BFHS 11/14/25: The time has come

BFHS 11/14/25: The time has come

All right, it’s a TGIF edition of the Baker Fairburn Hockey Show here on Friday, November 14th, 2025. It’s been a wild ride this week with the Buffalo Sabres. I’m your host, Chris Baker. You can find me on X at Sabres Prospects here as always with your Sabres beat writer for The Athletic. That’s Matthew Fairburn. You can find all of Matthew’s work at theathletic.com/sabers. If you’re watching this on YouTube, like this video, subscribe to the channel, hit the notification bell so you know when a video drops or when Matthew and I go live. You can find the Baker Fairburn Hockey Show on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Be kind. Leave a fivestar review. Say whatever you want if you want to write a review. All right, let’s just get right to it. Matthew Fairburn because it’s Friday. I’m ready to get this week ended. But we have to talk about this Sabres team first and foremost. Kind of miss overtime games at this point. I miss those home games. These late games have been kind of wearing on me as I get older. Kind of like this weather has worn on me. If you can’t tell, I’m a little under the weather today. I don’t think you’re feeling so hot either, Matthew Fairburn. Hopefully maybe talking about this team will make us feel a little better, but I have my doubts. So, let’s just tear. You know, talking to you always makes me feel better. Talking about this team is sometimes another story. But yeah, the backtobacks late night when I’m uh when I’m not on the road, when I’m not on the time zone that they’re playing in, you know, is is not my favorite. But here we are uh 6 a.m. on a Friday anyways. But it has been it has gone from bad to worse here in the the last few days. And it was predictable, you know, as we outlined on Tuesday, the last time we spoke, that with the injury situation, everything going on, there was going to be uh some bumps in the road here that they were pretty under manned. The manner in which they’ve lost the last two games though definitely has added to the frustration I think for the fan base has increased the urgency of the situation. They had a winnable game in Utah up two to nothing. Took a lead into the third period and then pretty much collapsed on themselves for a 5-2 loss. Their best players in that game disappeared. You know, Tae Thompson and Alex Tuck were nowhere to be found against the Colorado Avalanche. They come out and they go down two to nothing quickly in the first period and get their goalie pulled. Uh they go down one- nothing 52 seconds into the game and they hung in there. You know, give them credit for hanging in there throughout the night. It was, you know, a bounce or two away from being a 4-4 game late in regulation, but ultimately they they lost six to three. They let up the insurance goal to go down 5-3 and of course let up the empty netter Chris because they’ve already let up eight empty netters this season and they haven’t scored once at six on five. So this team is now 05 and two on the road. The only team in the NHL without a road win at this point in the season. They are on a fivegame winless streak which for those keeping score at home this is the in five of Kevin Adams six seasons now they’ve had a winless streak of at least five games. Uh, and this one, will it end on Saturday against Detroit? I don’t know. But if it doesn’t, frankly, even if it does, I think we’ve reached the point where we have to start wondering where this team goes from here. It feels like to me as they sit at 58 and four through 17 games, if we assume that they need a 95 point season to be a playoff team, conservatively assume that. I think at the beginning of the season a lot of people would have said, “Man, it’s going to be a stretch for this roster healthy to play at a 95 point pace for 82 games.” Well, now they need to play at a 102 point pace to hit 95 points because of the hole that they’ve dug themselves. The Eastern Conference is wide open and they are already falling behind. dangerously behind probably considering how many teams that they need to jump and the fact that they’re without their captain, without five forwards in their, you know, regular forward group, but none of those guys are coming back anytime soon. Maybe Benson next week, you know, Zucker, we’ll see. But this is the group you got. You’ve got games that you could be getting points and you get nothing. So, here they are. Um, it’s getting bleak. Last year, the season was over by the new year because of the windless streak. This one might be over by December. Might be over by the time we’re carving up the turkey. Hell, some people are probably listening to this saying, “What are you talking about? It’s over right now.” I mean, I said going into this road trip, if they didn’t get three points, they were probably toast and they’re not going to get three points. You said 102 point pace is what they need to play at right now to hit 95. Yeah. Yeah. So, it gets even more bleak. Last year, only three teams in the entire Eastern Conference hit 102 points. Um, and leaguewide, you know, there was another four, well, we’ll call it five. Colorado had 102 last year, the team the Sabres lost to last night. So, a good pace, like 102. It’s 102 point pace for a long time, right? There’s a lot of seasons still left. Yeah. So, it’s it’s Yeah. You know, I’m not at a loss for words, but I if it sounds like I am, it’s because I’m just trying to figure out where to start. You know, where do they go from here? And injuries aside, again, no one wants to hear about it at this point. They just want results and I get it. But if you’re It starts with Terry Pagula, right? And what’s his what is he prepared to do to force some kind of change? Because your general manager can change the roster and let’s just start there. You kind of ran out of some callup candidates. You have a few left, but it’s like where is is that going to move the needle? There’s waiver claims. There’s trades. Kevin Adams has always said the trades are difficult to make. Anytime the topic comes up, that’s his reflex. When you look around the league as it presently stands on November 14th, that might be a true statement depends on what you’re offering in a trade. You have a key pending unrestricted free agent that you need to sign that might become trade bait sooner rather than later. There’s a lot of things to look at there. I don’t I I think it is hard to make a trade right now unless you start throwing some pretty big names around. On the other side of the organizational structure, if you’re Terry Pagula and you have another fivegame losing streak, when do you start forcing the issue or reprogramming your brain that I need to have another fresh set of eyes running the day-to-day operations of the team? Where do we begin? Where do we go from here? There’s all these questions, but chief among them is it it starts with Terry. What is he going to do about this? It always starts with Terry. The whole thing. He’s the one constant of, you know, 14 going on 15 years without the playoffs. And all of this comes back to what is he willing to do? What will he actually do? because we’ve been talking about Kevin Adams and his status and his, you know, his resume and whether he you has earned more time probably since the middle of that season that Don Granado got fired because we were talking since we started this podcast basically. Yeah. I mean, we Yeah, that was the season I believe we started and and we were talking pretty early about Granado and then by extension Kevin Adams because we were only talking about Granado because it was the the lever to pull. But last season, you know, we had the conversation about the danger of allowing Kevin Adams to finish the season. You know, in other sports, I think particularly in the NFL, general managers will get fired in season. It happens. Uh, but most most of the time it’s an end of season move because most of your business, most of your roster shaping is happening in the offseason. In the NHL, you have to be willing to do it as soon as possible because of all the things you just mentioned. They have a key unrestricted free agent. They have trades. Trades are going to dramatically shape your roster. and a time to make them is whenever they’re available. So allowing a a general manager who’s already hung on too long, who already probably never, you know, should have been in the chair to begin with, allowing him to continue to make these moves that are going to shake up the foundation of your team. It’s negligent at this point. it was already negligent to let him go through the trade deadline. And you know, did that trade totally, you know, was that a bad trade? We’ll see. But, you know, they have a guy that’s played a grand total of what, four games, you know, and not that Dylan Cousins is is lighting the world on fire, but point being, every one of those trades is a major decision. you know, you got rid of Dylan Cousins, a guy who two years ago, I was going back and reading some stuff from a couple years ago and like after that 22 23 season, you were talking about Dylan Cousins as one of the foundational pieces of what they were building and he still could have been that, but now you’re talking about Alex Tuck and where he fits in. I think frankly the next general manager assuming that there is one, right? Assuming that Terry Pagoula at some point will be willing to make a change because you have to assume that. I I think for a while last year we we spoke in the frame of we don’t know if Terry Pagula will even do this, if he’ll even because Kevin Adams has time on his contract. He’s got that’s right. He he’s in the final year of his deal. Like you cannot you cannot announce an extension for this guy. You could sign him to it, but you can’t anni like you can’t you know if you sign him to it, you can’t announce it. What does that tell you about what you have? Whether you should even whether you should exactly you cannot do it like you can’t and this is where I will even if you want to you know give him a mulligan for this season he hasn’t earn you know he’s already used up too many of those to begin with. But hockey aside, because this all started with business, right? Kevin Adams was going to come in and rightsize the business and be economic and efficient and effective. He’s still getting around to that third one, but this was kind of a business plan to start. Well, think about your business now because your customers are losing their minds and your customers don’t think you have any credibility. They they were questioning the whole process when it began because of Kevin Adams resume. Nothing he’s done in the last five plus years has really done much to, you know, maybe for a little while he had people bought in, but nothing he’s done in the last 5 years has changed the perception of his resume. And you have the 14-year drought on top of that. You are desperately lacking credibility from a business standpoint with your customers, and that can only go on so long. Matt, it’s not just with your customers. It’s with the employees that are running the other departments of the team. Pete Gowelli’s job is infinitely harder to do given the consumer confidence or lack thereof with Kevin Adams being the general manager of the team. The ticket people, the salespeople, the corporate salespeople, every part of the organization is impacted by this. And it all all leads to fans coming to games and spending money and having engagement with the Sabres brand and confidence in the brand. It goes far beyond the Kevin Adams conversation has changed. A year ago it was look everyone let’s just buckle up and settle in. I don’t think that ownership wants to pay another general manager to not work now that he’s in the last year of his current deal. We believe I think it’s true, right? Yeah, he is. Yeah. Be rough both. So, the the conversation shifts a little bit. I don’t see a world where Kevin Adams is a general manager of the Buffalo Sabres, regardless of the team success this year, honestly moving forward next year. I do see him in the organization because of that trust that he’s built with Terry. So, it’s a matter of when, not if, for me and what’s happening with the team right now, another fivegame losing streak. If they lose again to a good Detroit team, that could be six games and before you know it, then what do you have Edmonton? You’re you’re looking at a Calgary game that you might be able to win. But who knows at this point with this roster and and the inconsistency of the top players. I guess where I’m going with this is this is the critical month. We knew it was a critical month. And I don’t want to pile on the team as injury riddled as they are, but you have no choice because I don’t look at it as just this year. It is 14 years plus this year and five years plus this year for Kevin Adams like you’ve now accumulated. So there’s the business piece of this right that which is massive. The business piece is huge because the team is in rough shape business-wise. It’s lost a lot of trust from the local diehard customers fans. But this goes beyond that. It goes to your point, the other departments is one thing. I think about the locker room because that’s actually a big reason why, you know, you’re talking about whether this is piling on, but I I’m sitting here and I’m saying that locker room needs leadership. This organization needs leadership from the top on down. And are you feeling that? If you’re in that room, the top down leadership from ownership, from general manager, coaching staff, all of it, where is the leadership at this really tough time for the players, right? They’re going through a tough injury situation. Their captain is going through something unimaginable. Like there’s a lot and I, you know, everything going on with Dalene, like the organization has handled extremely well. I think they’ve especially probably Rasmus Dalene is feeling pretty well supported by the organization top to bottom the way the whole thing’s been handled since the summer. But the team is in such a a fragile place again in the middle of November and leadership starts at the top like and it bleeds through every part of what you do. So there’s that component of this. Then is there is just the the credibility around the league, you know, at some point that has to matter again. You have to start operating like you’re trying to win. You have to start operating like not just that you’re trying to win, but that winning is the priority because everything else with the business falls into place if you can do that. If you can actually win, you know, you’re building this team that you hope can get what, a wild card at best. Six years into your build, you’re hoping to scratch and claw to a wild card spot if everything goes right and now everything’s gone wrong and you might be back in the lottery. You know, they’ll what will probably end up happening is they’ll get healthy and they’ll go on a few runs and they’ll play their way like they did last year, you know, outside of the top seven or eight picks. I can see that happening when they get healthy. you know, they’ll the pressure’s off. They’ll rattle off some wins. We saw this team when they were relatively healthy just a few short weeks ago and they were competitive. They were competitive. They’ll win some games. They’re I don’t necessarily think they’ll go all the way to the bottom here. There’s a few bad teams in the NHL that are probably worse than them, but you never know. I mean, the difference this year is that those guys have to look around and realize Kevin Adams is in the final year of his deal. Lindy Ruffs in the final year of his deal. What the hell’s going on here? And I think those guys deserve some sort of vision from ownership, some sort of some sort of an idea of what the standard is because Kevin Adams, remember when he used to talk about the standard? He doesn’t really talk about that too much anymore, but remember when they had to raise their standard? That was the whole, you know, corporate speak, the whole reason for firing Don Granado. Well, where has the standard gone since then? Cuz it it was, you know, they hit 91 points and then they they went backwards to 84 and they needed to raise their standard. They went backwards to 79 the next year. There’s a chance they’ll go backward. They’re on pace to go backwards again this year. So, where is the standard? I think that is what that’s what your customers want to know. That’s what your players want to know. That’s what the league wants to know. what is the standard? And if the standard is just getting by and, you know, trying to save as much money as possible, then that’s that’s honestly ridiculous for, you know, this market going the reason I’m bringing up like you can make roster moves or you can do something else. It’s it’s a much easier It’s kind of like the old adage like when a team is performing poorly, they fire the coach because it’s easier to make a move at one key area than address a roster where you might have to make six or seven moves, right? For this situation, it is the the obvious move to inspire confidence in the entire organization, including the locker room, is probably to make a move now, not at the end of the year. And maybe it’s deviating from a plan that could have already been put in writing at the beginning of the year where Kevin moves to a different area in the organization. Again, not not reported, not confirmed, suspected that that’s how it’s going to go. Kalinan comes in who maybe he’s already tainted. Who knows, right? But he takes over the team. I think that hand that handoff has to happen probably quicker. Terry has to recognize that on his own. If not, you mentioned the league. When does the league, and I’m talking about the league offices, send a signal to Pagoula that this is really what you need to do. Who’s going to make him is it Picelli that’s going to get into Terry’s ear saying, “Hey, you know, I think we got to do something here or is it the league or like how does it happen?” Right? Because we’ve seen Terry be content with no change at the general manager position. It’s it’s almost like some something has to happen. Someone needs to get into his ear. Someone needs to that he trusts. And a league office, by the way, that has Brendan Shanahan sitting there, who I’m sure the league would love Brendan Shanahan to come to Buffalo and fix this. And it can’t get any worse. And I’m not I’m not suggesting that’s what they need to do. I’m just saying there’s rumors, there’s reports that he’s wanted it or would consider it this situation. That’s what is important to to point out is that people think that this is so bad here that nobody would ever want to come work for the Savers. But it’s there’s only 32 of these and you give the right setup to somebody and that’s key because Terry Pagoula has not been willing to do that. But you give the right setup to somebody and even a Brendan Shanahan I think would you know I don’t know for sure but I have to imagine you could talk him into it. Kevin Adams was pay him well you’d have to pay him. Yeah that that’s part of that correct setup you know is uh the correct reporting structure the correct you know maybe not daily phone calls like he gets from Kevin Adams but Kevin Adams was in Toronto last night according or he was on the list to be in the press box in Toronto last night. He’s not on the road with the team, which is curious maybe. I don’t know. Um, you know, a lot of people looking at Toronto’s roster wondering what’s Kevin Adams looking at and I’m wondering if Brennan Shanahan still keeps his place in Toronto because you’re talking about next steps and what happens. You know, I don’t think anybody in the fan base trusts Terry Pigula to find the next top level hockey executive, be it a GM or president of hockey operations or how he structures the whole thing. So, who is it that helps him? Is it Kevin? Is it a combination of Kevin and Yarmmo? I don’t know how that would all operate, but to your point, Terry’s the one who has to make the decision at some point. Somebody needs to tell him. I think he would win a lot of people, maybe not win a lot of people back, but he would win some people back simply by moving on from Kevin in that role. That’s why it’s critical to do it now and not wait. It’s critical to get the fans re-engaged with the brand. Again, I’m talking in business terms because you’re running a business. It’s not about sticks and pucks and it’s about revenue. It’s a real It’s a real concern at this point. It would be different if this were year three of Kevin Adams and they had only missed the playoffs for five years and he was, you know, he had the resume of, you know, any other GM around the league, right? You’d be like, “Okay, got to wait. You got to, you know, go through have some patience. You can’t cave to the fans.” The fans aren’t being unreasonable here. That’s the important thing to to point out. Like, it’s 14 years. It’s five with this general manager. And I think if you do it quickly, you get people to to your phrase there, back engaged with your product, with your brand, back feeling like this is important to Terry Pagula. And I think the Yarmmo Keolinan piece is interesting because people have such low expectations of what Terry Pagula will do that getting Yarmmo Keolinan in that chair would be enough for some people. But we also have to step back and remember that he was hired as a senior adviser. There’s not a lot of people. your pool when you’re hiring a senior adviser is a lot smaller than if you’re running a general manager search and you’re looking for the next upand cominging hockey exec or you’re you’re thinking outside the box to to try to find a GM. So, it’s not as if that is a perfect way to go about it like this guy we hired to be our senior adviser is now just going to be the GM because he’s here. He is by far the most qualified person in the building to do that job, including the guy who’s doing the job right now. But I can’t sit here and say I love the process to arrive at him. That said, there is a a real chance that had they done this in the summer and opened things up completely and landed on Yarmmo Keolin, I wouldn’t have necessarily had a problem with that. Like I I do think he is he’s qualified to do it. His resume was imperfect in Columbus, but also not bad. And he has, you know, a long he has a long track record in in the league as a scout, as an evaluator. He’s he’s wellconed, and his personality, I think, will would settle things down quickly. it would bring some of that credibility that I talked about. Even him just speaking publicly stoic about everything. Yeah. Yeah. He is no BS. He’s stoic. He’s he’s got a presence about him for sure. And I think he would command more respect in the market and around the league. But to your point about regardless of how the season goes, like they have lost like Kevin Adams has just lost a lot of that with the fan base. Like right, I don’t know if he has anybody left in his corner at this point besides the only guy that matters. That’s my point, dude. Like the if you take the pulse of the fan base, whether it’s out at a restaurant, walking the dogs in the neighborhood, social media, heaven forbid, right? The fans would have a parade if they moved on from Kevin. When you’re dead last in the East Coast, the fans would have a parade. That’s how I feel about it. That’s how it’s gotten. That’s how bad it’s gotten. And just when we were talking on Tuesday, Matt, like I didn’t really want to bury the I was trying to be realistic about the team that was suffering through injuries and how competitive they were. But even with that, when you step away and I start thinking about it, doesn’t matter that they were competitive and a couple points out of the wild card a couple weeks ago, this early end of the season, it doesn’t matter because in the big picture, the fans still feel the fans were waiting for this feeling of watching the team the past three games on this road trip and they knew it was coming. I’m running on a lot of assumptions, Matt, when I set this up, right? saying, “Okay, maybe there’s a pred like a pre-written plan already that Kevin’s going to be reassigned. He’ll he’ll be that trusted bridge to whoever else is running.” It’s an assumption. We don’t know it. You might disagree with it. Say that’s not the case, right? Then all of a sudden, if we’re talking about Terry maybe having to really be compelled to make a move and has to be considering it. If that’s not the case, if Kevin doesn’t know that he’s safe moving forward in this organization with Jeff, then there’s some competing energies, right? It’s almost like a race. Then what if you’re Kevin Adams and you know that you have to do something. If you said that you learned from the mistakes of not making a move during the 13 game losing streak last season or other learnings that he’s had since being on the job. If he’s learned, he’s got to be looking for a trade, right? He’s got to be looking to do something. It’s a race to save his job. Honestly, even scarier. Okay, that’s where I’m going. Scarier because that’s where I’m going. Well, go ahead. No, please go ahead. You You know exactly where I’m going. I mean, it’s it’s scarier for a variety of reasons, but it’s also we’re I think it’s important to go there because we’re talking about this from the fan standpoint, which makes it a no-brainer on its own. It makes business sense to show people symbolic, even if it’s just symbolically like it, moving on from him would show people that you’re trying to operate for real again. But the roster right now, Tuck, unsigned, maybe will need to be traded at some point this season if the gap is too too big to bridge. Benson, Don, and Kessle Ring contracts will need to get done. I would say sooner rather than later on all three. You know, I know Kessle Ring hasn’t played great, but I think the sooner you get those done, the lower the number is going to be. And I think all three of them should probably be here for a while. You’ve got those situations. You have an unknown number of other situations that could pop up, right? I’d say at the top of the list would be Taage Thompson because he’s the domino potentially if Alex Tuck doesn’t want to stick around for whatever is next. And that’s where the leadership and the vision and the plan matters because you need to tell Tuck if he’s signing like you need to tell him what he’s signing up for. Is it another semi-rebuild? Is it uh you know are you retooling on the fly? like what are you signing up for? Who’s the guy that’s going to be calling the shots? This guy wants to win and you know, you need to figure out, you know, what that looks like to get him on board. And who else isn’t on board? Who needs to be talked back into it? And you’re going to start getting calls, right? To your point, if it’s a race for Kevin Adams, if he’s trying to prove himself, prove that he did something different, you’re going to be getting calls on players. You’re going to be getting inbound. you know, you’re all of a sudden backed into a corner. You don’t want a desperate Kevin Adams making decisions that are going to impact this roster beyond this season. No. Kevin and Yarmmo need to come together and almost I think this is where if I was in the room with them, I’m going to say to them what we always say on the show, they’re all currency. Go out, put the whole thing available. Maybe not Darene. Ding is the one I wouldn’t I I Ding is the one that you don’t And what the hell is he thinking right now, by the way? It’s a great stepped away, right? Teams now 10 and two without him in the last two years. He’s really good. He’s really important. You shouldn’t go 010 and two. The the Panthers have won some games without their two most important players. Like, you can’t be that bad. That shows how much how much weight is on that guy. Like we talked about when he stepped away. like the added pressure of stepping away because you know that the team collapses every time you don’t play. Kevin and Yarmmo need to come together and identify their list, their targets, be proactive, and be strategic. I’m going stop you there. Kevin shouldn’t it. I mean, well, right now, but no, but I’m saying no, I know. Well, okay, that’s that’s almost needs to go, right? That is the point, but he’s still here. So, really, it’s Yarmmo. Okay. But I guess this is where they come together as a conglomerate and they have to do this together. Kevin is the general manager of the team presently or because I again I’m sitting here saying the whole theme of this podcast is do something Terry to put Yarmmo in that position right now to take over. With that said, Kevin is still here. They need to come together. Yarmmo can run the discussion. Yarmo can run the whole thing, but Kevin is still here. I guess that’s what I’m saying. Yeah. Okay. Like I said, it’s a race. Okay. Like, and Yarmmo can run that whole search effort for the next player, you know, the next big trade acquisition. I guess what I’m saying is they need to be strategic about it. Okay. I’ll I’ll I’ll satisfy you. Yarmmo needs to be strategic about it and be proactive before it’s desperation mode because Yarmmo is going to have to say they make a move on Kevin, Yarmmo is going to have to act with desperation to an extent. He’s going to have to assess the coaching staff. He’s going to have to do a lot of things here. It depends how how the pl the plan is put into place. And that is why I say the process at arriving at Yarmmo and the the process that they take with these next steps is an important one because how you’ve outlined it right now. You’re right. Yarmo probably would have to be a little bit desperate, but the next person shouldn’t be. If that person is Yarmmo, then maybe he should get the benefit. If you’re gonna set this guy up for success, because that that is something that they did not do with Kevin Adams. They did not set him up for success in any way, shape, or form. not only because he hadn’t really gotten the requisite on job experience to be ready for the role, but then he had to fire everybody around him, you know, that had that could help. And, you know, spending wise, they haven’t, you know, been up to up to snuff until maybe this year. So, yes, Yarmmo probably would be desperate in that scenario, but the next person calling the shots needs to be set up for success, which is why the next steps really matter. And when you’re deciding what happens, like you’re going to be seen as a desperate team that teams are going to call you on Taage Thompson to try to get him. They’re going to call you on Tuck obviously because he’s UFA, but they’re going to call you on everybody. I’m open on those conversations. And and you need to have sort of a clear head if if it’s Yarmmo. And I’m not saying if they make the move they need to give Yarmmo a 5-year contract, but give Yarmmo some idea of what his future in the organization looks like because you have the pieces in place to make a jump probably quicker. Like you don’t need to tear it down. You don’t need to go, you know, not even going to use the word because I don’t want to get you riled up this early on a Friday morning, but you don’t need to race to the bottom. You need to be smart about how you do this and not piss away your assets, your currency, as you said, you know, the the players that can help you win games, that can help you be competitive as soon as next year. So, it can’t be desperation mode. And that’s another reason to remove Kevin Adams because human nature suggests that he could go into desperation mode just because he’s in the final year of his contract. His reputation, whatever’s left of it, is on the line. And the place in the standings would suggest that you you are desperate. Now, it’s why when we spoke on Tuesday, my my thought was like, yeah, there’s not a lot out there for trades, but there’s something there’s something a little bit to show your team. Well, now another week has passed, right? Another few days have passed, two more losses have happened. Like, this is getting away from you. Yeah. No, and that’s exactly There’s been a seismic shift in the way that I think about it in the past couple of days, past 48 hours. Um, I was willing to be maybe a little more patient to see if this group with band-aids all over them, you know what I mean? Could do something. And it’s just they can’t. They need some help. They need either help with new bodies or help with inspiration. Yeah. They need leadership that has, you know, Dene is still growing and coming into himself as a captain for sure. you know, he’s not experienced in that role. He’s not, you know, um he’s not one of the mo most seasoned captains in the league, but him leaving creates even more of a vacuum. Like, he’s still he’s worthy of that role. And he is this team’s heartbeat, this team’s leader. And to see the way Alex Tuck and Taage Thompson played on Wednesday night as the de facto next guys, right? The alternate captains like no shots on goal. You know that Thompson had a goal and an assist last night against Colorado, but that game against Utah, that game against Carolina, like when these guys are your your next up, it’s not there. And that’s why I say it starts even higher than that. It starts from the top down and it’s not there either right now. It’s not there with ownership. It’s not there with the general manager and I think you can make a case it’s not really there with the coaching staff. Uh I think there’s definitely a conversation to be had there and the next decision maker should really look at that with a critical eye too because I think they’re they’re lacking uh in that department as well. So they’re it’s leadership, but it’s also just simple on ice like personnel. They’re short, right? You understand? You understand that when I go through the scenarios like and I say I talk about the race. That’s all I’m doing is going through the scenarios. That’s not the conclusion that I want to see. I want to see change at the top in the leadership of the organization. That’s exactly where I’m at. But I’m saying this is possible. These competing energies could be going on. Terry thinking things over. Kevin may be fighting for his surviv, you know, his survival mode as a general manager, but if you want to salvage the talent that you have, and there are some talented hockey players that are not among the injured that are playing, that may be struggling. If you want to salvage the talent and give yourself a better chance to stay competitive moving forward, there’s one conclusion, right? There’s one conclusion that that needs to happen and and we’ll see if it does. But I don’t enjoy like, you know, calling for I I said this when we were talking about Granado a couple years ago. I don’t enjoy coming on here talking about calling for someone’s job. I don’t. No, I mean it but at the same time it’s but you have to be able to assess it like properly and that’s what’s that’s Yeah. You have to take a step back outside of the Buffalo bubble and think how would any other team be handling this? You know, it’s a it is professional sports like you get paid a lot of money oriented man to win. And it’s a and it’s a it is a business too. to bring it all the way back to what we talked about at the start. You know, I I think about the business realities. So, like you said, calling for somebody’s job, it’s not it’s certainly not my favorite part of doing what I do and, you know, arriving at that point. But I also think about the people who are paying money to go into that arena still and the people that are in some way, shape or form investing their money or time in this team. this team that means a tremendous amount to the community here in Buffalo and has meant something for a long time and represented something to the rest of North America, the rest of the world in some ways because hockey is a global sport. like this team represented something about Buffalo, about the community, and what it represents now is a shell of what it did 15 years ago. And so I’m with you that yeah, it’s it’s uncomfortable at times to be like, “This person should not be doing their job anymore.” But when you get paid a lot of money to be the the caretaker essentially of something incredibly important to y the community, our neighbors, right? Our the people that we see in the grocery store like in a sport that is a an underdog sport in in America, right? Like, but Buffalo always punches above its weight. And now these people that are spending their money, like I care a little bit more about that. The people that are spending money and investing time to care that still care about this team, you know, that that can be won back, but they can’t it can’t go on forever. You know, it it can’t it can only go on so long before you lose even more people. I mean, they’re going on year 15 of the drought, which means that there are kids graduating from high school who don’t remember what it was like to see this. Like, what age do you really become a sports fan? Maybe like six or seven. Like an entire generation wiped out and an entire generation. That’s what’s crazy about this, Matt. When Terry bought the team, Ted Black came in, they did all these studies about when a young human being does start identifying an allegiance with a sports fan, they put a lot of energy into that and listen to what you just said. It’s probably like, yeah, we’re not even using seven years old, right? Like I’ve got a four-year-old and he doesn’t really, you know, he hasn’t wrapped his brain around any of it necessarily. Maybe just starting to. So maybe it’s but he just wants to listen to our conversations. Exactly. You know, in terms of when it actually sinks in, you’re sitting here and like I said, kids graduating from high school, they were like three years old when the team made the playoffs last and you know, that team lost in the first round. So the whole ‘ 05, 06, 06, 07, like that group that that really caught everyone’s attention that everybody still talks about is they’re they’re on the 20-y year anniversary this year of that team, the 0506 team. They’re going to bring those guys back. Yeah. They’re going to celebrate them. They didn’t, you know, like they’re bringing those guys back and people love those guys, you know, that that that is still such a legendary group in this community, which shows you, like I said, what it means to people and that’s why, you know, yeah, it may be uncomfortable to go here, especially, you know, the the situation is not the situation is not ideal for Kevin Adams. like they’ve gotten a lot of bad luck this year. Nobody’s denying that. We don’t need to go through all the injuries again and everything that’s happened. They were reasonably competitive a few weeks ago, but still it felt like healthy. Best case scenario, they were going to be scratching and clawing to get to 95 points. So, it’s not as if he built a juggernaut or made the playoffs a couple years ago and earned any sort of benefit of the doubt. And so, this is the last year of your contract. These are the breaks. Maybe this is just the the hockey gods telling you it’s time. Terry, if I look at the story board of our shows this year, team starts 0 and3. We were questioning coaching. Then we started to see some progress. We’re like, okay, but guarded optimism is probably the best way to put it. But now we’re right back to kind of where we were coming into the season. Clean slate was given, but we also said Thanksgiving. You and I talked about it before we even started our run of shows this year. We’re like, we should put a little timer up day a day countdown to Thanksgiving in the upper leftand corner of this podcast. It’s kind of what we’re doing right now. Yeah, we’re here. If you think about it, we’re here. We’re here. It’s um Thanksgiving has arrived uh early, I guess. We’re a couple weeks there and it feels like the the season is is pretty close to on the brink here. So it is it is um so yeah I don’t enjoy calling for someone’s job but like we’re not doing our jobs if we don’t the responsibility well the responsibility yeah is is to the the readers the listeners you know that’s the viewers however people consume you know my content our content and I mean we’re not it it’s not as if we’re saying something completely out of line out outlandish here. Like the guy has had a lot of time, collected a lot of checks, made a nice living, and got to do something that, you know, he wouldn’t have gotten to do in any other market as soon as he did. And the results are the results. And it’s a results, it’s a it’s a wins and losses business. And maybe he gets to do something else in the organization. I don’t know. You know, maybe I don’t think that’s the end of the world if he does. I think he might be better at something else. Uh be hard to see him in the cafeteria. I would think they have they do probably have to be careful about that if like exactly what he’s doing because and and that is I think you know there’s you talked about it you know assuming that he’ll probably stick around right in some capacity just because he’s so close that but you know what like I don’t think it’s a guarantee. Oh, no. No. I don’t think it’s a guarantee either. But here’s the thing, Matt. I think he did his I think he did what Terry needed him to do these past couple of years. But that that leg of the journey is done. It’s over. It has to be over. You have to you have to operate like a serious team. Again, you have to operate at the the very top level in terms of office spending, front office spend. Like, you have to do that. It’s beyond time. If you care about this, if you care about winning over the fan base, if you care about being a competitive team, if you don’t, then I don’t know, we have to assume that he cares enough to to do that. And I think, yeah, we’ve seen it in other places where it seems like, oh, a guy is so close with the GM, they or so close with the owner, they would have to find another spot for him or they would have to reassign him. I think Kevin’s personality and his relationship with Terry would allow him to humble himself enough to do that. But I also don’t know that Terry at some point Terry Pagula might just say, “Look, I don’t even know where else to put you where it’s not going to be weird to your point in the cafeteria in the halls.” And I think maybe maybe it’s best to just end this here. So, we’ll see how that goes, if that goes, what the hell happens from here. But they got Detroit on Saturday and on we go. TMP’s gonna give Kevin a little Danny Non, you know, it’s like, “How’d you like to mow my lawn?” You know, from uh Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know where we go here either, but um I’m sure we’re going to talk about it some more if it doesn’t happen. So, look um we’re almost 50 minutes. And hey everyone, like this video, subscribe to the channel, leave a comment about any of this in the video. Who do you want to be the next GM? Do you think TMP will make a move? Do you want a wholesale change? Do you need to fumigate the entire hockey operation staff top to bottom, including Yarmmo? Leave a comment. Let us know what you’re thinking on this. Matt, let’s get out of here. Um, so can you do your plugs before we go? Unless you have any parting shots. I mean, we got other episodes to do. We’ve got we got more shows to do. We got to leave something. We got uh what, 65 games to go here. So, we got to Jesus. We got to pace ourselves a little bit. People can find my work at theathletic.comsabers. As always, I’ve got a story from last night’s game. I have a a stockwatch that I I wrote after the Utah game with some thoughts on some guys who are doing pretty well. Uh we didn’t get to Each Roseanne today. There were other pressing matters, but he’s playing pretty well. Um so yeah, you can find what I’m I’m writing there and what I will continue to write about this team as as the weeks go on and they reach this critical fork in the road point as a franchise. Go and check out Matthew’s work at the aletic.com/sabersabers for Matthew Fairburn for the production crew who hopefully is uh getting ready to crack some eggs. Two eggs over medium. Little piece of toast for me to have my coffee and my whle. I’m ready for that. I’m getting hungry. I’m Chris Baker. Thanks everyone uh for making this show part of your routine. Matthew and I will be back again very soon. We’ll see you then.

Kris Baker and The Athletic’s Matthew Fairburn discuss everything Buffalo Sabres. Read Matthew’s latest at The Athletic: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6806613/2025/11/14/buffalo-sabres-winless-streak/