Shedeur Sanders BALLS OUT but the Browns lose to TEN after questionable choices from Kevin Stefanski
[Music] Heat. Hey, heat. Hey, heat. Where are you? [Music] Heat. [Music] [Music] Heat. [Music] [Music] Wow. [Music] Heat. [Music] Heat. Hey. Hey. Hey. [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] I know. [Music] Wow. [Music] All right. [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Hey. Hey. Hey. [Music] [Music] Jay Crawford, Adam the Bull, Garrett Bush, Dustin Fox, Jason Lloyd, Tyus Powell, plusa da da da, you’re loving him, Mikey McNuggets, and so many big names, it would take me hours to say all of their names. The ultimate Cleveland sports show starts now. Booyah. Hey. Oh, happy Monday. You know what? We were entertained yesterday. Yeah, I’ll tell you that. It wasn’t the result some fans wanted, but we got a hell of a football game. It’s actually the perfect result if you think about it because Shador Sanders played great. You feel good about, oh, maybe we do have a guy. Obviously, he’s got a lot more to prove, but you didn’t screw up your draft. You feel like he’s got a chance and they still lost, which gives him a better chance to get the first overall pick. And in a perfect world, if you don’t have have to take a quarterback, who knows what you’re going going to do with that first overall pick. How about a wide receiver with that? Or how about you trade down a couple spots and get three first round picks and still take a wide receiver and offensive lineman? That’s their MO. A lot of possibilities. Long way to go for that, but that a lot of chatter, a lot of a lot of stuff to get into yesterday as a fan. I did. Did you enjoy? Yeah. Were you not entertained? It was fun. We had We had a great time. Uh the Everybody bailed. It was about half full. Like it on TV and it was about quarter full by the end. Everybody bailed in the fourth. Was it empty by the end? Oh yeah. Yeah. Down 14 after. I can’t remember if it was the pick or the block punt. What came second? Uh the block punt was after the pick. I think the block punt is what cleared everybody up. And um I got to tell I’m trying to think of a way to tell this without getting anybody in trouble, but I put on the group chat yesterday. It was so funny. Oh yeah. A Browns player came in the game who doesn’t normally get a lot of playing time. Yeah, that’s fair, right? I that’s a good word. Yeah. And as soon as this person came in, the people behind us started booing him voraciously and like saying horrible, awful things about his human body parts. And I turned around, I said, “Why?” Well, I turned around and said, “I take it you guys are like his friends or family.” And this girl goes, “No, he cheated on my sister. I hate him. I mean it.” And like suddenly the entire section at a home game started screaming at this Browns player about what a horrible human he was and how awful his body parts. It was it was so entertaining. It was the most entertaining part of the That’s wild. You didn’t put that part of the story in the chat. Now it makes it I don’t think you did why they were doing it. Oh yeah. Oh, I didn’t I missed that part. It was for about 15 minutes. It was the most entertaining part of the game. It was hysteric. We had a great time though. I took AJ. Good. I never get to go because I’m always covering this poison. Yeah. And to be able to uh take a day and just go hang out. Just to go as a fan and just let all the worries of covering the game go. Just be a dad and take a kid to the game. Well, how was it cold? It looked like it was bitter. It was cold, but it really wasn’t that bad. It wasn’t windy. It was not windy at all. And that makes And so I took him, if you remember, I took him to that Christmas Eve game against the Saints a couple years ago. And at one point yesterday, he goes, “Dad, that game broke me. I’ll never be cold again after that. Like this is I was there that day as well. That was That’s right. Coldest I’ve ever been in. You met Cory there, didn’t you? Cuz it was Christmas. Cory and I stood there in 0° weather. Yep. And it was a wind was blowing. There was nothing enjoyable about that day. That was the coldest I’ve ever been in. I give white people credit, man. I give y’all credit, man. Y’all y’all sail around Africa. Some of us take our shirts off at the games. Y’all y’all y’all got on boats in 1842 and just decided, let me go over see what’s over there. You guys got in spaceships and it’s like let me get in a rocket and go fast to the moon and you go to games when it’s cold outside. I don’t do any of those things. Uh Mike, what what do we got? I don’t get on boats. I don’t get on space. We got a jam-packed show. We got to get into everything. I want to make sure we get in all the things that have to be discussed today. So, let’s do a read and let’s dive right into the meat and bones of today’s show. Our first topic, our shador topic brought to you by a homebuilders association. Give big this year with a home for the holidays raffle. You get a chance to win a beautiful new custom home or a cash prize this holiday season and help make wishes come true for Makea-Wish kids with critical illnesses. Raffle proceeds benefit Makea-Wish OKI, which has granted over 22,000 wishes to children facing critical illnesses all across Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana since 1983. This year’s house is a customuilt ranch by Pro’s Homes with three bedrooms, two and a half baths, and a threecar garage. It also includes amazing features like a great room with vated ceilings, an unbelievable kitchen and a mudroom with open lockers and a unique pet shower station. One lucky winner will be announced on December 24th. So get your $100 tickets now. Just visit home forthehols.org to buy your tickets. That’s a home for the holidays.org. Terms and conditions apply. Guys, we saw the best quarterback play we have seen in a long time from a Browns quarterback. Shador throwing for 364 yards, four total touchdowns, just one interception in the loss to the Titans. G Bush, I want to start with you on this one. What impressed you the most about what Shador Sanders did yesterday against the Tennessee Titans? I think I’m Big Meech, Larry Hoover, whipping work. Hallelujah. One nation under God. Real getting money from the start. That’s how you come out. That’s what I’m talking about. That’s you already know my slogan. Zip them up. Let’s go. I got the I got the spirit of Coach Prime on right now. I seen me pulled up like Frank Lucas to the facility. He had the mink on. He came in a double Rsroyce. Got escorted in and he has 75 chains on. I said, I see you, Coach Prime. Let me put 96 chains on. You know why? Because you look good, you feel good, you play good. And I told you. But the thing that’s most impressive is not about what you do and wear off the field. about what you do on that football field. And we talked about it. Yeah. Shador Sanders was the first dude to win his first game as a rookie. And they said, “Oh, it’s legendary. It’s against the Raiders. It’s just legendary a little bit. You playing around.” But then guess what he did? He came out there yesterday and he showed you this is the difference between the first pick and the fifth pick. Now, we going to use the fifth pick against my bro. We used it all summer. I need y’all to put the context on the fifth pick in general. So, what I did is I went the JR. I went and asked AI. I said, “Ai, talk to your boy G. Bush. Has there ever been a quarterback drafted after the fourth round in his rookie year to ever throw for 300 yards and two touchdowns. She came back to me like Hal or or Skynet.” G Bush, we do not compute. Sidor Sanders is the only person ever in the world in universe to do that. So, I call that legendary. We can get to the rest of the stats. But the thing is, not only was he did he do that, but he showed you layer by layer, throw by throw, multiple big time throws, one in the corner to David and Jooku. Perfect ball placed perfectly. He threw another one in Harold Fannon Jr. perfectly placed in the corner of the end zone for another touchdown. He showed you that he could get back to his second, third step and throw the ball over the middle. By the way, beautiful throw down the sideline to Harold Fannon Jr. Oh, by the way, there was a Jerry Judy sighting. He got him involved. And not only did he do that, he led the Cleveland Browns in rushing, too. I mean, the guy got beat up. He got hit time after time. He got up. He continued to fight. He had a bad interception. And the most impressive thing about the Shador Sanders had a bad interception. He was trying to make a play. He put the ball up and it hurt. But guess what he did after that? He came back, locked back in, moved down the field, got the team in position. And if it wasn’t for a certain somebody we gonna talk about, we might have been going into overtime, but we not gonna get into that. Shador Sanders was legendary. No quarterback had did what he did. By the way, since the since the Super Bowl era, I know you know this one, Bull, cuz Joe Burrow’s on this list. There’s only been one rookie to ever throw for 350 yards and two plus touchdowns and another rushing touchdown since the Super Bowl era. One of them is Joe Barl and the other is Shador Sanders. I ask you, Cam Ward is a first round pick, first overall. I just saw him be outplayed by Shidor Sanders. Case closed. Did we win? Thanks to Kevin Sfensky. Get to We’ll get to Stfansky next. The dangers of what we’re doing here is the overreactions both ways. No, there will be people and I saw it killing Shidor Sanders and then there are people say Clint basically making arguments that he’s one of one. He’s done stuff no one’s ever done. He he lost the freaking game to a one loss team or one- win team at home. G was that his fault? It was the quarterback. You win and lose with the quarterback. And and here’s the thing, he played great yesterday, but what we can’t do is elevate him to this status that he is the king and the messiah and he is the one of one because it’s a false narrative and just creating false hope. It’s a one-win team that beat us at home. See, here’s the thing. You left out the lead. No, we the left I left out the lead is we talked about his game against the Rams for a whole entire six months. That’s all we had. That guess we we talked about a preseason game that didn’t matter and him running backwards. We heard articles, we heard shows, we did he routine. We talked about a game where he got sacked multiple times. Now, if you going to use that same energy, use the same energy all the way around. If we if we was going to talk six months about him getting sacked, I’m sure that we could talk a couple of hours about the performance that he put up. We should. We should. But here’s what I’m saying, G. I’m saying that his supporters, and I love them for their their steadfast consistency and their support. I love that. That’s what supporters do. But you have to be careful in sports of the crazy overreactions one way or another. Here’s what he did yesterday. Bald. He took major steps towards becoming a starting quarterback in the NFL. Major steps. He proved a lot of his doubters wrong by making plays that NFL quarterbacks have to make. They have to make those plays. He made them. Did he make some mistakes? Yes. He’s a rookie. He’s young. He’s supposed to. But to say that and and statistically, you’re right. You know what stats are. You peel that onion a million ways. You find things that Here’s another stat. Out of 48 quarterbacks, he’s 47th in completion percentage. So again, that would be an overreaction to him being a horrible quarterback. That’s not fitting of the quarterback he is. But it’s a stat. It doesn’t lie. You can’t argue with it. Nobody in Browns history did what he did. Gee, you’re absolutely right. In fact, you’re right to say that, you know, the 300 yards and all of that, you’re right. Those are stats that he achieved. I you cannot take them away from him. But my fear is I had a deep conversation yesterday via text with another one of his ardent supporters and he sees this becoming an issue as well. And here’s what it is. The supporters are being so over the top that they’re setting this kid up for failure. It’s not not Kevin Stfansky. When you hold him up as he’s doing stuff that’s never been done in the league, that’s what the statistics say. He better do it against the Bills. But here’s the thing. He better do it against the Steelers. He better do it against the Bengals. If this was Dylan Gabriel, you would be sitting up on this table talking about how great he was. They gave Dylan Gabriel Skynet. We would also be saying he did it against a one- win team at home. But by the way, no other other team that played the Titans who threw for 300 against the Titans besides none. Zero. You don’t have to look. I don’t even care. Stafford. No. Okay. I’m just saying. Here’s what I know. They’re a one win team. I get it. I get it. I give you and Shadur his flowers out. No. No. Hold on. No. No. See this? This is where we’re getting at. It’s not about the supporters, guys. See, we go kind of is. No, no, it’s not. The push back that we get is people versus the supporters. Judge the man’s game. I don’t care about that. I’m talking about the game. Forget who support who. And I am when we critique the game, but everybody gets in their feelings because his supporters are supporters at the end of the day. No, at the end of the day, we are still to sit here and talk about what Shador Sanders did, right? And what I’m telling you is I don’t care what his supporters say. I’m talking about the game that he put on when we were told week after week after week he wasn’t ready. This is three, by the way. This is third game starting. Third game. No, it’s just just a second. It’s his second game. Jason, what do you got here? Uh, third game starting. It was his third. Third, was it his third? Yeah. Raiders. Raiders. Oh, yeah. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Titans. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I thought he was very good in the first half. I thought it was shaky third quarter, shaky start of the fourth quarter. And what he did in the second half of the fourth quarter solidified, he has to have the rest of the season. 100%. And if he plays like he did yesterday, the next three games. The the thing that I think is most fascinating is over the last 48 hours how the conversation around here has swung wildly watching Fernando Mendoza Saturday night. Yeah. And everyone saying you got to go get him. You got to go get him. You got to go get him. And then what Shadore did over the last what seven, eight minutes of the fourth quarter because that’s really what we’re talking about. Yeah. Because even at about the halfway point of the fourth quarter, I told you they left. Everybody left. Well, I mean, if you’re watching the game, you’re looking at it going, “Wow.” I mean, he did play good first half, but that third quarter and into the fourth quarter was miserable football. And and at that point when everyone’s leaving, you know, my thought is it was kind of like Niners game. It’s okay. And then what he did the last on those last two drives is what has everyone like, okay, maybe there’s something here and and I I love that the next three games now are against pretty good teams. Yes. So, it’s Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo. So, let’s if he plays remotely as well in the next three as he did yesterday, it sets up a fascinating conversation for next season. I think he comes back in the driver’s seat for next season. Well, if my options are Shidor Sanders or Deshawn Watson, I will throw myself on the field to make sure that Shidor is protected. Yeah. I will just I will never have to see Deshawn take. Those might be the options. And to that point, Jay, like that’s why I’m excited about what lies ahead. Rig the election for Shidor. Yeah. I believe if your scenario is true that let’s say they don’t draft a quarterback and if he plays like he did yesterday for the last three games, you’re not drafting a quarterback. He doesn’t have to throw for 350. No, but what he has to do is is look like an NFL quarterback. He looked like more than an NFL quarterback in that fourth quarter. He looked like a quarterback who can rally a team. Now, you got to look at who he’s doing it against. You got to look at all of the things. It all plays into it. It all plays into it. That’s why I love that. I mean, Chicago is a good defense. I like Chicago’s defense a lot. Buffalo and Cincinnati’s defense. I mean, what they give up yesterday combined 70 over 70 points. They’re good teams, though. They’re good teams. They’re good offenses. Their defenses are not great. So, I think I think what it does is it’s a perfect scenario for Shador Sanders. He Yes. If you look at the teams, okay, they’re all pretty good teams. Even though Cincinnati is what they are right now, record-wise, they’re a good team. I think they proved that yesterday. It’s It’s a perfect scenario for him because it could it each game could end up being just like yesterday’s offensive shootouts where they score a lot of points. He can’t be judged for what the defense the defense yesterday was absolutely atrocious. Nasty work. The defense was was trying to get sacks and Tennessee said, “Yeah, we’re going to run the ball.” And we did not adjust. And I was really surprised and even disappointed that we did not adjust. We’ll get to that. But I agree with you. If it comes down to Shadur and Deshun Watson for next season, oh my god. Yeah, that’s easy. That’s not a That’s easy. So, I got a lot to say. I’ve stayed quiet here for 15 minutes. I got a lot to say. You could factor in all these things. I think most of what all of you have said is is fair. Um, factor in all these things. Obviously, you factor in that the Titans aren’t very good. Obviously, you factor in that the weather was bad. Here’s something else I want to factor in. I didn’t think Shador Andrews was going to do much in this game. I had the Browns scoring 16 points. I had three nothing. You had three nothing. You did. But I thought it’d be a little strong. I You know what else? I got to factor in the fact that Shador Sanders made the pass catchers on this roster, who have mostly been crap, look good yesterday. The Browns looked like they had legitimate pass catchers. Even Cedric Tilman goes up and makes a catch. The Browns looked like a competent NFL offense. Has Shador Sanders proven without a doubt that he’s the franchise quarterback? Of course not. He hasn’t played enough. No quarterback. Nobody. None. Joe Burrow. Nobody in three and a half games can prove without a doubt that you’re the franchise quarterback. Well, in week two this year, Minnesota thought JJ McCarthy was their guy. Too soon, right? Yeah. But what he did do yesterday was give hope to fans that have not had any hope since Baker Mayfield. Yes. Jacobe Brassette didn’t give you hope because he’s a journeyman. Joe Flacco didn’t give you hope because he’s old. Jameus Winston didn’t give you hope because you’ve seen him for a decade. Dylan Gabriel didn’t give you hope because he showed no franchise quarterback traits at all. On and on and on on the list goes to Baker Mayfield. In fact, I would argue he’s the f the only quarterback besides Baker that has given you hope in in 15 years maybe. That’s fair. Okay. With the exception of the brief run by Flacco in No, but he didn’t give you hope because he’s old. But he put us in but he put us in the playoffs. Excited about that. We knew he wasn’t the long-term answer. I’m saying is hope for the future long term. That’s what I’m saying. He did not. Okay. Now, obviously, I want to see more, but what I saw from Shador Sanders yesterday was very impressive. Yes, the third quarter, the pick was bad and early he first of all, he didn’t even have the ball that much in the third and early fourth quarter. I could go through every game of every good quarterback in the history of football with very few exceptions and I could find a stretch during that game where that quarterback didn’t play well. Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, whoever. Hell, look at Mahomes right now. Exactly. So, but the point is for the game, I don’t need to break it down. For the game, Shador Sanders was excellent. Yeah. Okay. Well, maybe I won’t give him an A+ because he threw the pick and the completion percentage wasn’t great, but some of the reason why the percentage completion percentage wasn’t good is because he was overall making very smart decisions went to throw away the ball instead of taking sacks. If you consider the fact I don’t care that the Titans stink, the Browns stink, too. If you consider the fact that his teammates stink for the most part on offense, that his teammates on defense, who were supposed to be great, were terrible yesterday, you know, we could say, yeah, they did lose, but if the if the defense played as well as they had the rest of the year, the Browns would have won this game going away. Now, it might have been obviously would have played out differently at the end because he didn’t need to come back, but come on. How many games have the Browns, even against bad teams, been down 14 points late in the game and you thought they had a chance? None. In my years of covering the Browns, this is my 16th season covering the Browns. There’s only Baker Mayfield, as much as I got down on him at the end, was the only quarterback that I was like, I think he could come back here. Last night, I thought they had a chance and they did. I didn’t. I thought when that punt was blocked, whenever everyone stuck, they were Well, that was that. after after that first touchdown throw. Yeah, I thought Yeah, that’s why in the real time chat, we’re going to get into this about the decision to go for one or two. Yeah. I I did not like the decision to go for two, not because it didn’t work. I I think in that situation, if you score a touchdown and you score again and you’re kicking an extra point, you’ve got all the momentum going to overtime. Let it ride. I I hear you. We We’ll get But after that first touchdown, I thought, yeah, our defense is going to stop him. We are going to get the ball back and we are going to score a touchdown. And there’s some things you can’t measure in stats. Stats can tell the truth. Stats can lie. Right. I think I I the only stat I I like G. Bush’s stats. Only one I I think is a little unfair is the other quarterbacks with 300 because a lot of those games were blowouts and so the teams weren’t throwing the ball. But I don’t say that to take away anything from Shadore, but that’s why some of the other quarterbacks didn’t throw for 300. But the rest of the stats are eyepopping and they matter and and they matter. And and it’s not easy. You could say, “Well, every quarterback has a good game once in a while.” Not really. Dylan Gabriel didn’t have a good game. Not like that. You could say every quarterback throws four touchdowns once in a while. Not really. There’s plenty of quarterbacks this year have thrown for that many. Not that many. He’s the only rookie quarterback that throw for over rookies. I know. You don’t get 300 anymore. And the Tit and the Titans defense, as bad as the Titans are, their defense is not historically bad. Their defense is not good. Their offense is historic. Their offense is a joke. And that’s why it was Jeffrey Simmons is a absolute dull. The Titans defense is just normal bad like any other team in every year. They’re like 26 or 25. But to answer your question, how many quarterbacks should So he threw for three. He ran for the fourth. Yeah. Right. So quarterbacks who have thrown four touchdowns. It’s only happened 23 times all season. So he’s tied. There Wait a minute. There have been four 23 times this year a quarterback has thrown for four touchdowns or more. Correct. That’s higher than I thought it would be to be honest. Well, but he’s not tied cuz he didn’t throw for four years. No, he threw for three for four. Well, I’m saying so he’d be tied with 24 and down. Sam Darnold’s thrown for three. Uh he did it. Yeah, we we don’t want to go through the whole list. I’m not I’m surprised it’s that high. It’s only been that many times. 23 times. The point is there’s a lot. It’s his third NFL start, guys. So, while yes, I’ll factor in that Tennessee isn’t good. It’s a minor factor because the Browns aren’t good. I think people always forget that when you’re ready to jump on a guy saying, “Well, he only did it against a bad team.” Well, he’s on a bad team. He’s on an offense that couldn’t score. He’s on an off Dylan Gabriel. I I don’t mean to, you know, kill him, but Dylan Gabriel never picked up his teammates. It’s fair though, fool. You’re not killing him. That’s a fair statement. Never. And we never saw a spark from Dylan Gabriel. No. And there’s something to be said that Shador Sanders, I’m not saying everybody loves him. There’s probably a couple guys on the team that think he’s a pain in the ass, right? That’s going to be the case. When you’re different, when you’re different, especially, you’re going to you’re going to you’re going to piss some people off. That’s fine. But there’s a lot of guys on that team, and I don’t know this for a fact. I’m just saying I bet you it’s true. There’s a lot of guys on that team that are motivated by Shadore Sanders, that are inspired by Shador Sanders, that like that he’s different, that like he’s not a typical NFL quarterback. He doesn’t talk like a typical NFL quarterback. He doesn’t act like a typical NFL quarterback. And that’s fine. Not everybody has to fit into the same hole. Who you described is Baker. There were guys on the team that like Baker and there were guys on the team that hated Baker. Yeah, Baker was different. Baker said different stuff. But when Baker is electric and things are working, they are really good. But the swings that you get with Baker are when they’re not, they are really bad. And those are the es and flows of quarterbacks. And I don’t know. I guess I guess I’d rather have a even keel, a guy that’s just steady Eddie, doesn’t, you know, go over the top with numbers, but also doesn’t drop absolute bombs during games. I We don’t know if that’s Shadore yet. We don’t. We We have We have, you know, not enough. Not enough. Here’s what we know. Dor Sanders in the last three weeks is a better quarterback than Baker Mayfield. That can’t be debated. That is absolutely unequivocally true. Yes. Statistically. Statistically. Now, and again, I think this is the last thing I’ll say on then we can go go to the next shadure topic or whatever or the next topic in general. But I I again I’ll I’ll state what I said at the beginning. the the the danger here is to building this kid up to being one of one your head against the wall. It’s no it doesn’t matter. I know that’s what’s being I I spent 10 minutes last night on my podcast lauding Shador Sanders and there was one sentence that I said where I said he hasn’t proven it enough. I meant to say he hasn’t proven enough yet that he’s definitely the franchise quarterback. What I actually said was he hasn’t proven anything yet. I didn’t even realize I had said it instead of not enough. And that got turned into I’m a racist, I’m a this, I’m a that. But I cannot worry about danger. There’s nothing you can do about it. So we just you got to just ignore, right? But you’re not helping the kid when you when you call it. I’m not holding it against him. I’m not holding it. Let fans be fans. Fans are lunatics. They’re fan. They’re fanatical. Good and bad. That doesn’t that’s irrelevant to me. That’s why I took Twitter. I’m not even But but Jay, I’m not really pointing this at fans. It’s coming from the media, too. We saw something happen over the weekend between media members. not going to influence the Browns. The Browns have the next what we got four games left. Four, right? They got they got four games left to figure out can we because this is the beauty of it to me is I I don’t see the harm in giving him next year. Now, if he goes out and lays a turd these next three games, obviously we’re going to have a different discussion. But if he continues to grow and progress at this, what’s the harm in giving him next year? Because this roster has still got a ton of holes. one draft was never going to solve all their problems. You can take next year’s draft. You can continue to fill holes and if it doesn’t work next year and by the end you get to the end of next year and you say he’s not it. Well, now again, you’ve got this alleged great quarterback class coming in 2027, you can figure out. So, I think there’s more upside than downside to giving him next year if he continues to progress like this. You don’t have to give him a 10-year contract right now. Like, just give him the next three games, the next four. And if he continues to progress, give it again. You’re telling me Deshun Watts is gonna be on this team next year? Give me Shador every single time for for those people who But he is gonna be on the team. For those people that don’t, and this is the I’m trying to get through to people and get sometimes that you can let the outside noise affect what you’re seeing right now. What you’re seeing right now is think about it like this. What if Deshun Watson would have had this type of game when when he was playing here? We because we was talking about the Ravens second half. Remember it was a joke for nine months. We we talked about the Ravens second half for nine months as that was the but that was the Ravens on the road and we won. But here’s what I’m saying. If Shadur if if Deshan Watson had that type of performance, we would be ecstatic if like we if it was Dylan Gabriel, we would be ecstatic. If it was Baker, my thing is we shouldn’t let the the the enthusiasm of fans and people who support them. You going to have supporters everywhere, bro. That’s just part of the world. That’s part of the fandom. As far as what makes the NFL great, I I salute people for supporting who they going to support come hell or high water. That’s the reason why the NFL is so captivating because people are vested and interested. But for us as the media members, we shouldn’t be glossing over. We should be excited about the fact that you may not have to get a quarterback and you may could get some other things over it at all. Yeah. Like I mean that’s a perfect scenario. The perfect scenario is Shador plays great and the Browns lose. and then next year. Well, imagine if you have a quarterback, a starting quarterback who’s on a fifth round pick contract. You know, when you see in the past when when uh Russ Wilson took the Seahawks to the Super Bowl, the big excitement was, “Wow, he’s on a rookie contract. We can build up this defense. We can put so many parts around him.” What happened when he was outside of that rookie deal and now had to be paid the 30 million a year? Well, they couldn’t afford the defense. The team went downhill. It is a luxury if you can win with a rookie quarterback or a quarterback on his first deal. Particularly when you’re talking about a guy who was drafted in the fifth round, that’s like a lottery ticket. So, it it it behooves the Browns. Like, they’ve got to mess because their cap’s a disaster already. This would give them some relief. You know, this would give them a lot of relief. Not that they were going to have to worry about a quart another quarterback effect even if they drafted a quarterback in the first round next year. It’s not going to affect the cap for the next couple years, but it would be a higher contract. They still should cut to Sean. He should not be. He should not be on this team. In fact, I want a real shador. In fact, if Shadore does prove to be the starter, he’s got to go clear the room. Y Jay, I think everybody agrees with that. That’s the right thing to do. I don’t see Are you I don’t see any tea leaves that that’s what they’re going for. I mean, they had a concerted PR effort over the weekend to make sure everyone knows that. I noticed that and that I totally disagree. It becomes a manageable conversation to have. Good teams would have cut him already. It becomes manageable. It’s like 27% of the cap that he would count against. Oh my god. The Broncos, when the Broncos did it, it was like 20% I think for that one year first year hit. I don’t want I don’t want it tomorrow. Leave it. Leave it till tomorrow. Go ahead, Mike. Real quick before we move on, let’s grade Shador because we do it every week. We graded him last week. We graded him in his first start. Uh Jay, we’ll start with you on with the bowl, but what I give him a solid B+. Um, and the and the reason it’s not an A, obviously you’re judged on wins and losses, 100%. And for me to give a quarterback an A in a losing effort, he has to be perfect. He can’t make mistakes. He can’t be the reason the team lost. He contributed to the loss with the bad pick. Um, if you take that pick out, I definitely give him an A minus, but I I give him a a very solid B+. And I also take into account who they who they did it against. um if if if he does this against the Bills, he gets an A+, but it wasn’t. It was it was a bad defense. And by and large, with the exception Jay, I thought you touched on it. Well, I thought the first half was a very good first half. I thought he played very well. He made some throws. In general, it just seemed like everybody got disinterested in the third quarter. I don’t know what the hell was said at halftime. I just thought they came out flat as a team. We had a number of threeandouts. You couldn’t get any rhythm going. I want to see this kid in a tempo offense. when they and I know most teams look good because of what the defense is doing, but I just liked it when they were in rhythm and they were going, getting up to the line, throwing, throwing, going, moving, keeping the defense on their heels. That little bit, the seven to 8 minute stretch in this fourth quarter where he had the two touchdowns to me changed the entire narrative on the young man. And I think if nothing else, he absolutely rubber stamps every start the rest of this year. And if he does what he did consistently against the last four teams this year, you don’t have to draft a quarterback, you’re you’re closer to knowing that you can start next year and see if he’s the guy for a full season. G Bush, what grade would you give? I mean, you have to come to me on this is easy money. Uh given the fact of what the offensive line was like yesterday, um you had four uh backup offensive linemen in the in the game. uh you lose your starting center, you couldn’t run the ball. Um you know, every time, you know, they gave the ball to Quinn Sean Junkkins, he was getting hit in the back field. Um it it was inclement weather. I wouldn’t say it was crazy. It went cold and the wind went crazy, but it was snowing outside. Um and given the fact that you didn’t have a running game and you did what you did and and it’s not even the numbers. What I what I saw more from him was was the the maturation in terms of how you handled the game and understanding what you need at different times. Sometimes he needed to run, sometimes he needed to get rid of the ball, sometimes he needed to throw a quick dump down to the to Jerome Ford to get some yards. So, for me, I’m gonna give him an A. I’m not going to give you no A+. Um, I’ll give him a A minus. Um, I I’ll knock a little bit off because we did take, you know, he did throw a pick or whatever and and they did take a L, but by no means way, shape, or form, they did not lose this game because of him. Cuz we going to get to your boy here in a second. Kevin. Kevin. But I give him a I give him a A minus. Jason, yeah, I give him an A minus. I said last week, um, you know, it’s time to take the guardrails off and let him play quarterback, and they did that yesterday, and I thought it was the right time to do it. You know, the Raiders is his first start. Obviously, you’re going to be very conservative in how you approach it. And then the NerS, it was very windy. Uh, they’re a decent team. I understood keeping them up, but we said last week, listen, it’s the one- win Titans. It’s now or never. Let this kid play quarterback and see what he can do. and they did that and uh he rewarded them for it. Uh I’m with G. I liked I actually like you could almost see it like I got to get rid of the ball. It things in in college where maybe he would have held it a little bit longer or he would have tried to do something. It’s like I got to get rid of it. Even the grounding I didn’t even hate the grounding like it was a penalty and it was but at least he’s learning get rid of the ball. You can tell his clock has sped up. And that’s why I’m not going to kill him for a completion percentage because I would rather him have a low completion percentage and take four balls that he’s throwing out of bounds. Yes. And and so I I actually like it sounds stupid. I actually think I’ve seen the most growth with him on that on get rid of it. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. I agree. Yeah. I don’t think it sounds stupid at all. And there’s times where he’s still dancing around too much and against better defenses, it’ll catch him. It’s going to get him. But you know what? He’s not running backwards as much. But it’s less than it was. You’re seeing the progression week after week after that’s all you were looking for. I thought he did a great job of getting out of bad situations yesterday. The throw to Fannon was terrific in the end zone. It was a terrific catch as well. That was a fabulous catch by Fannon. Uh so there was a there was a ton to like from him. Um yeah, there was a bad pick and again that’s sort of reverting to bad habits, but the longer he does this, the more he does this, the hope is that he’ll continue to break those uh because he’s made tremendous progress. You know, I like that the pick didn’t break him. A lot of times when rookie quarterbacks throw picks like that that can swing a game. That ain’t going to break him. It didn’t break him. And I loved his postgame news conference, too. First of all, um I know he lit up some colleagues of ours uh in the postgame news conference. I love the way he handles the media afterwards. He he was asked, “Was that your primary receiver?” Talking about the fan and throw. Well, yeah. Who else would have he been throwing to? I think the question I think it was Zack. I think he meant to ask was was just go through the entire play what he was Yeah. Was that your intended was your number one? Yeah. Uh but I like the way he handled stuff like that. Like they asked him about a play, you know, he said we ran that in practice. Did it work? Yeah. What did it work? That was No, it didn’t work. That’s why we ran it in the game. It was. But what I like about the kid is in the moment he is quick enough to to look at that kind of stuff. He doesn’t back down. And that’s I think of all the traits needed to be a great quarterback. All of the great quarterbacks have one thing in common. They do not back down. They hold their ground. And I think he did that both on the field after that pick. I thought he came out. What pick? Short memory. He made dangerous throws, put them in tight windows, and he made those throws. And you build on that. What’s your grade? I give it an A. Uh, and I last night I would have given it a B+ if you asked me for a grade last night. I actually What changed your mind? I rewatched the game actually at 6:00 this morning. Um, and I calmed myself down. I was very When I I talked to Mike right after I did my podcast, I was very agitated last night because of some of the comments that people were making to me on Twitter. I mean, not on Twitter. I wasn’t on Twitter on on my my uh during my show in the chat. And Mike said he he thought it was an A. And I was like, no. Because I was mad. And I I realized that in in the conversation that Mike and I had, I think I was taking out my frustration and my anger, which was fair because people were out of control. Don’t read the comments. Uh well, no, but I I want to cuz I I like to. It usually works out great. I overreacted to it. Um but I I realized I said, “Huh, you know, I am I taking that out? Am I lowering Shador’s grade because I’m angry at some things people are saying to me?” So I I obviously calmed down after I slept. I got up at 6:00 this morning. I purposely set my alarm because I wanted to watch the game first thing in the morning and I rewatched it and I just said, “Okay, yeah, it wasn’t a perfect game. Certainly not.” But I think the the negatives was so few that the positives considering, yeah, okay, I got to consider the Titans stink, but there’s so many other things going against him in this situation between weather, between, you know, the fact that he was a fifth round pick. Have we ever seen a worse offensive line for the Browns ever? Well, I I can’t remember it. I on paper, I actually didn’t think they played that bad yesterday. You know, they gave him three and a half seconds to throw the ball. Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. That was pretty just to finish my thought. I just I just think there was so many things going against him in this game, including the fact that there’s just like he’s got more pressure than any young quarterback and certainly more pressure than any fifth round pick in the history of the sport. And the fact that he was a fifth round pick is why he got so little in terms of reps and whatever. It wasn’t unfair. It wasn’t a conspiracy theory. He was a fifth round pick and but that works against him when he’s a starter just like it would work against every other fifth round pick that’s a quarterback. And yet he overcame it all to play as well as he did after the team blew the lead. Disappointing defense, bad special teams, no running in none. None. Quinton Jkins had a 14 yard run. Besides that, he averaged less than a yard per carry. They had no In fact, their best running game was him. It was him. They didn’t have a running game. I I think that was an A performance. Okay. Uh and I don’t hold the loss on him at all. I think in general, we’re all in the same ballpark. Yeah. B+ A minus A. Uh I would say about the comments, B. I’m not worried about it. I I I just put it because I was saying it was affect it was affecting my my picture on it and I had to take that away. Yeah, but you’re better you’re you’re better than that. You tr trust your gut. I mean fine went back. I’m not I it wasn’t a factor in anything I said. It was only a factor when I had a conversation with Mike off the air cuz I was angry in that moment and so that’s why I needed to calm down and and reassess. It’s all it’s it’s all right to change your mind when you get new material information. It’s also kinder, gentler. Bull bull called me because all last week when I was on the panel, I was predicting Shador was going to have this good game and Bull was like, “It’s not going to happen. It’s not going to happen.” I was right. So, it came back to me because I was right on that. But, we got a couple of things we have to dive into today, guys. We have to get into some of these decisions the Browns made late in the game. We’re going to get to it after a quick word from FanDuel. NFL Sundays move fast. One big play and suddenly everything feels different. That’s what makes live betting with FanDuel so exciting. You’re not just watching the game, you’re reacting to it in real time. With FanDuel, you can place bets as the action unfolds. Every drive, every momentum swing, every highlight. So, if you want to be right in the middle of the action this season, visit fanuel.com and place your NFL live bets all season long. FanDuel, the game moves fast and so can you. G, you alluded to this earlier, but we had to talk about Kevin Stfansky. He decided to go for two the first time. It did not work. It was a botch snap and a fumble. on the second two-point conversion play. It was a wild dog potential reverse and maybe Quinn Sean Judkins forgot the play. Whatever it was, it did not work. It resulted in the backup uh the running back, excuse me, throwing the ball across the field 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage. So, G, I’ll ask you this question first and then Bo, I want to hear your rebuttal. Do you believe Kevin Stfansky cost the Browns the game yesterday, G, by his decisions late in the fourth quarter? Man, yeah. What are you talking about? Like look, if I know I get the debate and guess what? I’ve talked to a bunch of people, some analytics guys, people that that love analytics and and I sat on the phone and text with them for two hours, way more than I should have probably texting talking about the difference between why you go for two to start with that play if you’re down 14. And we went round and round in circles. And I will agree with one thing. We ain’t going to see eye to eye on it. you either you in that that that over there or you over here like because it’s like speaking Mandarin Chinese to each other because I’m just like bro give yourself a chance to go to overtime and they like no listen if you be if you’re aggressive we want to stand on the side of aggressiveness that being aside right I’ll let Jay and Bull argue about that I know they got to cook Jason you can meet moderate that one but the problem I got is this this is malpractice man you know last week I was upset about the 49ers game and I was mad that Kevin Sansky did not call a timeout when they were running the play inside their own 20 in bad weather and they chose to run a tight end sneak. They fumbled the football when guys are running in and out of the game and you turn the football over in a in a one possession two-point game that you’re trying to fight to win and you you that right there that puts you in a position where they automatically going to score. You follow that up this week. Shador Sanders has led you down the field twice. He led you down the field. He put the ball on the money. The team is vibing. Everybody is excited. The Browns got the momentum. And you take your quarterback out. And not only did you take him out in one of the most pivotal g times of the game, you take him out to run a play that was the most ridiculous play. I don’t know what happened. What are you giving the ball to a running back doing reverse throw? He I don’t know if he forgot that he was supposed to hand it off, whatever the case may be. And I get it. Tommy Reese is calling the plays. For all the people say, “Hey, Tommy is calling the plays. He handed that over to Kevin Stfansky.” It’s out of pocket. That is the most crazy thing in the world. I’m the head coach. It ends and stops with you. If I’m running a two-point conversion for the for my game, for the for to win and I take my quarterback out, if that was Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, any like people would be going crazy. And I get the fact that he’s not those guys at this particular point, but take it into context the way he was playing, the way he was throwing the football and and putting your team in the best position to get a two-point conversion and that was the play you came up with to me is it’s just always it’s is week after week and if you this is before Shidor Sanders. I was talking like this when they had Baker Mayfield. I was talking like this about Kevin Sinsky when they had Jacobe Brassette and Joe Flacko and whoever quarterbacks that they had during that time period. I don’t like that you’re doing this cute stuff in in crunch time and you take your quarterback out. That’s the lynch pin of what you’re trying to do. And here’s the thing. We spent all last week trying to tamp down noise about whether or not Shador was the P his fans is telling that that Kevin Sansky is sabotaging him. You’re sabotaging Shador Sanders. And then when you’re like, “Okay, we finally got over that. We keep it pushing.” Then you do this. I can’t even say nothing to you. I’m just like, well, here you go. Have at it, bro. Because this looks crazy. Even Even seasoned veteran coaches and people in the media is like, what was that? I can’t explain it. I don’t understand why you would run that play. I guys, maybe I came in here today trying to trying to figure out maybe you can counsel me, but I just don’t understand why your quarterback is out of the game and that’s the play you run in crunch time. I don’t get it. Well, you can’t love it when it works and hate it when it doesn’t work. I don’t love it when it works. I No, you sat here and said you loved having the wild dog or the wild whatever cat, whatever way. Not with two points for the game. But yeah, well, what’s difference is if they’re at the goal line getting ready to score. Yeah. If you love it, you love it. It’s worked multiple times down there. But in this instance, because I do think you have to have a feel for the game. I do agree Shador should have been on the field. So, the funny part is like two things can be true, right? Like, yeah, Shador should have been on the field. Yet, the design of the play was perfect. It’s perfect. If Quinshon makes the pitch, he’s a walk-in conversion. But a rookie made a rookie mistake because when you’re counting on rookies, rookies are going to make rookie mistakes. And Quinn Sean just forgot the play and didn’t make I think just from I wasn’t in the locker. That’s what it looked like. All 22. So, I hated the play call for the record. And then when the all 22 came out this morning, I was like, “Oh, he was wide open.” Well, the play was it was going to work. still hate the fact they took Shidor off the field. I’m with you with that. That’s why I’m saying two things can be true. Right. Like all he has to do is make the pitch and it’s a walk-in score. But and the funny thing is what put him in that spot was going for two the first time when Shador fumbles a snap. So again, it’s a rookie making a rookie mistake. It’s center we couldn’t really see on TV if he fumbled it or was a bad the center. Listen, here’s what I’m going to say. The center the center snap the situation. Now I mind you, it’s Luke Whipler. It is snowing. It is a backup center. Coaches was out of the game. I haven’t seen the play to see whether or not it was the quarterback that pulled out too quickly, right? Or whether it was the center. So, I’m Yeah, that was crazy. By the way, speaking of which, uh, note the fact that Shador Sanders is a championship level ass smacker in in the in when he’s coming out. Is he? It’s a fact. He’s He gives a hard smack of the I noticed that one way or another. I noticed that. Check it out. Like, I want What was the first play called? Love it. Gush. You You guys You guys can slug it out about whether or not they should have gone for it for two. Uh but the I I’m interested in knowing what was the play called. We never saw the play the snap because if they convert that it’s a completely different conversation. To me it’s it’s silly to argue it because everybody as G said has already picked their camp about whether you go for two think it’s a good play. Okay. Okay. I’m with you 99.9% of the time in this instance because like G you know this when you’re at the goal line it’s all on the offensive line everything. It is such a condensed area. You got a 12 yard so good at that. It is all red zone, but especially at the goal line. And when you look at what the Browns were dealing with, their tackles have been atrocious all year long. You’ve got a new right guard for the first time yesterday. Now your center’s out. So for that, I do think you at least have to pause and reconsider. Is this the right time? Because normally down 14, you score, you’re down eight, go for two. Period. It’s like it’s like blackjack. You split eights. It doesn’t matter what’s on the other side, you split eights. And I’m with that 99% of the time. Yesterday is the one time where it’s like, man, I don’t know what what changed everything is when they move the extra point back. That’s when teams started going for two because extra points are no longer a sure thing anymore. Like that’s still a high percentage, but not not a guarantee. Not a guarantee. So nine times out of 10, nine and a half times out of 10. I’m in the go for two camp. yesterday just because of what they were dealing with up front. They very clearly very clearly do not have confidence in running the ball at the goal line. They don’t have confidence in this run game. That’s why they keep going to the Wildcat because they don’t even if Shador’s on the field if if all he’s going to do is turn around and hand it off, you might as well here’s here I like context. I’m if I’m a coach or a player, I want my best player to have the rock. Yep. And yesterday it was unequivocal. The best player the Cleveland Browns had was Shador Sanders. He get he got you on the goal line. There was times where where it wasn’t available. He scrambled and got in. He made great decisions on the goal line. He put the ball in on the money and two times in the back of the in the corner of the end zone. So for me, I’m going to roll the I’m going to roll with who who who brought me to the dance at that point. I’m going to put the ball in his hands. He got a run pass option. Now play action to Quinn Sean. Throw it to Fannon in the end zone. By the way, I throw to me on on in two-point conversions. I’m going to throw the ball almost every time unless my running game is dominating. I’m going to usually throw the ball there because it’s like a third, you know, it’s like three yards basically, especially where you coming from when you if you hand off the the running back’s got to get three yards. That’s not that’s not easy to do. So, but here’s the thing, like I go into all these decisions, the numbers say like you should go for two in that situation. You have a better chance to win the game. Now, so my default if I were a coach would be to go for it in that situation. Now, I think once you get past the numbers, then you use the okay, the feel for the situation. And I get what you’re saying about about the situation. There was a little part of me that also thought, and I said it on my podcast last night. It’s like I understand why the anti going for two people in this case were a little worked up. I think it’s silly to just come out and say kick the extra point. That’s silly, right? Yes. The numbers do bear out. Not anymore. Yeah, they do. No, the numbers bear out. The percentages bear out. If you go for two and you’re down eight, what do you mean? What does that even mean? Not anymore. Well, the numbers used to bear it out. Yeah. If statistics aren’t updated, right, statistics are useless. In fact, not only are they useless, they work against you. Okay. So, what is the update? The old database was 48% conversion rate. The current database is 41%. What do you mean the current? This season 20 2024, the most recent data set we have, 2024. Yeah. The league is a breathing organism. It changes all of the time. You’re saying there’s only been 41% of twopoint conversions. I’m not saying that. That’s the fact. Is that Is that the case? That is the case. But the So, so Jay, I I understand what you’re saying from a historical context. And and NBC is the biggest abuser of this of all. They are they’re constantly showing and ESPN does this a lot, too. Well, the analytics say go the people I know that are truly analytical, and I mean not the NFL analytic crowd. I’m talking about the true statisticians, the people that crunch numbers for insurance companies, for instance, where it’s life or death and money is made and lost on those numbers. Actuaries, those people will tell you that updated data sets are imperative to the information before you make a decision. And here’s another reason why that logic is flawed. That logic is flawed because it doesn’t take into account field conditions, defense that you’re playing against, how your team does in those. Nobody’s not factoring into these decisions. But you’re assuming that No, no. You’re assuming the book is on league averages. Nobody I Everybody, everybody, you think everybody follows the same book? No, but Bull, what I’m saying is like for when we talk about these things and we say, well, you know, the numbers say you got to go for it, right? The old numbers said that it’s a statistically okay play to go for. And by the way, at 48% you’re still chasing points. That means you’re getting it less than one in every two. You’re you’re trying to avoid you’re trying to avoid overtime one. You game there. See, I’m not. So, and that’s my thought. My my premise is you go at this and you you’re trying I don’t understand why people started trying to avoid overtime. I don’t either, J. That’s my thinking. Like, do you not have faith in your team that you have the momentum, you go in overtime, let’s get it done. That’s okay. That is the foundation for my decision on all of this. And and and I’m glad you went there. Because I know that there used to be this idea, oh, you don’t you don’t want to go to overtime. Here’s why I do want to go to overtime. If I currently sit 14 points in the rears, for me to get to overtime means I have to have two touchdown drives on my defense. Has to come up with two stops. Mhm. Which means your team is playing well defensively and your team is playing well offensively. Get me to overtime, please. I want overtime. I You know what? I would I I feel like as fans we were robbed of something yesterday. I wanted to see Shadur Sanders in overtime of a tied game when half the stadium emptied out with eight minutes to go in the game. I wanted to see that. Put the pressure on them. Hey, you just lost a 14-point lead. Now, now you got to play us again. And don’t let us get the football. And so, and and that’s the thing like now there’s a lot of factors like I had one buddy say, “Hey, it’s a lo it’s a win-win. If you don’t get it and you get the loss, you help your overall greater cause with the draft. And I don’t know that that went into the thinking or not yesterday. I would hope it didn’t. Not going to think. I would hope it didn’t. But my silver lining was not getting to overtime was well, we had a positive result in the draft column. But in terms of the numbers and the data set, I just think that and I honestly believe that the league is starting to make its shift on use of analytics. I’m not saying abandon analytics. I’m not saying that at all. In fact, I am if if I had to be pro or anti-analytics, I would say that this is where I stand on this. I’m pro- analytics when used properly. And I think that in general, a lot of these decisions are made on huge and antiquated data sets. Last night during the Sunday night football game, what’s that? I doubt that’s why would why would anybody organizations use antiquated databases? Paul, if you’re going to make the argument that statistically it’s a good play to go for it, right? That’s what is the percentage this year, Mike? Do you know? It’s I couldn’t find it. For some reason, I can’t find it. It’s Yeah, I couldn’t either. AI I see individual teams and I Yeah, I got the Browns are one of three. Yeah, Browns are one of three. Yeah, the Jets lead the NFL with five two-point conversions this year. Out of how many tries? Uh they’re five of eight. So, okay, that’s extraordinary. The last two full seasons they have Jay you’re right 41% in 2024 it was 55% though conversion rate. Okay. So yes but well here’s what I’m saying and and I think that this is so over the last two years not including this year it’s about 46 47%. Which is still a bad play but no it’s not. Yes it is. No an extra point is not 100%. If you get two No. But if you do the math and you figure out the league’s conversion rate on extra points, the fact that you’re you have a higher percentage of getting two extra points than you do getting one two-point conversion. And that’s what I’m saying. So the but it’s a minimal difference. Whereas you have you’re where you have a better chance of winning by getting a two-point conversion the first time than you do. You have no chance to win if you kick. Now you’re now you’re making a bet on on an outcome. Okay. Like you’re right. I will I will agree with that all day. If you convert that two-point conversion, your chance of winning goes dramatically up. What I’m saying here is and and this is a breathing thing. We’re seeing it. We’re we’re have we have more defense in the NFL this year than we’ve had in a long time. And I’ve said on this show since we started, it’s been trending that way. Defenses have caught up. They have. But is there is scoring down? I don’t know. I don’t I this is anecdotally, but when you when when I look at a team like the Kansas City Chiefs and the Buffalo Bills who are rolling 40s every week and watching them last night, I watched the I watched the Chiefs game, they scored 10 points. I I think defenses are better today. I think what we missing is as as a head coach, your job is to take the pulse and temperature of your team. And you can look at data and statistics and and other people may have different uh you know, points. Maybe they got receivers that they trust. Maybe they got two, three plays that they really believe in. Maybe the offensive line is running the ball great that day and they want to run it. To say that I’m going to go by the book means that you’re going to saying they’re going to go by the book. Well, I’m just saying most people who who argue with this, they talk they say the book says go buy it because of the statistical data behind it. What I’m saying is you got to take in consideration a number of things when you’re making that that play. You have to take in consideration the time that you guys have the football, the quarterback, how you’re playing, the weather, all of those things. But don’t you think teams take that into account? If a coach doesn’t take that into account, he should be fired. What I’m saying is that those and by the way, if the Browns make that two-point conversion, here’s why I’m confident that I’m right about this is because this never gets brought up when it works. Never. Never. It only gets brought up when it doesn’t work, which is actually more than it works. But but here’s but here’s the point. Last year, the year before it was, but here but you when you guys last year it went down 14%. Okay, things have been flowing. That tells me the defense has put much greater. Yes, it does. But it also says the defenses have prioritized that play. But what we’re talk But what we’re talking about is it’s a double compounded issue. You compounded the fact that forget the fact that you went for it or whatever, didn’t get it. They compounded the issue by going for two, having a terrible play in, and keeping your best player off the field. All those things work against you. That’s a separate argument. That is a separate argument. two different arguments. I did not like the play I did not like the play call. I don’t to me if I’m trying to tie the game to set, you know, at the end of the game, I’m not running a trick play. And even though it has worked, I’m not as high. I haven’t been on high as high as those guys have been. But, uh, I I would not have run a trick play in that. To Jay’s point though, I I agree with you. Like, if you don’t have a play that you can run and just our best against your best, that’s where the Browns are right now. They don’t Well, and it feels they’re not gonna win that. I don’t have the numbers. I I should have looked this up. It feels like Kevin’s going for it less on fourth down this year than he has in the past. I feel like he is too because of the personnel because he doesn’t have faith in the because the offense sucks. So that goes back to can the offense didn’t suck yesterday. No, it didn’t. But can you get the can you get I mean the the ners are the the Titans are one of the worst team in in the league. If you’re at the 40 a playbook looks a whole lot different than if you’re at the three. If you’re at the two or the three 100% the field is that’s why it goes back to the offensive line and you have to if they had a better offensive line. Yeah. Let’s go. I would say I would be right with bowl on go for the two. No, you wouldn’t. You like going for if I’m feel Jay, you’re not hearing what I’m saying. I’m saying you have to look at every set of circumstances. If I’m if I’m seriani and I’m coaching scream about this every time it comes out because I’m talking about the Browns every time. Do I have confidence that the Browns can get two or three yards on a play? I I just don’t like with Philly. And I know that even this year, Detroit’s fourth uh fourth down conversion is way down. And you can look at them, they’re still going to probably make the playoffs. They’re not having the year that they had before. But their coach just rolls the dice every time. He’s going to roll the dice. Sometimes you win with those roles. Sometimes you lose with those roles. I think the number one factor in making decisions as to going forward on fourth and one or going for two instead of one, what do you have? Yeah. If you statistically have the 31st ranked offense, they’re not going to convert at 41%. That’s why that’s why I I that’s why this one is so hard for me because of this. It it really comes down the offensive line. It’s not the receivers. It’s not the quarterback. It’s really the offensive line. Can you get the push that you need at the goal line? Can I ask you this? With the state of their line, would it make a difference for you if this were a playoff game? Uh I don’t know. I I don’t know. You’re not sure? Yeah, I don’t know. It’d be it’d be war it would be World War II seven. People would be going crazy in a playoff situation. People would be going crazy if he had done yesterday. And by the way, what he I think the way the game went yesterday, I think this is the end of the Kevin Stfansky era. I just do. I can no longer advocate for him remaining as the head coach. And that hurts me to say that because I do think he’s a good coach. Isn’t the play call the Tommy Reese’s fault? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what I like though? Yesterday Kevin Stfansky says, “Nope, that was my call because he’s getting the sword.” And I like that. I like that. A lot of other coaches said, “I I didn’t make that call.” Now, I don’t know why we can’t find two-point conversion numbers for this year. Kevin can’t Well, you can, but it’s a long route. What you have to do is you have to go team by team and add them up. Kevin Kevin can veto the play call, but you got like 10 seconds. You got like 10 15 seconds. And it’s not like like we’re acting like yesterday is the first time they ran this. They’ve been running this all year in practice, but you just talked about circumstances. I don’t like I don’t like running I when you if you’re uh I’m not defending it. They should have run it, but I’m saying we’re acting like they’ve never done this before. No, I know. I just I don’t think you need to to when Shidor Sanders is playing well. He had played great down the stretch. And by the way, for all the people saying the conspiracy theories, well, uh, you could say that Kevin showed a lot of faith in Shador Sanders by having him to go for two the first time with with them down 14 instead of taking him off the field and kicking and he believed in him. So now, B, would it have mattered to you if it was a playoff game and you did that? I would have still gone for it. For me, yes. I in most scenarios, I I think that’s the default option to me is to go for two. I want to win the game. I want to have a better chance. What gives me the better chance to win the game? And I think that’s going for two. All right, we got our guest, guys. So, let’s put a pause on this. We’re going to bring in Daniel Oafussi here in one second after a quick word from game time. The World Cup is coming back to North America for the first time since 1994 with 48 teams. It’s the first time ever. It’s the biggest World Cup ever. And let’s be honest, getting tickets is going to be the hardest part. That’s why Game Time is clutch, giving fans a real advantage when it comes to snagging seats. With Game Time, you can track ticket price drops in real time. Get alerts when great seats open and buy tickets the moment they hit the app. It puts the power back in your hands, making going to the World Cup realistic instead of impossible. Take the guesswork out of buying World Cup tickets and every match, concert, or event with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, and use promo code lockdown NFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Once again, just download the account, make a code, and use promo code locked on NFL for $20 off. Swipe tap ticket and go download game time today. And with that, we are thrilled to welcome in ESPN Browns Beat reporter Daniel Oafussi to the show. Daniel was at the game yesterday. How you doing today, Daniel? Doing good. Doing good. Thanks for having me. I wish we had something to talk about. Great. Right. It’s boring Monday. Boring Monday. Yeah. The good thing is there’s never lack of things to talk about. Daniel, let’s start with your overall impressions. We started the show by giving a grade for Shador Sanders. What did you have him at yesterday overall? Yeah, I mean, I think you got to give him a a strong A. Now, was he perfect? No. Um, I think, you know, that interception that he threw in the third quarter, late in the third quarter, really kind of turned the the tide and uh shifted the momentum. Um, but I think every week we’ve seen improvements and I think that late in that game when you needed him to to really rise to the occasion, he he did. Um, so you know, you’re kind of grading on a curve and, you know, grading him based on the circumstances. Um, I I have to give him an A just for the way that he’s improving uh little parts of his game uh every week and then, you know, coming in big when they needed it most. You know, Daniel, we you know, it’s hard for us to to kind of tell, you know, you hear things different things either way, but when you look at Shador Sanders, um, how do you how do you feel like the the players are gravitating to him? you know, we talked about on this show sometimes he’s a, you know, he’s a he’s a lightning route outside in terms of the media and the fan base. Uh, he generates a lot of buzz in house. How do you feel like they’re gravitating them to to him and as him being a leader and and do you think that that has also progressed over over the first uh three three games that he started? Yeah. Well, I I would say that I think that, you know, his teammates are gravitating to him and and he noted that it’s a little bit different um you know, for for him, you know, being the backup and being the the third quarterback for for a long part of this season, but now that he’s in that starting role, he’s really to kind of like be himself. He doesn’t have to make parts of his personality. He’s he drowns sometimes, but he can also get serious as well. So being in that starting role has kind of given him that agency and that power to to really uh um lead in his unique fashion. And I think at the end of the day like guys want somebody who they think is going to be able to lead them and make plays. I think that you’re seeing it from the vets, you know. I think you’re seeing it from from the most tenured vet on the team, Joel Batonio. He says like I told him after the game like you’re a competitor and I appreciate that like you’re fighting to the very end. Um he’s showing he’s showing that he can make plays. um at the end of the day like they want a guy that they think that they can go out there and win with. And I think that, you know, through three starts so far, one one being a win and two some some tough losses. Uh despite that, I think he’s shown that he can he can make plays and lead these guys to wins. I think that’s what they gravitate to really at the end of the day. Daniel, what I I what stood out the most to me yesterday was I thought it was the first time all season that the quarterback lifted the play of the rest of the team. Right. I thought the the line pass blocked. I thought the pass blocking, considering how many injuries there were, I thought it was very good. The wide, like we looked like we had a legitimate group of pass catchers yesterday and I thought he really picked them up with some great anticipatory throws and guys were on the same page for the most part. Do you agree with that? Yeah, I do. And I think that that it goes back to what I was talking about about like them making uh Shador making th those strides from from game to game. So, like when he went in in the second half of the Baltimore game, like he looked like a a fifth round pick who hadn’t gotten a ton of reps with the first team offense. And then you go to the Raiders game where you see a little more comfort. Um, you see the natural playmaking ability and then you go to to the 49ers game which I thought that like was a little bit shaky in terms of him leaving plays on the field and he talked about how he needs to feel confident to let it rip. You know, we we didn’t we didn’t see him hesitate in that Titans game. you know, you saw a lot of confidence and you saw the accumulation of those reps as well as like these little things like the pocket management that even Kim Mansky talked about um him knowing when to to give up on a play. That was like honestly one of the the underrated parts of his game yesterday out. He would buy some time, but there were a couple third downs where he just threw the ball away and he was like, we’ll live to see another down. Um so again, you’re saying that gradual progression uh that it really leaves you to believe that the outlook could be bright for Shador Sanders. Danny, we’ve been slugging it out for 15 minutes over the two-point conversions. Just the idea to go for it down eight. Forget the play call itself, but just put that aside. Just the idea to go for two, down eight. Where do you fall on that? Are you analytics or are you non-analytics? Yeah. I mean, the I’m usually an analytics guy and I guess like there’s like the down eight test. You know, you you you’re play to win the game. Like that that’s really what the analytics say. you play to win the game and the thought process that you’re going to get at least one of those two point conversions. So if you get the first one then hey all you need is a all you need is a extra point to win the game but if not you know the thought process is that you’re going to get at least one of those two. So if you get the second one then you’re at least tying it and you’re going to overtime. Um really for me it’s like the the like having a a feel and it’s like Kevin DeFancy isn’t calling plays. Tommy Reese is like he hasn’t been calling plays since week 10. So, you know, if you’re in that that CEO role as a head coach, like it’s like you need I need you to be like really locked in situational football having a feel for the game and which is why I specifically wanted to ask Kevin about the the the process of of calling that Wildcat play. And he said that before they even scored, like when they were driving down the field, it was already set in stone that they were going to run that Wildcat play. So that leads me to believe that like, okay, well, there was no room for for for, you know, just having a feel for the game and saying like, hey, I’ve got this. I’ll be a rookie quarterback that is hot. He he’s been driving them down the field the last two the last two possessions like, “Hey, let’s keep the ball in his hands.” Hey, a fan. And they haven’t been able to cover him all game. Let’s try to draw something up. Um, the play in itself, I don’t think what was terrible because they they all like they they run the Wildcat formation throughout, you know, the season at various points. I mean, usually it was it’s just a direct snap and they run like a power or just right up the middle, but they kind of ran a variation of it with the reverse. And for whatever reason, you know, the execution wasn’t there. I don’t know if Quinchron had an had a had an option to to to to hand it off on the pitch on the reverse or if it was like, you know, he was just supposed to I I don’t know. I don’t know. They we haven’t heard yet. Um, so like obviously now that the play fails, everyone’s going to going to, you know, going to pile on it. But, you know, in theory, like the process wasn’t wasn’t awful, but you know, I just kind of think like in that moment, there has to be some wiggle room for like, you know, the circumstances of the game and how things have been trending. And yeah, like in that moment, I would have kept the ball in saying short. I want to know what the first two-point conversion was. Yeah. So, like honestly, we didn’t see it because they fumbled the snap, but I mean, this could be a completely different conversation if that one worked. No, exactly. Exactly. And I mean Joel said that both of those plays were plays that they had run, you know, every Friday throughout the season. He said that they ran at at uh against Philly and during practices. So then I started racking my brain trying to think cuz I remember they threw they I remember Kevin was practicing some trick plays in Philly. So then I was trying to think of like what they could have been doing there. I know there was like a a little double pass for Herald Fannon that they did back then. I don’t know. Um but at the end of the day, you know, like we’re this is a resultsbased business. So, at the end of the day, like you see two failed conversions, a 31 to 29 loss, um, and now the pitchforks are out and like that’s that’s the nature of the business, but um, yeah, I mean, hindsight is, you know, whatever. Like, I I probably would have given the ball to Shador in that moment. Um, but they didn’t, and now they have to live with the results. Daniel, let’s uh, talk about the defense here. Miles Garrett did get his one sack to get to 20, leaving him just two and a half away from tying three from beating the record. But the defense arguably played its worst game of the year against an offense that had been the worst in football. Tony Pollen, who looked like he’s washed up the last two years, ran all over the Browns yesterday. How big a how big a factor do you think Malik Collins not playing was in all of this of all the struggles of defense, but especially the running game? Yeah, I was watch re-watching the game this morning and I couldn’t help but think like, you know, was there maybe like a triple down effect because you without him you had um you know, Mason Graham kind of playing his he was playing 45 snaps but then you had Shelby Harris, Mike Call, Sam Chimera, like all those guys played season high snaps. Um I don’t want to say like he had I mean I don’t I don’t think you just take Malik Collins out of the lineup and then they run for 160 or whatever it was yards on the ground. I I I don’t think it was that pronounced. Um, but I do think that, you know, you did see a little bit of that. And I honestly like I just got to give credit to to the Titans. I thought really smart game plan in terms of, you know, really starting with what they did against to to neutralize Miles, you know, always having a chip, getting the ball out very very quickly. At times they ran, you know, to him and they kind of used his aggressiveness against them. Um, and it was just really a bad day at the office for, you know, what was really like the best run defense in the NFL entering that game. Obviously, Malle Collins um would have helped, but I don’t want to say that um you know, you take him out and then you know uh running for 160 yards or allowing 160 yards is acceptable. It’s not. Yeah, it’s a fair point. The game plan was good. It was smart. They they took advantage of Miles Garrett’s overaggressive motor. They knew he came in wanting to get the sack. He was asked in pregame about getting the sack record as he stood four away. So, it’s obviously front of mind for not just fans, but for Miles. I mean, he was talking about it and I think his overaggressive they were running at him a lot and often times it was like two trains passing in the subway. Miles was zooming to the quarterback and the quarterback had already given off the ball to a running back who was gashing him right past Miles side. And um look, when you got nothing but records to play for and you’re not going for wins, I think that’s that’s probably going to happen. Do you think he gets the record, Daniel? I do. I do. I was honestly I was kind of selfishly like hoping he just like kind of knocked it out the way last Sunday. You know, I wrote a story on it. I was kind of asking about that on Friday. So, I was hoping like all right, he got four and we can kind of move on. But now I was like, “All right, it starts to get a little a little a little dicey with the uh with four I guess four games left. You need three sacks. You know, the next game is against the Bears offensive line and a a quarterback and Cayla Williams that’s been sacked I think fourth fewest in the NFL only 20 times. So, it’s going to get a little bit tougher. You know, got you got Aaron Rogers who gets the ball out quickly. I don’t think he had a sack against the Steelers the last time they played. Um so Josh Allen who Yeah. Yeah. So it’s going to get a little bit dicey, but I do think that um you know he’s been on such a tear the past couple weeks. I think that he he he gets to it. Might it might get a little close, but I think he he gets Josh Allen’s been sacked a lot this year surprisingly. I think he’s going to run it too. He’s got four games to get three. Daniel, thanks. We appreciate it. Appreciate you, man. See you, buddy. Good time. That was Daniel Oafussi ESPN report. Make sure you follow him on Twitter. Great insight from Daniel. Guys, we’re going to get back talk a little more defense now after a reminder that Aura Frames is a proud sponsor of the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. The holidays are officially here, which means gift hunting season is on. And if you want something meaningful, personal, and guaranteed to get a reaction, Aura Frames is the gift that delivers every time. It’s not just something you wrap. It’s a way to share memories. Because Aura isn’t just your average frame. You can preload the frame with photos before gifting it. So when they plug it in, the memories are already there. No apps to figure it out. No setup headaches, just instant smiles. For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by using auraframes.com and getting 35% off their bestselling Carver mat frames, named number one by Wire Cutter using promo code locked on at checkout. That’s aura frames. Aurframes.com. Promo code lockdown NFL. This deal is exclusive to listeners and the frames sell out fast. So, orders your now to get it on time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. All right, guys. We got to talk a little defense and a little rookies here. The defense, as you mentioned, Bull got gashed by the Titans running game. Tony Pard went crazy 160 plus yards. We have mentioned this defense in the elite category at different times this season, but Bull after what we saw them do against Tennessee. Is that fair or can we no longer put them in that elite category? I did not put them in elite. I said this two years ago when people were going nuts. There’s no elite defenses anymore in the NFL. is very good defenses and the Browns are a very good defense that played very poorly yesterday across the board. You want to say, well, you know, the offense in the third quarter put him in a tough spot. Shador fumbled and I mean threw the interception and Dylan Samson fumbled. That was a terrible fumble, by the way. You can’t just get the ball knocked out of your hands like that. That’s terrible. But I don’t care. a lot if if they were playing a good, you know, if we’re gonna hold for the people that are going to hold the Titans being bad against Shador Sanders, well then you can’t give the defense a pass for not being able to stop Tennessee with a short field because the Titans have the worst offense in football. So even on a short field, the Browns defense, if they were playing well, could have held those two turnovers to field goals, but they weren’t. They were touchdowns. The defense was terrible yesterday. Absolutely awful performance. They were really bad in the first quarter. I mean, this the Titans were just marching the ball up and down the field. Now, I thought Cam Ward played better than the numbers will say. I agree with that. I really I was impressed. He wasn’t as good as Shador, of course, but he’s also playing against a better defense. But I thought he played pretty well. I The numbers look bad. He executed the game plan. I thought I think he’s pretty good. I think the Titans would be stupid to move away from him. They have no talent around him. He had about four throws. I’m like, “Oh, that was that was cool.” You gotta put some talent around him. You can tell there’s there’s something there’s something there. No doubt. He missed a couple of throws by this much. That could have been big time. And he was And by the way, the most impressive thing is the fact that he was getting out of sacks, throwing the football away. Didn’t really put the ball in harm’s way that that much. But how about one sack was when Grant Delt was like a Rothberger right there. I thought they should have blown it dead. I thought he was in the grasp. I thought they were going to blow it. Grasp wasn’t really a thing anymore. I don’t know. I don’t know. But anyway, the defense defense was atrocious. Yes, they used Miles Garrett’s aggressiveness against him and that was a great game plan. I’m not going to kill Miles Garrett for that. He’s been great against the run all year. It didn’t work this week. What? No, I agree with you. Oh, yeah. So, um, uh, but yeah, there were not a lot like Devin Bush, the pick was a nice, uh, play by Devin Bush. He that was a really good play by him, but overall, we just didn’t get the impact plays that we’re used to from the defense. And Denzel Ward got hurt in the game, which hurt. Yeah. And McNuggets, I I’ll I’ll come to your defense. Well, I wasn’t here last week, so you know that wasn’t on me. We was in the postgame show and McNuggets is like, “Man, this what I’m talking about. I put all the time and effort into these stats. I be trying to tell y’all. And I told you about Malik Collins and y’all didn’t say nothing about it. You skimmed right over it. Y’all didn’t even watch that video. Well, Mikey McNuggets has been vindicated today cuz boy, Malik Collins was sorely missed in the middle of that defense. Malik Collins, what he allows you to do as a defensive tackle is you’re not going to be pulling and doing all the the mental gymnastics with backside tackles and all that other stuff, pulling around and running all that reverse motion and stuff because Malik Collins is in your back field. He is a game disruptor. He is a disruptor in the run game as well as the pass game. And you saw you saw a a precipitous drop in the level of game play from your defensive tackles. Mike Hall Jr. played a bad game. Shelby Harris played a bad game. And Shelby Harris is is, you know, he’s he aged right before our our very eyes. We see that he’s not a person that’s supposed to be taking up all those reps. And then Mason Graham was was was quiet and disappeared. But then again, Mason Graham is not a guy at this point of his career that you’re going to put in the middle of your defense and say, “Oh, you’re not about to run this football.” He’s just not there strength-wise. He’s not there sizewise at this point. So you saw what with the Malik Collins uh miss did and there was a few times where you saw guards and centers be able to climb to the next level and be on Carson Sweetinger. It was the first time this year I started to see I said oh they got linemen on Sweetinger in the second level. Usually he’s sideline to sideline because they have to pay attention to Malik College. G obviously was a factor but I agree with Daniel. You can’t use that as an excuse for why it was as bad as it was. It was a factor but not the only factor. I I think I think it’s 50/50, boy. I think that had a lot to do with it, but I think the game plan Mile I like Miles postgame comments. He was very I thought he was very transparent when he said, “Look, we thought we were going to come out here today and pin our ears back and get after the quarterback.” But the fact of the matter is, and we were aggressive, but the fact of the matter is you have to earn that right. Well, how do you earn that right? Stop the run. Put them down by two touchdowns. You got to stop the run. Put them into passing. Yeah. When you stop the run, then you can eat. you now can get the sacks and and and start to get the flashy plays on defense because you forced the quarterback to throw the football. It was early I thought early on it was frustrating for Miles because it felt like it doesn’t matter what I do, the ball’s out of his hand before I even get close to him. And that was I credit the Titans for their game plan. It was a wonderful game plan. They kicked our executed perfectly. Their quarterback wasn’t flashy throughout the game. He threw a lot of balls away, but he he pretty much made it a concerted effort. Miles Garrett is not going to get me on the grass and I’m not going to spend all day getting myself up off the ground, right? And because of that, they were able to to win the game. Real quick, and I’m curious, Steve, did you go back and watch 22 yet? Have you gone through? No, I haven’t seen it all yet. I watched all the Shador. I watched the I didn’t get to the defense yet. Miles was lining up super wide, which he usually does. I thought he was even wider on some plays than usual. And it feels like a couple of those, they call it the swinging door play. I’m not exactly sure the terminology on pulling lineman and all that, but they kind of ran into the hole that Miles vacated when he gets up field and pass rushes from that spot. And I’m curious when we go through when we watch the defensive ball 22 of his 160 yards. I’m going to guess and we’ll find out when the tape shows 120 of those came running right into the area vacated by Miles. I mean, I told you this a year ago, one of I’ve heard from other teams, all you got to do is just run right through the gap Miles vacates because Miles is just worried about sacks. Now, having said that, he’s done a much better job this year against the run. But I think getting close to the sack record, all the talk about this probably played into that and and that’s not going to go away the rest of the year. And yesterday felt like a return to what I mean, I told you that a year ago that’s one of the scout reports is, oh, you can just run right through the hole that Miles vacates. But also, I also think I’ve said this all year, this is a good defense. I think this defense, I don’t want this to get twisted. It is a good defense. I think it has been overrated by the fact that teams don’t ever have to do anything against them because they just wait for the Browns to be the Browns. And but when this when this defense really needed a stop against Minnesota, did they get it? No. Against the bad Minnesota offense. When they needed a stop against the Jets, did they get it? Bad offense? No. If you would have told me though going into this game that the Browns were going to score 29 and we were going to lose, I wouldn’t have that bet on anything. This is a good defense. This is a good defense. That is a very good defensive line. believe Collins. Yes, that was a that absence hurts. Of course, I just don’t I think this defense has been built up to be better than what it is because they haven’t been tested and the times that they have been tested, they have not delivered. I think sometimes I think sometimes we we boil it down to whether or not somebody is good or somebody is bad. I think we got to we we got to come to the extremes. Again, it’s like guess what guys, this the NFL. Any given week you come out there, you can lose to the worst team. They had a better game plan. They ran the football. Those guys get paid, too. Yeah, Malik Collins was out. Yeah, Miles Garrett is going for the sack record, but my coach used to always just tell us, man, listen, if you getting off double teams, ain’t nobody getting no sacks. If they running power, they running zone at you and they got double teaming you to the next level. A I ain’t seen a man get a sack yet on run plays. So, they came in and they said, “We going to establish the run.” And I knew it was going to be a problem because they were the the Titans were playing moving the line of scrimmage. When the Browns are good, they changed the line of scrimmage. And that way when you run the football, the running back is his momentum is stopped in the back field before he can make a decision. The Titans changed the line of scrimmage. They were moving people. And what Pard was doing was falling forward. He he would be there. He wouldn’t get touched till after two yards. Fall four for three. Yeah. He didn’t get touched for four. Now all of a sudden you in the secondary and I don’t care who you is. Hey, listen. Safeties, they don’t they ain’t supposed to be up there tackling all that time. So, I like the game plan they had. They they executed their game plan for the most part. They didn’t turn the ball over. And uh the Titans, whether you want to think they good or not, it’s the league. Everybody can get touch any given week. Yeah, I love what you said there. Uh we tren we always try to put the everybody, players, teams, units in camps. They’re great, they’re awful. The fact of the matter is there’s about three or four that are great and there about three or four that are awful and there’s about 24 of them that are just in the middle. Fluctuate. They fluctuate. It’s a week- toeek league, isn’t it? I mean, and and this team can beat Green Bay and can lose to the Titans. Go figure. It’s why NFL is fun, right? It is. It makes it interesting because you just don’t know. It’s the best league in sports. Uh we have 82 minutes into the show. We have not given enough credit to two players individual on the Browns who we’re going to do after a quick word from a homebuilders association. gift big this year with a home for the holidays raffle. You have a chance to win a beautiful new custom home or a cash prize this holiday season and help make wishes come true for Makea-Wish kids with critical illnesses. Raffle proceeds benefit Makea-Wish Okay, which has granted over 22,000 wishes to children facing critical illnesses all across Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana since 1983. This year’s house is a customuilt ranch by Pro’s Homes has three bedrooms, two and a half baths, and a threecar garage. Just visit a home for the holidays.org to buy your tickets. That’s a home for the holidays.org. Terms and conditions apply. All right guys, it’s time for the rookie report. And Shadore, we made a whole 35minute topic off the top, so we talked him at length, but Harold Fannon was incredible yesterday, guys. His best game as a rookie over a 100red yards. BS the first tripledigit receiving yard game for a Browns receiver this season. I want to start with you on this one, B. Harold Fannon everything and then some, including the touchdown at the end where he mossed the Titans defensive back to uh bring the Browns in a position to tie it up. Obviously, the two-point conversion didn’t work, but he was incredible yesterday. By the by the way, the Browns can’t do anything right because they nom they they put out David Njoku as their uh Pro Bowl nominee at tight end and not Harold Fannon, which is ridiculous. Harold Fannon was sensational in the game yesterday. He and Shadore have a great connection. You saw it right off the bat in a big spot. I need a first down. I’m in the red zone. I’m in a, you know, third and short situ. He’s looking for Fannon first. And, you know, early in the season, Fannon had some drop issues. And not that he’s never going to drop the ball. He has. He had a I think he had a drop last week if I remember, but for the most part, he’s really improved already. And you talk about a guy who was playing at a lower level of division one football at Bowling Green. Easy. No offense, guys. No offense. Wow. Big fella. Come on. Now, I’m saying like it’s I’m not that Ben Rothberger play, bro. He’s definitely in LSU every Exactly. No, but when he played Penn State and Texas A&M, he got over 100 yards both times, right? But the point is like he wasn’t like he wasn’t playing with NFL teammates. So there’s further it was further for him to go and on like he’s what’s his yardage now for the season? 6 something. 619 to lead the team. Yeah. So let’s say he finishes with I don’t know 800 yards as a rookie tight end on a bad team. That’s amazing. He’s already set the record for the Browns rookies, right? as Azie Newsome. He is now the Browns single season rookie tight end receiving record. He’s going to break a lot of Aussiey’s record. He is uh may may end up being their best tight end since Aussie Newsome. I think he will be. He looks tremendous. If he stays healthy, this guy is just what a talent he is and what a weapon because you know that’s a position where half the teams in the league really don’t have anybody, right? You know what I mean? So if he that’s a bonus that you get something out of it. I mean, that’s huge to have that. And I think, you know, obviously they got all kinds of cap issues. I I I know he they like a lot of tight ends, but I would let David Njoku walk. I’m not paying him anything. I would think and this is my guy. I want this guy to be my tight end for the next decade. He’s tremendous. this guy the the the most I think after quarterback everybody knows quarterback is the diff most difficult to adjust to but a lot of people a lot of scouts a lot of people GMs and coaches will say the most difficult position to really acclimate yourself to is tight end because you have to do two things about when David and Jooku was here it took him years to figure out how it was that I had to go about being a blocker understanding how would you know because you got to run routes you got to know the route tree you got to know the the the the nuances of finding the zone coverage and figuring that out. You got to block, you got to have you’re he’s in motion all the time and the fact that he’s able to only be able to handle that from a physical standpoint, but a mental standpoint shows a lot. I mean, he you know, in the biggest accomplishment, you know, he just became the most famous uh Camp McKinley Bulldog. Youcliped G. Bush. I cannot believe it. Harold, you came out of nowhere and just came. No, I’m playing, joking. But this guy, shout out to him being a a bulldog. Shout out to him being a M dude, but the most impressive thing for me is I love the way when he catches the ball. I don’t know where this comes from. Maybe he is a dog. He is a dog after all. He does not let one person tackle him. Never. He He feels this disrespect like, “Oh, you brought one guy. You better get more people to come to the party because it’s going to It’s going to be a long day if you think these corners and DB is going to tackle me. He’s going to take his pound of flash and he go he you could dump it off to him and I thought Shador did a great job of doing that with Jerome Ford, Dylan Samson, and him by saying, “Let me get the ball to these guys and let them work.” By the way, hey Bo, real quick on the Yak thing cuz I was going to make bring this up earlier. Yeah. After yesterday, well, he had 60 Yak yards yesterday, by the way. He had 114 yards. 60 were Yak, right? That brings his season total up to 329 yak yards. That is the fifth most among all tight ends in the NFL. And it’s more than half of his yards. Guys, you know where? You know, he is already I didn’t think it would be this high. I knew it would be higher than maybe you’d think, but he has the 17th most yards by a rookie tight end in the history of football. And we’ve got four games to go. How take tell me what you think. What What you think he’ll end up with yardage? I think he’s going to get to 900. 900. What do we got? How many games? 638. If he averages 60 yards a game, that gives him 320. Yeah. Added to what he’s got there, that’s 958. Okay. Jeremy Shocki is fourth all time in receiving yards by a tight end as a rookie. Yeah. Fourth all time. 8.94. So if he gets 895 or more, he will. There’s three. Brock Bowers last year’s the most. Yeah. And then Mike Ditka in ‘ 61 had,78. Crazy. And then actually the third guy’s been a disappointment in the league, but he was good as a rookie. Kyle Pittz. Yeah, Pitts was highly regarded. 726 and that’s it. I mean, you there’s only seven players in the history of the NFL with more than seven 726 receiving yards as a tight end. Only drafted. Bowers was drafted in the first round. So Pitts was a first round pick. Pitts was a first round pick. Was a first round. Shocki was a first round pick. Shock was a first round. Leaporta’s fifth all time. I don’t I think he was a second round pick. He was a second or third round. G your point about uh that’s position where a lot is asked of you. Yesterday I saw him and I’ve seen him do this in other games so far this year too. I saw him shimmy shake a corner and I saw him steamroll a corner. Yeah. So you’re talking about and what makes these great tight ends is a diverse skill set. We saw it with Travis Kelce, Aaron Hernandez, Rob Gronowski. These guys had the ability to run with corners which is rare. These guys these are big guys. But yesterday he had a couple routes where he was isolated with corners and he got open. He threw they threw a fade to this man. Fade to him. And by the way, my favorite thing, my favorite moment of yesterday’s game was the energy that he came up with after that touchdown catch. Oh yeah. That’s what I saw at Bowling Green. One of the things that I saw aside from the ability to get open and to run with the football after his first contact. The other thing that I thought separated him at BG was he was the fire. He was as How many teams can you say that the tight end’s the fire to the offense? This guy was the fire. He was It was constantly stoking. And that when this team I I’m telling you, when they get good and I feel more confident right now in this moment that within the next three years, we’re going to be a competitive team. 2029, that’s the year. All right. But I I honestly feel like the building blocks are in place. the rookie classes that are the rookie class that is in place right now. If you can duplicate that one of the next two years, it makes me greatly excited to think of him catching a touchdown pass in the end zone against Pittsburgh in week 17 to win the division and the fire that he is going to have for that moment and how that’s going to absolutely catch the entire stadium on fire. Yesterday it was lost because there were 25,000 people there. Well, it hasn’t happened. Mike’s never It’s never happened in Mike’s lifetime. In Anony’s lifetime, G. Bush was about five the last time the Browns won the division. So, it would be good for all. How old was the last time? 89. 89. Oh, no. I was kind of old. I was like eight. Other rookie we got to mention real quick, Sweinger. 13 tackles yesterday, a pass breakup. G, I know you mentioned in the run game offensive lineman were able to kind of get up and get into him a little more, but I do want to mention he’s the first What happened? rookie offensive line able to get up into the second level and and block. Uh he’s the first rookie with 100 tackles this season. He’s top five in the NFL in tackles with 118 now. And on another week, it’s another time where Carson Swessinger looks like an absolute Where is he in tackle in the tackle race? Third. Uh I I I actually think he played a great game yesterday. I He was fine. You know, tackles just having tackles alone is not doesn’t mean you had a great game. I mean, but it’s a lot of tag. There’s more to it than that. But it means I didn’t think he had a I didn’t think he made an impact a big impact on the game even though he had a million. How far behind the leader is he? Jordan Brooks is 142. Jesus had tremendous year. No doubt. Well, you right. Here’s I’m going to ask the question cuz we going to get to this. I mean, we just named I I heard somebody I don’t forget who it was. A former player say this is the greatest draft class we’ve seen in 20 years. It is. It’s not hyperbole for the Browns. Yes. Is that Is that hyperbole for the Browns? It’s not hyperbole. It’s the greatest draft class ever. No. Any team? He’s saying it’s one of the greatest draft classes of any team, honestly, in 20 years. Shador will determine that. So, if if he if he if he if Shadore ends up being a franchise quarterback, then that might be true. And I think he was saying it because he did throw for 360 or something, but he was saying like, you know, they didn’t, you know, if you’re not expecting like a fifth round pick to do that like and but you just talked about the tight end game that that that Harold Fannon is having in all time year. You talk about Carson Swessinger and leading being in the top 10 in tackles. We ain’t said nothing about Kushon Junkens and he had a big time play yesterday. You know why Shador, Can you put that back up what you just had up? Shador makes a difference in that because other it’s a it’s a defensive tackle, it’s a linebacker, it’s two running backs, but if you have a franchise quarterback in the fifth round that puts it over the top. You say these are not it’s not tackle receiver without going through the list of all the drafts by every team. My first inclination would be to say no. And first of all, you got to you got to see it for more than a year to know that for sure. But I agree if Shador ends up being like if yesterday becomes any kind of norm for him and he’s the guy then this oh boy this is beyond this will by the way if Shador does is the guy if he is will we still look back and say what were they thinking taking Mason uh taking uh uh Dylan Gabriel or we just forget about it because well I think we’re already able to say that yeah kind of what were they thinking taking Dylan Gabriel well but what we what I’m saying is if Shador is great then will we even care? No, we won’t care. But but they could have still taken an offensive lineman or a wide receiver or wide receiver. Right. That’s exactly but you know what like let’s end up being in the barn then that won’t matter. I’ve always said I I I would yearn for the day where we all come in here every single week and there’s no there’s no it’s a consensus that we know who the starting quarterback is and we know that he’s good. And and for I I always tell Bull this this you know as a Bengals guy right as a person who watches the Bengals when when the schedule is released he goes down that schedule and every single year he thinks they can win all these games. He think when Josh Allen is with the Bills every single year they look at the schedule they don’t play the schedule game. They just play the games because they know at least they got to do. We ain’t debating that. It’s about how you play that game. It doesn’t actually happen every year, but you feel that way when your team has that kind of quarterback. If we and to have the consensus that your fan base is since burning Kar, there has not been a consensus of this is our quarterback. We riding with this and and we know that we got an opportunity to compete. No, there was a couple years with Baker where it felt that way. It didn’t play out that way. There was there was Thank you. You you you are correct. There was because even the people that turned into people that were like kind of felt Baker wasn’t it. There was a point in time where I think 95% of the fan base, no matter what you were, white, black, indifferent, men, women, everybody was in 2018, 19, 20 after he won that Steelers game, I think everybody was, it was everybody was it was we were there. Yeah. Last thing on this, G. I just looked up a uh an article, the top 10 draft classes of the modern era. When is this article from, Mike? This was written by PFF two years ago. Okay. So, modern era, they go back to the 2020. This is what they ranked as the top five draft class. Modern era goes back to 2020 or uh 2000. Sorry. 2000. Okay. But man, that’s a really modern era. They rank the Saints and so I’m going to give you the names of some of these and Steve, you can pull Yeah, you already have it up. This is what these guys have to turn into down the road to reach this this category. in 2017. This is the number one ranked draft class since 2020 according to PFF. No, he keeps it’s 2000. 2000. I don’t know why. It’s a lot of zeros in that. Yeah. Marshon Latimore, Ryan Ramsey, Marcus Williams, Alvin Chimera, Alex Analone, and Trey Hendrickson all in the same draft. That’s That’s a dope class. There’s three really good home runs in that draft. Yeah. Uh, five players in that draft signed five-year extensions that made him the top three highest played player in their position. You can’t put this draft ahead of that yet. Not yet. Not yet. What year was that? 2017. In 2010 2010, the Seahawks Russell Okung, Earl Thomas, Golden Tate, and Cam Chancellor all in the same direction. Just four picks. That’s all they have. They have others, but those those were really good. That was really good. Three of those guys Hall of Famers, right? man. Or will be Earl Thomas for sure. Russell’s not a Hall of Famer. I don’t think Russell Okun’s a Hall of Famer. I thought he was a perennial Pro Bowler. He was good. Yeah. 2018 Ravens. Hayden Hurst, Lamar Jackson, Orlando Brown. Too fast, Mike. You’re going too fast. Hayden Hurst. Go ahead. Hayden Hurst. You can’t You can’t be all time when your first round picks Aiden Hurst. I mean, you got Lamar, but Hayden Hurst, Lamar, Orlando Brown Jr., Mark Andrews. Oh. Uh Deshawn Elliott, Bradley Boseman, and Zack Syler. And as we learned, Zack Syler has turned into one of the best defensive tackles in football. Yeah, that’s good. What’s funny about that one is it was excellent draft, but they blew their first pick. Yeah. Yep. 2012 Seahawks, Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, and two offensive linemen that played a bunch whose names probably don’t know, but two Russell Wilson the most maligned quarter quarterback of all time. of all time. I It’s wild. And last but not least, and I want to mention this one because I don’t think this draft class is all that incredible. And if this is what PFF ranks as number five, I do think the Browns draft class has a chance to be regarded incredibly. Nobody can be on the list until it’s at least three years. I think it’s got to be at least three years that we see it. Khalil Mack, Derek Carr, Gabe Jackson, TJ Carey, and Cleveland’s own Shelby Harris. Shout out to TJ Carrey. OU Bobcat. That’s that’s okay. This has every opportunity to be better than that. Uh coordinating producer Steve sents an interesting note. Um he can almost just be healthy and our guy Swisser is going to break the all-time rookie record for the most tackles in a season set by Patrick Willis at 136 back in 2007. That’s pretty he’s a game and a half away. I I mean Yeah. I mean at his average he’ll get that with two games to go. So he’ll get that in 15 games. It took Will of 16. So you So how where So is Juckkins on pace 4,000? I don’t think he is. I don’t know. I don’t know anymore cuz he began hitting his back field. He’s just shy. Well, he’s really t yesterday was hard to look at. I mean, he’s getting hit but he did make a game a play in the passing game. Um he’ll probably have over see the greatness. He’ll have over a thousand yards all purpose. I hope he Well, all purpose. All purpose, he’ll have it. But if I’d like to see him go over a thousand rushing, I want to see him to get the,000 rushing, but he actually is on pace to still go over a thousand. So I bet it’s pretty close though now, right? It’s just just over. So if he gets a,000, you said Harold Fannic can I mean he’s 900 almost 1,000. You see Schwessinger might be the defensive rookie of the year. So you got a chance for your rookie running back to get a thousand. Mhm. He’s on pace to do it. You’ve got a linebacker who’s on pace to set the all-time single season tackle records for uh rookies. And you’ve got a tight end who is has already broken the franchise record for most receiving yards as a rookie tight end. And we’ve got four full games to go and could go over 900 and have one of the top five rookie tight end seasons of all time. Right. Andrew, that’s a home run class. By the way, the whether it’s in the conversation or not is all about Shador. Yeah. because that’s the cherry on top. You could argue that as of today, the 2018 Browns draft is better than this year. Yeah. Well, that has great players in it because you had Baker, Denzel Ward, and Nick Chub. Now, the rest of that draft was trash, right? You got get three hits like that. Them is they them is a lot of Pro Bowls in that like now none of those guys are going to go to the Hall of Fame. No, but they were solid players. But Denzel Ward and Nick Chub are, you know, perennial Pro Bowl allp pro players and and obviously Baker is what Baker is. But if Shadore ends up being top 10 quarterback in the league, then this has a very good chance to be this will be that. Well, Andrew Barry might want to get his LinkedIn together cuz at that point, like I would argue the 2020 Bengals draft, even though it’s only two players, they’re already good, is better than that fifth one you mentioned because they got Burrow and and T. Higgins in that draft. They got Logan Wilson who they’ve now traded. We all know now now I they don’t they won’t be counted um because they didn’t dra I guess they didn’t draft them in the year but they got the draft capital. Them picks that the uh the Cowboys got from that Her Walker trade. They that’s the greatest pull of all time. They turned them picks into into a dynasty. Like they just never lost after that. How do you just It was That’s why up up until the uh Deshun Watson you could say it was the greatest trade of of all time. the the Deshun Watson trade for the Texans will never be considered for Houston the greatest trade of all time. But on the Cleveland end of it, it is the worst trade of all time. It is worse than Minnesota’s because what it’s done to our cap. Well, what look at the situation we’re in. We got lingering effects of that trade. We got one last thing we got to get to today, guys, before we wrap up. We’ll do that after a quick word from FanDuel. NFL Sundays move fast. One big play, suddenly everything feels different. That’s what makes live betting with FanDuel so exciting. You’re not just watching the game, you are reacting to it in real time. With FanDuel, you can place bets as the action unfolds. Every drive, every momentum swing, every highlight moment. So, if you want to be right in the middle of the action this season, visit fanuel.com. Place your live bets all season long. FanDuel, the games move fast and so can you. By the way, real quick, Mike, before you move on, real quick, I promise. Shoot. The Cowboys 1989 draft. Uh oh, only two Hall of Famers. Sorry, I thought it was three. So, go ahead. two Hall of Famers in one draft. That that qualifies. Go ahead. On Saturday night, we watched Ohio State lose the Big 10 championship to Indiana. Ryan Day kicked a field goal or attempted a field goal down three from the nine with about 2 minutes to go and a decision that I will frankly never understand. Jay, you’re the biggest Buckeye fan out here. What’ you make of the decision? And should Ohio State still be the favorites despite the fact they lost to Indiana in the Big 10 champion? Ohio State is the favorite. That’s the that’s that the facts of of Was you hot? Was there I I got calls. I gota tell you I wasn’t Some people was cool with it. Jonathan Wells was he I you know Jonathan but he was but he was levelheaded. Jonathan was like man you know they get paid too. They came out and they they Here’s what I say about that game. It was at the same time the most meaningless game I think I’ve ever watched. They flipped one and two. That’s it. That’s all they did of things in the grand scheme of things. And they lost the Big 10 title. That’s it. And and so last year they didn’t beat Michigan. They didn’t win the Big 10 championship, but what happened? They won the Natty. That was an exhibition game that we watched. And I it what I believe in, my takeaway from the game is Indiana’s a little better than I thought they were. And if they played 10 times on a neutral field, if they split five and five, they are a really well coached. I thought their defensive game plan and how how they went about confusing a rookie quarterback who had seen nothing like that. That’s why that game was won by Indiana. He just wasn’t sure of what he was looking at for much of the game. I thought he figured it out later in the game. I can’t wait for the rematch. I’m not I’m not certain we’re going to get it. But like, okay, if you start parsing out what did it matter? Nothing. One and two flipped. And if you look at three and four, three and four you could flip you. There’s no definitive, oh, they’re better than four. So, it doesn’t really matter. It I can’t wait to see how these college football playoffs take uh shape. My two biggest takeaways of the week. Um Notre Dame got jobbed. They they just I’m sorry if to try to make an argument that they’re not should they have gotten in over Alabama or Miami? Not Miami. No, I don’t like the fact that Tain and JMU are in. That’s my beef. That’s the rules though. Y Okay. I don’t I’m not arguing. No, but who would you have put them in over? Well, what I’m arguing against is the way you’re doing it, right? But would you have put them in if you were part of the I can make a strong argument that they should have been in over Alabama. I think that’s the only team you could have put Alabama lost their conference championship game by three touchdowns and I believe they lost three games. I don’t know why they didn’t boot Alabama instead of Notre Dame. I don’t either. Now, I have no sympathy. They lost their first two games of the season. Remember? And then after that, they just were boat racing teams. Well, we’ll do more of the playoff. Okay. I just wanted to get to the Ohio State Ohio State thing was like whatever. I didn’t mind that they kicked the field goal. I mean, it’s an 18 yard field goal. I go out there with a bad hip and make one. I I was watching the game with AJ, I actually told AJ, I know this is going to be really unpopular. I thought they should have kicked it prior when they missed on the fourth down when they did go for it when because I’m like, you’re down three. Tie the game. Yeah, just tie the game. Sure. I wouldn’t have been opposed to that. Let me tell you something. Kicking that field goal is the most gutless thing I’ve ever seen in my life. And that’s why Ryan Day is overrated as a coach. He remains overrated. Any coach in America would win with the talent he has. They have way better talent than every team in the country. Is that not a fact? I don’t know. No, not anymore. I I thought they would win by two scores. G Bush, do they have more talent than any team in the country? No, you said way more. Way more. Yes. Oh, stop. You did. You said way more. Yeah, they have way more talent than any team in the country. They don’t have Are you kidding me? Here’s Hey, watch this boy. Here’s the scary thing for Indiana. Ohio State played about the worst game they could possibly play and they still and they still barely lost. I still think Ohio State wins going to kill everybody. They will win it all. This is they are going to now for you got to think about this from now until whatever they play again. Two weeks. These dudes are going to be in a frenzy. It’s last year all over again. Indiana took the place of Michigan. But I’ll tell you this, hopefully it won’t be gutless again. How you kick a field goal? I can’t believe they’re off for the next month now. So that’s that’s like last year they had the home game against Tennessee and they kept rolling. This is scary. Well, they did have the conference championship week off. Yeah, but they having that game against Tennessee. I I mean we saw Didn’t all four teams that got the buy all lost last year. They’re going they’re not losing this year. Ryan Day is going to close ranks and he’s going to say now I don’t think Ryan Day is that great of a coach, but the one thing that is this is a layup for him. They’re gonna close ranks and say, “Listen, y’all, we lost the Big 10. We ain’t nobody. We didn’t win nothing this year. We didn’t get what we needed done.” And they gonna whip these dudes into a frenzy. They might be running two of these for a whole month. And they’re going to get back out here and they’re going to come around and say, “Well, that woke up Ohio State because they were here in their press clippings. They said this the best team we ever seen. We talked about the receiving court being better than professional teams and all that good stuff. Now you get an opportunity to bring them right back down to the ground and they’re going to be hungry, ready to play. I don’t Indiana, you do not want to see play Ohio State no more. That it’s going to be it’s it’s got one. But I hope I hope we get that as a rematch. And I bet you they won it. I hope we get it. I think Ohio State wants it. I think whoever if Indiana plays Texas Tech, I think they’re going to lose. Texas Tech is very good. They’re very Martino. Can you name one player on Texas? I can’t name any, but I know I know they I know they won their conference, Mike, didn’t they? Yeah, they beat BYU. Yeah, I know they kicked their ass, right? They did beat. I know their defense is excellent. Do I need to know players? I think Georgia could win it. I think I think Georgia could win it. They should have never lost that game. They would have won if their coach wasn’t gutless. That was a terrible. By the way, Indiana lost their one of their top receivers in the first quarter, first possession of the game. What do What did you guys think of Mendoza? Good. Not great. I liked him a lot. I would not trade up for him. uh a friend a friend of mine who works on my podcast who is a college football nerd. He goes to the combine. He does all this stuff. He goes, “Check look this. Look at this.” He I I go, “What don’t you like about Mendoza?” He told me like He goes, “When he gets under pressure, he drops his eyes.” And I I was looking for that specifically and did it a bunch of times. He completed some nice balls under pressure. I think he made some good throws that Ohio State just to I’ve never seen a defense as good as Ohio State. No, this was a a a there’s no NFL defense. I couldn’t disagree with you more that they’d go five and five if they played 10 games. I think they would. I think Ohio State would win eight and a half out of 10. Really? They’re way better. And so far So far we’ve seen him play once and Indiana’s 1 and0. Eight out of 10. I I will I will I will bet you I hope they play again cuz Ohio State beat them by 30. They ain’t beaten him by 30. Oh yeah, they’ll win. They’ll win if they play again. I texted Bull and Mike and said, “Wait till the Browns fire Kevin and hire Signetti. I would I wouldn’t put past Jimmy. Well, he’d like to coach what? He just signed a 10-year deal to see what the buyout is on him. I mean, Jimmy don’t care. Signetti will tell him I win. Google me. Hey, by the way, Jimmy will say, “Come on, by the way, I love at the end of the game, he was sitting up there. I think he was doing the postgame show. They asked him, “So, you know, Ohio State, you you shut you shut them down on defense. What are you running?” He said, “Let me tell you something. I ain’t I ain’t checked in on the defense in two years. I used to go in there and have them in for meetings in a little bit.” M I told my coach, I said, “No, do your thing, bro.” I stopped even going to the meeting. So, a good defend. I said, “You know what I did? I told him, you know how we won. Uh, we play hard, we tackle good, and uh, we get turnovers.” You know what I knew it was going to be a game? I’ve watched Indiana about four or five times this year, only once full games start to finish in the regular season, but I watched large portions of other games. And the one thing that I noticed right away, I told my son this when they were playing Ruters, I said, “When we used to play Indiana, you used to look at them and say, “If you just change the logos a little bit and squint, that’s that’s Miami of Ohio.” Mhm. Right. That’s the caliber of kids they have. They had, you know, smaller, undersized, some water bugs at the skills. But you look at them now, if you squint real close, that Indiana team, they almost looks like a Alabama roster. They’re thick, they’re big, they’re strong, they’re fast. They remind me of playing saving nations in high school. You just watch them and it be like, “Do these dudes ain’t making no mistakes. They in that gap. They hit hard. They run around fast. They confuse you. And they just do it 70s something snaps in a row and get back in a huddle.” Anybody take Ryan Day over Signetti as a coach? No, I would not. He Ryan Day has the best talent. So he does. But the the job Ryan Dade did last year, it it’s it’s still amazing to me how much hate he gets. Bull Bull loves to drop on him. Yeah. I wouldn’t fire him though. The coach the Well, how can you even make a argument for that? Yeah. But the the job that he did last year and where he took that team and where his personal life and professional life was after that Michigan game, I don’t know how many guys are capable of doing that with the best roster. What he did was at their absolute lowest moment. Yeah. convinced all of them, we’re going to win it all. We’re going to bounce back from this moment and we’re going to win it all. And even if you have the best talent, you still got to go out there and do it. They did it as underdogs in several of those games. And that they were underdogs in those games. They were underdogs. I have to remember after the Michigan loss, there was a lot of people looking at Ohio State like they were. Yeah. I don’t But the odds makers aren’t influenced by that. I don’t I don’t know what they were, but they were favored at home against Tennessee early. They were and I don’t remember Oregon and Texas. Mike, can you look that up to see if I think Ohio against Oregon and Texas last year? Uh, definitely Texas. I think Oregon they may have been an underdog. Remember Oregon beat them in the regular season last year. Yeah. Yeah. But the the oddsmakers don’t factor that in really. No. No. I know they don’t. Yeah. But what they do is they look at I look if you’d have told me last year after the Michigan game Ohio State was going to run the table, win it all. Yeah. Ohio State was favored by two and a half in the Oregon game. What about Texas? I would would have thought they would have been favored. their favorite every I didn’t think Notre Dame deserved to be in that championship game. All right, we got super chats, guys. Let’s wrap this up. Uh super chat today brought to us by Game Time. The World Cup’s coming back to North America for the first time since 1994. With 48 teams, it’s the biggest ever, but let’s be honest, getting tickets can be tough. That’s why the Game Time app is clutch. Finally giving fans a real advantage when it comes to snagging tickets. Take the guess work out of buying your World Cup tickets in every match, concert, or event with the Game Time app. Download the Game Time app, create an account, and use promo code lockdown NFL for $20 off your first purchase. Once again, download the app, make an account, and use code lockdown NFL for $20 off. Swipe, tap, ticket, and go. Download Game Time today. All right, guys. We have a record amount of super chats, so we’re going to read as many as we can in seven minutes. Ready, go. Uh, first one comes from Don’t 3S. In the first two of three games, Shador has broken two records in franchise history. The numbers don’t lie. Not saying names, but let’s hear about the Rams game still and how he’s not ready. We got plenty of time. Emos12 says, “Cleveland Cleveland’s garbage. Please get Shadore out of here. Cleveland just messes things up like you always have. Trade him to Vegas. You have Mendoza and the supercomput. You don’t have to read every one, man. At least the ones that they paid enough money that are worth reading.” Nope. No, no, no, no, no. We we we keeping him. I I appreciate y’all, man, but we going to keep him over here, man. Oh, I still stand by what I said. He’s the starter next year or go, but he’s playing well enough to be the starter. Mr. Hillsman says, quote, “It’s the Titans.” Well, it’s the Browns. How bad were the Browns yesterday? Funny. It’s always the other team. Browns just as bad. Third game, limited rats, burglary. Most media and staff don’t want you. Please trade Shador. No, we could. We going to stay right here. We are. 12 inaccuracies in that. But go ahead. Uh Kenneth Yavonowski says, “If this was Mendoza’s first three games, would you guys be saying the same things about him?” What are we saying? Everybody was complimentary. Triggered. Triggered. Everybody gave him an A, but me, I gave him a B+. Triggered. You’re thought we’d all given him a C minus. Phil Bowman says, “Come on, Chadorians, use your brains. It’s better. He went second cuz now there’s nobody that will say DG is better. We learned and now can improve. Quit crying.” Uh, Miss Bell says with three starts as his reps is no proof trad. No, no, no. We we we going we will keep him. Collins says, “Jay, you’re obviously higher on Mendoza than Sanders.” I agree with you. I think Mendoza would be your steady six of 10 win quarterback a year with no threat to ever win you a playoff game or a Super Bowl. Sanders seems to have the juice. I don’t know. Did you say you like Mendoza? I do like Mendoza. Yeah, he really impressed me Saturday night. I thought I thought I I mean, I’m not no hater. I I thought Mendoza did something. Everybody on that defense is going to play in the NFL. When when have we ever said that? I mean, Alabama, Georgia have had teams where eight or nine guys. Some of those plays in the running game, it looked like Indiana had a huge hole. It’ be a big game and boom, hit a brick wall. Oh, Reese is How good is Reese? How many first rounders do they have on defense? Arville Reese. Everybody on that defense is going to get drafted in the next few years. Hey, they got it’s an NFL defense. That’s why I said Friday, I I’m really going to be watching Mendoza on this scale. I don’t care what he’s done the rest of the year. He’s played Purdue and those are bad teams. This was a great defense with an NFL defensive coordinator. I don’t know. Steve Becker said Ryan Day getting wins over Purdue was impressive. So hopefully hopefully Mendoza’s got three more games against top quality games. I want to see it. Yeah, I want to see more. Gutter Jukebox says, “I know Shador was gonna ball. I put a three-leg parlay in for anu touchdown. Jerry touchdown. door to throw three touchdowns at plus 9310 turned $10 into 941. Thank goodness I didn’t put money. One last thing too on the Mendoza thing. I forgot to bring this up. It was the most impressive thing I saw from him Saturday night. The first pass of the game. He got deep leaded. I mean, he absolutely got I thought he was out for the game. I really did. He went to the sidelines for one play while his brother came in and handed it off. Yeah. He came back in the play and and still had a heavy rush and and was not faced by it. There were a couple times he threw in there, stood in there and threw the ball knowing he was going to get buckled. Let’s keep it 100. He played that game concussed. We all know that. Let let me tell you, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. Did you see his postgame press conf? I was listen I would listen if if there’s nothing more you talk about Sanders being interesting. Yeah. Uh this this young man he’s cutting WWE promo. He he’s a inter. Can you imagine him taking these first game postgame conversations? This man would sound like the honky talk man and macho man Randy Savage bro. Jimmy Fly snooker. I listen I’m like yo this dude is a matador. This is crazy. I liked it. He impressed the hell out of me. Couple more. Uh Cleveland takeover says I just heard Jay and Jason says Shadore needs to do this against the Bills B Bears and Steelers. The hate is so real. They’re saying he needs to have a Hall of Fame pace just to impress him. Have a blessed day. So instead, we just rubber snap them and say we’ve seen enough. I mean, I could not say more positive things than I say today about Shadore. I’m doing You’re never going to please certain. Go ahead. Keep going. Terrell Collins says, “Been a Browns fan for a long time. Been a huge Shadore fan also, but why do most older Browns fans have such losers mentalities like they’re afraid of having a franchise of afraid of a franchise having a team worth talking about aside from losing?” Yeah, that’s it. They want a losing team. What the losing? Clarity Speak says, “We day one Shador fans demand Cleveland stop slandering and scapegoating us to deflect away from their private dislike of Shador and the urban culture.” I couldn’t love that kid anymore. I love that kid. Amen. Urban after his postgame moose conference yesterday, I loved him even more. Hey, shout out to the culture. Listen, Shador had me wearing seven chains on today, six and glasses. Uh, through the fire podcast, the fact that all of these talking heads keep saying Shador has three touchdowns seems to be nuclear hate for 12. I promise you, I saw him get four. to say anything less is diabolical. Oh god. No, no, no, no, no. Let’s just clarify this. Throwing touchdowns, right? He threw for three touchdowns and he and he ran for one. And he ran for one. I mean, we’ve got a graphic that we called up a number of times during the show that said doesn’t matter. Facts don’t matter anymore. Four touchdowns. Facts don’t matter anymore. He threw for three touchdowns. And that’s a fact. Juy Juice says it’s terribly sad that Shador playing well triggers Jay and depresses Ball and the other guy so much. It’s an exercise in futility, gentlemen. That’s why I say the danger of oversight, overreacting. That’s where it is right there. Ironically, I just read the ones that paid $10 or more. Those are all the ones that paid $10. I think that’s a good I think that’s a good way to do it. The guys that are willing to drop that kind of coins, we’ll see you in overtime. Crazy thought. [Music]
00:00 UCSS Countdown (4 minutes) Shedeur Balls Out But Browns Lose!
04:44 Intro (Hosts & Credits) Like & Subscribe!
05:20 Starts: Adam The Bull, Jason Lloyd, G Bush, Jay Crawford & McNuggets!
09:52 What Was Most Impressive About Sheduer Sanders vs Ten?
15:53 Jay Crawford Has A Concern About 12!!
23:57 Adam The Bull Believed Shedeur Could Come Back vs Ten!
34:20 UCSS Hosts Grade Shedeur Sanders vs Ten!
44:20 Did Kevin Stefanski Cost The Browns The Win Going For 2?
53:00 Jay Crawford Explains How Analytics Can Be Wrong!
01:06:18 Daniel Oyefusi Joins UCSS To Talk Browns!
01:18:04 How Was The Titans Able To Carve Up The Browns Defense?
01:28:20 Rookie Report: Harold Fannin Jr & Schwesigner Are Becoming Stars!!!
01:37:30 Is This The Best Draft Class Ever?!
01:47:54 Is OSU Still The Favorite To Win It All After Losing To IU?
01:58:33 Live Superchat Reads Thank You For Every Donation!!!
02:02:00 Closing Thoughts & Superchats Thanks For Watching UCSS!!
Shedeur Sanders put up a monster stat line, but it wasn’t enough for the Cleveland Browns to beat the Tennessee Titans.
Is it Kevin Stefanski’s fault?
What happened to the Browns defense in this game?
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32 comments
It's a reason Jay off national shows
Jay woke up with black forces attitudel
Nope Shedeur Sanders’s core supporters are not setting him up failure. That narrative is defeated. We know what this kid can do since Jackson State, talk about Colorado where he played with no offense line. Him & Trev designed plays. Trev a Heisman & Shedeur Jonny Unitas Golden Arm Award. This kid is a clutch player. We know what we are supporting. It is Browns’s loss. Your hate your problem. 12 will be in a Superbowl in 2 years Atleast.
Jay, low-key has an unconscious bias towards Rich black athletes 😡
UCSS… Ultimate Crying Sports Show. With G Crybaby
13:38-:49-Thank you Jay. The Browns, LOST THE GAME…….AGAIN!!!!. Despite everything Shedeur did (and didn't do) yesterday, the fact still remains, THEY…..LOST!!! 😒
Shedeur got the team praying and believing they can win. I see them looking happy and dancing around, i didn't see that before.
Bull and G. Bush keeping it real😂.
He did that in college 😂 where yall been
Jay….. don't move the goal post now
I dont want to hear anything else about yesterdays game.. Sanders got a ton of yards against Tennessee in prevent so stop it. Kevin going for 2 twice and not getting it tells me the Browns were not trying to win that game.. The season is officially over, they will not win another game the rest of the way, Sanders will not get over 200 yards again this season, the teams on the schedule are playoff teams and they will be trying to win games, not playing around in prevent defenses, believe that.
What is Jay’s problem? Love how GBush keeps totally quiet til it’s his turn. Makin a point?
When Sanders is the #3 QB in Arizona next year, don’t cry Sanders Cult.
J=ZERO CREDITABILITY
Talking about his fans is crazy when you are not talking about the player and his play
I guess we know why Jay not on that level with an ESPN or big gig anywhere anymore 🤣 he just sounds ridiculous whenever he talks I'm not sure he even understands football
G bush stood business
Jay B., is a ALL AROUND… HATER😡🤬
Bull has a negative iQ he never adds anything worth while
Its not 12 fault that the Titans scored 31 he put up 29
WHEN WILL SHAUN KING BE ON!!!!!!!!!!
Adam the Bull & Jason has the most well-balanced and grounded analysis on Shedeur Sanders’s performance on Sunday
This is coming from someone who is rooting for Shedeur Sanders.
Imo, G.Bush & Jay are both in the extremes with their takes.
Either minimizing his progression as a QB or exaggerating it.
Both analysts are over-bearing to be very honest and Adam the Bull & Jason had the much needed poise in this discourse.
Tips:
Jay – Please give other analysts the room to express the opinions and drive their point home. It is probably subconscious but you are be over-bearing when you interject other analysts monologue to inject your ideas (which are honestly not bad ideas but they stunt the expression of other analyts and your ideas will probably bloom better when insert in your own monologue)
G.Bush: Your energy is an asset but you need to refine how it is delivered.
Often times, your energy -which expressed through humour, hyperbole and anecdotes are amazing in concept but are cringe and overbearing in execution.
Please take more time to meditate on your delivery and whether it connect with the audience as it makes all the difference and you can really do some exciting things with your energy & enthusiasm
Keep up the great work, fellas!
Jays take is not even a take it’s complete hate & nonsense you keep saying g is overreacting they were so happy w Dillon’s performance against Minnesota throwing 158 yards
Jay your takes suck✌🏽
Jay only got something good to say about sheduer when he see's the panel doesn't agree with him😂😂
Wait so yall don't consider yall selves fans?😂😂😂
Jay fasure wanted DG to start🤡🤡
A lot of yall telling on yourself that you don’t know football or played
Why are you worried about supporters. We talking about yesterday’s game. We talking about the game not the supporters. You are trying to deflect.
Shedeur is talking over get your jersey.
Y’all are talking about Shedeur stats to people who played more games then him. He played 3 games. Use the last 3 games and what those stats are. Stop trying to bring him down
Yall need to stop sending super chats! If I person send one vent they super chat should be read or not refund they super chat! This crazy work smh
If he does this against Chicago, Jay will then say, he has only done it twice, don't get excited. Then if he does it again he'll say, he has only done it 3 times, don't get excited… Even if he wins a Superbowl at some point he'll say, he only won one Superbowl, don't get excited… and on and on.