Should Cubs TRADE Moisés Ballesteros or Owen Caissie to improve 2026 team? | CHGO Cubs Podcast

Should Cubs TRADE Moisés Ballesteros or Owen Caissie to improve 2026 team? | CHGO Cubs Podcast

Go. Coming up next on the CHGO Cubs podcast presented by Toyota. The Cubs bullpen is a blank canvas. How would you fill it? Plus, it’s report card day. Speaking of that bullpen, what grade would you give Valencia and company? And is it time to trade one of the big prospects? Finally get it done? Good, better, best. Ballpark Foods CHGO comes next. [Music] Get down. [Music] [Music] Hey Chicago, what do you say? It’s the CHGO Cubs podcast driven by our friends at Toyota. Uh Luke Stuckmar, Joey Chrisopoulos with you on Thursday the 20th. Thanksgiving creeping closer and closer by the moment. I’m remote. Joey’s in studio C for Cubs. The new look studio officially. Officially there Sean Anderson is screaming from his studio which we our office which we can now hear. It’s a studio west. I mean that’s what they’re saying now. That’s what that’s what the losers call it. It’s studio Cubs. Studio Cubs. Studio C for Cubs. It’s great. It’s awesome. I I honestly I don’t know where my ey line is, so I’m going to do the best I can, but uh the seat’s super comfortable and the lighting is great and it’s a great new addition to CHGO. You’re so You got Ernie over one shoulder and Dicka over the other shoulder. What else could somebody want? You know, Harry above him, too. That’s right. The bottom of Harry’s lip. Yeah. Harry’s resting his chin right on top of your head, Joey. It’s perfect the way it is. Um, we’re we’re going to talk Cubs baseball. There’s a lot to talk about. We’re going to continue our report cards with the bullpen and specifically Daniel Palencia. And then we’ve been told over and over and you can just look at it now. The bullpen is a blank canvas. Yes, the Cubs have money to spend. They’re going to have to fill out that bullpen. They’re going to have to build it for what, the third time in 12 months because they had to flip it halfway through the season. And then we’re going to talk about whether or not they should trade some guys. I did want to start though, Joey. I first I wanted to start with the ballpark food. Ballpark food. But I decided, all right, we’ll save that to the end. Okay. Because it’s too close to lunchtime and I don’t want to be hungry the whole show. No drooling on the show. And I can’t Studio West. We just opened up Studio West. I can’t drool here. friend of the show, George Offman, put out on Twitter uh the other day that he was told the Cubs were stunned that uh they picked up the they got the qualifying offer and and and our guy was like, “All right, sure. I’ll do it. 22 million. I’ll I’ll take it.” Right. And and so I don’t First of all, what do you make of that? Because I have a take on this. Uh, well, let me start off by saying first, like I’m friends with George Offman. He’s been incredibly generous to me over the years. Like, we’ve had together. Really great guy. And the dude has been in the business for decades and decades and decades. So, I do not doubt for one second that the people that he’s talking to are legit within the Cubs organization. Having said that, uh I am probably more stunned and shocked at the concept that the Cubs front office and Jed Hoyer feel the same way that Cubs fans do that that I think we thought we were we were saying our goodbyes to show to Emmanaga. It was a great ride. Thanks for the commercials. Thanks for the all-stars. Thanks for everything. No way he’s taking this $22 million qualifying offer. I I I’m I’m just struggling and I just think it’s it’s a it’s a choice of of wordage, right? And maybe that was the word that he got and the word that he used in the tweet, but I think that there are gradient levels to the adjective of the word stunned and shocked because I would be stunned and shocked if the Chicago Cubs made a $22 million gamble and thinking that, oh, don’t worry about it. It’s fine. No big deal. No way he picks that up and then he goes ahead and picks it up. They had to have some sort of thought process that they that this might might be earmarked for the payroll next year. What do you think, Luke? Yeah, I mean, if if Bruce Levine is saying before it’s even made the qualifying offer, like, well, he could go to Japan and I wouldn’t be surprised. I thought he was coming back. I’m not surprised. So, if the Cubs are surprised, that’s super surprising. But I I believe what George is saying. I just don’t know if George is saying there were some people in the Cubs that were surprised. Well, I mean, that’s that’s a that’s a big group. That’s a that’s a broad brush. There’s a lot of people that work for the Cubs that would be surprised. Maybe ask him. He didn’t specifically say Jed Hoyer was stunned. Like if he would have said Jed Hoyer was stunned or Carter Hawkins was stunned, um I would have been then I’d be looking at this going, “What?” Yeah. You didn’t think you offered him 22 million. You didn’t think he could take it. Again, like I’m happy he took the 22 million. I think it’s a little bit more than he probably deserves for one season, but it’s a one-year deal and you you just have to start stockpiling some of these starters. So, I don’t think it’s a bad thing. I’m I would be shocked. I would be stunned. Yes. If Jed Hoyer, Carter Hawkins, and Tom Ricketts were like, “Well, didn’t see that one coming. Now we can’t do anything.” Because that’s really the even if even if they were shocked, Joey, the thing that follows with that then is well now they’re not going to do anything because they were surprised he took it. That’s what we’re all thinking because that’s the way we’ve been trained. Right. Right. And I think what I I’m mildly surprised about and honestly since we started talking about this, Luke, I think you’ve had a pretty good finger on the pulse of this the entire time where you were the first person that I said and read that said I just don’t think I they just want to rip up the deal from the Cubs perspective. Yeah. Um they didn’t like the no trade. They didn’t like the $57 million. They like showed up, but just not on the terms and structure that the remaining deal had with all the club options and and everything else that they wanted to do. So, I understand why they declined the team option. Understand why SHA declined the club option. Understand why they extended the qualifying offer because I wanted to believe that they maybe would have brought Shota back on a 2-year $30 million deal with incentives that could raise up to maybe 36 or $ 38 million depending on how they wanted to structure it. And I and I wouldn’t have been shocked if Shodto was going to be in a Cubs uniform in 2026. And now that he is, the other part about it is you just have to you just have to be a little careful that the Cubs were stunned that they now don’t have $22 million to spend on their payroll. It further plants the seeds and continues to push the narrative that there isn’t as much money as Cubs fans would like to think. And prepare yourselves for more middle of the road type signings. You can’t tell me that they didn’t think about this ahead of time. that the 22 million might go onto the books and they still might have to make some heavy lifting moves to improve their pitching staff and replace Kyle Tucker. You can’t tell me those two things at the same time that now we didn’t see this coming so now it isn’t our fault that we can’t do X Y and Z. That’s right. That’s right. It reeks of if in fact the head guys were actually stunned, it reeks of buffoonery. That’s what it reeks of like like what and they’re not they’re not smarter than that. And they they aren’t those guys. They’re both very very intelligent. whether you like all the moves they’ve made or not, they’re two very intelligent guys. So, yeah, the next side of it would be us looking at it saying, is this uh the Cubs saying this to George so that now the word gets spread out there like they don’t have as much money as they thought. Don’t be mad if there’s not a lot of deals because this is what this is what happened. Like in reality, is this better? Is 22 million for one year better than three years at 57 million? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. The Cubs played it right. It’s it’s better than what the the player option was for Shota. And you know, like Okay. The other thing I like about it is it’s one year, right? And the one-year part of it is if they’re going to go get somebody else, which we all assume and pray and hope that they are, whether that’s in free agency or that’s via trade, very likely one of those deals or tra or trades will come with a multi-year contract. Okay? And so if the Cubs are saying we have to have as few we don’t want almost any multi-year deals on our hands that aren’t like super costcontrolled going into this work stoppage. Well, they just took one off the books. So now you can afford to do one in free agency or now you can afford to do one in a trade where a guy has multiple years. Would you rather have Dylan Cease on a multi-year deal or Shota on a multi-year deal? Would you rather have McKenzie Gore on a multi-year deal? Would you know, go down the line? Go down the line of players that they could try and get one way or another. Yes. I would almost always say yes. I’d rather have that because you know what? All said and done, you could always get Shota back on another one year or two year after the work stoppage thing if that’s what you want to do. Right. And you know, Gary Ross in the chat here says that the front office was split on showmanaga, which is fine. I think the people that didn’t want Shodto to come back, I I I’m hoping that they weren’t stunned and shocked that he picked up the $22 million because you need to be on the same page. You need to have that type of communication. My question is at $22 million for one year now for SHO coming back. I I’m having a hard time envisioning what kind of season he would have to have this coming year that would keep the relationship with him and the Cubs going beyond this year. If he pitches great and he’s an all-star, he will still be 33 years old going on 34 after that year. It kind of takes us out of the the ball game like we were talking about. It kind of takes us out of it for multi-year deals to bring Shota back at whatever the number is. And if he pitches in the middle or if he pitches closer to how he looked in September, then that also decreases the likelihood that he would come back and play on the Cubs. But I feel like I it was either yesterday or the show before that where we started talking about and I’m starting to feel like this could be a theme of the off season and there will be more moves and hopefully there will be new faces that will be with the Cubs beyond 2026 but show Emanaga is becoming one of those guys that is entering a walk here on the Chicago Cubs. important pieces that we need to produce and either be part of the middle of the lineup or eat up 150 160 170 innings for the Cubs this year. There are a lot of guys on prove it deals and and you’re right there’s going to be heavy turnover with this Cubs roster after next year. So, one, it’s great opportunity to lock up some high-end talent on the pitching or the hitting side on multi-year deals. So, you have a core and a framework to go with Bush and PCA and Horton and Shaw and hopefully a couple others and maybe some guys we’ll talk about on the other side of the break, but there are a lot of guys, Luke, that are playing for their next contract next year. And I’m wondering if that’s slowly becoming a theme of what this Cubs team is going to look like next year. Yeah, not and you’re right. It’s not just show and the show part of it. Is it likely that this is just one more year in a Cubs uniform? Yes. but we didn’t necessarily know if he was going to be here even this year. So, let’s just let’s just hold on and see if Jackson Wiggins is on the team. Let’s see if Jackson Wiggins develops. Let’s see how Kate Horton pitches this season. Let’s see if Justin Steel can bounce back this year. Like, there are so many whatifs even on just the team now, let alone what might be available with a new collective bargaining agreement and what the rules might be for teams. like it might be a totally different ballgame when we get past that likely work stoppage. So, let’s let’s wait and see. But it also we got to wait and see how guys develop and bounce back this year before we just say, “Oh, he’s he’s gone. It’s only one year.” I don’t know. What if what if he ends up being their best pitcher next year? Yeah. What if Soda comes back and gets back to that two and a half erra and all of a sudden that splitter is splitting again and all of a sudden maybe he’s got another what.5 on the fast ball and he’s locating it up in the zone and he becomes the pitcher that that you know there was a point last year where a lot of Cubs fans and us included were asking ourselves is Shota Imanaga a game one or game two starter in a playoff series. He has been an opening day starter for us or at least in the top two in the last two years on some competitive teams. Um I understand that we’re the we’re riding the wave and and the downfall of the playoffs against the Brewers really stung and it really hurt and it kind of emphasizes and accentuates players that didn’t perform. But still, Sha Emmanaga is a quality pitcher. And you’re right, he could totally bounce back next year and we could be having a different conversation of how do we you can’t let him go. Only 22 million. What a steal, Luke. What a steal. Um, we got to take a break here on the CHO Cubs podcast. On the other side of the break, we still have to talk about now that CHO is signed and we’re talking money and we’re talking dollars. Is it maybe Moaller or Owen Casey? Could they possibly be trade candidates to bring in that influx of high-end pitching? And also, we got to give out our grades for the bullpen. But first, a message from all of our wonderful sponsors here on CHO Cubs presented by Toyota. All right, Toyota thon is on. Get your Toyota while the getting’s good. Score value on the versatile RAV 4, America’s number one selling vehicle. Ride with Tacoma, the rugged weekend warrior, or hit the road with Camry’s available all-wheel drive. Redot savings are here and ready for you at Toyota thon. Visit your Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let’s go places. What a time it is to be a CHTO dieard. This is it. Upgrade your fandom today. Get access to our exclusive written content, a free t-shirt, plenty of discounts on future merch and events. Sale coming soon, plus access to our exclusive CHGO Discord lounge where we all hang out. Go to all CHGO for the latest information and join the thousands of dieards already in our community. We’re just waiting for you. And Luke, we want to talk about if you want to upgrade your headgear, your hatwear, nothing better than branded bills.com. 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And trust me, these hats are perfect on the golf course. They’re perfect with hanging out, and they’re perfect for your favorite Big 10 team. Branded bills.com. Back on the Chgo Cubs podcast presented by our friends at Toyota, we are going to talk about the Cubs bullpen, Daniel Palencia. We got report cards coming. We’re talking ballpark food. But first, let’s talk prospects for a second. It is our taking the temp segment. your trusted local experts. Four Seasons Heating, Air Conditioning, Plumbing, and Electric. Visit fourseasonsheatingcooling.com for all their special offers and money-saving coupons. That’s four seasonasons heatingcooling.com. We do think that the Cubs will make some sort of splashy trade this off season. Is that fair to say, Joey? You think there will be a splashy trade? Maybe not as splashy as Kyle Tucker for one year and trading a first round pick like Cam Smith, but isn’t it time that we move some of these guys? I keep saying I worry that the Cubs hold on to prospects too long. Prospects are prospects. You can lose some of them. Jackson Ferris might hurt someday down the road. Cam Smith might hurt someday down the road, but you waited a long time on Brennan Davis. you got nothing for him, right? Like I He’s the example I always use. The guys that go through the list and you’re like, “Well, if you would have dealt Adelai five years ago, the Hall would have been pretty decent. He was your top pitching prospect.” But then injuries came along and and so you look at guys and I saw that um Baseball America put out their top 10 list right couple days ago like of of the top 10 prospects. Bayisteros is up to number one. Mo Baller is the number one prospect in the Cubs. You have to go all the way down to find Kevin Alcantra at number seven. So there’s a guy already and I I keep wondering, have they held the card too long? Have they been waiting too long for him to develop and held that card maybe just a hair too long? I don’t know. Yeah. And is he more of, you know, to stir the echoes of a previous player’s name, is he more like an Alexander Canario who to this point seems to be a little bit more of that 4A player, a guy who produces in the minor leagues? You bring him up and then you you can have the debate and the question of is he always been given the true run or the true complement of at bats to figure out who he is and who he isn’t. Um, I’m not surprised about Moaller being the number one prospect in the system. I personally am much higher on Moises Bisteros than Owen Casey at this particular time. And and it’s tough too, right? Where there’s two schools of thought of this, right? Like first, my first priority is, and we’ve said it on this show, the easiest way for the Chicago Cubs to get better next year is to just spend money because they have it and they will make more of it and they will have more of it for years and years to come. um because we us as Cubs fans are so supportive and loyal and will pay for marquee and go to the games and all the merch and all that good stuff. That is my preference. But if we’re starting as the days continue to pass by and you’re you’re reading every single article and you’re trying to find out are the Cubs in on this player, are they in on any player and you’re not really seeing them connected to anybody and you’re hoping maybe secretly they’re doing their stuff in the shadows and and through, you know, the the middle of the night. if that doesn’t come to fruition. Now, the next part is going out in the trade market and picking off now the top 10 in the Cub system. I don’t think they have a very deep farm system, but I do think they have some guys at the top that I think are attractive to certain teams and teams that be willing to roll the dice on an Owen Casey and say we can move on from a player that we’ve had for a while that we’re not going to sign long term. We could trade him to the Cubs, take on Owen Casey, and see what happens. The only part that scares me, Luke, is the end result. The door number three of this is the Cubs saying to themselves, we’re going to try and give Mo Baller and Owen Casey, try and have them combine for 600 something at bats between DH maybe the 100 at bats when Seiya doesn’t play in right field. Maybe you play Owen Casey a little bit in left field and see how it happens. I have been very emboldened and optimistic that I’ve read things that they are going to try and give Moises Bisteros every opportunity to at least be able to try to cover 20 to 30 games behind the plate next year. I think that’s great news. In terms of who I would try and deal right now, I think Owen Casey would be the centerpiece for me because I I do I am intrigued and I do want to see a little bit more from Moaller. If he can play a little catcher, if he can spell you every once in a while at first base and not just be a DH with that hitting profile, I’m really intrigued. And I think that will up his value if you wanted to move him in a future deal. Owen Casey, I think it’s time for him to find out whether he is or whether he isn’t. Is he Gavin Sheets or is he maybe a guy that can be an everyday regular for you or is he a rotational outfielder? That would be maybe the trade piece that I would pick. Out of those two, which one would you be leaning? Uh, I I can’t I just haven’t seen enough of either guy. Like the thing that concerns me about Bayisteros is exactly what you said. His position is DH until until he shows me he can play catcher some. He’s a DH and maybe a catcher. And when I hear teams say we’re going to give him maybe 20 game, you know, maybe we’ll see him 20 games behind the plate and you’ll see him at at the Cactus League. The the the skeptic in me says, now is that something they’re floating out there? So, another team that they’re trying to trade him to says, “Oh, well, he is a potential catcher. We could work on that.” Don’t think he’s not just a DH because look, even the Cubs are thinking, “Man, this guy could be a catcher. They’re going they might play him 20 games.” So, is that like a little floater that’s been out there or is he actually someone they trust behind the plate when their team is built on defense and pitching for the most part, right? So, but then, you know, Baseball America says this is a guy that’s going to compete for batting titles and he’s he’s the most ready guy. He’s the best hitter in the organization. That’s the guy. Did I like the at bats some of the at bats I saw from him? Yes. But I also like some of the at bats I saw from Owen Casey at the big league level this year. So I don’t know. It’s one it’s 1A or 1B. I mean I lean Casey only because Casey looked better in the outfield than I thought he was going to look in the outfield. And so that allowed me to say well they could put him in left, they could put him in right, they could put him at DH. Uh so he at least has a position and that makes him a little more valuable to me. But the bottom line is who’s really going to be the guy who’s going to provide you something special on offense? Whether that’s Bayister Steros being just the best contact guy and is is he does he have the power? Now, we haven’t heard that he has the power that Owen Casey does and that plays. So obviously if I had to trade one of the three for me right now it would be Alcantra but that’s not the way that’s not the way teams look at it. The Astros didn’t say we want your 17th best prospect or or prospect. They pick out the guy they want and then they try to get you to move off of that if you’re going to move off of it. And so somebody might say, “We’re not doing that deal unless we get this guy.” And then you have to decide whether or not McKenzie Gore or somebody else is worth trading a guy who looks to be a great hitter in the major leagues but might not have a position or a guy that looks to have serious power from the left side, which is hard to find. Right. I I hear what you’re saying. Yeah. Well, I just with the Kevin Elcontra thing, I I would be interested in that too as well. I don’t know if you’re going to make Kevin Elcontra a centerpiece of a McKenzie Gore trade. Now, I saw it floated out there from a couple different places of could you create a package of Kevin Okantra and maybe something else if you wanted to talk to the Kansas City Royals about Chris Bubich. Now, it won’t just take Alcantra, it’ll take multiple pieces. And I don’t think Chris Bubich is the number one starter, but I I I like him a lot. I think he could give you really solid number two, number three for you next year. Um, and that can maybe get you excited a little bit. The thing, and here’s what’s funny is that with Moaler and Om Casey, they’re just they’re two different they’re just two different profiles of hitters, right? Where Moises Baseros, I like him with a higher ceiling of what he can have potentially on a consistent offensive basis as more of a line drive guy, but you’re right, doesn’t really have the power. And does he profile strictly at DH with his offensive skill set? I don’t think so. And if you’re building a Cubs team that is going to be centered around speed and defense, you do have a little pop right, but a lot of them are 20-ish home run guys. Are you really injecting your lineup with enough thump to really compete and get that big bomb when you need it? Now, on the other side, that’s what Owen Casey provides. My problem with my thing with Owen Casey though, my con with Owen Casey is that I do think that he probably needs a full year of the bumps and bruises and roller coaster up and down every young player goes through that we saw Miguela, Pico Armstrong, and even last year Matt Shaw go through. I think Owen Casey deserves that shot. My question is, does he deserve that shot on a 92- win Cubs team that won around in the playoffs that got to the divisional series, was maybe a pitcher or two short from, let’s just say, contending and maybe beating the Milwaukee Brewers in game five and making it to the final four. Do we really have is the timing matching up to just chuck 450 at bats at Owen Casey and say, “Go get it, kid. You’re going to hit about 220 with maybe some bombs and we’re going to develop you and we’ll be better off for it.” But does that fit the timing of what this Cubs team has, especially again with all these walk-year veterans on these prove it deals in this core that they’ve created? Um, that’s the paradox right now with Owen Casey, which is why I lean more towards maybe trying to extract and optimize the value of him in a trade than maybe just chucking him out there and giving him those 450. Yeah. And if he’s going to go out there, it’s not just what you’re saying like he’s got it’s a pro year and he’s going to go through the lumps. It’s how many guys they already have that are in similar situations. Like if he was the only guy and you were set at all of these other spots, you would say, “Well, that’s fine.” But you’re not sure what Shaw is going to be next year. You’re not even sure what PCA is going to be next year. I’m I’m sure that Michael Bush is going to be right. Yeah. Like there’s there’s a lot of question marks. How many question marks do you want to put on a team that won 92 games last year and should should finally win the freaking division next year? like h how many of those guys can you have on it? Yes, it might be better for the long-term future, but hopefully you’re stockpiling enough young players that are good enough now that you’re not worried about losing just one prospect. And and I think the Cam Smith thing pointed to that, that they think they have a farm system that’s good enough now that’s going to continue to build that. But maybe this off seasonason will really show us whether or not they believe that. Maybe Cam Smith was just a one-off. If they do it again, then I think we’ll see that they start to believe in what they’re building from the farm and the grassroots up. Yeah. And I think the mo just really quick with the Cubs system like the top the top reflects I think the success that they’ve had in drafts, right? I think the Chicago Cubs and their drafts in the first round are synonymous with success. We there’s a laundry list over the last 10 years of first round picks that not only have hit but have been complete utter home runs, right? Total fireworks. I think the MO on the Cub system and it reflects throughout the rest of the prospect ranking is that I in the middle rounds whatever it is whether it’s a philosophy um whether it is uh a model of their own scouting they just don’t seem to hit and develop in those later rounds or unearth those gems um when maybe people are looking the other way and they see talent that probably the Milwaukee Brewers do a great job at and then they find these unknown names and at least develop them into pieces. I’m not saying every prospect becomes a superstar, but you can’t find a sixth or seventh inning guy from a dude drafted maybe in the 17th or 18th round. I I you don’t hear those stories enough with the Cubs and and some of the guys, you know, the Christian Hernandezes have have stalled a little bit. Like I do like Jefferson Rojos a lot. Like for those of you not familiar with Jeff Jefferson Rojos, I believe he’s still only 20 years old, but he’s already at AAA. He has a really interesting hit profile offensively, but the book on him is he can’t play shortstop and they don’t know whether he can transfer to second base and third base. He has a lot of questions defensively. So, there’s some incomplete prospect pieces there. And look, we’ll see with Ethan Conrad, right? Like, let’s give him some time. But this is something that again, if your system isn’t as healthy as you think it is, maybe you like it on the top end, but it’s not as healthy in the middle and in the solid area, then that’s why I start saying you have to sometimes spend some money while you’re working on this part of your game over here, right? You it’s it’s one or the other. You have to have success one way or the other. If your farm system is great, don’t spend money. If your farm system isn’t that great, you’re probably going to have to spend some money to plug some holes on your roster. We got to take a break here on the CHO Cubs podcast. Only one more break, folks. When we come back, finish this conversation. We’re also going to hand out our grades for the bullpen. What grade would you have for Daniel Palencia this season and the bullpen in general, we’re going to hit that. Also talk ballpark food on the other side of the break right here on the CHO Cubs podcast presented by Toyota. Hey Cubs fans, there’s a brand new refreshing way to have a great time. It’s Senorita THC Margarita. I did the best I could. It’s rewriting the rules of happy hour. And this is why. It’s crafted by wine industry experts. And they blend real fruit juice, organic Mexican agave, and a hint of that little pink salt for award-winning taste. 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I wouldn’t be surprised if two of the three are actually not on the team when we get to spring training, but there’s a couple more things I want to hit in this before we get to the report cards. Yeah. One is Greg Hus knows a lot. He watches a lot of prospects. He watches them before us. He’s a friend of the show. He said, “Hey, all in the same day, you had Morell Canario and Luis Vasquez all DFAD.” Okay. lot of a lot of people wanted to never trade any of those guys like just can’t do it. And and and that leads me to what my friend Stacy King always says. If you’re scared, go buy a dog. You got to finally make some moves, Cubs. I’d prefer you spend it with the pocketbook that you have and you can afford to go do it. But don’t don’t hang on the prospects too long. If you find one that you know can get you a proven major league player that will definitely make the Cubs better for not only next year but the years beyond, then you better go do it because that’s known currency. And known currency is what we’re looking for on this because we already have guys at positions that we’re not so sure about. So, let’s just I’m I’m curious which guy it’s going to be. I hope they pick the right players. I really do. But just don’t hold on to everybody too long. I’m not not saying trade Moaler. I’m not saying trade Casey. I’m not saying trade Jackson Wiggins. I’m just saying use what you have along with the money and make this team the division winner next year. I don’t care how you do it. I really don’t. But don’t be afraid either way. Don’t be afraid. You’re the Cubs. Well, right. And the happy medium of all this is if you look if you look at the 67 of all this some of these trade candidates that we’re talking when we’re talking about the starting pitching have years of control left at really good financial numbers that would make in my opinion probably the Cubs ownership smile and that’s the cost of doing business is probably moving on from one of these prospects and I get it and we’re we’re all Cubs fans, right? We’re all in this together, but I’m more on the side of I don’t understand why a Cubs cubs fan can say I hate Ian Hap while also at the same time saying we got to play Owen Casey. That just doesn’t that just doesn’t mesh to me, right? Like I get it. The cup of coffee was fairly intriguing, but it wasn’t something that necessarily jumped off the page. And it’s not fair to the player because they need more time. But again, with these pieces right here and the decisions that you have to make, maybe that can and look, here’s the other part about it, too. When we talk about the prospect system, you know, every time we say Jackson Wiggins on the show, someone should take a drink. anyone throwing out any other pitching prospects in the Cubs system right now of like, oh, when this guy shows up, oh, hold on, they’re developing this dude right now. Like, not hearing any of that right now. So, when we talk about this glut of outfielders or these glut of bats and left-handed bats when we’re talking about Moises Basters and Owen Casey, yeah, maybe Cubs fans need to start wrapping their head around pulling from one of those guys to try and bring in some of that pitching that seems to be dearly missed right now in the Cubs system. I I’m I’m with you. I think it’s time. Uh speaking of pitching, Mr. Chrisopoulos, let’s get to this bullpen because it is a Blake Canvas. They have almost no It’s like Daniel Palencia is back next year and Porter Hodgej is back next year and I don’t know who else. I don’t I don’t know who else. Like every everybody’s a free agent, right? So, do you want to start with the Palencia grade or you want to jump in on the what we think of the bullpen? I I want to I want to just really quickly um very kindly put you on the spot and ask you, can you name how many how many relief pitchers made an appearance for the Cubs year? No, it’s a I’ll tell you it’s a classic Chicago number. Ah, think of the 83. Is it 83? You got the second number correct, but think of another 23. 23 pitchers made a relief appearance for the Chicago Cubs. So, when we dive into this, it will be a bit of the collection of its parts, right? Like shout out like the Luke Littleles and the Gavin Hollowells and the Ethan Roberts and the Cosg Groves of the world. Uh Julian Merryweather. Uh we loved you. We loved you and you’re gone, right? So I think we should start with Daniel Palencia and we’ll move over to that, you know, the clown, not the clown car, but you know what I mean? That that big group of guys that had to come together and get some outs for the Chicago Cubs. Um, for Daniel Palencia, for me, I honestly don’t know how I can’t go anywhere else but A minus. Um, I will tell you why I’m not doing an A or an A+ because, and you talked about this and I think you were on to something again to give you more credit with the Daniel Palencia, him being injured and him walking him walking off the mound and holding his shoulder and his arm and and and me in my head, I’m taking it literally and I’m going, “Well, there goes his season. Time to move on. Not happening.” and a week later he’s throwing a bullpen and then he’s in uh then he goes to Triple A and then he pitches and then all of a sudden he’s back on the team throwing in the sixth or seventh inning. Something happened there whether it was confidence or maybe he was running out of gas or anything. That’s the only thing holding me back from an A+. But how can you not give him an A minus like Luke? He came absolutely out of nowhere throwing gas this time with control. closed 20 plus games for us this year and one of the few guys that when we get into the rest of this bullpen, is he the only guy right now that you have at least in pencil written down for the Cubs bullpen next year because he’s probably my lone guy. Uh, no. Porter Hodgej is still on there for me. I I I still believe in Porter Hodgej. Yeah. Um, I gave Palencia a B and that’s maybe a little negative because of what he did. Like he he was great. I think personally that Craig Council kind of poked him when he got hurt and said, “Well, you’re not necessarily a closer when you come back. Look, we got Keller here. He’s he’s doing his thing. We got Kitridge. You’re maybe not necessarily.” And and then he was still really really good. Now, was there were there games where I had a lot of angst going on while I was watching Daniel Palency? Yeah, it’s it’s not it’s not uh you know, Ener Sandman. He doesn’t come in and it’s just over. But he is a tale of what we just talked about the the flip side of it where I say don’t hold on to the prospects too long. Here’s a prospect the Cubs have been very patient with. They let they actually put them out there. They had the little mustard seed. They watered it each day. It grew some days. It didn’t grow other days. Then it grew again. Then they tried something else. Then they put a little fertilizer over there and they watered it again. and all of a sudden they potentially have themselves a real closer, the hardest throwing guy on the team. So again, a B is not a bad grade for me. A B is something I strived for in schools. I just want to give Valencia a little room to grow in that role again next year. Take away a little bit of the anxiety from me, okay? And and go ahead and be that guy on a consistent basis and then I’ll put him in with the A’s. But I’m still comparing him to the best closers in baseball, right? So on the Cubs team, he’s an A. On the Cubs team and the bullpen compared to maybe the very best guys when you see Mason Miller out there and like did he perform with him in in the playoffs? We’ll get to that in a second. Yeah, but there are other guys around baseball where you still would say I’m not taking Valencia before I take that guy. I still wake up in the middle of the night just in a cold sweat thinking about Mason Miller’s 104.5. Yeah. On the outside black uh striking out Carson Kelly. I still I I think about that p that pitch is burned into my mind. So I I agree with you. Maybe he’s not quite on that level. But when we talk about the broader issues and the aspects of Jed Hoyer constructing the bullpen on a year in and yearout basis, um, very much a turn style, a revolving door, and a cast of characters that changes every year. It’s an anthology series really. I don’t know how much credit he necessarily deserves for Daniel Palencia because he was already in the system. And I give a lot of credit to Daniel Palencia. Um, when we talk about a guy that has high octane velocity and people in the chat calling him Gasolina, great nickname, and lacks control, I’ll go back to what I said on a couple post games of my just what I saw from him is this guy’s coming along and developing and maturing is you’ll see it with a pitcher all the time. Maybe he’ll strike out a guy and then next thing you know, he walks a guy on four pitches. What comes after that? A two and0 count. Here comes the bound visit. Here comes the catcher. let’s reset the pitcher. Let’s see where he’s at. In many ways, that can be a turning point for young pitchers of whether you’re gonna make it or whether you just don’t have the stuff to stick around. And maybe it’s mental, maybe it is physical and resetting in your delivery. And I would see on consistent basis, Daniel Palencia in those moments would come back, find a slider for a strike, find the zone, rebound within the sequence of an at bat in an inning, and get out of it and get through it. Right. We’ve we saw Hector fall apart, right? We saw what happened to Ryan Presley early on in the year. And I think for a young player, hopefully that’s very instructive for a very positive future. My question for you is, as it stands right now, do you think the Cubs are penciling in Daniel Palencia as their closer for next year? Yes, I do. You You do. You don’t think that they you don’t so you’re not buying like a um a Fairbanks from Tampa or anything along those lines and making Daniel Plenty an eighth inning guy? No, I think I think the need for a starter and a bat is more important than their need for a closer at the moment. And all you have to do and this won’t make Godfather happy. Like all you have to do is go back and look at last year’s bullpen. We’re giving the grades on pre- deadline, post deadline. And the reason we’re the reason we’re not doing regular season playoffs is because the difference between the two is so they had two completely different bullpens. Completely different bullpens. They remade the thing throughout the season by picking up guys off the scrap heap. F you find Pomeran’s in a deal. You you got Keller there was I did you even think Keller was going to be on the team when when he was signed in this minor league deal. Nobody was like, “Oh, all right. Yeah, Keller, he’s a he’s going to definitely make the team.” They didn’t know. They were pitching him in like the fifth inning. They They weren’t lining him up for the final nine outs. They didn’t know. He pitched his way into that role. They’ll they will think they can find that guy again next year. So, the one thing we’re talking about, okay, what’s what’s a given? What’s certainty? Well, I think Palencia is the certainty in the bullpen. And the next closest thing might be Hajj. Like I think they believe in Porter Hodgej. It was a bit of a roller coaster uh for him this year, but I think that they believe he can be somewhere in that bullpen. I think if you’re looking blank canvas though, the name that could slide in and maybe go past him in the closer role, depending on how things roll out, because we didn’t expect color. What if Ben Brown turns out to be a perfect fit in the bullpen? I like it. Okay. I like it. So, I’m not going to say Valencia is 100% their closer, but I think they’re going in next year saying he is our closer. Okay. And if that changes, so be it. Just like last season that they they had a veteran that they thought was going to be their closer, but I think they also thought that could change mid-season and it did. So, I think that’s kind of the approach the Cubs have taken with bullpen and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s how it continues. Yeah, I I’m intrigued by Ben Brown in the bullpen. I’m intrigued by guys that can maybe give you more than three outs at a time. Not saying everyone’s going to be able to do that. Um, and they have some serious work to do. Obviously, we mentioned and and and number checked the 23 relief pitchers that were used by the Cubs last year. You know, when you look at Brad Keller, Caleb Thebar, Daniel Palencia, and Drew Pomearance, those are only four guys that made over 50 appearances for the Cubs bullpen last year. Andrew Kitrich made 23 in only two months. So he probably would have been on that list too as well. As it stands right now, Palencia maybe is the only guy that comes back from that list. You know, Kitrich isn’t. Pomeran’s I maybe would put in a close second of a guy that could come back. Thebar is 37. I I doubt that. And it feels like if you’re reading the tea leaves of rumors right now, Brad Keller might be pricing himself out not only in dollars but by years. And there’s even teams talking about making him a starter again. So I which I don’t you got to replace all those guys. Yeah. I I hope the Cubs aren’t thinking that’s the starter they’re adding and fallback plan is Brad Keller is you know oh he’s he’s the starter we’re going to bring back in free agency and go back too many innings last year. Like I love what he did but if you can get him back you know more expensive than he was last year but it put him in the bullpen there’s uncertainty attached to it but I’d feel okay with it. I do think he’s going to price himself out here. Give me my Here’s my names. I I’m just This is just off the cuff. Palencia is in the bullpen. Haj is in the bullpen. Ben Brown is in the bullpen. I think Assad will be in the bullpen. I hope that Colin Ray is actually part of the bullpen. I’d be fine if I’d be fine if uh uh Colin Ray, did I mention Colin Ray? You mentioned com um and and the one from the outside. Sean, you tell me. Isn’t Copek a free agent? Michael Copek is a free agent. Um obviously injury ridd. I don’t think the Dodgers I don’t think the Dodgers will keep him because what the Dodgers do every year is just take the best relievers that are on the market and take them. And I don’t know that Copek necessarily fits in there, but he does fit the profile of a guy that throws harder. And the Cubs could look at him and say, “We can get that for a low deal.” and we can get gas out of him. And if we let him do this, he might fill that role for us. He’s the He’s the type of guy that I could see the Cubs looking at and saying, “Let’s add him to the bullpen mix and see.” But he he’s similar to Ben Brown. I don’t know if he’s perfect, but one of them might work. I would I would really probably compare Michael Copek to a probably high-end car. I guess I shouldn’t throw out a brand in case we somehow get a high-end luxury deal. I did the Lamborghini comparison yesterday. Well, yeah. You know, maybe he’s like a Lamborghini where it’s really nice for a second and then you like hit a bump and then the car stops working for five years and then you turn it back on and it finally starts working and you’re like, “Whoa, this guy could throw 103 and then he he just hits the IL and his or DL in his IIL and is just hurt for the entire year.” So, yeah, it’s a real wild wild roller coaster with Cop. But, right, but on a low cost on a low cost one-year deal and you say you got to rip through maybe 23 relief pitchers, what’s low cost? $3 million. He’s making 10 million. You think Michael, he throws 103. If he’s healthy, he’s going to be fine. Coming off an injury 3 million 103 is something the Cubs don’t have. If I was the White Sox, I’d give him seven million right now. If you’re offering him three Yeah, one war is worth $10 million. All he has to do is go out and throw 10 20 strikeouts and he’ll get one war. Like the He’s making money. I don’t even know if that he actually pitched in 2025, too. He never like made it back for the postseason, but I don’t know if he like I don’t know the extent of his injury. I don’t think he’s that belored. Yeah, we’re not going to go back and forth on millions. I mean, Ryan Presley made nine last year. I mean, he he’ll probably he’ll cost more than three. I I’m willing to definitely concede that. Um and I will say Presley made if Presley made nine, then I’d willing to give Copek the same amount. Right. Okay. And that my thing would probably be can we can we do can we do lower base and can we get structure on incentive? That would be kind of my thing there. Can we do maybe six and can we get you up to nine if you actually stay on the mount and pitch? And that’s an interesting name too as well because I just want to rip through this just really quick because when we talk about doing the bullpen and we talk about everything that’s going on. Yeah. Oh, it’s re Oh, we’re back, baby. We’re back. Uh we lost the screen for half a second there. Um when we talk about the bullpen, at least over the last three years, I think uh chapter one and chapter 2 were awful. I think this year was a great improvement. Um a 3.78 RA for the bullpen this year, fifth in the National League. They were fifth in saves, fifth in hits and allowed. This is all National League numbers. Second in the National League in whip at 1.23. Tied for sixth in all of Major League Baseball. Fourth fewest allowed home runs at 58. Second fewest walks allowed in Major League Baseball. One behind the league leader, the Philadelphia Phillies. I love that number, Luke. But the other one that you talk about when we talk about Michael Copek, eighth in strikeouts in the National League. So, the Cubs bullpen wasn’t gonna really blow your hair back, right? It wasn’t gonna like pop on the radar gun. Uh, it wasn’t crazy swing and miss. They didn’t walk guys. Um, they got contact. They limited their base runners and they did not allow home runs. Can you rebottle up that formula, Luke, and roll it back again a year or do you There’s a part of it that feels a little lucky to me because we got to change this cast of characters here. when you’re not walking guys. I think that has more to do with the player maybe more than the system. Just in my opinion, I think it’s dangerous what the Cubs do trying to basically create a bullpen every off season. But I also understand it because there’s so much volatility, right? Like it’s just it’s a total crapshoot roll of the dice. Teams that think they’re going to have a great bullpen, it it just doesn’t last. It’s It’s why in the grades I went pre- deadline D and then you go to like high B’s because after that it was so much better. They they totally redid it. We looked at the Dodgers last offseason and we said, “Well, this bullpen’s so good, it’s so stupid, they’re going to win like 115 games.” And when it got down in the end, it was so beat up that the bullpen was a problem for the Dodgers. Yeah. And and we went into a playoff series saying that the Padres’s were going to own the Cubs because of their bullpen. and it was going to shorten the game so much and they had all this money in it and yet at the same time I would argue the Cubs bullpen was every bit as good just not as flashy as the Padres’s in a short three-game series. Yeah, Cubs bullpen in the playoffs was absolutely fantastic. I don’t think you can ask for anything more than what they were able to provide you. It was the starting pitching and the rough starts for the Chicago Cubs that got them in trouble. It’s just it’s just it’s tough. It’s got to be a headache or Alka-Seler Tums inducing for Jed and Carter every year to like just think of like the guys who didn’t make it from the team. Uh you know they started with Eli Morgan didn’t make it. Ryan Presley didn’t make it. Nate Pearson didn’t make it. Julian Merryweather didn’t make it. Ryan Brazier never a factor. Porter Hodgej hurt the whole time. They had to turn to Gavin Hollowell. Ethan Roberts. They brought in Mike Sarroka didn’t work out. Michael Fulmer made an appearance at some point this year. Chris Flexon made an appearance and actually did pretty well for himself. It it’s hard. It’s so many variables that they have to roll over and and and everyone in the chat is right. The bullpen absolutely sucked to start the year. And just like everyone on their fantasy football team, they went to the waiver wire and they kept picking up guys until a guys a couple guys hit and by the end of the year it was a pretty good solid unit. Banking on that happening again, it’s it’s it’s tough. Now, I like your idea of Ben Brown and Javier Assad as in-house options that could maybe be some of these pieces for next year, but you know, this is something that the Cubs are committed to. I’m not actually I can’t heavily criticize it because I do believe that bullpens are volatile. You know, you pay Tanner Scott a bunch of money, he’s good one year, he’s terrible the next. I get I get that understanding. Is he worth 73 million? Probably not. But it is such a gamble to just turn it over so heavily year after year and including that in the middle of a season too. Another hoping and wishing is that Palencia was the guy last year that maybe we thought Hajj would actually be. So hopefully one of these next young arms that throws heat can be Palencia at the end of the season last year. Palencia goes up becomes your starter. Maybe it’s Luke Little. Maybe it’s Porter Hodgej that steps into that role. Those two guys throw hard. But what do we want the Cubs to have in the bullpen? Gas. We want gas, right? Gas. Oolina. So, think of the names I just said to you. Valencia can throw hard. Luke Little could throw hard. Porter Hodgej could throw hardish, right? Copek could throw hard. Ben Brown could throw harder than what they had on the team. All those guys you start to look at and you say, “Well, that bullpen would throw much harder than the guys they had last year.” And you could still mix in the Pomeran’s, the Ray, the Assad. Yeah, I wor swing and miss with what I just said. And I’m not a big fan, but I would just prepare ourselves Cubs fans for a possible Mike Sroka reunion, right? Some sort of version. I Yeah, I just Sorry. I was underwhelmed. I was underwhelmed, but they loved him. Jed said a lot of stuff that he liked about him. He does have a fast pole that can get up to 95 96 when he’s right and when he’s got his delivery and his mechanics together. Uh wait, Luke, we got like just like two or three minutes left in the show. It’s good, better, best, man. Set set this up. I’m excited about this. Good, better, best. Never let it rest. So, my good uh I would say I forget what I wrote down. Let me see. I got it here. Is my picture going to go? Ballpark City. We’re doing ballpark foods. Well, I know that ballpark food. My good is roasted peanuts. Anytime you can throw peanut shells on the on the ground at a ballpark, I’m happy. Uh, my better is grilled hot dogs. Oh my god, this is stupid. with grilled onions. Now, my best is the hot pretzel with cheese. And my never let it rest, of course, is the ice cream sundae in the batting helmet because if you do, it’s going to melt. So, never let it rest. When you get that ice cream sundae, bang, you go after that. You hammer that thing. You take it down. You don’t talk. You don’t watch what’s going on in the game. Sunday. This is going to lead off the show. Yeah. This was AMB block originally, Sean, because I we were originally the title of the show and it was three segments. Well, so here’s the here’s the part and I’m kind of glad we didn’t because man, we’re we’re in lock step, right? We did not look at this beforehand. My good is uh the hand the hand the hand snacks, sunflower seeds, peanuts, something you can just, you know, hit Er, I was like, “What?” Yeah. Exactly. Like, you’re at the game. So, my peanut peanut shells. Got to throw peanut shells. Yeah. Okay. Well, I’m I’m also a little I like to get them in the hair of the people sitting in front of me, all that stuff. Yeah. Get stuck. Little dust sprinkled in the good was uh Yeah. My good was peanuts and sunflower seeds. Uh my better or no, my good was sunflower seeds. My better was peanuts. My best was hot dogs, Chicago style, of course. My never let it rest was beer or alcohol of any kind because in the 120 club sitting in the left field bleachers, you got to know you ain’t drinking that thing. That thing is warming up really quick. That’s why I get like the iced tea uh seltzer drink with a ton of ice in it. I enjoy that a whole lot. Good. Uh uh so your good gets better nachos in a helmet. Nachos great in a plate. Good gets better nachos in a helmet. I love my nachos with something that you can also toss onto your head and then also till your better is best. The Wrigleyfield Italian beef. I don’t know what it is. I don’t know why it is. But when the Cubs are playing and I get that Italian beef at Wrigleyfield, I am in absolute heaven. Well, I should have said the never let it rest is the do right donut going into the ballpark. Stuff a few in your pockets. That’s the way to really hammer it out is the do- Right donut into the pockets before you go in. And I didn’t make it just specific to Wrigley. That’s pretty much any ballpark I go to. Those are my go-tos. Have I had French fries or perogi somewhere? Yeah, sure. Oh, yeah. And then nachos really quick. Um, at a guaranteed rate, the nacho brisket is out of this world. You got to get it in the outfield concourse, but I had that over the summer. That was absolutely nuts. Toss that in a helmet. I’m good to go. Yeah. Uh, Sean, do you have anything that would be your your best or your never let it rest? Something you just can’t let go of for ballpark food. I I feel like it’s in the wrong way, but I’m never going to let it rest. uh that the campfire milkshake is egregious, that the campfire milkshake is actually something that you should not advertise. And I will never let it rest until they stop showing that. That’s an arrow. Who’s having a milkshake at a baseball game? Having a milkshake at a baseball game. I mean, it’s just like putting Think of all the lactose intolerant people just gassing it up in that ballpark. No, thank you. It’s it the the milkshake is super melting in the heat. I don’t want that’s too much dairy. Now, an ice cream sundae is a different story, but I will go back to my childhood and in my childhood, little Luke would say, “What about that chocolate malt with the little wooden spoon?” You know what I’m talking about? The little dish with the little wooden spoon. Yeah. Wendy’s Frosty 100%. When you’re stewing the scoop. Doing the little scoop. All right, Luke. I think we’re officially hungry here. That means we probably need to go. Thank you so much for tuning in to the C Show Cups podcast. Make sure you subscribe to our channel, CSGO Cubs. Tell a neighbor. Tell a stranger. Tell the neighbor. Stranger. And then you messed that up. Stranger. Of course I did. I No one can do it like you. Fly the W. Fly. Yeah. Fly the W. We’ll be back next week, everybody. Have a great week. Fly the W. See you soon. [Music] [Applause] Like the mayor.

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Are the Cubs in a spot where they need to trade one of their top prospects to improve the 2026 team? What would Moisés Ballesteros or Owen Caissie fetch in a trade? Could the Cubs find their potential ace? Plus, Daniel Palencia’s report card is in! Join the CHGO Cubs crew, Luke Stuckmeyer and Joey Christopoulos as they discuss!

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