Are the Packers Meeting Expectations?!

Are the Packers Meeting Expectations?!

What is up Packers fans? Happy Monday. Welcome in to an all new episode of the Packad podcast. I’m your host Andy Herman. You can follow me on Twitter, andyherman NFL. You know her. Perry Goldstein, Perry Goldstein. Packs what she said. She’s the best. And him, Wisco Grant, Grant Bills, Wisco Sports Show. They’re both great people. friends. How the heck did you enjoy your stress-free Sunday with no Packers game? It was amazing. It was It was pretty good. I I just feel like I don’t know if it was this way in all of Wisconsin, but my local cable provider gave me Browns ners in the noon slate and I just I’m like, “This does nothing for me.” And Seahawks Vikings was admittedly a terrible game, but it was at least interesting. So, I enjoyed the stress-free day. I would have liked to see Panthers Rams, but it was so good. It was Do you have like Do you have Sunday NFL ticket or something? So, we have Sunday NFL ticket um which was just the best investment ever. Although we kind of ruined it for ourselves because if we ever can’t have it, like can’t afford it because we split it with two other friends. So, it’s who live in our building. Um so, if if we ever can’t afford it, I’m ruined watching football for myself because there’s no way I’m going back to Red Zone after this. It’s so so good. I dream of being a red zone guy. You’re like two levels above me. But I I also think there’s something very I don’t know the word. There’s there’s something very it’s correct. It’s proper to be like this is the game I was given. Like this is what the football universe has said that is my game today. So you say that until your teams are the Giants and the Jets in your market and that’s all you ever get on cable. That’s true. I feel like in the Midwest we normally draw like a re like a reasonable American would probably want this game. You know what I mean? Unless it’s like Bears, Jets or I feel like we we mostly we’re right down heart of America here, Perry. We get we get the things that interest most Americans. I’m I’m still I have Sunday Ticket. I’m still a Red Zone. So I I prefer red zone especially in the opening window when there’s seven or eight games going on. Now, if something gets really good, then maybe yes, I change over to that one game, but even then, like they keep a pretty close eye on it in red zone. And I just feel like I’m getting like everything that I want from those seven, eight games. And then even the 3 p.m. window, I’m usually a little bit more red zone oriented. And then I really enjoy watching the seven, you know, the the Sunday night, Monday night, Thursday night games just in their totality. So I get and then of course if there’s a Packer game, I’m just watching the Packers game. that. Yeah, I I feel like I get my full games from the Packers Thursday night, Monday night, Sunday night football, and when I get just like loads of football all at once and get to see everything, I’m in a very happy space. I guess we’re just I mean, I just like keying on formations and specific player. I guess I’m just more detail oriented than you, Andy. I guess I I just I like I like No, I there was no there was no focus on Ner. I don’t even remember who they play, the Browns. I was my eyes were pointed very easily. The early the early slate the only like good I mean the Rams Panthers game was excellent. Yep. Um just really excellent and the Rams losing is obviously good for the Packers. Um the Colts Texans game was also really fun. Uh watching Daniel Jones trying to just play on what’s clearly a broken leg is just a little bit painful, but it was close. That’s why it was interesting. The rest of them were not close. And like the same with I mean it’s it’s always fun watching anyone beat down on the Vikings, but it’s just like a little sad at this point. Um so yeah, good good good Sunday. Although it’s going to feel like a really long time when the Packers finally play the Bears next weekend. Three games, you know, really quick in what, like a 17 game span and obviously two games in like a 4 day span. And so you’re you’re overloaded and then having to wait all of us and not not only just wait until next Sunday, but wait for what feels like a big time intense rivalry again for the first time in a really long time, even though I don’t know if the Bears have earned that quite yet. But they are the number one seed in the NFC as we speak because those Rams lost uh to the Carolina Panthers. That did open up some potential number one seed options for Green Bay as well, which we’ll talk about. But the Chicago Bears, the number one team in the NFC, here’s your playoff picture right now. Bears are just to just to like really book end this to begin with. The Bears are your number one seed with nine wins. The 49ers are your number seven seed with nine wins. Like that that’s how crazy this thing is. So Bears are one at nine and three. Rams are two at nine and three. Eagles are three at 8 and four. And then the Buccaneers are four at seven and five. The Seahawks are five at nine and three. The Packers are six at 83 and one. And then the 49ers are seven 9 and four. On the outside looking in are the Lions at 7 and five. The Cowboys at 65-1 and the Panthers at 7-6. More in the NFC South race at the moment, but still only two games uh behind the uh the 49ers basically as well. So, um, it’s a crazy crazy NFC and somehow the Chicago Bears are on top of it for the moment. I have I have two thoughts, okay? One is I was one of my cousins is a Bears fan. Boo. Um, but we were together on Thanksgiving and he was like, I mean, I’m riding it out, but we’re the most fraudulent what at that point they were what, eight and three team I’ve ever seen. Like, I just don’t see it sticking through. And then after this game, it’s like, do you still feel that way? And like the answer teeters on no because they beat a very good team outbeat an offense that is struggling. Clearly the Eagles offense is clearly struggling. So I just think it was an interesting note from a Bears fan. Second is the Panthers loss doesn’t feel so bad anymore. work. I feel like are we revisionist historying it or like are the Panthers actually decent? I feel like that’s a theme where we have a bad Packers experience and then it ages three or four weeks and it’s like oh maybe okay like maybe like does every fan I think every fan base goes through this like I think every individual fan base is mad about everything all the time and then when I watch other teams it’s like oh maybe I shouldn’t be so mad about that thing that my team did. I don’t know. Well, the the Browns loss looks worse. Uh certainly overtime. The Cowboys tie looks not not great, but it still looks better over time. Like they’re 6’5 and one and playing much better football now. Uh the Panthers lost looks better because they’ve been at they just beat the Rams. Like that’s a big deal, too. Like the Packers aren’t the only team that lost to them. Like they’ve they’ve played some good teams and beat them. And then, you know, the the other one obviously is the what? Oh, Eagles. That one actually looks I think worse them just because they look like complete garbage and didn’t really do anything offensively against Green Bay and Green Bay just couldn’t do anything on offense in that particular game. But um that I just think that’s how it es and flows. Some of the teams you beat look like the Steelers win doesn’t look as impressive. Certainly like the Commanders win doesn’t look as impressive. Heck, even the Lions are not a playoff team right now. They’re seven and five in a game and a half out. You know, both of those wins maybe look worse than that what they did at the the time. But, you know, that’s I think to Grant’s point, that’s just life in the NFL. Some of your stuff’s going to look better, some of your stuff’s going to look worse. And at the end of the day, everyone is pretty much in the same same bucket of uh you at least in the the competitive teams of in the NFC, everyone’s lost at least three games. Everyone’s lost at least three games. No, there’s no there’s no I want to reiterate that. There’s no team in the NFC that hasn’t lost at least three games. The Packers have one more tie than the best team in the NFC at the moment. like that’s that’s where things are at. So, the Packers are right in that group of teams and it it just goes to show you how how crazy this NFC is and I think the playoffs is going to be a joy. Not only that, too, but each of these divisional races like Bears and Packers are right next to each other in the North. Panthers and Bucks are right next to each other in the South. In the East, the Eagles still have a a decent lead on the Cowboys, but Cowboys trending up, Eagles trending way down. And then in the West, the the Rams and for or sorry, Rams and Seahawks and 49ers are all within a half game of each other. So, not only are you getting these different sort of playoff, you know, implications with each of these teams within the the seating of the one through like 10 right now, but also you have these amazing battles within your division as well for the the division championship. And some of these games like the Cowboys and the uh Lions are going to play each other this week. That’s perfect. I don’t want to say it’s a deacto elimination game, but like both of those teams kind of need to have it. Maybe it is. I I don’t know. I’m not smart enough to play with the playoff machine and like do the if then. Like I know there’s calcul you can push buttons and get that, but like both of those teams need that game. That’s going to be really really fun. I I respect the Bears I think more than most. Um, and I I think that it’ll be a challenging matchup for the Packers because I think the Bears can do the thing that the Panthers did or that the Giants did where it’s come in, it’s like we’re just going to try to slow this game down and take the air out of the ball, which is like the new expression that I’ve started hearing non-stop for the last couple weeks and and make it a one possession game down the stretch and just hope that the other team makes one mistake, right? And that could be the difference. The Bears can do. And I think the game against the Eagles is the best example yet. Like that team can run the ball. I don’t know that they have the high end of the Packers if they play their best or the Rams if they play their best, but they’re a really sturdy solid operation and I kind of know what I’m getting every week. And if they avoid mistakes and Ben Johnson calls the right plays and and they execute, like I think they can beat anybody even though their point differential, you know, doesn’t look awesome. And of course, it helps to bank all those wins even when you’re not playing well. Like I if the Packers had beaten the Browns and the Panthers in ugly wins, what are we going to sit here today and say, “Well, yeah, but some of those wins like they weren’t all that impressive against good teams.” Like, no, you just bank as many wins as you can and then hope you play your best down the stretch. And I’m not discounting the possibility that Caleb Williams like takes a little bit of a step up in the final month. Why is that unreasonable? And now all of a sudden, they’re a team that’s banked all these wins and they’ve found another gear in the last month. So, no. I I I would actually be very surprised if the Packers uh sweep the Bears. It would be my dream if they split and then hope that the Bears, you know, trip up against another opponent down the stretch. That seems to be what’s most like your dream is Your dream is not allowed to be a split. Your dream is still that they win too. You My dream is I should say that my dream is that they Yeah, I probably worded that poorly. Yeah. No, you’re all good. I mean, Ben Johnson has clearly done something to that locker room because he ripped his shirt off. That’s what he did. Gets up for him. I don’t know. I I don’t I don’t know. I mean, everyone knew when he left the Lions, like he’s he’s the most coveted head coach for a reason. And I thought I think when you go to an organization that needs that much um work, you you’re like, “All right, are you up for the task?” And clearly clearly has he has been up for the task because they are playing really good football. Um but I also think that the Packers defense is like on another level right now and what they do well. Um, the Packers have been able to mitigate pretty easily. I I think scrambling Caleb against Micah Parson slash this pass rush is going to be really fun to watch. Like who is going to win that battle? Um, because Caleb is if I’m going doing a quick rundown of the quarterbacks the Packers have seen this season, but like easily the best runner that they’ve seen, the best scrambler. Um sack like James week two is probably Daniel week two. Okay. Feels like a lifetime ago. But yeah, that’s this is just such a different unit now. But um so anyway, that that’s the one that I’m like that’ll be interesting to watch. Yeah, it’s going to be a very interesting game and obviously very high stakes NFC North. These two fan bases are getting after it on social med on all the social medias. So this this is going to be a fun one. Just going back really quick, Lions Cowboys. If the Lions lose that game, they go down to 12% odds to make the playoffs. If the Cowboys lose that game, they go down to 9% chance to make the playoffs for the New York Times simulator. So basically, a one in 10 chance that they make the playoffs for the losing team. It basically is going to be an elimination game for both of those teams. And the Lions would have no amount. Brown, we think. Um, yeah, that’s kind of what he made it sound like. I I thought that Packers Lions game was so interesting because my my thought about Ben Johnson leaving. My thought was always kind of like I think they’ll mostly be fine because the culture and everything has been built, but where they’ll probably miss Ben Johnson is like that key fourth down that they always seem to be able to convert with him like or that red zone. And I feel like situationally that’s where the Lions have been worse this year. They’ve still been able to in most games like rack up a ton of yards, score points. It’s just some of these situational moments where the Packers were coming up short last year and I I think you really saw Ben Johnson’s absence specifically in that Thanksgiving game. I I just I don’t know. I find that interesting watching someone leave and be like, “Okay, now I’m going to watch them without that guy, you know, and see the little details or see what might be missing.” And I feel like we’re seeing that with the Lions for sure. Can you imagine if Matt Laflur would have called that handoff on what was it like fourth and two and a half, fourth and three, whatever it was that Micah Parsons completely stuffed, you know, uh Jir Gibbs on the play like Matt, we would have heard about that for weeks on end of like, oh, they they handed it off on fourth and three and got stuffed. Like it would just it would we would have talked about it forever and Dan Campbell called that play and you know, Mr. Aggressive himself um looks great when it works. looks really stupid when it doesn’t. That was one that I think you have to question, especially running right at Well, it wasn’t right at Mikey. You had to kind of cut, but still in Micah’s general vicinity, probably not the the smartest idea there. Well, are you supposed to run at Mike or run away? I’m I’m still I’m I’m never sure. It it bases on the play whether he’s the worst player against the run in the world or the best. I’m I’m still not sure. He’s terrible and team should cons, you know, continue to just block him one-on-one would be the the best case scenario, I think. Yeah, he’s he’s not very good overall in run defense or in pass protection. So, just single him up. Every team should be fine. Just follow what the Cardinals did in Pass Pro and run at him as much as you want as well. I’d be all for that. Uh, some really quick notes. Oh, actually, I just really quick before we even get to that, I do want to spend just a minute talking about the Minnesota Vikings because holy hell. Uh, Max Brosmer, as I tweeted out, did the impossible. He has Vikings fans pining for JJ McCarthy again. I didn’t think that was going to be possible going into that game. I I thought that they would like do something well with Brosmer instead of JJ McCarthy. I that is a broken broken team right now. No points. Completely shut out in that game. Guys dropping passes, Aaron Jones fumbling, four interceptions for Brosmer, the including the the pick. Yes. The It was almost the opposite of the Brett Favre stumbling in the snow where he’s like stumble, stumble, stumble. Oh, he throws a completion. This is like I’m getting sacks. Stumble, stumble, stumble, stumble, stumble, pick six it, baby. Like just one of the all-time great Vikings highlights that I’m gonna remember for a long time. It is a very, very broken team right now. Yeah, it was a no no. Yeah. Not a no, no, no. Yes. It was There was another There was another interception later where they’re like finally getting something going and they get into the red zone picked and you’re just like it’s you can just feel them all deflate in that moment. just like today is just so not our day. I thought, okay, before the season I was like, look, this team is obviously going to go the way JJ McCarthy goes. If JJ McCarthy is good, they’re going to be good. If JJ McCarthy is bad, this team’s going to be really bad. I never expected them to be this bad. Um, just no no way with with Kevin McConnell. Um, Kevin O mess up his name. Kevin O’Connell. It’s funny. My friend did the same thing today and said McConnell as well. And I like I’m like and I I joked I said that it seems like they’re coached by Mitch McConnell right now is what it seems like in Minnesota is is what’s it what it feels like. But um everyone calls him like the the the QB whisperer and like his none of his QBs look good. Not a single one. He’s had three this season. They all look bad. Well, and this is what’s funny about teams that are losing. I noticed Chiefs fans tweeting about Andy Reid in this way, too. Like a bad team will get fans to turn on a good coach so fast. You know what I mean? Like I’m not going to lie. I just listen to a lot of sports talk radio so I dabble in KF fan and score north. Like after a Vikings like what are they saying? And it’s fans like I don’t understand why Kevin Oonnell can’t marry his system with what JJ McCarthy does well. It’s like do you guys hear your like listen to what you’re saying? He doesn’t do anything well but it’s like the fans will turn on the coach which I think is entertaining. I also laughed watching this game because it was the same crew. I think Greg Olsen and Joe Davis did the Packers last weekend too, right? So they’ve seen the Vikings two weekends in a row and Greg Olsen was saying some of the same things like why is Mike McDonald just running the clock out and kicking field goals? I don’t get it. And I think it occurred to him at some point during the game like oh it’s the same as last week. They have zero fear of Minnesota. So like they Jason Myers kicked like five field goals today. They let two minutes run down before halftime. So, for the second straight week, we got to see an opponent basically like, “This isn’t a real football game. We’re just going to run the clock and kick field goals and just let the clock expire, which I I thought was kind of a funny little wrinkle to this game after watching, you know, what the Packers basically elected to do against Minnesota last weekend.” I’ll say this too that if you’re a struggling offense and you’re down to your third quarterback, uh, who’s going to play in his first game as an undrafted free agent rookie, the recipe does not include going to Seattle and playing McDonald’s defense in Seattle right now. That is a that is a nightmare for the most veteran quarterback right now. And Brosmer is is certainly not that. That Yeah, they looked awful. I expected them to look awful in that game for that very reason. But that is a franchise that is falling on some very rough times. It does go to your point though Grant of like last year I was talking to somebody in San Francisco I think when the 49ers are set to make play the Packers or something and I was on their show and all the talk was the 49ers need to fire Kyle Shanahan and I’m like you guys hear what you’re saying? Do you hear what is coming out of your mouth? It’s like I think I still think Kevin Okonnell is a good coach. Things are going very south, very fast. But yeah, guess what? Things go bad when you don’t have a quarterback very, very fast. It just that’s the way it works in the NFL. And Minnesota’s tried with Wentz and with Osmer and with McCarthy and they don’t have one. And when you don’t have one, you’re just you’re scrap, you know, scraping rock bottom every single time in that scenario. I don’t think that’s an Okonnell thing. I don’t think he’s been great this year, but you’re just in no man’s land when you’re in that situation. May I ask you, do you think that a head needs to roll at the end of this year in Minnesota for misjudging the quarterback and how ready he was? Like does the whole organization from top to bottom just get to go like whoops, we missed? If they do, it has to be quy like everything that I have heard slash seen slash just kind of reading between the lines is that Okonnell sort of knew this of like McCarthy’s not ready. This should not be the direction that they go in. It’s kind of I think why they flirted with the Rogers thing and things like that. And it everything seems to be that Quy was the one that you know he made the the pick of JJ McCarthy and wanted to go in that direction aggressively even though he missed the entirety of last year and the only you know guy that they brought in at the time was Sam Howell which ended up being a nightmare. They traded him away because he couldn’t play and then they go with WZ and Wentz wasn’t the answer and then obvious obviously McCarthy can’t play, bro. Um, so if anything, I think it needs to be Quy, but it it it could get very ugly and very messy there very very fast in Minnesota, which Oh, that’s a shame. A too bad. Too too bad. Uh, all right. Couple things. Updated playoff picture. Packers are now 93% to make the playoffs. This is all for the New York Times simulator. 66% to win the division. So, a two-thirds chance to win the division. Uh, another thing that’s kind of cool to look at is what seed they’re most likely to get. So, number one most likely seed that the Packers were to get or number one outcome, 34% chance, a one in three chance that they get the number two seed. That is the most likely seed that they will get again per the New York Times simulator. The second most likely is 17% which is the number three seed. Next is 14% which is the number seven seed, followed by 13% which is the number one seed in a first round buy. And then you’ve got after that it’s 10% for the number six seed, 7% to miss the playoffs, 3% to get the five seed, and only a 1% chance to get the number four seed. So that’s where Green Bay’s at right now. The most likely, again, one in just over one in three chance is the number two seed. And if you look at it, about a 51% chance to get either the number two or the number three seed in a home game in uh in the first round of the playoffs. I’m no calculus teacher, but it would seem that that’s saying like we think the Packers will win the division. We have no faith in what’s going on with in the NFC East, but the Rams will probably or someone in the West will keep cooking and the Packers slide in then behind that, right? Like that would probably be the shape of that. Okay. Yeah. They’re basically saying in this case, yeah, I would say, you know, the number one seed is going to be either Seattle or LA in all likelihood. The number two seed is more likely to be Green Bay. Three is probably Philly. Four is going to be whoever wins the South. And then five, I don’t I don’t even know. Whoever loses the NFC South race somewhere between San Francisco, LA, and Seattle. And then it just kind of gets more chaotic from there. But yes, I would agree with your your back of the napkin calculus. the way these teams are playing that makes sense to me right now. Yeah. And then just really quick as well from an odds standpoint, Green Bay Packers as we’re recording this during Sunday Night Football. So if like the Broncos win big, they’re right behind Green Bay right now. So maybe they bump ahead of Green Bay. But um the Packers as of recording this are the third most likely team to win the Super Bowl. At least the third odds to win the the Super Bowl. Rams plus 425, Seahawks plus 750, Packers plus 950 in third, and then there’s a bunch of teams like right behind them. So, did you see that uh in the MVP race, not that this has, you know, anything to do with the playoffs, however, I did find it interesting that it’s Stafford is minus I think he was like minus 125 or something like that. Drake May and then you have Dak Prescott and then a one Jordan Love. So, and it’s changed too. Stafford went to plus 105 today as I’m looking at it right now. May plus 120 and then Prescott at plus,00 and then love plus,500. But really pretty firmly in fourth at Josh Allen’s at plus 1,800 and then anyone after that goes to plus 4,000 or more. So it it really seems like a twoperson race at the moment between Stafford and May, but then that next group kind of all tied together is Prescott Love and Josh Allen. Um, it’s not it’s not impossible. I don’t think it’s impossible. I I’m not saying that because I think Jordan Love like should be MVP or deserves to be MVP. I’m just saying that I think there’s been a lot of talk about Jordan this season and Vegas and the national media and most Packer fans see it and they see that he is literally firmly in an MVP conversation and he’s playing exceptionally. So, I just thought it was interesting. you know, if if everything stays status quo and like he plays good football through the like finishing fifth in the MVP race is pretty much like the worst case scenario at the moment. Like if again assuming everything stays pretty pretty normal for where we’re at right now, which is unbelievable. Like you have the the fifth best MVP basically the fifth best quarterback is, you know, for the season is what you’re saying at worst. And right now again, he kind of comes in at fourth ahead of names you may have heard of like Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes at the moment. So yeah, he’s having a pretty good season. He’s pretty good football player. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty good at the sport of football. Uh minus 140 to win the division. And then the other interesting thing is Packers at least again as recording this six-point favorites to beat those Chicago Bears this coming Sunday. Just really quick before we get to our main topic, I know we’ve talked about this Sunday and where things stand right now for a little bit here, but thoughts on Packers Bears and just anything you’re looking forward to, what you think decides the game, anything that’s on the top of your mind? I feel like I said it earlier, like I I think Caleb has, if you I’ve been watching more and more Bears football leading up to this, and Caleb has like a little bit of magic right now. Um, in just like he’s he’s making good reads. He’s he’s actually really like looking down the field and making those reads before he scramles, which is um something he wasn’t really doing. And he’s got the arm and he’s got the receivers, but he’s got the legs. So, I said it before, I think if this pass rush can contain him and take away a little bit of that like magic that he has with his legs to extend plays, um, and plus do what they’ve been doing, which is make the corner lives easier, get to the quarterback, etc. I think the Bears are going to have a little bit of a hard time because when they’re if they’re onedimensional, just running the ball, I think that’s piece of cake for the Packers defense at the moment. But, so for me, it’s pass rush v Caleb. Grant I just think it’s Jeff Hafley not to Perry I think you are correct. I will add to that to me I think this week is Jeff Hafley Ben Johnson like what is Ben Johnson scheming in the run game and how is Jeff Hafley prepared to combat that because we just saw Vic Fangio who I I think is would probably most persons pick to be the number one defensive coordinator. Like who is the one guy you would want in a playoff game to call your defense? I think a lot of people would say Vic Fangio. and they gave up 200 yard rushers and I think Philly’s personnel is better than the Packers. Like the Bears can run the ball. So, how is Jeff Hafley? Because I think Jeff Hafley his defenses over the last year and a half I think have overperformed versus the run. Um considering their talent like I where they’re strong I and I like Qu Walker and Ed Cooper, but they don’t have like they don’t have a million TJ Sllayton that they can rotate in the inside. Like I I think that’s actually one of the soccer Devonte Wyatt is gone and and he’s gone and even like he’s more of a pass rushing defensive tackle anyways. So like but that’s what I’m saying like I think Jeff Halfley has found a way to scheme up run defense even when his personnel isn’t supposed to be incredible at it. And I think that’s the story of the week. I also think the health of Quay Walker is probably really really really really big um in this game too. Interesting that we are talking defense only. Do are we just confident in this Packers offense right now to be on? No, I don’t. I mean, I I think I think it’s just a really good game. I I think is what it comes down to. I think both sides are massively intriguing. And I like the first thing I’ll say is Green Bay’s defense at home has not allowed more than 20 points or over 20 points in a game so far. Like their defense at home has been incredible. And so, yeah, it’s going to be interesting. But I I do think after seeing Chicago cut right through uh that Philly defense with their run game. Yeah. And again, no Devonte White, even if he’s not known as a run stuffer, just another body inside that you kind of need. Yeah. I’m I’m I’m interested to see what this is going to look like and if they can stop that run game first. I would just say one thing. I don’t think just I think they’ve done an unbelievable job coaching up run defense in Green Bay. I don’t just think it’s a scheme thing. I think some of the stuff setting the edge and playing with better pad level and attacking gaps and Evan Williams just flying up from safety and making plays and Javon Bullard playing in the slot as a like I don’t think people are quite giving and I know you’re starting to see it a little bit more. I I’m glad that Evan Williams is getting his flowers now. That’s great. It’s well overdue. He was one of the best safeties in football in his rookie year and he’s played even better this year. Um, Bullard in the slot. It’s not It’s not I don’t don’t get this twisted. I’m not saying he’s Charles Woodson in the slot, but what Charles Woodson was able to do in the slot was play that thing like an outside linebacker and give you another like linebacker and run defense even though that you were playing a nickel defense and could still cover everything. Bullard’s now been better in coverage in the slot, giving them really good coverage, and he’s physical enough to almost be like a modern weak side linebacker, which helps you a ton as well. I I just to that point, it’s scheme, but I think they’ve coached this up really well. And I think what they’re doing in the run game has been really impressive, but now they’ve got a huge challenge this week against Chicago. And to your point, Perry, I think Green Bay is going to have its challenges on offense as well. But we’ll be keeping an eye on if Jaden Reed and Matthew Golden come back this week as well and maybe getting some reinforcements to help that run or the the passing game. And hopefully Josh Jacobs even a little bit more healthy this week to help that run game even a little bit more as well. Yeah, Chicago’s defense forces a bunch of turnovers. So I I think the Packers offense just avoiding mistakes is going to be especially because the Bears are going to want to run the ball and limit opportunities. And when you have limited opportunities, making one big turnover, one big mistake hurts most. And that’s why that’s why that that Detroit game, it’s great to beat a rival. the the way that that game was won and the way that it was played offensively makes me have higher hopes for the rest of the year because that’s kind of the offensive performance they’ve been unable to put together for the last two years where it’s like, “Hey guys, you need to be perfect with the ball and basically score every time and execute on every fourth down and and pick up every third and one or third and two and the ball needs to be perfect on that outside shoulder on that like just every little thing like it was a very mature performance on offense and I think in order to beat the Bears especially the way they play defense, especially talking about the offense, like you need to be mature. You can’t be sloppy, otherwise they will beat you. So, last Thursday, that game against the Lions should should have Packers fans feeling better about what the Packers could or or wouldn’t do, I guess, a better way to put it, turning the ball over against Chicago. It’s not a surprise that after that New York Giants game where they had a billion in one mistakes, the last two weeks they’ve played much better football and have not beat themselves. And look, they look fantastic, you know, for the most part in both games. I know. Look at that. Yeah, I know, right? Don’t beat yourself and things get a lot easier for you. But to your point, Grant, they’re not gonna they can’t go back to beating themselves and having those turnovers and costly mistakes this week if you do. The Bears have shown really all season long, they will take advantage of that and use that to find a way to win the game. Yeah, the Packers only had three penalties for 20 yards in the Lions game. So, that’s that’s about as perfect as you’re going to get. I think should have had four for 25, but yes, we will gladly take three for 20. You know what? It’s not on the stat sheet. It’s true. Very, very true. Uh let’s get to our main event, our main topic, our uh you know, our main topic. Yeah, the meat and potatoes of the show. That’s perfect. Uh what I wanted to do today is go over a variety of different areas of this team. Quick look. Some of these are going to be very easy. Some of them are going to take maybe a little bit more to define, but look at whether these areas of the team are below our expectations for the Packers, are meeting expectations, or are exceeding expectations that we had kind of going into this season. We are now getting ready for the stretch run, hopefully going into the playoffs, and hopefully making a run into the playoffs and maybe even beyond as well. So, let’s take a look at some of these things and say, are they below expectations, meeting our expectations, or exceeding our expectations? Number one, we kind of talked about this a little bit already. Sir Jordan Love. Perry, I will start with you. Meeting, exceeding, or below expectations. Oh, interesting. Well, if my expectations were high already, can I say meeting? Absolutely. Because I’m I He’s having the season I expected him to have. Everyone had a a bit of like some heart they had some heart palpitations last season. He was injured. No part of me was ever concerned that once healthy he would he would pull it together. And here we are. Um so I think if you were one of the ones that were concerned last season that he hadn’t he’d only shown like one good season as a starter, etc. fine. He’s exceeding expectations. But to me, um this is exactly the way I thought that he would play. Uh, and yeah, that’s an easy one. I was going to say meeting too. Um, and if he, you know, lights it up and really takes his play up another level over the next month, then he could surpass, then he could exceed. But no, this is about how I feel. And it sometimes makes me laugh anytime Jordan Love has a really good game, especially in a national tele, you know, TV spot. And people will go on their shows the next be like, there’s the Jordan Love. That’s what we’ve been waiting for. And a lot of times I’m like, I feel like I I kind of see that same stuff every week. you know, it might not result in touchdowns because Josh Jacobs is running it in from the one or two or there might be a lot of drops or in the case of some of these games like the Panthers or the Viking like they just didn’t have that many possessions the Giants game so it doesn’t amount in counting stats but even in his best games people go there it is now we’ve seen it like he actually kind of looks like the same player most weeks to me it just doesn’t always result in huge you know highlights or big time goddy numbers so I’ve been very pleased with the way he’s played I would say exceed especially considering he’s worked through a couple different injuries just been badass fast and impressive. Aaron Rogers has had some pretty incredible seasons obviously in Green Bay. Um his very lowest interception rates in 2018 he had a 3% inter.3% interception rate.7 in 2019.8 in 2021. Even Aaron Rogers career interception rate is at 1.4% who again is the most riskaverse quarterback in the history of the the world is is basically where it’s at. Uh Jordan Love so far this year is at8% interception percentage. Like he has done an unbelievable job taking care of the football. 19 touchdowns, three interceptions. 67% completion percentage is a 3.9% jump over a year ago. Almost a 3% jump of where he was at in 2023. To me, like I had high expectations. I think he’s it’s not by a ton, but he’s even exceeding some of the expectations I had for him. I I I think almost like expecting Jordan Love to go 20 at this point of the year, 67% completion percentage, 2,800 yards, 19 touchdowns, three picks, and like all the advanced metrics, just being in love with him and fourth in the MVP like race right now, at least from a betting standpoint. That that still has to be somewhere again slightly above my expectations for him going into the year. He’s been fantastic and if he continues to play this way, it’s it’s for sure going to exceed my expectations. Well, and I think important context, too, is when we grade some of these other groups, like I think he’s at times had to be the identity or the strength of the offense. You know what I mean? And I I think that gets factored into the So, let’s move on to the other groups, we can, you know, add that into the conversation. And I think that’s a very important one. I we’re not going to necessarily go position by position. I have these a little bit interesting. That one I I wanted to talk about Jordan first. Number two, the running game. So, this is all-encompassing. running game as a whole. It’s not just Josh Jacobs. It’s Wilson. It’s Brooks. It’s Marshon Lloyd or the lack thereof. It’s the run blocking up front. It’s it’s all of the run game in all-encompassing. So, Grant, you get to start on this one. Hey friends, it’s time to get our sleeper picks in for week 13 already. We’re going Monday Night Football. You know me, these are the type of games that I love getting sleeper picks in for. New England and New York. We’ve got a really good team in New England against a not so great but very entertaining team in the New York Giants. This isn’t some big heavyweight fight. This is just h it’s football, right? And so let’s get our sleeper picks in and make it a little bit more fun. I’m going Stefan Diggs more than 47 and a half receiving yards and Trevon Henderson more than 69 and a half rushing yards against the Giants defense that, let’s be honest, isn’t that great. Also, Jackson Dart, more than 207 a half passing yards against New England’s defense. He’s going to have to throw his way into it just like we’ve seen Jameus Winston try to do lately. Jackson Dart with his first game back, he’s going to go more than 27 and a half passing yards in this game. Either way, you can choose your own adventure. Get your picks in over on Sleeper. And the best part is that you can get a 100% match up to $100 by utilizing code pack a day. Again, a 100% match up to $100 by utilizing code pack a day. Terms and conditions apply. See sleeper for details. What are you waiting for? They’re available in over 25 states nationwide. So, get those sleeper picks in right now. Wait, wait, it’s meet exceed or what would the other term be? Below expectations. Low. It would be below. it would be below what I expected. And I I think the Vikings game is maybe a really good example of this. And the Bengals game maybe too. And I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I felt like we came away from both of those games thinking there we go. There they ran the football. Or Matt Laflur, you know, after the Vikings game like I’ve never called that many run plays in a row. It was just great. And then I look at the stats, it’s like three and a half yards a carry. Like they didn’t even run the ball that well in the games where like those were the good running games. So even in those games, they haven’t lit it up. Um, so below my expectations, which is, you know, frustrating considering Josh Jacobs has mostly been available and they had some turmoil on the offensive line early, but it’s not like they’ve lost a huge key player for the season or anything. So, I’ll say below expectations. PG. Yeah, I think I mean the answer is certainly below. Um, again, compared to last season, which maybe we shouldn’t be doing, but I guess that’s my only comparison point, which is like the offense like was the run game was the offense. Yeah. And and there were games where like it was just run run. Like just absolutely mauling people on the ground and you’re like, “Oh, hell yeah.” Like that’s I guess that’s what this team is going to be. And that’s certainly what they leaned on. Now, am I glad that my microphone has decided doesn’t want to work today. Um, am I glad that they can lean on Jordan this season instead of 100%. But it doesn’t look the same when they do decide to run the ball. And certainly in the Lions game, one of my biggest takeaways was like, “Wow, they finally got like multiple explosive plays on the ground.” I mean, that was like the first time all season that I’ve seen Josh Jacob rip over 10 yards a carry on multiple runs. So, it’s certainly been below. Hope it changes, but hard to say anything else. Yeah, I’m there with you. Uh Jacobs has been, I just think, a tad below where he was a season ago. Probably most part due to the run blocking up front. Getting nothing out of Marshon Lloyd is a massive disappointment. The the fact that he’s been hurt all year. Um Wilson maybe slightly above my expectations. Brooks right about what I expected. The run blocking way worse than I expected. Overall in totality, a worse worse running game than I wanted. Uh, wide receivers again, just as a group, just wide receivers. Are they at, below, or exceeding expectations? So, we’re not going position by position. We’re not always. You’ll see. There’s there’s no method to my madness. I just these are categories I wanted to go over. Um, I guess they’re at they meet expectations. Um, the Packers offensive weapon group has been what it is. They have really good games where Grant said they look mature. Um, and then they have some games where they have bricks for hands and it’s just been kind of up and down. I think individual players I could certainly point to as like exceed you know we could do the same for for each one. Um, but it’s certainly been, I think, still a bit of a inconsistent roller coaster ride. And you would hope that some of these guys are in year three, year four, um, looking for contracts. Hint hint. Um, and they’re not always reliable. So, that’s where they’ve been. That’s where they still are. Great. I would say on the season, maybe slightly below. If you’re just asking about the last two weeks, I’d maybe say a little exceed. It’s funny. Ask me, you know, ask me next week or ask, you know, a month ago. Like, it just it depends. Um, Dantavian Wix doing that certainly helps. And Christian Watson coming back and looking exactly like the player they drafted him to be. Certainly helps. I think big picture this year, my hope was maybe for one or two of these guys to really break out and be like, “Wow, he took a big leap.” And I don’t think any of them have done that. So, it’s it’s hard for me to say anybody has exceeded expectations. But I think putting a little extra weight maybe on the last few weeks, I would say meet I would say meet expectations. I would probably go slightly. I will say I think Christian has exceeded any of my possible expectations for him coming back from injury. Like never in a million years did I just expect him like game one look like the best version of Christian Watson we’ve seen yet, which is really fun and I’m really excited about. And then you get to the Jaden Reed like injury conversation which just sucks. It’s not his fault, but not having Jaden Reed is a bummer. that again that’s not a meets or below expectations. It’s just an injury sort of thing. And then um everyone else though I would say is maybe just a tad below my expectations but I think part of that is due to the nature of having this many wide receivers if we kind of which we kind of knew going in. So I think if you average everything out you guys are probably right where it’s probably a closer to meets. I would probably lean a little bit more towards below expectations, but I’ll let the two of you win on that one and say meets expectations. Was that a high five or was that a you have a Yes, I was high-fiving Perry for us being correct and you submitting to our takes. Sorry, I was raising your hand like I have a question like I like you can just speak my friend. You don’t No, I I know I’ I’ve never hesitated to just turn my mic on and go. So, no, I was That is true. Let’s go to the defensive side. We’re going pass rush here. So, just pass rush in general meets, exceeds, or below expectations. It’s a really difficult one. It’s a really difficult one. I mean, I shoot, I’ll go uh below my expectations. And that has nothing to do with Michael Parsons. He’s been everything you could have asked for and more. It’s like other guys should be having more big moments and they really haven’t. And it looked early on like like they would like oh here’s Rashan Gary in the best place you know you know ever in his career to to really contribute and it just hasn’t worked out that way down the stretch. I think Anik Bari is Bari is maybe the perfect player to be like he’s the exact player that you think he is and hope he like he just is him. Um but I think the rest of the unit is probably below expectations because I expected more considering they’re playing with Michael Parsons. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. What is What is Rashan Gary at on the season right now? I I don’t I don’t I think is where he’s at. Something like that. Seven. Okay. I mean, he like one of those is not blocked. Like three of them were like picking up the pieces from a Micah Parson’s pressure. We’re nitpicking now. Picking up the pieces from a Micah Parson’s pressure is exactly what Grant is talking about, though. That’s what he wants. No, no, no. It’s it’s I think what Grant’s saying is you’re being single blocked on the other side because Micah Parsons is getting triple teamed. I expect you to win those one-on-one matchups consistently, not just getting a sack because Micah forced him your way and you cleaned it up. Yeah. A quick pressure like beat your guy right away and go make a play. I’m I’m not trying to I’m not trying to be contrarian by the way. I I don’t know. I when minutes ago when I’m like, “Oh, I wonder what I’ll say for pass rush.” That’ll be below expectations. And it’s again, it’s nothing to do with Micah. I just I I don’t know. How much does Micah not weigh out in you’re looking at this group as a whole though? Like they finally have a one if you want to look at it that way and he’s absolutely exceeding expectations. No part of me thought that he would have 10 sacks before Thanksgiving. Okay. Um that’s fair. That’s fair. I feel like I I feel like my take is wrong now. Go for it. Hey, there’s We’re in a safe space. Everyone’s going to comment on it and make it a nots safe space, but right now I don’t care. I don’t read the comments. Um I I feel like I mean this was their weakness last season. Like this was fully their defense’s weakness. They got exploited like nobody’s business and now you can say that it’s a strength. So if you want to go into the individual players, for sure there are guys to talk about, but we’ve seen a legitimate jump from LVN before he got hurt, which is something we really wanted to see. and we saw it and we’re like we’re all sitting here hoping he comes back because he was that impactful that we miss him and then you get the best second best respect to Miles Garrett pass rusher in the league who’s doing exactly what you traded him for and now that contract looks amazing and the unit as a whole is performing well. I like the way Jeff Hafley calls pressures. I like his, you know, I loved that Xavier McKini Blitz, right? He he gets to do really fun stuff. It feels like the playbook is open for him. So people are scared of the Packers pass rush and they should be exceeded expectations. In my opinion, I probably fall somewhere in the middle of both of you. I have a tough time saying it’s like below expectations simply based on how Micah is playing. I think in my in I think a lot of people’s like dream scenarios. We had this vision of like holy hell Micah, Gary, LVN, Devonte Wyatt all on the field at the same time. You can’t block all these guys. everyone else is going to get one-on- ones and it’s just going to be this torture chamber of pressure. Look the hell out NFL. It’s going to be similar to, you know, Strahan and Kiwanuka and and Yumorya and who is the fourth one? Did I say Tuck? Tuck. All right. So, like it’s going to be something akin to that. And I think partly due to, you know, Wyatt missing some time due to injury, LVN missing time due to injury. I think Rashan Garry has been below my expectations for the number two rusher that I had for him going into the year. And then Mike has just been insane. So, and I also think like little things like Warren Brinson’s been better than I expected. Kobe Wooden Kobe Wooden more in a run stuffing standpoint, but even still on the whole better than I expected. Um, again, you get to enough of this where and and I think Inigbari is having a much better year this year than he did a season ago. So, I I would probably say it’s it’s coming closer to I think meeting sound expectations, but it’s it’s a very nuanced conversation. That’s tough to put all in one group, which is kind of why I wanted to do it that way. Haha. I know. All right, we’re we’re going to even out on Amit’s expectations for uh for our pass rushers. How about run defense? I’ll I’ll start. I’m just We talked about earlier. To me, the run defense is exceeding my expectations. maybe meeting based on what we saw a year ago, but like to to Grant’s point, if you look at it on paper, you’re like gh I’m not sure. You know, two kind of undersized linebackers. You lose Kenny Clark and Kobe Wooden and Devonte Wyatt on the inside are going to have to do your heavy lifting on the interior. There was all there was all the talk of is can Micah be a good run defender or not? And like just they’ve they’ve answered the I know there was a couple hiccups here and there. The Carolina game was a disappointment, but on the whole, it’s it’s probably exceeds expectations, especially after losing Kenny. I agree. I think that’s where I land, too. I’m with you on that. I think just the work that they’ve done against Jir Gibbs in two games is like that’s that’s enough for me because I I know no one cares about my fantasy team, but I have J I have one fantasy team and Jir Gibbs is on it, so I watch him like a Hawk every week. in a lot of these games, even when the Lions aren’t playing well. It’s just like that dude touches the ball and good things happen, even if no one else on the team is doing anything, like he’s unbelievable. And the Packers in two games now this year have they haven’t snuffed him out completely, but like they’ve just kind of they’ve made him not a weapon, which has been really impressive. Um, and I think the game maybe against the Panthers, but the Giants game probably even more so, Andy and Perry and Halfley talked about it that week. He’s like, “Yeah, we gave up, you know, a couple runs a carry, but their real issue is not getting off the field on third and long and not catching interceptions that hit him in the hands.” So, even in the games where they’ve given up some yardage on the ground, I think their bigger issues have been elsewhere. So, yeah, exceeded expectations. I I maybe think it’s the thing that impresses me most about Jeff Halfley and the way that he coordinates defenses relative especially to the last couple guys the Packers have had. Fair coverage. Just pure pass coverage. Oh boy. To be honest, yeah, absolutely. I think exceeds. And I say that only because I had really low expectations. Like I looked at this quarterback group going into the season and I know nothing about Nate Hobbs, so I I have no expectations of you. You’re you’re at a net neutral. He’s he was obviously not good. Um and I thought this is going to be the Packers’s weakness. I mean, this is going to be what gets them killed. Like, maybe they, you know, get a couple sacks, maybe they um are are great on the ground, but like if you go up against like really good, you know, one twos, um they’re going to struggle and they haven’t. Um they’ve obviously given up yardage through the air, but they are excellent at not allowing the big play. um they get, you know, they they like I said, like Nixon has had like people have a lot of opinions on Nixon, obviously an up and down season. In my opinion, he’s he’s not a CB1. Um so he’s playing like he I expected him to and also has had some really excellent moments. Um and the safeties are incredible and they clean up enough that the corners can’t do in my opinion. And this is a lot on Jeff Hafley, I think, too. Um but definitely playing better. I thought this was going to be a way way bigger like glaring hole going into the season than it has been. I mean, I’ll I’ll piggyback off that first. Four of the five defensive backs who are playing regularly are fantastic. however, whatever expectations were. I mean, maybe Fantastic is slightly strong for TV, but just maybe on the tackle this past week, but overall on the whole from a peer coverage, if we’re just talking coverage standpoint, he’s been freaking fantastic and has certainly exceeded expectations, at least for me, and I was very high on Carrington Valentine. Javon Bullard’s playing amazing. Evan Williams is playing amazing. Xavier McKenna is playing extremely well. Maybe not quite to the level of a year ago, but he’s still playing really, really good football. And Keshan’s about where I would have expected him to be. Um Nate Hobbs was a real bummer the way that he played. I still think there’s a better version of him than what we’ve seen so far. I think injuries played a little bit of a piece of that. But on the whole, I would probably be somewhere between meets and exceeds. But and again, I want to be very clear here to people like you think they’re one of the best coverage. No, I’m not saying that. But like based on expectations going into the year, I’m I’m maybe more leaning towards Perry’s side, but at very worst, it’s a meets expectations for me. Uh, agree completely. I don’t know what the advanced numbers say and I do not watch the all 22. In fact, I mock it with my callers calling it the old 22 because there’s a caller who is way in the Northwoods and just likes to make fun of things. Oh, the old 22. So, I don’t know. But I I just feel like Keshan Nixon is better than most Packers fans would tell you. I think he’s been okay and he been pretty good in some moments and then he gives up one completion. It’s like well there’s Nick Nixon like well corners do give up completions sometimes. So I would yeah meets with the occasional exceed and I think the my favorite part of the coverage unit is it’s kind of working like it’s supposed to. It’s like yeah if the pass rush gets home and gets the ball out quickly covers up for some of that stuff and I think that’s exactly how it’s gone. So I would say meets with an occasional exceed. I’m with Andy. I talked to Aaron Negler about this earlier this week of like speaking of expectations of you know you get the the schedule for the first time and you see it and it’s like oh yeah I think they’re going to go like somewhere between 11 and six and 12 and five. Okay, but are you going to be okay when they lose those five or six games that you expected them to lose? No, we’re going to freak out entirely. But like you know but then so can we can we not panic until they get to like the sixth or seventh loss which is you know then below your expectations going into the year. No, we’re going to we’re going to freak out and panic about everything. It’s the same thing in like pass defense of like you do realize in a normal NFL game you’re going to give up about 225 yards at minimum in passing yardage. So like let’s divvy out those two 200 to 225 yards that everyone gives up in every game first. And like once once we get past that we can start talking about all right this stuff is going poorly. And for the most part again like you’re saying about Keshan like yeah you’re as a corner in the NFL guess what you’re going to give up some completions. There’s going to be 220ish yards of air yards every single game and those are going to go against somebody. It’s not going to be perfect every play. So, no, I I think the the defensive backs, the coverage as a whole is probably closer to exceeds than anything else for me. Well, and there was a play in the Steelers game that I think really he got picked on in the first half by Aaron Rogers, right? And everyone was mad about Keshan Nixon because the Packers are losing, but there was a play that I think really encapsulates this and sometimes as football fans, we just need to be a little bit better watching corners, myself included. We’re like Aaron Rogers is falling away. He’s getting sacked and he throws up a prayer and it lands like eight yards behind whatever receiver was running a boundary route. Nixon, it was behind. It was inside. It was a prayer. It was a horrible throw but it was behind him. So the receiver turns around to try to look and it’s nowhere close. So Keshan Nixon gets flagged because why would Keshan Nixon? He’s covering the route where the ball’s supposed to go. Yeah. And like but as a corner in the NFL, you get flagged there and everyone’s like, “Oh, there’s Keshan Nixon again.” Like I just think that’s such a hard position to play and it’s so scrutinized when we’re watching. So I I’m not saying that he’s Derell Rivas, but I think he’s been pretty darn good and the units held up their end of the bargain defensively. All right, next up, special teams. I’ll go first. Special teams is absolutely meeting my abysmal expectations that I had going into the year. I said to Aaron Negler also, I’m like, they’re going to be terrible. And I’m going to assume that they’re going to be terrible every year until I get to the end of the year, and you can prove to me statistically and analytically that they weren’t terrible, and that they didn’t blow us a playoff game in some way, shape, or form. So, this is exactly meeting my Packers special teams expectations that I go in with pretty much every single year. Yeah, I couldn’t have said it better. Yeah. If anything, maybe slightly below just because I at least thought they had a kicker. But um but maybe that gets evened out by the fact that Whan’s been fantastic. So yeah, I I just the first half of the Lions game was ghastly. Like just talk about field position. Just talking about field position. like why is McManis kicking the I understand maybe every once in a while it happens like that he just kept kicking it into the end zone and the average starting field position in the first half was and then it’s just the holding penalties on all these kickoffs and punts it’s like okay so there’s 10 yards of field position or if there’s a return which there probably isn’t but if there is like there’s 15 20 yards of field position down the tubes it’s like that’s the frustrating thing to me they can field punts and kicks now and I think McManis should be good so they can make kicks in their punter rocks but we’re just talking about massive swats of field position that they’re just leaking every week and it drives me nuts. But again, same. I expected nothing and they’re meeting those expectations. I I can’t I can’t stand one more like opening kick return that’s got a penalty on it or in the case of the Philadelphia Eagles game, a fumble. Yes, it was a helmet to helmet and we recovered, but still like can you get through the first play? Can you get through the very first play of the game without having some stupid mistake? That would be maybe a step in the the right direction moving forward. But they’ve they’ve met expectations. My crappy expectations for them. All right, a few more then we’ll get out of here. Uh, coaching meets, exceeds, or below expectations. I I don’t know where to go with this one. I don’t know. That’s so broad, Andy. Like, is that Matt Lafur? Matt Laf. I was gonna say, is that position coach if Rich Versace is in there? Well, well, we’ll say Matt Laflur. Okay. Ultimately, as he would first say, it falls on me first. So, starts with me. Do you want to take this one first or would you like It feels like a good Grant one. Sure. I think it would probably He would probably be beneath my expectations at this point, but it’s very close. And I think there’s a great chance that if they play great football down the stretch that he will be right there or exceeding my expectations. I just think there’s been some weird like fourth down stuff. The two-minute’s been horrible in a couple of moments, which just scares me because you need that stuff in the play. You need to be good in the two-minute in the playoffs if you ever want to win multiple playoff games. Um there there were some things that worried me last year with Matt Laflur that I just kind of chocked up to being a fluke. Like he had a bad year the same way that a hitter in baseball has a bad year. Like it can happen. Um but a lot of the same fourth down stuff, especially early was there. Um he’s been conservative in spots, but I also try to give him a little bit of grace there because when your wide receivers can’t catch or you can’t run, like you that play sheet can just be limited. Cleveland, that game being the best example. Um but I but I I think he would be beneath my expectations because I came into this year thinking he’s a really really good co and I still think he’s a really good coach. So beneath but that’s more a testament to him and I and I think it’s really close. I’ll just go really quick. I would tend to agree with Grant, but say that it’s trending upwards and if it, as Grant said, if it continues to play out the rest of the year, I would say it’s it’s going to be meets expectations for me. Um, okay. I my first thought when you asked this question was I feel like it’s unfair to answer this now. Um, like I I I feel like a lot there’s a lot of season left. Quit dodging the question, Perry. Packers. No, I refuse. and and the Packers have like certain expectations for the the the way the rest of the season is going to go. And I think this answer goes like one like very a few different directions. If the Packers make the Super Bowl this year, like we’re all saying, “Yeah, they exceeded our expectations.” This is this this is a very smart answer. Incomplete is probably the best way to grade this, right? the the season is incomplete and like yeah, we can we can judge what we’ve seen off of Matt Florur so far, which I I think I agree. It’s a it’s a meets like he’s still an excellent head coach. Um still really don’t want him to go anywhere. Um but it can turn depending on the way the season ends. You okay with that, Grant? Incomplete? That wouldn’t fly in sports talk radio, but that’s because it’s a ridiculous medium. Um and and the rules is much more, you know, prestigious, much more nuanced and prestigious. Um it’s funny to me how much that win over the Lions did for Matt Laflur because everyone was circling and then they went and it’s not that Matt Lafford didn’t call a good game, but again, we watch his team every week and it’s like, oh, their receivers caught the balls. You know what I mean? Like I think people were talking about it because he was aggressive. That’s the only reason. And like they don’t want to hear the nuance of like you didn’t need to be aggressive in the Vikings game to win that one. It wasn’t necessary. Nobody likes that. Everyone likes the shiny flashy. He went for it on fourth down and he did and it worked. You’re not aggressive in that game. Dan Campbell and he’s getting fried for it because of the work. Like that’s why I mean like this like whole like he’s not aggressive enough conversation which I’ve obviously also had on my own podcast because everyone needs to talk about it. I view it as this like very shiny flashy thing and it’s not actually like what makes a good coach a good coach. I think what makes a good coach and this is why I actually like the Vikings game is all of your decisions from the opening kick to the end of the game made sense and were connected and followed a general like this is our plan of attack today to win this game. If you want to kick a lot of field goals, go nuts. If they make sense and then you make all the other decisions in the game based around that, right? Like where coaches get in trouble is, well, I think I need to be aggressive here. I think I need to like No, do whatever you want to do. You can be super passive on fourth down and I’ll I’ll find a way to get behind it if I think it’s it’s part of a bigger strategy that works. So, I’m with you. Like, I don’t think aggression for the sake of aggression is good. I also think, you know, talking heads love to talk about, oh, that that took some balls. Well, yeah, it worked. You know what I mean? Like Wix lost a shoe and went up and got a ball and Jordan loved, you know, put the ball up and gave him a chance. So, I don’t know. The coaching conversations can get a little ridiculous, but that’s why it’s it’s fun. I also like that. That’s what makes this world kind of work, and I enjoy it. All right. I have a few quick ones that I think will go very fast. Uh, you’re not allowed to say incomplete on this one, Perry, because I know it’s incomplete in totality, but for what your expectations would have been for this draft class so far, is this draft class meeting, exceeding, or falling below expectations? That’s it’s it’s below tough below. It’s Matthew Golden has not done anything of real substance as of yet. I don’t think that’s his fault, but entirely, but he has not done anything of substance. Belton is starting now, which is big, but he has also struggled the last two games. It is very much a work in progress. Savon Williams is your kick returner. He gave you one really massive play against the Giants, but he’s not exactly been this like consistent wide or anything like that. Baron Serell is a nice rotational piece. I’m excited about Warren Brinson. Colin Oliver hasn’t played. John Williams hasn’t played. They’ve been both out injured the entire year. Um Michael Robinson is no longer on the team. So to me, it is at this point below expectations with obviously enough runway for the foreseeable future that this could still be a great draft class with a starting wide receiver, starting guard, starting defensive tackle. Um, you know, it’s, you know, probably even more than that potentially, but to me right now it’s below expectations. Okay, for those uh for those who can’t see Perry on video, she’s very much a green and loves my take on it. Yeah, I do. Grant. Yeah, I I cosign with all that. That’s probably the correct answer. Yeah. I mean, we talked about the the entire earlier when we did the pass catchers wide receiver. We even bring up Matthew Golden. I don’t think I don’t think he was mentioned by any of us. He hasn’t he hasn’t done anything yet. And I I think what I was going to say before Andy cut me off was that I think it’s very hard to judge this draft class. We know that when you’re No, let me finish. No, you’re not allowed to finish because the majority of the way you’re judging this draft class is on your first round pick. Like, let’s be honest, everyone after the first round gets enough runway that you’re not really judging them as their as a rookie. What you’re judging is your first round pick and our first round pick hasn’t done anything. So, he was drafted with high expectations. he’s been below those expectations and that would have been my answer. But if if all if like Belton was like amazing at starting guard right now and Savon Williams was doing great stuff and Baron Surell and others were like making up for it, then you could get by with maybe Golden as much in their nuts. Yeah. If if if the Packers have a starting right guard, that’s really going to move the needle. It it would like it would be amazing right now if they had a starting right guard. That would fix a lot of problems right now. That’d be honestly way way more important than getting anything out of Golden to be honest. I was making fun of you now. I’m making fun of you. My favorite rookie moment so far this year other than the Savon Williams catch was listening to the Paul Allen call. I listened to some of the game on KF fan because we were deer hunting two weekends ago and when Warren Brinen got that half sack. Paul Allen he called something like you know and McCarthy goes down and he’s sacked by Warren Brinen and then he paused. He goes Warren Brinson like he was mad like he this is the first time he’s ever read this name in his life. That’s my favorite rookie class moment. this year and it’s basically a garbage time throwaway sack. So the the best moment of the rookie class was Matthew Golden being selected and that was still one of the greatest moments of the year. So that that at least give us that if nothing else. Uh free agency class is below expectations. We don’t need to have a conversation. Aaron Banks, Nate Hobbs, and even their two flyers, Micole Hardman and Isaiah Simmons were complete nothings. They got cut before Yeah. Not on the team. Got cut before the start of the season. So their flyers didn’t work. Their big time free agent didn’t work at least to the extent that they wanted him to. although he’s playing better and Nate Hobbs has been terrible. So, it’s easy below expectations. Yep. No notes. All right. Uh, the Micah Parsons trade as a whole. Exceeded expectations. What do you mean? Absolutely. Just Hey, if we’re going to knock the obviousness of the free agency class, we’ll give the praise as well. Like, this Micah Parsons trade could not have gone any better than what anyone would have expected it to so far. I like it even more now that another team in the NFL gave up the same amount of draft compensation for a corner. For a corner, Andy, like they got Micah Parsons for the same price the Colts paid to get Sauce Gardner, who I like, but Andy, he’s a he’s a corner and the Packers got him for that price. So, I think it’s only aged better is the and he’s not the level of corner that Micah is as a defensive end either, which also does not help that. So, last but not least, final one, then we’re going to get out of here. For real, for real. The Green Bay Packers. Have they met, exceeded, or fallen below expectations so far? You’re not allowed to go incomplete. You left this one for the end. Grant, what do you think? Have the Packers met, exceeded, or gone below expectations. Uh, I I think they’ve met. I thank God we’re doing this after this Detroit game because it’s such a just a useful bit of data. I think they’ve met expectations. They’ve had really high highs and a couple low lows and it all balances out to I don’t know I don’t remember the preseason window or what I picked but they’re they’re about on pace for that. So I would say bet they’ve met expectations. I agree with Grant. Been a little bit of a roller coaster. Some games have been a slog. Some games have been amazing. when they are playing at their best, they are unbelievable. When they’re not on, they are brutal to watch. Um, if they make a run for it, great. Um, but we’re only allowed to judge so far this season. I would love to agree with both of you, but I think if we’re being honest, this one’s to be incomplete. Like, we don’t know what this uh It’s a meets expectation so far with obviously a large TBD depending on what happens the rest of this year. I agree with both of you very very much. They have they’re 83 and one. They’re in the thick of it. Everything is within their their destiny from here on out. They hold their their destiny in their old hand their own hands. So, yeah, they’re meeting expectations so far. Could they have done a little bit better? Yes. Could it have been worse? Yes. It’s it’s meeting so far. If you would asked me two weeks ago, I’d probably say slightly below. Again, that Detroit win is is doing yman’s work in so many different conversations right now. Like, that’s a that’s a very loadbearing win for podcasts like this. So, I’m glad we talked about that this week and not last week. 83 in1 is better than 63 in one. I do agree. It does look it does look better. But yes, the the Detroit wins look look very very good. All right, that’s all I got. Final thoughts. Oh, here just to just to uh recap it really quick. We’ve got Jordan Love meets to exceeds running game below wide receivers below to meets expectations somewhere in that range. protection meets, pass rush meets, run defense exceeds, coverage meets to exceeds, special teams meets, Matt meets in a bad way. Uh, Matt Lafleur incomplete, draft class below, free agency class below, Micah Parsons exceeds, Green Bay Packers meets. Little little mixed bag and it feels about right. Feels about right. I’d have it no other way. Yeah, exactly. Grants, what do you got? Final thoughts, plugs, anything you want to say on the way out? No, not much. I was off the radio for four days, which is just an unbelievable feeling. Uh, I just don’t have to be thinking about what I’m going to say for two hours, but I’m excited to be back this week. Um, lots of Packers talk. We just get to kind of revel in that Thanksgiving win and what comes next and look at the final stretch. So, my radio program is on 4 to 6 on a couple affiliates around the state. I would just recommend you go to my Twitter account, Wisco Grant. It’s all right there. Um, and then the show streams on the same places that every show streams. So, uh, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. So, that’s it. Go give him a follow. Perry, what about you? Same as Grant. Follow me on Twitter. Perry Goldstein. Uh, Maggie and I are packs what she said over on Twitter, Blue Sky, and YouTube. Uh, YouTube is really where you can find most of our content, all of our content. And, uh, we’ll be back for a Bears preview in a couple days. cannot wait. Follow her at Perry Goldstein, him at Wesco Grant, me at Andyherman NFL. Appreciate you guys joining us today. I’ll be back tomorrow pack or today as you’re listening to this packet live with Mike Wall and then uh Tuesday morning with Mike as well. So make sure to check that out. We will see you guys all very very soon. But until next time and as always, go PCO. Go PCo.

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