Giants CHAOS: Connor Hughes on Joe Schoen’s Future, Daboll Issues & Jets Outlook

Giants CHAOS: Connor Hughes on Joe Schoen’s Future, Daboll Issues & Jets Outlook

Joining us right now to talk some Giants, talk some Jets, guy does a great job on SNY, Connor Hughes. Connor, good to talk to you. How you been? What’s up, guys? How are you? Fantastic. As a man who has seen many a press conference, where would you rank the Joe Shane discussion uh the other day? I Yeah, you mentioned a lot. I mean, I I think the first press conference I actually covered was the John Idzik infamous one where he had like the 10 I was I I had to leave class early and uh got in just in time for the uh got in just in time for that monologue. So, I I’ve seen some bad press conferences. I I think the thing about this Joe Shane one, I don’t think it was that terrible. I I think it was a no- win opportunity. I mean, the Giants have two wins. They’ve had five wins over the last two years. Uh they haven’t made the playoffs the last couple. It’s been a regression ever since they made the playoffs in the first year. I mean, people were out for blood. There there was nothing that Joe Shane could have said up there. Uh that would have had everybody saying, “Yes, we believe. Let’s go.” I mean, this it just wasn’t going to happen. It was really just about not having a Joe Judge press conference that led to his firing, a John press conference that led to his firing. It was just about not being that bad, which I think he accomplished. He he took a lot of responsibility for for things that have gone wrong. He admitted that he hasn’t been batting a thousand and he needs to do better. Uh said some of the free agent signings haven’t worked, some of the draft picks haven’t worked. He’s evaluating his process, but he’s so confident in himself and and believes he’s better now than he was four years ago and and things of that nature. So, it there were a couple moments where it went off the rails a little bit, I think, when when Pat really started getting getting on him and and him with the three questions in a row. I think that that probably was the first time you kind of saw the veering off the script. But I I don’t think it was it was a terrible press conference in any way, shape, or form. In fact, given the circumstances, I think he did all right. Yeah, Connor, we were just talking about this before you came on our last segment, and the a problem was for Joe Shane is that he can’t be honest. Like, he can’t say Brian Dable was terrible and game management. Brian Dable had moments in the season where he made decisions that ultimately cost this team wins. And if you go back to Russell Wilson, that’s was that’s the first one. Why did Russell have to start? I mean, did you promise him that he had the play? Those type of things are are the things that frustrate you from an ownership, from a execution standpoint. And does he deserve blame for that? Probably not. But you can’t say that. And so it becomes it becomes a little bit dicey for him to try to truthfully answer some of some of these questions. But that that that begs the follow-up question, Connor. Do you feel or do we or should we feel like he’s safe after the season or after the coaching search or after the draft? Every everything’s on the table right now. I I don’t think that anybody in that building that’s not related to air or tish is safe to be to be honest with you. I mean I I don’t think that’s the case with anybody over there. you know, when the Giants put out that statement and and they said that Joe Shane was going to be leading the coaching search and and you know, they they believed in Joe Shane and and uh essentially that that that statement made it seem like Joe Shane is 100% coming back next year. A little bit of that was written and and pushed forward by the Mars and the Tishes with the belief that things weren’t going to continue to spiral out of control. And and that’s kind of what’s happened. The Giants have not won since they fired Brian Dable. They have not won since they fired Shane Bowen. In fact, uh they started blowing games again and then they started losing in crunch time again and then in the case against the New England Patriots, they just got their you know what’s handed to them and probably what was the worst loss for them this season. I I think that was the the one this year where you could say they were completely and totally outclassed on offense, defense, and special teams. It was a really bad one. So I if the Giants if if you’re telling me right now Tikki that that the Giants lose out this season and and they finish the year with two wins worse than last year or say they managed to steal one game and still only have three wins. Yeah. I I believe in all likelihood there’s going to be wholesale changes. I I think it’s very hard to bring back a regime no matter who they draft or who they sign or what you believe in or getting the quarterback if you win three games in one year and then three games the next year when you go six the year before that. And it’s just it’s been this slow deterioration. But if the Giants can find a way here where the schedule does lighten up some, the Minnesota Vikings are not world beaters because of their quarterback problems. They’ve got uh the the Commanders who have been up and down throughout the course of this year, even when they’ve had Jaden Daniels out there, the Raiders who are not very good and dealing with their own dysfunction. If they can find a way to to win two, three of these games the rest of the way, then yeah, I think in all likelihood Shane’s coming back. But if they lose out or win only one, it’s it’s tough to sell continuity. And I think Joe Shane would tell you that as well and pretty much did so in his press conference. We’re talking to Connor Hughes. We’ll get to the Jets in a second, but talking about the Giants right now, when Abdul Carter sat for the first drive, I think we all looked around and said, “What the hell’s going on?” What ended up bothering me was that if he missed another team function, which has been reported after the fact, how does he only miss two drives? Like, wouldn’t that in your mind be the time for Cath to say the entire game? Oh my good. Not even that, Evan. the first time he missed a walkth through and they docked him a series. A walkth through like like when guys lose a when when guys are docked a series in a game. Thank you for saying this cuz I’ I’ve been screaming this to the high heavens like every single day. Yeah. When guys miss a series, when guys are late to a meeting, that’s usually when they’re docked a series, maybe two series, maybe a quarter. When you miss an entire function, like an entire walkthrough, I don’t care if you were getting therapy, sleeping, napping, playing video games. I don’t care. when you miss an entire walkthrough and all you’re docked is one series that does that that’s that’s less than a slap in the wrist. That’s basically like, hey, can you please not do this? Like that’s that’s literally what that was. And then for Carter to come back again, miss another meeting. I think it was Dan Dougen of the Athletic who reported it was a special teams meeting he missed, which you can kind of understand cuz he’s on special teams off special teams. Still, it doesn’t matter when you have this uh uh alarming trend developed as a rookie, which is even more mind-blowing that a rookie believes that he’s entitled to miss this number of practice or misses show up late to meetings and miss functions and all that stuff. But you have the issue that Brian Dable’s been dealing with, which is why he’s been fined and routinely late to meetings. Then he misses the the one walkthrough. Then now he misses a special teams meeting. And all you’re doc is a series. I had one coach text me, Evan, when this came out and said that the the enabling that the Giants are doing right now is just going to cost them in the long run. And that if he was the head coach of the Giants, the moment that he missed that special teams meeting, he would have been suspended for a game for conduct detrimental to the team and docked a game check because that’s the only way you’re going to get through to this kid because fines like Brian Dable was doing, that’s not getting through to him. The the series docked that CFKA did clearly not getting through to him. have to do something more extreme and hope that as a rookie he figures it out and not when he does actually start accomplishing things, he doesn’t become even more complacent. Yeah, look, he’s a top five pick. $5,000 for missing a Pete a meeting or whatever the heck the maximum number, it doesn’t it doesn’t mean anything and it doesn’t account for uh his his lack of maturity. Is this a long-term problem that the Giants think right now? Uh because look, he’s talented as hell. know this and and in retrospect, people are starting to talk about his time at Penn State and maybe some of these things that had flared up there. Uh they obviously felt like he would overcome them. But at what point does this become a problem? Well, it’s a problem now. So, when the way that it was described to me, and I talked about this before the draft and and then talked about it again once these these uh things kind of reared their early their ugly head, right? Uh I talked to a scout general manager and a couple coaches. Um, sorry. That’s my daughter screaming in the background. Yeah. Yeah. I gave her a lot. I gave her an ice talk to try to keep her quiet and now she’s saying I want another one, daddy. Give me another one. I’m solo dading at the moment right now. My wife’s working, so I’m solo I’m solo with Brooke. Oh, you’re the man, dude. I I talked to I talked to three people and a general manager, like I said, a couple coaches and then and then scouts as well, just about Abdul Carter. And what they said to me was, “He is not a bad guy. This isn’t an evil person or that kind of personality.” red flags. But the problem with Carter was that he was quote unquote entitled and that he quote felt the rules did not apply to him unquote. And that was present at Penn State. And the thought process from them was that he was going to be best put into a situation and environment that had a structured ecosystem that was going to force him to abide by the rules and teach him that this is how we do things. This is how you be a professional. This is how you’re going to this is how we operate. Like this is what we do. Unfortunately, when he came to the Giants, it reminded me a bit, and I wasn’t covering the Giants at this point, but Odell Beckham, Tom Coughlin’s last year where Tom realized that he was on the hot seat. He was going to lose his job, and Odell was basically the only one who could save him. So, Odell could get away with murder. And that’s why there was no repercussions, no anything. Odell could just go crazy. And unfortunately allowing that uh coddling him so early in his career I think led to a lot of the issues that came around when Shurmer was then the head coach and other people tried to reel him in that you just couldn’t. That’s what I’m most alarmed with is that Brian Dable realizing his you know what’s on the line real just allowing him to get away with things that most other coaches that have job security most other coaches aren’t fighting for their jobs would have nipped that in the bud so early. And usually you see this T, you can talk about it in the locker room more than I can, but usually you see this from guys who are established veterans who have accomplished something that just get complacent. Very rarely do you see it from a rookie who has done nothing in the NFL, no matter where he was drafted. So the fact that you had these concerns coming into the draft, they have not absolved at all since he’s been a pro, I have my reservations on if this is ever going to truly be fixed or if it’s just going to be something that needs to be tolerated or dealt with throughout his tenure with the Yeah, that that makes it sound alarming. I mean, because look, I he’s not a bust because he’s he he impacts games. You see it even though it doesn’t show up in the stats. We talk about this often. It hasn’t been that much uh of late he’s impacted games, but I I feel like the salvageable opportunity for him is only going to come if the if the internal leadership, and I’m not talking about coaches obviously, but it’s also got to be the Brian Burnses of the world and the Dexes of the worlds. Don’t they have a responsibility and an obligation? Cuz I remember back in my day, this was Keith Hamilton. If you were messing around, watch out for Hammer. He was coming for you. Or Jesse Armstead. Like those guys weren’t were dead ass serious about it. They weren’t the like on media, you know, leaders of the team, but they were handling the business inside the locker room. Who Who’s doing that for the Giants? Well, you named them. It’s it’s Burns. It’s it’s Lawrence. It’s OK. It’s guys like that, but more specifically in the meeting room of Lawrence who’s kind of the entire defensive captain. and then Burns who’s with Abdul just about every single day. And I think listening to Burns talk after the game and listening to Lawrence talk after the game, those two guys painted the picture of of almost it’s like what what do you want me to do? Do you want me to literally like chain him to my side and carry him everywhere we go eventually you need to be a pro. So this isn’t something where Brian Burns is seeing this happening going like shrugging his shoulders and saying, “Well, it’s not me.” And Lawrence is shrugging, “Oh, it’s not me.” Like I got the sense listening to those two guys speak that they have done just about as much as they feel they can possibly do with him and now it’s just like dude grow up. Like that’s that’s literally what what what uh uh Dexter Lawrence said after the game and and Brian Burns same thing. Like dude you got to grow up. You’re a professional. Be where you’re supposed to be and grow up. Like they there’s only so much that they can do to to handle a rookie. I mean they’re not literally going to be showing up at his door knocking on it saying come on man. Time to go. Let’s go. Let’s go. It’s not them. It’s on Abdul to be a professional. I mean, he sign he signed a contract that made him one of the wealthiest human beings in the world. Like, he is getting paid a king’s ransom to play a child’s game. Like, you need to live up to those expectations. I mean, talking about on the field, off the field of being a professional athlete. And I thought Carl Banks hit the nail on the head too on his podcast that he does with Papa. Like, the way that he described the situation, I thought it was spot on. And it’s it’s there’s only so much coaches can do, only so much GMs can do, there’s only so much players can do to police him. Eventually, you have to take responsibility for yourself. and Carter simply has not done that to this point. Not that this would make a difference, but I’m curious now that they’re obviously looking for a new head coach. There’s no speculation with an interimm head coach right now. Do these issues with Abdul Carter and just the losses piling up. Do you think it makes it likelier that they will go the veteran route in hiring a head coach? Well, they wanted that originally like that that was their preference originally. I I talked to a couple people about about that shortly after Dable was fired and and what the Giants going to be looking for and and it’s it’s not a requirement. It’s a you know, but it it’s it’s beneficial. It’s helpful. I mean, they they want somebody that’s done it before. They want the CEO. They’re not looking for the hot shot young offensive mind for for um for Jackson Dart. Now, if that person happens to be the guy that blows them away in the interview process, that’s fine. But they they feel like they already went the the they felt cuz one of the issues they had with Brian Dable was he was so fixated and in love with Jackson Dart and it was Jackson Dart and Jackson Dart and Jackson Dart where it’s like no dude you’re the head coach of the team. Like so I think that’s really their focus here is they want the offensive setup. They want the offensive system. They honestly don’t hate the idea of Taska coming back as the offensive coordinator if he and the coach hit it off. They they want somebody who’s going to be a leader of the locker room, command the locker room, lead these troops and be the CEO of the entire operation. Yes. someone who’s done it before, that’s extremely beneficial, especially because this is a job in New York. Yeah. So, the the other issue that’s that popped up after last week’s game, this massive hit that Christian Helis uh put on Jackson Dart, and I honestly felt like Jackson Dart handled it the right way and he said all the right things. You can tell he’s getting frustrated and annoyed by this. Just from personal experience, I know that that specific hit doesn’t hurt, right? That he was not in harm’s way. he was not going to break a shoulder or get a concussion. That hit just looks really bad, but like all the momentum from the linebacker goes into the player cuz his feet are off the ground and he just slams into the ground. It looks bad. But I thought for the most part he actually did a better job at last week of of avoiding major contact. Yeah, it’s just the big one. Like like that’s that’s the thing Tiki is is it’s just the big one that he has to avoid and it’s the big one that he needs to take care of and it’s it’s running up the sideline and realizing you know what just step out of bounds and live to fight the other day. Like that’s kind of what that they have to do. And unfortunately with Dart it’s something that he has not done and he continues to not do. And the one thing that stood out to me a little bit guys about Dart and it was that we talked the very next day and Casa said this and Shane said this and some of the other guys we spoke to said he’s got to get out of bounds and then you talk to Dart after the game and he goes there’s nothing I would do different it’s this right it’s this such a a difficult line that you’re towing of but it is a fine line if he’s one step quicker out of bounds he doesn’t get hit you know what I mean and it’s and it’s third and two instead of potentially third and one which ultimately became third and 16 because of Theo’s penalty which he was absolutely justified to do 100%. Yeah, I have no issue with that Theo Johnson. In fact, it would have been a bigger concern if he didn’t go after him. I agree. 100%. But yeah, I just it’s they got to find it. Unfortunately, like he’s been coached one way this entire season that it’s not just going to change and you don’t want him to start now double thinking in the moment and then lose his ability of what he does when he’s making these special plays. So it it’s not it’s not an easy it’s a really delicate situation that they need to find the fine line between and I don’t think they found it yet. I agree with that. We’re talking to Connor Hughes now the other football team which has had gotten very little attention this year. It’s like the opposite of last year where the Jets are the circus and this year they’re very quiet circus. Is winning good for the New York Jets? Cuz obviously some fans hate it. They look at the question is that Evan, you know half the fan base. I’m not making this up. Forget the other half of the fan base. You got a new head coach in a new town. Even though he’s from this town, he played in this town. You have to win. Conor, do you agree with that or are you with the Tankists? I don’t think you have to win. I I don’t I don’t think like if the Jets lose out the rest of this year and they’re still fighting, I don’t think it’s like, “Oh my god, what’s wrong with Aaron Glenn and all that stuff?” But I don’t think wins are a bad thing. when when you’re trying to develop a culture and develop a foundation and and and set set signs of what’s to come and what you’re going to accomplish long term with this team, wins are a good thing. I mean, winning games and finding ways to win. And that’s the thing, Evan, like this isn’t like the Jets just beating up on really crappy teams or, you know, they’re they’re winning games like 10 to three where it’s just like, oh god, get this game over with. This game against the Falcons was a perfect example of they had the lead, they lost it. Then they fell behind, they came back, fell behind, came back, fell behind, came back, then won. You know, like like they’re they’re learning things in this moment. I don’t think there’s a ton of players on the roster at the moment who are going to be part of this turnaround when the turnaround actually happens. I I I don’t I think this team needs a legitimate infusion of talent, free agency in the draft over the next couple years. And a lot of the guys playing now probably are not going to be playing for the team when the Jets are making playoff runs, if they are to make playoff runs. But still, the the lessons and the culture and and and the the standard that you’re setting when you win these games and the way that you’re playing, there is a carryover in that that they there is something that can be I don’t think the Jets winning, you know, four of their last if they beat the Dolphins, oh, they’ve won four of their last six games, you know, four and two in their last six. I don’t think that means they’re going to start next season 5-0 or anything like that. But I do believe that the what Aaron Glenn and Dermuji trying so hard to change the culture of the team. Winning helps do that. Yeah. I think the other thing the other thing Connor with this is that you can’t as a head coach and this is mostly perceptual for people who want to malign you is you’re chasing 500 for a long time if you start one and whatever or two and whatever. And so he’s he this is kind of selfish because I like Aaron Glenn and I want him to be successful there. You don’t want to be chasing 500. It just takes forever to now get people to think of you as a winner. Yeah. And I think it’s been the other thing the the other honestly thing to remember here too, Evan, is that they have the draft picks from the sauce and and Quinnon trade where that’s different with they don’t have to finish one or two to get the quarterback. They just need the teams finishing one or two to not need a quarterback and then they can trade up and get one of these guys. So that that’s the other major part of this too where they they can win games, find themselves picking six, seven or eight and then it’s not going to cost them that much and they certainly have the capital to do it to go up and get their guys. Well that I guess here’s the the caveat and I want them to win. This is not a debate in my head. I was there on Sunday. I’m going to be there this Sunday. I love it. I want to win. If they keep winning and instead of picking seventh, they’re picking 11th. Does it make it I mean it makes it more difficult to convince the Giants or the Titans who may not need a quarterback to go all the way back from 1 to 11 or 1 to 12. That could be a real fear, right? Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. I mean, that that’s something. But again, they they have so many picks right now. I mean, th those first round selections that they have, the second round selections that they have. I mean, there’s so much there to go up and get a guy and and maybe this is just, you know, uh, uh, living in the moment, but but going through what the Giants did where it was, you know, oh god, they missed on on the Caleb, Jaden, and Drakes, and now, oh, this is a terrible quarterback class and, oh, they’re not going to get Cam Ward, they’re going to be stuck with Jackson Dart. And now look at Jackson Dart. So, I I think the bigger thing for the Jets more than when they are picking, and I I genuinely do believe this, and I don’t have an answer to it. The biggest thing that they need aside from where they’re picking is somebody in that building and I don’t know if it’s Muji, I don’t know if it’s Tanner, I don’t know if it’s I don’t know who it is within their building, but they need to have somebody that has the conviction that they know that this guy is the guy because that’s what Brian Dable did. Brian Dable saw Jackson Dart and said, “No, Shadore. No, Cam, I want Jackson Dart. That is my guy. This guy is a franchise quarterback. He can do it. I know he can do it. I need him with my team and I can win with him. And the Giants went out and got him and you saw what was happening and obviously it fell apart for other reasons, but they got the guy. The Jets need the person in their building to know that is the guy. And I don’t know if that’s Tanner. I’ll be honest. I don’t know. There’s not a big enough uh sample size to say yes, he knows what a franchise quarterback is to go get one. But they just need that person more than wins or losses. And if you have it, you’ll be able to go get your guy no matter what. We’re talking to Conor Hughes of SNY. I’m not there yet, but I know in a couple of weeks with this season being over in terms of not making the playoffs, there’s going to be a point, probably the New Orleans game, where the Jet fan, myself included, is going to say, “I want to see Brady Cook. I just want to see.” Do you think the Jets and Aaron Glenn will do that? Will we see Brady Cook start a game? Not if they’re winning. Um not not if they keep winning. No. uh if if they if they start falling apart these final few games and and Tyrod gets banged up, I I don’t think they’ll be so, you know, like I said, we get to week 16, 17, 18, and they’re completely out of it and Tyrod’s dinged up, I I don’t see the need to throw uh basically a land of slaughter with with Justin Fields and trot him out there when he’s already emotionally and physically beaten. I think that’s when you’d see Brady Cook, but if they’re winning with Tyrod Taylor, no, they’re they’re going to stick with him because again, you got to think about the rest of the team. I I understand your logic 100%. But the minute that that these players don’t believe that the coaches are putting them in the best position to have success, you’re going to start losing guys. And I know there’s not a ton of people on here where you’re like, “Oh, do you really care if you if you really make Jamie and Sherwood angry or how long is Jamian going to be with this team or or Brandon Stevens or some of these other guys who are just, you know, kind of around for the next year or two and you don’t know what’s going to be beyond that?” No, but it’s it’s just the me message that you send. Now, again, if they’re losing and they’re out of it, that’s when you can say, “Look, we just got to see what else we have at the quarterback spot.” But, uh, as long as they’re winning, no. If they go on, if they start falling apart yet, I think you could see Cook the final week or week two of the season. Give me your gut on Bree Hall because he, look, I know what you’re talking about. When a new coach, new regime comes in, they they necessarily have to make over the roster. You’re going to get a third, maybe even more in turnover from a roster standpoint. But Breeze Hall feels like, and Aaron Glint talking about him as if he is a foundational type piece. He’s only 24 years old. Your next year will be his year 25 uh season. He feels like he got three or four really good years left in him. What’s your gut on Bree? More than anything else, Tiki, it’s it’s what the salary cap space that they freed up when they got rid of Quinn and Sauce like like the it’s gone from a position where you can franchise tag him, you can give him a three-year contract, you can transition tag him and it won’t make a drop in the bucket of the money that the Jets have next year. So, it’s crazy. You had asked me a month ago, I said absolutely not. 0% chance he’ll be playing for somebody else. Yeah. Now, I’d say there’s probably an 80 75 80% chance that Breeze Hall is back with the Jets next year and maybe even higher than that. I mean, I do think it’s going to come down to money and and because that’s what Hall wants. Hall wants to be paid. Like, that’s that’s very clearly what what he wants. But, as long as the number is decent or if the Jets decide we’re not going to go the three-year option, we’re just going to tag you. Yeah, I I do believe that he’s going to be back. Now, the Brilin Allen injury, I think, is kind of the the the butterfly effect of this whole thing because if Brilin didn’t get hurt, Bree is probably traded and the Jets are rolling out the rest of the season with Brilen and Isaiah. Uh, but with Brilen now hurt, you kind of can’t totally rely on him next year. There’s some concerns there long term. That’s when I think it just makes more sense where when when money’s not an issue, just pay the running back. Just pay him, keep him, and and suddenly, like I said, you need a wide receiver two, still need a wide receiver three. you need to tweak the line a little bit, but you already have the big positions taken care of at the tackle. Uh that’s when suddenly that that wherever whatever you draft that rookie quarterback, you’re dropping him into a situation that’s a pretty good ecosystem to have him thrive with the receivers, the line, the quarterback, and or running backs and then then a coach that you do believe in in Tanner. Absolutely. Connor, great talking to you. Get back to your daughter. We appreciate it. Look forward%. Thank you guys so much. Take care, Conor.

NFL Insider Connor Hughes joins Evan & Tiki for a packed breakdown of everything happening with the Giants and Jets — from Joe Schoen’s shaky press conference to Brian Daboll’s job security, Abdul Carter’s alarming discipline issues, and whether the Giants roster needs a complete reset.

Connor also dives into the Jets’ surprising late-season competitiveness, Aaron Glenn’s culture-building, the future of Breece Hall, the looming quarterback decision, and whether fans will get a look at Brady Cook before the season ends.

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