Wild on 7th – Ep #117: Pierre-Marc Bouchard, Brian Rolston, and the Light at the End of the Tunnel

Wild on 7th – Ep #117: Pierre-Marc Bouchard, Brian Rolston, and the Light at the End of the Tunnel

This is Wild on 7th, your favorite wild podcast. Did you guys see this? This is unbelievable. What is that all about? Kanger, get in here for the real thing. Like, let’s get weird. Maybe I blacked out trying to figure out what was going on. Doubt, worry, fear, cuz that’s what we’re breaking the mold on here. Welcome to Wild on 7 presented by Pilot Games. We’re here until it’s here. Hey, welcome back to Wild on Seventh, your favorite Wild podcast. I’m Ryan Carter with my man John King. We got a pretty good show here today. Well, actually, uh, might be a little bit of a Debbie Downer show. It’s It’s tough when you look at the standings right now and and where the Wild are at, but we do have some pretty fun alumni joining the show. Uh, so we’ll get to those guys later, but before that, let’s make sure we thank our friends at Pilot Games. You’re out, you’re having a good time, grab a tablet, play their games. You could win some dough. Uh it’s always a fun night too when when you hit those pull tabs, you got a little extra cash in your pocket. It can take your night to a whole new whole new level, whole new place. Uh and when you play those games, not only do you have the chance to win, your community wins, too. Uh they support youth sports and it’s a win-win. Yeah, it’s just a just a win-win. So, um thanks to Pilot Games. But Kanger, we’re What’s the We in the pregame show. How do you start this one? At the pregame show yesterday, I went from the booth down to the desk for the first segment and cuz usually good. You got a little fleck in your sport coat. It like requires a conversation now. Like uh like we got to go back and forth on some of these issues cuz it’s hard to just like make a point and then move on with, you know, video or a graphic or something. Like you got to talk through some of this stuff. It’s the broadcasters equivalent of a closed door meeting. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah. I thank you for that. It didn’t necessarily help with the way the shark game started at least. But um yeah, I think we got to be real today. We got to talk about uh what we’re seeing. Um and I think I I I want to, if you’re okay with it, um we’ll set the stage here. We’re going to look into we’re not a numbers podcast. This is not a this isn’t the athletic. We’re not going to have a a syllabus and, you know, references to everything we say on the podcast, but the number story is very interesting. um that you were just playing out for me before we were recording, which was essentially if you let a computer play the games, we’ve now got 10 games. We have a sample size, and if you basically let the the analytics tell you if you were going to win or lose hockey games. Uh you basically did that. This is almost like when you were a kid and you’re picking your team to play, like I’m going to be the Blackhawks with Jeremy Ronic or I’m going to be the Northstars with Dino, right? Like like it’s money ball. Yeah. Yeah. And so like what are you money? We continue to let’s go deep in the numbers. We continue to trust the numbers. Uh this is what the outcomes will be and that that’s what money ball is and you don’t make your decisions entirely based on that but I think you can use it as a tool and unfortunately here’s what it is. The wild uh in terms of expected goal differential. So in terms of the goals that analytics say they have or should score versus the goals that should have been scored against them which is essentially expected outcome cuz when you get more goals you win the game. So so you’re you’re basically saying this should have been the outcome. And so this idea, this narrative, we deserved better, which actually I think we’ve had that last night, but we haven’t had it a lot. But we deserve better, you’re saying, if you look at the numbers, that’s that’s exactly what that is. And what that means is on the games where the coach says, “I liked the way we played. We deserved better. We didn’t get it.” That’s you had a positive expected goal differential, you got outgoalied or something or you ran into a hot goalender. Yeah. So bad bounce. Yeah. And it’s not a perfect algorithm cuz it doesn’t take into effect a couple of things. How good the goalender was or is or you know the scoring chance that is created if if it’s on the tape of Capri off or somebody like Trenan, right? Um it doesn’t factor that stuff in, but in the end it it talk and illustrates a picture on what was created and who deserved to win the game. Of the 10 games, the Wild have had a positive goal differential in just two of them. And it was the the game that they most looked like the Rangers, the the Minnesota Wild. That was the Rangers game. Actually, I think as a fan, uh the only game from tape to tape where we played like Minnesota Wild Hockey. Of course, they scored in the first minute because we’re motans, right? They haven’t scored a goal at home in 10 years. text thread. Well, that’s the mold we’re trying to beat though. Yeah. And then like within Go ahead and let it out within 53 seconds, right? We give one up. But, uh, awesome game. Like that Ranger game. I was like, “Yeah, I’m uh I I was I you know, I was watching it on my rooftop, you know, and I got I went back in my window into my home after that.” No, I I uh that was good. Um, and then you’re saying there’s another one which and it was San Jose which now and that’s that’s only I could dig deeper into it. They have an expected goal uh I suppose in favor of like point4 goals. So not a lot, less than a goal, less than a half a goal, right? But but it’s interesting. We just watched Hines press conference sitting here and um and credit to coach Hines. He’s he’s he’s very he’s calm and he’s kind of he’s working through it, right? You know, some good things, some bad things. We had some hard we battled back, but also we shouldn’t have been battling back. Why are we doing this? Why are we getting behind early? But I think that was a game where you know you God, you know, you’re in such a hole. The worst was the the twogoal bounceback when like I know re Reeves played on this team, but when he scores, this has to be like when I get a goal in beer league and everybody’s just like, “Oh, this is the worst.” He’s just laughing and smiling and uh pointing and oh that’s just like salt in the wound when when Revo just pops one in right on the doorstep. That two goal bounce back when we had clawed back. So you’re really saying twice twice we deserve 10 by the computer says the the Wild should have won and if you take away which is about where we’re at. This isn’t fair cuz a game is 60 minutes. But the Wild had a different third period than they did the first and second of that San Jose game. Yep. And if they didn’t tilt the ice, that would have been nine of 10 games that they’ve had a negative goal differential, expected goals differential. And the St. Louis game, this I want you to talk about this a little bit. So, we win the first game of the season 5 to nothing. Yeah. And and if you watched it, you felt like you had your hand in the cookie jar. Um it didn’t feel quite right. We didn’t really play wild hockey and and you know, Robert Thomas probably could have had 10 goals. So, you’re telling me the computer, even though we won five to nothing, says we computer says we should have lost by a goal and a half. Should have lost the first game by a goal and a half. That’s unbelievable, by the way, that you can uh talk about stealing one. Um I actually wish I think the whole season is different if the Columbus game is first on the road and then like we like there’s something I I think that St. Lewis game was was a bad thing. Mhm. I agree. I I don’t know why. I I think just kind of like it made you feel that everybody kind of felt like like comfortable. Um and I I don’t I’m not saying any players are taking things for granted, but there was just it just gave you a false sense of security. And uh I think the most troubling thing for me as a fan, and I’ve said this word a couple times, uncharacteristic. That’s that’s really a bad word, right? Billy says you need character and characters to win hockey. I’m telling you, we are playing uncharacteristic hockey for the Wild. It doesn’t look like us. We got our defensive end has been a mess. We got guys standing freely at the back door. We got guys not closing gaps. We got guys not chasing. Um, you know, 97 has a tough night last night. We’ll have to get little skill plays that probably most of the time you don’t notice but everything was going wrong but that playing uncharacteristic hockey and it’s key characters playing uncharacteristic hockey that’s the other big part of it it’s key pieces uh like making the mistakes that they can’t make you know and I think that puts it puts Hines in a tough spot you know because what what are you gonna do to Capri off like that’s That’s why the guy makes that much money. Okay, he’s got a couple turnovers and the puck ends up in the back of the net and the puck’s on his tape more often than anybody else’s and he makes better plays more than anybody else. Like he’s he’s going to lead the team in giveaways. He is and he should. But they went in the back of the net and when it’s tough like you that was like for him I first of all I’ve never seen a play like the one where he just retreated to the wall. I it was just a it was a full moon for 97 yesterday. Like it was I mean and this is not this and also the battle back from him. I mean he was on the walls. He was digging pucks out. I mean you could tell he was trying to get back what he gave away. He did end up with three assists, I believe, including, can you imagine passing that to Rossi? When you have an open shot and this guy’s computer is like, I know I have 100% a shot on net, but if I can thread this back to Rossi behind me through a defender, it’s 100% goal, but I mean, most any other player does that, you’re screaming shoot the puck because they don’t even get a shot off. The puck doesn’t even get to Rossi. So, he is going to I I’ll take the good with the bad. There usually isn’t very much bad with 97. He’s going to give some turnovers out, but last night was tough. How about that? Let’s just We’ll talk quickly about the pass, too, Russy. How about the margin of error? He beats Dear. It’s insane. He’s got like almost one knee on the ice cuz he’s got the big guy like dragging on him and then Dickinson’s coming barreling down on him and he sees Rossi out of like the back corner of his eye and he slides like an inch and a half past the back skate of Dickinson right on the taper. He does it all the time. Like he does it. He’ll do it far side to Baldi on like a power play. It just looks like he’s throwing the puck and it’ll be right on the blade. It’s his margin of error. Like this is why that’s why those plays yesterday, they’re they’re really the same play. Yeah. You look at even in the um when he got the goal, I think he gave an assist to Baldi. This was probably in the preseason, but he does a little a lot of little tap passes where he just bounces the puck to someone at high speed. We did it to Hartman on the power play in the middle there. one timer on Hartman’s tape. And so, so last night a couple of those, you know, he the puck bounces off of his um stick at the blue line, gets behind the guy open, wide open for a goal. Um I mean, so it’s just it was tough. Full moon for 97. I don’t think it’s going to be the norm, but No, it’s not the norm. But um back to why it puts coaching everybody in a tough spot. And and Capri off, he can make those plays, you know, and and he does make them. And when he does, that’s what makes the difference more often than not. But Hyan’s like, “What do you do now?” Yeah. He’s got a lot of no. Yes. But you like, this is why these like these stretches of hockey are so hard because you have a coach sending a message that you have to like tighten up. Don’t turn the puck over. Start strong. But you have your your top guy turn the puck over. But you can’t take ice away from him. Give him more. But you take ice away from your fourth line guys. Like it’s it’s just like a catch 22 for Zeve’s similar. Yeah, it’s a catch. Very similar, right? So a catch22 for coach. It’s like what do I do? Like I’m delivering a message that we’re a group that we’re a team, but I do have to treat everybody differently. Like Capri off can have three turnovers that are directly end up in the back of our net. And he’s going to he’s going to play more minutes than any forward has played in a game all season long. Like it’s for everybody else. It’s the opposite. It’s got to be. Think about it. Everybody else other than maybe six guys in the NHL, their minutes go down. Capri Soft does it, minutes go up. And and it worked. Well, he got back every every point he gave away. He got back himself wasn’t enough. It’s a hard message for a coach to to put together to get a team to claw out of something. It’s just a and that’s what makes these things so hard. Well, imagine parenting. Imagine you have your your couple daughters, right? Hey, uh, you know, we we don’t, you know, we don’t talk with our mouths full. This is the way we do it in the Carter family. But then you got one kid sitting on the table cross-legged, you know, with, uh, with pop rocks. I mean, like, what how do you, how do you like manage the messages? Now, these are grown-ups. They’re pros. Of course, they know 97 has different rules, but um I think you feel it with Zeve as well because, you know, you look at that game last night, it reminded me of like a a pee-wee tournament game where okay, we’re playing 4D, that’s it. We’re playing our guys and tonight it includes Vinnie Hinestroa who is I I top speed must have been 110 mph last night. He looked unbelievable. Jojo, you know, whatever, whoever he’s picking. Um, he’s riding those 4D, but Bam sneaks in there for a shift and gets a point. I mean, this is a guy he’s got. Yeah, he’s a Boo goal. Yeah, a Boo goal. He’s got, you know, he’s he’s on pace for 64 points as a rookie. Okay, that’s no joke. When’s the last time we had a 64 point defenseman? You know, I mean, this is a guy that he’s not playing 25. So, I wouldn’t even say he’s playing great. No, but but I mean live by the sword, die by the sword. And we had fall on the sword with Faber this week, too, which we can get into. But I I mean it’s it’s uh I don’t know. It’s got to be hard as hell from a coaching standpoint because uncharacteristic hockey from key players from the from the characters. Yeah. The character guys playing uncharacteristic that’s a nightmare. So like Capri off EC the final 20 minutes of the San Jose game I think was the first 20 minutes we’ve seen I’ve seen like EC at X best like he won every single battle won every face off won every wall play in the net front tipping it like he extended so many plays San Jose couldn’t get out of their zone like he was a beast and that’s what we’re accustomed to seeing. And I think that if I if I’m walking away from that game with any positive, it’s not that the Wild climbed back and got a point and this and that. It’s that I think a couple of guys that flipped the switch played in such a way that they now remember and it’s easy to lose and it’s hard to find again like the edge, right? Well, confidence saw the edge. Yeah. And the confidence will confidence is everything in hockey. That’s literally the most important ingredient. It’s It’s everything. Watch that celebration after that goal. It’s like jubilation. Like he emptied the tank. Like it’s so funny you say that because I was thinking about the season. You know, we’re 10 games in now. And I was like I thought E had like no points. That’s how I felt he was playing. I’m like this this has got to be a guy on the top of the list that we need more from. Actually, he’s kind of been chipping in the whole time, but he hasn’t been full strength e. Um, I mean, hang that tip goal in the Lou already. It was unbelievable. Um, and the faceoffs are so key. Um, but I you’re right. You need the So, you think the guys that turned on yesterday are probably E uh Faber? Yep. Um, I mean, I saw him uh I think Spurgeon turned on a little bit, too. He’s still minus two, but um he looked more confident with the puck and making plays and skating than I think he has in any of the previous games. There was an urgency, especially the start of the third. It was I don’t know what was said. I love I would love to. I mean, that had to be a kick the garbage can moment because or maybe you don’t need to. They’re pros, but like something happened when that third period started. That’s the part that’s frustrating too though, Carts. We know they can do it. That’s the part that’s been the hardest. Okay. So, so how do you how do you outshoot someone? What was the shots in the third? It was like 20 to four or something. The attempts were like Yeah, the temps were like 30 to five or something. And and we’ve seen it in the Ranger game. Ranger game. You got to you got to have 35 shots to beat Eigor. It’s not even about being even. You have to have more shots cuz the goalie is so good. And we did and we won and we came back from one down minute into the game. Um, so we know they can do it, but uh that’s why it’s been and that’s probably what the players are feeling too. It’s like, God, we’re better than this. Mhm. We know we’re better than this. Let’s go back to St. Louis where that was fool’s gold. Yeah. You beat a team 50, but you on paper or I should say on the computer, you’re you’re minus a goal and a half, you know, and so you maybe felt like, oh, we can just ride the power play. And actually, I think if I haven’t talked about this on the podcast, Hines was talking after that game with us and he didn’t love his top group’s five on five play in those game in the early games and specifically the St. Louis game because their first shift was on the power play. So they got and I think they scored on the first one, but their their puck touches were with their feet stationary. Like the game slows down on the power play and you you need every power play coach is going to tell you you need to have the same urgency that you have five on five and that’s the ticket. And it’s true, but sometimes you can just coast into a power play, make a couple of skill plays, and the puck’s in the back of the net. That’s kind of how things were going for the power play early, you know. So, their first couple shifts were on the power play and dusting the puck off and feeling good with their touches and then they go on and win 5-0. And then the following games you’ve got, you know, opponents where you’ve kind of got to get mixed up in the meat grinder. Like, you got it’s got to be tougher. It’s got to be harder. And I think that they now know and they felt that they were there, but the outcome in St. Lewis just led them to believe like we don’t we don’t have to dig as deep or maybe they didn’t know how deep they had to dig to get there. I think last night they realized that you got to dig deep uh the rest of the way. Um I uh I want to ask you one just general question and then I have a I want to do a thing called hard questions with you because I I need you to help me. Um but so there’s been these moments this year uh the Trenan uh open net. Okay. uh the EC uh goal opportunity against Philadelphia. Um Terasinko has had multiple moments like this right in the goal mouth where it’s a margin of error. You know, can you get that puck into the net? Actually, Carell’s had some misfires on one-times and stuff as well. How big a deal are those little moments of the difference between almost and and sometimes it’s unlikely guys? You know, Yakov Trenton isn’t a guy we’re always expecting to score, but he’s got a completely empty net on that play. Doesn’t work out. Overtime that that could have been Brock Faber to Erikson. You get the second point in Philly. You’re feeling completely different about the road trip. Are those just things that balance out throughout the course of the year? Is that just a That’s the difference between a good and a great team. I think your hope is that it balances out. It’s a difference between a confident and an unconfident team. Yeah, that’s an illustration of of thinking. Uh getting the puck over the pad. You know, you got the second time and you got to flip it over. I think you can look at it like this, Trenion. You’ve got it on the back end. If you’re just if you’re just playing, you trust your backhand. You’re like, the net’s open. Boom. It’s in. But you’re like, I’m going to be sure there’s time. wrap the whole body around and it rolls off your toe. Like there are times where you legitimately do try too hard or you want it too bad. And I I think that the Wilder in that rut right now once you find confidence, like you said, it’s everything. And that’s the reason like you don’t overthink it. Every pass that comes to you is just settled down and and handled perfectly. Like watch Brock Faber’s puck play in the Utah game versus in the San Jose game after he gets an assist. He like fans on it, you know? He’s losing pucks. It’s under his blade. Like he’s making like passes even into space where he’s just like staring at the puck, making sure he’s moving it where he thinks he should move it versus just like playing, you know. And I think as the points came in the San Jose game and he started to feel better about how he was playing there, there wasn’t a single mistake made with the puck. He was an animal. No, there wasn’t a single one. And that’s just confidence. And I think right now they’re under pressure and stress and um that’s a big part of it. Now the hope is yeah, that stuff evens out over the course of the year, but confidence and I think I said this on the broadcast last night too, but puck luck is earned. Like that third period like for Erikson act that was puck luck. Great tip. Great tip, right? Unbelievable tip. But to some degree, every tip is lucky, you know. But they earned it. Earned it with a faceoff win. Earned it with a battle to the net to be there alone. To be in the right position. Um to have, you know, your stick in a spot where you can tip it. to have a goalender that is now all of a sudden like you know under duress looking everywhere you know feeling the pressure like you earn your puck luck and you earn it by throwing the puck at the net and working hard and battling and doing it time and time and time again among other reasons and I think in the third they earned it other games throughout the season when they’ve been on the bad side of puck luck they haven’t they haven’t earned it or the other team has done a better job of earning it and that was Utah Utah had puck luck. Logan Culie’s backhand slap goal from from like armpit level horrible through I I still don’t know even though we had replays where it went in like did it go under Gustoson’s arm like he’s like how did that find daylight anywhere? So the the puck luck has gone against the Wild, but you earn it and I think in the third period they started to earn it and uh we’ll see if it continues. So I wanted to do a thing hard questions. Um so this would be, you know, we’re an official Wild Podcast, right? But I think part of our role is like what would be the things the fan base is asking, right? So are we a perimeter team? Okay. Cuz I was shocked when you showed the home plate graphic last night. I think it was Capri shots. Um, it seems like we’re skating a lot of circles in the offensive end. We’re not getting the snot bubble, Ericson goal, the Marcus Felino goal, the Ryan Hartman goal in the down in the paint. Yeah. Um, are we are we playing more perimeter? I think so. And why is that? And how do you how do you change that? Don’t know why. Uh, don’t know why. And actually, again, we’re trying to ask coach and people questions to see if we can get an answer as to why they’re struggling, why things are struggling offensively. And I don’t think that there’s a a perfect answer. You have some guys that are individually struggling struggling. You have uh some situations where they’re possessing the puck like the Wild for example against Utah. Gosh, I think I I’ll look it up, but through two periods and maybe it was three, they had the exact same amount of offensive zone time and maybe even more, but they were out chance like 13-2. Mhm. Chances to score and what requires a chance is Yeah. the interior of the ice. It’s that home play graphic. Well, that was a game. That was a game where Jojo passed the one. Um, and they went back to the bench and and you could just see Carell be like, “Nate, brother, shoot it, man. Please shoot that puck. Please.” Which is the exact same play he made last night, passing it to Rossi. But I think he’s kind of like for you. Just shoot it. I’ll get I’ll get the rebound. But yeah, but that that’s an illustration that they’re holding on to the puck and they might be in the scoring zone, but they’re not attempting shots at the net. That’s a perfect example of it. Um, so maybe they’re not perimeter as much as as the data tells us they’re perimeter, they’re just not shooting it. Or maybe when they’re shooting, they’re missing the net. And oh, a lot of missing the net. Yeah, lot last night. I was going The second question would be um game starts. Okay, we’re getting into this pattern where even if we’re not in a hole to start um we’re being outshot two to one by the end of the first period typically. Um, you played uh what’s that about? Uh, is that So, now is this at home? What’s that? Is this at home, you think, or just in general game starts? I think in general, even the Ranger game, we gave up a goal in 53 seconds, right? I I think I think this I think you guys said it on the broadcast. I think you’ve given we’ve the Wild have given up the first goal seven or eight out of 10 games, something like that. So, what’s with the starts? Is that a I’m I’m assuming these are professional hockey players. It’s not about a Herb Brooks speech to start the game. um what’s going on? What when you were on coaches will coaches will analyze this and they they’ll change routine. Yep. So sometimes they think it’s routine, you know, and you might pregame routine. Yeah. Okay. Totally. Totally. And it might be an individual thing that they have to adjust pregame routine. So let’s say goalender gives up a soft one right away. They might they might go to the goalender be like, “What do we got to do to change your daily routine to be in a different spot?” And you know, whether that’s timing, whatever it is, they they want to somehow manipulate it so they’re ready to play and focused, ready to play when the game starts. And sometimes that’s just the change you need instead of tactics. It’s let’s mentally get oursel in a different spot at different times of the day and see if it doesn’t produce a different result. So that might mean flipping meeting times, changing from if you have your meetings in the morning to putting them pregame or vice versa. uh you know their practice schedule, when they pregame skate, is it optional, is it mandatory? Just changing up daily routines sometimes uh can help with that start thing. I’ll go back and if there’s a fan listening, gosh, check this, but I think it’s been a couple of years now, and this will be interesting that the Wild have switched at home from pregame skates at Tria versus XL Energy Center. And X XL Energy Center now Grand Casino Arena um used to be a place that was like what wilder 70% at home. Oh, just unbelievable. Yeah. And now it’s closer to 50 over the last couple years. So where are we pregame skating now? Pregame skate here at Tria. And you think it would be better if they went back to No, that’s just something I think that should be analyzed. Okay, that’s when you talk about change of routine. Yeah. What’s your home? When did when did the home record start to falter? Oh, I like this. We need a crack Cracker Jack producer, you know. When when did that happen? And is it is it something different that change in player routine or you know I played in Jersey? You know what I like about that? if that is an insight is everything about Tria is designed around comfort. This is your home. This is where you take care of your body. This is where you practice. This is where you eat your salmon. Grand Casino Arena is is the coliseum. This is Gladiator. This is where bad things happen. This is where you got to dig deep. I think it’s interesting if you pregame skate at at Grand Casino to say, “Hey, we’re going into the Lion’s Den. Hey, Winnipeg’s coming in. Sydney Crosby’s coming in. Nashville’s coming in. Are you ready? Yeah, I would I would definitely pregame skate at at Grand Casino. And I have this thought solely for this reason alone. Uh when I was playing in New Jersey, we had the practice facility and the game facility, both ranks in uh well, in the same building. And actually, Jersey now has they’ve they’ve gotten rid of their game rank. They just use the practice rink for game and for practice or the practice locker room because it’s bigger. Yeah, it’s more spacious. But what I remember is the game rink at Credential Center was it felt special. It was tight. It was small. We were always together. There was no room to like be on your own. And um when we were there and we practiced in the morning, even though it was the same building, it was 100 yards away from another locker room. It felt different. Well, it’s your stage. Yeah. Grand Casino is the stage. Tria is your home. Tria feels like a home. You know, you got kids, fans holding their babies on their shoulders, school groups watching you practice. You’re in an empty building that holds 18,000. I’m pretty sure you know what’s at stake. Yeah. And I don’t know if that’s a thing. I like that. It’s something to think about though. Um, you should talk to Hines about that. Ask him. Let’s go back to pregame. I’m sure the guys will love that. Public number one, Ryan. But that that is true. And I’ll stand by that. That we had a hundred yard walk between two locker rooms in New Jersey. Yeah, I’m bought in game one felt different. This is like vitamin D theory. This is a good Ryan Carter theory. This is good. I’m on it. So, I got a one more hard question. Hey, hold on one sec. Hus wants to jump in. Okay. So, I ran You refer to yourself in the third person. I guess you were Hus, right? Okay. Well, you can’t see me. I’m behind the screen. Um, I ran into John Evans last week. He’s longtime maintenance man around GCA. He’s been here since basically day one. And he said this exact thing. Really? Yes. What did he say? He said the pregame skates are over at Tria and something’s been a little off ever since that started and and the visitors pregame skate at Grand R Casino Arena. There’s there’s for sure something to this. Okay, third question. This is just proof that we are going to ask the hard questions. Um are we caught between generations? Okay, so you look at the NHL now. Even look at the league’s marketing, right? It’s all these young tick- tock kids, right? It’s Will Smith, it’s Celibbrini, it’s it’s um Lane Hudson, it’s whatever, you know, uh Jackson Lome. Are we kind of in this? Is there like a a change happening? Even the Blackhawks, right? They’re going to be messy as hell. Sam Renzel running the power play, Frankie Nazar, you know, this is going to be 54 games. It’s not going to be easy to watch. It’s not going to be like that Ranger game, right? It’s not going to be like structured hockey. Is there a changing of the style of play in the NHL and we’re kind of in this different era with our group? Uh I mean Zeve is kind of this type of player, right? Is you’re going to make some mistakes and are we kind of caught between Good question. Somebody asked me this on a group text. I was like, “Oh man, that’s not a let’s don’t just float that on the group text.” It’s a good question and one that we’ve addressed on the podcast before. I don’t know that I have enough time to formulate a concrete opinion on it, but uh maybe but we’ve Yeah, but we’ve we’ve talked about this before in that it’s a copycat league, but it’s also like cyclical like it changes, you know, where you go from a team like Tampa that did it their way. They they changed things up. They’re like, “We’re going to score with four lines.” Tampa’s in the same spot right now. Well, yeah, but they’re losing like all their games. Well, but it was Okay, so let’s just go back a little further. It was Anaheim 2006 with just an unbelievable checking line. I’ve got two scoring lines and I’ve got I’m mean and I have a the best checking line in the game. LA did the same thing. Yeah. And then Tampa says, “All right, well, and Colorado, we’re going to draft some of these young kids and we’re going to out we have to outskill them.” Yeah. We have to find a way to score more goals than them. And then they start winning and now it is possible that we’re in this era where it’s like an arms race of skill. Is that that’s what it feels like to you or it appears like? Well, even last night I’m watching this game and we’re coming back and I’m thinking uh I really was like, “Okay, when it was tied, I was like, I don’t think Matt Baldy has a point.” And this guy’s been so consistent. You know, he’s trending towards, you know, 90 points, right? And I’m like, God, if if somehow Bolds can get one here because a lot of other guys are and he played good, but but then I was like, Celabbrini, it’s going to happen at some point. This guy, this guy is really, really good. And you get the 5050 in the zone. We’ve had the puck for three minutes. They can’t even make a change on overtime. As a matter of fact, the only guy that managed to get on the ice in overtime for the Sharks because they never had the damn puck was Mlin Celibbrini. He he wins the race and and the rest was history for the second point. But it’s and when you see him even on the benchs, he’s like he’s like it’s like he’s in high school yearbook class, you know? He’s like, “This is fun. We won we won the game.” To finish, I mean, it’s like a kid. to finish the answer. It does feel like the teams that you brought up are in an arms race to get more skill because it feels it feels like it’s a like skill is the number one commodity. Matthew Schaefer, you have to be able to score, right? And we I always look at it from a different lens too, which is competitive advantage. What what competitive advantage can you find against that? And then maybe that’s where tactics come back where maybe Erikson isn’t like your number one center now. Maybe you say, “Ek I I want I don’t care if you get me 15 goals this year, but I want you to be Sammy Pollson of the Ducks in 2007 where it’s a shutdown guy where where you your whole job is to make sure Mlin Celibbrini does not score tonight. It doesn’t matter how they run their lines. I’m sorry I can’t have you on the power play in the event that he plays that line right after a PP. So, you can’t be there. But your job is, and Jacqu Lamra, we had him on the podcast the other day, he’d be like, I like it. You know, like your sole job is to make sure this group doesn’t score. See, I don’t mind that cuz there’s opportunities for that competitive. Are we caught in the middle? No. There’s an opportunity someplace to find a competitive advantage. And what that is, I’m not sure exactly, but it’s up to management and coaches to figure that out. But no, the Wild are not caught in a spot where they’re in they’re they’re in a place where they can’t win games. Oh, I agree. And and actually, for the first time in in a couple years, we actually have some of these skilled young guys coming into our lineup that But you notice Logan [ __ ] is a perfect example of this. This is a guy that passed up a $9 million deal, and you’re kind of like, what? and then he’s got, you know, five goals in five minutes right afterwards. Um, and so I I think you’re right. It’s it’s how do you counter that? Maybe you’re off. So, the Wild have built a culture around hockey players. This is it’s it’s about we’ve been a solid franchise, not a dynamic franchise, a solid franchise all the way back to the La Mer, the Misfits, the way that team went. We we when we play our best even for the last since we’ve been doing this podcast it’s a two to one victory over Carolina that everybody lines up and goes that’s wild hockey good defense opportunistic played the right way. That is not the copycat model right now. That is not what people are doing. It’s different. So you you we either have to make a choice and say, “Hey, um when we do play these high-f flyier, young gun, sloppy, messy teams, Chicago, San Jose, Islanders, Montreal, we got to line up our chess pieces in such a way that the hockey players are going to beat the Tik Tok kids.” Yeah. And and the hard part is that that can’t be on a game by-game basis. No. So it has to be like do you can you do this and then can you do this and win a seven game series? Like that’s also what’s tough about the NHL is what gets you to the playoffs is not what wins in the playoffs. Yes. Because what wins in the playoffs looks like that Ranger game. Yeah. 100%. As a lot of won’t even make the playoffs. That’s where Vegas has it. Or Tampa in the past. Tampa would be like, “We don’t care if we finish eighth place.” Yeah. And then they they they wouldn’t and Florida same way. Yeah. They wouldn’t care cuz they’re like, “I think we have what we think can win in the playoffs.” Um, not an easy question to answer, but there is there are ways to find competitive. You did you did a good job. So, the the the last one, um, I want to talk about leadership. Um, I was watching the San Jose game and I was in a pretty dark place early on. Um, and, uh, I found myself thinking, you know, who’s who’s like, who’s the guy on this team, you know, that’s that’s the the head of the snake, right? And I was just kind of watching it and and you saw some of these guys um turn it on last night. Um but you think of like even uh Nick Felino in Chicago, right? This is the guy that’s always going to be on the TV, positive or negative, and maybe he guides you through that process. He’s older. Um he’s he’s not one of the young kids, right? Um our group is very interesting. Uh you know, Marcus is out right now. Um, uh, you know, Spurgeon had a little bit of a slow start, the captain. Um, Brock went out of his way to kind of do kind of this Maya Koopa. Um, played well last night. Um, but very visibly open. Um, and we can talk about that more if you’d like, but Carrill, uh, you know, uh, a Russian guy, uh, communicating as he can, doing what he can on the ice, but not going to be the guy. Um, so I I sometimes find myself uh wanting to to have the person um that’s guiding me through the process as a fan. As a fan and actually for me that person has been Faber because whether you like it or not when he talked that’s how the fan base felt the same way like I don’t feel very good right now. And he said the same thing about his game. And then when you’re watching the San Jose game, you I felt a kinship to him going, “Well, this guy’s going to spill the beans tonight, one way or the other, he’s he’s going he’s not taking a backwards K. He is going to he’s going to gut himself.” Now, he’s the first guy to see Celibbrini score. He probably broke his stick on the the net, you know, at the end of that play. But I I just Zuki being gone I think is a huge part of this because in their darkest days the last couple years Zuki on the mic is unbelievable when it’s hard. He’s the first guy in the room to be like yeah we are not doing what you know I I I really think it makes a difference. I think Zuki helps Carrill in that way in terms of communication. I I don’t know. What do you see? Is that a I don’t really think it’s a thing, but it’s something to talk about because really the most visible vocal person uh as we’ve gone through the shadow of death here um has probably been Faber, you know. Yeah. And I don’t he doesn’t wear a letter, right? No. So, no. So, the question is who who like who’s leading this club right now or who’s the guy that that I I kind of am like uh it seems to change. We have a lot of uh leaders by example. Eric Snck, no one’s going to say the guy doesn’t play hard every night, but he’s also not going to be the guy in the media scrum pulling arrows out of his forehead and and guiding you through the journey. I think I think what’s missing right now is probably not leadership qualities. Definitely not leadership qualities, right? Or leaders. It’s I think what’s what’s if anything is occurring on a leadership level that or things that they’re lacking is one of those guys and I think I think what you’re talking about we’ll second to this is has any player in any of the first 10 games like worn the Superman cape have have any of the leaders been the guy that has said jump on my back I’m I’m not losing this game from goalender to defense to forwards. You know, sometimes you have to have guys that have had those performances in recent memory. Yeah. To have voice and to have the confidence to say something. You said it last night. Valstead’s pumping his fist after the shootout win was probably the closest we’ve had to that feeling where somebody was like, “Not tonight.” Now, that wasn’t a perfect game. No. But but he was he did a stage dive. He he jumped off and hoped somebody caught him. I mean, he that was really the moment. Now, the Ranger game is the best we’ve played, but the Volstead game was the closest to what you’re talking about. We’re like, “This guy was not going to be denied, right? Not tonight. No, I don’t care if it takes a shootout. Not tonight. This one I’m getting this one for us.” Yeah. And earlier we talked about like uncharacteristic hockey from key characters. You need those key characters to have those Superman moments. Like we’re we’re like if it’s your backup goalender, that’s that’s great for the backup goalender, but you need it to be you need it to be your number one, right? And you can have a multi-goal game from Joe Hansen in a comeback effort and that’s great, but it it means more and is different if it’s Capri off. Yeah. Right. and Brock Faber, I think, is the closest one. Like, let’s say Spurgeon had three apples last night and he’s on the top power play unit. That things that that changes the story of last night’s game. And I think the the leadership group, they need to find a way to have a game like that. And that’s a lot of times where Marcus comes in. And Marcus being banged up misses is missing right now, too. Cuz that’s usually where he comes in and he does something and he’s vocal cuz he knows his role and he’s like, “All right, I know my job for me to wear the Superman cape tonight. I have to make nine hits and and I’m going to own their net front. I’m probably going to embarrass somebody on a hit. You know, if somebody fights or wants to stand up to me, I like we’ll do it.” like he he can wear the cape in his role, you know, and he might chip in the goal that night and missing him is hard, too, because the way that he can wear that cape is different than anybody else can, you know, and um I I think uh that’s what I would say about leadership is what they’re missing. If they’re missing something right now, if there’s any questions on what that is, it’s not about comments. It’s not about who’s speaking. It’s who’s going to be the first to do something special and not be denied on the ice because then their voice will be heard loudest in the locker room. And that’s just the way they feel. That’s the way hockey players are. They cannot be rah rah, let’s go do this without it being supported with what they’re doing on the ice. Yeah. And I I when I was talking about it, it’s really from a fan’s point of view. um the Faber uh kind of uh being as open as he was, it was like as a fan you go, “This guy is just as frustrated about the start of the season as I am.” And he would be the first one to tell you, “Yeah, I got a couple second assists against San Jose. You know, we we only got one point. He’s not It’s not like they won the cup last night.” But he started to feel like himself. Um, and I just I need some of that to as a fan to kind of help you through the dark times, right? It’s like who’s the that’s why I always watch games late. And even a guy like Hartman, this guy I I know we’re at least we’re a fan of him on the program, but the the hit, you know, I’m thinking he’s going down the tunnel. Uh once they sort out the penalty, he’s walking right back to the bench. like and uh and I don’t know, maybe he is banged up, but the guy is just he has his ways. He’s crafty. He knows he he he knows how to do what Ryan Hartman needs to do to help us. And it was just it was just great. I’m like this. Yeah, of course. You know, yeah, you’re not going to be seen until they sort out if it’s a five or a two or nothing. Ended up being nothing. And then he’s on the he was onen was on the power play like I think a minute later. Have you seen the meme where where like LeBron gets fouled or something and he’s acting like he he’s hurt then he stops for a second, opens like one eye, looks sideways to see if like the ref makes the call. Like I think Hartman had a little bit of that to him last night too where he’s laying on the ice and it hurts but he’s he like stops like look real quick like and his leg got it still hurts. He’s just uh he’s just he’s crafty that way and everyone else to do that. I got to go back and look. I think when the athletic trainer comes out, Hartman’s like, I’m okay, you know, which is a good thing because it did look it it didn’t it had game speed. It had the elements to be a very scary hit. Um, and I I will give Orlov credit because it happens super fast. He brought the leg in. Talking about scary, it’s that time of year. Uh, and if you need to load up load up on your uh Halloween treats, um, I would try to be a full-size candy bar family. It sends a signal to your whole community that you’re on top of your game. I would roll into Cub and I would get some full sizes. You know, I didn’t play in the NHL, but I can still give away a full-size candy bar. You’ll get teenagers coming into your house if they hear you’re a full-size house. Don’t be the house with the lights off for Halloween. Turn them on bright and proud. Roll into Cub. Get your supplies. Get your apple cider. If you’re a dad like Carter walking around the neighborhood with a wagon, they also have some liquor stores attached. They do deliver. They’re one of us. We love them. Cub, let’s just And what’s your ad, Reed? Let’s That was good. Let’s just talk through that. That That was good. Uh that might be a first, actually, where he set himself up for one. That was good. We’ll see. The balance is now off. And you guys will see that. That was me passing to Rossy behind. He passed to himself through threading the needle. That’s what we call a look off. Uh but uh real quick, let’s just talk through that because if you get the small funsiz candy bars, how many do you give away anyways? It’s not like you give each kid one. You throw like three or four in there anyway. So you might as well you might as well buy the fulls size candy bars so that you get the street cred that goes with it. You’re giving the same amount of candy away. Giving away full sizes is the least amount of money you can spend to feel rich in in almost all aspects of life. I would say secondarily is just drinking great reverse osmosis water is another way. God. Yes. Yes. I’m Ryan with our friends at Aquarius Home Services and it is it is holiday season. Whether that’s Halloween, we got Thanksgiving coming up. But bring back a little extra magic fulls size candy bars or you know a nice discount for our uh Aquarius Home Services. And they’re your official authorized independent Kinetico dealer. So, they can get you your K5 reverse osmosis system right there for uh your your kitchen. Drink that. It’s beautiful water. But you can also have worry-free water that makes every moment shine. You can have sparkling dishes, softer laundry, refreshing, worry-free drinking water that we mentioned. And right now, you can save up to 25%. This is what I’m talking about. Kanger on a Connecticut whole home water system. Uh schedule your free water analysis at aquarius homeservices.com. Aquarius earning the right to be recommended. Nice job. Do you have one? Awkward silence. Awkward silence. This is I have to pass it to myself. Yes, I can do it. Uh, so if you were uh constructing your perfect Halloween night, how would you do it? Um, well, holiday season, since we’re on that, is all about having friends and family together. I think if that’s the case, you never know. What speaking of when was that holiday storm? A handful of years ago. Was that like 1990? ’91. 91. You don’t want to get caught in the ‘ 91 storm with everybody at your house handing away bigsized candy bars, feeling rich, and then having um a leak in your roof or things fail on you. Our friends at Wild Construction, uh they can take care of your roof, your windows, your siding. Again, right now, uh I think it’s getting past roof season and their schedule’s probably booked up, but uh they can fix your uh your roof next spring. They’ll get up there now if they can and assess any damage, get you on the schedule for uh the spring and when they can, but currently they they’ll do siding, they’ll do your windows. Uh they’re great people to work with. Wild Construction, they’ll make it happen. Check them out. Wildconstruction.com. Yeah. And if clunky ads today, I thought it was good. Mine was good. So the uh if you’re doing full size 10 games into the year, uh I got Baldi as a full-size guy. uh 97 even with you know a little bit of trouble last night. Zeve, what’s amazing about 97 is he’s still like what third in the league in points. He’s still trending to 140 points. You got uh Zeve uh chipping in offensively. Rossi being consistent. Rossi uh E still doing it. Jojo trending way higher than expected. Terasco still chipping in here and there. I I guess we don’t know exactly. He’s trending to about 40 points, which I think we’d be happy with, but feels like there’s more in the tank there. And Hartman, um, certainly finding more consistency than, uh, than last year’s regular season. So, those would be the full-size guys. I want to talk to you about Broaddin for a second. So, our defense has been struggling. I got to think this is a great compliment to Jonas Broaddin. Like, I haven’t I just I don’t even notice him at all, positively or negatively. So he must just be being Jonas Prod. He’s only minus two. He’s got a couple points, but I he he must be playing normal. Yeah. I mean, right. Like like like you know, you think about it, you’re like uh some openly some guys have been talking about their struggles on the back end, but um somewhere in there the Swede is just doing sweet things. Is that accurate? See, I don’t know what the analy Yeah. Is he in your full size list? He probably would be just because uh I mean he’s not scoring points, but he seems to be playing his game. I’m I’m guessing because it’s I was an offensive lineman, right? If no one notices you and you probably are doing your job. Now, we’re not winning hockey games right now. So So there’s that. Yeah. Yeah. And you’re right that that that is something I think I think offensively he’ll get back to being noticed and making plays and and jumping out there and using his skating. I Bill Gar has talked about his experience missing a training camp and how he felt like he was chasing it an entire year and why it was important for him to get Capri off contracts done before training camp in the past and he doesn’t want hold outs and even Marco Rossi right he understands that you miss training camp you never catch up or at least he feels that way and Broaddin for the most part missed training camp but and he’s still different than everybody Allison that he jumps right back in and is solid. It’s like you you don’t know that he hasn’t been uncharacteristic. Say that he hasn’t been uncharacteristic but missing training camp. I think he’s probably still chasing it a little bit. Yeah. Trying to he’s playing catchup a little bit like offensively. I was looking through clips the other day too and he’s had opportunities to make plays offensively and pop uh and the the four just haven’t found him. There was one two games ago or three games ago the New Jersey game where Yurov got the puck in the neutral zone. It was like D to D up to Yurov and Brodine had jumped up the weak side and Yurov just had to leave it in space in the middle of the ice and Broaddin would have been flying up the ice with it and then it would have turned into like a probably twoon one but didn’t see it and ended up putting the puck in the corner and the plate died. So there are opportunities for Broaddin and I think once everybody finds their confidence and we there was more of it in the third period. We keep referencing this third period against San Jose where you notice the D in the offense. Middleton jumped in, Spurgeon was involved, Faber was involved. You know, the other thing they were doing, Carts, that I loved is they were helping the puck get out of our own end. That when we’ve been struggling this year, guys are rifling the puck off the boards into the neutral zone, right back to the other team, and they’re just coming right back in on us. it’s chuck a puck and and it has been some guys you don’t expect to do that and and some of the people um that are newer but it I mean this last night it was it was crisp first passes at least in the third let’s get out of the zone if I have to skate a little bit Faber Zeve Spurgeon was doing it as well like you said let’s go let’s I’m going to we got good defense let’s get this puck out of our end and get rolling maybe I’m going to give you a pass in the neutral zone you know Um, so I I thought that was a big change. Uh, and if he can start adding uh I mean really Spurgeon had a nice year offensively last year even though he he was out half the year. You know, if these guys can start activating, we know Jake just missed a couple yesterday where it was just I mean Oh, that one where he came down the slot and just narrowly missed the net. But he’s a guy that it looks like I don’t know that you can say that he’s struggled, but he hasn’t looked the same. Like trying to figure out maybe the partner, the chemistry. Well, they’re switching them all the time. Yeah. The minutes, the side, whatever it might be. But he instantly looked like ah in a comfortable spot and ready to play last night. Like it looked like the Jake Middleton that we’re accustomed to. Would you agree with that? Yeah. He was one of the four they were they were riding. Um, I’m going to look up real quick cuz on Dcoring, we’ve been talking about a lot on the broadcast, but through nine games, the five like nothing. Yeah. Five on five scoring, they had four total points. Broaddine had two. Yep. Um, and then last night, I’m going to look through it real quick and see what our D had. Faber had three assists. I’ll have to double check. Buham had one. Oh, no, he didn’t have an assist. He had a goal. Yeah. uh protein Hartman, but that’s when we’re playing our best with back. So, you got four points from the back end. So, can we uh can we look ahead? Um so, they always say November, you know, Thanksgiving, you got to know what you are by Thanksgiving. It’s not always true. We saw St. Louis rise from the ashes. Other teams have done this. Um but it doesn’t get any easier, folks. Uh, we got the Jets the night this podcast comes out. We got the Penguins. And talk about a team that’s doing it the other way. These are vets just playing great still. Sydney Crosby’s drinking vampire blood. They’re they’re still doing well. And then you got the Canucks and the Pred. So, we got four games left on this this homestead. Um, I mean, we really got to start getting the two-pointers. Um, yeah, and we’re in seventh place right now. Uh, we got eight points. Um what is it Yogi Bear that said it gets laid early. It sure does especially but that’s what I was trying to make the analogy especially in these three point on the broadcast like it daylight savings is coming and that’s what Thanksgiving is in terms of you know your playoff opportunities for the NHL like you lose if you don’t start winning these games you’re going to lose an hour and before you know it it’s going to be dark before you’ve got an opportunity. Oh, great metaphor, right? Yeah. Yeah. Spring forward, fall back. Yeah. Yeah. We don’t want to fall back. So, you know, you’re going to have to surprise somebody against Winnipeg. Hopefully, you got to deal with this young man named Sydney Crosby. Uh Canucks and a and a better PRS group. Um brunette seems to have figured that out more so this year with that room. Um, but yeah, I mean I I don’t know what does it need to look like by Thanksgiving because this whole podcast is designed around chip in the chair. Get me to the playoffs. Get me past the first round. Bring the Stanley Cup home to the state of hockey. We’re here till it’s here. I mean, we are not in a good spot 10 games in. Where do we need to be Thanksgiving that you’d be feeling good? Yeah, I don’t know. 500 I I think 500. A little above maybe. Yeah, 500. But so, um, I think the West there’s a chance that the West is last year’s East where it’s crazy because the West is so good, but I think that there’s a chance that there’s like so much parody that they just beat each other. The gold differential is super weird. I’ve been looking at this, the if you look at the Eastern standings cards, the bottom bottom teams are only like minus5 in the gold differential. If you look in the west, you got lots of teams in double digits, including the Wild where, you know, the San Jose’s the they’re just there’s just and I don’t know if those are empty netters or what’s happening or the West is beating up on each other like you said, but yeah, we still don’t quite know because you play every team twice, right? So, we don’t know the difference between the East and the West. It would seem to me that the East is a little tighter and the West seems to be a little bit wild west right now. Yeah. So last year the east what did they need to get into the playoffs? It was like 90 91 points and in the west it was 95 y um so I think it’s possible that that flips this year and with maybe a little bit more parody in the west but there are there are a lot of teams that str are struggling. St. Louis is really in our boat too. I was looking at that. Calgary. Calgary was Calgary was an Erikson goal away from making the playoffs last year. And they’re a double digit on the goal differential as well. Yeah. And they’re the last team last team in the West right now. Five points through 10 games. So where like if the Wild can dig themselves out and be at 500 by Thanksgiving and boy that’s that’s not that hard. That’s two wins in a row, you know? Like please, dear God. Yeah. It’s just you’re not out of it if you’re at 500 by then, you know, but if they can be better than that, you know, two, three games above 500, that’d be terrific. And it’s not out of the realm of reality by any stretch of the imagination. So, right now, the Wild are in the wild card, seventh place in the West. Chicago’s holding the second wild card spot with 10 points. The Wild have eight. And we’ve played one more game than them. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s even worse. Yeah. It’s worse, but it’s like not Yeah, we’ve seen Chicago. Yeah, it’s not. Vancouver’s right there. They’ve got 10 points. Like they’re tied with them in 10 games. Like you’re you’re literally one win away from being in a playoff position. Y as bad as it it feels and as bad as it’s been. And we left two points on the board. I think we left a point last night. We left a point in Philly. Um those would have helped. But yeah, I think so. That that’s a good goal. I like to chip out the season a little bit into sections. Let’s get to 500, maybe a little bit above when we’re eating our turkey and having the tryptophan. Um because do you think Billy makes a move? You know, Billy’s got a little money in his wallet. Um we know he’s a he’s a gambling man. Do you think uh he would pull the trigger sooner rather than later to add an ingredient to the room that changes everything? Well, I don’t I don’t know that there’s if he can yet. I don’t know who the sellers are yet. I mean, it’s still playing out, but yeah. And I don’t know who the sellers would be either. There’s speculation that Calgary would be cuz Calgaryy’s struggling and they have some pieces and would they maybe just change their tune entirely or they thought that they would be a playoff team and just be like rebuild. Yeah. Not rebuild, but just be like this is a year where maybe we can get a top pick and that will expedite and help us for years to come. Yeah. Pick up the kid Gavin McKenna. Yeah. And who who knows? But to to answer the question, I I I think this is when mistakes can be made. I think it has to be a savvy trade like and it has to help you in some specific area. So I I think part of the Wild’s problems right now are if I were to ask you what’s what is the Wild’s problem right now and how do we fix it? I would say it’s uh it’s on the back end. Um, I would say we got to play wild hockey. U, which actually is good because in theory the people that are good at wild hockey are the wild hockey team. Um, I really see it on the the back end. Um, and then I guess five on five scoring. Yeah. So, there’s different elements to it. So, there’s not just one thing you can fix. The PK hasn’t been good enough. The power play was really good. Then it cooled off, then dry, now good again. five on five scoring hasn’t been there the whole year. You haven’t had your key guys playing like they should play playing better than other teams. Your defense has struggled and um now you’re you’re trying to balance some new guys with some veteran guys and that’s not working. They’re just and then you have like a begoian injury and they have key injuries right now. But this is what happened last year. No Zukarella, no Bosian. Couple veteran guys that Sturm. Yeah, Sturm. It happens all the time. That happen to be, you know, lynch pins and without them things are falling apart. So, I I think you’d have to be able to fix if you’re going to make a trade. You’d love to be able to fix a couple components of that with a trade, you know, and maybe somebody on the blue line is, but they have Damon Hunt there. Like, he could be the answer, but he’s he hasn’t he hasn’t played like going to go get a Dman. I don’t know. But it’s hard to get a D man that is going to be like And what do you what are you looking for? Top a top four D man. Yeah. The D is not the problem. I don’t think once they sort it out. Yeah. But yeah, and it just it just it just becomes challenging because right now I don’t think that there’s an area of the game or a thing that you can pinpoint and say this is the problem. Let’s fix it. The most glaring one would probably be for me that they need a scoring winger. They went into the year with it with that need. They they get Terasenko, but Zukarella being down, they’ve missed that. And I think it’s shown and the top two lines have been shuffling. They’re trying to find like consistent offense on the uh at even strength and it hasn’t happened. and are Boli and Capri off playing together, you know, do we put AK on a different line? I don’t I don’t know that they’ve had the same combo for more than two games at a time, right? So, if they could find Zuki coming back is almost like a trade. Yeah, you could look at it that way. But I I just don’t know if Billy would make a move right now because I feel like there’s a higher probability that a mistake is made and then a problem is fixed. Yeah, it doesn’t feel right. It feels like you’re just saying, “Let’s just throw something. Let’s throw throw something new in there and see if anything. And sometimes you have to teams have done that historically where you just have to shake things up to get people’s attention. So you trade a guy out, you know, and you what you going to trade a locker room guy out, a fourthline guy out right now? Like they’re not the ones that are the problem. So you’d have to you’d have to trade away a core piece to make a statement. And you know Yeah. No, I think Yeah, you’re right. Um are we doing trivia? Yeah, let’s get this in there couple. You are up by the way. I you I think you forgot you you got two and I have one. You got uh uh Willie. You got brunette. You forgot about that one. You got uh Willie Mitchell maybe. And I got or I got I don’t know. You got Clutterbuck and maybe I got Willie Mitchell. I don’t know. What do we got us? All right. Kicking it off. Uh, this person was known for their pranks, dry humor, and they could lighten a Jacqu La Mer practice. Wow. God, you tried to trick us with flower on the but he took it away, but no one uh no one snapped it. All right. In 2001 2002, he had a careerhigh 11 points, seven goals. This is old school. 11 points, seven goals. Yeah. Okay. This player led the team in pms for each of his four seasons with the Wild. I’ll buzz in. I don’t think I’m right. I think I’m too early on this guy. I’m just gonna say Boogard. [ __ ] Well, how many question? How many? This is a tough one. Now you’re gonna Well, it’ be great if you don’t get it. Yeah, I might not. This is a good one to follow up. He fought some of the most feared heavyweights in the NHL. He fought Probert, Lorac, Grimson. Oh, I know who this guy is. Oh, I know it is. Is it Johnson? Yeah. Bingo. [Laughter] So I I thought when you when does Boogard come to the team? Well, he was there with Jock, but he was there more than four seasons. That’s why I think that one went sideways. Dang it. But he he never played with Bugard Johnson. He was kind of our original fighter. Yeah, I could have held out and maybe done better. Well, I I was on I was thinking Bard with you, too, but when he said just four years, I was like I think Buggard played more than four with the Wild. Yeah, he did. That’s a bad Johnson with 61 fights in 227 games with the Wild. That’s a lot of fights. So, I initially I was tracking He’s a tough guy. I was tracking Dman. Were you thinking Dman? No, I was initially thinking some sort of weird uh like a I know this is way off, but like a like I remember John Madden scoring all these goals, but 11 points was too low. I was trying to think of a guy that had like an anomaly where he just had a bunch of like like Middleton had like 10 goals the first month of um last season, but I but I just I couldn’t figure it out. the fighting confirmed this, but it said he was the first captain for the Minnesota Wild on the rotating captain. He wore a C in one preseason game. That’s great. And I wore a letter in preseason games, too. And you better believe I’ve got photos of that at home. That’s on your profile. That’s your profile pick, right? That’s good. So, that’s good. We’ll have to ask some Johnson questions cuz I like that little prank bit there, too. That one threw me off, but that was fun. But what’s what’s the score at? 3-1. H four to one. I think I think it really is four to one. Hey, just in we’re going to get into some great guests here, but some pretty interesting let’s play hockeyies I thought lately. Like uh that that Shakipi group, the woman did the weird thing in the middle where she was like I mean there’s been some there’s been a lot of energy. Um teacher of the year. Yep. She was the same. Uh, it’s been a lot. Like people are trying like the Let’s Play hockey groups are are trying new things. The vocals are high. The volume is high. I don’t know the I thought the one where they You like a show on Let’s Play hockey. I do because it it kind of makes me uncomfortable. Um the the second one with where each person taking a line. I don’t know if I love it because you’re trying, you know, I I think you got to figure out who’s the who’s got the C, you know, and just let someone work through it because what does it go? It goes say it with me. What are the three lines? I think you can add lib. It’s game time. Yes. So the woman I think in this in the one she was like, “It’s game time.” And I was like, “Ah, what’s what are you doing?” Uh, yeah. I don’t know. I It was troubling. I also a tough loss for golf for football. So I guess uh Oh, I was going to bring this up. I knew I by the way. I was going to bring this up. Lots of feedback on that. Um in a good or bad way. Well, it I I would say the general public certainly nationally. I listened to the Iowa game. I was driving home from Winona and uh and man, these national announcers, people relish in the failure of PJ Flack. You know, they’re on the broadcast going, “Looks like his boat only has one ore.” I mean, that’s not a normal thing to say in a college football broadcast. Like, people were like, “Those are unbiased. People are kicking him when he was down.” And he did take it all in the face to his credit. He was like, “This is all on me. We lost in every single aspect of the game. Um, but yeah, that didn’t age well um for me. Uh, I don’t know. I still like a little uh uh Jimny Cricket uh PJ Fleck um positivity, but yeah, not a real By the way, tough stretch of sports for Minnesota. Tough. The Carson Wentz experiment. Um we’re going to roll into the the Wild having a tough weekend. Uh we’re going to have Gopher hockey getting swept by Duth. Um I mean it has been uh we’re just looking for Gophers didn’t have a first down like until what point? Oh yeah. And then the then the football just going from beating a ranked team to it was 31 nothing. Like I I just turned it off for a minute to get some gas and I turned it on and it was already over. I was driving home to watch some of the game and I was like well we don’t need to do that. we have some air in our schedule. But yeah, tough uh tough times. I think October can’t get over fast enough. Uh hopefully uh November brings us a little more joy. So PJ Flack, I I’ll give him some credit. So he was like this is all on me. He did. He said this is starts with me. It’s it’s starts or is all on? I’d have to look at the exact because if you’re crowd surfing, you’re saying without saying it, this win was all me. That’s what you’re saying. I don’t know. Hey, so if he said if he said post game this is all on me, I I will give him credit. If he says it starts with me, that’s different. I hope he said it’s all on me, but you’re going to have to check. I don’t know if these guys have time. Why do I get so worked up about that? But uh yeah, that was uh I didn’t feel great about that. Um but what are you going to do? Any other feedback on that? No, just you just that they got beat by Iowa. That was it. You’re just I just get a lot of uh you’re on the wrong side on that one. Um you know uh I was surprised. I mean we’re not even talking about I think it’s a genius move. I think I think PJ like this is a Oh, we got an answer. I got a I think it’s a great move. Like he I think he’s perfect for the University of Minnesota. Yeah. I got into it with someone else. I said, “Well, what else are we supposed to do?” I think he has a glass like or he like I I think he’s good for it. But if you’re going to be like beating SEC teams, I don’t know that he’s the guy. Yeah, it’s a bummer to be known for your head coach. Um but at least we’re known for soccer. I don’t know. Nick Savings there. How many guys is Alabama like this is part of it. So this Nick Sar argument to me. He was like a bichc though. He was known for being the best coach cuz how many players went through Alabama that I’m like I have no clue that guy played at Alabama cuz it was about Nick Sabin. But yeah, that’s true. But college football. What’s the answer? What What did he say? Here we go. Found it. Football team that kills three hours of not very good football. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad life. Doesn’t mean we’re doesn’t mean it’s a bad program. We did not play our best when we needed to play our absolute best. Period. uh you know things are going to happen like this especially with uh playing a young quarterback and it’s not all on him it’s me it starts with me it’s make every decision in this organization and but I know there’s going to be some really good times there going to be some really hard times starts with me and throws the quarterback under the bus a little bit beforehand so yeah he didn’t come all the way home oh well I still like you PJ you make me happy you’re a smiley face emoji in a tight suit with a nice bald head But, uh, I don’t know. It at least he’s putting us on the map, better or worse. Um, yeah, that I don’t know. Let’s just get to November. Let’s beat the Jets. Can we just beat the Jets? Do you have a Halloween costume? Let’s end this on a high note. Go to NHL’s Instagram page or us if you can somehow link this cuz it has Mark Andre Flurry’s Halloween costumes over like five or six years. These are This guy, he’s a legend. Yeah, he should be in the Lou and they should protect it a little bit better. Oh, he is in the Lou. Let’s be honest. He I did hear they caught the people cuz he’s such a jewel, you know. Yeah, he’s a beauty. You like what I did there? That was good. Thank you. Yeah, if you haven’t looked at that little carousel, check that out. How good is it? What’s your favorite one? I have to pull it up. I got it on. I saw the one where he was like the tennis statue in uh in gold. I thought that one was great. Obviously, Mclovin was too I mean, it was so spoton. Um, but I I think I saw like New Jersey. Somebody knocked off the Mark Andre Flurry gold paint one. They did. Yeah. Yeah. I’d say top two is I don’t know if this is Joe Dirt. His wife’s pregnant. Um, and they both have cigarettes in their mouth and they’re wearing better if it went back to thinking. He He’s wearing Crocs and a fanny pack holding a bud. I also I just Mclovin is just all time just because he cut his own hair. Yeah, he’s he’s a Halloween hall of famer. First ballot for sure. I tell you what, uh, if you’re still listening, fans, you guys are, uh, you guys are First Ballot Hall of Famers. Appreciate you guys. We’re here to help you guys. It’s, you know, they’re they’re helping us. Sometimes you’re in a tunnel. Sometimes you got light on your forehead. Uh, it’s been a little bit tough sledding here. It has. It’s been an unexpected I I’ll end with this before we throw to the interview. One of my five uh, bold predictions was that the Wild were going to be bottom five in hits. And I thought that was a positive thing. I thought that they’re going to be a puck possession team and they’re going to be skilled and they’re going to play with it all the time. They’re just not going to be running around having to take hits or or make hits to get the puck all the time. Now, there are lots of questions on the physicality of this club over the last week or two because they’re struggling or a lack thereof, I should say. And like that that’s come up, but it’s for a completely different reason. And then um I mean I’m I’m surpris are you are surprised at how the season has started. Didn’t see it coming like this at all. Um but yeah, I do feel like um I really liked what you said earlier. Puck luck is earned. Never really heard that phrase, but um I uh I think that I do think some stuff’s going to start coming back. You know, I don’t think you’re going to hit post for the whole season. I don’t think you’re going to miss yawning nets for the whole season. I think sometimes a puck is going to bounce off your stick the right way, you know, occasionally or it’s not going to go off Broaddin’s boot into the net, right? Like some of this stuff I think is going to start breaking the other way cuz it’s all been breaking against us. We know we have a good room. Um, and I just, you know, let’s get back to putting the character uh and the characters back together and and crossing off the un for uncharacteristic because that’s how it started so far. I like it. I I have access to data rapidly now with a new computer. Guess who leads the league in uh shots off the post? Minnesota. Matt Baldy. Yeah. And by the way, and he’s had a great season. This is individually. It’s Matt Baldy. He’s got five off the post. that’s most in the NHL. We probably have another guy in the top five too, probably for all I know. U but yeah, that he’s been and he’s been really consistent and really good. Um you know, really probably if you were looking at the start of the season, you’d probably say, uh, you know, Matt Baldy has been, you know, our MVP through the first 10. Um so he’s been off to a great start and hopefully it continues. All right, now let’s get to uh probably the best part of the show. We’ve got a couple of great guests, uh, like all-time wild guests. Brian Rollston and Pier Mark Bousard. Uh, thanks to them for sitting down with us, Kinger. Uh, we’ll throw it to them, but we’re here till it’s here. As always, guests are sponsored by Duke Canon. Earn your clean. If you need to make your hair a weapon, if you want the body wash, if you want the cologne like the kids are doing, walk into a Target, get yourself some Duke Cannon. This is the 25th season of Wild Hockey and we got a couple legends here today. We got Pierre Mark Bousard, number eight pick in O2, 593 games, 356 points, CHL player of the year, NHL Youngstar, the Spinama himself, PMBB. Joining him, joining him, Brian Rston, a cup champ, a World Cup champ, a national champ, an all-star, 1,200 plus games, 760 points. The clapper, even if it’s on a shootout. Welcome, boys, to the Wild on 7th podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for joining us. Um, did you So, Russo wrote an article like on the 25th anniversary team and he like the all teams and I had the all style team. Did you guys happen to see this? Because you both made my team there. I had like a line of like some of the like best style and you had like your tongues out like good style tongues out. Yeah, tongues out. Tongues out was pretty good. And uh you I I made a line too of like like big visors because you use the big visor a little bit and um but also I thought like Cliff Ronnie on the line but um let’s talk about style a little bit cuz I I think the slapper was like and you guys both have like and this is cool kind of like signature moves and signature plays. Um how about the slapper like that just come to you like you I’m just going to go down on a breakaway and fire a slapper. Yeah, it actually Jacques Laame Mer actually came up to me one time in uh like a pregame skate and he’s like, “You should really try that.” And uh so you were messing around in practice and he goes, “Yeah, yeah, I was just we were just skating before practice and he’s like, “You should really try shooting a slap shot.” And and that was pretty new at the time. Not the slap shot, but the pen um you know, the the shootouts the shootout was pretty new. And uh I ended up using it on the penalty. I got pulled down on a penalty kill and I was exhausted, you know, because I just had skated all the way down the ice. So I’m like, I’m doing it right now. And that was the first one on Luango, right? So the first one was live. Yeah. Yeah, it was. And then I started using in the shootout a little bit. And did you did you always try to hit the same spot? Uh what were you looking at when you go down? Yeah, it was it glove side low was what I kind of I’d come off the hash mark and try to go there, but uh then goalie started cheating and then I went blocker side on Ozgood and he’s a pretty close friend of mine now and he he gives it to me all the time that I scored on him on a slap shot on the on the shootout. So my notes said that La Mer said he had a dream about you taking a Is this That’s true. That’s true. So, so he just comes up to you at practice and says, “Hey, had a dream last night that you did a a clapper on a on a shootout.” Yeah, that’s that’s the truth. I think it was a pregame ski just, you know, before before you start practice or something. But, uh, that’s awesome. And you’re both got the video game move, right? So, you do the spinama, uh, both in shootout and in a game, which is insane to try in a world of lacrosse moves now, the polarizing lacrosse move. How do how do you how did the spinama happen? And and how do you actually try that in a live game, by the way? That’s insane. Yeah. Well, actually, it was my brother. My brother’s younger than me, four years younger. And uh we used to skate together in the summertime. And one time he was like, “Hey, bro, I got to move for you.” So, you know, we’re practicing. He’s like, “You got to try that spinama.” And uh I tried it couple times and it it worked pretty well. And um I did ask SH though in the production to really you know Oh yeah. Yeah. To uh But you did you show him in practice or something? I did I did and I he gave me the green light so I was pretty happy about it and it worked out well. Yeah. That’s crazy. And so I did some research on the spinner ram and it was like Serge [ __ ] who kind of did it first and he was like a Montreal Canadian, right? And then Danny Seavar did it. So, I didn’t know if there was maybe some roots to you being from that area watching maybe those guys. Yeah. Yeah, I did watch Deny uh Den Savar play from Montreal Canian, but he used to do it like in front of the Dman. Yeah, he did it a different spot. A different spot like it was like a one-on-one and and he pull out that move. So, uh we just tried it in front of goalie and it worked. Now, is there is there technically like a PMBB rule now? Because I they changed the rule now where you have to continue moving forward cuz in that move you kind of almost stop your forward momentum a little bit and that’s when the goalies are like this isn’t fair. Yeah. And if I remember correctly I think it was Brador I think Martin Brador made a complaint to the league or something and uh it was never Marty’s fault. It was that’s a shocker. Well that’s great. That’s great. Uh you got anything there? I want to just start you know where are they now? I’d just like to hear what what are you guys up to right now? Where are you living? Do you ever is this the first time you’ve been back to Minnesota in a long time? I’m just curious. Uh I couldn’t find you on Instagram or Snapchat. So, uh what give us just a little life update with what what’s going on with you guys now. Yeah. Um basically everything that I’ve done after I retired has been dictated by my kids. So, I had, you know, I’ve I had two kids go through hockey and I spent a lot of time with that. Um, I’m kind of those guys have kind of moved on now, so it’s kind of nice. I get my weekends back, but uh, yeah, everything’s been dictated by my kids and um, and uh, I’m involved in youth sports and you were coaching. Yeah, I was coaching Caesars and Yeah. And we came uh, we we’ve come into town a few times because we’d play, you know, we’d play Shadic or we we’d uh, play in uh, tournaments every September. So, it was always nice to come back, see the guys. And are you back in Michigan now? Yeah, I’m in Michigan. So I I got to ask you, you have four sons and these names, you must have had control of the naming as the as the dad. So you got a son named Ryder, Brody, Stone, and Zayn. This is the cast of Animal Kingdom. I mean, this is the coolest. Well, I thought if you know they ever became rock stars, they needed to happen. They You did well. That’s a That’s a band right there. Yeah. My wife wasn’t too thrilled about the first couple, I think, but uh they all they all grew into it and you know like Ryder became a pretty I mean a lot of kids are called Ryder now. So those are I like to think that I started it but probably I didn’t. First ballot names. How about you? What’s your life like now? Where you at? What are you up to? Yeah, I’m back in Montreal, Canada. Um yeah, spending some time with the family. I got uh two daughters, 12 and nine. Um, you know, after my NHL career, I went uh to play two years in Switzerland. Uh, play in the pro league over there. So, it was pretty fun to do some kind of a pre-retirement, I guess. Yeah. You know, 50 games. Uh, pretty good hockey. Turn it over at the blue line if you want. Yeah. It doesn’t matter. The coach be like, I don’t understand. Yeah. You know, bigger bigger ice sheet and everything, you know, having some cheese fondue and chocolate. So, it was pretty fun. So now back home in Montreal and uh spending time with the family. I’m a metan dad now. They’re doing a competitive dancing. So it’s uh it’s pretty uh pretty fun to be around the family. So you’re a dad of only daughters. You’re a dude. That’s what we call dudes around here. I’m a dude. Dad of only daughters. That’s right. Uh you still play ping pong at all? Cuz uh Yeah, ping pong. Yeah, quite a bit. Quite a bit I do. You know, we had some uh you know, I’m sure you’re gonna talk about Stefan Veu or big matchups. You know, we used to player uh death matches in the locker room. Man, that was crazy. Really? What? Like, what was it like? Locker rooms. I don’t know that they’re as fun as they used to be. Oh, definitely. You know, there’s no ping pong table in there anymore. I think it’s been replaced with norm, you know, like they they taking it too serious now. I know. Yeah, that was our idea. Me and Steph uh you know brought in a ping pong table. It was kind of a big deal. You know uh Jacques was not too sure about it back then, but you know a lot of guys used to play. We had fun. Um me and Steph I mean we used to play maybe 10 games, you know, every day. We were on the on the table pretty much, you know, before practice, after practice, before games. I remember I have a pretty good story about pingpong um with Steph. He he was he was better than me but uh we had some good matchup and one morning skate you know he beat me pretty bad and he was going around the room with a a board you know he was keeping track of the scores you know he was up like 100 g 100 wins to like 60 and he was going around the the dressing room and I just smashed the board and I cut open my hand and I couldn’t move and we had a game that night and Jock was pissed. pissed at me. We were not allowed to play ping pong before games after that. Oh, so yeah, that got that got shut down. So he’s walking around like a ring girl. Oh, yeah. Just with the side with Yeah. With their record and that’s similar to like the soccer injury cuz you hear about that guys now play two touch beforehand and eventually some guy inevitably goes in and is like, I rolled my ankle. I can’t play. My coach is just mad. Soccer’s dead. Um that’s good. I love that it got that competitive though. How was the locker room uh in early days? Wild Brian like you know Jacqu Mayer so much is kind of made of how he was structured and there wasn’t probably the media access that there is now like it’s cool to hear these stories because it was sounds like a fun environment and Jock was rocking around walking around having a good time like he seemed like just a stoic guy and that it was just all business all the time but uh you guys you guys had some fun in there. We did and you know I came in and I was just talking to the media about this a little bit you know and how hard it’s got to be to win you know actually win the Stanley Cup or be competitive. I came in, I was like 31, 32 years old and all these guys just basically got drafted. Bernzy, Mo, him. I mean, unbelievable careers and unbelievable players, but they’re they’re young kids, you know, and they got to mature a little bit and every these guys all went on to have great careers, but I I think about that often, like how how you have to plan it out as a general manager, like how how do you plug that in where you’re mature and you’re ready to go at the time? But uh yeah, we had a it was I was the old guy in the locker room, but uh I think I I treat fun. Yeah, I I uh I I took these guys under my wing. I I treated them with respect and, you know, I thought it was important to come in and help the younger guys and, you know, really be a a team and not so much of a like, you know, the veterans back then, you know, they come in, they’re like, you know, they eat first, you wait till they’re off the airplane. There’s none of that going on with me. Yeah, Roelly was great. He he was a big part of our team. Uh I know we had fun on and off the ice. Um I he was a big part of my uh my success where when I was here in in Minnesota. So uh you know he was like a big brother to us. It was good to have him around. What was it like with Jock? So again like defensive coach like the trap and stuff but you guys were offensive players and part of your job is to score goals. Um, did he give you guys freedom? Like were you able to do the things you want to do? And I understand that’s kind of a tough question, but like um at some point you you guys did have good offensive careers and numbers in there. Roelly had the green light. Really, it was Jacques’s favorite. I really could do everything he wanted, but you know, he was pretty responsible defensively. So, um, well, I’ll talk for myself. Uh he you know he was pretty hard on me to um you know to play the system and and to make sure I was uh you know was playing good defensively but offensively he did give me the green light. So I was able to u to play my game and and then create uh create stuff out there. He used to just tell our room like whatever you do good you got to do it you know. Um, and and I wouldn’t have had a as long a career if I didn’t play for Jacques early on. Like I was 21 years old when I went into new New Jersey. And you know, you’re scoring all these goals in college hockey. You’re going to think you’re going to go light it up in the NHL and you end up starting on the fourth line, a checking line. So I really attribute the longevity of my career to Jacques and you’ll hear that from Wally and a lot of other guys. But um you know he it was it was fabulous cuz I I had him nine years of my career. So um the the best coach I’ve ever had and uh he he he meant a lot to a lot of players. If you think of a La Mer bumper sticker, you know, something that stuck with you, a phrase or something you shaped your uh career around, what would be a couple jocks jockisms? I guess you got any Butch? Oh man. Uh, I got some in French, but you know, it’s, you know, Yeah. Um, I don’t know. Well, you really Yeah, we I don’t know if I have any Jacisms. Billy was pulling out like a million of them because, you know, he he was we were both really young when we played for him in New Jersey, but uh, you know, when we when we were in Minnesota, we were playing like the Red Wings, and the Red Wings were like have the puck literally the whole game. Yep. And so he wouldn’t allow the centerman’s the centerman to go past the top of the circles. That’s true. So we were like we we got to pick center was always third forward high. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And you’re you can’t go below the top of the circles. It could be a winger. It could be a winger. And it would go weak side. And I’d be like our D have to pinch there. He’s like when you coach the team you could have your D pinch there but we’re not pinching. Literally, you go into Detroit and their heyday and you wouldn’t touch the puck the whole game. No. But you’d be in the game. We’d be in the game for sure. We’d be in the game and sometimes we’d win the game. They’d make a bad turnover. They’d get frustrated. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s exactly what we did to them in New Jersey when we beat them in the in the fi in the Stanley Cup final. I mean, we just trapped them up and they were loaded at that time. So, they were supposed to smoke us. Coaches love that commitment, though. you know, like if if you commit to it and you buy into it, some you do get the result from time to time. They they absolutely love that. Um let’s talk uh Mo a little bit. He’s obviously a big part of the franchise. He got his number retired, but um what are some things you remember about Mo? For me, the number one was probably how bad his hockey stick was. You know, the knob. Do you guys remember how bad so bad I don’t know how he hold it, his tape job, everything. But good backhand on the guy. You guys uh any other memories? Well, you know, so competitive. I mean, that’s the number one thing that comes to my mind is during practices, during games, how hard he worked. Um, you know, he was he was a proud guy. Um, and you know, he was a good team. Yeah. From a young age. I mean, I I got him he was pretty young and he was really mature, you know, and I don’t know if that came from his brother or whatever. I remember one time we were playing like three on three low or something and in practice and he just smoked one of the veterans and I was just like, “Oh boy, this kid’s competitive.” Yeah. Yeah. And he he had the details down too like uh you know he’d have his shootout up move down pat faceoffs. Terrific. Like I think there was some Jacques influence in his game too in terms of like detail and stuff like that. Yeah. Big big time. He was good all over the ice, you know, PK, power play, face off like you said. And, you know, that’s one of the reason why uh he’s got a jersey uh up at the rink now. How about uh Nicholas Baxim? You guys played with him a little bit? Um uh you have any pregame stories? Uh were you on the short list? Would he talk to you guys morning of? Uh he used to call me the old man all the time. That was his big thing with me. But yeah, no, he wouldn’t talk to us on game day. I mean, game day, he he was quite uh quite a guy, but you know, when he was running around, well, I don’t know if you call that running, but he was still one of my like my favorite pregame routines of all time, jogging or whatever, he was like going what, half a mile an hour just around the X, I think, running. I was crazy. Yeah. It’s good. When when you guys watch the NHL now, do you find I mean, we got a spinama, we got the the clapper on the shootout. Are you do you are you kind of old school? You know, you like the Kachchuck brothers fighting at the Four Nations or are you game? It was awesome. Or are you intrigued with the the new school, you know, all the all the different things they can do? I are you where do you where do you net out on the modern NHL? I think a mix of both is is awesome. I mean, you you still you still need the fights. You still need you know the the roughness, the hitting, but uh you know, seeing the new guys like the Capriov and uh you know, I’m from Montreal, so when I see lays and as a D man, it’s it’s pretty impressive what what these guys these guys can do. So, uh yeah, it’s pretty uh mix of both. you got the during my later in my career is when they started changing everything and you probably remember and there’s no more hooking and holding. I mean, you watch it pre I mean now you can’t slow anybody down or um and and that was like that towards the end of my career. But yeah, it’s it’s impressive. There’s a lot of talent out there, guys with high IQ and watching like Cooer play and I mean there’s there and and there’s special players whatever era you played in in no matter what. So, and I think they’d be just as good in that era as you know. So, but the speed the speed of the game now is Yeah. ridiculous. See McDavid McKinnon. Yeah. I mean, it’s pretty special players. But so and you’ve got kids that are playing now like and the attention that’s probably paid to skill and skill development like it’s necessary. Like I think the way that players are taught now is entirely different too, you know. And you think about YouTube and just the access to kids to be able to watch these little clips and then to be inspired and then creative like like I don’t know when your brother introduced you to the spinama or if he came up with that on his own, but now kids just have that like at their fingertips like boom, watch us play. Okay. and then they go practice and come up with their own iteration. But the skills are evolving at like a rate that’s unbelievable right now in my opinion when it comes to uh some of these kids. Well, social media is huge, right? I mean, we didn’t have any of that stuff. So, you know, I know I have a son that plays in Milwaukee in the American League and, you know, he’s constantly on his phone watching, you know, guys doing different things and we didn’t have that. I didn’t have that access when I was younger. you know, you didn’t you just didn’t have it. I was going to ask you, you had a you know, you could play any of the three forwards uh positions and you had so many short-handed goals, nine in a season, 33 overall. What made you able to play center or either wing and and then what was your kind of how did you approach uh the penalty kill as an off basically to score? Well, yeah, I had I had speed and um you know that that was one of the things and when I was in New Jersey at the start of my career like Marty Broda the way he handled the puck like I he probably had half the assists on my goal. So as soon as I saw he was getting it I was going. So, um, but you know, it, you know, it comes back to Jacques and learning how to be a centerman, learning how to be a winger. And I find like watching my kids go through it, it such a, uh, to to be able to play center, it’s so it’s huge. Like, you’re taking face offs, you’re, you know, they might need you on the PK to take face offs. When it becomes the the little things, it’s super important. But uh I was lucky to learn those early. The other thing with the middle is you you have to know everybody’s responsibility in every situation. You know the wing’s responsibility on every draw in every spot cuz I mean you got to count on them in every situation where sometimes I think on wing you can just be like I’m out here like I got my guy. I got my guy you know. So, uh, I do think center two is just valuable because like they know and can adapt to every situation because they’re aware of them, you know, and if you if your kid plays the middle and can be taught those things that uh that’s going to give more opportunity to play. You were really good on draws, weren’t you? Uh, on my strong side on the backand side. Oh, yeah. You were good on the back end. I remember you. I had one I have a good uh story with Keith Kachchuck, actually. I think I’ve probably told it before, the $20 bill story. I went into St. And uh I was with the Ducks and I heard he was a good dude. So I was just like, “Hey, on an ozone faceoff draw, hey buddy, fourth line, I I need this draw. I need this draw right now. So let me snap it back.” He didn’t really say anything. He’s just like, “Fine.” Didn’t put a stick down and snap it back. Goes D to D. They shoot and it goes in the net. And he looks at me. He’s like, “Sorry, so sorry, but thank you, man. I won the draw and got an apple. This is so good. Thank you.” That’s amazing, by the So, uh, I think, uh, he’s he’s got an assist in keeping me in the NHL for a handful of years. That’s the right guy. Hey, I was going to ask, you know, the culture of hockey, uh, I think back in your area had more of the hot stove. The locker room was just it’s I think it’s it was more fun, a little bit more cowboy. Who were some hot stove guys that you played with? Just the best guys to walk into the locker room or be on a road trip with. Who were some of the biggest personalities you played with? I would say early on in my career would be Andrew Brunette. Yeah. You know, Andrew Bruno was a was a great guy on and off the ice, a great person. So, uh he was he was really fun to be around. He was a big football and baseball fantasy guy. So, he got me into that stuff. So, yeah, Bruno was pretty fun. Yeah, he majored in hot stove, I think. How about you? I think I think you’re right about like even when I started like all those guys you know beers hot stove like I had fat off and he told us some crazy stories about Russia you know like he came over obviously but all the things that they went through as players and learn about some of those things but like Randy McKay and Dave Andrichuk like all Lyall Odeline I mean we had some characters some big time characters in New Jersey. So, there was a lot of hot stoves going on and if you weren’t there, it was a problem. Yeah. I mean, you’re getting talked about if you’re not there. That That was the only That was the only rule you enforced as a vet. Like, you have to be there. Yeah. You better be here. You better be there. Why weren’t you there? Yeah. That’s good. But Billy has a a good line where he says, “You need character and characters uh to be good.” um in the early days like on the wild who who were like the characters you know obviously Bruno would be one of them um you know and I think different guys were characters for different reasons I’m comfortable talking about Wes Walls cuz he was a character in that like he was like he needed to have his lifts on his skates you know oh my god or his steel or he’d be out there at 3:30 doing cuts like what are you doing right there there are characters any others I mean Um, you know, from equipment guys too, you know, like Dass is quite the character, but Yeah. Tony, go ahead. Another chef. No, I mean Sean Sean Hill comes to mind. It was Yeah. Yeah. Just and Carney together. Yeah. Yeah. When the veteran like veteran guys came into our room, those guys were the characters. Yeah. Especially with this, it was a young group. So, y fun stuff. Hey, I was going to ask, you know, the World Juniors are coming uh uh here to Minnesota, and if I got this right, you got uh I think you both played in the World Juniors. If it says you played in it three times, which is insane if that’s true. So, I did. Will you just talk about talk about that tradition and um you were on a team with uh Flower. I think Ovetchkin was on Russia uh when you were playing in it. So, just that experience and for the people of St. Paul, coming down to West 7th and being in bars with all these different countries. What What did you make of the World Junior experience, both of you? That was a great event. I had a chance to to play in Halifax in in in Canada, so in front of our uh you know, of our fans. So, the atmosphere was was crazy. I mean, you’re 18, 19 years old, have a chance to represent your country. It’s it’s a great honor. So, uh yeah, Flower was on the team. uh you know we did loss against Russia and Avetkin in the final was uh pretty devastating but uh it was a great experience. I mean uh it’s pretty fun that you guys going to have a chance to to live to live it this year in Minnesota. Yeah. Um I was lucky to play three times. I think at the time US was kind of they throw a younger guy a bone basically. I think I was on the fourth line or something, but there the guys that were coming up, they they’d throw them into that situation because they knew the years to come. Um, we won a bronze actually. It was like we won the Stanley Cup, you know, one year. So, it was like a long time since we did anything there. So, um, and you see where USA Hockey has gone. It’s pretty impressive um to to where they are now. So, I think the development program and some of those other obviously every the game’s grown and it’s just uh yeah to represent your country it’s it’s amazing thing. Pierre, that’s a a good question to ask. Um you USA hockey has turned into like a superstar. It used to be Canada, right, on almost exclusively on the World Junior stage and then now the US is right there kind of neck andneck with Canada. Is it like objects in your rearview mirror are bigger than they appear kind of or closer than they appear? Like how does Canada feel about the US right now in terms of like international hockey? Well, yeah, they know you guys are right there. I mean we uh we see it in different u you know the world junior the last few years even the for nation this year was you know it was so competitive and uh you know they you know Canada won but they they split two games right so um no I think um I think I think the program in Canada they uh they see uh the US coming even the other country like Sweden and Finland you know they’re they’re all pretty competitive so it’s uh but I I think I think it’s good for hockey in general. I think it’s good for uh for everybody. So, it’s um it’s fun to watch. Anything? I was just going to ask when you’re back uh kind of a two-parter. There’s going to be some nostalgia tonight. Um and I’m just curious when you think of your era of the Wild, you know, what’s the jersey? You think of, you know, what’s the uh goal song? I mean, and where do you do you do you go to Mancinis? Do you have a golf course you like to play? like when you’re back here, uh, how do you kind of process the wild history in Minnesota in general? Well, you know, when the jersey came out that I was get with my sons, like that’s the first uh they were sending me it on Instagram right away. Hey, Dad, look at the link to purchase. Yeah, look at the jersey. And uh, you know, obviously they were growing up during that time period. So, it was super special time. Um, and like I said, I had one of my kids here. Um but you know I had my best years here. I really did and largely because of this guy. But uh you know we um we had a great team and we we had you know it was it was just a good young team and um I cherish in my time here for sure. Yeah. I mean it’s uh it’s fun to be back. Um I had a chance to come back what two summers ago for the crazy game of hockey. Oh yeah, I was here and uh I had a chance to bring my wife and my daughters with me. So uh it was a a fun four or five days. Uh we has the chance. One of my daughter was born here. So uh she wanted to visit around. So uh you know we went to uh to see our old house. Mall of America was obviously one of one of us one of the stop. Um, but yeah, tonight’s going to be fun to go back at uh well, I don’t know if I should say the X, but there there’s a new name right now. It’s Grand Casino. Grand Casino. Um, you know, you know, see the fans and uh have a chance to to watch a game. It’s um yeah, I was here for many years and you know, it’s it was fun. Where where was Pregame meal back in the day? I used to go to uh Da Vinci. It was here in St. Paul. Were you coming or No, you were going home. No, I went home. Yeah, went home. Yeah. So, Da Vinci, but I think it’s closed now. Spaghetti and meat sauce or It was like a pasta bar. They were making your own pasta with chicken and stuff and salad. And if you guys cruise through the facilities downstairs, how nice is it down there now? It’s crazy. I know. And then they got like chefs like you you can’t walk through there without being like, “What smells so good?” It’s like the food. All these guys, they fit. Back in our days, we used to we had a list of every player and it was everybody’s turn to buy lunch for the team. So, we used to order like cassetta or a PF Chang or, you know, whatever. But now they have it, you know, they have their they have it made. And then that used to be a fun little bit cuz you’d have the the guy that was cheap would get like, you know, the Subway sandwiches. Well, during my time, might have been the last couple years, I got I got them to make us breakfast. Oh, really? Yeah. I went to Riser and I was like, “Can you guys make us breakfast?” You ended up getting the one that started the omelet station. You started this whole thing. That’s true. Oh, really? Yeah. We should get your We should get your name up there at least at the station. Put me over the kitchen. That was nice though cuz you just wheel into the rink at like 9:30. Yeah. You you just get up, have your coffee, come in. Hey, last that was awesome. Last one. And uh I don’t know if it was this way when you were in Jersey. Um we were just talking about this. Is there something special about having like your morning skate and the game rink be the place that you go and go play? because XL Energy Center now Grand Casino Arena there was like the home ice advantage but now they practice over here all the time and it’s maybe a little different you know and when I was in Jersey at the credential center we had two locker rooms so 100 yards away practice locker room game locker room and you’d go to the game locker room and it it felt special you know it felt like like what you want it to feel like when you’re about ready to play a game. Um, you guys obviously felt that your whole career while or your whole time here because that was where you pregame skate and it’s what you did. You think there’s any validity to like making a room special and having it be like the place where you all come together to go compete against somebody else? You got it. Oh, you got it. You know, I don’t know. I mean, obviously what they’re thinking is they can come in, have breakfast. It’s comfortable. Yeah. And they can they’ll skate, then they can probably have their pregame here. Exactly. You know, it’s simpler. It’s simpler. Yeah. But does it take away from that? I bet it I I think it does a little bit for sure. And I I played in those two rooms as well, which they changed it now. It’s just the one just the one room with the big room and they go Yeah. They go in the corner now. Yeah. Just the big one for the same reason that the Wild play here. Just there’s there’s better treatment options. Like it’s just better for the player. But and that’s where I’m I’d be curious if there’s an argument for like there’s something to it being special and being different, you know, or um food for thought perhaps. But you got anything else? No, I I just want to thank you for coming back and being part of this. Hopefully you can bring the energy tonight. Uh let’s hope so. We need a little juice. We need a little juice. You’re the guys to do it. So yeah, thank you so much for joining us here. Yeah, thanks. No problem. You know, Gabby came all the way from from Czech to be here. So it’s awesome. Yeah, it’s great to see these guys. It is nice of you guys to travel, take time out uh out of your busy schedules uh to come sit with us and we appreciate and the fans love it too. I wish they would do more event like this with the uh ex player older guys, the alumni. I would come more often. Definitely. Maybe they will. Yeah, starting it. Yeah, we’ll use that sound bite. That’s right. All right, see you guys. All right. Thank you. Heat. Heat. [Music]

Carts and King aren’t letting the darkness creep in, even though the boys might feel like they’re in an endless tunnel right now. For a week that didn’t produce much to talk about, the hosts sure had a lot to say. But let’s be honest, it was a tough week to be a Minnesota sports fan, but this show is going to change all that! Buckle up for a marathon pod, all leading up to an amazing interview with some legendary Minnesota Wild Alumns in Pierre Marc Bouchard, and Brian Rolston. The guys talk about style on and off the ice, how to dangle across the blue line or on the shootout approach, and how sometimes you just need to take a clap bomb from the hashmarks. Bouchard and Rolston talk about their time under Jacques Lemaire, the fond memories of the Xcel Energy Center, and how team meals were often made at home in those days. The Minnesota Wild celebrate their first 25th anniversary game tonight against the Winnipeg Jets, so listen up for a great pre-game pod, and dust off the old sweaters for a blast from the past.