Historical Comparisons for 2025 Seattle #Mariners | #SeattleSports

Historical Comparisons for 2025 Seattle #Mariners | #SeattleSports

The two that jump out to me the most in my lifetime are the 2012 Seahawks, right, who went to Atlanta after beating Washington. Similar to this, this Mariner team, they got hot. They won every game in December. They blew out a couple of teams, three teams in a row in December. Buffalo, Arizona with the famous cake on the head situation and uh and one other in there as well. And like they were great. I mean, they were they were blowing teams out. They beat Washington in a weird bad weather, bad field game where RG3 got hurt and Steven Hoska got hurt and somehow somebody named Ryan Longwell came back to kick for them the next. Anyway, they end up losing in gut-wrenching fashion in Atlanta as they were 31 seconds away from victory and allowed the Falcons to go back and kick another field goal. It was shocking. Nobody thought that would happen in that moment. There was no way 31 seconds was enough, but it was. and it was devastating except that there was a lot of hope because the team had, you know, started to really build something and put it together. So, I think that’s a a pretty fair comp in Seattle sports history. In my own history and and kind of going to baseball, this felt and certainly, you know, listening to a lot of the national narrative afterwards, a lot like 2003 in the uh 03 ALCS where Red Sox and Yankees played game seven just like this. Uh it was the eighth inning, not the seventh, but you know, Pedro Martinez had pitched seven and a third. They had a 4-1 lead, 5-1 lead, I think a 5-1 lead. And you know, he all the analytics said he’s done it 100 pitches. And they just kept leaving them in and leaving them in, leaving them in. And it was a hit and then another hit and then another hit and then another hit and the next thing you know it was tied. And similarly, you know, there was Mike Timlin and Alan Embry and Scott Williamson all waiting in the pen patiently and instead none of them come in and they blow the game eventually losing a few innings later on the Aaron Boone uh walk-off home run. So those those were the two that jumped out to me as being the most similar in my life. I’m sure others will have their own. The good news because both of those were heartbreaking, devastating losses. You remember how mad I was the next day, Brock, after the Atlanta loss? Um, I nearly had the cops called on me during the um during the 03 ALCS. So, I can sympathize, Lyall, with some of your problems. But I do remember driving home later that night and thinking, you know, as bad as this is, and as embarrassed as I am that somebody has threatened to call the cops on me for being so loud, I do think that, you know, there’s some hope and something was built and there need to be some changes. But you’re not miles and miles away. And I would hope that Mariners fans don’t look at this and go, “Oh, the team is nowhere close. You didn’t get blown out by Toronto. You didn’t get blown out by anybody in the American League.” I don’t know what would have happened against LA. And that’s maybe another conversation, but you’re not miles and miles away. You were a couple of decisions, a couple of at bats, a couple of moments away. And I do think it’s important to remember that the 2012 Seahawks won the Super Bowl the next year. Not by being passive, not by sitting around and waiting for it to happen, but by going out and signing not just Cliff Ail, but Cliff Averil and Michael Bennett. And those two guys led the team in sacks the next year, led the team in sacks in the postse in the pre in the playoffs the next year. and obviously were a huge part of the reason they went on the run that they did over the next few seasons. The 2003 Red Sox also were not passive. They did not bring back the same group and just hope to run it back and make it work. They kept the nucleus together in their case. They needed to change managers and I don’t think that’s the case here. But I but that was part of it for them. They also went out and acquired Kurt Schilling and made some other changes. So, you know, Kurt Schilling was kind of a big thing. He was a guy that had already been a World Series hero and he was once again the next year for the Red Sox. As for the Grady Little element of it, it is interesting. And again, I wrote about this, you can read it at Seattle Sports. Sorry for the long siloquy here, Brock, but I’ll I’ll give the mic up here in just a moment. No, I’m here. I appreciate that. I’ll give it up here in a moment. But I do want to make this point because there is some similarity between Dan Wilson and Grady Little. And that’s going to sound on its on its surface unfair to Dan because Grady Little’s name I think has been bismerched a little bit because all anyone remembers of Grady is the final moment where he refused to pull Pedro and had the deer in the headlights look and and he you know gets fired for it a couple of weeks later. Grady Little was an incredibly great clubhouse leader. a guy who took a fractured organization when he came in. And I don’t want to get too deep into the history of Dan Duket and Jimmy Williams and everybody else that was in that clubhouse, but it was a mess. And he came in and fixed it cuz he’s a good dude. Everybody liked Grady Little. Everybody who was around Grady Little liked him just like everyone who’s around Dan Wilson likes him. And he gave the players an opportunity to lead their own clubhouse and did a lot of things that were necessary at that time to get that team to a new level. his strength was not the in-game management. And at that point, you’re also talking about a statistical revolution in baseball that a guy like Grady was not necessarily equipped for nor interested in. So, they went out and they got Terry Francona who was able to do both of those things. I don’t think the Mariners need to do that. That is not the point of the story. But I do think it is it might be important for them to find someone to pair with Dan in that room and in that dugout whose strength is the in-game managerial decisions that fit with the way the front office wants it done. And I I’m more and more convinced after yesterday’s conversation that they’re not not that they’re not on the same page, but that there is some level of indecision right now about do you want to be an old school team or do you want to be a new school modern team? And there’s some some real benefits to both. But having everyone know when and where they want to do those things, I think would be important. And I do think that that might be an opportunity for them to bring in a strategist to help with some of these moments. Yeah, I think all of that is fair. And this again, we just talked about the seven months on the job for the Seahawks and these guys and all being on the same page. And you know, obviously it’s a little longer than that over the entirety of the baseball season, but it was year one for Dan and year one for Manny next to him in that capacity. Well, not really year one for Manny coming back to it. Manny had been the bench coach and has been a manager twice. Yes. But had he been with Danny as a as the No, he was a third base third base coach. That’s right. So, their first time together in those capacities and yeah, I think all of those things will be up for some consideration cuz over the course of the year, and I think it got a little bit better in the second half, it was choppy. I think most observers and and most people around the team would would kind of say that some of that in-game decision- making was really choppy early kind of settle down and then you know as the games do speed up and the moments get bigger are there some things that you can go back and evaluate the whole process of it and gosh can we can we do this better how do we take this next step like Mike McDonald did year one to year two and and hired a firm to evaluate him and how he presents and how he talks and and I think Mike delegating to to some of the others to to handle some of the communication to bring people even closer together and to and for Mike to understand that man I got to be a better CEO and not just a better play caller. So I think there will certainly have to be evaluation with with all of those things in the offseason. Just as you’re going to evaluate your roster and and you know get into contract negotiations with with Naylor’s team and and begin that process, I would have to imagine you’re going to do the same in the coaching capacity as well. Well, I think so. I mean, it’s one of those situations where you kind of look at, okay, what were what were the problems over the course of the season and did they re rear their head in the postseason? Right. Right. And hitter hitting with runners in scoring position was one of those problem during the regular season problem during the postseason probably going to get looked at frankly starter starting pitch. Right. I mean they were 13th in starter erra and during the regular season and they had some real big problems with their starting pitching in the postseason and they’re going to have to figure out was that just health or is there a bigger underlying concern there that they’ve got to deal with. So, like there’s some very real self self- scouting things that need to go down. And I think that, you know, again, in-game decision-m was a challenge at times for them during the regular season. We had a lot of those conversations during the year. You’re right, Brock, it did seem to get a little better. And there were some moments where I thought it was perfectly executed during the postseason and then some others that unfortunately are going to be looked at. You know, of the six games they lost, there were at least questions about decision-m in four of them that didn’t end up working out for them. That’s a that’s significant and something that maybe there’s a way to to put the right people around Dan to help bolster him in those moments because I just it didn’t end right. When is going to be the season season ending presser you think? I don’t know they’re going to do that. They’ve done that a little differently and I know a couple years ago after that one they’ve changed some of that course but I would I would imagine you’re going to get some updates like I I would think that and I would hope that Bryce Miller goes in and gets that that that that loose body removed immediately like ASAP, right? I will be really curious to hear what guys battled through what over the second half of the season that we don’t hear about. They’re not going to use as an excuse and explanation. I think something’s got to be up with Logan. I I I don’t think Logan was ever, you know, Logan coming back after that injury. I would agree. You know, is is Luis still Spire, right? we know was banged up and fighting through like I I hope we get some semblance of that to add to the closure of it to maybe further understand why maybe decisions were made like yeah actually guys were we’re going through stuff that you know we don’t disclose and they don’t want to share and we not going to give our opponent any insight into but I have a feeling that some of these guys a little bit more banged up at the end of that long long journey that maybe no I agree with you Brock I I do think that all that will come out and we’ll have a little bit more info on it Mike in federal way saying, “Hey, I’d like to see a hybrid, old school, new school team. I don’t think settling on one or the other is right for the Mariners.” I I I understand that. Mhm. You may be right. And Jeff was saying the same thing yesterday. I guess what I would say though is that’s fine as long as everyone knows when and where each of those philosophies are being used. I think the biggest problem I have with Monday night is that I felt like at different points in the game, they relied on different philosophies, if that makes sense. Like I I if you’re going to I’ve said this again. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. If you’re going to pull George Kirby after four, then you need to have Munoz ready for the seventh. Like, you have to say like at that point, you’re using a new school philosophy. You’re you’re playing the modern postseason game. You’re pulling your pitcher early. Seventh. I I I I didn’t say the top of the seventh. Have him have him heated up. Brock’s got to be ready for the top of the order. He has to be. Once you give up that walk, he’s got to get hot. Yeah. Once you give up that walk, there’s a good possibility you’re going to reach. I mean, you’re going to reach top of the order without a double play. You’ve got to have Munoz up and ready. He that is the leverage point of the game and he can go two innings from there cuz he hasn’t pitched the day before or the day before that. Like you you you have to you have to recognize the change in the way the game has been made. And you brought that upon it yourself by making a move that I liked by taking Kirby out when you did. But you can’t do one without the other. And that’s where there just has to be some level of alignment of, hey, this is the philosophy. We’re going to pull them early if we have the opportunity to do so. But then that means we’re going to move everybody up one and let Bryce Miller or somebody else close out the game if we get there. You have to it has to be a cohesive, you know, a cohesive philosophy. It doesn’t have to be all new school or all old schools, but it’s got to be cohesive.

Mike Salk shares how he believes ’25 Mariners compare in a sports historyt context, drawing from his memories of the 2012 Seahawks, 2003 Red Sox, and the decisions those teams made during and AFTER falling short the year before reaching their ultimate goal.

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