Miami Heat: Who benefits and loses when Tyler Herro returns? | Five on the Floor

Miami Heat: Who benefits and loses when Tyler Herro returns? | Five on the Floor

Welcome to the latest episode of Five on the Floor in the Five Reason Sports Network. Thanks for joining us on your favorite podcast app on Apple, Apple Podcast, on Android. We recommend Spotify. Also check out the five reasons YouTube channel. Also, we always tell you to go to off the floor. That’s place for the most heat anywhere. Most heat information and convers off the floor. You can check out everything that we’ve got going on there. As long as you pay the $299, that’ll get you through. You bypass the Apple charge. If you use the link right here in the description, you’ll be right there and off the floor with the most passionate heat fans. Also, this is a Blue Chew weekend on five on the floor. You bet you didn’t hear, you didn’t expect that, right, fellas? You already know what time it is. It’s time to level up. And Blue Chu just dropped something crazy. Talking about next level championship belt goldplated energy. 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On the floor, that’s the promo code on the floor. Visit bluechw.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank BlueChew for sponsoring this podcast. And now today’s episode. Uhoh. Yeah, it’s mercy music by mercy again. Keep nation the culture. Yo, I need you to call some out blanket for the shot. Still five on the floor. Still ride for my dog on the court. Still survive in the wall. Keep your eye on the ball or get burn. Keep this mic off the wall without turning the cheek from night to day. No sleeping pads so allowed to mourn us. The nut is sleeping us. Never catch us. Live from Miami. We pour in the heat with five reason sports from the court to the streets. [Music] Dang. Be patient. [Applause] Welcome to Five on the Floor, a daily insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA featuring Ethan Skolnick, Greg Sander, Alex Toledo, Brady Hawk, and others from the Five Reason Sports Network. Also, make sure to subscribe to Off the Floor for the most heat anywhere. Five on the floor. Here’s today’s floor plan. I bet you didn’t think you were getting that ad from me. I’m Ethan Schol. You can follow me at Ethan J. Skull. I got a five reason sports. Greg Sander. You can follow him at Greg Sander. The Miami Heat are 10 and six. They’re in the middle of a road trip. We’re going to give you a few episodes this weekend because the team is hot right now. So, we know that more people are listening. We were not expecting this. 10-6 after 16 games. No Tyler Hero for all of it. No Norman Powell and Bam Adabio for part of it. They’ve had to deal with some off-the-court stuff. fair exposure. The coach has had to deal with what’s happened with his house, the Terry Rosier situation that the Heat can’t seem to get any relief for. And yet 10 and six with a schedule that included, I think, 12 teams that made the playoffs last year. And you know, one of the losses was the loss to Cleveland. That shouldn’t have happened, but they’ve beaten the Knicks twice. I know Brunson didn’t play in one of them, but of course, they haven’t had hero the whole time. Uh, and they beat Cleveland at full strength. They were tight with Orlando up until the very end. win that game if not for a couple offensive rebounds by Wendell Carter Jr. They have not played Detroit yet, but also they have not played Washington yet. They’ve not played New Orleans yet. They’ve not played a lot of the really bad teams in the league yet. Um Sacramento, there’s a lot of teams. The Brooklyn, they got a bunch of games with Brooklyn. Um, this is turning into something interesting and we’re going to do other episodes specifically about does that mean that you start to try to make the big move or do you see what happens with this roster? But we want to at least set the stage here by looking back a little bit because we’re expecting Tyler Herro to be back soon. Uh, I will say Tim Reynolds on Playback, if you joined us on playback.tvrsn TV backsn when he popped in from behind me on the uh in the media room and said he thought Tyler was going to be back for the Dallas game. Looks like Tim’s going to be right. Uh Shams has reported the same. Tyler is ramping up. What is it? Recalibrating was the the caption on his IG post. Yeah. So, so Greg and I got Greg Sander here again. You can follow me at Ethan J Sports. It looks like uh we’re headed towards a Tyler Hero return as soon as Monday when they get back from the road trip. They could be 11 and six, although Philly is not going to be easy. And what we want to go back through is what everybody else has shown during this period of time without Tyler. So, we’re going to go player by player here. There’s some whose roles were more directly affected than others, but let’s just start with the obvious one at the top here. Norman Powell. Um, when he was acquired, I think you and I were sort of stunned that that’s all there is. There’s no catch. And this has been beyond any wildest imagination, even as much as I know I was hyping it over the summer and talking about what the Heat thought of him behind the scenes on the court, off the court, personality, vibe. Uh, so different than what they’ve experienced of late, low maintenance, and I think his lowest point total in any game is 19. Is that right? That last night it sounds right. Yeah, he he’s basically he’s at 49%. Uh, so that’s 1% away from a 50, 45, and 90 start or his shooting splits. And I just think we both acknowledge that we thought that this would work, but we didn’t think it’d work this well. and 25 a game. If we’ve learned anything from Tyler being out, it’s that Norm, he may not be as dynamic in other ways as Tyler, but we can say for sure that from an offensive perspective, if we’re just looking at scoring, there’s a lot of things that Norm does that we that this roster greatly needed and he’s better at doing it than I think we even could have expected. So, that is a huge learn like the fact that we’re going into this uh they’re 10 and six. Tyler hasn’t played and the big conversation is are they going to work well next to each other. Um and and I was floating around the podcast space and not every one of our Miami Heat uh podcasts that are out there think that Tyler and Norm are going to be so seamless. I just think Norm has exceeded every expectation. So, if we if we’ve learned nothing else, it’s that Norm is a certified baller and he seems to be the type of guy that the Heat would invest in. I just don’t see any way that this is going to be problematic on offense. I I am searching for that. I’m trying to understand the perspective of those who just don’t like Tyler, which seems it comes down to, right? I mean, I I I can’t understand how adding a a highly skilled offensive player to the mix of a dynamic offense when that highly skilled offensive player is not a postup guy. He’s not slowing the game down intentionally. He can play fast. He has played fast. We There were complaints before that he played too fast. There were too many off the dribble pull-ups, okay, in transition and all of that stuff. Now it’s the other direction. He’s going to gum things up. How? How? Why? Because he’s going to ask for a bunch of pick and rolls. Like I Exactly. They think he needs a screen. And since this offense isn’t based on very many pick and rolls, they’re like, “What’s going to happen there?” But I think he can play off ball in ways that people are underestimating. And so I I agree. I think it’ll work. And just Norm being this good and adding Tyler to it, there’s just no way that we would have started this season thinking that the back court would be this good. He was playing off the ball to start last season. Yeah. Right. and then he had to go back on the ball because Jimmy, you know, went off the deep end. I mean, I this to me is just I don’t understand. Like again, if Norm was a different personality and player, then I could again ar understand some of the trepidation here. Tyler posted that on IG yesterday and Norm posted the eyes. It’s clear that Norm is in his corner. He wants to play with him. This is not they’re not fighting over money or anything like that that we can you know it’s certainly not I haven’t heard anything like that. Um so this is not this is not problematic. I I think the biggest thing we’ve learned about Norm to to pivot forward here is his consistency. It’s there every night. It’s there every night. You know that he’s going to figure out out a way to score. I don’t really know how he does it honestly. He doesn’t look like a scorer necessarily. He doesn’t move necessarily like a scorer like we’ve seen some others. He’s not uber athletic. Um he’s I mean he’s he’s got tree trunks for legs. Uh and but he he moves differently than a lot of other guys, but he finishes with both hands around the basket. He’s crafty in some ways that Dwayne was towards the end actually. And I when he gets in a defensive stance, although he’s not what Dwayne was, obviously I’m not going to say that even when Dwayne didn’t care at a certain point, but but but the but he looks like Dwayne in his stance sometimes. Um, it’s it’s just been it’s been fascinating to watch this player and say, why did it take so long? Why did it take so long for teams around the league to realize what he could be? And I know he came in as a second round pick. Toronto, he came in kind of to a loaded team. Uh, he was a bit player on the champ, not a bit player. He he was effective, but he wasn’t one of their top four or five guys on the championship team. Goes to Portland. He’s behind Dame. Um, they still have McCullum at the time, right? I believe. Uh, and Right. and never got the perfect storm of opportunity meets um his place that he is in right now in his career. The closest we saw was in uh LA last year, but I mean he’s averaging his highest field goal attempts and I’m interested to hear your perspective on if you think he can stick he’s at 16.3 leads the team. You think that uh one will he lead the team and two will 16 come down? that that would be his career high a little bit. I think so. I I think maybe 14 15 more consistently. Um but I don’t think it’s going to be a massive drop because they’re just getting so many opportunities. I I think that where uh the drop is going to come is from some of the role guys. I I think there’s going to be less shots for some of them and we’ll talk about them and there’s one in particular. So let’s pivot to that. I to me the biggest question is Haimey Hawkins Jr. when Tyler comes back simply because they’ve put the ball in his hands so much and down the stretch and pretty much every time he’s come into the game, it’s been about him and if he’s paired with Tyler in some of these situations, it won’t be to quite that effect. Now, they have a good off the court chemistry. I’ve seen it. Um, I think that I I I think that it could work on the court. There are things that they do well differently from each other, but again, this team has leaned into Haime and just like they used to lean into Tyler off the bench. And when you’re leaning into that player, I do think there will be a little bit more of a transition for him. Is that fair? I I think it’s fair, but I also um think that Tyler as a spot up relief option, as long as Jaime continues to show what he’s improved at, and that’s the decision making when he goes downhill and finding open players and not making as many mistakes. If Tyler’s one of those guys, he shoots as well as any of the rest of these guys that he’s kicking out to. So, as long as Jaime’s decision-m doesn’t, you know, all of a sudden change, which it there’s no indication, this is working well with him driving that second unit. So, maybe there’s some staggering Spo can do to like lessen the growing pains. But, I also don’t think that these two guys will get in the way of each other just because Tyler is perfectly capable of in certain moments being the guy who’s providing the space. Yeah. And and I I do think there’ll be a concerted effort on both of them to make it work. I I just again I wonder um I don’t know. I just that’s the one that’s the one that that that gets me a little bit. I’m not think someone’s averages have to come down. I understand where you’re coming from. They’re averaging so many points. Are you going to really average even more points per game? Yeah. I mean I think that’s the thing that some sort of novice fans don’t realize. Just adding Tyler’s 25 points doesn’t give them 25 more points a game. like they have to come away from somewhere. The hope is that the overall total doesn’t go down uh because he’s put in there. And we’ve seen Euing theory stuff before. People don’t know that’s when a star player goes out, others step up and we saw that in the 99 uh playoff series against the Heat and all their ass with the Knicks going to the finals and that’s been a theory for a long time. We’re 25 years out. Uh credit Bill Simmons for that one. So, there is some of that stuff that exists, but I I don’t think I I don’t know if Tyler is going to be necessarily additive right away, but I don’t think he’s going to subtract. But I do think from Haime there might need to be a little bit more of the garbage stuff, right? Like which he’s gotten off offensive rebounds and cuts that he may be off the ball just a little bit more. All right, let’s get to one more and then after the break we’ll get to more of them. Um, let’s talk about Dave. I We don’t need to talk about Bam because we know what Bam is with or without Tyler. We talk about Bam a lot. Uh, and and I you know that he’ll figure it out at some point and then we’ll probably have some games like they forgot about him. Uh, but Tyler also will get him involved in some pick and rolls. I want to talk about DaVon real quick. because I think other than Hakez, uh, he has popped the most without Tyler and I wonder if it will stick. Now, I think he’s going to remain in the starting lineup. I do think that Spo is going to go with because it keeps Drew where he’s at as a backup point guard and I don’t really see I don’t see Spo taking Drew out of the rotation as well as he’s playing. Um, so if that’s the case and DaVon is going to start and you’re starting Norman Tyler, Wiggins is out right now, but I think when Wiggins is back, I think he starts and I think where goes back to the bench. I know this is a whole separate episode and I know he fans want to see it, but I’m concerned about a lineup of where Bam Powell Hero and Mitchell and who exactly is gu who’s guarding the wings? Who’s guarding the wings? Norm Tyler? You don’t want that. I have a feeling that they are going to try to uh basically funnel DaVon’s energy into uh this bench unit. And it’s why I know what you mean about Drew Smith playing so well. And there’s point of attack defense questions that I think will keep Drew in the mix no matter what just because he’s can be relied upon there. But this is a real conundrum that they’re in because DaVon has done nothing. No. to um to indicate that he should lose his starting spot or play less minutes. He’s in his he is being playing like a star in his role for lack of a better term. The the play making and lack of uh of mistakes, four and a half to one turnover. What are you doing there? I mean that it’s just been so good and the fact that it is coupled with pretty good shooting most of the time and defense, right? There’s just no way that he’s not going to be relied upon. But it it they get really small if that’s the lineup that they’re going to go with with Wiggins as basically the guy next to Bam. And that that that’s I think I guess if we’re going to uh ever do a transaction episode, it’s because of this type of question mark of like where does Wiggins fit if all of these guys are at their potential and healthy. Well, the other issue is if you if you don’t start Wiggins, the alternative is going to be where? And then like I said, there’s that’s the way to get bigger, but it’s not to get bigger on the wings. And then you’re you’re basically asking Bam to guard the wings, right? and and where to clean it up, which Bam can do, but it’s sort of a weird lineup. It’s basically three guards and two bigs. Um, with with no wings in a wing heavy league, and I think Spo thinks of Andrew Wiggins as a starter in the league. I don’t think he’s going to bring him off the bench. I agree with you there. I I I I Yeah. So, I think Wiggins is going to start. Now, this may give him a couple day grace period, a couple game grace period if if Wiggins misses some time and he and he keeps wearing there. The other thing is, and we’ll talk about this on the other side, I want to talk about Larson on the other side, but I I think I think DaVon’s gonna continue to start. I do. I I would be I would be surprised. I understand your reasoning for it, but I think the Drew factor bringing him off the bench, and I I just think having what DaVon brings in terms of paint attacks and all to the start of the game, the point of attack defender, which is critical, I they don’t have it otherwise. I mean, then it becomes Wiggins. I see that’s the other thing. You can’t if Wiggins is out, you can’t sit DaVon. You can’t sit Davon, right? Yeah. And Wiggins doesn’t really solve that the way that DaVon and Drew do. Let’s just be honest. No. So, there’s some wings I rather have DaVon and Drew on than Andrew Wiggins, honestly. Correct. So, I don’t because Drew guards up. So, I I don’t I don’t think Davon’s going to the bench. I’ll be surprised. Uh, I mean, you can clip this if I’m wrong, but that’s why Spo gets paid the big bucks. That’s why that’s why I don’t. Anyway, uh, we’ll tell you about a great Oh, big bucks. You know how you know how to do a transition here. In addition to a Bluetooth weekend, this is a cash app weekend. By the way, it’s a prize picks weekend, too. So, use the code five fibe. Uh, put down your five bucks, you get $50 in free lineups. We always tell you about that. That helps us out as well. But cash app, that’s how we send and receive money. And it’s it’s more than just a safe way to send and receive money. Although, we’ll tell you how to download the app here in a second. With the Cash App card, you get tons of perks without hidden fees. Think early access to concert pre-sales, Kendrick Lamar, Billy Isish, whatever you want. Plus, discounts on everyday purchases at brands you’re probably already spending money on. It also helps keep your money safe by automatically flagging suspicious transactions and letting you lock your card instantly if it’s ever locked or stolen. For a limited time, new Cash App customers can earn 10 bucks if they use the code cash app 10 in their profile at signup. Send $5 to a friend within 14 days. Terms apply. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partners. Prepaid debit cards issued by Sunbank member FDIC. Discounts and promotions provided by Cash App at Block brand. Visit cash.appleodcast for full disclosures. Pella Larson, I can’t think of too many games he’s played poorly in. They win when he starts, right? But he’s not going to start. I can’t see him starting Pella at the four, right? when Tyler I mean honestly he could he could make it work like this is another guy who doesn’t deserve less of a role. He’s played really well. He’s he deserves a rotation spot but it just it’s going to get crowded and if Haimey continues to be featured. It is an interesting situation where where do they slot Larson in? does he become another guy that they have to kind of they’re going to have to revamp the bench unit essentially and add I mean it’s a good problem to have but somebody’s getting squeezed and and you’ve alluded to it being Simone Fonteio and it might have to be because I mean who the hell else will it be? Um I said Drew Smith but I understand your defensive concerns. There isn’t another guy that does that. Larson does play defense and so that I think helps him. And if the shooting continues to be there, they’ve liked him. He’s a player that they drafted. Um I think that it’s much more likely that he finds his way out onto the court than Fonteio or even like Kashad Johnson. Yeah. No, I think I mean great for Kashad Johnson by the way. I’m happy for Kishad um that you know he got that opportunity, they put him in the right role and he performed and he contributed to that victory. But yeah, he’s the 13th guy. I mean, I I think that’s pretty well, Casperis is the 13th guy. Kishad’s the 12th guy. Uh, but Casperis eventually may be more than the 13th guy. I think Keshad is kind of in the role that, you know, he’s he’s a break glass in case of emergency person. And again, they’ll look at bigs uh in mid December. Pella, you know, I’m like president of the Pella Larson fan club. I have been. Um, I just think he’s a winning player. I think that guy’s going to win championships as a role player. I I He’s just plugandplay. I I don’t I think because of that Spo is not concerned about where he uses him. Uh because you know he’s going to come in, he’s gonna do. So I I think the minutes are going to be there though. I mean the biggest most impressive thing and Brady and Alex and I have talked about this is is the shooting. Like you’re not you’re not afraid when he gets a ball on a kick out now that it’s that the shot’s going to be off. His form looks better. Uh he’s it’s been much cleaner overall. He’s been much more reliable. I feel confident. I feel more confident I did than I did with Highmith in that role, which is sometimes the ball sort of swings to Larson like it did to Haywood. So I look, they’ve they’ve they found a guy here and it’s very hard to find guys in the second round. We talked to Adele about this like 90, you know, 80 to 90% of them don’t make an impact. This is a guy who’s already making an impact on a winning team. They hit on one. This is, you know, really positive for them. But again, I don’t think they need to force feed him the minutes. Also, the thing with him is he commits. He’s doing a little better at this lately, but he still can be foulrone. Mhm. And the fact that he’ll have a little more limited minutes, he can play with a a bandon at that point because because he’s not going to have to play that way. All right. So, you mentioned a couple of others here and I want to talk. Well, I think we take these three together and then we close. Um, you mentioned Fonteio. I I do think as good as he’s been in a variety of ways that he’s the guy who gets squeezed to the 11th spot. Doesn’t mean he’s not going to play. When they need shooting, they’ll go to him. But, they’re adding a shooter. I I don’t think he he’s as needed as he was before. He’s been great at the movement shooting stuff this year. His metrics are top 10 in the league. He had a bad game in Chicago, so was prior to that. But I do think he becomes 11th. Drew is not coming out of the rotation. He’s not. I’m tell he’s not. Spo is not going to shove that guy that he he catalyzed that win the other night. He He has minutes where it’s just like, you know, he changed the game. He’s winning. I It’s It’s He’s not taking that guy out. like this is he’s he’s like Rodney McGrder on steroids. Yeah. I mean he he’s just not he’s not one of those guys that Spo is going to eliminate. To me that really interesting conversation here is Yovic who is the one guy and you know I’m also co-president of the Nicola Yoic fan club but you’re about to say this it ain’t been great. Okay. It ain’t been great. And they gave him the extension and he’s had one game where he’s popped. And in that game he had six turnovers, but Spo was allowed to Spo play let him play through it and he had 29 points. With all the players they have now, I don’t know that Spo is going to let him play through it. And so I kind of feel like the opportunity for Yovic was when Tyler was out. And in fact, Tyler said flat out at the time on media day that Nico is the one that’s going to benefit the most from me being out. And I hate to say it, but it’s been everybody but Nico who has benefited. And then you also have the concern of a guy who takes his performances very hard. And so you worry about confidence with him if he’s not playing consistently and then doesn’t get in rhythm to play well. He is the one of all of them that I’m most concerned about not finding his game even though he and Hero have really really really good chemistry. Is that fair? Yeah. I’m glad you’re closing here because it’s the most it’s the flash point we need to watch for most because uh Fonteo he has no conscience when it comes to shooting. So, like they can just sit him for a week and he’ll go back out there and the minute he’s out there, he’s just going to catch it and look at the basket and shoot it. Nico is not wired that way and he doesn’t play obviously the same ways as Fonteo, but I just mean the way that he approaches his minutes while on the court. And now that they’ve extended him, the Heat are are not an organization that like it wouldn’t be unprecedented for them to say if he’s not playing well, well, Nico, you’re going to sit for a little bit. And I know that you got extended. And that’s a dicey game with a player who has um you know that we’ve seen, I think, thrives off being confident. And it’s obviously not a boost of confidence if you have to sit, but this is a numbers game. They’re really deep. And at 125 points a game, they’re first in the league. Uh, as I’m looking at it now, if that starts to change when Tyler’s back and Tyler’s such a dynamic scorer and they need to squeeze from somewhere, who’s the one guy who, if we had to say has not lived up to expectations to start this year, the the one guy that sticks out is Nico. Everyone else really has been at or above expectations. Fair. Yeah, no doubt. And we you weren’t on postgame last night, but I mean this is what heat fans do. You know, you win by 40 points, you score 140 or whatever. And everybody in the comments was like, “This is why we don’t need Nico back.” Now, he processes this stuff. This stuff may start to get in his head a little bit. He just started following Twitter recently and didn’t realize how mean it was. Mentioned that to Brady. Um I I just I He fans can never be happy. The team’s going to be winning, but they’re always going to be pitting players against each other. They just gave Yovic an extension. They didn’t have to do that. We were all in favor of it. And then you start to pivot and you’re like, “Okay, now if it’s not going to work, if he can’t find a role this year, then does he become the piece that’s moved? And if he’s the piece that’s moved, is there a team that’s going to look past the way he started the season with an organization that believes in him and want that piece? like you say like here’s one guy and again we’ll just close it here but we’re going to do episodes on on transactions as we’ve done but we talked about Daniel Gaffford will those contracts fit do you have to add a ton more to get Gaffford like that’s the big question but we but we but we didn’t think so right because of the trajectory that Yoic was on now it’s like okay what are other teams going to look at him do you want to move him I I look I I think the guy’s a good player I just think he needs he needs confidence and role But also, Spoke gave him some of that this to start this season in a way that we’ve been asking for and he did not capitalize on it. And so, we just got to be honest with this. You know, we don’t we try not to play favorites here. Um, everybody knows again that my my belief in in Yovic and Larson as players in particular. I’ve talked about it, but one of them has done exactly what we expected and more and the other one has not. And the one who’s not is the one who’s getting paid and that that complicates all of this. So, we’ll see where this goes. Anyway, more episodes to come. Uh, we tell you all the time, use that code prize pix 5 f i ve cash app cash app 10 and blue cho you get 10% off if you use the code on the floor. Have a good day everybody.

Tyler Herro’s return is imminent, as soon as Monday. Without him, several players on the Miami Heat have stepped up. Whose roles will change the most? Ethan Skolnick and Greg Sylvander discuss.

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