. And now y’all you arguing because you got why you why you go you ain’t got you ain’t got no practice. Yeah, you ain’t got no going like now cuz you just so antsy. You used to traveling every week. You used to leaving every week. You just like I don’t know how to sit down and then now that’s something that’s a conflict. That’s a conflict. And you know if I had it to do all over again what I know now, I would have been probably more sensitive to their needs, right? Instead of being selfish. You know what I’m saying? It was selfish. Well, you got to be selfish to be great. Yeah. Yeah. And I You got You hear LeBron when LeBron talks Mhm. LeBron says, “I denied a,” you know, and the first thing he says is family because when you when you what you and I did because family is the closest. That’s why we mention them first is that we apologize to them for being selfish. You’ve got in order to be great, you got to be selfish because you’re going to miss recital. You’re going to miss certain things. You’re going to miss this because guess what? Oh, I can’t go play in the game because I my daughter’s recital. Well, I can’t do to celebrate my anniversary because I gota I gotta miss this game. So, because I got to do my wife’s anniversary. So, you become selfish, right? The greater the player, the more selfish he or she is. Right. I’ve said this. I said, I’ve took those traits that made me who I am and it affected my marriage. You take it in a relationship, it’ll ruin it. Yep. It affected the relationship. Yes. Cuz now you seeing it all the time when you home. Yes. selfishness, doing what you want, just just so many things and like you just and they might let it be, they’ll let it slide when you got a basketball, when you play basketball, you play football, you play a professional sport, or you have a business. But when you retire, say, “Oh, I want to spend more time with the family.” Yeah. That ain’t what you, man. You ain’t been there 20 years, right? And then you going to come in there and think she going to let you change everything how the apper how the system work. Yeah. Ain’t going to happen. I didn’t know what the system was. I tried to come in there and change it. So, but you know, to this day, you know, everybody cool. Yeah. That’s great. You know, kids is we everybody get along. So, you know, like it’s an experience. Yes. You know, and you go through it, you learn from it and and you move on. Did you see the story where uh the guy sent the the the young lady $200 and she sent it back? She sent it back to him. Say because she knows her worth. Was it 200 or 2,000? I know my worth. If a girl sent me 20,000, was it? It was 2,000. 2,000. Yes. He sent her $2,000. She said she says, “I know my worth. We’ve been dealing with each other for an extremely long period of time.” She sent it back to him. That’s a red flag, Shannon. Anybody can use two racks. I’ll take two racks right now. I can use two racks. I mean, damn. Like, what you mean, right? Like, you you like girls like that, you you stay away from them because like, oh, you must used to be dealing with who you dealing with. Yes. Who you dealing with that’s doing that? I want somebody to throw, well, such and such used to do this for me. Well, he not doing it no more, so why he stopped doing it, right? You telling me who used to do it. I want to know why he stopped. Right. That’s the question right there. That’s the question. They they quick to throw that up in your face, though, P, man. And that’s why I be trying to tell him, “Look, you got to It’s It’s messed up right now, Sharon. It’s messed up. The game The game is messed up.” P, you be giving some good advice. You told him say, “Look, a hardworking man is building something, leave them pretty girls alone. Get you a five. Get you a solid six. Keep it real. Get you a five. Solid six.” Get somebody that’s humble. Yeah. That don’t require all this. Cuz nine, 10, that’s a lot of maintenance. That’s a lot of upkeep. And see, and I and I and I so I always have to go back. I’m not gonna tell her she a five or six, right? Like we all know. I’m let her give her a nine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you know the public know you a five or six. Look, but I’m going to make you feel like a 910. I’m a six. You a six. Yeah. Let’s go. That’s That’s over 10. We good. We good. Yeah, man. Somebody humble who don’t care about Man, let’s go get a sandwich on a Friday night, right? like and not, you know, and not be tripping. We ain’t got Look, I understand that, you know, occasionally we going to go to the Mastros. We gonna go to State 48. We we’ll go to the nice establishment, but that is not a prerequisite. You don’t have to walk on the red carpet. You don’t have to be seen. We don’t have to post everything on social media. Oh, look, you know, my soulmate, my rib, and all that other foolish because you you hiding things. You understand what I’m saying? I feel like this the prettier girls are are like that. They’re caught into the the clout. They’re caught into the the nice things because we feed them that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, because when like if I’m not constantly feeding her ego as like a beautiful woman and a beautiful That’s why I say that you’re on your phone and somebody is and that’s what you want all the time. And I can’t keep up with that. Yes. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. Yes. I know. I can’t keep up with that. Hey, it was one like you had to tell her all the time like that you would babe. You’re amazing. right? You you you are you awesome. You this or that. But I’ve never I’ve never I’ve never been in a situation like that when I had to constantly reinforce who she was and who she is and what type of person and you know what type of body and how she looked and everything. I’m like damn I felt like I was the full-time cheerleader. Yeah. I had I mean they constantly getting it. So they need it. They want it from you and the minute you don’t I’ll get it somewhere else. Yes. Or some somebody will. Like it’s hard to keep up with that man. man. And I hate that that it’s like that. Like, and that’s why I said, man, let me I’m I’m going to go this route, you know, somebody who a little more humble, who who actually like appreciate, right, the comments. Well, do you know you shot the shot at Ruby Rose? I mean, I mean, the truth, the truth, he normally call game. The one thing I know about truth, he called game. It go in. You hit that bucket. You pulled a step. Pulled up a 30. I had to I had to catch myself. I had to catch myself. Cam just went viral. He says he wants to know a girl’s past. The man that she slept with. Oo, I don’t be wanting to know. I don’t either. No. But but how about this here? A ma uh a woman’s past is as important to a man as a man’s future is to a woman. Would you agree with that? A man a woman a man a woman’s past is important to a man as a woman as a man’s future. As a man’s future is to a woman is cuz you want to know if he going to bet that bread. He going to be he going to be he going to be racked up. He wants to know how many how many bodies you got and is any of them in the NBA, NFL or MLB. She wants to know you going to the NFL, you in the NBA, you going to play in the major leagues or you going to be, you know, you going to be work CEO? No, I don’t know. Cuz most of them girls, they chasing them that’s already in there. So his future is important to her. Yeah. Yeah, that is true. That is true. Damn. I don’t want to know the past. I don’t either. I don’t really care because you like me asking you can lie. Yeah. I’mma go more time I spend with you, it’s gonna show. Yes. Yes. You know what I’m saying? It’s going it’s always going to come out. Yeah. Like anytime I’ve ever caught a girl up on something, I didn’t have to look. Yeah. It was just like, damn. What’s this? It’s right here in my face. Like it’s We go somewhere. How you knew everybody? Like damn. That’s my boy. It’s right here. Like it’s right. How many boy you got? I give you one. Can’t give you both, my friend. That my Yeah, you go. It’s going to come out for sure. Every time. It never fails. I never had to look, right? I’mma just chill, you know, and then it’s going to Oh, for real? Okay. That’s what it is. I see it. I see it. You have You have daughters and you know they hear you you know my daughter like daddy. You got to say that. You got to talk like that cuz I got I got, you know, my daughter’s in their 30s. Mhm. And so they asking me questions, you know. I said, “Baby, I’m in the entertainment bit.” But can you find another way to entertain daddy? Right. Like, damn. Right. How difficult is it to have that conversation with man? That’s difficult Shan because like you know I had to deal with the situation uh you know the ESPN situation where the live stream the live stream you know I had to deal that was difficult situation because it was just like damn and and and you know even doing this truth after dark I say some things you know about you know relationships or black women and everything and and I’m like you on this like you know at this point I’m entertainment but then it’ be some hard conversations you when you make the mistake, it’s just like, man, you know, I’m human, but it don’t change the fact that I’m still your dad, right? And it I’m I’m I’m human. And I know you probably look at me like a superhero sometimes and and all of that, but you know, I make some mistakes. Yes. You know, I’m just like anybody else out here. I make some mistakes. you know, some I I I regret and I say some things and you know, they might not come off a certain way, but like some of these things I believe, you know, and don’t you want a dad that’s truthful and stand on his words and and I know they not always sound like the best thing, but at the end of the day, when I’m long gone and everything, the one thing you can say about me is like, you know what, at the end of the day, dad, he was solid. He was solid. He was he spoke his mind and he didn’t give a damn what people said about him, right? And I know sometimes it may be hurt or or something like that. But hopefully some of the traits I give and my opinion and the things I do and say can carry over to make you a strong person because I didn’t I block out the crowd noise. I block out the negative. And I hope that my kids can do the same thing, right? You ain’t going to always be the most popular person in the room. You ain’t going to always be liked and that’s what’s going to build your character and make you stronger and that’s what it’s done for me. You still gamble like you used to? You don’t gamble no more, huh? No, not that much. Like once every six months maybe, right? Like if I go to Vegas, hang out, but No, not like I used to. If because you try to f you try to fuel that competitiveness cuz we competitive. Yeah, for sure. And that don’t that never leave. And that’s why we missed the sport. What can we do to rep replace what we done for the last 20 years? It’s hard. There’s no replacement. None. There’s nothing no replace that bus ride, that plane ride, that locker room, that chemistry, that camaraderie. Ain’t nothing. You just got to find what makes you happy. You know, I’ve been trying to like for me it’s pouring into my kids. Yes. you know, the more time I do with that and just like try try to stay busy, try to get the key is when you retired is try to get routine. Yes. You know, cuz we we are we’re so routine cuz we know the structure. Okay, I got practice at this time. So, I need to get my workout in at this time. I need to do this. I need to eat. I take my nap, get on the bus, go to the stadium. I’m going to play the game. Everything is so structured. Structured routine. Now, I got all this time on my damn hand. What the hell am I going to do? You got to you got to get your When you first retire, you like I got free time. I can just do whatever I want. I can travel here, go. That’s the worst thing. And then so now since I’ve been back in routine, I’ve been good. I got, you know, I get up, I work out. It’s the first thing I do. Uh, take care of the mail, make run my emails, kids, sports with them. Like, it’s just I got a good routine going do my podcast and this and that. So, I got a good flow right now. So, but it’s hard, you know? Right. It’s hard. What’s that? What’s next for Paul Pierce? What’s next for Paul Pierce, man? You know, I’m getting older. My kids are are are I got a couple kids in high school. I got a young one. Uh I’m just trying to still go out here and build out my media career. You know, I’ve been doing that from day one since I retired. I stepped into the media field and I enjoy doing that, right? You know what I’m saying? I I enjoy talking sports. I’m I enjoy talking life and relationships and I’m just trying to build on it. You know, I’m trying to be a positive influence. I’m trying to have a respectable opinion and you know, I really love what you’ve been able to build, Shannon. You know, a lot a lot of us in this culture, we look up to like a lot of things that you’ve been able to build and admire and appreciate, you know, cuz we got a lot of things in common and and you know, I think it’s important for all of us to support each other. Yes. and and that’s it. Just try to be a positive influence, take care of my kids, and you know, eventually ride into the sunset. The truth all, ladies and gentlemen, [Applause] that’s good. All my life been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price, want a slice, got to roll the dice. That’s why all my life I’ve been grinding all my life. All my life been grinding all my life. sacrifice hustle paid the price want a slice to roll a dice that’s why all my life I’ve been grinding all my life [Music]
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Paul Pierce, NBA legend and Finals MVP, joins Shannon Sharpe at Club Shay Shay for a raw and unforgettable conversation about his life, legacy, and lessons learned. Born and raised in Inglewood, California, Pierce opens up about growing up surrounded by basketball greatness, idolizing Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan, and using being overlooked as fuel to chase his dreams. From high school standout to Kansas Jayhawk, he recalls the early challenges that shaped his toughness and the mindset that would later define his career.
Pierce reflects on the night that nearly ended everything — when he was stabbed at a Boston nightclub — and how surviving that moment changed his perspective forever. He shares how it taught him gratitude, focus, and a new sense of purpose that carried him through the darkest stretches of his career.
From there, “The Truth” details his rise with the Boston Celtics, the early rebuilding years, and how Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers trusted him to lead a struggling team. He talks about the franchise-changing trades that brought Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen to Boston, how that trio built chemistry overnight, and what it took to turn the Celtics into champions again. He calls Garnett the most intense player he’s ever shared the court with, explains the brotherhood and tension within that locker room, and opens up about the fallout with Ray Allen after his move to Miami.
Pierce reflects on his greatest on-court battles — going head-to-head with LeBron James, trading shots with Kobe Bryant, and matching up against Dwyane Wade, Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony, and Shaquille O’Neal. He breaks down the mindset, preparation, and pride it took to compete with some of the most dominant players in NBA history, explaining why Kobe’s intensity stood apart, why every duel with LeBron felt like a heavyweight fight, and how playing alongside and against Shaq showed him what true power and presence looked like on the court.
He then shares thoughts on the modern era — from Steph Curry revolutionizing the game to Kevin Durant’s unmatched scoring ability, and how Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are carrying the Celtics’ torch forward. Pierce also opens up about life after basketball, reflecting on his departure from ESPN, lessons learned, and what he’s discovered about himself since retirement.
Finally, Paul Pierce speaks on legacy — how it’s not about stats or trophies, but about influence, resilience, and truth. From Inglewood to Boston, from surviving tragedy to raising banners, from doubters to destiny — Paul Pierce’s story is one of perseverance, redemption, and greatness earned the hard way.
#ClubShayShay #paulpierce #nba
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Club Shay Shay is a weekly podcast hosted by Shannon Sharpe – 3x Super Bowl champion, member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame and co-host of First Take on ESPN. Each week Shannon will sit down with athletes, celebrities and influencers to break down, analyze and discuss the latest headlines in sports, pop culture and everything in-between. Get on the VIP list at Club Shay Shay NOW and never miss an episode!
Paul Pierce | EP. 185
Club Shay Shay
https://www.youtube.com/c/ClubShayShay
48 comments
I loved it.
Riverside is still considered the greater part of Los Angeles. Don't ever disrespect Cheryl Miller again Shannon
Lakers fan and Kobe fan here. Paul pierce is nice man. Can’t deny it. But uhhh he ain’t the best pure scorer lol
Was this before or after the DUI arrest? 🤦🏽♂️ That aside, Paul was a great player. 💯
Basketball boring without bron playing
Shannon, your bud LeKing ran to his friends to play with him cuz he thought they would dominate the league. The Lakers and Celtics were built by management and you can’t point the finger at the players for not winning. But when players conspire to force themselves out of contracts (AD) or manipulate the organization to play with your friends, yes, you can point the finger at the players (namely LeBron)
Unc go make sure he give Bron his praise.
This is a waste of time listening to this, two guys that should be on the block talking drunk talk.
Shannon Sharpe is a heavenly goat
Jordan pushed his body harder to win than Lebron. That's why he had less time and that's why he has more championships.
So excited for this❤❤❤❤
This 🥷 said Shai 🤣🤣🤣
Kobe put PP in a wheel chair 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
You need to stop PP😅😅😅😅😅😅
8 minute mark Paul making sense
The truth still the coldest nickname in sports
Thank you Paul for letting people know Kobe made pau.!!!
Im taking Larrrrrrry and Kevin before PP, c'mon now 😂😂😂😂😂
3 hrs 😂😂😂
26:00 that makes sense. Paul game is kinda ugly. He just get it done.
@6:54 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It makes sense
Truth, I’m a true Lebron fan , but nothing but respect for you. You are definitely one of the goats 🐐. Thats a true fact.
I had to come watch this interview 😂🔥
I call 🧢
Dude said he’s the best pure scorer in NBA history!! 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ But not in the top 75!🤦🏽♂️
Yessss sirrrrr! UNC got my dog P on here! That's what I'm talking bout Truth baby let's go!
Uploading this after Paul Pierce gets a DUI is criminal
P is one of my favorite players…but stop the 🧢 bro…Ray Ray did everything he could for Boston and they did him dirty with the contract,..and I don't blame him..still cooked in Miami too
Carmelo Anthony was a great 3 level scorer as well
Shannon know alot about different topics, great interview bro!! Mix of humour and knowledge
Legend, respect ❤❤❤
Everybody listens at work!!🤣🤣
Paul Pierce one of the realest doing it
Shanon talk about LeBron more than LeBron wife talk about him
The Truth!
Shay starting show hate tor jordan
The TRUTH!!!!
if were talking footwork not really to athletic, but can score from anywhere melo is probably one of if not the best pure scorer
Awesome interview!!!👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🔥🔥🔥🔥
Finally we got the Truth on the show! Yupppp
This is probably the best interview Shannon ever did respect to the 🐐 Paul pierce
W interview
Here in Massachusetts we ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Paul❤❤❤
The truth Paul Pierce 🏀
Please stop he not even better than Melo. The Truth was cold asf but not better than Melo. KG and Ray Allen saved his career. Yea I said it!
All love Club Shay Shay interviews but I would appreciate it if they put timestamps .
One of your best interviews this year 💯
Larry and Kevin were drafted by Boston. Like LA drafted Magic and Worthy. Cleveland old owner Ted Stepin gave the Lakers their draft picks several years prior. That's how LA was able to draft James Worthy. Those 60 Celtics teams were all draft picks outside of Bill Russell, who was drafted by the Hawks and traded to Boston. Those teams were built. Those aren't superteams.