Five Burning Questions for the Yankees Hot Stove | Pinstripe Post

Five Burning Questions for the Yankees Hot Stove | Pinstripe Post

My strong strong suspicion from talking to people with the Yankees who converse with the Yankees regularly is and and how Steinbrer has said this publicly is he wants to get under $300 million. Hello, welcome to the Pinstripe Post. My name is Ryan Samson, the host and producer of the show. That’s the star of the show, Joel Sherman. Today is Tuesday, November 11th. Joel is taping this from Las Vegas at the GM meetings. We appreciate him as always for giving us some time here. Uh, you know, this is really the time now after the World Series that Yankees fans relish in and talking about offseason banter about what exactly this team is going to be doing this offseason, how they’re planning to attack the roster construction and and what players they could potentially go after, free agents, trades, whatever it may be. And Joel obviously is always on top of it and and is so great at covering everything that goes on. So, I’m going to start off here just as always. Joel, how you doing today, sir? I know it’s early in the morning for you over there, but how’s it going in Las Vegas for you? The problem was it was a late night last night. We uh there is no closing hour in Vegas and we uh pushed it a little too far uh last night and uh it’s a quick turnaround today to do this and do the other work. Uh the good news is uh I um uh officiated and uh the wedding of my best friend over the weekend which was in New Jersey. uh 50 Years My Best Friend. Uh I got to do uh Dearly Beloved, which really freezes a room, so I liked it. I’m a ham. Uh and so that was uh that was great. And then uh you know, I stayed in New Jersey overnight, went to Newark, got involved involved in the government shutdown by sitting on the tarmac for a little over three hours and uh but eventually got here. So uh yeah, uh general managers meetings are underway. Um I doubt we’ll hear any big business done here. I think this will be a slowmoving especially free agent market that will really pick up at the winter meetings which I’m sure we’ll do shows from a month from now uh which is in the Orlando area but uh yeah uh we’re we’re the hot stove has been lit. We’re we’re off and running. Listen uh Joel Sherman is a man of many talents. Did not did not have you as an officient on my bingo card for many talent. Trust me until I did it. Neither did I. So, uh, you know, but but it was good. Literally my best friend for 50 years. What’s the, uh, anxiousness level for you trying to get ready for that, if you don’t mind me asking? Uh, not not that bad. Uh, you know, a lot of reps on doing stuff like this and television. Uh, I do have some ham in me. I don’t mind an audience. Um so uh and uh I I think life is about the the the great moments and um uh rising to them a little bit. And I I don’t mean like as a kind of like bottom of the ninth thing. Uh he my friend was marrying a woman we knew grew growing up. Uh me him and her brother used to play ball together all all the time. We we played football together, basketball, all everything. and uh uh they reconnected later in life. So, it was uh it was two people I’ve known for a long time and I was thrilled and honored they asked and so you know like once that happens now you want to make sure the probably that it’s great but also I told them I said five jokes less than five minutes it’s your night Joel Sherman that is uh that’s that’s awesome you get to share that to us man I that um and that’s cool that they got to reconnect later in life like you said no really terrific really terrific you know like One of the theme of the of um of what I spoke about uh mainly was that you just you can’t give up in life, you know, you can’t give up on at work, you can’t give up at achievement, you can’t give up on family, you can’t give up on love, you know, like you if you’re lucky, you’ll find it again. And uh I’m so thrilled for my friends, especially, you know, my really, really, really good friend whose father worked at the post forever. Um as a photographer, Don Haly, who’s passed, a great man. Um so, uh yeah, you know, like it’s just don’t give up, you know, you gota you got to keep trying. You can’t give up and you have to keep trying just like the Yankees are going to keep trying to improve this roster. Joel Sherman and Yeah. Listen, it starts though, I guess, really at this GM meetings. You know, like you said before though, there’s probably not going to be much coming out of this, but this is where talks really start and it feels like, you know, the rumor mill really gets turnurning. So, I wanted to try something a little bit different today for this episode and um give you a little bit more of like, hey, this is what fans maybe are are asking a lot of a lot around the rumor mill and and on social media and whatnot. I’m going to ask you five questions, five burning questions for the hot stove that Yankees fans are asking themselves and probably would love to hear your opinion sltake on these things. And I think the biggest question we have to start out with, Joel, is Cody Bellinger verse Kyle Tucker. Two biggest names you could argue in the free agent market from the outfielder position. Uh, you know, Kyle Tucker obviously coming from Chicago. He was started out in Houston. He’s a big name out there. But then Cody Bellinger, the guy you had after you traded for him from Chicago and had a great year for the Yankees, is now a free agent after he opts out of his deal. Is this a matter of the Yankees are just all focused on Cody Bellinger, or should there be a real conversation of, hey, Kyle Tucker’s a little bit younger and maybe you want to give him a bigger deal here and invest in that? So, what do you think that strategy looks like right now for the Yankees? Yeah. So, I think the answers to probably every question you’ll end up asking is going to be unsatisfactory to the large degree of Yankee fans in part because we’ve just begun. Um, Brian Kman addressed reporters right after the season. I don’t think he’s going to talk to reporters until here until tomorrow. As you know from when I do this show, the Yankees are very media unfriendly. They try to limit uh you know uh the other three sports are all being major sports are all being played. We’re here to some degree because we cover the teams. That’s our responsibility. But it’s also for MLB good coverage at a time where they’re not playing to, you know, get the hot stove lit. And too many executives, too many executives run away from this and don’t uh don’t make themselves easily available to talk at this. The Yankees are unfortunately near the top of the list of uh of groups that do it. So I think he has a media availability responsibility mandated tomorrow. American League general managers, we’re talking on Tuesday if we need tomorrow. uh on Wednesday. I would doubt we’ll see him uh make himself, you know, in the uh in in in a previous time, executives made themselves available to their city’s reporters every day at an event like this. Now, this is like pulling teeth with people. So, anyway, uh so there’s that. uh he might come out tomorrow and say whatever in the the the the the the thing that I think will disappoint Yankee fans is and of course this always people get angry when you you say it is I am not Stein Brener I’m not Stein Brener’s representative if uh I own the Yankees and I had lots of money I might do other things um there will there are people who I trust who tell me that house nine British Yankees lose lose money every year and that he wants to bring the payroll down. Now, if if that first part is true, I don’t know. They don’t open their books. I know the franchise value continues to go up. That’s just duh. But my strong strong suspicion from talking to people with the Yankees who converse with the Yankees regularly is and and how Steinbrer has said this publicly is he wants to get under $300 million. He wants to get under $300 million. And again, this is what the owner of the team wants. So, so Ryan, we can do the exercise that you want to do here. Yeah. And I appreciate what fans want to know, but at at at at some point, this isn’t what you want, it’s what what is. And I think the goal and and and I’ll be happy to answer any question as best as I can, but I think the goal this off seasonason is to try to get him to $300 million luxury tax money. I think within that they’d like to resign Cody Bellinger, add another reliever who can pitch in the final six outs of the game. If that person was left-handed, that would be great. It is very hard to find. I think they’d like to find a complimentary starting pitcher to help them through some injuries early in the season. I think they’d love to flip JC Asscara for a righty version of JC Escara and and understand uh and appreciate I think they do that having two left-handed hitting catchers and really three left-hand hitting catchers last year didn’t work. And I think they’d like to find a complimentary right-handed bat and maybe plus Ahmad Rosario, who they liked a great deal and tried in previous years to get that. All told, I think the Yankees would feel if they got the versions of the players they wanted to, they would feel that’s a 90 plus win team and they’d have a shot to line it up and that they could do that in the high 200s. That’s my suspicion from again it’s early in the off season. Uh they keep their cards close to the vest. So when it comes to um uh Tucker and Bellinger, they I think they very much would like Bellinger back even as a exercise in unlimited funds. I’m not sure and I think there’s a lot of teams that feel this way, not just the Yankees. I think Kyle Tucker is going to get a contract that at minimum starts it with a three and probably begins with a four as in 400 million something. I think there are teams that even have the money who are is this really like are we are we taking a great complimentary player and because he’s the best player in a market wanting to turn him into a leading man because I’m not sure even Kyle Tucker beyond the money wants to be a leading man. Uh, so, uh, I think even if the Yankees were more evergreen financially, you’d hear them in different markets wanting to spend. I’m not sure Tucker is their guy. I think Bellinger is their guy. And I and and by the way, you know, Tucker’s a good player. I think I did this on a previous show and I’ll try to do it quickly again. Uh, I think Kyle Tucker lights up the Christmas tree. that is uh a laptop, an analytic laptop, right? He does one executive who had him on his team at some point when I try to make a case. The case for me quickly has always been I’ve covered so many big Yankee Astro Series. Mhm. And you will leave a Yankee Astro series going Jose Alt man Coopertown, Carlos Kareah, great. What a player. Yordon Alvarez, Jeremy Pena, George Springer, like Bregman. I don’t ever remember leaving a Yankee Astro series, and there’s been a lot of big ones over the last 10 years where I went, “That thing Kyle Tucker did, I can’t get it out of my head.” An executive who had him said, “You are underappreciating what it means to be good at everything. And sometimes you don’t see it, but at the end of the day, he has a single and a stolen base and a walk and he played good defense and he’s a good base runner and he could hit left on left and he sees a lot of pitches and he and his point was there’s a cumulative thing that does show up in war that you’re not appreciating. And I would say even with that, I got it. But that’s a co-star to me. That’s a co-star and not a like we have allowed the marketplace like like Juan Stoodto somehow we skipped all the hundreds. We went from like 300 to 700 700. So now it feels like well what’s a lot less than that? Well 400 and I’m not exact like Juan Soda to me is a star. Um Aaron Judge is a star. Aaron Judge is a star right? Like there are Bobby Wit Jr. is a star. I don’t get star out of Kyle Tucker. So, if I if I had the money, I’m not sure that’s the player I’d want. Mhm. Because I just feel like you watch him and he’s Obi and like that’s really good. He’s good at everything, right? Like you watch Ogan Nobi play and he’s good, but he’s not a star. He’s not a star, but he’s a damn good player that can help you win. Damn good player. But but within the the framework of the NBA, he’s not at the top of the payroll. And Kyle Tucker, Cara, how free agency works is about to go to the near the top of the payroll, especially in guaranteed money long term. He’s had a couple of injuries. I I’m not here to save house money. If he told me I could spend it, I’m not sure I would spend it on that player. I like I I would more be like I’ll sign Alex Bregman and trade the current third base, right? Because I think Bregman is such a great clubhouse guy. Like he brings so much energy and right-hand bat, which I think they kind of need. And like I And by the way, I don’t think they’re doing that for my aggregator idiots out there. uh which uh so I think I think Bellinger is the key to their off season. Uh I don’t know if that was long with that. I don’t know if I answered your question. You did you kind I just think I think it’s going to be kind of like whatever you ask here, Ryan. Yeah. Yeah. The answer is going to be I think that there’s probably a plan B where they say spend more on a different area if they don’t get Bellinger. Okay. But Bellinger is I’m buying my significant other five Christmas presents. Here’s the big one and here’s the the scarf, the you know like tickets to the show we want to see whatever. You know what I mean? It’s like there’s the other four gifts, but there’s the gift that I give you at the end with the bow. That’s Bellinger. Yeah, that makes sense, Joel. I think uh and I and you did answer the question cuz you’re you’re essentially saying look the the market for Tucker is going to be so high it doesn’t make sense financially for the Yankees to invest in him. I think Yankees fans are asking themselves again like if Bellinger does decide to go back to let’s say the Dodgers or signs with the Mets across town or he finds another place to go get that big contract and the Yankees don’t meet that asking price, is there a possibility they would pivot to a guy like Kyle Tucker? Because you you do need to replace that production from Cody Bellinger that you got last year in the outfield. It’s a lot. So I think the other thing is could Kyle Tucker play center? Maybe. He’s a very good defender on the corners. I don’t I don’t I’ve never heard he wants to do it or willingly wants to do it. So, if the Yankees signed Tucker, does that mean they also have to resign Gisham, who I assume, and again, it’s an assumption. I don’t know, he’s probably going to turn down the qualifying offer. This is his one big shot after the 30 plus homers to do a multi-year contract. Do you want to give three at pick the number to Gisham plus what you do to Tucker? Then you’ve got to trade at minimum Jason Dominguez and at maybe Spencer Jones. Uh if not, who’s your center fielder? You don’t want to move 34, 35 year old Aaron Judge back there. Dominguez is in the Dominican Winter League now working on reps in left field, which is good for him. It’s something which you called, which I I said he was going to do. um uh to try to get better there. Tucker probably becomes your left fielder. You still need a center fielder. And does that mean you’re now in the got to close our eyes and hope that last year wasn’t a mirage and sign Trent Gisham for what the market says Trent Gisham will bear? That that’s a double move also that I’m not sure you want to do. Yeah. No, it’s a fair it’s a fair point by you Joel. if if they were to sign a Kyle Tucker. And and and let me throw in one other thing, Ryan, just so I hope fans see it’s if the Yankees didn’t have John Carlos Stanton. I’d be like whatever the highest bid is on Kyle Schwarber, you have to be a dollar more. This isn’t a a I don’t particularly love the player at the price it would cost for Kyle for Tucker, the other Kyle. But if you told me, hey, Stanton retired today, he doesn’t want to do this anymore. I’d be like, you have to be on the phone and win for Schwarber, who I think would hit 60 homers in his sleep at Yankee Stadium. I or let’s be realistic, he’d hit 50 again. uh your clubhouse would always be great because he’s such a great leader and he’s so serious about the sport. So I I hope it’s never misinterpreted is I’m like trying to carry water for the owner. Like here I’m trying to tell you what I think the owner is trying to do. Yeah, you’re being realistic. Very within the frame of I’m not a general manager. I play the 31st on TV here. Uh it’s a shitty paying job. But I gotta tell you what I think about players I watch all the time and who where I would do it. Like I think for example the Mets should try to sign Bregman and Schwarber and be like if you think you had clubhouse problems last year, we’ll deal with two areas. Solidify third base, solidify DH. In that case, letting Alonzo walk would not be as problematic, right? go and get a real defender at first base then because you just added Schwarber who will more than equal that. And so like this is not an attempt to No. No. Yeah. The spending of anybody, but it is an attempt to say here’s players I like and let’s be realistic about what House Stein Burner is going to be able to do and then if you want to call some talk radio and scream about that he’s cheap, go do it. But that is that’s going to be like screaming at the rain to stop. It’s probably not going to stop it. Uh so you know like let’s try to like deal with where he’s likely taking this. Yeah. It’s the financial parameters that you are reporting that he’s most likely going to be operating in. Right. And and that’s the reality of it. The financial parameters. It feels like every organization except for the Dodgers and Mets perhaps lives. Well, I think that’s what aggravates a lot of fans, right? because the because of everything you laid out before because of the the the cache the Yankees George Stein Brener Yankee the money they pull in and all that you know it’s it’s all that but I covered George and the idea that George got everybody he went after is is a myth also but look it still remains the point though of the Cody Bellinger verse Kyle Tucker Cody Bellinger will be a much more reasonable but be still going to be expensive deal more reasonable price who can if Spencer Jones isn’t ready Mhm. And you have to assume that the season’s going to even under the best case scenario, you want to start the season with him at Triple A. Let him prove for four or five weeks he deserves to be here. Then have another conversation. See if Dominguez is grown and you’re, you know, if you’re comfortable Dominguez Bellinger judge, then it’s like, hey, if and when there’s an injury, you know, and there probably will be, especially with the DH, right? Like at some point where it’s like, okay, now you take those four guys, you move it around with the D, etc. So, um, but, uh, yeah, I think I think center field should not just be it’s it’s I we do this on the on the on the this cast a lot, Ryan, where I always encourage fans, go to like fan graphs, call up center fielders, run your finger down the list of center fielders, tell me the ones that are available, tell me the price on those because of supply and demand. Yeah. Like, it’s one of the things that’s going to knock Bellinger’s price up. Yeah. is there’s not a lot of people you go, man, I really wish that guy roam center field for me. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s not a big it’s not a large market out there for for center fielders. I do I am interested though if the Yankees ever were to inquire. It’s unfort It’s not unfortunate because John Carl Stanton is still a heck of a baseball player and I think he had an incredible regular season. got cold in the in the postseason, but Kyle Schwarber would be incredible, especially as a leadoff in front of Judge there. Uh for the Yankees, who desperately need a leadoff back, too. Any place in the top four, uh it works. Um yeah. Yeah. I I think the Yankees are hoping that they have an 80 to 90% version of Schwarber and Ben Rice might also play first base. I think that they they they that he fits like that profile like like I I I think on the show last year and I maybe you looked at me crazy. I said I think the Yankees think he’s the fifth place hitter for a long time, right? I think I said that on the show before he did it. I said they love the underlying numbers and they love the player and the makeup and I think they think he’s going to work his ass off to try to be like major league average at first base this off season and I think they think that there’s still even a little more untapped power there and they think that’s 35 plus uh and if it’s 35 plus with that profile it’s 85% of Schwarber right it’s probably going to be like 250 240 40 250 25% strikeout rate like with Schwabber walks like a 10% walk rate and lots of power a guy who seems a little like Schwabber also not afraid to play in a big moment. No, which is incredibly valuable. So, like will he will Ben Rice get there or is will there we’ve se seen an awful lot of young Yankee players regress over the years and he’s going to have a prominent role going into spring training because I they might find try to find somebody who hits right-handed to play some at first base. But I think the plan right now is Ben Rice is the first baseman of the Yankees. Well, to summarize point one in question one from Joel, he thinks the Yankees are more in tune with the Cody Bellinger part of this. Kyle Tucker just doesn’t make sense in that at that price range. That brings me to question two, which you just brought up with Ben Rice. So, look, Ben Rice right now is the only first baseman on this roster right now. Uh, and like you said, if they can get similar production like they did last year out of him, that’s a that’s a literal, no pun intended, but that’s a home run for them. And I think Cashman’s also hoping that Ben Rice can develop and take that next step and prove. He’s not just this flash in the pan young young star, young player again because it hasn’t worked out like you said with a lot of the young players that come up here and have one great year and then just all of a sudden fizzle out and they don’t have sustain, you know, uh, sustainable success. So, do you think that’s the right move for the Yankees to bank on Ben Rice being the everyday first baseman or is this going to be more of a platoon opportunity for him? Because I’m sure he’s going to get some DH run with Stanton not playing every day at DH and you have to put Judge in there factor as well. So, how do they address the first base position with Ben Rice and whatever else is out there? Yeah, I think they need to find a right-hand complement for him. Um, I do think they’re going to be out there on the tight rope because I think that until the July market, probably if Ben Rice is sitting on May 15th hitting 165 with three homers and striking out 35% of the time, uh, they better have stashed somebody at AAA who can at least be slightly below major league average. uh because I think that this is the plan. They believe in the player um and uh they’re going to go for it and I think they’re going to to a large extent give him a shot to show and I would use Schwarber as the example that like Schwarber does a lot of damage against left-hand pitching. I think he was by far the highest left on left homer guy last year. Uh, and they’ll be like, we can live with a 212 batting average against lefty pitchers if it’s a 470 slugging percentage against lefty pitchers. And I think he’s going to get some run to prove that he is a everyday player against well, whoever starts. Now, the day Garrett Crochet shows up at in the Bronx, you probably want to have a right-hand hitter who you could put at first base. But um I I I think this is Ben Rice’s job. I think this is Ben Rice’s job. And and I’ll say that kid does not lack confidence that he’s going to be good at it. Yeah. And I I wonder Joel, do you trust Ben Rice defensively every day at, you know, playing that position? So, uh I don’t love it. M I would note that the World Series was played between Vladimir Guerrero and Freddy Freeman and that those two guys are brilliant first baseman. Uh and just really great all-around baseball players, base runners and hitters and power hitters. They’re terrific. And I think we’re used to seeing like I think the Mets are going through this with Alonzo, which is it is so hard in this atmosphere when bats are so hard to find. Are you really going to let the all-time home run hitter on your team leave? Not at the end. He broke the team record in arguably his best offensive season or one of the two or three best. I mean, he’s a really good offensive player, Pete Alonzo. But if you’re the general manager and you use the word run prevention seven times in the first 12 minutes of your season ending press conference, are you telling us something? And I think the Mets are going through this because uh like I would even say the final four, Josh Naylor who is a free agent is a really good first baseman. The Brewers, whoever they put at first base is generally a good first baseman. So the final four, like obviously they’re there for many more reasons than who plays first base, right? But I think we always think of, oh, you could put your clot at first base. And I always encourage people and say, watch who touches the ball besides the catcher the most in this game. Like there’s a lot of throws. There’s a uh two across the diamond. Second, sure. Third, there’s back picks from the catcher. You got to be athletic and get there. You you gota the ability for the first baseman to get at least the 36 force out at second. Not to mention the 363 double play which both Freeman and Guerrero are brilliant at. Yeah. Brilliant. You save pitches from your pitcher. You remove runners from the bases. Like the ability to do that is great. I think Ben Rice will work at it. I think he’s a worker. And I will I’ve brought it up a few times in a few places. I don’t think I’ve ever done it here. And I I I’ll say this, the Dodgers are the Dodgers for a ton of reasons. I’ve been with them to the end now these last two years, which means I’ve been late in October when the workload is been the greatest and guys are tired. Four and a half hours before every game, Freddy Freeman and Mookie Betts are on the field. Those two guys are going to Coopertown. And they’re go to Coopertown for a lot of reasons, but namely because Freddy Freeman’s probably going to have 3,000 hits and Mookie Bats is this brilliant, brilliant. They’re brilliant. They are on the field working on their defense before batting practice every day. These are players in their 30s in Freeman’s case, now deep into his 30s, right? 35, 36, wherever Freddy is at. And those guys set this example for that entire team about how they’re going to work and how they’re going to pay attention to detail. And I’ll never forget as a very young reporter, Tom Kelly, the longtime manager of the Twins who won World Series in 87 and 91. He was very nice to a young reporter. Why, I don’t know, but he was very nice to me. And he said something to me once like, “Uh, Joel, you know why I have the easiest job in baseball?” I said, “No, why, Tom?” And he said, “Cuz Kirby Pucket’s my best player and Kirby Pucket’s my hardest worker.” And he said, “You’ve got to be a real like and not work hard on our team.” If the guy who’s the best player is working the hardest and paying attention to detail, like that becomes who you are. and and and therefore, can Ben Rice ever become a gold glove? No. Can Ben Rice, who kind of made himself into a passable catcher, make himself into an average first baseman, I think he could be major league average. And if he’s major league average and is 85% of Kyle Schwarber for pre-arbitration prices, that’s what allows you to a win a lot of games but then afford the next thing, right? So I think it’s a big issue for them. Yeah. No, it is because it’s also that he’s really good at this because again to your point, Stanton is got this year and next year before his contract is done and when he’s healthy, he’s going to be the DH. And so you there’s no place high. It’s again to go back. It’s the Met problem. If you were allowed to play two DH’s at a time and the Mets could convince Sodto and Alonzo to both DH, this would be an easy decision for Steve Con. Go, where do I write the check? I want them both in my order. But the ball is put in play. And one of the reasons the Blue Jays came within a breath of winning the World Series, a breath, is they are really good on defense. I mean, when the ball gets hit, they convert it into outs. And I know what we love is the glitz of and you better have it in this age where it’s hard to hit, but you can’t completely ignore the defense. And and like, you know, we saw like we’ll remember Miguel Rojos’s homer to win the World Series. I’ll remember him coming off the bench for the last two games and making like five unbelievable defensive plays. Yeah. You know who he reminded me of? I hope we have old Yankee fans on the on the cast. He reminds me of Luis Soho. Luis Soho could go like a month not played. And trust me, he went a month because those Yankee teams, Joe Tory, wrote the same guys in the lineup every day. He wrote the same guys and then suddenly it would be maybe a tough day game after a night game or somebody had a little twist or turn and he tapped Luis Soho who never looked in shape who looked kind of saggy and whatever and he just had the greatest hands and he had the greatest hands a month after not playing a major league games and then he’d go up and somebody throw 95 and he’d go pop it to right field and you’d be like ask Derek if you ever have a chance like if Derek Jeter’s around you go Lou soho what do you think he’d go I can’t explain it. It’s so hard to hit and he’d just wake up and go out there and be able to hit a ball. He hadn’t hit in a game in a month. And I thought that was impressive by Rojas. He hadn’t he didn’t have a hit in a month. He hadn’t play started a game in 26 days before he started. And he made brilliant defensive plays besides hitting the home run. Some guys have gifted capabilities like that, Joel. And by the way, if he doesn’t make the defensive plays, especially the infield in play against Isaiah Khan, they don’t win the World Series. Like there’s a whole bunch of things. So I I just in this day and age you got to be careful about the offense only player as much as you need the offense in a highly pitching time. God I said that still. Well, look at the the reason why it again is is a difficult thing to discuss with Ben Rice too about the the first base part is you’re banking on a guy like Austin Wells having a bounceback year because we have to talk about that catcher position how that is affected by the Ben Rice playing first base every day is you do have three left-handed catchers technically if you wanted to keep Ben Rice somewhat in that in that part of being able to catch as well. You’re banking on Austin Wells to be able to not only be a good receiver like he was, you know, last year as a catcher and receiving the ball well and framing well and calling the game with the pitchers, throwing okay, throwing okay too, right? But like you need him to be be able to hit, right? Like you need him to be a part of that bottom of the lineup and give you somewhat better production. So, I guess my question is, is it okay to to rely on Escara and and Wells as your two catchers, or do you think about maybe potentially moving Ben Rice as a catcher full-time? I I don’t know. Like, could you go with another first base option? Like, there’s there’s definitely some flexibility there if you wanted to to go a different route. I think it’s such a great question, Ryan. I think it’s the the the the thing about this is again, we’re at a very early point. I bet you that one of the things when and if Brian Kman talks is I wouldn’t be surprised if he defines uh Rice’s role more definitively. And I think because what you you are going to ask him to play first base a ton. I think you should say to him you are a first baseman and an emergency catcher. Yep. Like if you want to do a little training catching, fine. But like put your time and effort into becoming major league average at first. Catching has never been more difficult than it is now mentally and physically. Physically the ball has never been thrown harder with more movement by different shapes and sizes of the pitches pitchers and the pitch is right. So, it’s physically hard to catch and mentally, you know, like I come came up in a game where it’d be like, “Oh, we’re playing the um the Orioles.” You know, you want to go up and in and down and away on who? On the Orioles, the lineup. Now, it’s like the first time around with Gunner Henderson, here’s what we want to do. Here’s his red zones, his cool zones, the whole thing. here’s what we’d like to do with Jackson Holiday, you know, and so mentally, I think the game is tougher. Uh I think it’s really affected Austin Wells’s offense, the burden of it. And so I would take Ben Rice and go, you’re the first baseman and take that off. I think they will probably do that. And again, that’s more reporting and hunch. little reporting, bigger hunch that they he has such a burden to become a good first baseman and hit fifth probably there. That’s what will happen. Uh I think that they know they got a little too left-handed unbelievably after so many years la last year. And if they could find the right I I know that this is one of the ones where Yankee fans might go really. I think that JC Escara is liked in the industry. Not where you get a big return, but where I think you could probably turn JCA into the right-hand hitting version of JC Escara. Like for a team that’s like, oh, we have right-hand hitting catcher X. We’d like his backup who’s going to start 55 games to be a left-hand hitter. We kind of like that profile of JCA. good bat to ball, exit velocity, whatever lit up the Christmas tree in the past about this player. And so I think the Yankees probably can turn him into the right-handed version of him. Okay. My again suspicion as fact and that’s one of the ways they do it. But Ryan, one of the themes of these cast right up to opening day last year and I think maybe even a little further was, you know, the Yankees are kind of beholden to Dominguez, Vulpi, Rice, and Wells. And I think we could start it again because if the goal is to be 275, 280 million and win 90 plus games, those guys or the majority of those guys have to be good players. Yeah. And I think the Yankees would argue they were some that Rice was a very good player last year. Uh, Wells did the most important thing a catcher could do, which is catch well and hit home runs and they feel like there’s probably untapped offense in there, especially batting average that he could get to there. We I know how polarizing Vulpi is. I believe he’s going when he’s healthy, he’s going to be the shortstop again. They’re not going to go get another shortstop in this mark. Well, they might get a secondary complimentary guy to work with Cababierro, but I think Vulpi is going to do it. And the one that I’m not positive about is Dominguez because I think under, let’s say, Trent Gisham does take the qualifying offer and they resign Bellinger. I think that they probably feel they can trade Gisham in that situation. another reason why he probably doesn’t take the qualifying offer. It’s like, hey, I’m coming back to play for you or I’m not coming back. But in that situation, so if you’re locked into again, Judge Gisham Bellinger, then does Dominguez become a trade chip or did his value slip last year and you want him to play some more? I think that there’s a 20 homer, 25 steel guy in Dominguez. Um, I think he handled his benching incredibly well for a 22year-old last year. And I think I might have done this on the show before. If I did, I’m sorry, but I’ll point it out again. And I think it’s a it’s a it’s a real check mark for Ahmad Rosario, but it’s a specific check mark I’d give to Dominguez. Also, Rosario is one of those guys if you showed up three and a half, four hours before the game, he goes out on the field almost every day to do something. He’s a I I knew him when he was a kid with the Mets. Like, he’s turned into a really good veteran presence guy besides having a real skill to hit left-handed and handle second and third well and maybe even go to the outfield if you need him. I would dare say he should work some at first base this off season if the Yankees because if the Yankees going to resign him, he maybe he’s that guy like to do it. But if you were there late in the year, Dominguez isn’t playing. He was like a puppy dog at three and a half, four hours before the game. Rosario, this is where good leadership matters. Following Rosario on the field to do extra work every day and so can I my suspicion is that Dominguez’s baseball instincts are not great and that it will be hard for him to get much better. On the other hand, he does not did not have a ton of reps as an amateur. You know, he did not have a ton of reps. co included and injury included in the minor leagues. He is doing the right thing this offseason by going and playing winter ball to try to get as many reps in left field and hitting right-handed as possible. Can he Ben Rice it and be major league average in a corner outfield position? Major League. He certainly has the athleticism to do it. And do the Yankees not want to give up on him before seeing a guy get more reps who’s 22 20 he’s going to play 23 next year right Dominguez. So, I I think Ryan, one of the themes when we do shows between now and the first pitch of the 2026 season, which will be be honest, quicker than you think, uh cuz the offseason always goes way too fast. And uh is they need these young guys and maybe we’ll include the name Spencer Jones in it. We’ll probably include the names the name Cam Schlitler in it. That that what we saw last year needs to be real. that that they need Will Warren to again be a workhorse probably. And that they probably need somebody from Carlos Lrange and Elmer Cruz Rodriguez. Yeah. One or both of them at some point to be something Schlitler-like during the course of the season. They are a team that’s going to need their feeder system, which I know Yankee fans think is bad. isn’t like actually produces players uh at a pretty good rate comparatively especially when you don’t draft at the very top of the draft. Uh uh everything is by comparison and by reality they need this that feeder system to again do a good job because it isn’t going to be a Dodger or Steve Con situation financially. It will it will offer a lot, but I think there’s not a 0% chance that either that more likely the Blue Jays, but maybe the Red Sox payroll is very very similar to the Yankees by the end of this off season. H that’s interesting stuff, Joel. Uh and that brings me to the third question. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Kyle Tucker was a Blue Jay, which will really piss off Yankee fans. Yeah. I mean, look, we’re seeing the rest of the market. We we we’re we’re the rumor mill is turning that the rest of the AL East is going to be aggressive, but we’re seeing that the Yankees just I don’t know about the Rays, but I think that well the the Red Sox the Orioles are going to spend more than they traditionally spend or at least attempt to spend more tradition than they traditionally spend this off season. I think the Red Sox aren’t going to just talk about it this off seasonason. I think they’re going to do everything possible to get a right-hand power bat if that guy plays first base. I don’t think it’s going to be Alonzo, though. It’d be fascinating to see him with the Green Monster, but but um you know, I I think they really value they have been a bad defensive team for a while. They got out of Des. I’m not sure they want I think they’d like if in a perfect world a right-hand hitter who can really field that position again. Good luck finding that. Yeah. In in the marketplace and a kind of high-end starting pitcher to be number two behind Crochet. I think that’s what the Red Sox are looking to do this off season. Uh um but I think that the Blue Jays are going to be very aggressive. I think the Red Sox are going to be aggressive and I think the Orioles within the parameters that they’ll live under are going to be more aggressive than normal. and we’ll see what a new owner in Tampa does, which I think will be spend some, but it would it’s still going to be Well, it’s funny you say those those teams are going to be aggressive, but we’re we’re talking about what exactly the Yankees are going to be doing. So, I think one of the things you you just highlighted was they need the young in infusion of talent to take a step forward because it doesn’t seem like they’re going to be as aggressive in the free agent market. But I I do want to ask you about this outfield like you just highlighted. Let’s say in this world here that I’m laying out for this next question. Judges, right? They resign Bellinger and Gisham does not come back. He doesn’t take the qualifying offer and ends up signing a deal somewhere else. That leaves Spencer Jones and Jason Dominguez there. Do you see both of those guys playing significant amount of time in the outfield for the Yankees in that type of scenario? Not to begin the season. I think what would happen in the scenario you just laid out is the Yankees would then uh through either free agency or trade try to acquire a right-hand hitting outfielder who has the ability to play center field because I think that that in the best case scenario Bellinger wouldn’t have to do it every day, right? Um, and they will probably again like to see Dominguez hit against lefty pitching before they decide that that righty hitter will play every day time against lefties for Dominguez. Again, if that’s the lineup, if Dominguez doesn’t get traded, etc. And it’s Domingus Bellinger Judge. I think they try to find another right-hand hitter. Uh, a year ago, like I’ll give a name again, aggregators, I’m giving a name from who I liked a year ago. This guy had a terrible season. Can I say something about the aggregation? Go ahead. Because it caused some consternation. You know, you know me. I’m not online in the way that people are online. So, I find out things because they have to swell or whatever. We did a show and uh whether people know it or not, you and I don’t really plan the shows. No, I think the shows are better. If I’m good at what I do, hopefully you think I’m good at what I do. I’ve been working and talking to lots of teams and I’m really digging down on the Yankees and Mets. That’s my job. Hopefully, I’m good at it. And if I can’t answer your questions, the post should get somebody else. Like, that’s how I feel about it. Stop selling yourself off the show. I don’t want you gone off the show, Jo. But like, you know what I mean? Is like that that’s how I feel is I’m thinking about the Mets all the time. I’m thinking about the Yankees all the time. I’m thinking about the whole sport all the time. And like I think the show is better where we don’t overthink it. Mhm. And you kind of you represent the fan base and kind of like come in. You asked me last I think it was the last show we did about Harper and I said maybe this isn’t verbatim but you hit me. I wasn’t prepared for Bryce Harper. I like we we had never talked about it. Yeah. No. And uh one of the things I actually said was you said would you do him for the Yankees? I explained why I didn’t think it would work for the Yankees. But then you said, “Do you someway?” You said, “Do you think it’ll be traded?” And I said, “Well, I wouldn’t say anybody’s 100% not to be traded.” So, who knows? And that was it. That was it. That was it. That was literally what I said. I know. Somehow that got picked up as MLB Insider says Harper available for trades. We’re nuts. To the point where I saw Dave Dumbrosski, the head of the Phillies yesterday, who I hadn’t seen for a while. Yeah. And again, Ryan, I think you’ve gotten to know me over the years. So, better or worse, I don’t go that way when there’s a problem. I try to I’ve done this business role in this business a long time. Your reputation means everything. So, I went up to him and I essentially said, “Dave, I think I caused you some problems.” And he said, “Yes.” And I said, “Did you listen to what I said and not read what an aggregator said what I said?” And he said, “No.” And I said, so I told him this is what I actually said. And then one aggregator does this and then the next aggregator tops it but never goes back and listens n to what was said. We had not prepared a show. Nope. You hit me with Harper. The majority of it was like if he was available, why I think he’s a problematic guy to be acquired. his age, his maybe decline, his concern about his contract. Yeah, the contract was the big part you hit on that you were. But all all I said was like like I might say about 99% of players like would I be surprised if a player got traded. You name the player, I’d be like, well, I mean, I guess anybody could be traded. And essentially, that’s what I said about Bryce Harper. I didn’t say he would be traded. I didn’t say I hear he’s going to be traded. I didn’t say I think they should trade him. I’m not even sure that like I use trade in as a verb in a sentence. Right. So anyway, this is why I’m I’m so shagrin to talk about things because it’s like I stay out of that world because it bothers me so much. But like in this one, it landed in my apartment. I’m dealing with this thing. Then I hear secondhand like Harper then says, “Well, they’re talking about me being traded.” And I’m like, this is wag the dog crazy time. It’s crazy out there, John. So anyway, so I’m always like worried now about saying, here’s an example of a player I think they should be interested in. That then gets turned into Yankees interested in or Yankees pursuing. Like they love that verb, too. Like Yankees pursuing. Nope. Nope. This is Joel thing. I’m the 31st GM. Yep. And if I ran the zoo, here are some things I do. So, a year ago, to me, the perfect player would have been like Lane Thomas. Yeah. A right-hand hitter, very good against lefty pitching, has some postseason experience, can move around the outfield, good base runner, can handle center field adequately. He had a lot of plantto fasciitis problems this year and his performance went way down. He is a free agent uh this off season. I don’t know what is like, but if not him, a player like him, but again, I encourage people go run your finger down what that would be because I think they need a right-hand hitting outfielder. Yeah. Should cover center field. Um Harrison Bader, but Harrison Bader in this like I’m not that this will definitely get aggregated so I won’t do what it is. I’ve been surprised what people think the number will be for him for like would you think it’s like a one-year deal or you think it’s maybe like that’s the thing and I’m not even sure in some situations it’s two years like like this is a supply demand issue we’re standing here struggling to come up with who can fill this when he is still a relatively 30-ish not 35 player he has a defensive component he can play center field though I think he’s aged out of being a really top flight center fielder. He’s I think an outstanding corner and he’s in in a different age when there was a lot of offense in the sport. He might be a three and a half outfielder, but in this sport, I don’t think you’ll name 30 to 40 outfielders you’d want more. And so, you’re not going to get him for fourth outfielder prices or even outfielder prices in this marketplace. I threw him out because I think the Mets need a center fielder, too. Both New York teams need a center fielder and I’ve thrown him out to executives here and I’ve been like really and so I think he’s going to do well. Okay. I also think he’s going to see like like in the we were talking about this with Gisham. You don’t get too many bites at the apple where you’re desired, right? If Trent Gisham, if the Yankees non-tender Trent Gisham last off season, he gets like a one-year 5 to8 million contract someplace. A year later, and this is the thing where it’s like a year ago, we’re wondering if we should nender you. Now, are you really a $75 million player? That should we believe in all this? You know, a year ago, Harrison Bader is fighting to get a one-year 5 millionish contract. Yeah. a year later is a two at fill in the blank maybe. But that but for the Yankees unless he’s you don’t sign Bellinger and he is your starting center fielder. Yeah. Then you might have to pay the two or three years for it. though I think he’s not he he’s a lot of injury in his profile and he’s got a lot of not topflight player in his profile and so he’s a real step down. I I really think it’s one of the reasons Bellinger’s going to get paid someplace maybe with the Yankees because it’s just supply and demand. Yep. And it’s that’s raises the cost of the player if there’s not that much supply for that player or that pro player profile that you’re looking for. All right, so that was question three about Dominguez and Jones if they could be potentially in the outfield. Question four, Joel for this five burning questions for the Yankees hot stove season. Devin Williams and Luke Weaver, both guys free agents. Edwin Diaz also a free agent out there. The Yankees only have David Bednar and Tim Hill, guys you could rely on in the bullpen right now in those late innings. You could argue and we know is gone too and you know this has put the Yankees bullpen in question of how are they going to address this? Now I’ve I know you’re probably going to say Ryan they have found bullpen pieces in any sort of way. Guys that you would never even expect to be high leverage guys that turn out to be high leverage guys. Are the Yankees going to be aggressive in the reliever market for one or two relievers to put there behind Bedar to really fortify it? Yeah, I mean I think you’re skimping on Dval is a guy who’s pitched late in ball games and Fernando Cruz is very trusted by the manager and he pitched late in games. He was one of the best strikeout pitchers in baseball. I think they begin this with four guys they believe in. Okay, my suspicion is again, not knowing anything for sure, but I’m not exactly sure they’re going to tender Mark Lighter Jr. a contract. I would suspect that they open up that money. Uh, I’m curious if they think Jake Cousins is going to come back from his elbow surgery and be a part of this. So, I do think they’re going to address the bullpen either through free agency or trades. I think they’re going to add at least one guy. If you told me they didn’t sign Bellinger, I still think they probably don’t go to the top of the market for Diaz because I think that they’ve had Shagrin about being at the top of the market with like Chapman and Britain and they feel like it’s not. So, so I think let’s let’s again use I try to make this dispassionate for Yankee fans a little and the other team I cover all the time is the Mets, right? If you sat David Sterns down and said, “Philosophically, walk me through things you believe.” I think he’d say, “You really have to save your big money for starting pitching, catching, shortstop, center field, and guys who hit the ball out of the ballpark with a high consistency.” And even then, that last part, he’d be like, “But I’d love if they could really defend.” And and third base. and third base. Don’t get caught up spending a lot of money on relief pitchers, corner outfielders in first base and DH. Like I think there’s no absolutes in the game. That guy gave $765 million to Juan Sodto. Yep. But I would say that Juanto is a generational player. Like he’s among the five most productive 26 and younger players in the history of the game. So I guess if that comes along in another position, you do it. I think if money is an issue, you and you operate in an analytic era, you don’t overspend money in those areas. And so I think the Yankees won’t do that because they really did get pretty good closing from Klay Holmes for a long time who they found at the margins in a trade from Luke Weaver for a while who they literally found on waiverss, right? Uh from David Bedar who they made a trade for and isn’t making a ton of money. And I think that they don’t think this is the area to apply the money. Now, again, if they miss out on Bellinger, could I see a different plan B? Maybe. Uh, I actually think if you told me the Mets could only sign Diaz or Alonzo, I think they have to sign Diaz. Because if you think the Yankees are starting short shrift in the bullpen and I think they’re starting with four pretty good arms in the bullpen, the Mets are starting with help me here. Brooksley Brooks are um who else? Menter. Mter might not start the season on time, right? He might not start on time, but but I mean he’s good. Okay, he’s good. They got the two lefties locked out. Yeah, the next guys help me here. Uh, right. No, you’re not missing any. So, so like if you told I I if you told me that you had more unlimited funds and you were starting with Brooksley and crossing your fingers on AJ Mter, I would make sure I’d sign Edwin Diaz if I were the Mets. Yeah. Like I feel like that’s almost a priority for them. If you told me like what’s your pri priority list, him and Alonzo, and I’m not saying don’t sign Alonzo, it’s Steve Con. Do whatever the hell you want. Uh, but I actually, if you told me I only could sign one, I feel like I could find something that puts first base together, especially if you use the whole player and say there’s going to be a little less offense, but we’re going to really lock down the position. I think you can do that. I think that can be found in the marketplace. Uh, I think the Yankees will add no less than a reliever and probably be very active in that that uh six-year minor league free agent smaller player market where they seem to find a guy or two. Gotcha. Over the years and hope they find the next Tim Hill, the next Jake Cousins, the next Ian Hamilton, the next um Klay Holmes. Klay Holmes. Yeah. That they’ve done over the years. But I if you told me they they did something smaller for someone they like what why is the guy the um again I have no idea if they’re interested in this player zero if they’re interested in the player but if you told me they spent two at 20ish something like that on Brad Keller who just had a very good year for the Cubs and again I use him because I’ve talked to enough executives to He lights up the Christmas tree. Whatever it is that this group of people like, shape, movement, velocity, whatever it is, he he’s going to have a big he’ll be a guy he’s going to sign. Maybe it will be for three years because of it where people are going to go, “Wait, Brett Keller got what?” And I think that they’re much more willing to do that. I don’t think it’s impossible that that’s going to be a number in generally the Luke Weaver area where they feel like if they really believe that the late season problems were full-on tipping Mhm. and they’re like we know Luke can play here and that number is a number that shoehorns into our desires. I don’t think it’s impossible he comes back, right? So, I think they’re going to be more in that bucket where it’s like a guy who they like on the numbers. Uh, but they I mean, Diaz is probably going to get Does he get less than four and 80? I feel like that’s a baseline for him. Yeah. And that’s, you know, he’s he’s a and I love the player and if you deal with Edwin Diaz in the clubhouse, like I hope he comes back. Yeah. could to deal with like so he’s electric stuff electric stuff but but but it is he’s like accumulate he’s in his 30s now he’s a high velocity guy what happens if he loses a mile or two during the contract at most it’s 60 inning you’re paying 20 million plus a year for 60 innings now it’s 60 incredible innings and if you don’t have it you really don’t have it it’s like having a bad field goal kicker like suddenly you got to win the game with a 44 yard field goal with three seconds left and you go, “Shit, we hate that guy.” You know, so uh but Deon Williams, but I but but I feel very much Yeah. And I think Deon Williams will will sign someplace else. Oh, you don’t think he’s coming back? Yeah. Oh, I I I I don’t think that this is a marriage that really worked. Oh, so you weren’t a believer in the late whatever talk you want to talk about him. Deon Williams is a I think Devin Williams is a good relief pitcher. Actually, better than that. I don’t think that this was like a comfortable marriage all year. And I’m just like uh they they’ll be like, “Yeah.” And I I think some of these failed relievers this year, like him and Hell’s for example, I think we’re going to go, “Wait, the guy who sucked for the Mets just got what in the free agent market?” Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because because the like one of the things if you like say read like you know Sarah does this a lot on the athletics like the stuff plus which a lot of front office like Ryan Hley is a stuff plus guy. Yeah. And so everyone’s going to be like oh I could explain. He was tipping with the Mets. We shouldn’t put him in a big market like New York but here in fill in the blank with a lot less population and fewer reporters covering it. Look at this stuff plus it’s going to be whatever. And I think I think he’s gonna get a good enough. I mean, I don’t think he’s gonna get what he would have gotten a year ago. Again, this is like the perception we were talking about. Trent Gisham a year ago gets this. Today he gets this. Ryan Helysey and Devin Williams, if they’re free ages after last season, like we’re talking about the and and and that’s a little bit of the danger. It’s the most volatile job on the field. Yeah. And that’s another reasons why most front officers don’t want to give that kind of money. Now, I think Edwin Diaz has probably shown he’s resistant to the volatility that when he’s healthy, he’s just going to be good, but for how long, and it’s 60 innings. It’s like how as great as your field goal kicker is, he doesn’t make more. Like I was talking about the positions on the baseball field, catcher, uh, starting pitcher, center field, short stuff, you know, corner, lock down quarterback, pass rushing, defensive end, great elite receiver, quarterback, obviously, like that’s where you got to spend your big money. And I think most teams are like that version of that in baseball doesn’t include closer. Closer is your field goal kicker. Yep. Like you want to spend a good amount to make sure you get a guy who could kick the field goal. But as we also see like those guys, there’s a handful of those guys who are good every year and then there’s guys who hit 87% one year and then suddenly are missing all the extra points. Yeah. And so like I think that there’s a similarity to those jobs. Yeah. Look, I mean the reason why I ask about the bullpen is because and I hear you on the four guys that you may you know you they feel comfortable with. It’s also you’re asking for David Bard to now be the full-time closer again next year and he was good. He was good. No, but but again there’s always the possibility of now it’s fulltime you’re taking on that role with the Yankees and we know how they’ve abused closers in the past where they go to them early and often and they they’ll get asking for more than three outs. So I just wonder the workload on Benard. Do you want to fortify that position? Because this B goes us to our fifth and final question. Joel Sherman, the starting rotation. There is a lot of question marks around the starting rotation. And I wonder if one way to pivot about the Yankees off seasonason is if they do address the bullpen and fortify that even further, you make that starting rotation question marks a little less worrisome. But at the end of the day, Garrick Cole’s coming off Tommy John. Clark Schmidt’s coming off Tommy John. We’re not going to see him till late in the year. Carlos Rodon, we found out, is getting surgery, so he’s going to be out for a couple like a month or so. And let’s not forget Max Freed stayed completely healthy, which is not the norm for him as of late. And you’re asking him at age 32 or 31, I believe, to go healthy for the entire year again, be your ace again. And then you’re asking for Cam Schlitler to prove that the playoffs wasn’t a, you know, wasn’t a farce and that this is going to be reality here for him this this year. So, and Luis Heel, we have no idea what could be. And Will Warren was really, really great for 33 starts. And I read your Sports Plus piece. It was awesome laying this all out. How aggressive should they be? White Post.com. Post and White Post.com. Go to postports plus subscribe through college. Come on, man. That’s right. That’s right. Postportsplus.com. Subscribe here. Go read there. Come on. Lots of great information there from Joel Sherman. So I yeah, you you kind of hit the thing is and I and I recommended in that piece again if I was the 31st GM or Brian Cashman asked my opinion, which he won’t, and I do think they’re going to add a starter. I I kind of my gut feeling is they’re not going to add the kind of starter I would add if I were them. Right. I think they’re going to add a swing manny starter who kind of covers but could go to the pen if they get healthy. Ryan, I was wrong about this last year. I got to admit it is I spent a lot of time on this cast talking about what worried me the most about the Yankees was the starting rotation. Yeah. Because it was so thin and fragile and was always one more three-week injury even away from they might fall out of the playoffs if they got the wrong injury here at the wrong time. and they have a scenario where they could end up with a lot of starting pitching next year, but you that is one of the great fallacies of the world is that it’s all going to get healthy and kind of come together at the right time. Uh when I’ve talked to Yankee people, they consistently say that Garrick Cole has hit all his benchmarks. And if I gambled, which I don’t, and you said, would you gamble on your call getting back in 14 months or less or more? I would probably say less, right? That that’s like miday. Okay. Now, he had surgery. I think it was March 11th, so this would be like May 11th would be 14 months. Would you would you go for 14 months or less? I kind of believe in the guy. I believe in the guy knowing his body. I believe in the guy’s work ethic. I believe in his ambitions to get to the Hall of Fame and be a historic pitcher. Uh, and so I would, but I think I would say many very positive things about Shane Bieber, who had surgery in April of 2024 and did not pitch in a major league game until late August of this year. Like, these are fingerprints. They are not, hey, you have Tommy John surgery and you could return. the the the word on Tommy John’s surgery now is if you talk to people in the game they say you start at 12 months everyone’s going to get 12 months whether you do the internal brace whatever the procedure and then it’s what else do you need beyond 12 months so that’s a thing maybe Garrick Cole needs 13 months and he will return and then the question is how like return to what he might not be his full self until 2027 like because velocity might come back but feel or something might not. So you have have that Rodan had loose bodies uh removed from his elbow again. I think the target date is about May 1st for him. Will he? I don’t know. But you’re going to begin the season down those two guys you know a season after Freed through the most innings of his career and we’ll pitch at I think 32 next year after Schlitler and Warren threw the most innings of their professional life. Especially Warren went way beyond it. Luis Heel is like a human injury waiting to happen in his career and did not finish the season well. Like, you know, you could still believe in Luis Heel. So, you know, that’s the kind of like group and I think they feel that Carlos Lrange and Elma Cruz Rodriguez have a chance to be Schlitler like and join, but that’s a June, July, August thing. They are start the season at the end of March. And I think they t they’re talking about Clark Schmidt second half next year say like so let’s say August 1 again good luck you know that’s like 14 months out from surgery 13 14 months we’ll see and I just think in this area vibe last year where it was like well Strowman never worked and Cole missed the whole year and he’ll missed four months and they just had a lot of go right. Yeah. Warren who I thought was one of their most valuable players by just making 33 starts which was tied for the American League league lead just and in probably 25 26 of them handed the ball to Boone with a chance for the Yankees to win like that was incredibly valuable because if not him who Schlitler I mean you mentioned the playoffs Schlitler was a high-end starter from the moment he kind of showed up to the end of the season like you want to believe in that again great you know Rodon made a like 33 starts last year also. Like they they kind of like the amount of starts they got from Freed, Rhdan, and Warren. The gift of Schlitler and getting Hill back kind of just in time allowed them to kind of save their season. They did not trade for a starting pitcher in the in the market at the trade deadline. I think that they’ve got to go and get a starting pitcher. Yeah. Not a Ryan Yarbor. No. not a swing guy. You know the guy who would be perfect for them again. Arbitrator uh aggregator schmucks. Don’t I won’t stop you. But like Klay Holmes is almost a perfect guy for them if you think about it because we just watched him pitch a whole season and be above average as a major league starter at 160 innings. But, you know, if everybody came back, which they won’t, but if they did, if they had the pitching miracle and Cole got healthy by May 1st and Rodan was healthy by May 1st and Schmidt came and Elma Cruz Rodriguez was great and they have to maybe figure out and whatever. Cam Schlitler stays healthy and is an ace and Max Free stays healthy all right like they all works. Well, you’ve seen proof of concept because Klay Holmes was a terrific relief pitcher here. So, you could put him in the pen. Like so somebody like him, I don’t think the Mets are giving him away by any stretch of the imagination. So, but like that’s the perfect guy is somebody better than Yarborough who, you know, could start. And so, but I kind of think they’re not I think this is a place I wouldn’t skimp. Yeah, I agree with you. If I were them, I would address it. And if I’m in a situation where I like, bless me, if I have to have a sentence during the year where I’m like, I have too much starting pitching, you’re not going to have it. And the other thing I’ll throw in is the Yankees have to have some arrogance about them. Now, they’re in a much tougher situation than the Dodgers, but the arrogance of the Dodgers was we’re in the playoffs. And they believe that on March 27th when the season began last year. I think the season began earlier for them because I think they were in Japan, but in March they’re like, “We’re in the playoff.” I was in their camp in early March. I watch Show Otani throw a bullpen. Like if they wanted Show Otani to start on opening day, he could have started. Absolutely. I believe that they were talking about last year when they were running out of pitching in the postseason in 2024 against the Yankees. They were like, “Can he pitch?” So, I know he could have pitched to begin the season. They’re like, “We’re in the playoffs. We’re probably going to get a hundred-ish innings out of this guy this year post Tommy John surgery. The hundred we want includes October.” I think the Yankees have to begin with that arrogance about Cole. Could not agree more. Like, like make sure the bullets aren’t wasted in April, May, and June. No one cares about those months. It’s Well, they do. You can’t because I think the AL East is good top. But wouldn’t you agree with the way that it’s gone the last three years for these Yankees team or four or five if you want to go about it? They start off hot, but then it becomes this mid but you don’t want to start off cold just for the hell of it now. You know, because that’s why I’m saying I would go get a starting pitcher to avoid Cole cold and help Cole, which is don’t rush. Yeah. The 120 innings we need begins June 1st, June 14th, July. Like, don’t rush. We want like because look if it worked perfect it never does but if it worked perfect and you had Cole at his best, Schlitler at his best, Freed at his best, Rodon at his best, Hill at his best, Schmidt at his best, and whichever celebrity guy I just put on their roster at their best on October 1st. That’s how you could win a World Series. That’s how you become the Dodgers, right? So to me, I would not just do a plugandplay starting pitcher. Completely agree. I would try in this marketplace. I understand you’re not going to go to the very top. And this is not a marketplace where I love the very top. Even Michael King. So, but I don’t think Michael King’s at the top. And I like Michael King. Yeah. Here’s my Michael King fear is he’s not healthy a lot. M and am I just doing the same thing where I’m weaving it? I actually think this version of a starting pitcher doesn’t have to be I’d like him to be as good as possible, but can I get a better version of Will Warren? Okay. In other words, I and I don’t know exactly, but somebody who I feel great about every five days will take the ball will get me 18 outs and hand the ball to the manager. And even if it’s four runs, three runs, cuz I think they have to. It can’t be Marcus Strowman, Carlos Carrasco, Ryan, like it’s got to be somebody who can go round and round. Now, if it’s better, if you make a trade, like you use Dominguez to get a starter you really like, for example, or Spencer Jones to get a starter you really like, that’s even better. Like, that’s where I want to go with this, Joel. Like, oh, I get you. I get you. I would not mess around with this because but you do have the navigation problem of Hill doesn’t have options. Schmidt doesn’t have options can go down. Schlitley could go down but like what if he’s your ace? I know. I know. So if you don’t send him down, you send Will Warren down, right? But like and and again I think your biggest problem should be what the numbers are. Yeah. Exactly. Like I I don’t care if I have too much pitching at that point. Like it’s great. It’s a great problem to have and you almost never it never works out, right? like you never have it. So like like the Dodgers played it perfectly, right? Because by the beginning of October, but you know what? You shake your head. But but that was also their plan in 2024 and it all got hurt, right? And it so like like I’m saying it is the script I would try to follow is the 2025 Dodgers. And that’s how hard it is. One year it worked. Good for them. They figured out how to win the World Series both years. But one year it didn’t work. and and they nearly lost because they were just didn’t have any starting pitching. And last year, I think Blake Snell could have come back quicker. I think Glassnell could have come back quicker. Yeah. And I think the Dodgers are there’s healthy and there’s Dodger healthy. And Dodger healthy is not that you can go back out to the mounds and throw a hundred pitches, but one, you could throw it at peak performance. And two, we believe we’re not pushing you early and you’re not going to be there on October 1st. Yeah. I think that the way the NL West is set up and the talent of the Dodgers is, they know they’re in the playoffs. I don’t think the Yankees could take it completely for granted because Toronto’s really good. I think Boston is going to be even better next year. I can’t believe Baltimore won’t be better than last year. Tampa Bay always mats its way to at least 7475 wins as a baseline if not better than that. So as opposed to the Dodgers, I don’t think the Yankees could just go, we’re in. We’ll be cavalier about it. And that’s why I would go get a starting pitcher. So that’s at least a superior version of Will Warren. And I’ve got Will Warren at TripleA. Yeah. Right. With Rodriguez, Cruz Rodriguez with LGR. Ultimately, Ben has maybe with uh Chase Hampton coming back from his own surgery at some point, you know, with Bryce Cunningham maybe coming up at some like like the Yankees have an interesting group of starting pitching in the minors. It’s not ready besides the Schlitler warrant. It’s not ready on April 1st. And therefore, you can’t just slow play and be like, well, we’re going to get all these gifts starting about May 1st with Rodon and Cole. Are you? No. You you don’t know. The Guardians thought they were getting Shane Bieber at some point. They ended up trading him before he made a start last year, right? Like like like this. These do not come with scripts. No, they don’t. And what’s fascinating about this, Joel, too, is is that and I’m going to throw again aggregators. Joel is not saying this is going to happen or not happen. I’m just throwing this name out here because I get this name in my head and I’m like, he’s out there potentially and I’ve heard you talk about him a bunch. He’s an ace. Sai Young winner Tariq School. He’s I don’t know why the Tigers would even do this, but if you I don’t think they’re going to do it. If they do it, I don’t think the Yankees could win that trade. And that’s where like I would say like, you know, because I think you I don’t Dominguez, Jones, Lombard, I throw all those names out there, even if it’s for a one-year rental. And this is where the Yankees fan is going to argue to to us, Joel, and to everyone else. And as myself as a Yankee fan, Aaron Judge has maybe one or two more years of like prime. you’re you’re hoping that you have one more year of great greatness from him. And I and I hate that Brian Cashman answered this question like this. What are you talking about the pressure of building in Judge’s prime window? It’s like, well, no, you are trying to win a championship because the pressure is there and you’ve come so close and yet you’re you feel so far away right now because like you said, AL East is stacked against you. You have so many holes you’re trying to adjust with this team. And the fact that you just laid out brilliantly about the starting pitching for this Yankees team and that you can’t rely on Cole and Rodon to start off healthy at the start of next year. If you could get a Tariq Scooble that would put you in the Dodgers territory of Cole and Rodon take as much time as you want because we have our ace, we have Max Freed is a two. And could you imagine what that rotation would look like if you had Cole and Rodon coming back to that? Like that’s just the possibility is insane there. I actually think If he’s available in that way, the Mets can beat that offer. And I think they would. I think the Dodgers could beat that offer. And I think they would. I actually think the Dodgers are in the best position to get him. They have They have so much pitching depthation. It’s got to be pitching. Like you mentioned Jones and Lombard. I’m not saying, by the way, Lombard’s dad is the bench coach in Detroit. I’m not saying that they wouldn’t be interested in these players. They might have to include him. But I think the trade for this player has to be like you might have to trade Schlitler. Yeah. You okay with that? I am because you’re upgrading Schlitler for for school. So I here here’s one thing and I we we have to cut you know we have to end this. So, but but I would do is I know how frustrated Yankee fans are about how last season ended. And I know head-to-head Toronto uh outdid the Yankees last year, which is why they won the division and why they beat them. But the gap is not that great, right? Like, and I think it’s one of the reasons like the Mariners are going to be aggressive this offseason. I feel like there were like almost every team that was in the American League playoffs could have been the Blue Jays last year. Yep. I don’t feel like there’s a dominant team in the league. And the Blue Jays really in every way except for the one that counts beat the Dodgers in the World Series. Like like if it was a boxing match, it’s no less than a 10-9 round. It might have been a 10-8 round. They outplayed them in every way and didn’t win the World Series. So I’m if I’m the Yankees and I’m a Yankee fan, I would be like I know there’s always envy to oh we got to get this guy. You’re not that far away. Like you’re essentially bringing if you got Bellinger, you’re bringing back the core of a team that I think if you played the season 50 times would have gotten to the World Series in 10 or 12 of them. Like it’s not outlandish. Like Detroit would have gotten to the World Series in a few of them. Seattle would have gotten to the World Series in a few of them. Boston would have gotten in the World Series in a few of them. The American League at that very top didn’t have a great team and had a bunch of really good ones and the Yankees were among the really good ones. And so, I get it. If I’m in charge, I want to add as many great players as possible. And I appreciate that Yankee fans are always like, “Go get this guy and go get this guy and go get this guy.” And it’s why I began this by you. You live in the world that is and not the one you want. Yeah. And in the one that is, there’s going to be a real cap on payroll. And there the people in charge who did the Janoto trade for a one-year rental, I don’t think are ready to do it again. Because I dare say if we start from say 2021 forward, no team has come close to trading the the inventory of young players that the Yankees have. And I think they don’t I think that they’re afraid of if we do scubble for a year and then believe me if they do and we’re sitting and doing this a year from now you’ll be like why aren’t they giving him 500 million right guys have Tommy John surgery twice and you know what I mean it’s like like we’re going to be doing that and they don’t want to be in that world. I think they imagine that they could be in that world for sodto like that they would be bitters. I think when they have so much money invested in Cole Rodon Freed, the idea of we’re going to trade for this guy and then have a fourth guy and have four like the six highest paid starting pitchers in baseball or eight, whatever that would be. I don’t think that’s where their mindsets at. So, I think in if you trade for school, I think you have to be like the Mets and believe we are also going to then he’s a Boris client. He’s going to get to free agency. There’s no preemptive let’s do a deal. You’ve got to believe that you’ve got a shot, if not a good shot, to keep him. Uh I don’t think that the Yankees would. I think that there’s other ways. Like I think a like at its best, a Cole Frerieded, Schlitler, Rodan, Hill, Schmidt group could be a really good starting pitching group to win in the postseason. Ultimately, a lot of bad things happen to the Yankees. If Max Freed pitches well in the postseason, they might have advanced, right? like with everything else. Oh, this this is Max Freed who’s going to finish in the top five for the Sai Young like you know like he had a bad day and the Yankees got eliminated. I think we think Max Freed is a very good starting pitcher. So I think I think they could have a good rotation. I would be very open to and again this guy makes 21 a year but like and I’m not sure that Minnesota wants to do it but I like Pablo Lopez if the medicals are good. He he had injuries last year cuz I believe that Pablo Lopez can start a playoff game. He’s not just a plugandplay guy. And I really I like the pitcher. I’ve only heard unbelievable things about him as a guy, clubhouse teammate. Like all the stuff m by the way, Terubel top top of the line teammate. That’s not I hope nobody takes that wrong. But like I think that there might be other ways to go and I don’t think the Yankees are going to do that. I don’t because I think they’re going to do a I my gut Yeah. without knowing it. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I is a plugandplay guy. Yeah. And like there’s a there’s a group of former major leaguers who went to Japan. Anthony K, Foster Griffin, Cody Ponds, who became good starting pitchers in Japan. They’re all coming back. They all are guys you can imagine going into a bullpen if you want. I think that those guys are all going to get signed to major league contracts of various sizes this off season. I have no idea if the Yankees like any of them, but let’s pretend they like Anthony Kay, the former Met. He was a high draft pick of the Mets. Uh I think he was in the Marcus Strowman trade for them, right? That’s right. So if he’s a power lefty out of the pen if he if if you if you get fully healthy. Yeah. Like he could be that. Do they like him? I have no idea. That’s not going to stop aggregators here, but I I have no idea if they like him or not, but I think that’s what they’re going to end up doing. Yeah. I’ll draw out a name. Steven Matz. Yeah. Like could he start for a month and then become your power, you know, a lefty? It’s another Marcus Strowman move though to be honest with you. Again, I’m with you on this one. I’m at with you 100%. I might not go to the top of the market. Okay. But I would not screw around with a plugandplay guy because you don’t you can’t win the season in April and May, but you can get into a shitty spot like the Orioles did last year. Waiting around for like just delaying until Cole and Rodan come back. They could have setbacks. They could have setbacks. I would not screw around with it, Ryan. I would go get a starting a real starting pitcher who I believe because here’s the other thing is the four guys I mentioned if if if you had a bet on it, uh uh um Freed, Hill, Warren, Schlitler, one of them is not going to start the season on time. Absolutely. So, you’re already now you’re down to three. Yeah. So, I would go get a real guy and then I might get a plugandplay guy, too. That’s what I’m saying. You need at least I I was thinking two starters, Joel, for this offseason. Joel Sherman, this was an awesome episode. Thank you for going through the exercise with us for five burning questions for the Yankees hot stove. I know there’s a ton of you of work for you to do here in Las Vegas um to to talk to GMs. I’m sure Brian Cashman will have some things to say and I know you’ll have questions to ask for him and we’re looking forward to your coverage throughout and we’re looking forward to the next time we get to catch up with you. But as always, Joel Sherman, we appreciate you. Sorry, I got to run and go do TV. Thanks, Joel.

On today’s episode of Pinstripe Post, Joel Sherman reports from the Las Vegas GM meetings. He joins Ryan to discuss the top 5 burning questions surrounding the Yankees Hot Stove Season.

Timecodes**
00:00 Intro
5:03 Cody Bellinger vs. Kyle Tucker
23:15 Ben Rice will play 1B
44:41 Jasson Dominguez & Spencer Jones future
53:35 Bullpen Targets & Edwin Diaz
1:05:00 Need Starting Pitchers
1:19:10 Trade for Tarik Skubal

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