Nationals Go Young, Twins Go Familiar | MLB Managerial Carousel Heats Up

Nationals Go Young, Twins Go Familiar | MLB Managerial Carousel Heats Up

[Music] Hot corner and it’s breaking news right before the show. There were so many manager openings and they’re filling up fast, especially on a World Series off day. Jeff Pass reporting. The Nats finalizing a deal to hire Blake Butra as manager. He’s 33 years old. He will be the youngest manager in Major League Baseball in more than 50 years. Four seasons as a minor league manager in the Rays organization. His teams had a 258 and 144 record. His first season as manager in that organization. He was 25 years old. This a kid prodigy who’s now up to the show. And then he updates the managerial carousels so far and says how there are a few positions left including Atlanta, San Diego, and Colorado. Oh, and also have two of the six that have been filled so far have major league manager experience. Four do not. No, I don’t even I mean Chris, maybe you know that maybe but I love that they were like his managerial record in the minor league was this. Who cares? That has that A has nothing to do with B. But this is my thing. Uh the new GM in in Washington wanted somebody he probably knows. He wanted somebody he could get for fairly cheap and he wanted somebody he could have conversations with about control and how to do things. Boom. Boom. Boom. And the third thing, they wanted somebody from the race because every organization wants to be the race. So this guy, oh, he worked for the race for two years. Let’s hire him. But are okay. So then my next question is we just had Aaron Gleman on talking about Derek Shelton and why they hired him. The Nationals are they going to try and compete or are they going back to we’re going to rebuild? Because most teams that are trying to compete want a veteran experience manager, right? And teams that are trying to rebuild hire the younger guy to try to build and learn with the team and then if they get they’re there long enough and they get good. We’ve seen it. We’ve seen it all over the place. They fire the young guy and bring in the veteran guy to try to get them over the hump. I can tell you what’s going on. Okay, tell me. So, the ownership group definitely wants to sell the team. They haven’t gotten the price they want. They’re doing the same thing. Just like the twins. Are we talking twins or nats? It’s basically the same thing. Are they competing? No. They’re not going to be big spenders in the offseason, which is a surprise to many. But last year was the year and everyone was like, “Oh, wait. No.” So, they’re not for real. They’re for sale. They are definitely for sale right now. If you gave them the price they wanted, they would sell the team tonight. But they’re not going to get it until after the CBA and that’s when franchise values will change. So, in the meantime, they’re not rebuilding. They’re definitely not competing during the off season. They’re still building. I would call this team Kratz still building because they have some nice pieces that they would like to work on developing. That’s why they bring a player development guy in. And then they will continue to try and build, get high draft picks and trade guys away when they get close to free agency. Maybe lock up one or two of the players that they have as part of their core where you can get cost control because that’s still good when you’re selling a team and you can say, “Hey, I have these two stars. They don’t cost much.” But that is the NATS in 30 seconds. All right. There’s nothing I can guarantee more than I can guarantee this. A manager in the big leagues has 0% to do with the fact that the Nats cannot produce outside of their number one picks big league players. Yes, there people are going to clap back at me and say Ren Don and Trey Turner and Bryce Harper and Steven Strazer. I’m talking produce him. And if the and if the Nets are hiring him for whatever the reasons, you know, it’s easy this way, you you know, after the CBA sales, all that stuff, if they’re hiring him because of his player development stuff, hire him in a player development role, not necessarily to be the manager, because I don’t know how he’s going to be as manager. Maybe he’s a great dude. Maybe he is really able to connect with the players and the Nats continue to be third, fourth, fifth in the National League East, but to me, don’t hire him because you’re going to you’re going to enhance the player development. He’s going to have maybe three meetings at the beginning of before the season starts about player development. Player development is a dayto-day thing that has to be done on boots on the ground type of thing. In that role as a big league manager, you have zero control over player development. You’re getting them in the big leagues and you’re helping them develop once they’re in there to be good b big league baseball players, but they are two separate entities. The manager and player development. Yeah, but this is the thing right now. Things get sexy, right? I’m gonna bring the college coach into. This is what it is. That’s what I said. Well, do you think that? And also, by the way, the record like when people are like, “Oh, he had this record in the minor leagues.” You know this crat in the minor leagues, you’re told what bullpen guy to bring in when. You’re told who to pitch, who has to play, who sits. In the big leagues, most teams don’t do that. You have to make those decisions on the fly. Now, do they have a script? Yes. But in the minor leagues, it’s literally, hey, this guy has to get an inning today no matter what. This guy has to do this. This guy has to do this. In the big leagues, you’re trying to win every You’re supposed to be trying to win every game. Now, do you That’s question. You can argue that point. But in the big leagues, like we have no idea what kind of he could be the best manager of all time. We have no idea. I have a question. Guys get called up sooner than ever now, right? Yes. Do you think this is a response to that? Hey, we’re getting players up to the show that need to continue to develop more than they used. Would you rather have them learn from a guy? This This is always my argument and this is this is not a knock in both ways. I see it from both ways. Would you rather have a guy, a manager that’s been around and he’s been through situations and can actually talk guys through situations or would you have a guy that, hey, I can develop you and get you ready for the big leagues, but I’ve never been there. Right? This is why the Vitello hiring and this why this hiring are so intriguing to me because who they bring along with them, who their coaching staff is, because they’re going to need people that have been there and done that to talk to some of these players about what it’s actually like. We had this conversation about the playoffs, the Blue Jays. Until you’ve lived it, you can’t explain it to somebody. Until you’ve done it, you can’t explain it. So, it’s these these this manager cycle has been fascinating because there’s all these guys that haven’t really done it and they’ve never been managers or coaches at the big league level. So, I wish them all luck. We’ll see how it goes. But for the most part, this guy doesn’t work out, right? This situation hasn’t worked. I I can’t. We tried. Yeah. And I don’t and I and I am not, believe me, you’ve heard all my conspiracies. I love thinking outside the box. I love, well, why why is this going to work? What does he do that’s going to bring a Nats team to the brink of the playoffs to, you know, enhance their season by 10 wins? What is an example previously? Because if you go too far outside the box, you’re not even participating in what’s going on in the box that everyone else is in. I need an example of why this will work or like where it has worked before. And people will say, “Well, Theo Epstein was the youngest general manager ever and look what he’s done.” You’re right. Absolutely. I’m not talking about the youth. I’m talking about the overall package of inexperience and the youth and just the respect level of what he’s jumping into. This episode of FT is brought to you by Hule. Cheers. Cheers. We got a new Hule edition here. The Daily Greens. I’ve got blueberry, lemon, and thyme. You’ve got I got myself peach and habiscus. I love peach. This is delicious. Fuel for the go, man. And this is really good for your body. It’s really good for your systems. Anything that has greens in it, especially from fuel, is pretty fantastic. This will get you going. a little energy, a little boost, and keep your insides feeling well, too. Yeah. Developed by registered nutritionists and dieticians. Two vitamins, minerals, and superfoods. Only 25 calories, 4 g of fiber, only 1 g of sugar. That’s the goods. Of course, we still love the Hule Black Edition. I got chocolate peanut butter. How you doing? Banana’s delicious. Let’s go. Hule makes healthy eating simple. They also just launched into Target stores nationwide. Try both products today with 15% off your purchase for new customers with the exclusive code foul at hule.com/foul. Use that code and fill out the postcheckout survey to help support the show. What’s old is new again. So Aaron covers the twins as you all know. He’s been on with us quite a bit. Covers the twins for the athletic. Also Gleamman and the Geek, the great podcast covering the Minnesota Twins. He’s already done plenty on this topic. But now it is time. It is a World Series off day. Aaron, good to see you. And let’s get your initial thoughts on Derek Shelton returning to the team after previously being on the coaching staff with Roco Baldelli and being the next manager of Minnesota. I mean, I think it’s it’s sort of predictable. I think this is sort of the moment they fired Baldelli, which I think was kind of a long time coming by the time they did it. They weren’t going to be able to I think they were they were limited by two things. one, they’re not going to be able to be a destination that kind of an upand cominging in demand manager is going to want to come to. Like if there was any other team interested in someone, they have an edge over the Twins from a monetary standpoint, from a competitiveness standpoint, but then also it’s not clear to me that they’re planning to be competitive in 2026. like we, you know, we asked Derrick Falv at the end of the season about payroll or about the plan for next season and he kind of tap danced around it and said he has to talk to ownership and see what the what their kind of view of it is. And so that’s going to limit you in terms of who you can bring in as a manager. So you add all that up and you know the familiarity like you said not only was Shelton on Baldelli staff as the bench coach in 2019 which is one of the most successful seasons the Twins have had. He was actually the year before that on Molader’s staff uh before they fired Paul Molader and replaced him with Baldelli and he finished run not if not runner up he was one of the finalists in 2019 when the job went to Baldi. the the level of familiarity that they have with Shelton and he’s just he’s a very well-liked guy across baseball uh as far as I’ve been told and I think within the Twins too they’re just very comfortable. Now my question would be why are you kind of leaning into familiarity and the status quo at a time when the organization as a whole is trending very quickly in in a bad direction. Aaron, I mean this sounds like Baldelli part two. I love Rocco and I love Derek Sheldon. I know Derek Shelton for a long long time and and and I and I think he’s a great guy, but he just got fired by the Pirates. Okay, no, not a knock on him, but he got fired by the Pirates not that long ago because he wasn’t doing the right thing to help them develop to the next level. The Twins are a younger going to be a youngerish team more than likely because they’re going to slash payroll. It’s what the Polads do, right? So, why would they not go for a younger more energetic? Not that Shelton isn’t, you know, doesn’t have energy and all that. Why would they not go? I mean, you know, for a somebody that they think might be, you know, that’s been around, I don’t know. I’m think like a Kai Korea, something like that, right? The guy that has been around, but they’re a little bit younger and they’ve never been a manager, right? This just seems like they’re just retreading Rocco part two. I mean, I agree with that. I think it’s a very tough argument to make against that. Like the familiarity, he’s literally one of Baldi’s friends. He was his right-hand man. Um, and you know that the thing you said about the Pirates, like I don’t The Pirates have been bad for so long and they’re in such a difficult spot because of the lack of investment from ownership that I’m willing to kind of say like, okay, he had a terrible record with the Pirates. Who hasn’t had a terrible record with the Pirates? But the problem is that the Twins are, you know, trending in that direction, too. I mean, like you said, they’re cutting payroll even further. They’ve traded away a bunch of their guys. they might still end up trading away someone like Joe Ryan, Pablo Lopez, Ryan Jeffers, and lean even more into kind of barebones spending with a younger team. And I it’s nothing against Derek Shelton, but I do agree with what you’re saying is like this is they’re checking the box and they’re able to say, “Hey, we made a change.” But this is about as close to no change as you can get with literally making a change. like you’re bringing a guy back in who is a retread manager, who has one of the lower winning percentages in baseball history for someone who managed I think he managed 700 and something games for the Pirates. So, you can’t even say he’s had success elsewhere. I would have certainly leaned into kind of what you were describing is try to find the next good manager like someone who’s in their 30s, maybe recently retired or has sort of risen up the ranks quickly. But I wonder from that perspective if they’re viewing this more as like a placeholder like we’re just sort of treading water organizationally and why try to bring in an upandcomer and hand them a roster that’s just not equipped to contend and that kind of gets that stink on them right away. Whereas, you know, this is going to sound mean, but Derek Shelton is used to losing and he is not a guy who’s gonna, you know, cause big problems. He’s going to deal well with not only ownership but the front office and the players. he’s not gonna, you know, cause big issues that way. And if if they view him as just sort of a steady hand to get them through what might be one, two, maybe three difficult years, I sort of see their thinking on that, but it’s definitely underwhelming. How do they sell this to the fans? You’re already talking about a fan base who lost, I think, you’ll tell me if I’m wrong, nine guys at the trade deadline, and you already talked about the other guys that have a chance of possibly being moved. How do they sell this to the fans? cuz all the things that you said are probably correct, but you can’t sell it to the fans. Hey, welcome to Minnesota. We have our new manager, Derek Shelton. Hasn’t really won much. He’s probably getting paid way less than everybody else that’s a manager that’s getting new managerial jobs. And we’re just going to try to tread water. But how does the team sell it to the fans? Because this is a time to invigorate the fans. There’s there’s no way to sell this to the fans. I mean, they’re so far past that point. I mean, I agree with you for sure, but I mean, the truth is, you know, is there even a manager out there that they could have hired that would could be sold to the fans and get people excited? I mean, I joked when we did our kind of emergency podcast last night reacting to the news. I said, “What if something crazy happened and Dave Roberts, they lose the World Series and he gets fired and the Twins hire him?” That’d be more exciting to the fan base than Dererick Shelton in that weird crazy scenario, but it’s not like people are going to be rushing to the ticket office. I mean, the the fan morale has gotten so low and they have such little faith in every level of this organization. I mean, ownership obviously, we talk about that every time I’m on, but the front office, the coaching staff, the player development, the players themselves that I agree with what you’re saying is this is underwhelming within that context. But I wonder from their standpoint if they were like, “There isn’t a move we could make. there is no living manager who we could realistically get that would really raise fan morale. And so why not if if that’s the case, if it’s already rock bottom, why not just bring in a guy we know and we like? And like AJ said, he I’m this is not intended to take anything away from Derek Shelton. My interactions with Shelton have always been good. Everyone I’ve talked to about him over the years speaks really highly of him, not only as a person, but as a, you know, someone who’s smart and hardworking, attention to detail, all the things you would look for in a manager. And I’m willing to believe the the Pirates thing, he can learn from that and he can be a solid manager. I just wonder, are they in a place as a team from the top bottom that the manager is even going to really be in a position to matter at this point? So many good answers here from you, Aaron. like there when you talked about the placeholder part literally where I was going with my question and I’ll add on here. So I’ll take a different turn to actually put my opinion down. I like it. I like the hire. I like it for what the placeholder part is. I like it because it’s someone who’s wellliked. He’s safe. He’s nice. We know that he’s a respectable guy. He has manager experience. And he’s going to go to Minnesota and be like, “This is a massive upgrade. There is there is a lot more talent in terms of the way that the team is run. I’m sorry. Right. Like I I’ll lay it out here. Derek Falian company, right? The the group that he leads, they’ve done a really good job with limited resources and you can’t fire the owner. So Rockco gets booted because the team is crumbling because the owner wanted to sell and he’s kind of tanking the place. Don’t worry, Minnesota. Retraction is not going to happen. Eventually, this will get better. It’s just going to take more time. But he got fired by the Pirates and he is a hard worker. He is probably the most motivated person on the planet to get an opportunity like this and take a team that’s probably going to be pegged to win what 70 games next year and get them to 80 and be like, “Oh, wow. This team has like nothing. They didn’t do anything the offseason. They kind of tanked it just like they did the trade deadline.” And he kind of did a good job. I I could see a scenario like that where he’s on a personal mission to be like, “No, no, it wasn’t me. The Pirates are the number one joke in the league. So now I’m going to a team that’s more like in the five to seven range. I mean that is true. If they were if they were sitting in an office a few weeks ago and they were like is there someone we can hire who has experience managing in the majors for like five plus seasons but in a worse situation than the one they would be in here. He’s like the guy for that. I mean they’ve had like the 28th ranked payroll. So like you said he’s coming to a place that might now have like you know the 24th ranked payroll. to him that’s like amazing. And you know I’ve gotten questions from people who are like does Shelton even know what he’s getting into? Like why would he even take I mean the truth is there are good jobs and there are bad jobs but ultimately there are only 30 of these things and people work their whole lives to get this and to your point I’m sure he’s not enthused or happy with how it went in Pittsburgh. But he wasn’t in position to turn down that job six years ago. And if he wants to manage again, and like you said, if he wants to prove that he’s better than he showed in Pittsburgh, if he’s capable of of raising a team from 70 wins to, you know, borderline competitiveness, this is probably his best and maybe only opportunity. So, I see it from that perspective. But, yeah, you’re definitely right. I mean, he could walk in the door here, and I don’t want to be too harsh on uh for Pirates fans listening to this because I don’t know the inner workings of the Pirates, but it’s one of the few situations where you could take someone from the place they’ve been, bring them to a team in decline with a very low payroll, and have them walk in the door on day one and kind of look around and go, “Actually, this is kind of nice compared to where I just was.” Aaron, does this just show that guys just want to be managers? Because I look at Anaheim, Kurt Suzuki took a one-year deal, right? Derek Shelton probably knows this team’s not going to be competitive, but he just wants to manage this. And is this what managing has become? It’s just guys that just gosh, I just have to manage no matter what, and I got to do this. I did it once, and I got to do it again, and I know this team isn’t going to be great, but who cares? I’m the manager of the Minnesota Twins. Yeah. I mean, if you want to be a manager and certain like what are the I mean, he’s he’s 55 and it’s possible that Shelton could have taken a bench coach job or hitting coach job somewhere and kind of rehabbed his his stock as a manager candidate and maybe two cycles from now, two offseasons from now, he gets another opportunity. But that’s not set in stone. And you know, we talked about the Twins familiarity with him. The truth is he’s familiar with them, too. He knows Derrick Faly. He knows a lot of the people involved. He knows some of the players who are still there, not a ton of them, but you know, like Byron Buckton, let’s say. And from her, his perspective, if he wants to manage and he wants to manage this year or next year, this is probably his only opportunity. And he doesn’t know what the future holds in that regard. And, you know, like I said, there’s 30 of these things and there’s going to be people who would, you know, kill to have these jobs. And you add in the extra motivation where he took that job and was, I’m sure, very excited to get his first managing gig in 2020 with the Pirates and it goes, you know, south pretty quickly and now he wants to show that he can do it. Yes, it’s a tough spot. But if you want to be a major league manager and you’re not like, you know, Albert Pooh, let’s say, where just your name recognition alone and what you’ve done as a player just makes it opens doors for you. you’re going to have kind of limited opportunities and you’re going to have to take what’s what’s offered to you. And I think it’s a very difficult spot. On the other hand, if they go 81 and 81 next year, he might get some manager of the year votes just because no one expects them to do absolutely anything, particularly if the offseason plays out kind of how I expect it will, which is some more trades of veterans. Bingo. And that’s what I want to get to next. So, two fan questions here. One I think is a quicker one. I’ll just ask you quick and then I’ll get you my next one. So Ryan asks, “Was Tory Hunter considered?” Do you know? Did you hear about him specifically? My understanding is that he never formerly interviewed um he has been more on the Angel side than the Twins side, although I’ve seen Tori over the last few years in the clubhouse and around the Twins a little bit. Um I don’t know if it was his lack of interest, their lack of interest, both. But yeah, he was never I don’t think viewed as a as a serious candidate or at the very least he never was part of the formal interview process. Okay. And then last one which is a length of your question. Uh Armond asks percentage chance of them trading Joe Ryan, Pablo Lopez, and Byron Buckton and and if you can mix in one of your latest articles about some specific needs they have which will be very telling in terms of if the poll ads give any sense about this team at all. Yeah. Well, I mean, Buckston’s got the full no trade clause. Um, and he’s been pretty steadfast in his loyalty to the Twins. He says, you know, there was a reason I requested the no trade clause. I want to finish my career here. My family likes it here. I do wonder at some point he’s shown incredible loyalty to them. But, you know, everyone’s got a limit. And if they keep shedding payroll and shedding talent and just go into a multi-year rebuild, he’s going to be 32 next year. Does he, you know, does his loyalty change at all or is he just so steadfast in wanting to remain with the Twins? I think that’s an interesting question. You know, he’s always answered it. I don’t want to go anywhere, but who knows if that changes. In terms of Ryan and Lopez, I’m of the opinion since the trade deadline that that’s just inevitable. To me, you don’t do what they did at the trade deadline in terms of trading players, trading talent, shedding future salaries, and then stop in the middle. And you know, Pablo Lopez in particular is going to make 21 a.5 million for each of the next two years and they might only have $110 million payroll and the team you know are you wasting sort of the two years valuable years of a frontline starter and particularly with Joe Ryan who’s going to be even cheaper and is coming off a all-star year. If you’ve already done half of the rebuild, if you’ve already done half of a fire sale, I just have a hard time assuming that they’re going to halt it at that point. And then like you said, I wrote a couple days ago, you know, the Lopez and Ryan situations, if they trade them, obviously they’re not trying to be competitive in 2026 or probably 2027. But even on like a smaller scale, they just have these gaping roster holes, which is as a result of the fire sale, like they have no bullpen whatsoever. They traded their top five relievers. If you look at their first base DH situations, which is the easiest spot to find a big veteran bat, they have nothing. I mean, Cody Clemens was their first baseman down the stretch. And I’m not trying to be mean to him, but he was a waiver claim and he’s kind of a, you know, a bouncearound guy. And they they need a backup c like they need a backup catcher. And if they trade Jeffers, too, then they just need catcher period. They might have to get AJ out of retirement now that I think about it. But let’s do it. Let’s do it. Yeah. How’s knees, AJ? Great. Let’s do it. I’ll play tomorrow. Let’s go. Could you do 18 innings in a in a World Series game if you had to right now? Come on, bro. Come on, bro. Next morning might be kind of bad. That’s a clown. That’s a clown question. Clown question. I would like I would personally like to see it. Uh but those are the the real tells which is are they even going to kind of address the obvious weaknesses of this roster? Cuz if they don’t at least go out and get two or three veteran relievers, that is basically waving a sign that says we don’t care about next season. If they don’t find some veteran bat to play first base and maybe DH to jump into the middle of a lineup that has really struggled for a year and a half now, that is another sign that they just are worried about getting the payroll low, shedding talent. And so the Lopez and Ryan situations are the big ones. Those are the headliners. That’ll tell you everything. I mean, no team that expects to contend trades frontline starters under team control like that. But even lower on the scale than that, I think the bullpen is going to be the biggest tell. like they have no bullpen basically at this point. And if they don’t at least if they’re not at least willing to go spend 105 million to add two or three kind of setup caliber veteran arms, that is essentially telling the fan base we don’t we don’t care at all about next

AJ Pierzynski, Erik Kratz, and Scott Braun react to breaking news on the Washington Nationals naming 33-year-old Blake Butera as manager (youngest MLB skipper in 50+ years), what it says about the Nats’ timeline, and how it fits into a fast-moving managerial carousel with openings/hires around the league (Atlanta Braves, San Diego Padres, Colorado Rockies). Then The Athletic senior writer Aaron Gleeman joins to analyze the Minnesota Twins decision to hire Derek Shelton, the familiarity factor with Rocco Baldelli’s old staff, what shrinking payroll could mean for 2026–27 competitiveness, how the Twins will sell this to fans, and potential roster dominoes (Joe Ryan, Pablo López, Byron Buxton).

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