BT & Sal LIVE: Giants AND Jets Lose! Giants Fire DC in Fallout!
When it comes to sports books, Bet365 has it all. Download the app today and see why it’s never ordinary at Bet 365. Gambling Problem. Call 1800 Gambler. 21 Plus only. Must be located in New York. Well, the Giants finally pull the plug on defensive coordinator Shane Bowen after they blew their fifth double-digit lead of the season yesterday in Detroit, falling to the Lions in overtime 34-27. Bowen is reportedly done with outside linebackers coach Charlie Bullen taking over on an interim basis. Giants are 2 and 10 now. First team officially eliminated from postseason contention. Meanwhile, the Jets clinch their 10th consecutive losing season as they were beaten by the Ravens down in Baltimore 23 to 10 as they fall to 2-9 on the year. Brandon Imo waves his no trade clause to accept a deal that sends him to the Texas Rangers in exchange for veteran second baseman Marcus Simeon coming back to New York to join the Mets. Tonight, wrapping up NFL week 12 will be the Panthers at the 49ers. You’ve got Westwood 1’s coverage on WFAN. Knicks and Nets on the FM dial with coverage beginning at 7:20. Nets lost to the Raptors Sunday 119 109. Rucker basketball on WFAN AM this afternoon. Coverage at 12 uh 12:45 as the Scarlet Knights take on Tennessee in the player era festival from Las Vegas. The Islanders beat the Seattle Kraken in a shootout yesterday 1- nothing at UBS Arena. Tonight, Rangers host the Blues at Madison Square Garden off a windless road trip. And the Devils are home for the Red Wings. Fan weather sponsored by Total Orthopedics, the experts at getting you back to being you. to Total Orthopedics is Long Island’s premier orthopedic practice. From simple sprains and broken bones to complex sports injuries, they are the experts getting you back to being you. Total Orthopedics and sports medicine. Visit totalorthoexpress.com today. 47° sunny skies in Central Park. And with sports flashes at the top of the hour, I’m Crystal Prey. Then there was one Joe Shane’s left last man standing now after everybody got their piece of the meet with Shane Bowen getting fired. Yeah, we knew that this was long overdue. What What’s I What’s the difference? There’s none. You know what? I could feel BT. You know what I feel with the Giants? I feel it. They’re close. They’re really close. I give you like a caller said last week, the Giants are they’re just getting close here. All right, so Bowen got fired. There you have it. Everybody happy now? We expect things to change here. He needed to be fired. Does it really matter if it happens now? If it happens the end of the year, Shane Bowen out as Giants defensive coordinator. Doesn’t matter. I mean, it’s, you know, something we have to obviously talk about here. And it’s like bad bullpens in baseball, the inability to hold leads in football. Like, we’re kind of used to losing around here, but losing the manner in which the Giants have lost this year is just about as maddening and as perplexing and as infuriating as it gets. It’s just, and again, I’ve said this a million times, not trying to sound insensitive, but the fact that Shane Bone was let in the building a month ago, uh, was I I it it just didn’t add up to me. I don’t know why it’s now I know what they said that Kfka didn’t really have great familiarity with the defensive staff. He wanted to get in the building, get a sense of what was what and that if he did obviously want to make a move, he would have a better sense who to elevate. So that’s fine. All the logistics and and you know dot in the eyes but what an awful chapter in Giants football. But think about it this way. Did anybody really think and I know everybody was yelling for Bowen to be fired for weeks probably since like what week two. So thought the Cowboys came in. I mean maybe last year a little bit really last year. S if you think about it. We know everybody wanted Bowen out. Did anybody really think that he was going to be the defensive coordinator start next year? Not a person. Okay. So then so what’s the difference? What you think it gives you a better chance to beat the Patriots on Monday Night Football? And even to that I would say so what? So who cares? I mean outside of KFKA and evaluating him and for the record I think KFKA’s done a nice job so far in these first two games. I think he’s got potential to be a head coach somewhere. I still wouldn’t make it here just because I think everybody needs to go. But now the the bullseye is going to be to me clearly on Joe Shane and that’s still something that’s TBD. The initial release from Maro when they fired Dable weeks ago was making it sound like Shane’s going to lead the head coaching search and he’s going to be here beyond next year. Then there were conflicting reports saying not so fast. So maybe that’s the last thing to evaluate here outside of the one thing I want to see is Kfka with Dart, not Kfka with Jameus Winston. But even then, like, okay, Bowen got fired. Big deal. He was not going to be here beyond next year. This move does not impact the Giants any way, shape, or form because they were firing him anyway at the end of the year and the remaining five games doesn’t mean squat. This is for the fans. I mean that’s really what it is you know because there’s when when this happens repeatedly and that’s why I I gave you the example of like bullpens think Armando Bonitez like those those situation where you just can’t you can’t fath you can’t have it as it’s unacceptable as a fan to lose in certain ways. I mean it’s generally unacceptable to lose all the time anyway. Uh but there’s certain styles if you will of losing that are just untenable. And to me like the Giants you’re right. I mean he was going to be back next year no matter what. uh if they have, you know, if they had a different DC this year, do they choke away five fourth quarter leads? Maybe not. Maybe there’s a little bit of a shift in in how he deploys the players that he’s got. It it doesn’t matter. All right. You can’t get the wins back. You can’t uh you can’t unpack the losses. But this is a move, as sad as it is, it’s not going to really change anything. This is really, and we’ve heard this expression quite a bit, this is just throwing a little little meat to the fans, a little meat to the masses. That’s truly what I believe that that’s it because this will do nothing for the season. This will do nothing for the roster. This is just to plate distraught, miserable, angry fans. And I get why they feel that way. You don’t think it’s CFKA trying to just forget what happened prior and him looking at his seven games as a okay, I’m going to be the head coach of this team for the next seven games. Fuel it out for the first two. I I can’t have this anymore with Bowen. We’re moving on from him now. Let me try to clean things up for the final five. You know, I if the Giant fan if the Giants organization was trying to give the fans a bone, throw them a bone here, they would have fired Bowen weeks ago. So to me, maybe it was a Cathfa thing and just saying, “Hey, we got to move on. We can’t have this continuing here with our offense doing their job.” I mean, the offense scoring 27 points with Jameus Winston is a pretty good thing. Every week the offense shows up. I mean, it really is amazing, you know, and I heard people talking about this. Where was it last night? Somewhere um uh somewhere maybe maybe Yeah, it wasn’t ESPN. Either way, it was some some former players talking about the Giants and you know, obviously our focus on Joe Shane and of course before that when Dable finally got fired and of course now the DC is gone. You know, I I I didn’t really and I’m still not going to subscribe to this cuz I do think that Joe Shane should be gone. But when they have they have beaten a couple of good teams and they have come out and they’ve been highly competitive against a couple of teams that have talent. So, I’m asking the question really, forget about the DC for a moment, even though that’s the story today. Bigger picture, is the Giants talent actually better than than we think? I mean, we keep sitting here saying, “Oh, Joe Shane hasn’t done anything.” But there is something to what extent, I don’t know. We could flush through it, but there’s something to be said for coming out and from the opening kick and really for 80 85% of almost every single game being in a position to look pretty good teams in the eyes and and not get blown out. We know a bad team. When we see a bad team, you look up, it’s 20 to three, you can’t get a first down. Yeah. You’re in the air or on the ground, you know, 13 penalties, fumbles. Like, the Giants have actually looked fairly sharp for a while. But BT, they’re two and 10. I am the first team eliminated again. I know. I I know they are. I’m not making a case for their talent to be overflowing. I’m just saying are we being fully fair in the evaluation of whatever talent, not the record, the talent because that’s what goes to Shane. I think so. I think they stink. I think everybody there stinks. I don’t think they football games. So, I mean I mean that and part of what you’re saying is why Joe Shane is still here and yet they keep losing games. So, they got rid of the head coach saying he’s not coaching our talent up to the level that it needs to be. And yet, they continue to lose football games. So, and they continue to lose football games in a similar fashion. So, I don’t want to hear it. Now, I’m not disagreeing that it’s better than what we saw. Yeah. But you’re talking about comparing them to the Jets or Giants who were the worst teams in football and non-competitive and couldn’t score any points. So, there’s a big gap in between a good football team and where the Giants were to where they are now. I think that they’re not the worst team in the league as far as can’t even watch them. They have no talent. They can’t move the football. Now, they’re actually scoring some points, which makes it okay. Now, they’re just on par with the other bad teams in the league, but they continue to find ways to lose. The record is what it is. Even if you give them two more games, as we talked about, that’s still nowhere. Four and eight is no, that’s an awful record. I get it. I’m not even saying that I’m not a little bit with you. I’m more with you than not. I’m just throwing the conversation out there because that is the last remaining issue for the New York Giants. Okay. See what happened yesterday and this was even if they would have won, it would have been in a lot of ways empty. Now, I’m sure some Giant fans would have really enjoyed it. I’m sure some Giants fans would have been like, I don’t want to win because that means the GM might come back. That’s going to compromise draft picks. All those things that fans juggle uh during bad seasons where you’re looking at the end result here. But if they would have won, all right, it was fun. Jameus made some sick plays and CFKA was aggressive, but Kfka is probably not the coach next year. Winston’s not the starting quarterback. Like, so to me, those are the most hollow, empty wins. All I’m saying is, and and I’m I’m not even and I would if I felt it. I’m not even pushing back that much. All I’m saying is when you beat a couple of good teams and you come out and the first quarter and the second quarter and the third quarter, you’re staring eye to eye. a lot of times on the road as well with with good teams or really good teams or slightly below like I I don’t they’ve confused me this year is really what I’m saying like I can’t prove this. If they had whatever coach we think they’re going to have next year if McCarthy’s coaching I don’t think they’re 2 and eight and I don’t think that they are. If they had a DC who was better than you know this stiff who was finally shown the door I don’t think they’re two and nine. I just don’t not saying they’re seven and two. I’m not saying they’re going to the playoffs. This team’s talent is at least a little better than I thought. That’s all I’m saying. But but I don’t know where you’re saying that based off because they compete every week. A lot of bad teams don’t. Congratulations. I think yesterday was more about the Lions than it was about the Giants. Now, I’m not trying to take away from the Giants, but I don’t think the Lions are as good as I thought that they were. Well, they’re definitely not. Coming off a loss, I thought the Lions were at home. I thought the Lions were going to pace the Giants, and they clearly did not. And they’re lucky obviously to win that football game. But we’re Okay. Is their talent the worst in the league? No, but it’s is it middle of the pack? I don’t even think it’s middle of the pack. And if it is, then there’s there’s no reason that they should be two and 10. So I the record is what is you can’t say, well outside of the record. A lot of the reason why the defense sucks is because of the players they have, not just the defensive scheme. I don’t think this is all on the defensive coordinator, just like it wasn’t all on the head coach. They fired the head coach. Now they fired the D coordinator. We’re going to see what’s going to happen. I I’ll save you the suspense. They’re going to lose more football games because that’s what the New York Giants have done. Lose more football games. So, you could say that it’s not as bad as it once was, which I agree with, but it’s nowhere near good enough in year four of a regime. Find me the guys who have been here for four years or been anywhere for four years, the general managers that have a record that two and 10 backto-back years, first team out in year three and four. That’s unacceptably bad. Unaccept. They’ve gotten worse. Dave Gtlman, the best players were by Gtlman and the best year that they had was the first year. So, I’m not disagreeing that it’s better than what it the record says and better than what it was where they could not move the football. They couldn’t move. Uh they couldn’t get a first down if you spotted eight yards. But defensively, they were with holding themselves in games, too. So, I mean, the Giants lost a bunch of close games last year. Not like this and and and not against It’s different. It’s different because they’re scoring more points. So, it feels different. Well, well, well, true. Well, I mean, you know, think about the two issues that have really plagued this team for I mean, outside of losing for the better part of a decade, they just the offense was not modern. It was a pop gun offense and and the old line was just nonfunctional. Giants line suddenly looks okay. Now, again, a lot of that’s Andrew Thomas who was not drafted by by by Joe Shane. And by no means am I stumping here for Joe Shane to get back. I’m just trying to because I’m not doing an hour on a defensive coordinator who should have been gone a month ago. I mean, who wants to who wants to hear that? So, to me, I look macro. I I kind of take that aerial snapshot and I say, “Okay, if I own the Giants, would I move on from Shane?” I would. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t. I’ve said that for for for months now. So, I guess in a lot of ways, it’s more about maybe the the future being a little more bright with the right hires and with a tweet here, a tweet there. Like, we guys, if there’s one thing that we know, we know bad inep football. Now, this has been stunningly nuts how they flush these leads away. Bad and inep not to the extent that we’ve seen. BT and Sal the fan are friends at Town Fair Tire. Remind you that a Town Fair Tire you always get the guarantee lowest price on name brand tires from Connecticut to Maine. Nobody beats Town Fair Tire. Nobody. Matt starts us off in Westchester. What’s up, Matty? Hey, Matt. Hey, how you guys doing? Good. Good. I was just calling because BT I totally agree with you and I think the Giants are a lot more talented than people give them credit for. If you take those five blown leads, the Giants are seven and five. I think it’s totally a coaching thing and not to mention if Dart plays in the Chiefs game in the beginning of the year, that was a totally winnable game. Well, Matting their top receiver Matt one second here. So, you’re not going to give them all five. I mean, that that is they do not earn that benefit of the doubt. Oh, yeah. I’m not saying that. All right. All right, le let’s give them 40% of the stunning blown leads. That’s four wins. I think they’re going to still find a way to win probably two games down the stretch if the schedule softens, not the next one. You know, and at that point, you know, you’re in the neighborhood of sevenish wins. And again, they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. And there needs to be wholesale changes. And we’re almost there. Coach gone, DC gone, some players will be gone, eventually the GM will be gone. But, you know, it’s it’s probably a little bit more promising than it’s felt for most of the season. That’s all I’m saying. know what I’m saying? Yeah. And I think not to mention they’ve had the hardest record in football. I mean, with a rookie quarterback and they’re doing all this Matt Matt Matt, they’re two and 10. Second straight year. First team first team. I don’t think you do. I don’t think you do. First team eliminated in the NFL for the second straight year. And you talk about the Chiefs game. Did Jackson Dar play against the Saints? Yeah, he did without top receiver. What happened? Without his top receiver. Okay. Without his top receiver. The top receiver has been here almost all year long. I mean with with Jackson Dart. So they they lost to the Saints who were god off a football team. Played one quarter with Malik Neighbors. Okay. And and so how have the Giants been able to score all these points then without their great receiver? They’re doing it with Isaiah Hajins. And all I’m saying is Hajins just got here. Matt, they’ve been I’m happy for Hajins. That’s a good story. They’ve been scoring points all over the place without their top receiver and running back. Pardon me s Matt. Offense is not the issue. It’s not the issue there. There’s issues. Now this kind of goes in and and thank you for the call there, Matt. This kind of ties into what I’m saying where you get neighbors back next year. You get Scataboo back and there’s still a lot of things to do. You got to score 50 points. No, no, no, no. But you don’t have to if the defense actually does their job. Scataboo and neighbors don’t play defense. So even with dart scataboo neighbors back, how many points they going to score against Lions? I mean, maybe maybe they do score 40 and maybe that’s what it’s going to take to win. But all we heard all year long prior to the start of the season certainly and even the beginning of the year was their defense and how we talked about it. I thought they were going to be good. thought it would be the best part of the team. Okay. So, so then I don’t want to hear about the quarterback or the wide receiver or the running back. All those blown leads are on the defense. And it’s not the coach. The coach is now gone and we’ll see what happens. It’s the players. The players have it’s the whole thing. And I guess really it comes down to do you want Shane back or not? Because if you think that they’re they’re talented enough to justify him coming back for year five. No, I don’t want him back. I’m not saying you I’m saying just in general like if somebody’s going to say, “Well, they’re more talented than we thought.” Okay. So, do you want to ride with Joe Shane? For me, I don’t. We’ll see what happens with the coaches or who comes in next year and if they can make the most of what’s here. I don’t think this is the worst talent in the NFL. No, it’s it’s not. I mean, that’s the point. Think about this. Who knows what would have happened if Jamus would have started against the Commanders or, you know, against the Cowboys or if Bowen did a better job with all these leads. I I don’t know. It’s it’s a guessing game that’s not even worth playing at this point. But we all thought cuz we didn’t know when to think about the conversations going into the year. When are we going to see Jackson Dart? Is it going to be week 10 against the Bears? Is it going to be the Saints game? Like we all had that was the conversation. So nobody really thought the Giants. We didn’t even know scatter. We didn’t even really know anything about Cam Scataboo and the old line was still a train wreck until they showed that they weren’t. So it was about when is Dark to play right south. That was the focus that understandably that was the conversation and and to me like the I think everybody thought the Giants defense including us could carry the mail get to the quarterback. Abdul Carter is gonna be Burns is gonna be great. Tibolo flashed a little bit more last year. Here we go. He got sexy in the middle and and it hasn’t happened. But but that doesn’t mean that our thoughts and our assertions toward the defense were wrong. I I ju I think with better coaching this and and obviously need another corner. I think this defense could be okay. And if if the defense gets okay with the offense, that’s where I think you’ll see the Giants talents not as weak as some people think. Robin calling from Westchester. What’s up, Robin? Hello, Rob. Hey, guys. I called last week. We had the same conversation and I just wanted to jump in because I I do agree with BT. I mean, I said this last week that the talent was there. You look at the games they lost starting with the Commander game, no kicker. They could not kick a field goal. So, that’s that loss is out the window. and subsequent games. BT, you said it there. They’ve been in every they’ve been in many of these games. Very competitive. Trust me, I shut the TV off when you I can’t watch anymore with those 20 to3 scores. So, they’ve been in the games horrible losses. If you saw that field goal last yesterday, the 59 yard field goal, it was hooking right and then it took a left. I I I never saw anything. I said the fans must have been blowing fans. I don’t understand what I don’t understand what that has to do with anything. It has to do with this idea of like just making this wholesale change and calling this team trash. I mean, it’s not trash. I feel like they’re showing up and I’m just trying to uh you know, I want to make that point. I think Well, do you want you want to keep Joe Shane or No. Why not? I mean, I’m asking you. I could give you a million reasons why. Why not? We’ve done that for how many years here? So, I’m asking you. Do you want to keep Joe Shane or not? I would say I would say in the I would say in the context of what’s going on with the team, Mara is ill. He’s battling an illness. The family is not I know, but we’re not talking about right now. I’m talking about next year. Robin, I We understand all that and we’re sensitive to that. I’m talking about do do you believe Let’s Let’s simplify it. It’s not that difficult. You’re making it too difficult. Do you believe Joe Shane is the right guy to build this football team beyond this season? I I stand behind a lot of his uh his Is that a guess? Yeah, I would say. We’re not out here. I got you. We’re not out here politically stumping, Rob, because I mean, good. You either if you think they’re talented, then you want to you want to keep the general manager, and that’s fine if you do. I vehemently disagree with that. I think he stinks. I think he stinks. And I think their record is something that’s impossible to ignore. Four and eight would be a bad record. Two and 10 is embarrassing and abysmal. So that that’s where now the talent thing is also could be semantics a little bit. Are they more talented than their record? Probably. But I mean, it’s not a coincidence the record’s the same thing as it was a year ago. And they they did fire the head coach and the new head coach, the interim head coach, still losing football games, still losing games in similar fashion, I might add. And it’s not all to me on the defensive coordinator. It’s also on defensive players that they have. I mean, I look at the Raiders, I look at the Titans, I look at the Jets to an extent, the Saints there. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, what does it really mean? I mean, we’re debating the merits of this team is not quite as bad as other teams. All I’m saying is, and this goes back to something I’ve said for a while, I think the Giants job is going to actually be appealing this off seasonason from a head coach perspective. Now, you got to keep Dart healthy the rest of the year. We’ll see when he comes back. We’ll see how they run him. Get rid of those. Get rid of those stupid runs where he’s banging into bodies like he’s a bowling ball with linebackers and safeties. Keep them upright. Change that. I think Kfka will, you know, but the at least the I guess the stabilization of the offensive line and at least a couple of things on defense. You get the right GM because I am moving on from the GM. I’ve said that. I’m certainly not going to change my opinion on Joe Shane here when I’ve had it for well over a year. Uh it is it is more desirable than some people think. And I think maybe you know with the look at the Patriots this year. I don’t know if you would see that kind of a jump. I don’t think it’s completely nuts to think that the Giants could take a big step next year. I really believe that. But I think you could say that about a lot of teams. Can’t say it about the Titans right I can’t say it about the Jets. No, but I’m just saying I can’t say it about the Jets without a quarterback. I can’t say it about the Browns if you unless you believe in Sanders, which I don’t. You named three teams. I I can’t say that about the Raiders. Looks like the Raiders hired the wrong coach. Raiders stink. Keep going. But But I’m Hold on, S. I’m naming the worst teams, right? And who am I leaving out? That’s really bad. Of all the big teams, they’re the one team that I think could take a big step. All right. What’s a big step? Playoffs next year. I mean, you know, periphery of wildcard issues, but that’s also not good enough. I’m not saying it’s good enough. That’s a different conversation. I think they could be a playoff team next year. The way the league is, it is meant the Giants could have another top pick. They have their quarterback coming back, neighbors coming back healthy. I think they could be a playoff team next year. Let’s not overinflate what the Giants are at 2 and 10. To me, that’s an that like it’s a non-starter. It’s a second straight year of all the teams in the NFL. of all the teams in the NFL. Joe Shane in his third and fourth year as general manager of this team led this team to be the first team eliminated two years in a row. Listen, but and that’s that’s where you drop the mic and that’s where any defense of the No, I’m saying that’s where any defense of the Giants really sounds ludicrous. That’s why I kind of throw the caveat. We’ve been watching football forever and you know there’s been a lot more good Giant teams than Jets, but we know bad when we see bad. And the way they’ve they’ve lost these five games in the fourth quarter, all I’m saying is to get to that point, you’re a little bit better than the record probably says, but as Parcels would always say, you are what the record says you are. Triple 8 808 1019 BTN South on the fans. Obviously, the uh the reaction to the firing here, the Shane stuff, the direction of the Giants, and Brandon NMO. Wow, that came out of nowhere unless you listen to this show because we’ve been talking about it for a long time. So, of course, we have the least of possibility. We will get to that. Hey, this winter, celebrate the joy of the season in a new allect electric SUV from Cadillac. Make every drive exciting with the innovative technology in the optic. Arrive confidently, S, as we have with our Cadillac with a sophisticated styling of L. And it is comfortable. It’s awesome. They ride smooth. Phenomenal stuff. Yeah. Discover the comfort of the spacious three row Vistic. Experience EV luxury like never before at the season’s best sales event. Visit your Tri-State Cadillac dealer, the BTN South Show, presented by your Tri-State Cadillac dealers. Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York Giants. Every Saturday at 8 a.m., it’s kickoff with Boomer and Mike Valente, where the guys break down the biggest headlines and storylines from across the NFL. 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Before we do that though, BT, the decision from CFKA to go for it. So many people I don’t know your take. We didn’t talk about this at all prior to this, so I’m curious to get your take here. So many people who when Dable was here had an issue with Dable kicking a field goal and not going for it. Now we’re saying that they wanted Cathka to kick a field goal to go up six with three minutes to go. That makes no sense. That makes no sense. The season is over. The Lions are going to score points anyway. The Giants defense has collapsed all year long. That to me was the right move to go for the throat right there. If you score the touchdown, the game is over. They can’t beat you. You’re up 10 with three minutes to go. They can’t beat you. If you kick a field goal, odds are they’re going to come down and score a touchdown. And even if they don’t, they’re going to probably get another possession anyway to do the same thing. With three minutes to go, they could still have two possessions. So, I have no issue with I thought it was the right move with Kafka being aggressive there. I know these coaches got away from themselves here. Everybody’s going for it on fourth down all the time. In this particular spot, when the difference is a six-point lead versus a 10-point lead, I think you got to go for it there. Absolutely the wrong move if this is 1987. I mean, of course you go for the touchdown here, man. Are you kidding me? I don’t understand how anybody really sees it any other way. And I’m always open to debate and discussion and dialogue and this and that. Have we seen how the Giants have lost every game that they’ve lost this year? You know, you have to go for the throat. You got to take that stake and you’ve got to try to pierce the heart of the Lions, which is what they tried to do. It’s the only way you could beat them. They’re better than you are. No question. You’re two point you’re two touchdown dogs now that So, I’m with you. That was the right move and it still took a 60-y field goal basically to tie it. I know. Geez. All right. So, here’s the thing, too. So, I remember saying about Kafka. I I think I thought and I still think to an extent that he’s got a slight chance to to become the coach next year. And not even to debate that now, just to reestablish my point. I think that there’s a chance. I did that and I still do now. With that being said, I always said that you’ve got to when you have a chance to distinguish yourself as an interim head coach, you’ve got to go for it. So, we need to see how he deploys Jackson Dart. Is it a little different in terms of keeping him safe? We’ll find out when Dart comes back. We got a little look. I would have gone a little bit further, you know, one series special teams with Abdul Carter being late or sleeping, whatever the hell happened there. But at least there was a show of authority, which was the complete antithesis of whatever Dable was doing because then the report came out. Dable basically ignored that whole year. So there’s little flashes, little pops here, and and Dable a couple times did not go for it to your point, which is the to the sugarin of Russell and others. So I love it. You go for it. You try to embolden your team. You’re lucky to be in that position. You’re on the road. go for the win. I think that now you were more open to keeping CFKA than I was. I just want everybody out. Anybody that’s had anything to do with this mess over the last four years, I want out. With that being said, Kfka to me has been impressive here in the last two weeks since taking over. those things that you mentioned about holding players accountable, Abdul Carter specifically, the way he’s been open and transparent with the media, the offense, forget about the number of points that they score or the decisions to go for a not the offense looks more traditional. The Giants with Dable were scoring a lot of their points with the cheat code running with Jackson Dart. CFKA so far has been traditional runs and throwing the football with Jameus Winston, not to mention the creativity that they’re showing. Now, is the creativity sustainable? Probably not, but at least it’s in there. comes from the Andy Reid coaching tree. There’s a lot of there’s a lot of checking the boxes when it comes to CFKA. Now, with all of that being said, I still can’t you can’t take that risk to me with the Giants bringing back Shane and Kfka next year and god forbid they start again, you know, one and eight. Like, it’d just be an utter disaster. So, to me, you’re better off just cleaning out. But with that being said, I think Kfka has done a nice job and is at least opening my eyes. somebody who was a clear detractor, just didn’t want any part of CFKA at all. He’s showing me something here over these two weeks that he’s been the head coach. What if it’s a veteran GM that’s got some success in the league who really says, “I’ve always liked CFKA. I want to work with this guy.” Shane out. Yeah. A GM who’s done it. Not Not a rookie. I I h I must admit that I’m more open to it now. Even with the two losses, it shows you it’s not just about the win loss. I think it’s foolish to look at the schedule and be like, well, if he wins three of the final five games, he could be, you know, gold so many times. That to me is stupid. It’s not about just the wins. It’s about looking at what he’s doing. And there are clear things that he’s done in just two weeks that I believe in in a successful head coach. M maybe first and foremost, not even just a discipline thing, looking at the offense and watching the way that the offense works under Cath. So, I want to see him though with Dart before I make any definitive decisions. Fair enough. I want to see him with Jackson Dart. might still lean moving on, but if I hired a new general manager that came in here and said, I want to interview him as part of the crew. Also, who are the replacements? If you’re not giving me the the known commodity, the not I don’t want Mike McCarthy myself and he’s one of the more known commodity names out there. So, if you’re not if you’re giving me the list of candidates and it’s all coordinator, young coordinator, defensive guy, whatever, then maybe Kafka would be the best of the bunch. I think there’s, and we talked about this, so not even to jump back into this today, but I think that there’s uh a couple of coaches that you might be able to trade for that are in situations right now that are kind of seemingly ending like the end of the road, the end of the run. Some good some good guys, too. Listen, here’s what I would say just philosophically about about and I’ve said this before. When it’s so bad, all right, and the losing stench is just unavoidable, I’ve got to fumigate the entire joint. All right, you take the family, go to the hotel for a couple of days, and just spray everywhere. Everybody, everybody, including the roaches, out of the building. However, it’s a little different when there’s somebody that I think could have can be a star. And I I think that Kfka could be a star. That’s a strong almost ridiculous statement for somebody who’s coached a couple of games, but I know he’s really respected in the NFL. Very respected. He was in the cycle before. If the Giants fire him or don’t bring him back, he will be back in the cycle this year. I believe he’ll get a job this year. So, if the rest of the NFL covets him, and I know that they do, and he’s showing some good things, why let him leave? Sports Talk on the Fan is presented by Paramount Plus. Count on Sundays all season long with the NFL on CBS and Paramount Plus. Mike is in Westerly, Rhode Island. What’s up, Mike? Fellas, for years, I mean, this is crazy that it never gets talked about. When’s the last linebacker that the Giants had that was even potential of sniffing a Pro Bowl? You can’t even tell me where two outside linebackers are right now. Was it Pierce to answer your line? Maybe Pierce. Maybe. And and maybe he made one in his entire career and we had him later in his career. We have not had a linebacker. Now, we always draft in the top 10 cuz we’re awful. And to draft a linebacker, we don’t put a premium on that position anymore in the NFL. So, we haven’t had a linebacker that can read a gap. Bobby tackles a lot. But that’s cuz we’re on defense a lot. A carat. Yeah. Yeah. He’s not he’s not he’s not blowing plays up though. He’s not disrupting stuff. I think Dane Belton might be the worst safety in the NFL. We can’t cover a tight end. We our our defense was only thought of being dangerous because we could rush the passer. So, we were trying to mask all of our other weaknesses by getting to the quarterback quick and we’re not doing it. One guy is. It’s a good point. I think you nailed it. One guy is. Yeah, there’s a lot of real quick with KA. He made one mistake on that final drive. Go ahead. He just didn’t run the ball on second and third down. True. True. That should have been two run plays and then on fourth down passes. True. Tick, tick, tick, tick. only problem with that. Yeah, but but also and thank you for the call. Also, he could be thinking, well, I want another possession here, which they did have. They just had it with, you know, under 30 seconds to go. You could be thinking with 3 minutes to go, all right, if we don’t score here, they’re pinned back. So, we could either stop him, stop them and get the ball, they kick a field goal, tie the game, and we get the ball back with a chance to get our own quick field goal. Like, there’s a lot of different options there. So, yes, you can nitpick and say run the clock out. I don’t think that you could be thinking that with three minutes to go. I think that’s overthinking things. I think that’s being a little presumptuous. Try to punch it in. You know, again, I understand the criticism. I understand the push back here. I understand. Also, you run the ball tick tick tick tick. That changes things. What the Lions could do and obviously what the Giants can do moving forward. But if you’re going for it, and you and I both are happy that he did, it didn’t work out. But if you’re going for it, you bust out the plays you think are going to work, whether it’s in the air or on the ground. Yeah. I’ve got to be consistent here. If I’m getting on table, like if I get on table for saying you can’t play run the clock out when there’s three minutes to go is an eternity in the NFL specifically against the Detroit Lions who seemingly score at will. Now that was not the case yesterday obviously until they broke the floodgates open you know the fourth quarter scoring the 10 and then in the overtime the first play but point is in their building three minutes to go a team like that really any team in the NFL that three minutes in eternity. So I can’t play run the clock out. My main goal in that spot is I end the game if I go up two scores. Even the Giants couldn’t blow me. Well, they have though this year in this spot. I I think they would have held on to one game. Well, think about what would have had to have happened if the Giants scored there. Okay, 3 minutes ago, you’re up 10. Worst case, the Lions come down immediately and score a touchdown and you still have the ball. Then you could start to maybe play clock a little bit. But again, you got to they’d have to go the entire, you know, length of the field there. Well, not on the kickoff obviously if you score the touchdown. You get the point. They’d have to drive to score a touchdown there. You were in a good spot. At least you’d think a minute would come off the clock. Now you’re talking about 2 minutes to go. I don’t think the Lions had their timeouts left either. At that point, I think you’d need what? Three things to happen. So, you would have to score uh well, first you got to score, then the Lions would have to score. Then you would have to get the ball back and do nothing with it. And then the Lions would have to score again. So, there’s really four variables at that point. They were uh I mean, I know we we’ve heard this a million times though, but we used to do they were up 268. Um fourth quarter, 5 minutes to go. Denver two scores inside of four minutes. The Bears I mean to yesterday ah go Saints 14-3 it’s they but I I actually watching the game and I was going back and forth obviously I feel like if they would have gone up to two scores they would have won the game BT and on the fan 888 808 109. We’ll hear from Mike Kfka on his decision to let go of defensive coordinator Shane Bowen when we come back. We’ll get into the Brandon NMO trade coming up at 11:00. If you’re dealing with neck pain, backachches, even sciatica, stop messing around and go see the guys at Samuel Institute for Pain Management. That’s Dr. Sha, Dr. Co, and Dr. CedarPra. They’ve got offices in Colonia, Englewood, and Livingston. And here’s the best part. They focus on nonopioid, minimally invasive, non-surgical treatments. 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I got a lot of faith in Charlie and um you know obviously these decisions aren’t easy and Shane’s a good person. He’s a good man. He’s a good coach. Um just the results just weren’t where where we wanted them to be and so uh Charlie’s going to kind of step up for us and rally the group. Um the defensive staff will rally around Charlie and and put together a great plan. I got a lot of confidence in the room and a lot of confidence in our staff to do that. I mean, what else are you going to say? I mean, I respect it. You want to, you know, good man. I’m sure he is good coach. That’s That was a little bit more debatable than I’d stop there. I know. I know. But I I think he I mean that’s coaching 101. You say what he said. All right. Now, let’s do a pretend play here. So, if I were in the or if I were on the Zoom, cuz this was not in the crowd. If I were on the Zoom, this is what I would say. Yeah. Mike. Mike Salakati here. WFAN. The question I think you know everybody wants to know is what the hell took you so long? What changed since last night? I believe you were asked. I wasn’t there, but I believe you were asked last night about Shane and you said you had a lot of confidence in Shane going forward. You know, I just had an opportunity to to watch the tape, look back at a few weeks, watch a lot watch a lot of the um defense, watch a lot of what was kind of going on, the communication, and just felt like this was the right time to do it. You know, when when you got it, when I got the job, you know, quickly, I didn’t want to make a lot of rash decisions and jump to anything really quick. I wanted to have some time to sit back, evaluate it, look at it, and kind of figure out what what the best best best thing to do was. So, you know, wanted to be um wanted to be, you know, calculated how I handled it. And, you know, I thought that today was the right time. Half butchered that bit right there. It was supposed to be it was supposed to go right to the CFKA answer, but whatever. I’m sorry, Steve. Yeah, either. Okay. Either way, you get the point. Bowen’s fired. CFKA I respect the fact BT that he made the decision. Now, I would assume on first level when I learn about this, I’m thinking, well, somebody finally stepped in and said enough’s enough with Bowen. But I’m glad that it seems like it comes from CFKA himself. Yeah. And I think it’s also smart not to just get elevated and then just make rash changes. Now, I’m sure he had a strong opinion of of the job that Shane Bowen was doing as when he was watching as the offensive coordinator. It’s not like he was on a different planet. I’m sure he was frustrated as well, say to himself, man, I would do this or, you know, if I’m running the show, I’d get rid of him. But I think that smart people um are are more analytical and and just give it a little bit of time before you make that that tough decision. Listen, I don’t know, every Giant fan might not want this, but there’s still a decent amount of football left. There’s a prime time game, there’s a by-week, which you’re going to have a couple of practices. You got four more games, a couple in the division here. Not that it means anything in terms of the record, but it does mean something in terms of perception. So, I I think that CFKA is about self-preservation. Clearly, try to get the job long term and and try to get the building healthy and I think it would have been very tough to be healthy if Shane Bowen was around a lot longer. With all due respect, WFA and NFL football powered by Verizon. Get to your local Verizon store today. John is in Hartford, Connecticut. What’s up, Johnny? Hey, guys. Thanks for my call. Hey, S. You know I love you, but you’re throwing a little gas on the fire this morning. I know you love it, but I kind of go with BT. Give me a moment to kind of go with the BT side with a little bit of a twist. I I think we should stay the course with Joe Shen. I think the change that I would make would bring in a veteran head coach like a Mike McCarthy and keep Kafa Kofka on as OC and she’s kind of like the a head coach in waiting. He’s only 38 years old. I agree with B. But then you got to hire him. John, if he’s not going to stay here under Mike McCarthy, nor would McCarthy want that. But well, can I just finish? Give me Give me a minute. Let me finish here. Okay. Let’s all just communicate here. Get everybody in a room and say, “Listen, and and the mayors and everybody else. I like the direction, but here’s what I like to happen.” and and put a feeler out to McCarthy to say, “Hey, I want McCarthy to be the head coach and Copa to stay as as the offensive coordinator, knowing that in the future, Cough is going to have this job.” Okay, number one. Number two, I want to go back out and reach out to Wick Martindale in Michigan and bring his ass back in and start working with the talent we have and let Joe Shane work on putting a heavy defensive draft that’s going to work with a Wink Martindale team. and then let’s go and give him a run next year because I think we have both sides of the ball corrected. We can make big progress. Your thoughts, BT, go ahead. You take this. He wants you. That’s that’s a lot of uh for the ball, John. Things that just will not happen. I mean, I think Wink hates the Giants. Now, I know that that disdain is for the guy who’s no longer here. He’s not coming back number one. So, you can talk about a secession plan, which I’m good with, right? But this is not like John Chai at Duke with Coach K who you know is eventually going to ride off into the sunset and you just got to sit on that next seat knowing that when coach Kay retires it’s your job. Now, Mike McCarthy is not young, but he’s not older like Pete Carol. And like if the Giants would have if it would have been Pete, then Pete’s not doing a good job now. But if it was a a Pete Carol, 74 year old coach or Bellichic, which is not going to happen either, that’s a little more plausible. But first of all, if they and I like McCarthy and I would hire McCarthy, okay? But if they bring in McCarthy, even if Kfka decided to stay on for one year, he’s going to eventually cuz Dart’s they going to they’re going to do well the offense and then Darts, pardon me, and then CFKA is going to be in the cycle next year and probably get hired. He’s not going to wait for 5 years. So, it just doesn’t add up. And there’s no way that Wink is coming back. That’s that’s wacky. John, there were so many points that you made during the course of that phone call that were I mean flat out hideous. I don’t even know where to begin. With all due respect, I respect your fandom and we appreciate listening and taking the time to call. Those are horrible ideas. One after the next after the next. First of all, starting with Joe Shane, stay the course with Joe Shane. Think about like when you go back and listen to this on the free Odyssey app cuz you want to hear yourself calling. I used to do the same thing you said, but we didn’t have the Odyssey app. I got to tape it. Yeah. I would put perfect. I’d put the cassette tape in the deck, record it, hear Mike and the mad dog yelling at each other. Then I’d get on the horn. I’d go back and play it. I love it. So when you go back and listen to yourself say that you want to quote stay the course with Joe Shane, maybe you could hear what I heard and how insane that sounds after another two and 10 start to their season in year four. But if we go beyond that, let’s just say that I’ll grin you. Okay, you you want Shane, fair enough. You can’t hire Mike McCarthy, who is known for his offense. That’s what Mike McCarthy does, and then force Mike Kfka on him. It just doesn’t work. It’s got to be one or the other. Well, I didn’t get to that part. Yeah, I we didn’t get to that part of the equation. I’m trying to get there. Shane, and then he wants McCarthy and Cfka to stay on and then Wick Martindale. But if you want to hire Kfka, that’s also your choice, too. You want to keep Shane, fine. You want to hire Kfka, fine. But you can’t have McCarthy and Kfka. It doesn’t make any sense. McCarthy would never come here if he had Kfka forced on him. And Kfka wouldn’t stay here if Mike McCarthy were hired to be the head coach. Massive points for creativity, zero points for plausibility. Sunny is in Malver. What’s up, Sunny? Sunny. Hey guys. Uh once again, uh Carl Banks doing a great job killing the Giants, killing Barnes and Lawrence specifically for Barnes taking himself out of the game. I I don’t understand that at key points of the game. makes a good play the next next play he’s coming out of the game. And Lawrence obviously for being out. I heard they said he was nicked up, but come on guys. I mean, nicked up. This is this is this is the NFL here. Um and and and S, you’re way off on the Giants talent. Listen, they had a third string quarterback play two games, right? Wilson, who’s god awful, played three games and a rookie quarterback play the rest of the games. And they played out of eight out of those teams that they played are two or more wins over 500. and they not only, you know, were in those games, but they dominated some of those games. So, listen, I know the players got to take accountability, but listen, I think the Giants have a great future. Two number one seeds, guys, the Eagles and the Browns only gave up 30 points to one team. Guess who that team is? Sunny, the Giants. Sunny. Sunny. Sunny, you’re thinking last year. Here’s what I would say is you you got to raise your expectations. What do you think the Patriots and the Bears now? What was the Patriots and the Bears record last year? Four wins and five wins. Where are they now? Yeah, first place in their division. Yeah. And we’ll we’ll see how good it is. I don’t I don’t believe in the Bears being any good and the Patriots have been good, but push comes to shove in the postseason. I think there are teams that are better. You wish it could be that good. You wish team s going forward next year. You don’t think they can win 11 games? No. No, I don’t. No, I don’t. Call me crazy. Yeah. Oh my god. You’re crazy. You’re crazy. Add up how many years it’s taken them to win 11 games total over the last three. They got their quarterback now, S. You don’t understand that. They have that quarterback. I do understand. Where is he? He’s hurt. Okay. And how they get hurt? How many quarterbacks are hurt in the NFL? Every other week there’s a quarterback. So So what if that happens again next year? Then what are you going to do with those 11 wins? Like Sunny, come back down to earth for me, please. Good God. Am I not seeing the same thing? I mean, are you guys not watching these games? They’re 2 and 10 again. I’m watching the games on Sunday. Are you not? You’re seeing good in that in that. I mean, holy crap, guys. I’m not saying that it can’t turn around. I’m saying, how do you have the balls to sit here and with confidence say that they’re going to win 11 games next year? Add up how many games this team has won the last 3 years. You don’t even know who their head coach is. You don’t even know who’s running things next year. And you’re going to sit here and say they’re going to win 11 games next year based on what? Jesus. Oh my god. The crazy thing is I’m more with Sunny than obviously than you. That goes without saying 11 games. No, I’m not going to attach it. Did I I didn’t even hear Did he say 11? Did he actually say 11? He said 11. All right. No, I’m not attaching definitive, you know, win totals. That’s that’s ridiculous. So, if he would have attached a contingency to it, this is where Sunny, you lose me a little bit, right? because I’m largely with you with neighbors, with Cam, with Dart, with a better own line, with you know, with a little more personnel in the secondary, with some better coaching. Then those are big things, but you’ve got to attach that that contingency. When you talk about the Patriots, they got Vable and Drake May plays every week and is good. The Bears got Ben Johnson. Look what Ben Johnson’s done for Caleb Williams. So, I’m going to leave the door jar again much more than my partner, but I can’t, you know, start shouting from the mountaintop until I see what the hell they do at head coach. By the way, we heard the same thing last year. Everybody said the same thing last year. You and I debated about this. Oh, Russell Wilson. Oh, that defense. They’re going to be better. They’re going to be better. the the owner said, “If I’m in the same spot next year, something’s gone wrong.” It’s the same thing. I heard the same stuff a year ago. And the the difference is that was when we didn’t know that they had the quarterback. Now they actually do have the quarterback and they still can’t win football games. I’m not saying it’s impossible to turn around. Obviously, look at the league. The way the league is set up is to where you can have teams that struggle from one year and then play well the next. And yeah, obviously there are some pieces to be excited about. The the arrogance from a fan base that has not seen any success for a decade plus is astounding. I like guys, you got to come back to me here. Either you have to get a grasp of reality or raise your expectations. But to say that this Giants team is going to win 11 games next year without knowing who the general manager is going to be, who the head coach is going to be is just completely asinine to absurd levels. What curse did you almost say? S I was going to say so we said the same s last year. Same last year. All right. So you ready real fast? I know we got to break. Tennessee Giants, New Orleans Jets, Vegas Browns. Those are right now as per Tankathon the order. All right. Uh of the draft 1 through six. Titans, Giants, Saints, Jets, Vegas Browns. The difference, and I kind of hit on this a little bit earlier, more more thoroughly if you want to go check it out on the free Odyssey app. The difference for me, which is why I’m a little bit more was that Sunny with not not totally with Sunny, but more with Sunny than you. All those teams, one has a quarterback, and that’s the Giants. And you look at Tennessee, their guy stinks. The Saints have to find one, the Jets have to find one, the Raiders have to find one, and the Browns have to find one. So, the Giants can at least attack this off season without trying to find the quarterback. Now, they got other things that they got to find. If they do, I think they could take a nice jump. I mean, 11 wins, I wouldn’t say that. Uh, but if if certain things pop for the Giants, and I don’t think they’re like home runs. They like they have to hit a couple of doubles this off season. If they do this time next year, Giants are in the wild card conversation. By the way, like we forget where I was at versus where you were at midway through this season. the the Broncos performance to me even with the loss was I didn’t think that they had a chance to compete in that game because I thought Denver was on a different level at that point. I was saying I think that this team can compete here and legitimately get themselves into the playoff picture in the NFC and then it just continued to get worse and worse and worse to the level that we’re at now with this team. So I’m not saying I can’t see good things here. I’m not saying that it’s impossible to turn it around. What I am saying is you got to be realistic and a lot of that thought process was in place a year ago and look at where we are now. So you don’t know what’s Can they hire the head coach first? Can they make a decision on who the GM is going to be? Good god. BT and SH we’ll work at some Exactly. We’re working some baseball when we come back. 888 8081019. Let’s get you updated. Here’s Crystal Preston. Talk Sports with BT and SA midday 10 to 2. WFAN WFM WFM HD1 New York and Odyssey Sports Station. WFA Sports. Good morning at 11:00. I’m Chris with Presley. This sports flash is sponsored by Chef IQ. Precision cooking. Effortless results. Chefiq.com. Also sponsored by Motion Sports Medicine. Is pain stopping you from doing what you love. Physical therapists at Motion create a personalized plan that can get you moving safely and confidently again. No referral needed. Most insuranceances accepted. Find a location near you and schedule an appointment today at motionptg.com. Giants interim head coach Mike Kafka confirms his decision to fire defensive coordinator Shane Bowen this morning after the Giants blew their fifth double-digit lead of the season and losing to the Lions yesterday. Kafka on doing it now versus when he first took over for Brian Dable. I didn’t want to make a lot of rash decisions and jump to anything really quick. I wanted to have some time to sit back, evaluate it, look at it, and kind of figure out what what the best best best thing to do was. So wanted to be, you know, calculated how I handled it and, you know, I thought that today was the right time. Says he reviewed the film and made the call. quote, “The results just weren’t what we wanted them to be.” Outside linebackers coach Charlie Bullen takes over for Bowen on an interim basis. Tonight, NFL week 12 wraps with the 49ers hosting the Panthers. Westwood’s coverage can be heard on WFAN. Beginning at 8:00, the Knicks and the Nets will meet in Brooklyn. Coverage at 7:20 on WFAN FM. And then we’ll join the Monday Night Football Game in Progress. Ruckers basketball in action this afternoon as part of the Player Error Festival. They’ll take on Tennessee in Las Vegas. Coverage of that game begins at 12:45 on WFAN. At St. John’s and Iowa State in the same tournament, 4:30 tip in Vegas. Hockey tonight, Rangers host the Blues at the Garden. The Devils are home for the Red Wings. Fan weather sponsored by Ray Catina Lexus of Freehole and Ray Catina Lexus of Mammoth. No one sells more Lexus vehicles in New Jersey than Ray Catina Lexus. 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But how about the soft purr of an upgraded exhaust when it fits just right? For me, it’s the little things, like these new windshield wipers from eBay I installed. From small fixes to big upgrades, eBay has all the parts you need at prices you’ll love. Guaranteed to fit every time. eBay, things people love. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply. Operating engineers Local 825 are the men and women who make our region move. So whether it’s roads, bridges, or our favorite team stadium, they build and maintain the critical transportation, water, and energy infrastructure we rely on. That’s why their advocacy organization, ELAC, the engineers, labor employer cooperative, fights for those priorities every day. That’s representing the signatory contractors and the hardworking men and women who build both New York and New Jersey. Our friends at Town Fair Tire remind you that at Town Fair Tire, you always get the guaranteed lowest price on name brand tires. From Connecticut to Maine, nobody beats Town Fair Tire. Nobody. Get connected with WFAN to talk about your favorite teams, the Fan on the Odyssey, iHeart, and TuneIn apps. [Music] PT out back on the fan. We’ll get back to your calls here in just a second. And we’ll get back to the football stuff. Maybe Sunny, before we get to the baseball news here with NMO, maybe Sunny was talking in fact BT about three years, 11 wins. That’s what the Giants have had now over the last three years. Six wins in year two with Shane Dable, three wins in year three, and then two wins this year. So you add it up, that’s where you get his 11 from. Anyway, more on the football when we um you know, we get back to the phones here. 888 1019. The BTN South Show on the Fan is presented by your tri-state Cadillac dealers. Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York Giants, the New York Mets, the first team to make a major move. You know, we talked about it. I know you remember I brought this up in season last year about the Mets needing to explore trading Brandon NMO. There was a lot of thought that it wasn’t realistic, whether it be then or now. Well, it is. It’s official. The Mets just announced it in a press release. Brandon NMO is a Texas Ranger. Marcus Simeon a New York Met. I think it’s an awesome move by the Mets. I really do. To me, it tells me that they are they are finally ready to to build this thing the right way. You know, a lot of you and it goes back even before last year. You know, you talking about the core and us talking about the core like they just had to change things. You had to change things. You know, Nemo, you got to appreciate what he was and but that doesn’t that doesn’t hang banners, man. It just doesn’t. I mean, that that’s great. Sentimentality works sometimes. And when that player is somebody that’s really important to you, which I get. I I I know that NMO is and I respect that and I’m sensitive to it. But I think sometimes, and it’s happened with me as well with other players that that I care about that deeply. Same with you guys like with Pete where there’s a deficiency or two and you allow how you feel about that person to overshadow the bottom line impact the player has on the team. And Brandon NMO the last couple of years has had some some aggravating alarming lower extremity injuries, plantar fasciitis, things that have robbed him, not that he ever really stole bases anyway, but robbed him of a little speed in the outfield. He’s got one of the worst arms, if not the worst arm of any left fielder in baseball. And I don’t think he’s going to age very well. So I give the Mets a ton of credit. Uh it’s a very proactive, very forceful forward move. And the other thing this means is they’re doing a lot more. Yeah. I mean, this is the first of many moves, but to to get started, they had to make a change with the core. And there was no way. I’ve said this many times here on SNY. There was no way to improve their team defensively, which is something Sterns made an emphasis. You know, he made a point to to talk about that right out of the gate after run prevention. First thing he said, there’s no way to make this team better defensively if you had both NMO and Pete Alonzo back. So, one of those two had to go. And if you were going to invest in one of them, which one would you invest in? For me, I know the answer. It’s very simple. I’d invest in the power of Pete Alonzo now, you free up the DH spot as well because NMO, if he were here and you were stuck with him for the next 5, six years, he was going to have to be a DH. He saying you don’t think he’s going to age well. He wasn’t aging well already. It’s not a knock on him. and he played 155 games, but he’s playing a lot of these games hurt. He’s banged up. High character guy, easy to love and root for. I get it. I like him, too. You know what I like more than Brandon Nemo? The Mets winning. I don’t understand these fans. Like, what was this in a I’m not a nine-year-old kid, so I can understand a kid being hurt that his favorite player got moved. But it’s all for the greater good. The Mets didn’t make this move to rip the hearts out of their fan base. They tried to make this move because they want to win. And by the way, I think it leads directly to Peter Allonzo being back. Now, do the math. Do you think the Mets are really going to trade Nemo and let Pete walk in the same offseason? That would hurt the fan base to a point where they’d have a lot I mean they better make sure they win in that regard. So I think Pete’s coming back now. Okay. So I don’t necessarily agree, but so we’ll have the conversation, but before we even get to Pete, let’s piece this together a little bit further with left field. Yeah. So obviously you can go after Bellinger and even when NMO was here, we thought that was a real chance and that’s going to happen. They’ll make a move for Bellinger. Uh maybe there’s a real run coming for Tucker. We’ve talked about Quan maybe as a trade ship for the Yankees. Why wouldn’t Quan now be a trade piece for the Mets? Should be. Okay. Should be. I think everything should be in play. You also could move Juan Sto to left field and upgrade in right field. Now, I don’t think the Mets are going to go get Tucker. I’d love to see it because he’s a well-rounded ball player, but you’re going to have to make a major commitment depending on what the market is for him. And they already had that in Sodto and Lindor and probably Pete. So, yeah. I I I just think it opens up PT. You had to do that. You could not run it back again. Sodto’s in right, Nimls in left, Alonzo at first, Lindor at short. Not to mention what happens at second base. So you upgraded, the Mets are going to upgrade defensively in the outfield with the elimination of Brandon NMO. You upgraded second base, defensively, definitively with Marcus Simeon, forget offensively. And I still think there’s potential and upside offensively, but the guy’s a gamer. He’s going to put the bat on the ball. He runs and he plays gold glove defense. That’s what you want as a second baseman who’s going to hit toward the bottom of the order. Not to mention the guy’s a workaholic. Stuff I was reading about him. He works hard and all that. His work ethic is second to none. Passion clubhouse guy. Yes. And so so was Nemo. But understood. But this these pieces fit better. It’s not a knock on NMO. And it’s not saying that Simeon’s the best. You look at their offensive numbers, you would say, well, how the hell you going to trade NMO for Simeon? The pieces fit much better. So now whether it’s Quan, whether it’s Tucker or Bellinger, the Mets have a spot in the outfit. whether it’s a trade that we’re not discussing. They had they freed up a spot that was a you know I’ll steal Gary Cohen term a net negative in left field. He just was he can’t run. He can’t move very well and offensively he was inconsistent and declining and he couldn’t go to center field anymore even a pinch. I mean that was obviously the one of the big problems and that’s what he got paid on really as a center fielder. All right. So a lot of people and it’s just and I get it but it’s it’s a very shallow thought process like they didn’t even though literally they did. It’s not a Simeon for NMO trade. I think it’s a McNeel for Simeon trade because McNeel’s next. So, you’re going to have an up and I’m with you. I think there’s a good chance that Simeon bounces back offensively. I’m not even if he doesn’t, it’s a second baseman with Gold Glove defense that’s hitting at the bottom of the order. Correct. Better than what they had. Look at McNeel’s numbers. Yeah, he could run a little bit. I I think he’ll be rejuvenated. Um especially if Pete’s back and you have Sodo, depending upon where he hits, whatever. Lor Pete specific thing. I forgot to mention this on SMY last night. Simeon at second base defense, right? Yeah. Even if Pete is back, he’s going to eliminate some of the problems defensively with his range at second base. Yeah, that’ll I I wouldn’t put too much into that because to me, I hear you. I it’s it’s it’s a fair thought, but I watch Pete play first base. Not able to get down this rabbit hole too much, but I watch Pete and to me the issues aren’t too much to right, right? It’s more the arm. I get more the arm, whatever. But obviously Simeon, who’s an elite defensive player, you know, he’s going to help out a little bit. He’s not going to hurt Pete, put it that way. So, so now you look at a roster. McNeel’s still here. He won’t be Okunia, Batty, Mauricios, Vientos, some of those guys. And then you throw Jed Williams and whatever. Now I think here’s what I think happens the rest of the winter. You go out there and you convince the Tigers to trade school, something we’ve always thought. And now you have an ace and you don’t you don’t give up MLAN for rental. Ah, God almighty. If they get Bellinger, forget about complicating my world. This is about the Mets. They get Bellinger. I mean, the Mets with one move that had to be done that’s painful for some of you. The Mets have a chance to go from eh to dominant. Well, well, now they’re going to have to replace the offense that was lost from NMO. So, where are they getting that from? It could be in center. It could be in left. And I would assume one of those spots will be filled with a proven player, whether it’s via free agency or trade. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of them is going to be a trade. I think they’re going to sign somebody or one’s going to be a trade. Well, one could be one of the young kids. They love Benj. I don’t think he’s going to start opening day. I’m not Listen, I’m not watching. Who knows? But that’s that’s too risky for I don’t like that. Maybe not opening day, but eventually. I I don’t I I don’t think it’s You can’t go S. Remember, they have a hole in center field. So, now they have a hole in center field and left field. They’re going to fill one of them, I would bet, either via trade or free agency. The other one I wouldn’t be shocked if it were filled within from the farm system because you’re just not getting they also have a hole potentially at third base. And you say McNeel is gone. Now I hope that that’s the case. I’m not so sure. But if he is back, he’s back in what his role should be. The first guy off the bench to play a little second, could play a little first, could play some third, could play some outfield. That’s what you would want as a Now I would trade him, but if he’s back, he’s not back as an everyday player. There’s no world that that’s going to be the case. Cuz even right now if they didn’t make another move, Batty would play the bulk at third and now your infield is set. Assuming that they bring Pete back, by the way, which is a big assumption, but yeah. Yeah. No, I I and I don’t see this happening. Now, if this did, this would offset for me the enthusiasm of what happened even and that was a stunner. I saw that I’m like, wow. Not not that I never thought it would happen. I wasn’t thinking Simeon necessarily, but I mean, that was that was a gutsy bold move by the Mets. And again, I I loa them for doing that. It’s hard to break up a core, which is why I’m less convinced that Pete’s back as as you are. But what can’t happen is all right, you upgrade second base and now McNeil stays and McNeil’s your starting left fielder. That can’t happen. Yeah. And I don’t think that that’s good either, but that can’t happen. But here’s why I say now just let’s get to the Well, two things before we get to even the Alonzo part of it, although I guess it gets tied in. The other thing that I love about this move is that Cohen did not get involved with the sentimental feel. The family love NMO as you should. NMO’s a great dude. I had the opportunity to interview him. It was one of those it I did the show from the fan the amazing day fanfest and we had NMO Beningo and I had NMO on with us and we talked to him for a while and he was just high character and we’ve heard this stuff for a while but getting to talk to him on the air he was open and honest and accountable and by the way he had plenty of opportunity and he never once was an all-star with the Mets and every year was supposed to oh this is going to be the year it’s going to be an allar this is going to be and it just never happened. And so he had opportunity, but such a great guy, high character guy. You could understand why the family loved him. And to have the family approve a trade, which I’m sure was not easy for the Coins, that shows that they’re in the right mindset to build a good baseball team. Well, and that’s why you bring in somebody from a different organization, provided you think that they’re really shrewd and sharp mind because now the the loyalty, and I’m sure Sterns, you know, respects NMO, respects his grit, respects his hustle. He didn’t draft him. He didn’t, you know, he wasn’t scouting him in in Wyoming, you know, when he was playing summer ball. They didn’t even have high school baseball out there. Uh, some of you probably know that. I’m sure many Met fans do. So, he doesn’t have any attachment to Brandon Demo. He came here and he could be a little callous. And when you try to do something that you haven’t done since run DMC was blasting out of my speakers as a kid, you got to do things like this that are unpopular. And you’ve got to be willing in the court of public opinion for a couple of days to take it on the chin because you believe that’s the right move. And that’s what’s happening here. Now we get to Pete. Yes. I I I I No, you don’t know. I don’t know. We don’t know. But I am of the opinion that since they already did this, they they they might go all in. And it’s a little more probable than not for me today that they are moving on from Pete rather than because they got rid of one now you justify bringing back Pete. I don’t feel that way today. From the sentimental aspect I could understand why you and maybe others think that well if he could get rid of NMO then they’re going to get rid of Pete. Forget that for a second. Think baseball. Okay, let’s go. Do you think that the NMO trade made the Mets better or worse offensively? Uh I think it got them worse offensively. Correct. Yeah. Power. Yeah. Worse. They cannot afford now to lose. They You could argue that they couldn’t afford to lose Pete to begin with. They cannot afford to lose his offense now. And that is something when you now have NMO out of the equation and remember all this talk about, well, Sodo’s going to be DH. Yeah, he might be in 5 years or something like that. It’s not anytime soon. Pete’s going to be DH. Nemo’s going to be DH. Now, you don’t have to worry about Brandon NMO. So now with the luxury, and Pete said he’d be willing to play more DH with that luxury, you can get a first baseman, part-time first baseman to help upgrade the defense at first, at least on occasion, and also keep his bat in the lineup. He also could play first base and be a plus first baseman offensively. But they cannot afford now, forget about the sentimentality and love the just baseball. I got you. They can’t matter to lose his bat. They chose one of those four. To me, it had to be NMO or Lindor. And I know Lindor would like they went bold. You know me, I would go even more bold. You said you would have trade window. Fair enough. But at least I got one. And it’s nothing personal. It’s just baseball wise it had to happen. Now they also need to acknowledge that the next move that has to happen is bringing Pete back in addition to upgrading the outfield, which I think that they will, but they if they lose Pete’s bat now, I’m not aso I’m not opposed to shaking up the core, but harder to replace. They’re not getting Schwarber because he’s only a DH. They’re not get I just don’t I can’t envision that being the case. How are you replacing not only Pete but Pete and Nimmo’s office? That that’s the question. That’s the the essence of everything we’re getting to here. Let’s get to it more. So before I give you my answer and it’s a guess obviously. Who do you think’s the opening day left fielder for the Mets? It’s a great question. Um because that will then reshape or further shape my answer about Pete. I I think people could keep throwing out Bellinger. I don’t think Bellinger’s leaving the Yankees. So, I don’t think he’s gonna be an option. Okay. So, put him. So, not him. Okay. I think that there’s a chance. Now, again, I got to go over all this stuff, not just the free agents, but also trade possibilities. Well, the trade Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Sydney would be here. I think there’s a chance they move Juan Soda to left field. Okay. But then who’s playing right? Well, they’re going to they’re going to have to get a big time right fielder. Why not get a big time left fielder? You could. Who’s the guy? I’m saying either one. Well, okay. Well, if you get If you get Quan, then maybe it’s Sodto in right. And I would do that if I I just thinkwo is a perfect fit for the Yankees because you have him hitting in front of Judge obviously the defense lead off all those things pertain to the Mets. I think the Yankees actually need him more. The Mets could have a lead off hitter in Lindor or whatever, however they figure it out. The Yankees have been lacking Quan. But yes, I would be open to Quan. I also think the Mets need a little more power than the Yankees do. So I would be open to, you know, again, do I don’t think it’s realistic that they get Bellinger because I think Bellinger wants to stay with the Yankees. And I don’t think ultimately it’s realistic that they go all in for Tucker, but maybe there’s an outfielder that they could go poach, whether it be right field or left field, and you can move Sodto to left in that particular case. So, I don’t have a specific answer for you, but I don’t think it’s just as easy as okay, NMO out, go sign top free. I don’t think it’s as easy as that as it is uh as as maybe it seems in the minds of some, but it doesn’t mean you can’t get it done. So, I would vol I’ll pose in the form of a question, but I’ll give you my answer immediately. So, it’s more rhetorically which Met team would be better on paper on opening day next year, either Quan uh and and and and Tucker in left field and Bellinger at first base or Pete at first base and a similar situation in left field that I just addressed. I’ll take the better defender and but in Bellinger. And by the way, you’re saying you want you want them to get either Quan or Tucker and Bellinger? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I don’t I don’t think that that’s realistic. I I don’t think that it’s unrealistic. I mean, why not? Somebody’s going to get Tucker. Somebody’s going to get Bellinger. Now, by the way, I do think that Bellinger’s inclined to stay with the Yankees. But if you think that Bellinger would be a better night toight fit because again, sentiment sentimentalities out the window. We’re talking baseball. If and I believe that Bellinger would make the just Mets a better buttoned up for the obvious reasons. If he’s playing first base over Pete, lack of power, yeah, but everything else in his box checking. And then if you do something bold in left field, I think that that’s a better Mets team than with Pete back, you know. No, and I think that they might be thinking that. I think they need Pete back and then from there figure out which one of the available outfielders, I don’t care if it’s a right fielder or left fielder, get one one of the best available outfielders. Trade free agency. They need they need this is not now a a luxury. They now need one of the best available outfielders. They have to determine who that is. I agree with that. Now, the one caveat here is we kind of just dismiss and be like, “Ah, Bellinger wants to be Yankee.” What if the Yankees who were were hot for uh Tucker last year? Let me use a different h word, but the Yankees wanted Tucker last year. What if they revisit that and want want to go all in on Tucker this year? There’s no room for Tucker and Bellinger. It’s one of the other. The Yankees aren’t doing that. And then in that case, if the Yankees land Tucker, which I still think is possible, then maybe the Mets get Bellinger. I think Bellinger would be the perfect fit. We’ve gone over it many times. He could play center. He could play first. Think about this. Changes everything for you. If your young center fielder’s not ready to start, Bellinger could play center. And then if he’s ready, he comes in. Bellinger goes first. Or you want Pete to DH Bellinger at first base for a day. You could figure out the outfit. You get Tyrone Taylor a little action, one of the young guys, whatever. Bellinger is such a great fit for multiple teams because he plays multiple important positions. Uh could give Sto a day off and right there. There’s so many. If I could pick one, it’d probably be Bellinger would be the guy that I want. But Alonzo’s got to be back to me in any equation now. Specifically with no more NMO, they because without if they let Pete go, I can make a case that you need NMO to just be the DH and at least keep his bat healthy and in that line. Not if you let Ventos be the DH who can’t pick at the third or play the outfield or play first base hit either. I mean that’s I I know. So who’s the real Ventos? Is it the guy who was scuffling this year or the guy who looked like an all-star in the postseason two years ago? I I don’t know. Probably somewhere in between. Point is BT. This was a great move. It was fantastic. It was the first move, the first domino that when I saw that and I I guess I tweeted like five or six days ago. I’m like and we again some we’ve talked about this so I just threw it on social media. We fully expected big changes. I didn’t know that NMO would be the first one out the door. It is bold. It is proactive. Uh I think it’s really smart. Now you’ve got to do the other things which I know they are fully willing and chasing to do. More your calls when we come back. NMO Giants, whatever it is that’s on your mind. 888109 BT and S on the fan. All right, S. This Thanksgiving, FanDuel is introducing a brand new way to build a parlay together. It’s called pass the leg. Here’s how it works. Start a group build, add your pick, then pass it over to your buddies so they can add theirs as well. When everybody’s done, you each lock in the group parlay with your own funds. Football’s obviously better when it’s played and bet together. And to make it even better, everybody gets a 50% profit boost to use on their build. So maybe you start the parlay off with a Jir Gibbs anytime touchdown. That’s a pretty smart bet. And then pass it on to one of your buddies and then see what they do. So on and so forth. Build it up. See what happens. Jumping on the action this Thanksgiving with past the leg. All you have to do is visit fanduel.com/bt to get going. That’s fanduel.com/bt. Play your game. We love the app around here. 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Offers are typically below market value in exchange for speed and convenience. Call for details. Football Mondays on the fan are sponsored by Oxford Health Plans from United Healthcare. Time to pick a health plan for your business. Visit uhc.com/oxford today. What’s happening everybody? St. John should be lined up for an amazing season, year three with Rick Patino and I’m absolutely hyped to talk about the Johnny’s here on the fan. Let’s go Red Storm. Sullivan Payne is fueling that fire as an official sponsor of the Red Storm as our presenting sponsor of the Brandon Tierney Johnny’s Report, bringing you every clutch moment on WFAN. One of New York’s top personal injury firms and general counsel to the New York City Firefighters Union. Sullivan Pepin is New York’s team fighting for New Yorkers and our city’s bravest with the same heart as the Johnny’s led by coach Rick Patino. Talk about winning teams on the court and in the courtroom. 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Experience EV luxury like never before at the season’s best sales event. Visit your TriState Cadillac dealer. Get the scuttlebutt on your favorite team, the fan, on the Odyssey iHeart and TuneIn apps. [Music] BT and cell back on the fan. 888 8081019 is the number to call. Let’s get some calls in here. Can’t believe it’s Thanksgiving week already. So short work week for us here. Uh I’ll be here Wednesday. I know you got to fly to uh your in-laws in in Dallas. Yeah. Heading out to Big D. Going to the game. We could do. I got I got the tickets. You’re going to the game? Going to the Chiefs Cowboys game on Thursday. Oh, yeah. The whole family. You got what? 10 people? Well, I got four. That’s four is your family? Yes. But aren’t you going to the in-laws? Uh yeah. And see you in 5 hours when I get back from the game. Well, is the plan still to go all go together in T? I don’t know. I I literally just found out this morning that that we’ve got the ticket. So hopefully they can uh you know do something there. That’s a them problem. Uh you know I don’t know if I want to frame it that way, but it’s not a me problem. Put it that way. That’s going to be great. I’m excited. Jen’s pumped up too. So obviously that’s that’s Thursday. And by the way, it’s a huge week with or it’s a huge day with the football. There’s good matchups on Thanksgiving for a change. And that Cowboys Chiefs game is even more important now that the Cowboys were able to come back yesterday and obviously the Chiefs able to come back and kind of keep their season uh hanging on by a thread. So that’s an enormous football game on Thursday. Very surprised Kansas City came back and win. Much much much much much smaller issue every time the Colts lose. That’s good for the Jets. That helps. And can I just tell you, I mean, is there a better uniform than the one the Eagles wore yesterday? I I was actually showing my wife like, “Look at that uniform. It’s phenomenal.” She’s like, “What is it new?” I’m like, “Well, no, it’s it’s old.” She wasn’t impressed. Forget it. I don’t care. I mean, but yes, I green shoes. And I hate that the lines were in black. I like the I like the lines. The lines helmets were sick yesterday. I like the traditional Well, I mean on Thanksgiving, I’m hoping we get the Honolulu blue. I think we will. As I heard Bob Papa describing it. BT BT and Sal the Fed 888 101. Carl Banks got to be happy today. No, Carl’s been a little uh a little agitated this year on the tweets and on the air. I mean, Carl’s been letting it fly, but now that No. Um, he got his wish, I guess, that chain’s out. I mean, that um Bowen Bowen is out. Yeah, he’s been he’s been potting that for a while. I don’t blame him. You mean I think we all thought that he should have been gone. BT and Sal on the fan. Back to the calls here. 888 8081019 NMO trade and the Giant stuff. Johnny in Ocean, New Jersey on NMO. What’s up, Johnny? All right. Uh, first of all, I I just heard you guys say that what they did was a smart move by trading NMO. I just want to ask you one thing. Since Sterns has been here, what one trade or move has he made that has been good? And don’t say so because that was all Alex Cohen and I still don’t like that. I got one for you. I mean, first of all, the first I’m going to give you a couple now. He’s probably about a C in my book so far. But there’s been some good ones. He he got a Glaciius to a minor league contract. That’s one of the reasons he made the playoffs two years ago. He signed Maniah, who was phenomenal the final 20 starts. He’s done some stuff. What did Maniah do last year? Man Blackburn. Johnny. Johnny. Johnny, instead of rehashing Stern’s 2-year history, why don’t you tell us why you think it’s a bad trade? First of all, you sign a 35 year old to play second base, right? You have uh the door is 33 years old. If you put Pete at first, he’s he’s he’s 31 years old. You just have greeted the entire infield. I don’t care if you’re saying it’s a better defensive infield. It’s not. No. No. It is actually. It is. Do Do you know anything about Simeon? If not, we’ll educate you. But do you know anything about I do I’ve seen him play. play and I’ve seen NMO play and I think NMOU NMO was the worst move. Did you hear the damn well trade? Yeah, of course. Well, I mean listen, unless NMO starts taking steroids like Lenny, it’s not going to be the same thing. I saw that on social media last night. Are you guys sense okay well can you can you actually make a good one cuz so far what you’ve said not once have I heard anything as better today. Yes, I do. Are better today? I do. I absolutely do better today. It paves. How are they better today? Johnny, I’ll I’ll explain it to you if you if you want to listen for a second. So, you know about Simeon. Do you know what he did defensively a year ago? What a gold glove. Correct. So, now they have a gold glove second baseman, an actual second baseman who’s a proven offensive player, even on the decline. He still has some potential offensive, but now they have a second baseman, an elite level defensive second baseman. And they free themselves up in the outfield to get better than what Brandon NMO was. All right. Who are they going to sign? Well, maybe Ballinger, maybe Tucker. Who knows? Maybe they trade for somebody else. They’re not going to sign. You know, you know Co will never sign Tucker. Why not? Why do you say that, Johnny? He just got sodto. He’s You think he’s going to give up? You think he’s going to give up a $400 million contract? $400 million. Gave up 800. Maybe. All right. And h how did we address the pitcher? Oh my god. It’s November 20. Whatever. Johnny. Johnny, you got to get Johnny. And And thank you for the call. You got to get a clue and then get back to us. Maybe by December, maybe by the time the Mets add a pitcher, you can find a way to get a clue. I I’m fine if you don’t like the trade. I’m fine with that. Now, I vely I vehemently disagree with it, but if you don’t like the trade, give me your reasons why. Not, well, who they going to get? Well, they didn’t even get a picture yet. It’s not the offseason just getting started here. Just started. Listen, and again, I know you get this. I get this. I’m going to say it once more. those who you who are really disappointed in the trade. I think a lot of that is coming from sentiment which we all get. But guys, you want to win, dude. You want to win. So, I would say this as I evaluate the trade, which I love for the Mets and I loved it as soon as I saw it, right? It some of that is based on what actually literally transpired yesterday, but also what my anticipation and expectations are the next couple of moves. And I’m pretty confident the Mets are coming to rattle the cage this off seasonason as you and I have said for months, if not years actually. This is not a one-off. First of all, getting rid of Brandon NMO, which sounds harsh because I understand how nice of a guy he was and everybody loved him. And all kidding aside, I liked him, too. But I like winning baseball games more. And you can’t let that sentiment get in in the way of practical thinking. Moving on from NMO, period. regardless of what you get back would have been the right move to make the ball club better cuz you’re going to replace him. Like you’re not just going to show up without a left fielder. Who they going to get? Who are they going to get? They’re going to get somebody. They’re they’re trying to win. Steve Cohen has told you that. Why you wouldn’t trust Cohen and Sterns is beyond me. It doesn’t mean that Stern’s going to make great moves, but they’re going to be aggressive. So moving on from NMO, who was a and I’m going to say this like limited limited player. That’s saying it kindly. You move on from NMO who you had a 5year commit. What was it? 6 years 5 years and you gave him 5 million bucks and then you know obvious. Yeah. Fiveyear commitment to left and it wasn’t expensive like the 20 million per but but he if he was still the same player it was a good deal. He’s a player that’s going the wrong way and doesn’t have a position. He’s not a good outfielder. It was a a log jam. He was clogging what the Mets can do up. So moving on from him period was going to be a plus for the ball club. In addition, okay, would you have signed Simeon to the to the deal that he’s on? No, you probably wouldn’t have. But at least you made the commitment shorter in terms of now a three-year commitment. Correct. Plus, you’re making second base better. You’ve eliminated one problem in left field and you got a position better in second base. Now, you could say, well, they could do better than Simeon. Look around the leagues at some of the top second baseman. You I don’t even want Jazz and he puts up monster numbers. Clay Torres. The Yankees couldn’t wait to get rid of him. He puts up big numbers for a second baseman. So, I’m not looking at the offense. I’m going to look at what Simeon is overall with the potential of the offense and the floor and the elite level go glove. So, you upgrade in one trade. You upgraded second base and upgraded the outfield possibilities. And you get rid of a player who was not nearly on base at the rate that he once was, which was his best characteristic. I mean, the last two years is he’s on base 32% of the time. I mean, that’s not good. Not when you’re making that money. I would guess and I would put money on this that on opening day the Mets have you want to look at OPS you want to be you want a nice measurement there whomever is the opening day left fielder for the Mets the starter it they’re going to have a significantly higher OPS than NMO has had the last couple of years or be an elite defender contact hitter like Juan whomever’s there will be better bingo they’re going to be better in at least some aspects maybe all aspects of it Mitch is calling from Queens what’s up Mitch Mitch hey guys how you doing I’m back on the Giants. That’s okay. Yeah. Um, two things. First, I want to say this out. Decaf coffee. It will add many years to your life. He doesn’t drink coffee. I’m the one who sips coffee during the He’s never had coffee in his life. No coffee at all. Drink it. Then I have no other advice for you. Um, Mitch, imagine if he was coming up on Wall Street in the 80s doing uh doing Coke. I mean, he’d be out of his mind, this guy. I was on I was in Wall Street and uh in the 80s. I know. God. Um, so, so basically, you know, I build companies and the Giants and even the Jets. The classic problem I see is that they don’t know what the problem is, right? And, uh, we needed a quarterback, Daniel Jones, a savior. Dable, he’s going to come. He’s going to coach. He’s the savior. Daniel Jones, he’s the problem. Dable, he’s the problem. But don’t worry because we have the our defense. Defense is going to save us. Now they’re the savior. Now they’re the problem. And I think it’s textbook not knowing what the real problem is. And the only constant over all these long years that we’ve suffered is the ownership. That is the only constant. And so as I see the problem and we’re never going to have another team, right? We’re going to be like Dallas, right? We’re going to be like J the the Jets who consistently struggle, have great players, but it never gels. It never comes together. And that’s because it’s not coming from the top, you know. Um, and I think that’s what the issue is. Now we see the Mets, right? The owner, he’s really involved with that’s going to gel. There’s no doubt about it. Yankees, not so, right? Great players, but they’re not jelling. They’re not coming together. Yeah. But but hold on. But but one thing, Mitch, you can’t And I’m I’m with you on the Mets. I’m bullish on the Mets as well. You can’t sit here and say that the Mets are jelling when they won 83 games and didn’t even make the playoffs and the Yankees, you know, won 194 and won a round and and they’re not jelling. They’re not perfect, but that’s not fair. No, no, I’m saying they have a m they have ownership, right? They have ownership that’s really really working to make a winning team and looking to make changes and open to ideas. It’s the ownership is what I’m saying. It’s not necessarily the team, right? And so, uh, I think that the Giants, we don’t know what the problem is. Now, we get rid of the defensive coach. Now, we need a new head coach. Now, we got to bring in new general manager. I don’t know if those are the problems. The good news is you don’t need a quarterback, Mitch. That’s the good news. Yes, I I agree with you. But we felt the same way about Daniel Jones. Not like this. So I But I agree with you. He’s great. But we started to use him incorrectly. Right now, there’s a difference between having a scrambling quarterback and having a running quarterback. I do not believe in this league you can have a running quarterback. You can’t design plays around the quarterback running. It’s just too dangerous. And we’re seeing that now. Having a scrambling quarterback is great because what are you going to do? As a matter of fact, you need a scrambling quarterback in today’s NFL. Absolutely, S. 100%. And and and so once we start designing plays, right, around the quarterback, he could be hurt. We don’t know what’s going on, you know, and that’s the other thing is we really don’t know the health of these players, right? And and especially Daniel uh uh Dart, which is so so critical right now. And you know, if you have a great quarterback, absolutely. Uh, but I I really don’t think we we can play him the same way we’re playing him, right? But I do think that we really don’t know what the problem is. And yes, we have a great quarterback. Beautiful. We have actually a great backup quarterback, too. I mean, how often does that happen? If we can, but also Mitch, come on. Listen, Mitch, it seems like you need some decaf. And we appreciate the call and Mitch was going on a roll. We appreciate the passion uh and you taking the time to call here. Uh, I need to see what CFKA and Dart can do together. I I’m very curious to see what that offense will look like. I’m assuming Dart’s going to be clear now. Maybe it’s a big assumption. We shouldn’t make that, but I would assume by Monday night. I would think so. Well, if he was closed this week, I would think so. And then then that’s an evaluation that can take place from the ownership stuff. And you’re talking about, well, that’s the one constant. Well, also with that, we need to wait and see what happens over the course of the next several months here as it pertains to the health of Mr. Mara. We don’t know. So, he’s been the one guy who’s been making the football decisions for a very long time. Let’s just see what happens over the course of the next hopefully, God willing, he gets better and everything is okay and then we can go from there. But even that right now, I would say is uncertain what’s going on. Yeah. And listen, if you guys are new to the show or you didn’t hear, you know, there there’s just a level of of sensitivity from from this show, from the station for that situation. So, it is what it is. We know that. Um, obviously I I agree with what Sal just said, the other stuff about the Giants ownership, but Mitch was a good call. really good call, but it was an really a massive contradiction because he said a million times, we don’t know what the problem is, but then he said he talked about ownership and that has been a bit of a threat here that the Giants obviously need to soar through as as we obviously know 8 808 1019 speed the fan. Think about that though. They have a really good starter and they got a really good backup. I mean, and yet they’re a mess. They got two wins. All right, we’ll get to the NMO stuff. More on that. Get back to the Cole’s Giant stuff as well. Hey, Total Orthopedics, Long Island’s premier immediate orthopedic practice. So whether it’s a sports related injury or something a little more complex, Total Ortho has locations throughout Long Island with diagnostic equipment right on site. Now they offer four convenient walk-in services. 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Weather brought to you by Staples. Have an easy holiday at Staples. Save on top tech and gaming gifts, shipping supplies and services to get your packages there safely. Even custom cards and wrapping paper. Staples. That was easy. Like most car buyers, you want to get the most for your money. That’s why more Mazda buyers choose Ramsay Mazda. Get an impressive offer on a new Mazda CX-5 starting at 28,319 during the more to move you sales event. Over 1,000 new Mazda vehicles to choose from. Visit ramseymazda.com. Get the most for your money at Ramsey Mazda. Choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Beware the holiday buffering. Who are you? The ghost of internet past here to slow down right when your guests arrive. Not this year. We got Verizon’s 100% fiber optic home internet. Scored a limited time offer for $20 a month and locked in the price for three years. Fios home internet. That’s scary. Now we can all stream video chat and game at the same time. So buy it. 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I mean, I didn’t, but somebody in the house finally figured things out. Old three. We binged a little bit from uh we finished up late last night. So, was it was it as good as I said that it was? Did you learn from it or you knew a lot of that stuff? Uh, I obviously knew most of it. Um, but it was a while ago now. Really a while ago. And you know what I take away is, and I’ve always thought this, uh, and I thought Mike really really hit this when he was talking about A-Rod, just a good guy. he just couldn’t figure it out. Like he got in his own way. And there are certain people that that are are part of our sporting culture that you’re like, man, I I just don’t know about this guy. Um I never felt that with Alex. I always had a soft spot for Alex and it always bothered me that he complicated his whole world like and now you know why. Uh I thought it was very interesting. I think he’s I think he’s a good person. I appreciate him being forthright. He was a phenomenal player. It was well done. I’m all into docs right now. So, I watched that one and then we were watching the BTK. Yeah, I never even heard of that. What you guys were talking some killer. Uh, yeah, dude. I don’t like that stuff. I don’t like the killers. It was another one, too, that I was watching. Oh, um, oh, it was the one about a kid who they accused him of taking his mother out on a boat. It was actually like by Block Island. You know that one too, Hoff? That I’m talking about Nathan. The Carmen family. The Carmen family killer or something like that. Yeah. I don’t know why I watched it. My wife’s like, “You want to watch something else?” I was like, “You know what? I’m kind of into this now.” It’s fun. I it’s better to me than and this is me saying like I love comedies. I have a hard time getting into it now. I’m des sensitized to You don’t laugh anymore. No, I No, but those the shows like just if you get involved in in a thriller or suspense or documentary stuff agree with that now my level of tolerance has gone up to where okay, I’m going to watch a comedy about Ted Dancing. There’s a one on Netflix that people are into which I might want to watch but it’s just it’s a comedy or it’s like a reflection of Cheers at you know what we started watching you hear the perfect couple with Nicole Kidman. Have you watched that yet? Yes, we saw that. Love that. Really good. We got into that as well. We just bang that out very fast. Those type movies. The one with uh Claire Deans as we just said is on Netflix. You mentioned that. I did not see that yet. The Who Did It drama? Those type things. Uh anyway, BT it’s on the fan. 888109 the number to call. Steve is calling from East Meadow about NMO. What’s up, Steve? Guys, what’s going on? Great show as usual. Thanks, Steve. What’s going on, bud? You know, I don’t know why these Mess fans are crying over NMO leaving. This makes the team so much better. A lot of negative stuff came out this week about him with the uh stuff he had in the locker room going on. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, he okayed the trade, so he wanted to leave. At the end of the day, this opens up left field dramatically. They save they saved us about $30 million over his contract. We’re not locked in for him for the for five years. And at the end of the day, Simeon is a gold glove second base. He’s a worldby champ. How many gold gloves does Brandon have? None. Yeah. No, no Allar appearances. This makes the team This makes the team so much better. If American I got to start crying about not winning the World Series, not trading guys away. This is ridiculous. This makes the team so much better. I don’t know why people are so upset about this. This is this is so much better for the Mets because they’re not paying attention. And thank you for the call, Steve. They they’re just your point BT was right about the sentiment behind NMO, but also they’re just not paying attention. They they look at the numbers and say, “Oh, Simeon, offensively, he stinks.” And forget the money. But the years committed to NMO was a problem because what were you going to do with a player who’s already declining? Imagine how in 3 years how it’s going to look, let alone 5 years. You would have had to have cut bait with him anyway in a couple years. So, and now you’re trading him at a point where you could actually get something back for him in Simeon that can be a useful piece whereas he might not have that same value. I think he’s going to decline rapidly. He just got that body. And by the way, so everything that you just said, I I’m with you, but and they also get some more financial room down the road, which is what the caller also said. Listen, it’s very very easy. There’s the emotional reaction. There’s the pragmatic reaction. Emotionally, Met A lot of Met fans are distressed. You’re gonna have to get over it, and you will. Uh, and I think you’ll like the team better this year. All right. Pragmatically, Met fans immediately said, “We’ll be better.” Yeah. And it’s not This is not the end. There’s a whole off season to go. It’s the beginning. This is the beginning of what needed to happen to clean up a little bit of the mess. Now, you have a second baseman. Now, you have an outfield spot open. That is what they needed. Not to mention all the pitching and and moves that they’re going to make there. All right, BT real quick though because the caller brought up the uh and I think he threw a little bit, you know, a little bit too much gas on it where he said something like, you know, it’s been uh whatever he said about fans crying over it. No, about NMO and how last week was a rough week and he was pulled. He’s talking about the Aino stuff just so people don’t really know where that’s coming from. Adavino was talking about, you know, maybe NMO was a little turned off by the thought that Lindor was going to be the captain. Obviously, he fancies himself a leader. That’s my my insertion, not not being necessarily. Yeah, I I got you. And you know, the fact that the last couple of years starting on this show with you, all right, I never really disagreed and we got pounded for this. on this show, on this station, we wondered the chemistry, the fit, the direction, the DNA of the clubhouse. And a lot of you resented that. And we admitted we couldn’t quite pinpoint it. It was like there were some generalities among strong opinions, but is Pete aloof? Is Lindor selfish? Is NMO the pro? like maybe maybe in a in in an unexpected way maybe NMA was more of an issue than we thought because to consent to being traded when he’s got a no trade after some of the stuff said and I like the guy I know he’s a good dude but good people could get could run their course at a certain spot or or maybe he saw a different issue and he wanted to get out. Correct. It’s possible. I mean it it could be that I think that’s more likely than than not. I would still go the other way, but either way, whichever one it is, it’s very likely one of the two, which spoke to the the importance of the Mets changing up their roster. Yeah, really. Yeah. I wouldn’t look too deep into the clubhouse chemistry and all that stuff. He was a leader. I think more of a leader. Like, if I had to make a captain, I Lind NMO would have been my guy over Lindor. That’s just I’m just being honest with you based on a lot of the stuff that I’ve heard about. Now, you could hear about NMO being upset with that. Okay, fair enough. I think the two of those guys for maybe a couple years ago were maybe like the co- captains. There was a thought that Pete could have been a captain years ago. That obviously was not ever going to be the case, but there there I mean there have been reported issues. I didn’t want to go down that road because me fans are sensitive to begin with, especially on a day where NMO got traded, but I don’t think it’s because NMO was a bad guy or an issue in the clubhouse whatsoever. But clearly the dynamic was not what it needed to be. I don’t think that this solves that. I still think they have other issues that they need to figure it out. But by the way, Simeon’s a good clubhouse guy. comes in and shake things up a little bit. Yeah. And really, you know, we said this before, but it’s worth repeat. It it took somebody like Sterns who was not married emotionally to NMO or maybe even Pete at this point to make that kind of emotionless decision, which ultimately will be the right move for the Mets. BT and Sal on the fan. More your calls when we come back. Reset down with the King topic of the day. Both the Brandon NMO trade and the Giants firing Shane Bowen. It’s rumor and voad teams really sucks. It really does. But if they’re going to look like that. Yeah. And they’re going to have fun doing it. I mean, I I give them all the credit in the world. I give Capcom all the credit in the world for for calling some of these plays. So, you know who agrees with you with the field goal is Malik Neighbors, who posted and quickly deleted his cuz he wants to win. Listen to Bloomer on demand on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. This Thanksgiving, Fandal is introducing a brand new way to build a parlay together, and it’s called Pass the Leg. And here’s how it works. 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Nyquil Intense Flu, the nighttime sniffling, aching, aching, fever, best sleep with the flu medicine. Use as directed to keep out of reach of children. You can always count on Thanksgiving football with the NFL on CBS and Paramount Plus. What a catch. Touchdown. And this year’s main course is in Big D when the Cowboys host the Chiefs. Visit paramountplus.com/n to get started today. Snakes, zombies, public speaking. The list of fears is endless, but the real danger is in your hand when you’re behind the wheel. Distracted driving is what’s really scary and even deadly. Eyes forward. Don’t drive distracted. Brought to you by Nitsa and the ad council. Football season is here and just like winning teams, your engagement should be all about the best. So, if you’re ready to pop the big question this season, why not visit the experts at London Jewelers? With top-notch professionals and cutting edge technology, London Jewelers can help you select or even design the absolute perfect ring. 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Event ends 12125. My man, Dr. J. Shaw, specializing in minimally invasive and non-surgical treatments for neck, back, and sciatica, migraines, and so much more. offers pain relieving solutions. There are thousands of five-star reviews who trust Samwell Pain for all their aches and pains. Visit samwellpain.com. Wake up with boomerang mornings 6 to 10 on WFAN WFM WFM HD1 New York on Odyssey Sports Station. WF Sports. Good afternoon at 12:03. I’m Andrew Bogish. Sports Flash is sponsored by Chef IQ. Precision cooking, effortless results. chefiq.com. By Dr. J. Shaw, Samwell Pain Management. Visit samwellpane.com. And by Townfire Tired. Nobody beats Town Fair Tired. Nobody. The Giants didn’t fire Shane Bowen earlier this season. They didn’t let go of their defensive coordinator when divorcing Brian Dable. And Bowen survived that Packer loss, but not yesterday’s collapse in Detroit. Mike Copka firing Bowen this morning. when I got the job, you know, quickly. I didn’t want to make a lot of rash decisions and jump to anything really quick. I wanted to have some time to sit back, evaluate it, look at it, and kind of figure out what what the best best best thing to do was. So, you know, wanted to be um wanted to be, you know, calculated on how I handled it. And, you know, I thought that today was the right time. The interim coach saying the decision was his alone. He made it after reviewing game film. He also made it after saying postgame yesterday. He had plenty of confidence still in Bowen and his staff. Outside linebackers coach Charlie Bullan is the interim replacement. The Giants next game is next Monday night. Tonight it’s the Niners hosting the Panthers. Westwood one coverage beginning at 7:20 on 6:60 a.m. because of Nets basketball. On the AM side later this hour, Ruters meets number 20 Tennessee at the Player Era Festival in Vegas. And the Brandon NMO trade is now official. David Sterns about to discuss it with reporters. Fan weather is sponsored by the United Healthcare Medicare store in Jackson Heights. It’s 51 and sunny in Central Park and that’s what’s happening. Sports flashes come up every hour. I’m Andrew Boge. Get connected with WFAN to talk about your favorite teams. The fan on the Odyssey iHeart in Salakata back on the fan down the king topic of the day and really uh it’s a dual king dueling kings where we have the Mets making a big trade with Brandon Nemo from Marcus Simeon. It became official today. We’ll hear from David Sterns in just a little bit. Hoff will get us all that sound from Sterns addressing the media on why he made the trade. I would assume we get some good answers there. And then BT, not only the Giants losing a game in similar fashion to what we’ve seen all year long, but also making the change a defensive coordinator. the long awaited change that everybody’s been looking for. Shane Bowen finally out for the Giants. I I really can’t think of I’m sure there may have been one that I’m just mentally omitting. Uh but has there ever been such a calling for somebody to get fired where it just didn’t happen for like as long as it didn’t happen for? I don’t know. I mean, maybe I’m maybe I’m just again just kind of glossing over something that’s fairly recent. Whatever. Point is, it had to happen. Uh I am looking forward to hearing from Sterns. It’s a big big trade. It’s a big big moment for the Mets organization. So we’ll play some of that back as South said. But pertaining to the Giants there, the DC was not going to be back next year. Everybody on the planet knows that. And I do give Cathka credit for, you know, rather than caving into the masses with the pitchforks and whacking them right away. Uh I think he did what a smart adult does. He walks into a situation, he evaluates it for himself, and then he makes a decision. WFA and NFL football powered by Verizon. Get to your local Verizon store today. So Sterns is addressing the media right now. Here’s the first cut for you. Sterns talking about saying goodbye to a beloved Met and Brandon NMO. Hi everyone. Thanks a lot for um hopping on. I’ll start by just thanking Brandon and his family for an incredible career with the Mets. You know, from from the moment the Mets drafted Brandon, he did everything right here. Um he represented the organization exceptionally well on and off the field. Um a and really was a a great um a great Met. Um you know, we we wish Brandon and his entire family nothing but the best as they embark on the next phase of of Brandon’s career with the Texas Rangers. We’re also really excited to add Marcus Simeon to our organization. Marcus brings an elite level of defense. He’s one of the best defensive infielders in baseball and has been for a number of years. Um, he’s a winner. Uh, he brings a a winning drive and determination that we think is going to fit well in our clubhouse and he balances our lineup from the right side, which is something we we were seeking to do. So, very happy um to be able to bring Marcus in. And beyond the the immediate player return part of this deal, we think this opens us opens up possibilities and flexibility for us going forward. Both from a near-term perspective and also allowing space for a number of very young outfielders who are coming um who are talented and will deserve spots at the major league level and and to play at the major league level. And this transaction also um provides room for that to happen as we move forward. So um the these are always tough decisions. Um this was not easy. Everyone here thinks very highly of Brandon. Uh but in order to create the type of sustainable championship caliber play that we seek to have here at times these types of decisions are necessary. Amen. Perfect. Couldn’t have said it better myself. I mean, God bless. He did he did the right thing, you know. He spoke from the heart right away about Brandon and and and the NMO family, you know, and I’m just looking at this like Mets games played all time. Obviously, they don’t have the history of some of the other teams that have been around forever. They were born in the early 60s as you know, but you know, like Wally, think about some of these names, right? Whether it’s Bman, whether it’s Todd Hunley, whether it’s Beltron, whether it’s Keith, whether it’s G Wayne Garrett if you’re old enough, Murf or Donz, who you love, Rusty St Piaza, Brandon, Brandon NML played more games at Misili, who came up Brooklyn born was with the Mets as a kid. NMO played more met, you know, games with the Mets and all those people that I just mentioned, like, you know, he’s played a lot of games here. And I was looking, I was geeking out for a second, but I went to his baseball cube page, which gives you all the minor league stats, too. like the amount of time from 2011 to 2025 to be part of the Mets family. You know, you don’t take it lightly, but the objective is to win. And the money part of that from Sterns was now it opens up possibilities for us to do other things. Yeah, there are four or five different things that this one move does. open up the outfield for whether the young kids finding a space, potential free agent or trade, making them better defensively, right-handed, which I’m not going to go nuts about yet because they still have to build out a team, but they were looking to get more right-handed with the, you know, the bunch of infielders, a lot of them lefties. Yeah. I mean, the guy’s a winner, as he said with Simeon, great elite defensive player. It’s this is a home run for the Mets. Let go of the emotions and and get involved in what should be a better ball club now. All right, here’s more from David Sterns. Can you just walk us through the timeline of how this came about from conception like who whose idea it was at first and all the way through to I’d be curious to hear about your thoughts presenting it to NMO who obviously had to had to clear it. Yeah, this this is something that um really probably gained steam last week after the GM meetings. I think throughout the off season um Texas uh had looked at NMO as as a very attractive fit for them and we had looked at Simeon um as a potentially uh really good fit for us, but we we didn’t really line up and and um and and really start making progress on this I think toward until towards the the tail end of the GM meetings um into uh into last week. Um these are difficult deals to put together. You’re talking about um two very established players. Uh you’re talking about two players who are embedded in their uh organizations who have had success there. Um and and clearly in Brandon’s case uh you’re talking about a player with with no trade protection. Um, and and yeah, I’m going to keep the specifics of the conversation with Brandon, I think, between the two of us, but but Brandon’s Brandon’s a pro. Um, he’s the ultimate pro. Um, he was very respectful, um, considerate uh, and considered, I think, uh, throughout uh, this process. Um, he took time to digest everything, took time to speak with his representation, took time to speak with his family. um to determine uh what was best and and ultimately uh he decided to accept the trade. Brandon was obviously a you know not just a longtime player here but a fan favorite. Uh you’ve alluded to this a couple times already, but to what extent or how much do you weigh those sorts of things uh versus just a pure baseball decision in these in these matters? Yeah, like it was it was something we had to think about. Um, no question. Uh, both in terms of man reality and and the fan relationship with Brandon, but but also we have real relationships with Brandon and and our players have real relationships with Brandon, coaches do. Um, front office does. Um, and so that is that is a part of this and um that certainly makes decisions like this a little bit more challenging than they otherwise would be. Uh but at the end of the day, I still felt like this was the right decision for the organization. Yeah. And it is. And anybody can make the easy decisions. Oh well, go sign Bellinger. Go sign Sodto trade for school. These are the decisions that separate the men from the boys. And David Stern showing the ability to separate from a great guy in Brandon Emmo. It’s okay to say, “Hey, you’re a great person, high character individual, done a lot of good for this organization. Also, we believe we could be a better team without you here.” There’s no harm in that. It’s the reality of life pertaining to everything. Uh you know what’s funny? The question was really good. Uh it was something that I would have really liked to hear an honest answer for. Now that’s not a knock at Sterns. You’re you’re not going to be as forthright as as we would like you to. And what I mean by that is, you know, he said, “Well, you know, Texas like NMO and we had interest in Simeon. I get that. Clearly you guys consummated a trade. Who approached whom first?” I I just for myself, I would like to know. He said he said well he said it came up with the winter meetings. Well, he said Texas showed some interest. Yeah. And but but then he said we also had interest in in Simeon. So to me I took that as almost like well being a little evasive which by the way is smart to do. You don’t need to get into the semantics and tell us what exactly happened. Well I the only reason I asked that though is because now Nemo seemed to handle this very well. But what if NMO turned it down and he turned what if he turned it down and that story gets out? Would you know at some point it would have? You would have had a mess on your hands. Yeah. I wonder what you do in that spot. I I don’t know. And then you have to find a different suitor or or you’ve got to do something to try to make amends with that. And that’s that’s the risk of business. But it’s also the Mets knowing knowing NMO, knowing his personality, knowing he wouldn’t cause a big stink even if he opposed it and wasn’t going to contractually give them or or relinquish the you know the the the whatever you know the the no trade thing. um they they their instincts were rewarded and I also think and you know it sometimes you can tell when it’s time for change and maybe the Mets felt like from NMO’s point of view not just theirs to build a better team but maybe they thought hey maybe it’s time that he kind of wants out as well for maybe some signs that we didn’t see behind behind closed doors. Let’s listen to more from David Sterns on trading Brandon NMO. Hey David um just when you talk about wanting to give young players a chance to play and have those avenues opened up. How do you kind of square acquiring a 35-year-old at a position where you have these young players who are available and who are maybe if not already ready to contribute a year or so away from doing so. Simple. He’s better. I think the good thing about the players who um maybe have played second base for us uh over the past couple years who are a little bit younger or who may uh be coming or infielders, there’s there’s a ton of positional versatility with all of them. Um, so whether that’s uh Akuna um or Jet Williams or Ronnie Mauricio, we have a high degree of confidence that all of these guys can play multiple positions um and and can play them at a high level. And so we don’t look at uh the Simeon acquisition as necessarily blocking anyone from continuing their progression. And just how how did you um how much did you I guess wanting to change the clubhouse dynamics? Did that play a role into this trade at all? I I don’t know if it’s necessarily wanting to change the clubhouse dynamics. I think it’s a recognition that um what we did last year wasn’t good enough and and running back the exact same group um wasn’t the right thing to do. And so as we went into this, we we believed and still believe that we have to be open to anything. Um that that we shouldn’t be in a spot to take anything off the table. And ultimately, if we’re able to put to put transactions together um that we think make sense for the team both now and in the future that we have to consider them regardless of of what names may be involved. Hey David, just Semian is obviously coming off of a down year at the plate. Given his age, it points to an obvious decline. Just what makes you believe that he can rebound offensively? Yeah, I I think there’s still some underlying aspects of what he does. um that that are encouraging uh for us offensively. Um I I also think it’s notable that this is a player that could contribute to winning baseball in a variety of different ways. Um and and the bat may not actually lead the way at this point in his career. Um we think there’s there’s likely some bounce back in his offensive profile and his offensive game. Uh but what we’re counting on uh uh at the top of his skill set is the contributions he can make for us defensively. Um how he can uh perform on the bases and we think those are going to help us win games. Yeah. And then you have alluded to it a little bit. What are those intangibles from Simeon in terms of winning drive, leadership, his high character? What did you like there about him? I I think as we really began to dig in on who this person was, talk to his former teammates, former coaches, people who have been around him, this is someone who takes his craft incredibly seriously. Um someone who who does everything he can on a regular basis to get in the lineup to perform at a high level. Um practices hard and holds those expectations of his teammates as well. And I think that’s going to fit in very well for our group. And and that is why you make this trade. And that is why David Sterns had so much success in Milwaukee. Look at the Brewers team. Look at how those guys play the game. This is not a knock on NMO or anybody else that’s been here before. Sterns has yet to really put his fingerprints on this team. It’s hard to do that as a GM or president in just two plus seasons. And now this off season, maybe the most pivotal in his tenure with the Mets here. They’re going to have to have success. He’s finally going to have a chance to clean up some of the moves that were made before he got here and put his imprint on this team with guys like that. Tyrone Taylor, one of the players that he brought in. And at the time, he was an afterthought because it was all about Hower. Adrien Hower was the pitcher that they brought back. Look at the way Tyrone Taylor plays. He’s not the highest level of skill, but he’s a ball player, a dirt dog, a guy who’s going to wreck his body to make an out to catch the ball in center field. A grinder, a gamer. That’s what you’re getting with Simeon. Obviously a guy who’s getting older and maybe on the decline offensively, but those type of players BT, you talk about this all the time, help you win games in more ways than just putting the bat on the ball. It’s one of the many reasons why I like this move here for the Mets. And I thought Sterns was a very honest assessment of where Sime Simeon is right now. He even said, “Hey, listen. At this point, his bat’s probably not going to play the way it once did. You know, his bat’s probably behind some of the other things that he’s going to bring to the table.” And we know what that is. That’s, you know, speed and and defense and, you know, keeping the ball in the infield when you’re up a run. Turn two, making the plays, making the throws, pop-ups down the right field line, helping Pete out who’s not very quick and Pete’s back going to get them. And Sodo’s not a burner out there either. Those little shallow bloops. Trust me, you guys are going to love Simeon once you get over the NMO thing. And the other thing, too, is it was very hard cuz you’re right, this is his first true stamp. Sodto was bought for the other stuff. Emotionally, even with with Pete last year, probably we think that was a Cohen thing. The pitching was like a year, two years. It wasn’t no major moves. Well, think about the four best players that he inherited. Your first baseman, your left fielder, your shorts stop, and your closer. Those were all long contracts that you stepped into. Now, the Pete stuff, just based on the expiration point, they’re dealing with that now. They deal with it a year ago. We’ll see where it goes. Left field, he’s gone. Shorts stop better than Nemo obviously much less desirable contract to trade. So, what was the logical thing to try to shift right now? It was left field. BT and Sal and the fan. We’ll take a quick break. Come back with more from David Sterns on the other side. Our friends at Town Fair Tire remind you that at Town Fair Tire, you always get the guaranteed lowest price on name brand tires from Connecticut to Maine. Nobody beats Town Fair Tire. Nobody. All right, S. Operating engineers local 825 are the men and women who make our region move. Whether it’s roads, bridges, or our favorite team stadium. They build and maintain critical transportation, water, and energy infrastructure that we all rely on. And that’s why their advocacy organization elect the engineers labor employer cooperative fights for those priorities every single day. 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K A R S Cars for Kids. 1877 Cars for Kids. Donate your car today. Call 1877 cars for kids to reach a friendly live agent. Donation’s super easy and your car can be picked up as soon as tomorrow. Call us now. 1877 cars for kids. Donate your car today. Did you know you can donate real estate, too? Get the scuttle butt on your favorite team, the fan on the Odyssey iHeart and TuneIn apps. [Music] BTS out back on the fan. We’ll get back to your calls here in a little bit, but right now we’re going to continue listening on the uh Zoom call conference that president of baseball operations for the Mets, David Sterns has. So far so good. BT, love what we’re hearing from David Sterns. Let’s hear more on some of the questions the media is asking about the trade of Brandon Nemo for Marcus Simeon. Hey David, uh obviously you have a second baseman who’s been there for a while and Jeff McNeel kind of where do you view McNeel fitting into your roster at this point in time now with Semian on board? Uh, I I think Jeff, by virtue of his positional versatility, still has the ability to impact our our team in a variety of ways. What exactly that’s going to look like is probably going to have to wait until we watch the rest of the offseason unfold, but certainly his ability to play corner outfield is a help. Um, there may still be days if Simeon needs a blow where he’s playing some second base. Um, we may ask Jeff to play some first base depending on how the uh the offseason pans out. I I talked to Jeff uh yesterday. Um he understands where we’re headed. Um I think he wants to be a part of this and he understands his positional versatility is a real asset for us. And you you mentioned at one point that you know running it back from last year was not the right thing to do. At what point during that that slide over the final couple months of the season, did you as a front office come to that that conclusion that you would need to do maybe more changes than you had initially thought? And and is this enough of a change in your mind or is there more to come? So, I I I think when you’re in the moment in in going through a playoff push, you’re you’re focused on the dayto-day. Um you’re focused on trying to do everything you can to win that day. And there’s there’s offseason preparation going on. Um uh but there’s probably not that time for for real reflection on on how the team is performing at that moment. And so I think once we got into the off season and had the time to fully reflect on our team is is when I became convinced that uh you know we weren’t just going to run it back. Um that we were going to make some changes. Um you’re never know you’re never sure which changes uh are actually going to occur, which changes are actually going to be possible. Um and that’s still the case as we move forward. Um I I don’t know what the next transaction is right now. Um, but I I know we’re going to keep going in the offseason. I’m very confident we’re going to have a productive offseason. Yeah. And I’m very confident in him. I don’t know how you can’t listen to everything he said so far today. And what may be BT is one of the more transparent interviews from Sterns. Usually, it’s a lot of, well, I don’t know. We’ll wait and see this and that. This was a clear move with conviction and direction. It was a necessary, difficult, but necessary move. I don’t know how you can’t listen to anything we’ve heard so far and we’ll hear more from Sterns, but I don’t know how you can’t listen to that and feel confident about the direction of the Mets. Well, I think listen, I also think there was a chance that he maybe wanted to break up this core a year ago, but to do that, you know, the timing’s got to got to line itself up here and maybe they had some very exploratory conversations, you know, people that he trust where he knew wouldn’t get out. Uh, and there was nothing there in terms of who would want whatever he was willing to give up, what he could get back. So, maybe it just presented itself as a good opportunity. Uh, and and here you go. NML’s gone. Maybe McNeel, maybe others. We’ll see what happens. I think that you should like what you’ve heard from Sterns, but really it’s what you do. So, the first year was good. The second year was not. And this is the year that Cerns has to distinguish himself. Now, I think it’s a good step forward, moving on from a player that that I would have probably moved on from as well, but the work is just starting. And I think everybody understands that. They got a lot of work to do here. Understood. But he’s ready to do it. I mean, he when when I hear him say exactly what I was thinking and that they can’t run it back, there was a thought from a lot of people, well, just add pitching. Keep the core four intact and NMO and Alonzo and Lindor and Sto keep them intact and just add pitching. No, that’s the wrong thought process. So, for Sterns to acknowledge that basically right away after the offseason when they evaluate everything, nope, we can’t run it back. That’s the wrong thing to do. That is right. Now, will he make the right moves, all the right moves moving forward? No. I think anybody makes all the right. That’s the point. But this to me was a crucial first step. You could not run it back and they didn’t. Nobody thought they were going to be able to trade NMO and they did. Not only did they trade NMO, they got better defensively at second base. And now they have some options. They’re going to have to spend. They’re going to have to dip in the form system. They’re going to have to make some trades. Like there’s there’s a lot more to be done here. But this was a huge first domino to fall for the Well, to me it shows that that like the transformation is is underway in terms of thought process and before you do something like this, you’ve got to get to the point where you’re like, “Okay, I’m going to get knocked around a little bit. I used the term before court of public opinion.” And a lot of Met fans aren’t happy and they understand that. And Sterns doesn’t care. That’s not his job to care. His job is to build you a World Series champion. So, I feel like there’s been an awakening within the Mets organization, a realization that they got to change things up now. So, Chad, which by the way, might have been difficult for him to do in year two because they won in 2024. So, even though it was his second year and he’s probably eyeing everybody like mm- not this guy, not we need to change there. Can’t do it after they get to the NLCS in 2024. It’s not exactly the same, but it’s is it incredibly dissimilar from CFKA? We all know like we all would have fired the DC immediately, but CFKA came in and said, “All right, let me at least see if I could work with this guy.” uh and he didn’t and he couldn’t and then of course now as we know he’s made the move but yeah I think smart people come in they assess and they don’t rely on other people to tell them what what you’re inheriting or what so and so is and who they are use your own eyes and use your sporting instincts to determine yourself and that’s what he’s doing so that’s a big check in his column like an awakening this this transformational thought process check now the next thing I want to see because the money’s always whether it’s Tucker that’s Cohen Sodto Cohen Pete Cohen but now the next thing I want to see is how married is he to the prospects cuz there’s going to be a deal whether it’s a school I don’t think skins yet but there will be trades that he will either say okay I’m getting rid of everybody to get this guy or I’m reluctant that’s the next source of evaluation let’s listen to some more from Mets president David Sterns hi David how do you foresee the outfield alignment shaping up and does this increase your appetite to go after a sort of higher profile uh free agent outfielder or do you still feel like there are internal options that you can kind of plug those holes with? I I think it would be too early for me to really determine how our outfield alignment is going to going to shape up. Um look, we we clearly we’ve got Juan um Tyrone Taylor’s back with us. We’re very excited. We’ve got a number of young outfielders um including Carson Bench who we think are going to contribute at the major league level over the course of next year. As I mentioned, we think Jeff um is a contributor at the at the major league level um in the outfield next year. Jet Williams has seen some outfield time uh and we believe can play well there and and we’ve seen that in the minor leagues. Um and then there are there is the opportunity for external acquisitions and we’ve got a lot of offseason left. I I would expect us um to continue to be active in a variety of spaces to bring players in here and I think we’ll have a better feel for what all of that looks like as we get much farther into the winter and ultimately into the spring. How much do you have to sort of weigh some of the the clubhouse stuff in terms of you know NMO was the key leader, Semian’s the key leader obviously on another team, but like is sometimes some of that stuff a little bit um I don’t know overblown by the fans? I mean is it does it not um weigh as much as their onfield uh production or onfield contributions would be? I I think it’s all part of our our decision points and our evaluation of the team. um very difficult to create an equation for for how you balance onfield performance and clubhouse chemistry and clubhouse leadership and um how different pieces um within that puzzle are all going to fit together. Uh very difficult to measure any of that. Uh and so you know Brandon clearly was a very important piece a prominent piece of our clubhouse for a long time. Um, and we think Marcus is going to be able to fit in very well also. Hey, David. Um, your, uh, your first baseman, your closer are both, you know, officially free agents now. Have you had a chance to engage them u in talks extensively in talks? Excuse me. How would you characterize those um, negotiations or pursuits at this point with Alonzo and Diaz? As I’ve said before, we we we’d love to have Pete and Edwin back. They’re both great Mets. Um, I’m not going to get into any of the specifics of of any conversations that we’ve had to this point. David, if you wanted to resign Pete, resign Edwin ends, go out and get a topflight outfield acquisition, do you have the financial attitude to do that? I I think our our ownership group is and Steve is very consistent that they’re willing uh to support what we think is right from a baseball perspective. um you know, payroll space is not unending, but I am also very confident that we’re going to have um the support we need and and certainly the resources we need um to put a very good team on the field. Is is what I just described a realistic strategy for you guys this off season? Sure. Yeah. I I I think anything would be realistic right now. I mean, dude, there there’s not a person alive that doesn’t think that if Sterns presents something that he believes is incredibly sensible, no matter how aggressive it is financially, that that Cohen’s not cutting every check, he’s got them. That’s why I think you have to sit here, if you’re a Met fan, and hear that, and be excited beyond belief. This is not a bad day. It’s It’s not even a sad day. It should be an exciting day. NMO had his run. He had many opportunities. They didn’t get the job done. It’s not his fault, but they need to build a ball club here. And I don’t know what more you could ask for as a fan than an owner who’s going to be a letting the baseball people make their baseball decisions and b willing to give them whatever they need when in fact they do want to make those baseball decisions. But I could also understand why it’s a sad day. Now, what I would say is you have to be able to very quickly balance the sadness with um excitement about what the future’s going to bring. But I can see why a lot of people are down here. But but just back to So tell me why. Why? Well, because they love NMO. Come on. You go to the yard and you you got kids, you got the NMO. I get it. There’s a human element. I’ll just There’s a human element to it that that matters. Now, it shouldn’t matter to the point where it dissuades you from making a smart move for your team, but I certainly understand even as an adult, like, you know, not not just kids, like you you get connected to people. You do. And it’s a resultsoriented business. that’s all that really matters. But I think a lot of us and I’m throwing myself in the US at times have a rough time separating that and I respect it. Um I I I just think you have to understand that it’s going to lead to something better and try to find a way to emotionally navigate the sadness which I think everybody I don’t listen people who don’t like to trade today you know out of sadness whatever word you’re lamenting the absence or the loss of NMO however you want to frame it they’re not going to be walking around like this in a month this is the day after man NMO’s 32 33 he got drafted when he was 17 I understand it being being sad when Mike Piaza was nearing the end or being sad the day they traded Tom Siver or being sad to see the way the the 86 World Series team was broken apart. That’s a lot different than being sad for a guy who was a high character individual and a very likable guy. Understood all that. I personally love Brandon Imo. He he didn’t really accomplish much as a New York Mets. Yeah, but I don’t think that being said about David Wright. Yeah, that like that that I understand. Well, I mean, listen, the Saver stuff, first of all, I mean, Toby was drafted by the Mets. I mean, Saver’s on a on a mountain by himself in terms of greatness and sadness when he was dealt in the middle of night for four Reds, which was an awful dream. Look at his entire career with an awful Mets ownership. Look at NMO’s entire career. Like, the last four seasons were his best. I’m not saying you build I heard people saying you’re going to retire his number. Are you nuts? There’s no way NMO should have his and he won’t. I’m not making a case for him as some ball player that anything other than a a hard worker had a couple of good years who the fans really really connected to. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not saying he was a B minus player. The one thing that I would say though about what Stern said about whether it’s Taylor, Benj McNeel or Jet Williams like those can’t be options. Not with Soda with his prime, not with Lindor still here, especially if you bring back. Why not one of them? Well, to start the season, no, not not not based on for me where the Mets are right now. If Lindor was younger, if Pete’s back was younger, you can’t they’re not going to acquire two outfielders. They’re going to get one and they have to keep the space free. They already have one massive outfielder in Sodo. They’re probably going to make another big move. Whether that’s Tucker, Bellinger trading for one, whatever, it’s going to be one from outside and then have the third spot. Yeah, I’m I’m just not giving the keys to No, Benj might be the man. Taylor’s a good backup. I’m not giving the keys to any of those guys. McNeel was I He’s not playing center. If anything, he’s playing a little bit of left field, whatever. Um, if there were some other more stable spots around the diamond, like I like Batty and Batty very well might be the third baseman for a while, but we’re not sure. Alvarez has talent. We’re not sure. Like, there’s still things that are fluid. I can’t take a chance in center field when I’m trying to win now. That’s all I’m saying. You okay with the Yankees doing that? They did the You just have more better players, though, Sal. Well, hold on a second. The Yankees did it with Austin Wells. They And they hit 20 something home runs. BT. No, but hold up. Do you think the Yeah, you did it. You did it with Vulpi, Dominguez, and Austin Wells for years. Yeah, but you have So why can’t the Mets do it with one guy in the outfield? Because the Mets don’t have somebody that does what Judge does. They don’t. And And why don’t they have one solo? You’re the one who’s up, but he doesn’t do it. Judge. Nobody does. But you’ve been telling me that the Yankees are the one with more power. So that’s the answer. I’m talking about I’m talking about building a ball club. Well, no. Well, those are two different. I don’t like the way the Yankees have built the team. You know that what I’m saying? you, but they went into last season with enough established players that you knew Judge would bang 50, Deli would hit 25. Um, yeah, I mean, they they they took some chances. I mean, they didn’t they didn’t really know what Gisham was going to do, but they had pitching like the Yankees were a better team. Right now, the Mets have no pitching, but they’re but they’re going to get a forget about Mets or Yankees comparison. All I’m talking about you were okay with Dominguez, Wells, and Vulpi. Three unproven, not to mention Ben Rice, three unproven young guys, three going into a year where the Yankees supposed to win a World Series in Judge’s window. And the Mets can’t have one spot in the outfield to either be Benj or Williams, and I have no idea what those guys are going to be, but the idea that they can’t they’re going to now block all of those guys. That also doesn’t make any sense. Well, listen, first of all, we saw enough of Austin Wells the previous year to think that he would have some power, which he did. Now, he’s the average is what it is, and you know, maybe he’s not going to be as good as I thought. not giving up, but I wanted to see Wells and I think he had a lead off opening day last year. Either way, I was fine with Wells coming in. Matter of fact, I knew he was going to be the starting catcher. Wasn’t sold on Rice. Now, I think he’s terrific. So, that worked out for them. Vulpi’s been a disaster. We talked about that. And Dominguez was their top prospect. So, who I wanted to see play. Okay. So, so why can’t the methan cuz I’ve never seen Benj or So, what it’s It’s not about you seeing them. It’s about No, but it is though cuz that’s how I get my That’s how I base my hip. You you thought Dominguez was going to be great, but at least I saw him at Houston come up and hit home runs and hit eight home runs before he got hurt. At least I saw something. Hey, by the way, if I saw Benj, you know, for I know it was a small sample, seven, eight, nine games. I think I’d be more open to be like, oh, but in theory, so forget about the individual players. In theory, the idea of having like every good team, even the Dodgers, are going to have to rely on some of the young players to come up and contribute. So why not be okay with doing it in one spot or maybe two as opposed to three or four spots? I’m not asking to mess around a minor league team, but to say that they to it to me it would be actually stupid the other way to plug two holes in the outfield and prevent any room for those kids to go who they believe in. Not if one of those players is Bellinger and he plays some first base. Now listen, by the way, Bellinger and and then you still have versatility. You you still can use one of those young guys if need be and you save room for it. You’re not clogging up a hole. And by the way, I’m not saying not to give some some young players some some runway this year. Play Batty, play Alvarez. I know we’re what I have what I am saying is that the Mets center field situation last year was so pitiful, so substandard, and so pathetic that I have no answers on Well, I have an answer on Taylor. He’s a fourth or fifth outfield. I respect him, but he’s nothing more than that. I’ve never seen Bench do a damn thing. I’ve heard about Jet Williams for three years. Haven’t seen him do a damn thing yet. And I don’t know anything. And McNeel can’t play center. So, all I’m saying is you could go with some young guys in certain spots. I’m not saying you can’t. Every team does. But you cannot have center field be the worst by far situation in baseball. Again, that I can’t do. But I can’t have any of those guys playing center field. It’s pretty clear. It makes no sense. What do you mean? I just want you to No, no, no. It’s not. It’s not. It’s about your belief. You like young guys more than anybody. And now with the Mets, you’re saying that they can’t have one. You don’t know anything about car. I We We can’t We got to get back to this. We got to pick this. No, but but I’m serious. So, we don’t have to break. I’ll keep going. You tell me what to do. We breaking. We go. I don’t want I want to keep going with this. We’re going to listen to the last two on David Sterns here and then we can get back to that. Go ahead. Play the last two from St. I know you only overlapped with Brandon in Queens for two years, but when you look back on, you know, the entirety of his Mets tenure, what sticks out to you? Look, I I think it’s the relationships that Brandon was able to create throughout our organization and the community. And I think that speaks to um his authenticity and that connected with a lot of people and um he deserves a lot of credit for that. Um and I think that’s what we’ll miss most. Just one more on NMO. How much did his re recent injury history change the value of his 8-year contract that he originally signed, especially with the repeating neck injury that would take him out sometimes? I don’t know. I I think I think Brandon posts pretty well. Um and and look, they’re going to be nagging injuries for any player, especially as as you get into these stages of their careers, but um Brandon did everything in his power to get on the field, and clearly more nights than not, he was out there playing left field for us. All right, so that’s it for Sterns on NMO. I I thought that he handled himself extremely well there. I am excited about the future for the Mets. I’m also not expecting them to go out there and get Tucker and Bellinger or, you know, Bader and Bellinger. I think that they’re going to do exactly what he said. probably keep one of those spots open for a young guy, which I’m okay with. Who that is? We’ll find out. I know they’re high on bench. Who the hell knows, but I would be okay with that, assuming that they get one big outfielder in another way, whether it’s free agency or via. I thought he sounded really good. I know something else big is coming. That’s why Met fans should feel really good about this. He is now doing what he wanted to do when he was hired. Um, you know, I I think that and I I don’t know about I have no idea where Tucker’s going. It’s such a weird read. I know they’re going to go after Bellinger. there’s a chance the Mets might get him. But just to finish the conversation before, like you haven’t once heard me say Spencer Jones should start next year or Lumbard should I’ve never seen them play. So now you are right about this. You said before that I generally like the younger players more than most. I agree with that. Like I But if I haven’t laid eyes on you, I’m not going to give you any sort of runway. I’m not going to prop you up without any basis even if it’s a small sample because that’s stupid. I’ve never Jones strikes out a ton. I’ve seen the highlight home runs that go 500 ft basically. I don’t know if he could play and I know and I’ve never seen Lumbard outside of spring training when he got a little look with the Yankees down in Tampa. The difference was at least with Dominguez out number one he was the Yankees number one prospect and at least I saw him in the majors when he got cold up in Houston. and he looked like we were joking around Mickey Mle, you know, switching Mickey M could run. He’s got pop. He’s got this. He’s got All right, let’s give him a little room. Let’s see what he could do. So, to me, the Dominguez, what’s the uh the willingness to play Dominguez, I I just I just described why. Whereas with Taylor, I’m not looking to get Taylor off the Mets. He’s a great clubhouse guy. He’s a perfect, you know, extra outfielder. I’ve never seen Bench, which ties into me saying like I’ve never seen Jones, so that’s why I can’t give it a bench. McNeel ain’t it. And I’ve never seen Ched Williams. If there was a guy like I’ll tell you this, if you said Alonzo gets blown away by the Red Sox eight years, it’s not gonna happen. Uh, and he leaves, I would say, maybe you get Breman, whatever. But I’d put Brett Patty over at first base because at least I’ve seen him enough to think he’s got the hands and the requisite talents to be a functional first baseman and I think he’s going to hit. So, it’s it’s not just saying that the Yankees should play young players and the Mets shouldn’t. It’s seeing a couple of these and we just throw out five or six names. Seeing a few of them and then getting an early read whether it’s right or wrong on what I think they could be in the majors. That’s all I’m saying. BT and S on the fan. We’ll take a quick break. We’ll come back maybe get some of your calls in here. Also at 1:00 we’ll have Hal Steinbrunner who spoke as well. Come on Hal, you better say something good today buddy. We’ll do the same thing that we just did with Sterns. We’ll do that with Hal. Coming up at 1:00. It’s Evan and Tiki afternoons on the fan 1019 FM. Brian Burns who up until yesterday because of Miles Garrett’s prolific sack totals he’s going to put up this season was leading the league in sacks. Brian Burns has been fantastic. Dex actually in the earlyies in these games is getting pressure. Kavon Tibido for when he was healthy and Abdul Carter they’re supposed to be dominant but it’s hard to be dominant when offenses know exactly what you’re going to do. Listen to Evan and Keith on demand on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Maggie Gray with an Odyssey Sports Minute. Despite multiple deep playoff runs and Super Bowl appearances, the 49ers first round draft pick misfires can be brutal. Trey Lance flopped and now Brandon Iayuk looks like the next big warning sign. 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And if you haven’t heard, Flag Anthem just signed twotime champion quarterback Eli Manning as an ambassador, so you know their clothes are legit. Whether you’re upgrading your closet or knocking out holiday gifts, this is the time to load up. Visit flaganthem.com and shop the Black Friday sale, plus a free gift with purchase every day through Cyber Monday. Flag and Anthem premium clothes without the premium price tag. Talk New York Sports here. The fan BTL back on the fan. And we’ll get back to the calls next hour and we’ll hear from Hal Steinber. So you heard from president of the baseball operations David Sterns. Now I have not heard any snippets of how yet. I think the thing just ended so Hoff and Dove they’ve been cutting up whatever. We’re going to play it when we come back. Got to take a quick break and then come back. Is there anything in particular BT you’re looking to hear from Hal? I am just curious. Uh and he’s going to be asked about any financial limitations per se luxury tax stuff. Right. I want to hear if we hear the usual stuff or if we get a little trace of more aggression from my guy Howal. Good point. It’s not about what I want to hear. It’s about what I don’t want to hear. I don’t want to hear how again reference the luxury tax threshold. I just don’t want to hear it. It’s time to go big. I’m curious to get his take on see the I don’t know if the Yankees are going to acknowledge. Now, again, their their version of failure is far different from the Mets. Like they fell by winning 94 games and falling short of a World Series. The Mets fail by not making the postseason. But at least Sterns can say definitively it wasn’t good enough. I’m not running it back. It wasn’t good enough. Here’s the guy who could help us in this way, that way, this way. And yet with Cashman and the Yankees, it’s always like they believe they’re good enough and they just get unlucky in the postseason and they continue to add the same players every year. So I I wonder if there’s going to be a different feel from Hal, but I I highly doubt that we’ll hear much different from what we’ve heard years before. I wish I could possess his body for 10 minutes and just do the do the press conference for him and like whatever I say he has to do. You know, it’s funny cuz we were talking about the A-Rod, the Alex versus A-Rod documentary, which I was finally able to get the QR code on the remote, whatever, watch it as I told S early. I binged it over the weekend and like we all know 2009 20 I think Yankees got A-Rod and C boy, they had a right. They got Cece and Tasher and AJ Bernett. They spent a quarter of a billion dollars and that’s the last time they won. We all know that, right? But watching the some of the highlights from the09 World Series and then some of the failures after it, you know, getting bounced in certain situations in the playoffs and then eventually, you know, Alex moving on and and the continuation of no championship since 09, like it’s one thing to know it and have lived through it, but then when you watch footage of the ’09 season as as I did again, it’s like, man, it feels like if you could say it’s 30 years, it feels that long ago. So, I would like to get aggressive. Howal, maybe a little combative Howal. I don’t think that that’s the how that we get. BT and Sal on the Fan. We’ll take a break. We’ll come back and hear from Hal on the fan. It may be the off season for the Bombers and Amazins, but there’s no offse for Yankees and Mets talk. 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Visit totalorexpress.com today. Marcus Simeon is run prevention in the flesh. The Mets new gold glove second baseman, David Sterns, though well aware he is no longer a major offensive threat. We think there’s there’s likely some bounce back in his offensive profile and his offensive game. Uh but what we’re counting on uh uh at the top of his skill set is the contributions he can make for us defensively. Um how he can uh perform on the bases and we think those are going to help us win games. Stern spoke with Jeff McNeel about this Brandon NMO trade yesterday. He said McNeel still has value to the team because he can play multiple positions including first base possibly depending on how the offseason plays out. Stern’s also saying he believes McNeel wants to be a part of what’s coming next. The Giants fire defensive coordinator Shane Bowen this morning. Outside linebackers coach Charlie Bullen is the interim replacement and it’s a busy afternoon of local college hoops. Ruters about the tip off with number 20 Tennessee in Vegas on 6:60 a.m. St. John’s has a 4:30 tip in Vegas against Iowa State. Fan weather is sponsored by Ray Cina, Mercedes-Benz of Edison. It’s 50 and sunny in Central Park and that’s what’s happening. Sports flashes top of every hour. I’m Andrew Bogen. Get connected with WFAN to talk about your favorite teams, the fan on the Odyssey iHeart and TuneIn apps. PT and show on the fan presented by your tri-state Cadillac dealers. Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York Giants. We spoke about it before. How Steiner met the media today, I guess, in his yearly uh year end zoom. I have no idea. I didn’t get a sneak peek on social media. I know you said you did see one thing. Let’s listen to it here together. Hal Steinburner talking about the Yankees disappointing season as obviously they fall short yet again of another World Series. Here’s Hal. Hey Hal, thank you for taking the time today. We appreciate it. Um, you’ve mentioned in the past that a payroll in $300 million range is not sustainable, but you’ve also exceeded that figure the last two seasons. Are you willing to go over 300 million again and or do you intend to be below that number? First question of the day. My goodness. Look, I know you guys want a number. Uh, we finished this year at 319 million actually was the final number. Uh so just s you know shy of 320 it’s the same every year. What I tell Cashman is I want to know all the possibilities that are out there. I will talk to all your people about them. I will hear them out and I will decide whether or not I’m able or willing to uh to pull the trigger on them. And it’s not going to be any different this year. I mean it it’s it’s not like I’m giving my head of marketing an advertising budget. Here’s how much you can spend on advertising this year. I mean they know what a billboard costs. They know what a 30 secondond ad costs. I can give them a number and in 10 minutes they’re going to know exactly what they’re what they’re going to do and what they’re not going to be able to do. This is a much more fluid situation. I mean, we don’t know what’s out there as far as possibilities. And the possibilities that we do know are out there, we don’t know what they’re going to cost. I mean, it’s way too early for that at this point in time. So, it’s a very difficult thing to do. I mean, we we can talk before he goes into winter meetings about a range, but because it’s a fluid situation, that range can go bye-bye in 2 seconds if there’s a deal that, you know, arises that I feel uh would be very beneficial to some area of need that we have. So, it’s it’s hard to it’s hard to give you a number. That’s what I’m trying to say. It’s it’s it’s a different deal. Understood. And just to follow up on that, with the CBA set to expire after next season, there’s some uncertainty over the games financial parameters going forward. Just will those uncertainties impact how you guys approach the offseason and if so, how? No. What’s going to impact again is what the number is and what uh you know what the what luxury tax that creates the amount and how that looks in our overall financial situation. I mean, that’s that’s all that that’s all that matters. Al, I know your focus has surely already shifted to 2026, but when you reflect on 2025, what most encouraged you about this team? What most disappointed you about this team? Well, what most encouraged me about the team is um how well they played together, how incredible they had each other’s backs, how incredible the clubhouse was. Um you know, they they like many teams we’ve had in the past never thought they were out of it. never thought they were going to lose a game. And you know, when you when they had a tough loss, the next day it’s almost like it didn’t happen. They just bounced right back. Um what was disappointing obviously was the result. Um I didn’t like that six, seven week period that we had where we were making mistakes, not playing good baseball, not hitting. Uh that can’t happen every year in in my opinion, but it does. Um and certainly what happened in the postseason was disappointing. We went in healthy. We went in, in my opinion, playing good ball. and um got through that first tough series and I really thought we were going to go on a roll and we just quit hitting and you know our pitching faltered as well. I think somebody told me we gave up 34 runs in 34 innings. That’s you’re not going to beat the Blue Jays as good a team as they are doing that. So it was disappointing. Um it was disappointing. Okay, so a couple of things there obviously um you know and how was having some fun with it. H first question of the day. But but that isn’t that kind of where we are. It’s not an out- of- bounds question. I mean, that’s pretty much the biggest question of the Yankees and around the Yankees every year. Not are they going to spend, but is there a drop dead amount? And not because we’re making this up. It’s because Hal has spoken about this in the past. Right now, I remember you said before we actually played some of those cuts from Hal that I saw something on social media. Yeah. Um I and I want I want to read this to you. Now, House said it’s not fair to assume that the Yankees make a profit. That’s the this Brian Hulk had this right. Quote, I don’t want to get into it, but that’s not a fair statement or an accurate one. Everybody wants to talk about revenues, but they need to talk about our expenses, including and this we heard this a couple years ago, the $100 million expense to the city of New York that we have to pay on February 1st every year, including the co year. So, it all adds up in a hurry. I’m not saying that that’s not true. It it is. I just don’t want to hear it. The Yankees are worth $8 billion. 8 billion was their most recent valuation. number one in baseball. The Mets, I think, were sixth at 3.1 billion. The Yankees generated 75 million. The Mets 446. Anybody asking Cohen what he’s going to spend? No. And if they did, if they did, what do you think he’d say? Whatever it takes to do it. Yeah, it’s a Hamlet, it’s very simple. It it Oh, first question right out of the gate. Yeah, because you used to operate one way. Other teams have now passed you by. You continue to reference the luxury tax threshold. Obviously, it’s not working. So, if the Dodgers can just have no limits and the Mets can have no limits, then the Yankees should also have no limits. So, I didn’t think he handled it poorly, but it’s a very simple answer. We will do whatever it takes to build a winning ball club. Yeah. And listen, you have to be true to yourself. This applies to Sterns when he spoke, which I think he was. And I think this is who Hal is. I think Hal is an incredibly likable gentleman. I I really do. I’m fond of of him as a I think he’s a good guy, but I I you know, that’s that doesn’t really matter that much anymore. And I just for once would like to hear an agitated houseer. Not about the financial questions about the state of his Yankees who have not won since 2009. Sports Dog on the Fan presented by Paramount Plus. Count on Sundays all season long with the NFL on CBS and Paramount Plus. Here’s more with Hal. How when you look at 2026, Cody Bellinger very productive, fit in very seamlessly. on your off season checklist, how much of a priority is trying to bring Bellinger back? Not going to get into free agents, check, you know that. Um, we’re looking at every area of need and we will deem which needs are most significant and which aren’t. Uh, we still need another outfielder. We have options. Um, you know, we need to improve the bullpen for sure. I I really love our starting rotation next year. We got to get through April uh and get Cole back and Rodon back, but it’s it’s going to be an incredible rotation if if everybody comes back as planned and uh I think we’re pretty good on the infield as well. Um but we’re going to look at all options like we always do uh as I just said and see what uh what’s possible and what’s not. The Blue Jays run, they hit behind the runner. They strike out less often. They play solid defense. They made it to game seven of the World Series for so many years. The Blue Jays want it to be like the Yankees. Do the Yankees want to be like the Blue Jays now? Well, look, I think I think balance in life is everything. I mean, they’ve obviously they slug the ball, too. It’s not just putting balls in play. They definitely slug the ball. Um, hitting strikes hard, uh, particularly in the air. Not that you’re trying to hit it over the fence, but in the air, uh, statistically speaking, the results speak for themselves. I mean, you have a better chance of success when you do that. But we try to, you know, become more balanced picking up guys like Jazz, uh, guys that can put the ball into play. So, I do think you need that. You can’t simply be a slugging home run team. Uh, they had a great year. Uh, I’m curious to see next year how how well they do um with that roster, assuming it stays mostly intact. But they were a great team. They they definitely played better than us. They slug better than us and they hit the ball and put it in play better than us and they pitch better than us and that’s that’s why uh that’s why they won. See how basically saying well infield set rotation looking good need another outfielder. What does that mean bringing Bellinger back? They’re going they’re going to run it back again. You know it’s funny you say that cuz I I jotted the same thing down because he was talking about the pitching which I totally agreed. The pitching has a chance to be the best in baseball. Got to get some guys healthy, whatever. But then when he said quote we’re pretty good on the infield. Hold on a second. Tosher Canó Jeter A-Rod versus Rice Gisham Cabayro/Vi and McMahon Jazz. You said Gisham, but you get good god. I mean that’s it’s a little worrisome. It’s worrisome in that I’d like to hear a little more of what Stern said in it wasn’t good enough and we know that we need to change it up. And it sounds like now I still think the Yankees going to make some moves here. To what extent? I have no idea. But it can’t just be we’ll bring Bellinger back and we’re going to have a better rotation because Cole’s coming back. And this is something that you thought that might be the case with the Yankees. Um there’s no way that could be the case. They can’t be that stupid to think that you could just run it back and have Garrick Cole come back and everything’s going to be great. No, it’s not good enough. First base wasn’t good enough. Catcher wasn’t good enough. Third base wasn’t good enough. Short stop wasn’t good enough. Second base at best is inconsistent. I wouldn’t go with Jack. Like they they are they have issues here. You got to restructure this thing. Oh yeah. I mean they got a center fielder who’s getting $22 million that I wish he didn’t sign it. I wish he wasn’t on the team next year. I I I said that. You know, there’s so many other things I want to hear from Hal and I’m sure we’ll get to like the Japanese market to me is a very interesting question at this point. But the you know the the thought that the Yankees and I remember saying this to you a week or so, maybe two weeks ago. Now, I’m not saying that this would work, but it’s it’s not a bad route if that’s what you’re going to do. If they were to go all in on school and give up whatever it would take to get schoolable and they try and they don’t do much else except bringing back Bellinger, that’s acceptable to me. If they go into the into now, they’d have to get a little bit of bullpen work as well, but I’m talking about the main ingredient bullpen like we we all understand that and Cashman’s very good at fixing that. So, I almost don’t even worry about that. And Benor seemed to be very good fit for New York at the back end. But if you go into next season and once you get past April and you got Scooble and you got Freed and you got Cole and you got Schlitler and you got Raldon and you got Clark Schmidt coming back in, you know, August and even Will Warren, he’d probably have to trade and then you bring back Bellinger and you have Judge. Well, that’s a chance to win a World Series differently. But without a school or a skins type of trade and just Bellinger, you don’t win. Yeah, I still wouldn’t I still wouldn’t do that myself in that in that hypothetical. I would look to maybe move from one of the starters, let’s say Rodon, if you could somehow get somebody to take on his remaining salary and then use that piece, let’s say, to get a third baseman or upgrade in a in a certain way. Maybe get a different catcher in here. I just don’t like the way the Yankees are built with the first base situation, DH situ situation, catcher, third, short. I mean, there are a lot outfield I wouldn’t worry about. Especially if you bring Bellinger back, I think they’d be okay in the outfield. I don’t I don’t listen, I don’t have a leadoff hitter. I mean, we talked about that. I don’t deflect that. You’re right. I mean, there’s a lot of positions and they’re going to address some of them obviously. Uh, but McMahon was acquired last year and McMahon’s going to play this year and you know, Gisham did what he what he did a year ago and he’s probably going to bat first again this year unless you get Quan, which we’ll see. Yeah, it it’s a very imperfect team. The good thing is you got Judge, you got a couple of top level pitchers and and you’ve got a payroll that’s going to be very competitive, but they got to go the extra mile. I mean, Aaron Judge’s prime, tick, tick, tick. Let’s hear more from Hal. Hal, is the Yankees mantra still World Series or bust? I know I’ve asked you that before. And is that realistic? At a boy, Bruce, I I certainly thought it was last year. And you know, now we begin the work of next year. That’s that’s our one and only focus. But I absolutely went into the playoffs believing we could win a championship, of course. And I and the team was good enough to win a championship, but they’ve got to play up to their potential. and you know the Blue Jays did and we didn’t and it’s it’s uh across the board and that’s why the the end score was what it was. Even with the $300 million payroll, you said the final figure was 319. You were still outspent by the Dodgers and the Mets. Is your view of whether a salary cap should be proposed changed over time and would you still favor a uh cap proposal if it was proposed? Look, I don’t feel like I’m in a position right now research-wise, knowledgewise to to answer that question. Um, we’ll always be among the highest payroll-wise. We always have been, always will be. Uh, look, there are group of groups of fans out there in different areas, including my hometown here in Tampa that come to, and I’ve addressed this before, come to spring training games thinking their team has little chance of making the playoffs or at least little chance of making it deep into the playoffs. And those fans would argue that that’s not good for baseball as a whole. And you know, it’s a valid argument whether it’s true or not. It’s a valid argument. So, but I mean, yeah, that’s about all I got for you on that. Okay. Thank you. At this point in time, hey, Hal, uh, when you talk to players and coaches around this team and about things that you need to do better, uh, what what are some of the things that they say to you and do you agree with it? Um, just, you know, ways this team can improve, uh, for 26. Yeah, look, uh, mental mistakes. Um, base running for sure, which is why we made a change there. Uh, has has been a thorn in our side most of the season last year or this year. Um, so yes, I I whatever whatever concerns that they have, you know, it’s not just them. Obviously, Cash is involved too, intimately involved. You know, we’re going to make a change and we’re going to do better at it. But if you’re asking specific about this year, the base running mistakes was was not good. not good. So, we’ve we’ve made a change there coaching wise and uh you know, we’re going to expect better results this year, coming year. At the start of the year, you were quoted as saying it’s difficult for most owners to do what the Dodgers are doing, spending um and you wondered if it would pay off for them. I’m I’m curious. Does the fact that they’ve now won back-to-back titles change your thinking at all and how you approach this off seasonason or future offseasons when it comes to spending like them? Yeah, look, I if if there’s a correlation between spending the most money and winning a championship, I still think it’s a weak correlation. You know, sample size of data, not very big, but they they earned every, you know, every every bit of it. I mean, they they struggle with injuries throughout the season, which I did talk about in that same quote. Um, but they got healthy at the right time. The rotation got healthy. And when that rotation’s healthy, they’re tough to beat. Uh, and they quite frankly played up to their potential. I mean, they they they really played up to their potential, especially those last two games. And, um, that has to happen. Your players have to play up to their potential when you’re playing a team as good as the Blue Jays and you’re playing under that kind of pressure in the World Series. So, you know, hats off to them. It’s not easy to do twice and they did it in dramatic fashion this time. And um but again, we’ll see what they do next year and we’ll see how it how it pans out. You know, there was nothing low about my payroll and the Mets payroll and and you know, look where we ended up. See, I’m not hearing the edge that you were looking to hear and the frustration or I don’t want to say he doesn’t care because I do believe how cares 100%. But not to the level that he’s not us. He’s never going to sound like you or me. I mean, come on. He’s just not wired like many of the New York Yankee fans are in terms of just that visceral personality or his father. I do hate to keep going down that road. He’s not George, but that’s who he’s going to be compared to because that was his father. And when George owned the team, he’d come on and he’d be ticked off and heads would be rolling and he say, “This is not good enough.” Yeah. The I don’t want to hear about the payroll. I don’t want to hear about the Dodgers. I don’t care. We need to build a better team so we’re the world champion. That That’s what the Yankees used to be. And now how’s like, well, I mean, the Dodgers, you know, they had a great World Series, but they lived, they played up to their potential and they got healthy at the right time. I mean, you know, it’s funny because, and we’ve talked about it a few times here today, the the Alex versus A-Rod documentary really so much at least he thinks that medical professionals think that a lot of Alex’s issues stem back to his dad abandoning him when when he left at the age of 10, right, up in Washington Heights and then eventually when they went to the DR and then things really disintegrated when they went to Miami and then then he left, right? So, and Alex has owned that and, you know, made a lot of mistakes. Many probably derived from that hole and that that abandonment that, you know, if you look at psychology, that definitely connects as we we know how’s never going to be his dad. But I think in a lot of ways, maybe he’s trying purposely not to be his dad because as we sit here and glor glorify George, right? You know, the championships, whatever it takes, George the military, you know, he loves this and that and we love all that about George, but there was a lot about George. if you’re old enough that you couldn’t stand and I’m raising my hand right there with you. Incredibly frustrated with George. Now, imagine being George’s son, you know, growing up in that kind of environment. So, maybe it’s a purposeful um separation from his dad’s personality. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, maybe Either way, to me, it just the results aren’t good enough. I get that winning 94 games is great. I would like to see a little more frustration and irrational behavior. I I get that you also want to see rationale from front offices at the Yankees are at a point where we need to see a little irrationalness with I like the way you frame that. That’s Yeah. And you know what? Let me just push the the very basic psychological evaluations aside since that’s certainly not my lane here. It’s just my opinion. It could be on to something maybe not. Whatever. One thing that he did say about the base running and this is a problem, right? So, you know, we changed some coaches that’s going to be addressed. Okay. Does anybody think that a new coach is going to get Jazz Chisum locked in on the bases? The answer is no. Does anybody think that a new coach is going to get Austin Wells, who just wandered off of second base, not knowing how many outs there were, to be a more locked in base runner? For me, the answer is no. And these are fundamental issues that have permeated the organization forever. You could what’s uh what Richardson the older Mets you could put Richardson at first base and the Mets and the Yankees probably still have some issues running of the bags because a lot of their players and now some players they brought in have been better. Bellinger’s better obviously even Goldmith was older and slower smart base runner. I get it. They did make up some ground in that department and they caught the baseball better, but I’ve always gone back to the the guts. If you lift up the hood and you get to the engine of the Yankees, we focus on payroll and free agency. I’ve always thought it’s deeper than that. BT and Sal the fan. Take a quick break. Come back more with Hal Stein Burner. We’ll get in your calls before we say goodbye as well. Come on, Hal. Just let her rip once. Come on. All right. This Thanksgiving, FanDuel’s introducing a brand new way to build a parlay together. It’s called pass the leg. Here’s how it would go. Start a group build. Uh, add your pick, then pass it on to a buddy so they can add theirs as well. Then you combine it all. Everybody’s done. You lock in the group parlay with your own funds and boom, you got a chance to win. Football’s obviously better when it’s played and bet together. Little juice on the games is always fun. 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Example, zero down payment, 60 months financing at 1667 per month per,000 financed. Actual down payment may vary. Subject to INMAC credit approval. Not all buyers qualify. Dealer contribution may affect actual price set by dealer. Contact dealer for details. Ends 12125. Get the scuttlebutt on your favorite team. The fan on the Odyssey iHeart and TuneIn apps. You like this one? I love this one. BT and South back up. Wow. I mean, you know, did you know AC/DC? Yeah, exactly. AC/DC Metallica. Uh BT and Sal back on the fan. Let’s listen to more from Hal Star. We got a bunch more still here. Okay, we got a bunch more from Hal. Let’s see if he says anything that gets us excited about the Yankees coming up. Here’s more. Now, you mentioned consistently having one of the the highest payrolls. Do you feel like that money has been spent well enough in recent years? Well, the the intent was certainly there and the the research and the homework was certainly there. I can’t complain about that. Um, you know, you’re always looking hindsight, right? Hindsight’s 2020. Certainly, some things haven’t worked out, but it’s not for uh you know, not for not doing the research and the homework and and everything else. Again, the team on paper on the back of the baseball cards is one thing and then how they perform, particularly in the postseason, um, which is a bit of a crapshoot, um, is two different things. And, you know, you got to wait to find out the second, but make sure on the first that you know, you’re getting guys that should make sense and that should perform in this market and should fill these areas of needs, whatever the need is. How, thanks for taking the time. Going back to the the salary cap uh thing, you had mentioned in the past that you’d consider supporting a cap depending on what the cap is and it being contingent on there’s a there being a floor. Has your thinking changed on that? Well, we’re going to talk about hypotheticals. You know how much I love those. But yes, I I really wouldn’t have anything to add. I would consider Yeah, I would consider supporting a cap only if it’s accompanied by a floor. And of course, it depends what what the number is. I mean, I wish I had more for you, man, but I mean, that’s that’s where I’m at right now. But that that is that is something on the record. Yes. That I’ve said. But but I mean so when when when you talk about a floor, do you have do you have a an idea in mind? Like do you what’s a number that sound good to you in terms of a floor? Some something that would be reasonable enough that it would improve competitive balance significantly in this sport which many fans already argue is is not good enough. I think we’ve made strides the last 10 years in some of the things we’ve done but as an industry probably not near where we need to be. At least that’s what the majority of the fans believe. And there’s a number of ways to attack that problem, including some we’ve done in the past. Al, you mentioned it was a six to seven week stretch this summer where the team just didn’t play good baseball. Um, that’s happened in the past. Uh, last year you guys were able to recover and make the World Series. Obviously, this year it cost you the division home field um a buy. Uh, what needs to change so you can avoid those those summertime those ruts that you guys seem to have pretty much every season last year? Yeah, look, again, it wasn’t for lack of confidence. It wasn’t for a lack of working hard. Uh, it’s a difficult question to ask. Um, there’s nothing coaching wise that I feel we could have done differently. But, you know, as well as I do, you’ve been around probably longer than me probably. It’s it’s, you know, players start to push when they struggle and then you start chasing bad pitches and there just a myriad of things that happen um when a team really struggles like that. I don’t expect to see that every year. We’re too good for that. But you’re right, it was it it was bad last year and it did cost us a division. We could have won one more game and won the division, right? One of the Miami games, for instance. Uh it was frustrating. Definitely frustrating. But again, it’s not for lack of effort, trying, and you know, optimism because there’s all that in their clubhouse. Getting back to Chris’s question about the Dodgers, are you worried that they’re pulling away from the pack? I mean, they’ve won three championships now in six years. Uh they’re obviously very wealthy. They have a connection to the Japanese market. Is it a concern to you as a rival and as one of the 29 other owners? Well, I’ll just speak for Hal Sterner. Of course, it’s a concern. Um, they do have tremendous resources and but they’ve they’ve gotten the job done. That’s that’s the big thing. I mean, they they played to their potential when they needed to overcome a lot of injuries this year. Um, but again, got healthy at the at the right time. I don’t know what next year is going to bring, but but it’s of course it’s always a concern anytime I feel that, you know, one team is um pulling away from the other 29 selfishly pulling away from me. I’m not quite sure I’m convinced of that yet because so much happens during the course of a baseball season, but all we can do is is, you know, do the best we can, put the best team together, the best roster together that we can, and again, not have not have six week periods like we had last year. That just that does us no good. Can I tell you that’s the first thing that he said that truly bothers me, the start of that. All right. And we probably played eight or nine cuts from hell and you know, we’re pretty much getting what we expected here. But see, there were two things here. First, he was asked about the, you know, maybe misspending some funding and allocating the wrong money to the wrong player or too much money to the wrong player. And then he was also asked about these summer swoons, right? And which by the way happen every single year. And his his answer for that to me was not really acceptable because he said, “Well, with some of the misspent funds, it’s not because we didn’t do our homework or do our research.” That that’s the bare minimum starting point. What? Not because of lack of effort or trying. I I almost said what you almost said earlier, the S word. Like no bleed, man. And then we talk about these summer swoons. He said it wasn’t for a lack of of of working hard. That’s job requirement number one for a pro alete to work hard and and I think that to and and that that’s my biggest disconnect with hal and his approach as an owner now to be you know volatile and combustible like is that never going to happen but you know you could be a step more than where you are now where it shouldn’t always be explained away by hey they did we did our due diligence we did our homework we worked hard we played hard we tried it just didn’t work out why What? Right. Why didn’t it work out? I want him to be a little less rational. Why didn’t it work out? He he him and the front office and the DOM, the Yankee department of nerds, they’re all saying the same thing. Well, look at it on paper. Like, we have a good team. We won a bunch of games. Yeah. Okay. Well, the base running needs to get better. Although, like Bowen disputed that. So, how at least acknowledging that, but hey, you know, we we love our pitching. You know, we got to help the bullpin a little bit. We’re pretty good on the infield. we now calls for a little sprinkle of irrational behavior. And it doesn’t mean you got to go like a drunken sailor over the top, but clearly I don’t understand how they could just sit there and watch the same thing over and over and over again and just saying like, “Yeah, I mean, you know, we can’t have the swoon next year. We we’ll do something about it.” To your point, BT, well, why why are we relying on so many young guys? Why haven’t the young guys developed to the level that we expect them to develop? Why haven’t you gone over the top to compensate for the lack of development with the younger players to bring in bigname players the way that you used to when you were successful back when your father was running things back in 2009? There’s a lot of different things the Yankees could do and instead they just continue to have the blinders on and say they’re smarter than everybody else and the results continue to be the same every year. Now I want to react to what they do and not necessarily what they say. I think that’s always the smart way to do it. But they’ve kind of said the same thing for a while and they’ve kind of kind of done the same thing for a while. Clearly acknowledging that they’ve gone above and beyond to give Yankee fans a winner, just not above and above and beyond where they usually have gone. You know, listen guys, here’s the reality of it. We are getting perilously close to this gen like my son’s generation and then multiple future generations pulling up baseballreerence.com putting in Aaron Judge’s name and seeing bold and black and italicized everywhere and saying, “Wow, they never won with this guy.” Right? If there was ever a time to just try it for old time sake, just go all the way in for a couple of seasons, now is the time to do that. Let’s listen to more from Hal here before we break. The other question is just your thoughts on on the job that Aaron Boon is doing. If you had to give him a grade, what would it be? I I God, please don’t make me repeat myself, Bob. I’ve been asked this question so many times. He’s a good manager at many of the things he has to do. He’s not perfect. I’m not perfect. You’re not perfect. But he is great at dealing with the players, with his staff, um with Cash’s people, and with Cash, with you guys. um you know and and he makes overall good decisions on on the field. So you know you you can you can’t pin this on Aaron Boon that’s for sure. Th this Toronto series was on the players. It’s on the players shoulders period. They didn’t hit. We had a couple bad starts and obviously against the Blue Jays as I’ve already said you you can’t do any of that when they’re playing as good as they were playing entering the playoffs. wanted to ask you, Hal, uh you said you can’t name a figure for your uh projected payroll, uh but a range. You were at 319 you said last year. Uh can you give us a range? Is that the range? I I’ve seen it suggested you want to go down this year. Is that is that true? And and also uh I I’ve seen it uh suggested that your revenues were over 700. So I’m assuming you make a profit. Is that fair as well? No, it’s not fair actually. So you take you take a loss. Don’t want to get into it, but that’s not a fair statement or an accurate statement. You need to, you know, everybody wants to talk about revenues. They need to talk about our expenses, including including the $und00 million expense to the city of New York that we have to pay every February 1st, including the co year. So it all starts to add up in a hurry. Nobody spends more money, I don’t believe, on player development, scouting, performance science. So these these all start to add up, John. And you know, if you want to if you want to go look at the revenues, you got to somehow try to figure out the expense side as well. You might be surprised. But uh that aside, uh I I didn’t say every year we do a range. But some years going into the winter meetings, uh we do talk about a range, but that range is rarely uh rarely come true as I found for all the reasons I already talked about. He’s going to bring me anything and everything. And you know, he and his people have to work harder because that’s the way I want it. But that’s the way I want it. So, we will see. We will see what happens um and what presents itself trade-wise and fringing wise. I mean, I kind of like that uh when he says, you know, they have to work harder and that’s the way I want it because that’s the way I want it. So, suck it up, basically. Um but how about the fact that he alluded to the Yankees, you’re telling me now they’re losing money or not making as much money as we thought. Well, this is what I read earlier that Hulk transcribed. Okay, so yeah, when you hear it, I’m I’m happy and I figured we would play it, but the thumbnail sketches and I I I mean, it’s as simple a research as you could possibly do. The Yankees, their their most recent valuation is $8 billion. Nobody has a higher valuation. Uh and I could throw in the Dodgers, but I I’ll look at the Mets. Yanks are 8 million 8 billion. Mets are 3.1 billion. The Yankees revenue generation was 705 million a year ago and the Mets was right below 450. Massive advantage Yankees. Now, obviously, you know, I I don’t know the the inner workings of the well, the city deal and the leases and the other ly. No, I don’t I don’t I don’t think that he’s lying. I think that he’s understating the amount of profit that they make. I I definitely don’t think he’s lying. I mean, if you listen to that again, the first thing you like, well, no, I wouldn’t don’t assume that. Come on, Al. I mean, the safest assumption in the world is that the Yankees are making a profit, right? But then he then the money that they spend, which we could be looking at it just as the major league payroll, but to his point, you know, the Yankees are more involved with scouting and minor league system and all this. Where’s the data that supports that? I’m not saying that they’re not very involved. I know that they spend more than the Orioles and I know that the Mets had that was one of the big problems with the Mets for years and they they’ve changed that a little bit, right? But I don’t think to the level of the Yankees like No, no. I I agree. I think the Yankees operate very much first rate in that regard. But and I’m just throwing out a number like how much can you spend on that? $50 million. There’s no way you got styrene Field. The Rays just gave you $10 million Major League Baseball to let them use the stadium. So whatever operating cost in the minor leagues was largely offset by the $10 million check you got from baseball. But but either way to me the fan doesn’t want to hear about that. No that well that that’s that’s the point. Like Steve Cohen’s not making money. Doesn’t matter. He’s trying to win. I think he’s making money. I believe that the Mets were losing money. Now again I don’t know is the way I don’t want to say fudge the numbers illegally on that but but there’s yeah present things as a listen the Mets again the Mets generated $446 million last year. their payroll was what 360 370 big league payroll but you’re not talking about everything understood un understood. So maybe it was a a push maybe they maybe they did lose a few whatever. Uh but the Yankees are as profitable as the Cowboys as as anybody right if the Yankees can’t make money then their whole shot Minnesota BTS the f will finish up when we come back and pirates will just take skins today. All right. Operating engineers Local 825 are the men and women who make our region move. 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Today’s call of the day brought to you by Edison Heating and Cooling. They are New Jerseys heating experts and we have dual callers of the day, David Sterns, who we heard from earlier, and Hal Steiner. Let’s continue listening to Hal. Is it likely you won’t go down? You’ll probably stay the same or go up then. I I think, you know, would it be ideal if I went down? Of course. But does does that mean that’s going to happen? Of course not. Again, we want to field a team we know can win a championship or we believe could win a championship. We don’t know anything um in that regards as far as the future, but yeah. So, we’re we’re it just hasn’t changed, John, which is why, you know, payrolls have gone up probably every year. Doesn’t mean they won’t go slightly down one year and then up the year after that. I mean, it all depends on what’s out there and what the possibilities are and how much I feel, you know, we’re able or we need to pull the trigger on those possibilities. How? I understand the Yankees will take good players wherever they can find them, right? But do you think it’s important to the organization to have Japanese representation on its roster? And is that something you plan on pursuing this off season? Well, I I’m not going to talk about who’s available or not available in offseason. You know, do I feel it would be good to have Japanese reference? Of course, you know, we have in the past. Uh we were very much in on Yamamoto, as you know. Uh it did not work out. You know, there’s some inherent advantages to uh a Japanese player being on the West Coast versus the Northeast. Um but wasn’t for a lack of trying. I can assure you of that. So, but rep, you know, representation of Japanese players, yes, that that’s an important thing. And again, that’s why we tried so hard to get Yamoto and others. Is that at all business motivated? But again, you want great players on the field, but there’s certain perks that come with that off the field as well. I I think I think, you know, the Japanese population in this country would would love to see a Japanese player play for the New York Yankees. What what that translates into from my perspective, I don’t know. Uh nor could I quantify it, but uh certainly it’s a big, you know, baseball, as you know, better than me is is king of Japan. And and a lot of Japanese fans here in the US would love to see that. And you know, we we again, we’ve tried and we’ll continue to try. Hey Hal, I just want to make sure I get this right. I’m a I cover baseball, not finances. Um, but you had you had mentioned that it wasn’t necessarily accurate uh to say that you guys made a revenue this year. Just trying to get this right. Did you guys say you guys didn’t make money this season? Like I’m not going to get I’m not going to get into our finances. I simply said what he implied was was not correct. H, a couple weeks ago, um, Aaron Boon made a comment that, um, he believed that the Yankees were the least analytical team when it came to in-game decisions in the AL East, just considering how much money you guys pour into that side of the operation. Would that be okay with you if that were true? Well, I didn’t I don’t I don’t I don’t know what the question was, nor did nor did I hear the answer. But I will tell you, we we do put a lot of money into analytics and Aaron Boon is great at absorbing everything that comes his way. I assume what he’s talking about is there are some teams in baseball, our division or not, where every decision that’s made in the dugout during the course of a day, a game is is based on analytics more than anything else. And that’s not necessarily the case with us. Aaron’s got leeway to make the decision however he wants to make it. Um, but he’s got all the information. That’s the important thing. That’s what we spend the money on to to get him that information along with the pro scouting information talking about the other side. He gets it all and what he does in the dugout is what he does in the dugout. And there are seem some teams that are different than that. All right, there you have it. So, that was everything from Hal in summation. I don’t feel like much is going to change here. Now, it doesn’t mean that they’re not going to make, you know, a big move or two, but I mean, he’s just not the the changes that need to be made. I don’t think How’s got the either stomach for it or believes that those type of changes need to be made. Therefore, Cashman and the Yankee DO, Department of Nerds, can just do the same thing and hope that the results are different. Even how reference it multiple times, BT, well, the Blue Jays when they play like that, you know what? Tough to beat. Like it’s almost like well they won’t get that lucky again. Dodgers same thing. Well the Dodgers reach their that won’t happen again. It’s all these other teams just maxed out and the Yankees were unfortunate that that was the case as opposed to the Yankees being the aggressor here. I can’t feel totally encouraged from what I heard from Hal today. I mean listen if if they won the World Series 3 years ago and we’ve had a little randomness since uh it’s a little easier to digest. I I think that that’s just a very very very easy way. And now maybe he doesn’t even really truly feel that. Maybe just by saying that it allows him to gloss over it and behind closed doors, you know, he’s a little more belligerent or hold guys more accountable uh and and gets after it a little bit more. I I don’t know. I just think that, you know, to think that like and I certainly I’ve really never thought this would be pleasantly stunned, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. We’re not going to wake up and Tucker’s going to sign 10 years, four bills with the Yankees. Not happening. You know, I I don’t see that happening at all. And by the way, if he if that did happen, he’s loved him a year ago. What’s the hold up? Well, then probably the money. That’s probably the answer. And then, you know, they also have to get Bellinger. So, I think it’s either or. Uh, if they did do that, well, then everything that Hal just said today that we’re kind of questioning goes out the window. Like, if they sign Tucker, it doesn’t matter how we just interpreted that press conference. You signed Tucker, you signed Tucker. It’s a pretty massive swing. Well, that’s what I’m saying. I think that’s what they need to do. I just don’t think that they will. But that alone also doesn’t make them World Series contenders. They still have to figure out the other pieces. Okay, let’s say you sign Tucker. In all likelihood, that’s going to mean the end of Bellinger unless you bring him back to play first base, which then could help some things out. But I’m assuming that it’s one or the other. And if it’s Tucker, okay, now you have a legitimate player. He’s a good player. You put him in left field. He could do a lot of the little things. But now you’re you’re you’re making up for the loss of Bellinger. So where did you exactly get better? You kind of got to add Bellinger. And then on top of it, something you’ve been saying for a while. Listen, the other thing, too, is, you know, the the Mets made a trade. Now, they still have more to do here. Obviously, it’s the first move that I think is going to result in a really good offseason. We’ll say, I say it till I’m blue in the face. That’s what I think is going to happen. You know, and it took Guts to get rid of NMO. How about we wake up in two days or tonight or in 5 days and we see that Stanton was traded? Bingo. I mean, could it maybe be time to do something a little radical here? You know, if if the Mets, now they didn’t say this cuz they want to be respectful to Nemo as they should. stuff that was a little bit off with the Mets. Now, I don’t think there’s any anything off withstanding in terms of how he’s perceived, but in terms of by by his teammates, he’s revered, but in terms of just logistically, you know, really compromising the Yankees lineup that they could trot out on a day in and dayout basis, right? Stanton, let’s start with something like that, right? The Yankees have needed to make a move like that. See, everybody always thinks, well, a trade should make you better immediately. The NMO trade made the Mets better at second base, but also created a vacancy in the outfield that the next move should be able to make them better. So, trading Stanton just in isolation doesn’t well, how you going to get better with trading stand? Because it’s now opening up some wiggle room here to where you can move Ben Rice to DH and maybe go get a better first baseman or whatever outfielder or third baseman. you can reconstruct the roster differently than what you’ve been doing where it clearly doesn’t work relying on a guy even though Stanton at his peak is as good a hitter as there is in the game at his peak he’s never at his peak all year long he’s always hurt the field he can’t run the B like there’s a million things wrong with having him on your ball club so addition by subtraction in that particular case and if you want to get Judge off his feet and Judge is not 27 and Stanton’s healthy you know when he is well guess what you can’t do it you’re going to have to rush judge run judge out to the outfield. See, I don’t know. This would fascinate me. I would love to absolutely know the 100% truth. So, the Mets make this move. Is there I don’t want to say a wink and a nod. That’s a little bit pushing it past what I think could have happened. But when you trade NMO, you obviously know you have to upgrade left field. That that’s a given. So, like, you know, and Sterns is connected with with whomever he’s connected with. Hey, would you be open to trading as Quan? Hey, does Tucker like New York? Hey, is Bellinger, you know, maybe okay with leaving the Yankees? You’d have to think that some intel, right, on some to what level? I don’t know. Or or Buckton in Minnesota. It could it doesn’t have to just be a left field. It could be a center fielder and then they use one of the younger guys in left. But yeah, I mean, they’re anticipating they’re going to be able to acquire an outfielder. Of course, I think it’s more than anticipation though. Like that’s kind of like maybe an ounce of intel and then, you know, you’ve got to obviously read the tea leaves. That to me would be like that’s what the great teams do. You do something and because you kind of know something else is coming. Well, we started with the Giants. Let’s close with the Giants. The Giants drive of the game. Brought to you by the New Jersey Division of Highway Traffic Safety, reminding you to make the right choice. Don’t drive impaired. For me, BT, I’m going to go with the the touchdown reception for Jameus Winston. That was the last uh point that the Giants scored unfortunately, but at the time, you know, 5minute drive gives them a 10-point lead in the fourth quarter and it was a crazy play call. How do you say his name? Of stepping up at the pocket. Yeah. Throwing a touchdown pass to Jamus and the who had the game on TV. They didn’t even realize that it was Winston who received it at first cuz it didn’t look like he gave a little little spin, a little shot. He broke a tackle getting in. That was a a fun drive for the Giants. Unfortunately, it didn’t end the way that uh we wanted it to. I could co-sign that. You know, he I did not think he was going to get in those final five yards. And by the way, film session, I think that was a linebacker who got hung up back there. Yeah. Uh he’s going to get roasted. It’s like he got beat up by like Vic or even Field as an athlete or you know, Lamar Jackson slice job. Chavis Winston who was pretty non athletic. Yeah, but he’s not just a regular quarterback with those moves breaking a tackle and not some fragile guy getting in. Anyway, it was a great play. That was the Giants drive of the game. All right, that does it for us. Thanks to Dove, thanks to Hoff as always. Thanks everybody who listened and called. We appreciate each and every one of you. Back again tomorrow at 10 a.m. Evan and TK are coming up next. The home of the NFL on Westwood 1 is WFA. The Panthers are heading to San Francisco to take on the 49ers. 8:15 tonight on AM660. Right down the middle and good. Monday Night Football is on the van 1019 FM and always streaming on the Odyssey app. This Thanksgiving, FanDuel is introducing a brand new way to build a parlay together. And it’s called Pass the Leg. And here’s how it works. Start a group build and add your pick. Then pass it on to your friends so they can add theirs. When everyone’s done, you each lock in a group parlay with your own funds. Because football is better when it’s played and bet together. And to make it even better, everyone gets a 50% profit boost to use on their build. Maybe you’ll start your parlay off with the Jir Gibbs anytime touchdown and then pass it on to one of your friends. So, grab your crew, start your build, and get in on all the action this Thanksgiving
BT & Sal are LIVE on WFAN after another rough weekend for New York football. Both the Giants and Jets come away with losses, and the Giants make a major move by firing their defensive coordinator.
The guys break down what went wrong for both teams, what the Giants’ staff shake–up means moving forward, and where New York football goes from here. They take your calls and react to all the latest news around the league.
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7 comments
Basically what Mitch was saying is the problem is ownership
I love the Nimmo Simmien trade
I've been back and forth on the trade. On a personal level I just love the ballplayer and the person Nimmo is. A class act through and through. Seeing him bust his behind to become the player he his speaks volumes to his work ethic. On a the baseball side, yes I can see his defense regressing and his injuries played a huge part in that. Semien gives us a gold Glover in the middle of the field and you hope he finds a bit of that stroke from a few years ago. You have to get alonso because you can't lose his 35 to 40 hrs along with what nimmo gave you. Mcneil I was thinking trade him but his ability to play multiple positions leans me on the side of keeping him. Always loved belli and would love to see him get signed. One way or another you have to fill in that missing spot in the OF. Pitching will come down the road. I can see the long jam of acuna/baty/vientos/Mauricio being part of a move or 2 to bring in some pitching
Sal is a idiot want 5 minutes to debate him everything giants. Stick with the Mets
Agree with the callers who think this team is making progress — the difference between this year and last year is night and day. W-L record is a much worse predictive measure on future performance than point differential, ask any gambler. And there was the one caller going on about “when was the last time the Giants has a linebacker?” Brian Burns? Hello?
Love watching BT & Sal … Sal cracks me up 😂😂
Shaun Morash show featuring Tiki and Loogie and their sidekick, Roberts