Tyler Shough QB switch: The timing, the expectations and the consequences

Tyler Shough QB switch: The timing, the expectations and the consequences

[Music] Welcome into the Saints Insider podcast. Today is Wednesday, October the 29th. I’m Zach Yuing with Rod Walker, Luke Johnson, and Matthew Paris. Our team covering the Saints, and we have a new quarterback to uh to talk about, a new QB1, Tyler Shuck, officially named a starter yesterday. There were reports that came out that the team confirmed it. Going to get to go talk to Tyler for the first time as QB1 uh later today. And I, you know, Matt, this is we we’ve been talking about this. When would the appropriate time be? And the Saints determined it’s right now. Yeah. I mean, this on paper is a tough matchup for him and them. And it is a tough matchup, but I don’t think that matters as much as where the Saints are at this point of the season. They’re 1-7. Spencer Rattler had regressed the last two weeks. Shock didn’t light the world on fire in Sunday’s game, but I think he gave them enough to feel confident with him going forward. And so, they have to see what they have in their second round rookie and this is a this is a big game for him even though it’s the first start. I’m interested to see how he does because the Rams have a heck of a pass rush. It it gives an air of freshness to the season. A one and seven season now for now. Yeah. Yeah, for now. For now. But you do get sort of the newness again of okay, well, what does this guy have? And I think how how he does changes the trajectory of this franchise. Yeah. I mean, one way or another, right? Like we’re we’re going to get probably an answer on on what they’re going to do in April next year within these next couple months. If he goes out there and he and he plays and he plays well and there’s reason to think like like, hey, maybe we can win with this guy, like I think you’re in a really interesting position as a franchise. Um, I don’t think even in in those circumstances, I don’t think that necessarily like eliminates the opport or the chance of them taking a quarterback with the with their first round pick, but it does at least prevent or present some interesting options. Um, you know, some of the better players in this draft are non-quarterbacks. Uh, if you feel like you have a guy you can build around, then I think you have you have a couple different ways you can go. Um, but you know, the important thing is to find out if he is that guy. And if he isn’t, then like then we’re then we’re looking at really really really interesting times next April. What does he have to do, Rod? I mean, he he can’t just be Spencer Rattler. Hey, he’s okay. And and he’s not the reason you’re losing games. Like we I think we need to see more than that from Chuck. Is that how you feel? Yeah, that’s exactly how I feel. Um cuz I think with Spencer, I mean, you saw, you know, just a kind of kind of average NFL quarterback and I don’t I think he needs to be above average and um as far as the decision, like I I thought they would wait until the by-week, but I do understand why they went ahead and did it now. I mean, with you know, Rattler had thrown what six I he had six turnovers in six quarters. I mean, at that point, I think you you have to make the switch and we you do need to see what you got in Tyler Shook. So, uh I think he needs to play well, though. I mean, he needs to take care of the ball. needs to be able to get into the end zone, which something Rather kind of struggled with. You know, they struggled in the red zone and all that’s not on Rather, I don’t think. I mean, I think I mean, there were a lot of drops and a lot of other things that went wrong with this team, but I think you do need to see um Shil Sher Tyler see Tyler, you know, get the ball to the end zone, just be able to, you know, move the offense a little bit better than than Spencer R was able to. I think I think it’s it’s like I I don’t know if he needs to be better than than Rattler. I like I think he needs to show traits that he can be a high level quarterback. He can win some games. Yeah. That you can that you can develop him. Yeah. Right. Rattler developed. I don’t know how much like it’s probably not fair to say about Spencer Rattler is he’s only a second year player. I don’t know how much more you’re going to get out of him. I think there’s like there’s more highlevel trait potential there with Shuck. And if they go if they go one and eight with him as the the starting quarterback, but he does some some really good things like we can build off that like maybe that’s enough. I don’t know. It’s it’s like they’re they’re in such a interesting position. Like I I don’t think we’ve I don’t think we’ve seen this from a lot of NFL teams. I mean I think the worst thing that could happen is they beat the Titans, the Jets, and the Panther. like they beat up on these bad teams, they convince themselves, “Oh, Tyler Shuck’s our guy.” And then it’s not that like you have to pay real close attention to how he’s developing, to what he’s actually doing, and whether the upside is is there to, let’s say, okay, they win some games now that you’re not drafting the first or the second best quarterback in this class, you’re drafting the third one. Is that third quarterback, whoever it is, is he better than Tyler Shuck? That’s kind of the question they’re going to have to ask themselves because that that’s a danger I think some teams can fall into. But th this is this is a real really pivotal stretch for Shock. Like you wouldn’t normally say that about a rookie. You you would give him time to develop, but because of the situation the Saints are, he has to show stuff right away. I think I think it’s a pivotal stretch for the franchise itself. I mean, it’s there’s a lot going into this, which is kind of what what you said lead into it, but Yeah. And we’ll we’ll we’ll talk about the trade deadline upcoming also because that’s part of this conversation. Uh first I want to let you know that the Saints Insider is brought to you by Bank Plus. From small business to big business, home loans to bank anywhere technology. Bank Plus is here for New Orleans. New deposit customers can reach out today to learn about incredible rate specials. Learn more at bankplus.net. Member FDIC equal housing lender. I I think it’s also important to remember as we have this discussion what you were just saying Matt, he has to show something, but quarterbacks in general have their biggest leap between year one and year two. We saw it with Rattler this year. He was much better this year, I think, than he was last year. So, I don’t know if there’s a set number of wins or a set number of um touchdowns or anything like that, but but like both of you made the point, he’s just got to show that there’s more there. He’s got to show something with the possibility to to kind of dream on. Yeah. Like like I said, high high level traits like can you affect the game with your legs, which I think he can uh in the right scenario. Um like can you make the big time throws? Can you like is your processing good enough? Um you know, there are definitely going to be some some games where it looks really rough and I think that happens with a lot of rookie quarterbacks. Are there going to be games where you look like you can be you can be a guy like you can be somebody we really can build around? Um I think that’s the that to me is the bar. Like I don’t think you can go into this like did did he lead us to four wins in the back half of the year? You know because it might be might be a game against the the Titans where they run for you 220 yards because the Titans run defense sucks and Chuck only has to complete 10 passes and they win a game. you know, it like he needs to show that like he he has traits that can develop into like a like a high level quarterback. And if he doesn’t show that, then like I think you have to be in the position where you’re looking to quarterback in the first round next year. It’s not fair, but it’s a it’s the position the franchise is in right now. And this is a low bar, but he has to show you guys can stay healthy, too. I mean, yeah, right now going into the season, like the Louisville season is the outlier for him. Now, he has said, and I think rightfully so, that some of his past injuries have been more just like simple breaks or they’re not freak accidents. Yeah. Not ligament stuff, but shoot, ask, you know, Taesm Hill. These things kind of uh pile up eventually. And if he can’t stay durable, then I think that’ll make the Saints decision a lot easier. But he has, like I said before, he he just has a lot to prove going into the last nine games here. I was thinking like when I was driving in like the worst case scenario is if something he tweaked something this Sunday, then you got to go back to Rattler, right? And you still don’t know what you got in Shuck. And I don’t know. I just No doubt. That’s what you don’t need. That’s That’s the worst case. That’s the reason why they’re playing them though. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Which I I think we’ll get into. I mean, you’re playing them because you have to see them. Yeah. And if he can’t stay healthy, then I mean that’s that’s that’s a completely different scenario. But the Saints had to put him in there at some point. It won’t be any I mean Sunday is going to be his you look the schedule. I mean he may not play anybody better than what he’s playing. Yeah. At Tampa is the only other game against like a playoff team. I think I’m trying unless I’m forgetting somebody. But you have at the Rams and at Tampa Bay and outside of that everybody they play is like are the Falcons good? Nobody are the Panthers are four and four. Yeah, the Panthers are four and four. The Falcons. the Falcons and the Panthers on a week- toeek basis can be two completely different teams. Um, but outside of that, it’s it’s more bottom feeders. And so it is interesting this is the timing. Um, we talked about that a little bit. I I do want to look at it in terms of Spencer Rattler because he took some strides this year. We talked about that. One of the big strides he took was that he stopped turning the ball over so much. Then that came back. Do you think the timing was always going to be around this window right here before after the by-week or did Spencer Rattler speed things up by starting to regress in that area? Well, no, I think he sped things up. I mean, I think he could have I think Rattler would have started against the Rams for sure and I think he would have started against Carolina. I mean, and at that point, you got the bye-week, you get um Tyler Shuck, you know, an extra week basically get ready. To me, I think that was the timeline, but I do think Spencer Rally definitely sped it up these last um six quarters. Yeah, I I mean, I do think there was a there was a universe where Rattler was just started the whole season. Uh but like he would have had to like you can’t continue going to him knowing that you have to get a look at Shuck, knowing that you’re going to have a top five draft pick. Like it like if they’re if they’re one and seven right now, um like there’s there’s no real reason to keep to keep looking at them, right? Well, if they had come up with a play to beat Arizona, a play to beat San Francisco, a play to beat New England, if they were three and four, right? Yeah, it’s a different story, but they’re not. And you look at the I think Kell Moore was being honest when he said the reason he pulled Rattler wasn’t necessarily because of the the turnovers, which is like it’s part of it, but like look at his his last 18 drives. These are uh the Bears and Buccaneers games. Two touchdowns, one field goal, one missed field goal. Both those field goal drives came out short fields after a turnover. six punts, one turnover on downs, three fumbles, two of which were were Spencer Rattler losing control of the ball and four picks. That’s three scores in 18 drives. Like the offense as a whole was not was not really functional anymore. Um, and part of it was the turnovers, but like, you know, I think there was there was more. It was it was like that last drive that they had before they put Shuck in the game. Not on not on Ratliff per se, but they had a delay a game, two holding penalties on a on a three and out, you know, like that stuff can’t happen. So, um I do think that the offense as a whole was stepping back. Rattler contributing to that and uh and they need to see what they got in Tyler Shock. They got nine games left and that’s you have eight games with Rattler and nine games with Shock. You get to see what both can do and and you get to put yourself in a position where you know what you’re going to do next April. Yeah. And there’s a scenario where this could have happened even sooner if Rattler had regressed sooner. Like I actually think it’s I do think his regression has a lot to do with it because what he showed at the beginning of the season was you always wondered what the ceiling was, but there were some promising traits there particularly after the New England game that he played really well then. And so you’re like oh well how can he build on this? And unfortunately for him, he did not build on it and he had his two worst games and now he he’s going back to the bench. The the the line for Spencer Rattler like was always going to be very thin no matter what they said like in terms of his actual performance. If he started to slip just enough, then it opened the door because of who he had behind him. And I think Kellen Moore did a pretty good job of managing that in the sense that like when they were losing games and he was playing well, he didn’t entertain that conversation. But if they’re losing games and he wasn’t playing well, then why do you like what are they doing there? And so they realized that and now it’s Tyler Shuck time. Is is Spencer Rattler done as a QB1 in the NFL? I mean, obviously injury, whatever, he could move in, but um I don’t know. I you know I think if if Shuck comes out and plays well enough to um you merit a longer look, right? Like I think the Saints would would have to like entertain the idea of of trading Rattler when his value is probably the highest. Like there’s there could be a team out there that is like, you know, he could be a bridge quarterback for us. You know, I I don’t think his I don’t think his time as a starter is necessarily done. And um but you know I I I think that it’s still it’s still just like really really hard to see him being a highlevel like top 10 quarterback. Like he could be a functional starting NFL quarterback, but like I it’s he’d have to be really in the right situation with right play caller, right offense around him, that that sort of stuff. I think he definitely did enough to show that he belongs in the league. I mean I think stick around. For sure. Yeah. What about what about for this season? Let’s say let’s say Shuck um you know he’s not going to get benched for a bad game Sunday. I think expectations are pretty low for one thing against that Rams defense. We’ll talk more about that on Friday, but it let’s say he turns the ball over two or three times each of the next three games and the Saints offense is not any better. Is there a scenario in which this is not a permanent move? Leaving injury aside, I mean obviously if there’s an injury that’s another conversation, but is there a universe in which the Saints do have to go back to Rattler because of Shuck’s performance? I think if Shuck is just terrible and so bad that his confidence is like like you can’t keep this guy out there. I mean I think there is that that scenario, but he’d have to be really bad, I think. Yeah. I mean, Kell Morsy doesn’t want to flip-flop, but like but I do I mean I think there’s a it would have to be bad, but it it would have to be like like disaster, right? Right. Um which like I mean possible. It’s possible. Yeah. Totally possible. And I guess that the the fact of the matter is if that happens then you have your answer. Like Tyler Shuck’s not the guy. and and now we can go with Rattler and try to save some face and win a couple games down the stretch knowing that we need it. It is just a crazy scenario though. I I I mean they have a young quarterback who played pretty well. Um who in most other in most other instances like this like Rattler would have just started the entire season, but like because the Saints draft the Tyler Shock with the number 40 overall pick because they are in line to have right now if the season ended right now they’d have the number one overall pick next year. like all all of that stuff these all these these different uh like variables are coming into play where they they they have to make a switch, you know, they they have to they have to see what he can do because they might have to take another quarterback next year and and this is just so unique. You just don’t see that like when when mid round picks surprise and they get starting jobs like a lot of times they play like Davis Mills played for the the Houston Texans. I think he started for like two years there, right? Um, and Rattler probably played at a equivalent or better level than Davis Mills played at with the with the Texans, but he didn’t have he didn’t have a second round pick waiting behind him that was drafted by a new regime. You know, it was it’s just um it’s a really really fascinating scenario that you just don’t see very often in the NFL. It’s why I don’t think Spencer Rley is probably going to get another chance at least to be a team starter because like what team is clamoring to to give Davis Mills another shot or ring the bell? I knew this was coming somehow. Uh I was going to bring him up myself or Bailey Zappy. Like I actually think Spencer Rattler not being a firstrounder really hurts him in in this scenario because like like you look I wrote about this the other day that the year of the second chance quarterback. Uh Daniel Jones, M. Jones, um Sam Darnold Baker Mayfield, all firstrounders, all pretty high first rounders. Like I would bet Anthony Richardson starts another game before Spencer Rattler does for somebody ju just because someone is more willing to take a chance. Yes. And I think someone will trade for Spencer Rattler if that’s the way this goes. But they will trade for him to be their nice insurance backup rather than okay, we’re going to give this kid a chance. Maybe we’ll let him compete, but I don’t think a team is going to go into a training camp with saying, “All right, let’s see if we can get any more out of Spencer Rattler.” Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. Like, like Matt Flynn, Matt Flynn was, you know, went into a season as a starting quarterback for the Seattle Seahawks and he didn’t he had to beat out Russell Wilson, you know, who was a third round pick and that obviously turned into Russell Wilson there. like it’s happened in the past and I think teams are maybe changing their their tune even though all these examples he brought up are recent examples like Anthony Richardson’s been been terrible when he’s gotten on the field and on top of that there there’s like the taking himself off the field for a play like NFL guys hate that stuff NFL guys would look at what Rattler’s done on film and be like there’s something there right um I mean I don’t know I don’t know who would be like in a situation where they’re like we we want to see what he’s got as a bridge option. Like that’s just a hypothetical. Well, and you look at like Darnold, the only reason Darnold, maybe not, maybe he would have gotten a chance at some point, but he got a chance to start again because JJ McCarthy got hurt and then it was Darnold and then it was, “Oh, well, wait a minute. He’s actually still got something here. He’s figured something out.” So, you know, there’s scenarios where you go someplace as a backup or an insurance policy and then it just works out to where you get another chance and get to show. Yeah. Darnold Darnold’s now on his fifth team. I mean, Gino Smith was on his third team when he when he ended up becoming a guy and that was another injury related thing where he showed what he could do when when Russ got hurt. Um, yeah. I mean, there’s there’s a lot of different variables that go into it, but like I don’t I don’t think the book is completely closed on Spencer Rattler. Um, even though maybe it is, maybe it is here, right? I mean, I don’t I don’t think it’s closed on him potentially becoming a good quarterback. Like, I I think he has the talent to do so. I just think teams are generally not gonna go out on a limb to try and rescue that guy’s career. Like he’d have to kind of be in that darn situation. I could see that he’s a guy who hey you’re going to start the first six weeks while we bring our draft pick along and and then you know it’s will sound familiar to Spencer Rattler but then sometimes that turns into more like it did for Darnold. But see, like I don’t even think like I I don’t think like the him serving as the bridge for the rookie is more of a viable option. I I think it would have to be you go into him with the number two and then the guy gets hurt. The guy gets hurt and then he like seizes the job that way. Okay, so that kind of closes the book on on Spencer Rattler for now. Uh we’re going to take a break. When we come back, we’ll talk about what to expect, what to watch for from Tyler Shuck, and also changes that may be happening around him with the trade deadline right after this on the Saints Insider. Banking has come to a crossroads. Do you want to bank with an actual bank with actual people? You know, one that you can walk into or drive through, get real help from a real person. Or do you want a bank that lives inside your phone? A digital bank that gives you control of your money anywhere, anytime. Well, why not both? [Music] Bank Plus, a partner in your corner, wherever that may be. Did they ask you to do the commercial, too? Uh, yeah, but they just gave me um one line. Bet like a Caesar. Like, we’re going to sit here and we’re going to tell them how Caesar’s sports book is just so easy to use that you can watch and bet thousands of sports events, even some NFL games. They’ll probably show us betting on our favorite players and teams at all the Vegas hotspots, too. Like we have time for that montage. I told him I couldn’t do it. They couldn’t afford me. And welcome back to the Saints Insider podcast. We’re talking Tyler Shuck here. Encourage you to subscribe to the Saints Insider on YouTube, Apple Podcast, or Spotify. Leave us a review, hit the like button, leave a comment. Let us know what you think your expectations are for Tyler Shuck. All right, we’ll talk more specifically about the Rams in Friday’s episode, but um just in general, guys, what do you expect from Tyler Shuck? Will this offense change at all with him under center? Um and what should reasonable expectations be? Uh I mean, I don’t think it’ll change much. I I like I think even though him and Spencer are are different players physically, I think their skill sets are kind of similar. Um Spencer’s maybe like a little bit more elusive in the pocket, a little bit more of a kind of natural creator, but I do think if there’s like some schemed up stuff to put Shuck on the move, like he’s he’s a really good runner. Um you a lot of their their strengths as passers are very similar. Um, you both got, you know, big arms, are able to throw those like kind of deep outside, like outside breaking throws. Um, so I don’t think too much will change offensively. Um, I think it’s going to be really interesting to see what they do against the Rams. Like the Rams secondary is getable, but like their their front is really sick. Uh, Byron Young has nine sacks. I think he’s number three in the league in sacks. Um Jared Verse is obviously super talented uh really good rusher in his own right. He’s got four sacks. Rams are coming off a buy and they’re still number two in the NFL in sacks, 26. Um yeah, that’s that’s like it’s like four a game. So um that that I mean that’s that’s going to be that’s going to be the the big thing this week. Like Shuck is we’ve seen him when he’s at his worst. He’s he’s getting pressure in his face and um the Rams are really really really good at bringing that. Yeah, that that’s the thing I’m most interested to see with Tyler Sha over the next nine games. It starts with this one is how does he handle an NFL pocket because I think that was kind of the the barrier to entry for maybe why like a lot of the one of of all the reasons he didn’t win the starting job. That was kind of maybe the most pressing one is he was just a tad too slow. like he got faster as camp went along, but Spencer Rattler was ahead of him in that area. And how much time has he been working on it with the the practice or with the scout team? Can you get better at that if you’re not in real life action? And um it’s just going to be really fascinating because the Rams, the worst the worst that this offensive line has looked this season has not been in any game. It was in that one single joint practice where the Rams just crushed them over and over and it was it was a tough day for that line and uh I don’t I kind of think the same thing it might happen again Sunday. I I do like it was interesting to see like how decisive he was in this last game though. He was getting the ball out fast. His time to throw was like 2.48 seconds. It was the third fastest across the NFL according to NextGen stats this week. Um, you know, so I think that will probably it will probably have to continue this week against Rams. Um, and even some of his I that that quick time to throw was even on some of his deep shots that that one he just barely overthrew to Shahed. That was a six-man pressure with Antoine Winfield coming in on a safety blitz. Uh, and you know, he got the ball out quick and you to the right guy. It was just a little bit overthrown. Um, but the fact that it was even close, I mean, Sheed was six yards into his thout route when he let that go and it was like a deep shot downfield. So, um, yeah, I think he’s I think that was enough to me to say that he’s has grown in that department, but I I mean, we’ll have to see when when a team is able to scheme with the understanding that he’s going to be in the game with the understanding that it’s going to be zero zero and they’re not going to be playing a, you know, like a no big plays defense. um be be really fascinating to see how that unfolds. Well, two weeks ago I was saying, man, you don’t want to feed him to Dennis Allen’s defense and now here we are feeding him to the to the Rams defense, which is interesting. The next game is Carolina, which has one of the worst pass rushes in the NFL. So, it’s you’re going to go from one extreme to the other. But I I thought Matt raised interesting point, Rod, and that is we did like the first two weeks of camp, it was like, man, Rattler’s way ahead. This is not even going to be close. And I think to Shuck’s credit, he did catch make up some ground right over the month of training camp and the preseason. He didn’t ultimately catch Rattler, but I do wonder if some of that growth has continued. And to Luke’s point, he’s getting the ball out a little bit faster and making, you know, more decisive action um in the pocket than he was in camp. We we could potentially see some growth here. Yeah, we could. But I mean that’s one thing Kell Moore always talked about was you know just developing him and you know we don’t get to see any of that stuff in practice. Like we don’t know how much he has developed other than what we saw um Sunday. So um yeah this week we’ll get a better gauge of if he’s gotten how much better he’s gotten. The other part of this too is Kell Moore is in his rookie years as a head coach and he’s one and seven and things have not gone well. This was his dude. This was the guy he wanted in the draft. I mean, as I I’m sure that there were other decision makers involved, but ultimately they decided not to go up and go after a Jackson Dart. They they didn’t want Shador Sanders. They didn’t want any of these other guys. Dart was the guy they wanted. And so this, you know, you don’t want to jump to conclusions, but Shock Shuck was a guy that wanted Dart. I’m sorry. Shuck was the guy they wanted. It’s a little bit of a referendum on Kell Moore, too. I think how he does the rest of the year. Yeah. I I mean I I guess I I think people kind of understand it’s not a firstrounder that there’s not like that those great expectations like I don’t know Will Levis it’s like kind of more in that feel uh for me. But I do think there is like it’ll be a test of what Kell Moore can do as a head coach. How does he help uh a rookie and go about this offense? Like that’s something Kellen even said after last game is that feels like he has to do a better job of helping the offense and putting them in position where it’s not just okay I’m changing the quarterback and hoping that’s the the end all be all. I mean Taesm Hill played five snaps on Sunday like so you’re saying Kell should call the good plays for Tyler right? Yeah it’s Oh god. Yeah I forgot about that. Um, no. It’s just like there are things that I think he can do. I mean, I think as his offense like over the last half of the season, think it’ll get a little bit more aggressive. I think that was kind of some of the differences we saw in camp between Rattler and Shuck is Shuck had more of a willingness to rip it down the field. I also think that maybe comes with a little bit of inexperience on Shock’s part of trying to let it fly because he doesn’t know any better. Like I I feel like that was maybe some of the growth that Rattler showed from year one to year two. But because he knows what what’s the saying? He he doesn’t know what he knows or whatever. Doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. Yeah. And so like you’re just going to let it fly a little bit more and I think the Saints will be a little bit more aggressive on offense. And whether that’s actually better for their efficiency, I don’t know. We’ll see. All right, let’s pivot and talk trade market. There have been a few rumors. We talked last week about this. You say there was 10 guys who were listed as possible trade director now 11 was Caesar Ruiz national media Caesar Ruiz added to that list Trevor Penning too. Oh really? Yeah. Uh Connor or with Sports Illustrated. I mean so there’s there’s six days before the trade deadline is Tuesday afternoon. It’s a lot of guys who could move. My question is who who is legitimately like you guys are looking at as he’s more likely to be gone than not. Is there anybody in that column that you would put? Rashi had Adam Shfter mentioned this week which always gets a lot of attention that he could be a guy he’s gonna be a free agent which always also adds to um trade rumors. So is is Shahed that guy for you? Do you see another name that maybe is more likely to be traded or or or will the Saints just be more quiet? I mean I think for me it starts with the receivers. I I think those are their most uh like high value assets uh even more so than somebody like Alvin Chimera who’s you know making a lot of money. is on the wrong side of 30 and hasn’t been super productive this year. Um, I think the receivers are the the ones who who will probably generate generate the most interest, could get the most in return. Um, you know, so I I don’t think they’d trade both of them. I don’t know. I think they’ trade if if they did make a move, it’d be one. And I think Mickey um Mickey has always been the kind of person who’s you know his his philosophy is like we don’t trade good players but like they’re going to listen if if the return is right. So I just I I don’t know what what would be the right return for for those guys. It probably they could probably get more for a lav um than Shahed. Uh but like I don’t know if you get like a if you get a fourth for Shahed do you do it? If you get a third for him do you do it? I I don’t know. Um I what what’s he going to sign in free agency next year if he walks? Like is that are you going to get that comparable value back in a comp pick? You know, I just I don’t know. But I do think the the receivers are probably the ones to watch closely uh over the next week. And I put Brand Brandon Cooks in there as well. We didn’t really mention him, but because they still got Trey Palmer and Jaylen Poke. I mean, we don’t know how good they’re going to be, but you know, they’re kind of waiting in the wings. Vonlay also guys that receiver kind of makes you like hey somebody’s got to go. It definitely felt like they were bracing for the possibility of trading wonder one of these guys by by bringing both trading for Vle by claiming Trey Palmer by trading for Jaylen Poke. Um like doesn’t feel like all of those guys are going to be on the team next year. So it’s either to me it’s either they’re they’re bracing for the possibility trading one or losing one in free agency. You agree with that Matt? The receiver most likely? Yeah, I would say so. Um, I think it’d be a home run if they could move like Pete Warner just to clear up playing time for Danny Studsman, but I don’t know what team is actually willing to give up assets and what the Saints would be willing to take. There’s not a lot of like off ball linebacker trades in the NFL these days. So, the one the one team that kind of stands out to me with that is San Francisco. Yeah, because they’re they’re good. They’re they’re going to be getting their quarterback back soon. Um, Fred Warner is obviously like out for the year. Um, that would be the one team to like watch out for for Pete or you frankly for Deario. I think Deario makes a lot more sense for them. Yeah. Right. Like rather than Pete just so you could have that veteran that run the show for him that um but then it’s you know where does Deario stand with all this? Is he open to going to try and chase the ring? Like does does he want to stay in New Orleans? Like is Alvin the exception for how he feels about the Saints or you know his franchise of not wanting to move or I think Dear I put Dear Mario in that category too just because where he is in his career I don’t think he’s I don’t think he’s a ring chaser either at this point. I mean there was a point when Breeze was here when he thought he could get it but I don’t think he’s be kind of fun to watch him do it playoff games and stuff. I’m not trying to push him out the door but for sure. Yeah. Um, Deario would be a really interesting one. Um, I I certainly don’t think he wants to be traded even if the Saints are in this really bad situation as a football team. Like the community is really important to him. This is very close to where he’s from in Mississippi. Um, but like he’d probably have more fun on Sundays. Yeah. But if he’s ready to shut it down and this is his last year, you know, maybe he still say, you know what, let’s let’s swing for it. So the other position group would be the O line and and we’ll use this to sort of transition into our final topic which is going to be how do these trades affect Tyler Shuck? Let’s let’s bring these two conversations together because if you do trade a Rasheed Shahed or a Chris Olive or a Trevor Penning or a Caesar Ruiz or whoever you are affecting the team that is around Tyler Shuck and and of course all offseason we heard the discourse that we didn’t really get a fair look at Rattler because he was playing with backups. I mean, you trade enough guys, you’re you are going and of course there will be an injury or two as well. You are going to create the same situation for Tyler Shuck. Yeah, I think you can afford to part with one of the receivers because you did trade for Vele. Like he’s still your young now he hasn’t had a lot of production, but they haven’t featured him a lot as well. Like you need to see what you have in him. And so I think if they did trade Rasheed Jied it would and Crystal Lave would still be here. Like I agree with Luke, you can’t trade both unless the returns both phenomenal. But I just don’t think like I don’t think Gail Benson is the type of owner to be like, “We need as much as we can. Let’s let’s sell the assets.” Like sell sell. If you want to hit the bell here, I’m gonna bring up a Oh, man. You can’t help yourself, buddy. I can’t. So, I wasn’t even covering the team in this when these trans. Well, I I covered both say Washington. He did Washington. So, in 23, I’m pretty sure that the commanders did not want to trade Montas Sweat in addition to Chase Young, but they traded Chase Young for conditional third to San Francisco. and then they traded Sweat because they got a second round pick. And so that that’s the scenario where all right, we’re trading Chahhee for a third. Oh shoot, here’s a team calling about a offering a second. Do you do that? Is that better? But I I also like I think that would legitimately hurt your chances of evaluating Chuck, but you might also have to do it because you could still be better off as a franchise even if you don’t get a full evaluation of Shuck and you’re drafting a quarterback next year anyway and then you have these assets to surround your new quarterback with. Like it still could be better in the long run for them even if it’s not fair to Shuck. I I agree with that. But I think there’s a sliding scale of what you’re getting in return for these guys and at some I mean obviously if hey we’re going to give you a firstrounder okay I don’t care who we’re giving up then I’m taking it. So there is a point where they would take it. Where that point starts and ends is what we don’t know. And I do think that I think Mickey would probably would probably want a pretty significant assets back. Like he has he has a reputation for somebody who gives up too much in trades. Uh but like the return he got for Latimore last year was really really good. Um, but he’s been in the situation where he’s been chasing. Correct. You know, and so you are willing to overpay more in that. He’s he’s in a totally different situation. Yeah. And I I do I do think though that like he is going to ask for a lot in return for these guys. I I don’t I like it would it would surprise me just as much if they traded like both and Shahed or kept both of them, you know? Like I I do think that that they are going to want a pretty significant return because these guys I I mean just being frank, they’re both young players. Um I I mean Shahed is going to be a free agent, but like you could theoretically bring him back on on probably a contract that doesn’t pay him a whole lot. Like he’s not going to be a $25 million a year receiver. Um, so I mean they could just decide like you know what, like we’re gonna have these guys as part of a part of our organization moving forward because we didn’t get enough of a of an offer back in return. How do you think the veil trade factors in in terms of the compensation of what they might want for I think a lot of is different but Shahed specifically like if they get back a fourth and a seventh for Shahed which is basically what I mean it is what they gave up for Vale like is that bad optics is what you’re saying yeah is it cool with that like does should that affect or does it affect people don’t understand though that Vle is under team control for a lot longer than Shahit is and that changes the value of the player I but I do think there will be a little bit of blowback of oh my god you gave up the same thing for for V that you got for Rasheed Shahid. How could you do that? But I mean there’s an argument to be made. They could just get their fourth back from Denver for Shahed. The Broncos need a receiver. Like that’s not the worst. Yeah. Rod, it would be they would essentially be trading Shahed for Bailey straight up. It’d be funny. That that would be uh Rod, how do you I mean, how aggressive should they be knowing that maybe they’re affecting Tyler Shuck’s progress or at least their evaluation of his progress? I think I mean this team is you you you got to look at they need to be looking more longterm right now than short term. I think you can evaluate um Shuck. I mean, if if you don’t have Rasheed or Alive, I think you still can get a pretty decent evaluation of him and you’ll you you’ll have an idea of what you got. And again, like we said earlier, I mean, if if he’s not panning out and you have to get another quarterback, you have to do that. But I don’t think I don’t think one receiver affects that evaluation that that much. Yeah. I I mean, like, it’s not going to be the situation that Battler was in last year where he was throwing to Mason Tipton. Mason Typton and and like Marquez and Marquez Valdis Scantling who’s you know now on like his 12th team like you know it’s just like that was that was a a horror show last year. If you if you move one or even both of those guys I think you still have you still have like competent NFL players on the roster. You’re not thrown to Kevin Austin. You know, it’s like no shade against Kevin Austin, by the way. But, you know what I’m saying? Like it’s not or like a real like sliding doors or like very close to they’re not Well, they’re not going to be throwing to Typton and Kevin Austin two weeks later. What I’m saying what I’m saying is like they’re not going to have those guys out there for like 90% of the snaps like they did last year. Probably not. I mean, you add injuries to this and maybe but you can’t. But like still, you know, it’s it’s a it’s a different set of circumstances if you trade one of those guys. I would also say they’re already starting from a disadvantage because Eric McCoy is hurt again. Like that’s that was the thing that really doomed Rattler last season and you know I think Luke Fortner is probably better depth um than last year’s situation but man it hurts not to have McCoy again and that that factors into to Shuck as well. And I also think you can grade on a curve a little bit. I mean, as we did with Rattler last year where we said, “Okay, he didn’t have these things, but we we question a lot of the way he performed anyway.” And then, you know, he’s improved, but some of that’s been borne out this year as well. So, I I it’s not like it’s impossible to look at the film and say Tyler Shuck is playing well, but he’s having receivers who aren’t getting open, etc., etc., or he’s not getting time from his offensive line. I mean, you you can grade on a curve. Yeah. Okay. So, I think that’s going to do it for our show today. We will be back Friday. We’ll we’ll dig more into this kind of nightmarish matchup for the Saints against the LA Rams on uh on Sunday and and talk more Tyler Shock and and by that point we’ll talk to him, have a little more info about what he thinks and what Kell Moore thinks and uh we will join you then. So our producers today were Norman Bell and Molly Ballinger. He’s Rod Walker, Luke Johnson, Matthew Paris. I’m Zach Yuing. Thank you for watching the Saints Insider.

The New Orleans Saints are switching their starting quarterback to second-round rookie Tyler Shough, who will replace Spencer Rattler after the Saints’ 1-7 start. Our Saints Insider team discusses why the move was made now, what to expect from Shough and why the next nine games are so crucial for both the quarterback and the Saints franchise. We also take a look at the NFL trade deadline, what the Saints might do and how that will affect Shough’s progress and the team’s evaluation of their new starter.
#saints #neworleanssaints #whodat #whodatnation #nfl #nflweek9 #nflquarterbacks #nfltradedeadline #nfltrades #fantasyfootball #football