Let’s have a conversation about these two

45 comments

1. Let’s not

2. they’re just bums ain’t nobody reading all that.

   > banks on the other hand, was looking great under wink.

   immediately disregarding anything you say due to that. he looked at best ok with some flashes, his year 2 with bowen at dc was arguably better

3. Banks has had horrible ball skills his whole career. Wink was just able to mask it by blitzing an absurd amount. Hes never been lockdown.

4. I like the optimism and there are some fair points.

   – With Banks: he just looks like someone who isn’t playing confident and knows he’s a liability in the system. I’d love to see what another coaching staff does with him but am no longer holding my breath. He should be able to turn into a Prince Amukamara type at the least (great athletic ability with no ball skills).

   – Hyatt: I have no idea. Obviously a reason he fell to the third round but I don’t get how we haven’t gotten anything from him. With Jameis and Hodgins – I wonder if some of this was Daboll’s preference.

5. Both ended up having serious effort problems that should have been caught in scouting, same as Toney and Neal.

   Both players are VERY athletically limited being skinny and fast with not enough muscle to hang in the NFL in the run game.

6. They probably practice against each other all week. Ass sharpens ass.

7. Some people vastly underrate the difference between college ball and pro ball.

   Hyatt stinks. He cant get away on pure athleticism to the sake extent he did in college

8. Which coaching staff told Banks to not hustle/compete on a regular basis? Because that’s where I’ve lost any hope of him becoming a contributor.

9. 2 of the worst picks in giants history. Neither should be on the roster next year

10. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses about Banks’ rookie season on here. He was overrated mostly because he didn’t spend a lot of time covering other team’s WR1s. 

    His biggest problems are his lack of ball skills and his shying away from any contact making him awful defending the run. He also often makes mental mistakes in coverage leading to penalties. 

    Banks has the physical tools and athleticism to be a starting CB in the NFL, which is why he is extremely frustrating. He just hasn’t been able to develop any ball skills, and I do feel like he suffers from serious confidence issues. 

11. Ok Joe….

    Banks was facing wr2s his rookie year and was horrible against the run then too. We just had a good coordinator that masked his deficiencies. Year 2 going against wr1s he got cooked all year and lost all confidence because the truth is he sucks. He had the worst ball skills of any corner in the league and is liability in the run. He’s just a good athlete.

    Now Hyatt was never good. He had 1 game…1 half against Arizona. He has proven he can’t run anything other than a go route. He finally learned to run anything other out route is his third preseason. He constantly released the wrong way even with a free release. He gets pressed up otherwise. Again the truth is he’s just bad. Again another athlete that’s horrible at football.

    Get over it, Schoen wasted these picks + assets for trading up. These 2 decisions alone wouldn’t get him fired but add in the failures of drafting competent ol his entire tenure, failures of drafting a competent secondary, and mismanagement of the back end of the roster outside 2022. He’s made too many big mistakes that have cost the giants games…in addition to the poor coaching

12. Nothing about the players. The jerseys are clean tho

13. Someone has a personal vendetta against Hyatt keeping him off the field. So who really knows? Can’t understand a team so weak at a position like wr and just giving up on a young player. It’s personal.

    Banks on the other hand, seen enough. Just not good enough.

14. I think there’s recently a little revisionist history going on with Banks’ rookie year personally. He had a lot of issues that still linger in his play today, I just think those flaws were better covered up by playing in Wink’s system and having Adoree Jackson opposite of him. Especially once adoree got hurt that year Banks’ struggles showed themselves a lot more.

    As far as why he hasn’t developed very well, I think it’s a mix of poor coaching and a lack of confidence. Bowen’s scheme has ran a crap ton of man coverage and Banks ironically has played better in zone schemes dating back to his rookie year including when we saw both of his int’s.

    With Hyatt, I think we all just overhyped him cuz we got excited. He’s always releasing with the wrong leverage and not able to beat press consistently. His routes were never the greatest looking and his certified one trick hasn’t even worked well since Tyrod was here. I think him playing at Tennessee fooled everyone because that offense was basically him lining up in the slot with a ton of free releases and running a track meet. And I’m not discrediting him for his accomplishments in college, I just don’t think his talent is best suited for the nfl and that he’s good at playing receiver. He’s very similar to John Ross in the sense that they’re fast and that’s kinda it. I don’t blame the offensive staff for him as of now for the reasons that seem to be Hyatt based. If he goes elsewhere and his mistakes are corrected then it’s fair game to criticize.

15. There are busts every year and Hyatt is a major bust end of story

16. Biletnikoff Award Winners don’t always translate to NFL success/quality receiver, that’s just plain false. More often than not, that’s a bad sign. Surprisingly often, picked by the Jags

    Since 2010:

    Justin Blackmon x2 (whoops)

    Marqise Lee (Miss)

    Brandin Cooks (Good, not great)

    Amari Cooper (Hit)

    Corey Coleman (Miss)

    Dede Westbrook (Miss)

    James Washington (Miss)

    Jerry Jeudy (Meh)

    Ja’Marr Chase (Hit)

    DeVonta Smith (Hit)

    Jordan Addison (Maybe?)

    Hyatt

    MHJ (Maybe?)

    Travis Hunter

17. Tae banks – I’m sure his financial advisor is an absolute star because honestly- and in almost every way- this guy has quit on football. Shying away from contact can be a subliminal response and that’s completely natural. This guy dislikes contact as a whole. Maybe he’s a germophobe – whatever the truth is, the kid has been making business decisions that rookies should never be able to take unless they’ve got all pro talent to back that up.

18. Should’ve thrown an Evan Neal analysis in there as well since we’re talking about bodies that are taking up roster spots.

    Unfortunately, I feel like Hyatt just simply can not run routes. It was the same analysis of him pre draft. Even when he’s on the field, he’s not getting open

19. “Lockdown year 1” 🤣. He was FINE for a late round rookie. Hardly a shut down corner by any stretch of the imagination. He played well enough to think of he built on the foundation that was laid he might end up becoming a solid starter. That obviously never materialized.

20. I find it curious that Joe Schoen is held solely and exclusively responsible for Banks and Hyatt’s poor choices, with Banks being a choice at the request of Wink Martindale and Hyatt’s choice and trade up being made by Daboll. He was the one who called the Rams and even negotiated the terms… But in relation to Jaxson Dart, the merits go solely and exclusively to Daboll… I honestly don’t think our GM has enough merits to be able to be in a different timeline of the new coach, but the criticisms in my opinion are very forced.

21. Two athletes that just suck at ball

22. I don’t see anyone in those pictures. Are they players and have they even played in games this year?

23. Banks and Hyatt just suck. It’s not on the coaching. It’s the drafting.

    Hyatt can’t even run a Go Route. He can’t separate or beat press coverage. Can’t even catch. WDR is somehow catching balls and putting up yards despite his limitations.

    Flott seems to be developing his skills despite Bowen.

    If we talk incompetence then it’s definitely Schoen. The guy is awful. I can not believe he is being retained. Can’t draft, can’t build a roster. Bowen is 2nd on the incompetence list.

    Daboll took Dave Gettleman’s roster, with no receivers, to a playoff win and Coach of the Year. Since then he’s had to work with Schoen’s roster. Frankly if Mara came out and said we’re firing Schoen for this piss poor excuse of a roster and giving Daboll a shot with a real GM then I’d be all good for next season.

    Who wanted Nabers? Who wanted Dart? It wasn’t Schoen. Dabs made those calls.

24. Some of us had [concerns about Banks](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/s/xgiWY22mQQ) as a rookie, too.

25. Both can fuck off…

26. I honestly think for banks, it was when Nabers came in for training camp and cooked him all summer. I remember being so excited their first day of camp bc they seemed to enjoy having the competition and challenging each other. But as the summer went on I saw banks turn into a shell of himself.

27. Send them to the browns for a new washing machine

28. Banks being in Bowens’ system has nothing to do with his inability to lock down receivers in man coverage nor does it have to do with his poor tackling or backing off contact to disregard making a tackle. He’s had several games now to show his ability since the injuries have allowed him to play, and he continues to show why he isn’t a starter nor deserving of a spot on this roster. He looks absolutely awful!
    As for Hyatt, unless you’re not watching these games, you have no argument to why he has underperformed. Plain and simple, HE SUCKS! And Schoen is trying to save face by keeping these two on the roster because they were his picks. He just let Lil Jordan Humphrey get picked off the practice squad to the Broncos because Hyatt is taking that roster spot. Not that Humphrey is Jerry Rice, but he sure as hell isnt Hyatt. He deserved to be on the active roster weeks ago.. Schoen needs to go and take these two with him.

29. Hyatt was always a boom or bust guy. If you watched him at Tennessee, he made a living on verts. Much more doable against college secondaries who are less consistently fast across the board. Now he’s seeing guys who are just as fast or faster than him. He has virtually no route tree and has just not been developed properly. Whether that’s on him or the staff, its tough to say; but its the reality regardless.

    Banks just looks like a shell of himself. That dude was a stud at Maryland and early on in his pro career. Could just be another guy that the Giants broke. Who knows.

30. Let’s not. They’re duds. Time to move on.

31. I’m sure there’s better players sitting on their couch right now.

32. I mean you can maybe potentially make an argument for coaching ruining Banks. Maybe. But Hyatt is just bad. He’s a bad route runner who isn’t great at catching the ball either. Don’t get fooled by college awards. His skill set is straight line speed against guys that didn’t make the NFL.

33. What went wrong with Banks is fairly simple. Wink wanted him explicitly for Press Coverage. Basically to hit someone at the snap and screw up the timing between the QB and receiver. Bowen doesn’t really play press coverage.

    AS for Hyatt, that I have no idea about other than Wandale and him served a similar role in Daboll’s offense, short yardage or go routes. Hyatt was drafted to take the top off of the offense as a speed demon – not how Dabs used him. And for whatever reason, Daboll decided Wandale should get all of the snaps. So, in my opinion, Hyatt’s issues are similar to Banks – he’s not getting used in the manner that they were drafted for.

    It will be interesting to see if Kafka recognizes this and utilizes the people according to their traits rather than continuing to try to shoehorn players into his scheme.

34. Banks was never a lockdown corner. I remember so many dames in his rookie season where he got absolutely cooked

35. Bet they were both raved about by our Director of scouting CHRIS MARA…

36. They’re good…

    friends.

37. Bad and worse.

38. Was banks really that good or was the rest of our secondary so bad that he wasn’t targeted? I honestly don’t remember. But the defense hasn’t been good in like 10 years.

39. I’m tired of what seems to be a prevailing sentiment in this sub that Joe Schoen has actually drafted well and all of his picks that sucked were good picks that weren’t developed. Perhaps coaching is a part of it, but I think it’s way more attributable to everyone clamoring over them as rookies and then we judge them more honestly once in their sophomore season and beyond.

    I would love to be proven wrong by new coaching coming in here and turning around these players. But if the talent was there for any of these guys, why couldn’t we even get a late round picks swap for Banks or Hyatt from teams seeing unutilized potential?

40. I’ve been listening in on Bobby Skinner’s reviews and takes, so he analyzes a lot of what their strengths and weaknesses are.

    To me, Banks may benefit from a different defensive coach. I think Wink’s pressure scheme helped to make QBs throw a lot more quickly and erratically, so that allowed to mask Banks’ weakness. He’s not turning his head back quickly enough when the ball is thrown his way. However, the lack of effort probably is stemming from all the losses mounting and a bit of a diva mentality (remember, he had an open competition against Flott this year during training camp and Flott pretty much won).

    Hyatt’s struggle is that he’s not a good route runner. He’s pretty one-dimensional and that’s usually on the deep balls. Just because you win awards at the college level doesn’t mean you will automatically translate that into the pro level..there’s plenty of players that just end up being busts because they couldn’t take it to the next level. Perhaps that was Hyatt’s ceiling, I don’t know. I’m hoping it might’ve been coaching because we know how lax Daboll was, and it probably didn’t help with Hyatt’s growth whatsoever. Maybe Kafka will change that, but I doubt it because he worked a lot more closely with Hyatt as OC.

41. I don’t know, it kills me because the same thing happen with our safety then he went to GB and started hustling and playing well.

42. With Slayton out for the next game, perhaps Hyatt will get a chance to see what he can do. Not holding my breath

43. Hyatt at best can become a John Ross type 3rd wr for us. At best. Ive seen nothing to believe he has any nfl qualities beyond speed and speed with bad hands is useless. Even this year there’s been several examples of him beating coverage and then dropping. Now Some of them were 50/50 balls which you kinda expect him to lose bc of his size but idk. You probably can’t get anything for him either. I say let Russ air it out like week two and try to give Hyatt a “breakout game” he’ll never be more than a wr3 for us. Even w all the injuries he’s still barely playing. Best case scenario he’s a speed guy who opens routes for the other receivers and occasionally houses a broken coverage td

44. Hyatt should just leave the organization and go where someone can exploit his talents. He is a good player, this organization failed him. I said the same about DJ…

    Watch some college film on Hyatt, he was predicted to go in the first round based on his talent. I suspect when he spoke to coaches, things cooled on him. The biggest knock on him was his size, as I remember it, he put on like 10 pounds over the summer.

    Again, we should do him a favor and trade him to a team that actually knows how to use his talents. Just hope he doesnt land in the NFC east…

45. Joe got the burner account cooking.