How did the Atlanta Falcons land in this MESS?

How did the Atlanta Falcons land in this MESS?

Hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Joe Patrick on football where, as you can see, I’m joined by the one and only Mark Zeno. Mark, you know, you have like a cult following now from the Monday press conferences. The people in the comments section love you. Um, never thought anybody Atlanta would ever man of the people. I mean, the idea that one, you know, uh, I’m on Joe Patrick on football makes me feel honored. Um, number two, I didn’t know when we got to a spot where I all of a sudden became the the harbinger and the bearer of uh honesty when it comes to the level of uh, you know, holding the Falcons accountable, but here we are. Um, it has obviously been a belief storm of events that have have led down this road. Yeah. Um, and look, you know, is it is it wrong if I just start out by saying I told you so? Can I can can I start the show that way? You’re well within your rights. you’re well within your rights. Is there what what specifically did you did you tell us? Because look, you know, when I was filming on Dukes and Bell last week and you know, I did that little uh internet thing, the little blog thing they do before the show, the morning warm-up thing that they do on on on online and I posted a clip of it on my Instagram. It’s Mark Zenos Twitter. Um, and uh, I try to tell people like manifestly the problems with the Falcons started the day they decided to draft Michael Penn after signing Kirk Cousins. And it’s not because Michael Penn was a bad player. Look, you and I both know this and and if Arthur Smith had stayed here, he was drafting Michael Penn. What he wasn’t doing was signing Kirk Cousins and then doing that. He was drafting. He was at Arthur Smith is a huge Michael Penn fan. He was. I don’t fault the what I fault the organization for is trying to do both and trying to to to outsmart the room and think they were getting ahead of the curve. Uh it’s the equivalent of like you know when it’s fourth and inches like not even a whole yard like half a ball length and you’re in a shotgun five wide receiver set split formation like no just lean forward and get the damn first down like you’re trying to be too cute. But it’s funny because some somebody on Twitter brought this back to me. totally I I mean I always knew this was the case but I forgot that I had tweeted this and somebody you know said hey Zeno you nailed it and I don’t like ever go back and read previous Twitter I have enough trouble reading current Twitter but I wrote this like April 26th which I think was like a day or two after the draft um and I said objectively here’s the path of the Falcons right here are the paths that this whole thing goes down Cousins plays well for the next two or three years they go to the playoffs pennet sits three or four years and now you made a poor decision to draft him because you wasted a first round pick on a rookie contract on a quarterback that never saw the field. Right? So, that was one way. Cousins doesn’t play well or gets injured. Penn plays you made a poor decision in signing Cousins. Right? Cousins is average gets benched. Penn is average. Can’t play. Now, you made two bad decisions. Like from the beginning I said the only way this works out is a very tight window where Cousins plays well for two to three years, retires or gets traded or whatever, then Pennix comes in, plays really, really well, and the team makes the playoffs for seven or eight straight years. I was like, that’s a really hard ask. That’s what I tweeted the night, you know, a day after the draft, whatever it is, which is why I hated the way they did it. Like I loved the Kirk Cousin signings at the time. All of us did. Don’t play revision is history, people. We all 90% of the city was on board with us signing Cousins, right? You could argue whether it should have been three years, four years. You could argue about the price fine, but the idea of bringing an established quarterback here after a year of Mariota and a year of Ritter um was what exactly everybody thought was was the right move. And guys like Kyle Pittz, Drake London, even Bjan Robinson, like they needed that veteran leadership and somebody who was going to kind of get them on board all sing from the same him sheet. So everybody was on board with that. And then, you know, people tried to massage the whole Pennix thing like it’s a smart idea. No, it it wasn’t. It never it was just it was just a small chance that it was going to work out. And again, when when the Packers did it, they never had any intention of ever starting the guy, right? Like it was never and when Ro Don’t give me Rogers. There’s 2005. It’s 20 years ago. It was a completely different league. Okay? So, don’t even that doesn’t even apply anymore. When the Packers did it with love, they never had any intention of moving on from Aaron Rogers at the time. It was it was just a safety net plan, which again, everybody at the time was like, “What the hell are you drafting him for?” And even at that, guess what? Jordan Love ain’t that good. Jordan Love isn’t that good. So, it hasn’t exactly worked out for them. And then the Chief Oh, the Chiefs, Patrick Mahomes, completely different scenario. Alex Smith was in the last year of his deal. They knew they were not resigning him. And oh, by the way, they were a playoff team three years in a row, winning the division. That was not the Falcons. So, you tried to be cute and it blew up in your face because there was more opportunities for it to be bad than it was to be good. It Yeah, it’s funny that you bring up Mahomes. And by the way, it’s it’s also worth noting that like even in like the perfect scenario for the Falcons, I still think that it’s a dicey situation where if Kurt Cousins is playing as well as he, you know, theoretically should have or could have played, um would have been awkward getting off of a quarterback that’s on that level and then going to a guy who literally has not started for you yet, especially when you theoretically were making the playoffs two two or three years in a row, right? But it’s funny that you it’s funny that you bring up Mahomes because Terry Fontau kind of has a story in Mahomes going to the Chiefs where he was obviously in the the Saints front office and they get gazumped by the Chiefs. The Chiefs trade up one pick in front of them where apparently the Saints uh were ready to take Mahomes and maybe the Chiefs even taunted the Saints a little bit about about that draft pick after they made it. um knowing that the Saints wanted wanted to draft Mahomes and I wonder just reflecting on that whether Fontau was just like so obsessed with that having happened to him in the past and then coming into this situation where he feels like he has to go out and get his future quarterback that he just was not going to let that situation pass up. Well, and I I don’t believe it was Fonto pushing the button here. I mean, obviously, and I agree. Arthur Arthur Blank said out loud. He said it out loud that they weren’t going to be in a situation again like they were with Matt Ryan and not having a successor. So this was a decision at the ownership level to do this. Fatner was the guy who helped choose the guy that they wanted, right? that I believe that, you know, he had a role in that decision, but they they it was mandated they were going to have some sort of plan after signing Kirk Cousins because we they we knew at most he was a three-year investment, maybe four if you you get very lucky to get a fourth year out of him. So, they knew that they were going to have to move on. They just tried to do it before they needed to do it and it and it didn’t work. And so, now you’re in this whole mess. And and the bigger the the biggest question of the whole mess really goes back to the thing is can Pennix play. Now everybody is going to sit there and point to coaching. I I will say this. You’re not going to like no one’s going to like hearing this. You didn’t lose the last three games because of coaching. You just flat out didn’t. They weren’t out coached. If you watch the games, they weren’t out coached. There might have been some game management decisions that were questionable, but that happens in every football game. there’s, you know, 12, 13, 15, 16 games a week. There are two dozen bad coaching decisions within the game, right? But that’s not the reason you really lost those games. On the whole, I agree with the coaching that has been subpar. I don’t think there’s any debating that. I mean, the the bigger problem here is that in reality, you have a glorified offensive assistant, quarterback coach calling players for you. And in reality, and I I kind of hate to say this out loud because I, you know, I genuinely like him, you gotta glorify DB coach running your team. And and that’s, you know, like it’s just that that’s the reality of it. I mean, you know, it’s I believe RAW is a good coach. I just don’t think he’s a very good head coach. And those are different responsibilities. They’re they’re completely different. And so when you’re in this situation that the Falcons are in right now, you know, the scramble is for the front office is how the hell do we get out of this? I mean, we don’t know as we sit here on Tuesday evening. Um, and I can tell you this much. I verified this. Pennix was supposed to fly out of Atlanta today to go get more tests done. And let’s just give everybody the background here. So, and I understand I was kind of ticked off in the press conference on Monday that Rahee wasn’t really giving clear answers, but I got a little bit more clarification on it because I asked certain people and I I got more clarification like yes, the Falcons have their assessment. Okay. So, what happens after a injury of this magnitude? Of course, the agent get gets involved. So, because the agent controls the player when these things happen, right? So, the agent says, “We’re going to go get it from our guy.” So, that’s going to take another day, another 24, 48 hours. And then even at that, the agent turns around and says, “Well, maybe we should get a second opinion after that.” So, this could be two or three days before they get all the opinions that they need. And then, oh, by the way, ultimately surgery is up to the player, not the organization. So, then Panics has to sit down with his team, his agent, his business manager, everybody else, and then tell the Falcons, hey, you know, we’re going to have surgery or we’re going to try rehab and we’re going to wait. Like the disaster of all disasters on top of this disaster, Joe, is imagine they try to go the route of rehab and then all of a sudden it gets to middle of January and they go, “Okay, now we’re having surgery.” Right. Right. Like they want to see if they, you know, swelling goes down and everything else, they could, you know, take some more tests to say, “Okay, maybe we got some ways we can work on this.” And then you drag it out another six weeks. And then you decide to have surgery in December, at the end of December, beginning of January. Now, you know, he’s definitively done for all of next year. Yeah. So, there’s just still, as bad as it is to say, there could be more disaster coming. Yeah. And it’s and it’s worrisome especially when you look at the way that you know the kind of injury management has been dealt with on this team whether it’s Storm Norton this year who has the foot injury and then comes back and I don’t I don’t I don’t know what happened there but he clearly you know something I don’t know if again I don’t want to allude to the fact that he was being rushed back but clear it sounds like he like you know reagravated the injury at some point during the the window to return to play and so he’s on the bench for the season. You look at Troy Anderson last year where he he does his knee in what was it week six at the time and then they they tried to get him back they get him back on the field for a couple games kind of toward the later part of the part of the season before he goes down again and now he’s going to have been out for a full calendar year at this point. Um and so you worry about you know will Michael Penn kind of be in the best hands possible? I I certainly hope so, but I’m I’m I’m kind of on the pessimistic side of his return and just generally because generally speaking, that’s how it’s been for the Falcons with injuries this year. Again, the Darnell Mooney thing I just I Darn Mooney thing is another one. Look, the Falcons PR doesn’t handle the injury report or the injuries, right? So, I I’ll give them a little bit of they have to deal with the the issues with it. But, man, dude, just broken collarbone. Like, it here’s the thing, and that’s what I was saying. And I was like, when you say something breaks, that in the minds of non-medical people, which is 90% of everybody, 95% of everybody, I have a definitive timeline of when a bone breaks and when it heals, right? Like, right, I I I won’t understand what was the reason to hide like soft tissue. Okay, let’s Lamar Jackson like two or three years ago, you know, had a hamstring injury or or, you know, a knee injury that wasn’t a break and he ended up sitting out the every week. We thought he was coming. He sit us out soft tissue stuff. Okay, we can we can kind of understand that world. But a break kind of denotes, okay, he’s got a broken collarbone. He’ll be back in six weeks. He’s going to miss all the training camp. You know, it was just weird. It’s a weird way they do business. And you know, and I told him, I said, “The problem is you guys have lost all benefit of the doubt when it comes to injuries because of the contin going back to Cousins last year. You’ve lost all benefit of the doubt with everybody. you tell me there’s an injury, I no longer have to I no longer will take you at face value that the injury is what you says it is because I you’ve shown me time and time again that the way you report this stuff is sketchy. Yeah. And you know what’s interesting is I feel like now since the tables have really turned on the Falcons season, especially in these last couple of weeks, I feel like Raheem is now starting to be more open about the injuries. And it’s like is is the your position in like, you know, where you are kind of in the playoff race or the success of the season kind of dictating like how you are communicating like what injuries are occurring or how honest you basically want to be, how much you want to divulge. Yeah, publicly. I I think that just kind of rubs people the wrong way. Uh and I will say this much and I don’t I mean I think you noticed it too. I mean even after previous losses, Rock comes in, he’s still got a certain amount of energy to him. Even if we didn’t like the answers, you know, he stood a little taller and he was he was pretty defeated on Monday. You could tell like he just was carrying a lot of weight. No one I’m not asking anybody to feel bad for him. He’s a professional head coach in the NFL. Like he’s got one of 32 jobs in the world. So, I’m not asking anybody to shed a tear, but from being in there week after week and being around him enough, like that’s the first time I’ve really ever seen him down spirit and down. And that ought to tell you where things are right now and and and how low it’s really sank um for this team. And I know people think the season is over. Um and for all intents and purposes, it is as far as the playoffs are concerned. I’m definitively curious to see how they finish out, right? like definitively definitively curious to see who’s still playing hard um how this is going. Are guys still fighting or or are they just playing for jobs? Are they just playing for something on tape that they can get? And you know you I’ve seen people make the argument about blowing the whole thing like you’re not blowing it up. And here’s the thing, you’re not blowing it up. And and Pennix is your quarterback whether it’s in 2026 or 2027. This was the problem with this thing. there was no other offramp, right? Like you committed to Pennix as the next guy. And so even if you did have your top 10 pick, you weren’t drafting a quarterback anyway, even if Pennix doesn’t play in 2026 because this is what you committed to, right? And and you like I said, you you made it such a small window to get through to be successful with this plan that it was doomed to fail. And you know, now you’re in a scenario where it’s like, oh well, Cousins supposed to play and Penn was supposed to learn and you know, we weren’t going to draft in the top 10 the next couple years. I mean, it’s this is an abject disaster. Oh, yeah. Clearly. And that and that’s the abject disaster is what to me is kind of written all over Raheem Morris’s demeanor when he comes into that press conference on Monday. like he knows it, we know it, he knows we know it, we know he knows we know it, you know, and it’s just like one of those things. Um you know that I know you and I know that you know and I know that I know you. Yeah. Exactly. and and and you know I I felt like Raheem’s superpower um as as a coach is is that you know bringing that energy that that positive energy and um even in the media like I’ve always said he’s kind of like the antithesis of Arthur Smith in this sense where it’s like Arthur Smith um rubbed people the wrong way uh in in media but there was a lot of substance to the things that he would often say but it was hard for people to kind of grasp on to it because of whether it was the language he used or general his just general demeanor and Raheem’s kind of the opposite. Raheem is like very upbeat, energetic, people like it. Uh especially if he has something fun, exciting to talk about, you know, he’s going to make the most of it. But ultimately, there’s not a whole lot of like football substance there in what he’s in and what he says. No, there’s not. And speaking of which, well, since you brought his name up, um let’s talk about good old Arthur Smith for a second. Okay. Um, should I take my victory lap now when uh you you might have been on the island with me? I think you were, but I died on that island with the Atlanta Falcons. You’ve been more vocal on it. We’re we’re both on it, but yeah, you’re the only person out there who definitively said he should not have been fired. He’s the guy. He was a good coach and he should have stayed here. And I can guarant I would guarantee you that if he was still here with this current roster, they make the playoffs last year. When they go six and three with Kirk, even if they even if they did take Kirk and did the Penn State thing with Arthur Smith, I guarantee you they made the playoffs last year. They do not go on that fivegame slide, even with a banged up Kirk. There’s just a different level of football knowledge as you said and the way you went about things. So, uh, that was, and it’s funny because I remember telling people this in the beginning of the year when when Penn started because I genuinely believe Penn was going to be good. I still think he’s got a chance to be good. I don’t, we don’t know what we have yet. We don’t know. Yeah, we have a large I mean, remember, he hasn’t even played a full 17 games yet in this league, right? So, we don’t 100% know what we have. We know the sample size doesn’t really wow us at this point, but you know the idea that Pennix is good is when I was telling people like I think they may have found the guy and you know me I always tell you process over results. I hated the process of getting him because the litany of mistakes and the litany of bad decisions they made along the way to get to Michael Penn is laughable. Mhm. It was laughable how many bad decisions and how many wrong decisions they made in a row and they think they finally found their guy. Now again, we’re sitting in limbo trying to figure out if they had found their guy, but yeah. Uh I will but I take a free lap on Arthur Smith. Yeah. I I I mean I think we can agree that, you know, one of those bad decisions was that firing because he, you know, he did more with less every year until the last year. Although even though even even his last year, you know, he was dealing with a quarterback situation where he knew midway through that season if not earlier that that was not attendable. Do you remember when Marcus Marota was playing and people were screaming for Ritter? Yeah. Oh yeah. Arthur Smith told me face to face and he told all of us in those scrums that he would hang out with us after the Monday press conference. The dude wasn’t ready. His first they knew he wasn’t ready. It got to a point once they knew that they really weren’t going to make the playoffs and the math was so not in their favor. Last four games, let’s give Ritter a shot, right? Let’s let’s at least get something on tape. It’s something we can work with. That was the only reason he played otherwise if they were 500 somewhere remotely close to 500 with four games left. There’s no way Desmond Ritter sees the field. They knew he wasn’t good. They flat out knew it. Arthur Smith, but they had no other choice that year than to take a quarterback because they knew Mariota was not they couldn’t go another year. Yeah. It was a one-year deal. They knew they had to do it. And again, that was part of the raw deal that he got when he got bent over a barrel when when the owner did what he did with Matt Ryan. I mean, I don’t want to relitigate the whole thing. I I I’ll I’ll take my victory lap, but I mean, that but I mean, that’s part of the well, one, the decision-m that has happened over the last course of so many years, and it kind of, you know, undermined, you know, what was happening in Arthur Smith’s tenure at that point. And on the Desmond Ritter point, I want to say that, you know, I think a lot of people maybe because Arthur later was fired and Terry Fontau stayed that the decision to do what I called the Ritter Gambit uh was like an Arthur Smithdriven decision. And I don’t think that that’s necessarily the case. I don’t think it’s the case that Arthur Smith was like against it. I you know, it was it was something that they did, you know, it was a decision decision they came to in tandem. And it’s not the best position to be in, but also you have to you have to look at the timing of everything that was happening during those years and the quarterbacks that were available to them where they really weren’t that draft in 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. The worst quarterback that came out of that draft that was worth a spit. I mean, you know, they had but they had to do something. They had to try and take a flyer and hope it worked out. So, and and they went seven and 10 that year with with Ritter and and ultimately Exactly. And then like he should have gotten a medal for going seven and 10 with Desmond Ritter. Do you think his coaching staff with Desmond Ritter would ever go seven and 10? How about no. And the thing is like the thing is like you know Arthur Smith as a play caller of that team had a clear identity and could lean into certain aspects of that team. There was a game that they played against the Browns. I referenced this on a podcast several weeks ago, but there was a game they played against the Browns and it was it was a Slugfest. was in 2022 in like the the the I think the game was in Cleveland too, right? No, it it was it was it was it was in Atlanta. It was in Atlanta. Yeah. Yeah. Um but like they were struggling. They came out after halftime and ran the ball 13 straight times down the field, scored a touchdown, took control of the game from that point and and it was over. And it just has never felt like under Raheem Morris and and Zack Robinson as the offensive play caller that there’s been that that thing that aspect of the team that they could consistently rely upon when the chips are down, you know, when things aren’t kind of going well that they could just kind of go back to that. Well, and that’s what to me is been most frustrating with this Falcons team over the last couple. Yeah. I mean, look, the at best the offensive play calling, the offensive scheme has been disjointed, right? Um you know, they they were able to take advantage of some lesser defensive opponents like Washington, right? Uh and put together what looked like a really good game. Um and it turns out Washington is awful on defense. I mean, that’s so that that’s really what that boiled down to. But, you know, there the coherence in the play calling um isn’t there and and what can you say? I mean, you know, I I don’t have many conversations with Zack Robinson, and I don’t, you know, at this point, I don’t see a reason to, to be perfectly honest with you. He’s not going to illuminate me with anything that I can’t see with my own two eyes. And I don’t say that to be arrogant. I just say like I I I know what I’ve looked at for the last what are we talking about 20, you know, 25 games now at this point in time. So, um, the point simply is is that, you know, Robinson’s in over his head. Uh, I I think we know that. Um and and regardless of what happens everywhere, I mean, I can definitively tell you he’s not the OC next year, right? Yeah. I think there is a small world where actually, brace yourself, Falcons fans, Raheem stays. Um I think the most likely scenario is Terry stays and Raheem goes. Um, but can you lay out the case for like what why why it would be that um that would stay that that either one stays. Well, I’ll lay out the case for Raheem right now. Okay. I mean, you know, um for Raheem staying, if you fire another coach and you’re on five coaches in 11 years, I’ve been here in Atlanta 11 years. Mike Smith, Dan Quinn, Arthur Smith, Raheem, and then you go to somebody else. That’s five. So, if you’re firing a coach every two years, you’re basically the New York Giants at this point, despite having four Super Bowls, the Giants are a laughing stock and they can’t get out of the you’re the Jets. You know, you were the Browns. I mean, you for any semblance of growth and continuity, um, which is important in the NFL, stability is important as much as you in a world where players are non-stop moving everything. The idea that you could hold on to a coach longer than three or four years is pretty, you know, important to do. Yeah. Um and the Giants even tried to do it with Dball, right? Like they tried to give it another year to say, “Okay, you know, let’s see if we can hold this thing together, make something happen.” Um and it just got to a point of of diminishing returns and critical mass where they said he had to go. Uh, so, you know, organizationally, philosophically, I support keeping the coach because you’re trying to build something, especially when you haven’t made the playoffs this long, like hitting another reset button means you likely won’t make the playoffs for two more years. Okay, here’s the other reason that I can unequivocally, and people will agree with me on this, um, in what world do you trust this this ownership group and front office people to make the right decision? Like how much worse could it get with Raheem staying? Like how I mean I guess theoretically somebody new could come in, but again you have toxic group think at the top of this organization. You have an owner and two yesmen who sit in the corner, three maybe depending on if we add them all up and never take a dissenting voice. They’re afraid to do something different. They don’t want anything new. They want to they want to do what they do. Like there is the vetting process for who they pick has proven to be a failure. So why uproot everything just to put a new guy in here? And I don’t exactly know that this coaching cycle has a lot of like names that you trust. Everybody’s screaming for McCarthy. Why? It’s not that I think Mike McCarthy is a bad coach, but if there are going to be four or five other jobs open, why does Mike McCarthy want this one? Why? Why would you want to take a job for a year where you have no quarterback? Yeah. No. Yeah. It’s not an appealing job at this. If Michael Penn was blowing up, right, and playing well, but they were still losing games and you decided, hey, we need get a new offensive coordinator in here. Maybe there’s a world maybe where if Mike McDaniel is officially let go, you could bring him back here and have him Allah under the, you know, Kyle Shanahan system, which is where Shawn McVey came from, which is where Zack Robinson came from, which is got similar concepts still that he could work with, right? Maybe that’s your OC. Uh I that I I wouldn’t hate that if Raheem stayed and McDaniels is the OC. Um, but again, like what I I understand people want a pound of flesh and they want Raheem gone. Like I understand the fans point and I’m not saying that point is necessarily wrong, but if you step back away from this emotionally for a minute and go, what are we really moving on to, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, you’re certainly not moving on to a proven commodity. The problem with the Falcons, okay, the problem with the Falcons is a culture problem. It is a culture problem at the highest levels. And oh, by the way, like the Falcons interviewed Mike Vrabel. Okay, now Mike Vrabel never got offered the job. For forget for a second, just look objectively what you see here in New England. Mike Rael walked in New England. Granted, he had a lot of clout there because he played there, but he walked in there. One, he has total control. Okay. Two, he does things his way and answers to nobody. Do you really think that Mike Vrabel, if he was ever offered a job, well, why did Vel take the video? Because you don’t say no to a job you haven’t been offered. That’s like adult speak for everybody out there. Never say no to a job you haven’t offered. If someone wants to sit down with you and talk to you about a job, even if you don’t need it, you sit down and talk about the job. You don’t say no until somebody offers you the job. So obviously you go and interview because when you’re out of work also like you interview for jobs because that’s what you do. Keep your name fresh in everybody’s mind as a viable candidate. But even if you there’s no way I don’t think there was a world where Mike Vel said yes to this. No because oh by the way after Arthur Smith was the former coach. Well and that’s Yeah. I mean like Arthur Smith was the former coach and it would Hey Art. Uh how was your experience? Yeah. Kind of sucked. Um, everybody above me like doesn’t listen to anything and they want to do things their way and you know, oh by the way, uh, didn’t care that I went seven and 10 with two of the worst quarterbacks in the last 15 years to take a snap in the NFL. Um, yeah, nobody cared about that. So like there’s no way he the culture is the issue and if you want to bring somebody in here who’s going to change the culture, the people picking won’t allow you to. So what what is the point to moving on like at this like objectively if you want somebody fired just for the sake of change for the sake of change. I get it. I like I understand it fans but I’d love somebody in the comments section to tell me what do you ultimately think somebody is going to change because the the problem isn’t really coaching. The problem is the culture. It is it is bad. And for a team that has had no identity since Mike Smith left, since he was fired and Mike at the time it was just like I could it run its course. But that was the last time this organization had any identity whatsoever was when Mike Smith was here. Dan Quinn had a little bit of an identity. They got a quick spurt or one good draft class and everything else and boom, you know, it all hit. But Fast and Physical and Brotherhood wore out pretty damn quick, didn’t it? That wasn’t an identity. So that wasn’t that that was his identity. It wasn’t a culture thing room like the good successful teams have their culture fixed. The Falcons do not. And the problem is is that the people who will pick the next guy to choose the culture, they will only pick the guy who gives the culture that they like, not anything else. So if you’re going to fire the coach, be prepared for more of the same. It’s the definition of insanity. Joe, I know I I talked to you about this on Monday when I was kind of looking into it. Uh, but and I’m I we talked about it on the show yesterday. It was kind of the the main po focus of the show was kind of addressing this culture issue and I talked about what the Lions did when they had this ownership shakeup. They didn’t just go out that owner didn’t just go out and try to, you know, get a get a consulting firm in, get the best top qualified coaches in, interview them, etc. She hired Chris Spielman who knew the culture, knew that city, knew what the fans wanted out of a football team and then started working from there to try to bring in the right personnel around them. And ultimately, they were laughed at for hiring Dan Campbell. Laughed at. And he and maybe even more so, not just by the name, but obviously after what he said in that press conference. And now when you when you go back, I think they went like three and 13. Yeah. Yeah. First year of Dan Camp. Yeah. And you know, one thing, one of the things that Spielman said, and I think it’s kind of I I think that this is very relevant for the Falcons because remember like at that time the Lions were the epitome of dysfunction and losing. They were Yeah, absolutely. A laughingtock in the NFL. And I remember one of the things I read about Spielman was that they wanted to make losing, you know, a learning experience obviously, but never to be afraid of it. And I just feel like that is exactly what this Falcons organization. They are so afraid of losing that it actually brings more of it upon afraid of their own shadow is the other part. They don’t like criticism. They’re they’re afraid to be talked about in a negative light and and you know they keep walking themselves into it. I will give you one name and I it would never happen. I don’t think it would ever happen but I will give you one name if you want to change the culture here. You’re sitting down. You are sitting down. Is everybody ready? I am. Deion Sanders. The guy already knows the organization. Now, let me finish before you knows the organization and changes culture everywhere he went. Changed it at Jackson State, changed it at Colorado would change the culture. However, comma, you know what we’ve realized about Deion Sanders? He’s not that good of a coach. You see, like when you took away all his talent at Colorado, guess what, right? Can’t coach. Right? Now, somebody say there is talent here. Okay, there is. But that’s the kind of guy that changes culture. Yeah. The city would lose their freaking mind if they ever did it. I mean, it would be it’d be wild. I mean, you know, Michael Baker, Deion Sanders came back to Atlanta would would make this city literally, you know, be burned to the ground again. Um, and and so, not in a bad way, but you know what I mean. So, yeah, he’s a guy who would change the culture, but one, I don’t think Dion ever wants to get into the NFL. That’s number one. Number two, again, I don’t think he’s actually a very good coach, but I don’t even think the Falcons need Spiel, like someone like Spielman to have Spielman’s role. But the point of it is that Spielman was brought in to touch every aspect of the Lions organization. There was no place in the organization that he was not allowed to go. He had basically the ultimate access to everybody. And there isn’t that like I I feel like the Falcons need that level of shakeup whether it’s one person or maybe a a group of people uh who know the city and this team you know very well. But that’s that’s really about you know the structure at the very top. That’s but again that’s the guy that would change the culture that comes to mind like Right. Right. I mean what what coordinator out there that you’re going to hire is going to change the culture? I I don’t I don’t necessarily know the answer to that exactly. I mean, you know, so you because this is typical Falcons, right? We go from Mike Smith, you know, older head coach, let’s go younger and they go brand new and they get uh defensive Dan Quinn. Oh, when we fire that guy, well, we can’t go defensive now. So, now we have to go offensive. And we had two first time head coaches the last two. So, that didn’t work. So the third time we got to go, you know, uh, experienced head coach or experienced coach and they went with Raheem because he knew the organization was a head coach once before. So what direction do you go next? Yeah. You go offensive and you go retread or do you go brand new? Like what coordinator out there do you want to get? Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. There’s not like a very high level coaching cycle right now where all these guys are available. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe maybe there’s a Dan Campbell out there. Like I just feel like they need like I feel like and I don’t have an actual answer to my own like kind of proposal here, but I just have this feeling like us Mike Smith, you know, like Mike Smith was not a a prestigious name when he was hired by the Falcons to be their head coach, but he was exactly what that team needed at the time. You want to give one more name? Sure. Yeah, let’s hear it. Todd Min, Georgia offensive guy, comes from a stable organization. That’s the other name that I think might get people excited, but again, first time head coach, right? So, do do we do we trust that he knows how to run an NFL organization? I don’t know the answer to that. Yeah. I mean, I know he’s been at a high level in other NFL organizations before, but obviously the Georgia Ties would would have the fan base. So, you know, but I think the most likely scenario, believe it or not, is that Terry stays and Raheem goes. So, this is where I I’ll I’ll hit Becky. I I just feel like with the trade that was made last year to trade away the first round pick, just from an optic standpoint, that feels to me like a non-starter going into the offseason because it’s going to be the only thing that he’s going to have to defend that over and over. Stuck your foot in your mouth by saying we don’t plan on drafting in the top 10. What a stupid thing to say. Like what a dumb thing to say. Like I mean the braggadociousness from a team that had been drafting in the top 10 for seven straight years. Like I mean hey man I give you credit for having a set of wavos to to throw it out there but dude if you’re going to talk that kind of yang you better back it up. Like you didn’t I mean that’s what the worst part of it is is that you got to live with that. You told us you don’t plan on drafting a top 10 again. Oh well. Oops. Oops. I mean, so you know, um, but in reality, the roster, which he helped construct theoretically with the help of Arthur Smith, um, two best players for Arthur Smith. Uh anyway, but um with that roster that he constructed, there’s an argument to say that he’s he’s I don’t know many GMs who keep their job after five years without making the playoffs, but I one I think the owner’s loyalty to people will keep him here, right? Yeah, for sure. Number two, guys, does it really matter who the GM is? Come on. Like, let’s be real about this. I said it the day that Arthur Smith was fired and they told us that respectfully Terry F. No, I mean I’m sure he, you know, picks players and everything else, but like he doesn’t do it. He’s a personnel guy for all intents and purposes. Mhm. Everything else gets run through the the upper ring, right? Like do do we really believe that he’s autonomously operating as the GM and just once a week goes into the owner’s office and gives an update of what’s going on or do we believe that you know this stuff only rolls downhill? I I mean I I I’ve felt for a while now that he’s a GM entitle only. I think we’ve known that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’ll be interesting. I hope we learn more about some of the uh the inner the details of the inner workings of this because it feels like it’s been a mystery with regards to Terry Fontau’s uh status basically like what exactly he what responsibilities he does have and what he doesn’t. As you can see, Mark got kicked out of the uh party there. I wonder if uh hopefully we aren’t being watched as we’re recording this and they had to kick they had to get Mark’s internet connection, but um we’ll leave it there. Thank you guys so much for uh listening to today’s episode of Joe Patrick on football. Uh you can watch us on 929 the games YouTube channel. If you’re doing that right now, please click like so we know you’re a real human person that is watching this and uh you’ll get more Falcons content for you. Uh let’s see. I don’t know why he’s back. I was actually just gonna sign off. I felt like that was that was that was a sign for us to go. But did you have anything else you wanted to say? Did you hear what I said? What was the last thing you heard? Yeah. Yeah. about Terry Fontnau and just kind of respectfully he’s a GM who get his nuts clipped and it’s that that do we really believe that that well it goes back to the culture thing. It’s like is the is the next GM going to have to deal with those same kinds of I mean so parameters I know people want change but it’s like I mean what are we changing to like I’ll say this now because I I I’ll say it in the room if they make a change at head coach or GM the only question to ask the owner when he’s standing there why should anybody believe you um the problem is you Mhm. The problem is you. Like if you ever stop to think that you are the problem, it’s not the previous four head coaches who who have all tried here and failed, it’s you. And and that’s just the reality of it. I don’t think there’s there’s enough data points to back that up than anything else. And the the the triumvirrant that sits up there uh and and runs things is the problem. And so I’m not necessarily advocating to keep these guys, but I’m also like I don’t believe that change necessarily fixes everything. Yeah. I I I think a lot of Falcons fans are feeling the same way. It’s like that’s why it’s kind of such a a pessimistic time right now is because there’s just not a lot of hope that it’s going to be any better this next goound. So sorry I dropped out. You’re all good. You’re all good. We’ll leave it there. Uh, I was I was I wasn’t being, you know, I thought you were just smiling at me like the whole way like, “Hey, good job.” You know, and so you weren’t moving. I’m like, “And I’m just going and I’m like halfway. I keep like asking I’m like, “What do you think?” And you’re like, “Not moving.” I’m like, “Okay, something happened.” Uh, I was just doing the prefuncter uh, you know, click like on the uh on the thing and comment on on the other thing. Yeah. Comments. I’d love to see people’s thoughts. I know you guys think I’m crazy for again, I’m not advocating keeping them, but I also right would like somebody to detail a plan for me of just give me give me three head coaches. It’s funny because people people Somebody put that on Twitter like a couple of weeks ago. I think I showed it to you when somebody’s like, you know, who would you want to be the next three coaches of the Falcons? And I said, uh, Joe Brady, Lane Kein, and of course, Arthur Smith. Arthur Smith. A lot would have to change for in order for that to happen. Oh my god. Imagine we need to be a for sale sign uh out Lowry branch first before brought back here. But I mean I guess Joe Brady would be a guy that I’d be interested in. But he’s also a guy who’s never been a head coach before. The thing I said the thing I said yesterday is like I I I just want someone it’s not going to be the most like appealing job, you know, just in terms of the the headwinds that you’re going to face when you come in here. But whoever it is, I want that in in some ways. It’s like uh it’s like a litmus test where it’s like I want someone who who is going to embrace that challenge, you know, who’s going to say like I want to be this team’s head coach. So, but like that like I’m I’m looking forward to turning this around and certainly they have to present those ideas on how they’re going to do that. Yeah. And also like for everybody screaming at McCarthy, like you think McCarthy is stupid, do you think objective? I mean, I know he wants to be a coach again, but if there are five or six openings that are going to come up like there are every year, Yeah. Is this the one he wants to choose above all else? I I don’t know the answer to that and I don’t necessarily know it’s yes. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so uh yeah, and uh I’ll just finish up my little prefuncter thing. Uh if you’re if you if you listen to us on podcast, just search Joe Patrick on football wherever you get your podcast and we’ll pop up and clever name by the way. Follow us from there. What’s that? Clever name for the show. Oh yeah, I know. Well, it passes legal, so you know, that’s that’s really the main thing. Oh, you you had legal problems. I just I I just I just joke that that’s Yeah. I don’t think we’re allowed to use like Falcon like any like Falcons branding or anything even though it’s clearly a Falcon show. So, it’s just uh just me talking football with you sometimes. You know, you’re you’re our first return guest. So, so look at that. I mean, boy, you a glutton for punishment and I think your audience probably I can’t My favorite part is you said I can’t wait to check the comments after this one. Yeah, the the Monday Make sure you send me a link. I’ll tweet it out. The the Monday uh tweets that I get. Go get them, Zeno. Go get them. Go get him. I know. I know. I’m not gonna, man. Like, we’re not gonna fight. Like, there’s like there’s people like typing in the Falcons comments like before the press conference even starts, you know, which is like the waiting room or whatever. Like, Zeno’s gonna get him today. Uh, how did I end up here? Oh, well. All right. Good stuff, man. Thank you. Appreciate it, man. Thank you everybody. Talk to you soon.

The season is an abject disaster, and it goes deeper than coaching. Joe Patrick and Mark Zinno dive into the real reason the Falcons are collapsing. Does the problem start with the organization? What about the doomed Kirk Cousins/Michael Penix Jr. decision? The guys break down the Raheem Morris situation, the Terry Fontenot control debate, and why firing the coach won’t fix the Falcons culture.

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