The Royals, D-backs, and Buster Olney’s wild trade idea | Kansas City Royals Podcast

The Royals, D-backs, and Buster Olney’s wild trade idea | Kansas City Royals Podcast

Buster only had an interesting hypothetical trade earlier today. Who was involved in it? We’ll tell you in this edition of Locked on Royals. You are Locked on Royals, your daily Kansas City Royals podcast, part of the Locked On podcast network. Your team every day. You are tuning in to another edition of Locked On Royals and the Locked On Network. I’m your host, Jack Johnson, and you can find me on Twitter at johnnyj_15. That is jhnyj_15. And you can listen to us on wherever you download your podcast. That can be Spotify, Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, Google Podcast, Odyssey, and YouTube. Just be sure to hit that follow button and subscribe. For you first-time listeners wondering what to expect from this channel, we bring you episodes Monday through Friday, 30 minute episodes in length. But beginning on December 15th, we’ll enter a little bit of our off season or personal offseason, I should say. So, instead of five episodes a week, we’re going to be dropping down to three episodes a week. Before we dive into segment number one, want to tell you that today’s show is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new customers can bet just $5. And if your bet wins, you’ll get $300 in bonus bets to use across the app. So, download the FanDuel app today. wanted to almost make this first segment a little bit of a a half and half, if you will. I I was fully expecting to go into this first segment talking about a hypothetical trade that Buster Only had, but I want to tie in another part to this uh that recently popped into my mind, you know, minutes before I started recording this podcast after the Red Sox acquired yet another starter, which could mean that a Boston Kansas City trade for Jiren Duran or William Brayu, Cole Reagan’s, Chris Buitch, Noah Cameron, whoever that might be is getting increasingly less likely. So, I want to split this half and half because we wanted to dive into the Buster Only talk. It’s what I teased, you know, the opening monologue with. We’ll start with that here. So, you know, Buster Only went on a podcast with Paul Hembo. You’ve probably heard him a lot on ESPN before. It’s a very good podcast and I for one am always intrigued when there’s a baseball guest like Buster Only on. And they were going over a possible landing spot for Catel Marte. Catel Marte coming off a another phenomenal season in Arizona, but it feels that there is some chance that Arizona moves him this off season for controllable starting pitching. You’ve heard us say that many times before involving the Royals in their controllable starting pitching. Catel Marte though is maybe the most productive bat that any team out there could get through trade. There are other guys in free agency aka Kyle Tucker, Cody Bellinger, that are great in their own ways and we know they’re going to make a lot of money, but on the trade market, I would put Gatel Marte ahead of Jiren Durant when you’re talking about offensive threats. I mean, Gatel Marte has been some kind of player the last, you know, three to four seasons and especially in these last two. The push back would be he’s 32 years old. He’s making a lot of money on a contract, though not backbreaking by any means. I mean, the Royals could easily afford his contract if they went this route that Buster only was suggesting. And so, the first, you know, hypothetical trade was involving the Red Sox actually sending Jiren Durant and a prospect to Arizona for Catel Marte. And Buster Oi, who’s covered baseball furry, long, long time for ESPN says, I’d counter it with this. How about the Royals sending Cole Reagan’s to Arizona for Catel Marte? And it wouldn’t be a swap, you know, of players there. wouldn’t be a one for one. There would be more pieces involved. But that was maybe the first deal that I thought depending on what the return would be where Kansas City would have to strongly consider the return there. You know, Cole Reagan’s feels off the table for Boston because you are facing Boston and the American League wildcard picture and in October in general, sending your ace, your number one, even if it was Jiren Durant and a couple other pieces, I’m not sure you would feel 100% confident in what you’d be getting because you’d be sending away such a top level arm in your rotation and an arm honestly that I don’t believe they can replicate with who they have on the roster. But Catel Marte and potentially more pieces there, but you are looking at a bat that can be your second best hitter and it not really be that close. And that’s including how great Vinnie Pascantino’s been, how great Mike Garcia has been. I understand Gatel Marte is a second baseman. He can bounce around a little bit. You are talking about adding someone to this lineup, whether it be the top or the middle, that would drastically change the offensive production. It’s just one player, but he’s the best offensive threat you would get uh if this hypothetical trade was to be pursued by the Royals. It’s just also a reporter bringing up a fun hypothetical and a potential landing spot. And what I can feel excited by is that the Royals have been brought up in so many hypothetical trades at this point with bigname players. There has to be this sense that the Royals are holding out for a big return like that. Now, I’d still have my hesitancy for moving Cole Reagan’s because, as I just mentioned, I don’t see a world in which Chris Bubich or Noah Cameron becomes your number one. I’ve said before, if you trade Noah Cameron, Chris Bubich and Ryan Burgerer can pick up that production. You trade Bubich, Cameron and Bert and Colet can do that. you trade Reagan’s, there’s nobody that could, you know, take over that type of of production assuming that Cole Reagan is going to be healthy for the entirety of 2026, which you’re banking on. You don’t go into each and every year saying, “Well, you know, he could get hurt or this guy might not be healthy.” You’ve got a track record for sure, but GMs don’t go into the season saying, “Well, we need to have our our backup for Cole Reagan in case he’s not healthy.” You want to have starting pitching depth, but you’re also counting on your team to have its best players come through. And Cole Reagan is one of the best players on this roster when he’s healthy. But if Kel Catel Marte and maybe an arm or two came back in in a deal like this, man, I feel you’d really have to think long and hard there. I understand Gatel Marte’s 32, but last year he showed no signs of slowing down. There was maybe the the clubhouse concerns. I know that came up very late in the season, but then it was uh shot down rather quickly by the entire coaching staff. We would see though, and I’m still not 100% convinced Arizona would move Catel Marte either. We have so many trade targets out there and trade candidates that just don’t seem like they are going to be moved at the end of the day. Like there’s big names out there, but all of those teams can float the name out. It doesn’t mean that they are 100% going to be moving somebody because I feel that with a guy like Cattel Marte, a guy like Cole Reagan, they’re both on teams that expect to compete in 2026. So, if you’re going to move those guys, you better be getting a significant return. And that leads me to the second part of this opening segment, which is what I wanted to tie in here. After Boston acquired three players from Pittsburgh and sent over the password, we’ll just call him that for his nickname, Garcia. and another arm to a Pirates team that’s trying to rebuild a little bit. And I saw some people in my comment section on Twitter and also on YouTube frustrated that the Royals just haven’t made a move yet and Boston’s getting busy acquiring starting pitching. They’re not wasting any time. If the Royals aren’t going to give them pitching and give them controllable young starting pitching, they’re going to find it elsewhere. That’s not necessarily a bad thing though for the Royals. Two things can be true. We can all be eager as heck to, you know, see this Royals team, JJ Bolo, strike a big deal. Maybe tomorrow, maybe later tonight, maybe next month. We’re all eager for that to happen. It’s also a very good thing and a factual thing that asking for a lot in return for one of your starting pitchers is a good thing. It’s a very good thing. JJ Bolo and this front office understand that the trade they make involving one of their starting pitchers will be the trade and the move that defines their off season and very well could define their 2026 season. You don’t just pull the trigger to say, “Oh, we’ve made a trade, right? Oh, we we’ve got a bat that can start every single day for us.” You want to make sure you’re getting a good return. And we’ve seen that with JJ Piccolo, you know, even as as early as the trade deadline last year. It’s not we don’t have to go back that far. For the last time, the Royals waited a little bit to make a move. And they made a a ton of them. They made plenty of them on trade deadline day, bringing in Burger, bringing in Kick, bringing in Mic Stremsky. They made the deals for Adam Frasier and and Randall Gritic a little bit before that, but they want to make sure they’re going through all of that process to, you know, bring back a player that’s going to make a huge difference. And it’s not been very often that the Royals have had, you know, pitching that has been this sought after. Last year, yeah, the Reds wanted Brady Singer and the Royals needed a leadoff bat. that was near the top of their list, but it wasn’t the move that defined their off seasonason. I would argue that the biggest move they made was the three-year deal for Carlos Steves. This trade that has been rumored for weeks and weeks and I’d probably go as far to say months. Like, it is going to happen in my opinion. So being more delicate with it, being cautious, slow playing it. There’s nothing wrong with that until other teams start making moves and your options get limited. That’s the last thing JJ Bakola wants to have happen where you’re holding out. You’re holding out, your price is super high on a Cameron Bubich or or anybody in that rotation and then all of the guys you wanted are now off the board and teams aren’t as eager to trade anymore. So you got to hit that sweet spot and it’s tough to do. It’s very difficult as a GM to find that sweet spot, but I feel the winter meetings will give us a pretty good idea who they are looking at. Now, does Boston acquiring two starters in the last two weeks rule out a potential trade? Absolutely not. Because neither Sunny Gray or the Odo who they acquired from Pittsburgh are topend guys. I still feel they want a top-end guy coming from Kansas City, and that would be Cole Reagan’s. But the Royals aren’t going to move Cole Reagan’s for nothing. You want to make sure that asking price is still very high because there’s always a chance somebody does meet that asking price and you get the return that you’ve been hoping for. Are you nervous that the Royals haven’t made a move yet or are you just fine with how they’ve played this off season? Let us know in the YouTube comments below. When we come back, I want to dive into a comment that was made on our video last night, and it’s about Chris Bubich. Should they be looking at him as a trade chip? Should they be looking at him as a starter or should Chris Bubich move back to the bullpen? We’ll give you our thoughts next on Lockdown Royals. You are tuning in to Lockdown Royals in the Lockdown podcast network. I’m your host Jack Johnson and you can find me on Twitter at johnnyj_15. Want to tell you about one of two sponsors today in game time. The World Cup is coming back to North America for the first time since 1994. And with 48 teams for the first time ever, it’s going to be massive. But let’s be honest, getting tickets is usually the hard part. That’s why game time is clutch and it finally gives the fans a real advantage when it comes to sag snagging seats. 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And Spoons, one of our our loyal listeners, has really been with us since day one, brought up in the comment section last night, and I wanted to dive into it because I felt that it was a good talking point. It was a good question first and foremost, but Chris Bubich is somebody that found a lot of success out of the bullpen in 2024 and you saw his pl stuff play up very nicely. I mean, he would get a ton of swing and miss by the postseason run. He’s your seventh inning guy. It was he’ll get the ball to Chris Bubich and Lucas Ersig and go lock down the game. Nobody in their wildest dreams could have predicted Chris Bubich would have that role after having Tommy John in 2023. Then they tried him out as a starter. And I can remember 365 days ago when the Royals were adamant about him starting, it was clear that the upside coming off of injury was very much in favor of a spot in the rotation than it was pitching one inning out of the bullpit. So, I could see that logic. I still wanted to see it in person, though. And Chris Bubich was this team’s best pitcher over the first three months of the year. And if it wasn’t for the injury, the rotator cuff strain that ended his season, he likely would have finished that year as the best starter for the Royals. And that’s what JJ Bolo, that’s what Brian Sweeney, Zack Bove, Mitch Setter, they all envisioned for a guy like him. And going into this off season though, he is a trade ship. The Royals like Chris Bubich a lot and they feel that what he did last year can be done again and be done for an extended period of time. They feel that they can get this this injury situation ironed out. It really already has been. He’s had time off. He’s now, you know, in the process of building up for spring training. And though he feels like the best trade chip, I can also see a scenario where they don’t get the return for a guy that is going to be a free agent at the end of the season and they pivot to somebody else and then Chris Bubich pitches well and they lock him up long term. We we haven’t even touched on that possibility yet. I mean, it’s it’s easy to look at Chris Bubich and say, well, you know, we had Tommy John in 23, pitched in only half of, if not 30 to 35% of 2024, and it was out of the bullpen, and then he misses half the season in 2025. You have not seen a guy that has been that durable. And quite honestly, once he got much better, you have not seen the durability get to where it needs to be. So, to Spoons’s point, we talked about left-handed relievers last night. No, they need to go out there and bring in somebody that can be better than Daniel Lynch. Why not Chris Bubich? You’ve got somebody that, you know, can pitch out of the bullpen. You’ve got an abundance of starting pitchers. Who’s to say the Royals couldn’t put Ryan Bert in the rotation. You move Chris Bubich back to the bullpen. And now you feel much better about the four guys you have in high leverage situations going into 2026. And though I see a lot right with that move, I I wasn’t there about a month ago. Now, if you were to tell me a month ago, I feel the Royals should move Chris Bubich to the bullpen instead of trading him or instead of putting him in the rotation, I would have pushed back and said, you saw what he did in the rotation. We saw that before the injury, he was not only one of the best pitchers in baseball, he was a Sai Young finalist. He was never going to beat out TK Scubble or Garrick Crochet, but those are two left-handed guys. And I felt for the first two to three months of the season, it was Scooble Crochet, and then 1B or tier 2 was Chris Bubich for left-handed starters in the sport. You had Christopher Sanchez, great out of Philadelphia. I mean, he wasn’t a household name, but the numbers were really undeniable. He was putting up some remarkable stats and got an all-star bid. That was great to see for him because he had returned to the mound as a starter. His stuff was playing up. His VO was good. He was working deep into games. It just didn’t last as long as you would have hoped it would be. And maybe the Royals do make the postseason if Reagan’s and Bubich are healthy for the entire year. Here’s where I would give you my definitive answer on what the Royals should do. First, you need to see if you can get that return for Chris Mitch. So though this question’s about well starter bullpen, you need to try to increase his trade value by saying he is going to be a starter. If it’s not for you, it will be for us. Now make sure that everybody knows that Chris Bubich is more than capable of doing what he did last year because he is going to be a free agent. Noah Cameron has multiple years of control. Cole Reagan has multiple years of control. In fact, you bought out his arbitration years. So neither of those guys are going anywhere anytime soon unless you were to move them. Chris Bubich makes the most sense because he’s going to be a free agent. There’s also the side of teams don’t want to get a guy for one year and maybe they don’t want to pay Chris Bubich a long-term extension because they’re unsure about his injuries. And that has been brought up in numerous articles on ESPN and The Athletic of Teams are a little uneasy about his injury history. if you cannot strike a deal with somebody, I would go into spring training treating him as a starter. And I recall Chris Bubich saying when his season was done and we had the chance to speak to him, you know, with the mics in front of his face, he had said that he had felt some discomfort as early as spring training, I believe. And that was alarming to me because he looked so good in the first half of the year, but he had felt something. Something was off. And it didn’t mean he was in a ton of pain, but it just wasn’t as free and easy as it could have been. So my goal would be in a perfect world, you send him to spring training, assuming he’s on the roster, you let him get stretched out as a starter, he makes starts in spring training. the minute that he feels something could be off, if that even happens, if there is any discomfort, any tightness, then you need to have your your your reality check for Chris Bubich of we can’t go into the year, you know, expecting 30 starts out of you. We might need to find a different role for you. It’s still a very high value role. You’re just never going to be a long-term starter. And I could see some severe push back because he’s entering a contract year. That’s that’s the other part to this. Chris Bubich is gonna want to get paid and he knows he’s more than capable of being a frontline starter for somebody out there. You move into the bullpen in a contract year. There is going to be some reluctance there. It would work out well for the Royals because you get a good reliever from the left side pitching out of your bullpen. That’s not going to be a good spot for Chris Bubich though. So that’s why it feels with the options in front of us though a bullpen move if he can’t stay healthy is a great spot to have right because you don’t want him to start and then all of a sudden he’s got a an injury that sets him back three to four months. You you don’t want that and Chris Bubich certainly doesn’t want that because as I said he’s entering a contract year. You want to be able to make a lot of money if he’s not starting for someone else. If you can’t trade him and get the return that you want, he’s going to be starting for the Royals. I just feel that knowing what JJ Mako has said before, how the Royals view this starting rotation, they feel Chris Bubich can be a top three guy for them and they know that injuries is the only thing that would get in the way. That’s how confident they are in Chris Bubich and honestly how confident I am. If he’s healthy, if he gives you 25 to 30 starts, he’s going to have maybe your best RRA on the team. He’s going to have your highest war on the team, unless Cole Reagan is healthy the entire year. I know that scares some people because of what happened last year. There’s also the positive spin of what if it doesn’t? What if these guys are healthy? They’re built up. They feel good. The thing with Chris Bubich is last year, I can understand why the injury happened. It wasn’t being overworked in in April and May. It was that this was a guy that was recovering from Tommy John. He then was a reliever in 2024. And when he was stretched out as a starter in the offseason and spring training, I remember talking to him last spring training that he had been stretching out in the offseason cuz the front office had told him, “You’re going to be a starter.” Now he’s had back-toback off seasons where you’re prepping to be a starter and you’re getting stretched out. I can understand why he hit a wall midway through the season. He hadn’t thrown that many innings since 2022. That’s that’s a long time, folks. So, I would expect him to be healthier in 2026. And if he’s not moved, as great of an idea, great of a point as it was Spoons in our in our comment section, I do feel that if he’s on the roster, he’s going to have one of those starting spots in the rotation. Do you agree with me or do you agree with Spoons? Let us know in the YouTube comments below. When we come back, we’re going to wrap up our episode talking about the center field position. Are we undervaluing Kyle Isel or is it time to find a new starter? I’ll tell you next on Lockdown Royals. You are tuned in to Lockdown Royals in the Lockdown Podcast Network. I’m your host, Jack Johnson, and you can listen to us on wherever you download your podcast. Our last sponsor we want to tell you about is the title sponsor in FanDuel. NFL Sundays move fast. One big play and suddenly everything feels different. That’s what makes live betting with FanDuel so exciting. You’re not just watching the game, you’re reacting to it in real time. With FanDuel, you can place live bets as the action unfolds. Every drive, every momentum swing, every highlight moment. Live betting is the best when the game starts to shift. A receiver gets hot, a defense tightens up, or the momentum flips after a turnover. FanDuel lets you jump into the moment. For my pick, I’ll go to the Big 10 Championship game, though. You have two Heisman hopefuls at quarterback for Indiana and Ohio State. I love these defenses. You got a one verse two matchup. I’m not expecting a shootout. I’m expecting these defenses to look really, really good in this game. So, I will take the under on that point total for the Big 10 Championship. So, if you want to be right in the middle of the action this season, visit fanuel.com and place your NFL live bets all season long. FanDuel, the game moves fast and so can you. We’ve been talking a lot about pitching in the first, you know, two segments of this show and why wouldn’t we? We know that if the Royals are going to make that big trade, pitching is going to be involved. The other side to this, the other side of this off seasonason, whenever that deal happens, I feel they’re going to have to turn to center field. And that’s just my opinion, it certainly doesn’t have to be yours. And you can sound off and you can vent it in the the comment section. The Royals are going into 2026 with Kyle Isel as their center fielder. When the Royals take the field in Atlanta in front of a soldout crowd on opening day, I can’t wait for it. Already got goosebumps talking about it. But when they take the field on opening day, I would say as of right now, Kyle Isel’s going to be roaming out there to center field. Unless there would be a lefty starting on opening day for the Braves. I would imagine it’ll be Spencer Strider. If he’s healthy, then it will be Kyle Isbel because he’s going to be hitting from the left side. The question I have though would be to JJ Bakolo and John Sherman and Matt Cotero as well, the guys that are making decisions. We know that John Sherman’s got the money. We know JJ Becolo is going to be going to be making the moves. And we know Kyle Isbel or excuse me, Motero is going to decide when Kyle Isel’s in the lineup. And is he somebody that a contending team can send out there 75% of the games this year? And I thought coming off a career year last year, there should be more people putting faith in Kyle Isel because I do not believe that he is a a poor player by any means. You can’t be as good as him defensively and just be a waste of a roster spot or a waste waste of a a starting spot. There is a lot of value in what he does defensively. And as a nine-hole hitter, I mean, he’s doing exactly what he needs to do as a nine-hole hitter. you’re a few points below being a league average bat. So be it. I would like for him to steal a few more bags to pair with being such an elite defensive center fielder. The offense though is going to give people pause. And the reason it’s going to give people pause is that center field is a high value position. You’ve heard me say that before. You hear me say it about shortstop. You hear me say it about catcher. Even though you can make a case that many teams don’t care about the offense from their catcher, they care if he can steal strikes and he can be an elite defensive catcher. The Giants do it with Patrick Bailey. We’ve seen the Guardians do it with Bo Naylor and also Austin Hedges where you just say, “We’ll we’ll take what you can give us offensively. We want you to steal strikes and help out our pitching staff.” Centerfield’s different though. We know that if you have an elite defending center fielder and you have a good offensive threat, Byron Buckston being one, you’ve got one of the best players in the sport. Now, Bobby Whit Jr. being as good as he is, it’s a bonus that he’s a short stop. Because when you have that type of talent at a high value position, it can change your entire team. And we’ve seen, you know, guys like, you know, Aaron Judge even move to center field a little bit. And with what he gives you offensively, it’s no no shock at all, no surprise at all that he’s a multipletime MVP winner. And you’re not going to get that type of production in center field from anybody out there in the trade market or through free agency. But I wonder if the Royals can value Kyle Isel and also look to upgrade the position because he’s been their everyday center fielder now the last three seasons and the numbers have almost always been the same. He was a little better last year and I thought that being a Gold Glove finalist would help him going into this off season where you’re not looking to upgrade too much. But I wonder if you take what he’s given you and just move him to more of a fourth outfielder role. You know, not rule him out for for being a starter four times a week. That’s still possible, right? I’m not going to disregard this possibility that Jack Kaggleó doesn’t look good early on in the year. But I feel you do have to look at center field and say what he’s giving offensively is not going to raise the floor of this team. You want to be a contender in October. You want to be able to get past Detroit. You want to beat up on Toronto or beat ups maybe a strong word. Get past Seattle or beat the reigning American League champs in Toronto. You’re not going to be able to do it with four guys that are below average bats. And I’m going into 2026 just predicting that, you know, three guys already are going to be below average bats. I feel that Jonathan India will be one. Kyle Isel would be another. And then a Michael Massie would be a below average bat. I could see, you know, Jack Kaggleó still being a below average bat because I don’t have much to go off of from 2025. I just want to prepare for it because every offseason we can say, well, if this goes right for this guy, they can be a great offense. They can be a great lineup. I even said it last offseason. you know, Jonathan India coming into this lineup. If they can get, you know, Vinnie and Mo Garcia going and Salvi to to replicate what he did in 24, I’m going to like where this offense is at. And we’ve said with Kyle Isbel, if he can be a league average bat, he’s one of the more valuable center fielders in the sport. This is where you need to approach an offseason, though, where you can be fine with what he gives you and still try to upgrade the spot. There’s no shame in that whatsoever. You could look at second base and Jonathan Indie, you’re paying him 8 million. That does not mean you need to make him the opening day second baseman and play him every single day. I know that 8 million may seem like a lot and Kyle Isbel’s not making a lot of money, but that’s what really good teams do. That’s what aggressive teams do. I like what you’re giving us, but I want to get even better at that spot. And if we don’t have the 155 to 160 game a year center fielder, which they don’t, and which they won’t find in free agency, why not try to combine Kyle Isel with somebody else that can really help you out in center field that can give you better offensive numbers? Because when you’re going through the ruts, when you’re going through those slumps and you’re not playing well, you don’t want to have to rely on guys who have never been above average bats to carry the offense. It happened in April last year when Bobby and Vinnie, they weren’t hitting and Salvi wasn’t hitting. You can’t turn to the bottom half of your order and say that’s good enough. That’s why I’d look to center field and be fine with what Kyle is gives you, but almost take him out of the spotlight a little bit more. And if he needs to start four to five times a week, if that ends up happening, so be it. But make sure that you have another guy out there that can help out the offense more than anything. Because this outfield, as I’ve echoed so many times in our countless episodes this off season, you’re going to have to raise the production. Not just a little bit, I’m talking a ton. You need to make sure that your outfield is in the middle of the pack, if not higher. And this has to be the off season that you do it. Do you agree with our take on Kyle Lisbel or do you feel that he can be this team’s everyday center fielder going into 2026? Let us know in the YouTube comments below and let us know your mailbag questions on this video. Just title it mailbag Friday before you send it in. That’ll do it for another edition of Lockdown Royals and the Lockdown Podcast Network. I’ve been your host Jack Johnson. Thank you for making Lockdown your first listen every day. For your second, find the Lockdown MLB podcast where there’s no offseason. Solely keeps you up to date on contract negotiations, rumors, and everything you need to be the most informed baseball fan. Find Lockdown MLB on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast. Part of the Lockdown podcast network, your team every day. Tomorrow it will be a mailbag Friday. So again, be sure to get your questions in. But until tomorrow, you take it easy, Kansas City.

We debate the possibility of a Royals/D-backs trade involving Cole Ragans and Ketel Marte. Next, should the Royals move Kris Bubic back to the bullpen? Lastly, do we undervalue Kyle Isbel?

Host Jack Johnson goes over it all next on “Locked On Royals”!

0:00 – Olney’s trade
12:42 – Bubic
23:46 – Isbel

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