🔴 LIVE: Big Blue Kickoff Live 12/9 | New York Giants

🔴 LIVE: Big Blue Kickoff Live 12/9 | New York Giants

It’s time for a big blue kickoff live. Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn’t do it cuz you didn’t on giants.com. You know what I saw? New York Giant Pride and the Giants mobile app. 1714 is the final. One touchdown, we are world champions. Believe it and it will happen. Part of the Giants Podcast Network like a bunch of crazy dogs. Welcome to Tuesday’s edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live here on giants.com YouTube as well as the mobile app. He’s Jonathan Casillas. I’m Lance Meadow with you for the next 60 minutes. Multiple ways for you to interact with us here on the program. 201-939-4513 is the telephone number. You can also use #giants chat on social media. He is at jcas52. I’m at Lance Meadow. One word last name. It is presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York Giants. And we are broadcasting from the Giants podcast studio presented by Hackinack Meridian Health. Keep getting better. So, the Giants coming off the buy. Four games remaining in the regular season. We’ll get into what lies ahead for the Giants during this final stretch. Some things to look for, especially with a few opportunities coming up. And JC, that’s where I want to start because you at least you look at the upcoming schedule. Well, you’ve got a Commanders team that is going to be entering this weekend having dropped eight in a row and probably a good chance that Jaden Daniels won’t play after reagravating the elbow injury. And the Giants will likely see Marcus Mariota. Not that he is not a seasoned vet and hasn’t done a good job filling in for Daniels. They’re going to get a Raiders team that clearly has struggled immensely, a Vikings team in which JJ McCarthy has had his ups and downs, has been hurt in and out of the lineup, and then a Cowboys team that may or may not have something to play for in the final game of the season. So, at least in terms of the caliber of the competition before the Cowboys game, considering Dallas is the only team mathematically that still could potentially have something to play for, you know, this is a chance for the Giants to show something here to see whether or not they can finish, to see a little bit better of a balanced attack. And I’m not saying it’s going to mean the end all beall in terms of what lies ahead for next season, but I think there is a number of winnable games for Big Blue here down the stretch. Yeah, I I believe so, Lance. Um, the first half of the season, I I say the first quarter, first five or six games of the year, I use the word respond, and I think the Giants responded a lot, especially early in the season. How are they going to respond to, I think, the worst loss that they had in 2025, this last week, uh, against the Patriots. They were fully dismantled, right? Offense, defense, and special teams. Um, they were out physicalled and not just by the the statistics and the run game and stuff like that. You saw it, you heard it. Yeah. You know, um and the Giants have to respond. And I said this earlier. I was doing um the hangout earlier with with the crew. And I said this, this is the time of the year, especially in a season like this where you know you’re two and 11 and you’re not playing for anything, but this is where you come late buy, right? The late buys are not great. Late buy. So, you have a lot of stuff to look at and a lot of self-reflection. This is where you look at a mirror and hey, am I doing everything I can, not just for this organization, but am I doing enough for me to stay in the league? There’s already been multiple firings in this organization. Um, head coach, defensive coordinator, right, Coach Cox, like this is where you you should look at yourself. Hey, am I doing everything I can to not just play the best football for the Giants, but for myself? And if you do that during this time off that the Giants had and you come back with a refreshed energy, forget your record. Don’t worry about none of that stuff. Don’t worry about the playoffs. Don’t worry about bonuses and all of that. Just go out there and play good quality football. Put good film out there. Not just for the Giants, but for yourself. I wish that the guys I hope that the guys did that during the by-week so we can get a little bit better play because this Giants team still got athletes. Yes, some guys are banged up here and there, but this Giants team got athletes. This Giants team I think has a better roster than it has the last few years and it just hasn’t showed it. Right. Abdu Carter, he’s a guy that we’ve been talking about for discipline reasons why. And then when you look at the the play, it’s like I probably could understand it now that we understanding the discipline. This team needs to be more disciplined from the start of the game that the start of the season, excuse me, uh second game of the year, Dallas, right, where they had 21 call penalties. I think it was like 14 that they actually, you know, got combined, right? It was it was insane. Um and and this team needs to show that they’re making progress. I know it’s late in the year. I know they’re not playing for anything, but we have to see something right now, Lance. Like last week was horrible. That was every game I felt, you know, it was maybe a couple games San Fran and the second Eagles game where I felt like the Giants got outplayed and it wasn’t really a close game. That game they got their butts whooped. Oh, sure. And I didn’t feel like that this whole year. And then I saw that I’m like, “Okay, this is where you got to like look at yourself as an organization, as a team, and then individually as players, as coaches, because that’s embarrassing, you know, and these are all prideful men, you know, from the bottom all the way up to the top. And they have to respond. They have to figure out a way to respond. They had a by-week, got a chance to go ahead and selfcout coaches as well. see what you have, you know, done well this year because they have put out some good film defensively. I would like to see them to take a big step forward. Uh I think that’s been a huge disappointment. And let’s see what they can do against a reeling uh commanders team, right? They’re without their theirs. You know, he’s been hurting the Giants for a very long time, not just with this team. Um and then they might be at their second quarterback. So, I do see that, you know, there’s some things that the Giants could take advantage of uh come Sunday. Yeah, they’re not putting up a boatload of points mainly because of the injuries. Terry McLuren recently came back, but he had missed a stretch. I mean, if you look at this eightgame skid to your point, JC, they put up 13 points against the Dolphins. Okay. Went up slightly against the Broncos. That was a close game that they lost right at the end, but they were shut out by a Minnesota Vikings team that actually the Giants are going to see, but I mean Minnesota has been Dr. Jackekal and Mr. High. And I would say their defense probably played lights out for the first time we’ve seen this entire season. So very erratic squad that the Giants are going up against. They figured out ways to lose games too, just like Giants. Y absolutely eight run. I would wholeheartedly agree with your assessment that the Patriots game was the first time that the Giants were essentially non-competitive, right? Every game, no matter how it finished, you felt that they had a chance. They were in the thick of things. They were completely, as you mentioned, I mean, it was 30 at halftime. Yeah, they had 30 points at halftime and they basically pulled the pulled the foot off the pedal. Well, you had special team issues across the board. You gave up short fields to the Patriots. You gave up a special teams touchdown. So, no matter how you want to spin it, they could keep up with their physicality. That that’s what really jumped off the screen to me watching the game from home. I’m like, this team is is they’re they’re they’re like, “Yeah, we’re going to send a message to not just this this team that we have a lot of history with, right? preseason, Super Bowls, but we want to send a message to the the conference to the league that we are the best team in the league. That’s how they played. They played like that, you know, and and everybody talk about did the Giants, you know, catch up and and talentwise to other teams. Sometimes it it’s not about talent, it’s about mentality. It’s about mentality and approach that you take and and the the approach that the Patriots take. I mean, when you think about the Giants from back in the day, back in the 80s, back in the 90s, Yeah. It’s kind of taking that same type of approach and that’s what’s kind of been missing here in New York is that approach, that physical mentality is like no matter what the score is, you’re going to know that we we was in a fight today, you know, and we’re going to have the bruises to prove it to you. Well, it’s that old school flavor that you’re talking about in terms of comparison to the 80s Giants. And I think there’s a brand of football, which is what you were getting at, that New England plays, that differentiates themselves, JC, and you know that very well from being within the organization that is cut from a different cloth. And I think it feeds off of Rael and him being a former player and how he played and how he approached the game. Because I’ll give you an example and and this goes back to a conversation I was having on BBKO last week relating to the hits that Dart took, you know, and that fine line about do you step out two yards earlier to avoid the hit last night. I don’t know how much we saw maybe of the Eagles Chargers, but there were times where Herbert was running out of play. And I know Herbert’s playing with the broken left hand, but Philly let him run out of play. And that was what I was pointing out. I’m not saying that guys, and you know this from being a former defensive player, that they don’t have the mentality, hey, if a quarterback’s running, I’m going to try to take a hit. There’s a brand and uh effort that New England shows that I don’t think is duplicated which was my point JC from the 31 other teams meaning they stick out a lot more than even a Philadelphia team with Vic Fangio at the controls which you know is physically defensive minded but there’s some other teams that they’ll let the quarterback run out of play because they don’t want to risk a penalty whereas New England’s going to walk that fine line. Yeah. And they and they did a doubt that wasn’t the only hit. It wasn’t the only hit from that linebacker as well, right? Ellis. Um and and look, I think that’s a little self-inflicted with Dart, you know. No, no doubt. But I’m not talking about the approach of the team is different is what I was saying. I I agree with you, but I I think and and I want to I want to talk about that a little bit because I I do think that Dart has he’s not taking advantage of the what they credit to quarterbacks. they they have a lot of, you know, protections for the quarterback and he’s not using it, you know, and and the reason why I say that because yes, he becomes a runner when he breaks the line of scrimmage and he’s run the football, design runs, blah blah blah blah, all that stuff. But once you show that your willingness to run out of bounds, your willingness to just, you know, go away from contact, your willingness to slide early on, now it puts you at the ultimate advantage because defenders, they do not want to get penalized. And if you’ve shown that time after time you’re making the smart play, which is not taking on unnecessary hits because sometimes you you you know, third and one, you know, crucial point of the game, right? And you need to fight for the first circumstance. You have no choice. And if you look at Momes, Mahomes has been running guys over. You know why? Because he’s showed the willingness to run out of bounds so many times and everybody eases up as they get to him because they don’t want to hit him when he slides. Because you could get ejected if you hit him the wrong way. you can, you know, definitely going to get penalized. You’re going to get fined. There’s so many different things. Dart has never gave people that. He didn’t give that. Oh, if I hit him, I’m gonna come out. No, it’s like he’s going to allow me to hit him because he thinks he’s tough. And he is tough. I’m not He is a tough guy, but there is rules to help you play the quarterback position. And I just feel like he didn’t take advantage of them early enough. And that’s why you saw the hit right on the fine edge because he knew he can get there because he didn’t he knew that Jackson Dart was stepping out. So I just feel like and and I and I just wanted to talk about that because I really haven’t spoken about that. Sure. No, I’m glad he did. We haven’t spoken in I don’t know how long. A year. It’s been a while since we’ve done a show. Correct. Yeah. So this is refreshing. I wanted to put out my perspective on that because he can get that back because now he if he goes to to slide late if he goes to go out of bounds a little late and he does get out of bounds, they’re going to take that extra step and hit him. So hopefully he doesn’t take a shot like that again, but he can cause penalties now because he showed him the the latter. He showed him things that you’re not really supposed to see from a quarterback. You you want a quarterback to protect yourself, but he showed that he doesn’t do that all the time. So, he might get a be able to create a penalty off of that now because he kind of put that out there, right? I love his mentality though, you know, like I do love his mentality. I I love it and I think people feed off of it. Just like when Scottoo was healthy for the Giants, the Giants need more guys like that, right? Live on the edge, play on the edge. But the last statement of that, the last sentence of that statement is never hurt this team. I love the way he plays on the edge. I love the way he lives on the edge. But don’t hurt the team. Don’t hurt the team by getting yourself hit like that. And I want everybody to play like that. Play feisty. That’s what the Patriots did. The Patriots played right on the edge. It was some penalties there. Sure. But they brought it every play. That’s the way you football should be played. I I believe the Giants have to take a similar approach to that in this division with the Eagles, the Cowboys, and the Commanders. They all have their quarterbacks in place. They all have special talent at the wide receiver position. They all have guys on defense. They all have coaches in position. The Giants got to catch up. Not just when we talk about in the in the locker room, but as a whole culture in the organization. That’s where I think the Giants got to make the next jump. And it takes Jackson Dart, Dexter Lawrence, all of the young leaders, the older leaders to go ahead establish what is this Giants, what is Giants Nation? What is Giants style? What is what is it? You know, and and that hasn’t been established. Interestingly, and I’m glad we delved into a little bit more on this dart perspective because I don’t know if you heard his comments, JC, after the game, but he was defending that, you know, he’s been playing like this since high school and college and that this is his brand, so he’s rolling it over. But you I was curious your perspective because as somebody that also played on the high school and the college level, there’s a distinct difference between the competition you’re seeing there and maybe what guys let you get away with versus going up against Ellis or the Patriots on the NFL level. So I think there’s still that room for him to make an adjustment, but I think you brought up a good point. He’s still in that middle ground where there’s times that for example the Landry play, he did give himself up, right? I mean, Landry I thought jumped over, but then there’s the other play where you’re roaming up the sideline and you think, “Okay, I got some wiggle room here and all of a sudden Ellis, to your point, saying, “No, if he’s not going to go over out of play, I’m going to hustle over. I’m going to get a hit on him.” So, it’s sort of picking and choosing and knowing to your point down in distance where you are in the game so that you don’t put yourself in a position where you’re now not available. And I think that’s what he’s going to have to learn because you brought up the division. Well, Jayen Daniels just reinjured the elbow injury. So, his status is very much up in the air. Not to get off topic, but a guy that we’re very familiar with and it was a shame to see it happen. Daniel Jones just tore his Achilles. And here’s another season. Right now, he was playing with a broken fibula and I’m sure there may be some connection. Another tough guy. Correct. We all love Daniel and his Nobody’s questioning his toughness, but at the end of the day, you don’t get brownie points for being a tough guy. You get brownie points for being available in the game and the narrative. And it’s really not a narrative. There’s validity behind it. DJ, outside of one full season where they made the playoffs, the Giants, he has missed games. So Dart doesn’t want to go down that road where toughness is great, physicality is great, making gamechanging plays, but every year there’s three to four games that he may not be available. And that’s I think the concern here, which goes under the umbrella of what we’re talking about, things to watch in the final four games. How does he look to extend plays and what is his perspective and approach to that? You you get when you’re in the league, especially a younger guy, you get baptized, right? He got that was his baptism by fire very quickly. That was his baptism. It happened a little later uh in this in this season. Um and and I think he has learned I think he’s learned from the the hits away from the sideline, right? You know, uh against the Chicago Bears, right? He has slid even in the game last week. He slid multiple times. Um, and he he will learn. My my thing is with him, it it’s all right. Let’s say he was throwing interceptions, right? And he has the same like I’ve been playing this way in college and in high school, but because you’re throwing interceptions in the league, you probably got to figure out what you have to change to not throw interceptions. You know what I’m saying? So, his numbers look great, right? He he got what 11 passing touchdowns, three interceptions, seven or eight rushing touchdowns, which is that’s really good. So, you don’t really see the the the hits on paper, you know. So, it’s it’s not really because the numbers look good to your because the numbers look good, but that’s a part of the game as well, taking the hits. So, it’s like, okay, you might have took some of those hits and they weren’t as hard as Ellis last week. I’ve never seen him like I haven’t seen too many people get hit like that. Well, he flew quarterback position. Dark took flight. Okay. And he’s not Superman, I’ll tell you. So, what I do know in the NFL, people talk about the tackling in the NFL, and that might be true. It might not be as great as it used to be, right? But everybody can hit, Lance. Everybody, they’ve been running and hitting since they were children, and and they would love to hit a quarterback like that. So, my my thing, it was just a little immature for him to say that because I heard the the press conference after the game, and I was like, “Bro, you like if I kept on playing the same way I played, I had an early neck injury in my career. I wouldn’t never played nine years. I had to change the way I played because of my health. And he was in the tent what, four or five times this year already before he actually got the concussion. So, it’s like, bro, you have to learn from not just the X’s and O’s and the speed of the game and all that, but also from the physicality of the game. It’s a it’s an increase the skill level, the uh the the the intelligence level, and also the physicality. And you have to you have to put that in as a factor at things that you have to improve on when you move to the next level. And we’re not asking you to be a punk. We’re not asking you to do none of that. Just be smarter as you’re doing in the X’s and O’s, as you’re doing in route progression, as you’re doing as the the uh the situational football. You’re being smart in all of those things. You should be smart in the physicality of the game as well. It reminds me, and I’m going to go back into the archives. There was a pre-season game several years back between the Jets and the Giants. And Rex Ryan was the head coach of the Jets. He kept Mark Sanchez in the game, if you recall this, behind like third and fourth string offensive lineman, and you had Giants players trying to fight for roster spots, right? So, if you’re fighting for, right, you’re going to bring it, right? You’re treating this like it’s the Super Bowl. Mark got hurt. Gino Smith then became the starter. The reason I’m bringing that up is Dart, interestingly, we talked about, okay, next three opponents mathematically pretty much out of it. But to your point, guys are fighting to stay in the league forever. Like they’re trying to send their careers. Yeah. So it’s not just, well, these guys are not just going through the motions, right? Guys are going out and they’re wanting to maybe take your head off, especially if you’re out in the open field. I actually would argue I don’t want to say that it’s anywhere near the litmus test of the Patriots, but maybe a little bit more interesting and dangerous who you’re going up against the next 3 weeks because these teams are playing guys that also they’re evaluating and if you know you’re being put under the microscope and you don’t have a guarantee to be on the roster next year or you got to put film out for everybody else, there’s a little bit more pep in your step, right? No matter who you’re going up against, whether for your career without a doubt. So that’s maybe more of a reason why he needs to be a little bit more cautious in his approach because a lot of people would look at, oh, these teams, they’ve got nothing to play for. No, but the individuals have everything at stake in these next three games. And that’s where I think we’re going to learn a lot about Dart. We’re going to also learn about a lot of the individuals on this team because even though the Giants are a relatively young team, a lot of these guys have their careers ahead of them. So there is something to be said about if you’re going to be able to have the luxury to play around Dart for the next few season. And what I mean is some of these offensive linemen that are at least under contract. Juan Del Robinson I know is due for a contract. But there is something to be said about all right this group you would hope is going to stay together moving forward. Yeah. At least from a chemistry standpoint. And I’m not saying that the offense is going to be the same or the schematics, but the rapport you build in these next four games maybe means a little bit of something in terms of what you could carry over to the off season as well as next training camp because at the end of the day, Dart still has a tiny sample size, JC, of him being on the field and working with a lot of this personnel. So, you know, maybe that could help. not huge, but bits and pieces at least in terms of what we’re going to see in the final four games and, you know, guys making a statement to maybe give the front office a reason to evaluate how they play and whether or not they can fit into the puzzle here moving forward because I still think there’s plenty of roster spots up for Gregs, especially based on the two and 11 mark. Yeah. Everything’s being analyzed right now. Yeah. you know, when when you have moves like that, you know, the firing of Dball, firing of um Shane Bowen, you like this is this is what that means, you know, like everything is being evaluated. Shane all the way down, kicker, like everybody’s being evaluated. Dexter Lawrence. I know people don’t think that he may go anywhere, but Dexter Lawrence is being evaluated. You know, like he they’re they’re they want to see if these people on this roster and these coaches on this staff are going to be in the New York Giants in the next years to come. Um there’s a lot of contracts out there. Um, and and I do think, look, there there are some vital pieces that the Giants need to keep, of course, but then there might be pieces that have been here for a while that may need to go elsewhere, not just for the Giants, but for them, you know, and for their careers because maybe they’ve just got everything they could here at at New York, you know, and it it’s it’s tough. I play for four different teams, you know. I ended here with the New York Giants and I cherished every stop that, you know, I made. And you know, for me to end my career here, this is one of the greatest organizations. So, the last time I was in the locker room, I spoke to Air Smith Marcett and I told him, I was like, you know, cuz he wasn’t he hasn’t really been active and not been playing. And I’m like, bro, just come in here with a grateful attitude every single day, bro. Because you never know the next job, who’s going to be working there, what coach is going to be there, you know? So, put your best step forward, not just on Sundays because you’re not playing every single day because you should be grateful that you’re in the NFL. should be grateful that you get to do what you love for work. You may not be happy where you’re at right now, but don’t show that when you walk into the building, you know, show the happy attitude because you don’t know where these coaches are going. And now this is before any any firings happened or anything like that. I played with Spags in 2012, right, in New Orleans. We were the worst defense in the league. I got benched for Jonathan Vuma. He was suspended and I got hurt and then I never played on defense ever again. So that year, Spags apologized to me after the year and I was like, “Yeah, like whatever.” Like, but I played hard every day. I came to work with a smile on my face. I never changed my demeanor, right? Fast forward four years later, he brings me here to New York, you know, and and and I’m sitting there like, “Oh, the Giants are offering me a nice contract.” I’m like, “Where they come from?” And he was like, “Oh, Spags is there.” Oh, connection. But because I played the game a certain way, even when I was unhappy, I was very upset that I didn’t play, you know, and but I didn’t show it, you know, and I play like a professional. These Giants have to do that because you can recover from two and four early in the season. You had the team to do it. you you were you showed that you can take down top teams in the NFL early in the season, but you have to be able to play like that regardless of your record, regardless of what happened the week before, regardless what happened in your house and with your personal problems. And I just think that the Giants just haven’t got the full potential from this roster that I think is one of the best rosters we’ve seen from the New York Giants since we’ve been working together. For sure, Lance. Well, listen, we’ve seen fair share of ups and downs and I think you know this is one of the first seasons in a while where the team has been consistently competitive. Whether or not they finished again is a different story, but they’ve been in just about every game. Can’t say that about previous seasons. A lot of games that just got out of control early on and you knew regardless of what happens in the second half, they do not have a legitimate chance to get back into the thick of things. one player. Interestingly, you piqued my interest in terms of you sharing your experience and your tie into Spags, which is another example of how a small world the NFL is. But there’s an example this year of a guy they brought back, Isaiah Hajins. Oh, man. Right. Hajins was on the Steelers practice squad, but he had ties, right, to members of the organization and CFKA. So, they had a need, right, to bring in a wide receiver and because of the impression he made. Now, Hajins played a lot, of course, the first time he was there and helped them in that playoff run in O2, but now all of a sudden, he could go from the practice squad to a regular roster and immediately contribute and he also has familiarity with the scheme. I mean, that was a golden opportunity. I’m sure if you ask Isaiah Hajins, what would you rather do? Would you rather be with a team that has a chance to get to the playoffs and be on the practice squad or actually play and prove your worth to get back on a 53man roster? I mean, I can’t speak for him, but I I think it’s stating the obvious, right? Unless it’s like week 17 or something like that. Correct. Yeah. You know, and he’s been in this area, so, you know, uprooting himself and I think he understands being with a few different teams. That’s life in the NFL as you can attest to. But that’s what I that’s what I’m I was talking about him like not specifically, but like I feel like he embodied what I was just talking about, right? Like he’s a guy that has been on practice squads and taken off practice squads. The two times the Giants got him was off of somebody else’s practice squad. Yeah. And he came in ready both times, you know. And you got to have that mentality because you never know. You got to have that Jameus Winston mentality, right? Jamus says they they said um what they say um they said uh oh uh how was it when you were waiting? He was like I wasn’t waiting, I was preparing. Like I love everything. I love everything he says. He’s extremely entertaining. He’s so good. But the mentality he has as a backup, he’s a backup. He was third string. Yeah. Never wavered in his mentality. And he was ready. He came in and he played good football. Right. He showed us he gave us the Jameus Winston experience. Right. He threw some amazing passes and some pass was like, “Oh, wait. What you doing?” Right. Right. But that’s Jameus Winston. He is consistent in who he is as a player. You know why? Because he’s consistent in who he is as a man. when you’re that way off the field, it’s so easy to do it on the field because you do everything how you do everything, right? Doesn’t put on a facade or something like that. That’s just how he is, you know? And and I just feel like sometimes, you know, on teams some guys might do that. They might act accordly or do things differently. And it’s like, no, bro, you’re a professional. If you’re doing anything differently, you’re doing it differently here, but to a higher level because you’re a pro, right? Just like you’re a professional in anything, right? If you go to a doctor and and the doctor is not on time or the doctor, you know, messes up or like you’re going to be like, “Bro, what what you know, like you’re a professional, act like a professional.” And I’m not talking about Abdul Carter. I’m talking about the whole team, right? Javon Holland hitting the ball out somebody hands like, “Bro, what are you doing?” You know what I mean? Like those type of things, the little things like that, they add up. They add up. Especially when it comes to close games in the fourth quarter. It’s all the little details that matter. this team, this team has to grow grow up a little bit more. I think they have some great leaders. I think there’s some guys right now on this team that might not want to be here or might not want to play for this regime. I don’t know what it is exactly, but the Giants, they I just felt like, man, we’ve seen them grow the roster to the point where it’s like they are competitive with the better teams in the NFL, but there’s other things that outly that the new head coach that comes in, that’s got to be his number one priority. getting all of the other stuff, the X stuff, the stuff that you don’t really talk about. When you talk about a locker room, when you talk about a roster, when you talk about putting a great team together, those little things that you don’t speak about, those are the things that he has to master when it comes to the Giants because that could also have a cumulative effect to your point on the entire team, not necessarily a few individuals. All right, we’re going to open up the phone lines as we move forward here. Lance Meadow, Jonathan Cass with you here. Tuesday’s edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live. It is presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York Giants. 2019-4513 is the telephone number. We go to Rob in Connecticut with us here on BBKL. What’s happening, Rob? Lance JC, how’s it going? Doing well. What’s on your mind? Well, uh, two things actually. Thanks for taking my call. Number one, uh, as far as the head coaching search, do you think it’s safe to say that the Mike Hafka era is gonna be behind us and we’re gonna maybe get anybody besides Arthur Smith and who do you think that’ll be and then I have another question after that one? Well, why don’t you ask the second question, then we can tackle everything at once. Okay. Yeah, that works for me. All right. Well, you you guys know best. Uh, do you think we’ll use any draft capital toward and I have to say a kicker [Laughter] All right, Rob. I was literally talking about that two days ago. I was like, Giants should draft the kicker. I mean, it’s just been so inconsistent at that position for such a long time. You know, you had Graham Gnau, who I love Graham Gnó, like first off, he’s my draft class. So, you know, like, shout out to all of the 2009 draft class, even even the undrafted guys like myself. Um, so I love him, but he’s been very inconsistent, you know, especially when the injuries started piling up in the last Well, the injuries I think is the biggest concern of all. Can’t stay healthy and then and then what we saw last week. Um, why not, you know, like the points are so important. I mean, it’s everything that’s everything in all sports. Points, that’s everything in all sports. So, if you can get a guy laid in the draft that, you know, is going to be the kicker for the next 15 years for New York Giants because he’s that good, I don’t know. college, you know, level kickers. So, but I I I was literally talking about that the other day and I was like, why not draft a kicker late in the draft to secure that spot because it’s been when you look at the season’s end of the last I don’t even know how long it’s been since we looked and like did we have a good kick kicking season more times has been no than yes. So, I I don’t mind it. Yeah, I don’t think there’s any risk in them using draft capital. I mean, certainly I wouldn’t move up tremendously to grab a kicker. I wouldn’t move up at all actually. I mean, you want to use a late round pick, a sixth or a seventh, that’s fine. The other option is, and I haven’t looked at free agency cuz I’m still very much invested in the season. I don’t want to rush my life, but there could be a veteran kicker JC on the free agent market that they could very well entertain. Uh, you brought up Young Way Coup and in fairness to him, there was a snap issue in terms of it not being handled by Gillan as to why he all of a sudden held up. But the bottom line is your point is well taken. It has been an area and a facet of this team that you don’t go in every single week saying everything’s going to go smooth and it’s a guarantee and that’s not that’s listen you know this from being a special team player because first of all I mean from you mentioned the seasons we’ve worked together there was one year and this may have actually actually this was one of the years you were with the Giants how many games did you wind up losing because of a game winning field goal not to right the Patriots game right here at Metife Stadium. So, you know, once again, no personal issues. I’m not trying to rub it in. Games are close, man. All points matter, bro. Without a doubt. So, yeah, the question about the kicker is a valid one, and if they want to address it either through free agency, the draft, I think that’s warranted. As far as the evaluation of Mike Kfka for the permanent role as the head coach, well, I mean, Joe Shane had his press conference right before the by-week and made it clear that they will continue to evaluate him and that he will get a shot at an interview. And if you remember, Spags, you brought him up. Spags got an interview too when he was an interim coach. It’s normal that they’re going to give the interim. First of all, even if you don’t hire the coach, I would say I’d want to hear what he saw firsthand, right behind closed doors. I know that the coach and the GM are talking right now. Nobody knows more than him right now, without a doubt. So there’s value in having a conversation with KFKA to see what worked, what didn’t, what he would tweak, and also he’s been here with the team for several years. So his lens I think is important to get that perspective from throughout the course of that interview. But just like we’re talking about the players, the next four games and how they go up against, remember, teams that mathematically are not juggernauts, have issues is going to also tell an awful lot about his realistic shot and what type of a statement. As far as candidates, it’s wide open at this point. I mean, they can look at anybody, but remember, you know, based on the playoff schedule, too. That’s going to impact when and who they could talk to because of some of the tweaks and rules they made. Anyone who’s a free agent, the Giants are going to be free to speak to once the season ends, but anyone who is currently on a coaching staff, there’s going to be some challenges because they’re going to be involved in their own playoff run. So, you have to keep that in mind as well. And the Giants are an appealing job. You know, this is appealing job here. This is, you know, you have a quarterback, a quarterback for the future, you know, um, you got a talented stable of running backs, you know, a young guy that is a fork folklore hero, right, in Cam Scataboo. Uh, you got a number one receiver, you got a a top tier left tackle and a solid O line. This, this line has, I think, progressed this year. One of the bright spots that’s been very consistent on offense. Now, Illumin is going to be a free agent just for context purposes. But still, if you can keep those two guys together, too, if I’m not mistaken, right? Um, yeah. And then on defense, right, you got so many different pieces. I do think we need a corner. I think that’s something that need But forget all the details and stuff like that, but I just think that coaches would want to come to New York. Sure. Well, and also the market, too. Yeah. The New York market don’t get any bigger than this. History, you know, this is a great organization. Why is it a great organization? Not because what they’ve been putting on the field the last couple years because of the history, right? And then from the top all the way down, this is run by great people, right? Everybody in this building is is a great person. Like I’ I’ve come in here all the time and I speak to everyone. This is a gradea organization. I’ve been around. I’m not going to talk about the other organizations, but I know the difference, right? And this is a gradea organization. So, I don’t think we’re the only ones that know that, though. You know, I think these coaches understand that and then they look at it like, “Hey, man. This roster is not that bad either. They got a quarterback for the future that we got cheap for the next few years, right? You got a left tackle. You You got pieces that makes this job a real appealing job. So, I just hope that the process is done correctly. You pick the right coach and we don’t pick another coach for like 20 years. Well, listen, the good teams, the consistent ones, I don’t need to tell you this, preach stability. You know, everybody, not to get off topic, but I laugh. You know, there’s been a lot of articles written about Mike Tomlin and whether or not the Steelers should move on. It’s cyclical every year. Yeah. What does he do? He keeps the team in the fold. They won a big game against Baltimore the other day. They’re now in position to win a division title again. So, I mean, what would you rather have, JC? Would you rather be in it every single year, have a legitimate shot, or, you know, every five or six years, maybe be competitive? I don’t know. Let me get back to you on that front. It’s just, it’s laughable. Five coaches since what? Coughlin. Coughlin. There was five. There’s five total if I’m not mistaken given the new ones coming up, right? You’re talking about since Coughlin came in. Yeah. Because Well, it’s seven if you include the two interims. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. I didn’t even think about the interims. Yeah. But like what is that? Yeah. Whereas I thought you were bringing up in comparison Mike Tomlin, you need one hand to talk about the last 40, 50 years of the GMs and their head coaches. That’s what the point for sure. No, no, no. I I I was just talking about what’s been here. what what’s happened since the Giants and it’s been a revolving door. Yeah. And and and John, you know, he he’s trying to do John Mar he’s trying to do the best for the team. Like people’s like, “Oh, what’s John doing?” You know, I hear everything just like you too, Lance, right? We hear everything that they’re saying. And I’m like, “He’s trying to do the best.” And the thing is, he doesn’t call plays. He He doesn’t pick the the roster, right? He picks those guys based on his decisions and all of that. Y and and I’m They failed, you know? Like that’s that’s just what it is. And and I say that from the record, right? The Giants have one of the worst records if not the worst record since 2022 for sure and maybe since 2017. Yeah. No, you could go back certainly in terms of the volume. I don’t know the exact cut off of the year, but I mean bottom three for sure like 100%. Which is that’s bad without a doubt. I mean look, take away 16 and 22. You don’t have any playoff appearances. I mean we know that. And I mean, even in 22, and I think the diehard Giants fans will acknowledge that there are so many games, and granted, you talked about how you walked that fine line just about every game, but we could be talking about plenty of those games that could have went the opposite way. No, I’m not. Give them give them they playoff. Well, I can’t listen. No matter how powerful you may think I am, I have no influence in terms of going back in the past. I don’t have Marvel heroics to do that and go back in my time machine. But in all seriousness, the point is though because you were going back to the Patriots. We were talking earlier in the show, there’s a brand of football, a dominance. You know, it’s been quite some time since we can say that being synonymous with the Giants where every week you go in and teams are a little bit concerned about what they’re going up against, right? I mean, you know that as a former player, you know, every week you look at who you’re playing and you go in and there’s a different feel. It’s not to say you’re taking anyone for granted, but because of how they play and the coaching staff and what they’ve instilled in their players. You play New England one week and then you play the Dolphins the next week. If we use the AFC East as an example, I I think there’s a different approach, right, in terms of whether or not you got to put your pads on extra time. Yeah. And then you could even look at a team like Houston who record doesn’t really show how good they really are, right? They’ve won the last few weeks, but they didn’t start out good. But you watch them on TV the last couple times, they’re like the best team in the league. Their defense definitely is without a doubt. And who does that come from? Demo Ryan player and a linebacker. And they form something down there, right? It’s not just one player getting all the sacks, right? It’s not just one player on offense dominating the game. No, it’s a collective effort. And I think Will Anderson shows up every single game as well, right? Just a little bit. But it’s a culture that they’ve built and culture is only a sustained thing. It’s not a one-year thing, right? The Giants went were really good, right? A couple years ago, went to the playoffs and beat a, you know, a decent Minnesota team and since then, like you you can’t build on nothing that doesn’t exist, you know, like you there’s culture in in in Pittsburgh because Tomlin’s been there for so long. You understand what you’re getting yourself into. Now, can it run its course? Yes, that can happen, too. But there hasn’t been anything established here since Coughlin. And that was a long time ago, Lance. Well, and also, it’s hard to establish what you’re talking about when you’re only in the job for two years. And then if you get two years. Yeah. And then another guy comes in and replaces you, right? I mean, Shurmer Judge, even before that, Makadoo, we could go through the laundry. We even have time, you know, cuz like Dayball got time. And let’s not get it twisted. Day ball got time because he won his first year and and and he got four years because the other guys before that the max they were getting was two. Makadoo got fired in the second second year in mid midway through the year. Yeah. He didn’t get to you know so it’s like and he took the team to the playoffs in 16. Yes he did. Whereas Dable took him in 22 and 23 went the opposite way. And it’s Listen, everybody’s not guaranteed the same pathway. I think that’s well documented. We know that. But I mean it it just goes back to it’s very hard to accomplish what you’re calling for. If there’s not patience being preached has to be patience. Yeah. Then you could really throw that out the window. I mean we could talk about these nice things. Continuity, stability. It’s so nice. We could pet each other and you know rainbows and lollipops. But yeah, there you go. We’ll hold hands too while we do the remaind of the show. But in all seriousness, the reality is you’re not going to scratch the surface of any of that if it’s a revolving door every two years, new coach, new GM, whatever it may be. So, you can’t even approach those terms and those words until you can say, “We’re going to give this guy the power to run things and we’re going to stick with him.” And that has not been a luxury that the Giants have been able to subscribe to. Let’s head back to the phone lines. We got Jason in New Haven with us here on BBK. What’s happening, Jason? Hey, Lance and Jonathan, how you guys doing today? Doing well. What’s on your mind? Good, man. Uh, just two points. Um, you two had already kind of stole my title, what I want to talk about, but just for the sake of the conversation. Um, you guys were earlier were talking about, you know, the whole, um, Jackson Dark getting out of bounds, protecting yourself as a quarterback, and I honestly agree with you guys on that, you know. Um, Jonathan, I always have respect for those who made it to the top of the top level and any profession or any sport, just any profession, right? So, whatever your input is, and Lance, you’ve covered the the league for years, you know, I’m going to take it with a grain of salt. Um, I only made it to college, but college ball, but I will say this that I like about Dart. while he has taken some lessons especially the Ellis hit last week or two weeks ago. What I like about him to me along with Scataboo, those two in my opinion, how I see it from afar, those two to me are culture setters. And that’s why that’s the reason I’ll say this is for some reason, and I’m not in I’m not in the building like you two are every day, but for some reason this losing kind of attitude I feel is kind of taking a I don’t want to say taking a hold. I don’t want to sound too too um out the loop, but I think those two are trying to change change the the culture, right? And while Dart is a quarterback and this isn’t Old Miss in the SEC, I like the mentality that he’s showing. Now, as he gets older, our hope is that he’s becoming more smarter in the way he’s taking it, sliding, getting out of bounds quicker. Of course, that’s that’s that doesn’t need to be said, but I like the mentality that he has. We don’t have enough of those guys in my opinion, Jonathan. Like you stated earlier, we don’t have enough of the scataboos, enough of the darts. And I like that they’re coming in with this kind of like a I wasn’t here for the last few years. I’m going to change the culture. I’m getting the first down. I’m getting the touchdown. So, I like that about Dart. Now, he has to be smarter like you guys said, but I like that. Second point, the coaching thing, right? I don’t know a lot of these guys backgrounds and and and and resumes. I’m sure they’re all qualified to be in the positions they’re in, but what I would like to see, and I’m not saying you guys have to agree or disagree, but just for conversation, we haven’t had this from Coughlin, right? And what I mean is a lot of people are so concerned, well, we need a head coach to maximize dart, you know, we need a coach to maximize the offense. We need a coach to maximize the defense. What I want to see, I want to see I want to see a leader, right? In my opinion, as a when you’re a head coach, your main objective is to build the culture and to show accountability and excellence on the field. That to me, that’s a job as a head coach, as a part of the excellent O’s of offense and defense. So, you know why the Patriots were foaming at the mouth? Because Farbo was that person when he played for the Patriots. You know why Mike Tomlin and the Steelers are always in the playoffs every year? Because he requires excellence. Now they might not win the chip every year, but to be in the playoffs every year and and winning the division every year, that to me is is is requiring your team to play with excellence. And that’s what I want to see as a new head coach. I don’t care if they’re offensive guru or they’re great with quarterbacks or they’re defensive gurus. I want to see a leader of men. So I thank you guys for taking my call and I listen off the air and I think a lot of interesting talking points Jason appreciate the phone call that I want to piggy back off of. Number one with respect to you don’t necessarily need to bring in a play caller. I wholeheartedly agree with him actually let’s stick with New England JC Vel what was one of his best hires Josh McDaniels and he gave Drake May to Josh McDaniels and said you guys go off to your own corner. I’m not saying that I’m saying and we know McDaniels has a great track record with quarterbacks and May looks like a completely different quarterback, right? We’re talking about a guy that’s leading the NFL in passing yards and completion percentage during that last Giants game. So, you can have a good delegator of responsibility who knows how to command a room, command a team, and empowers coordinators and doesn’t have to be bottled up in the play calling. Now, in fairness, Andy Reid has done both very well. So, I don’t want to say that there’s one shoe that fits all. And also, I think I brought this up on previous shows, but if we go back to the comment from the last call of Jason, the Giants also have plenty of examples across the board. Pat Shurmer offensive background, right? And then you look at Ben McAu offensive background. Brian Dable offensive background. Now, Joe Judge was more of special teams, you know, he was a special teams, but he was more of that guy that you would say you bring him in and he delegates, right? Cuz he’s not a play caller. And we know how that turned out. So, the point is you could say they’ve tried different things. It hasn’t necessarily led to great results. So, if they want to go down any of the roads, they wouldn’t necessarily be wrong for doing that. Coughlin was a delegator. He was a commander of the room and he empowered his coordinators like the Kevin Gilbrides of the world, like the Spagses of the world. And it worked. It was a good fit. To each their own, as I say, once again, it doesn’t have to be that type of philosophy, but the idea that you’ve got to go with a defensive coordinator because the Giants defense isn’t good or you got to go with an offensive coordinator because they have a young quarterback. I completely disagree with those sentiments. Me, too. I actually agree verbatim what Jason said and I want a leader of men because I’ve seen what with this last 10 years since I’ve been retired. Eight years since I’ve been retired, I’m not that old. Who’s counting? But you know, but you know the last eight eight nine well I guess 10 years. Let’s go 10 years because Coughlin was here in 15 and that was my first year with the Giants. So the last 10 years uh of the Giants, you’re commemorating your anniversary with the starting the team. I see. Okay. How sweet. Yes. Please go ahead. I don’t want to interrupt. Yeah. But it it’s it’s I just think that there are certain coaches that are built to be head coaches, right? And there are certain coaches that will never be a good head coach because they don’t fit what a head coach needs to be, you know? And I’m not saying Spags can’t be a great head coach, but clearly he’s a better defensive coordinator than he is a head coach. Sure. Right. And I think that might be the case for Dave Boy. It might be the case for several coaches that the Giants had. But who’s to say that uh John Mara Joe Shane is wrong for giving a guy an opportunity because he shows promise, right? But I just believe I truly believe what what Jason said, you need a leader of men. Somebody that can get in here like you said, get the the coaches involved and and have them be their lieutenants, right? And then you have to get the leaders of the locker room be your chiefs, right? If you look at uh what the Patriots did, right? The guy, of course, on offense was Tom Brady, of course, right? But the guy on defense was Vince Wilford when I got there, right? It was Gerard Mayo, right? It was Dante High Totower. It was Devin McCordi. Like, they held the standard, right? And and that was coming from Bill. So, a guy that comes in to be the leader of this organization has to be a five-star general, somebody who I believe is a delegator. You don’t have to be that smart Lance. You don’t have to be that savvy as a offensive guy. You don’t have to be mean, but you have to be a leader. And you have to have every single person in that locker room following you without questioning one bit. Um the guy yesterday for the Chargers, the one that made the interception at the end of the game, Jefferson, I believe his name. Tony Jefferson, former Raven. Yep. You know what he said about his quarterback? He said, “I’ll fight. I’ll die for him.” That’s what he said. I was like, “Yo, that’s what’s up.” But like you want to have that as a team because guys are willing to put in extra effort. They’re willing to put their life on the line or body on the line. Let’s be real about this. Like football is a dangerous sport. So you are putting your life on the line for sure. But not even that serious. And and you know but it’s it’s just the culture that I’ve seen in different organizations. I just haven’t seen it here for the New York. And I just don’t think they had the right guy leading this team and leading this organization yet. Glad you brought up the Chargers. Harbaugh is another great example, delegator, right? He brings in Greg Roman. They have a history of working together, but Harbaugh’s not the play caller. He just he’s on the sideline taking command of everything and he’s got that team as his defensive coordinator. Yeah, sure. So, there’s a lot of strong models that come from the Coughlin school of thought. So, if the Giants wanted to go back in the direction, that’s fine. But then you look at what Ben Johnson has done for the Bears. Okay, Ben Johnson is an offensiveminded guru. He’s the head coach and he calls the plays. Well, that’s done wonders for Caleb Williams writing the Bears thus far. The results Shawn McVey when he first got without a doubt. So, I could give you attractive examples on both sides of the equation, but we know that the Giants model that at least has worked. Now, Coughlin is maybe an unreachable standard given what he did for this organization. I’m not saying that it can’t be duplicated, but I mean, you’re going to like the highest point, but that worked because he knew what he was strong at and he knew that he didn’t want to be bottled down with play calling. But they can find whoever the coach is, whether I well, if Kfka is given the promotion, we know Kafka is going to be the play caller. So, there’s not really mystery there. But if they go in a different direction, what do you do during the interview process? JC, you asked that coach. I mean, one of the biggest questions is what do you think of Dart? What do you think you’d run with Dart at the controls? And would you be the play caller or would you bring somebody in? And if you’re going to bring somebody in, who do you envision? I mean, those would be the pressing questions that I would have if I’m interviewing a candidate because not to say that Dart is going to be the only indicator of the trajectory of this team, but he’s certainly a very key component of what you want to do here moving forward. Yeah. And I don’t want to I mean, I’m a defensive guy, so let’s not I’m biased, of course. I can’t even say I’m not biased. I’m I’m very Show your true colors, but you got to ask tough questions on defense, too. Well, who they bring in if they’re an offensive minded guy? Players, too. Who are you? What are you going to do with Dexter? Sure. That’s all relevant. And that that is just I think and and I do think look I I think look Dave Ball got fired, right? I think he made a huge mistake in saying this out loud when he said that Jackson Dar is the leader of this football team after one of those games. And I’m I just put my hand on my head. I was like, bro, like he’s not and he hasn’t been. I mean, he is a leader. He will be eventually. But there’s guys here that’s been here before you, Debbal, that’s been the leader of this team. You know what I mean? And like I just feel like it just that showed me he truly didn’t understand the locker room dynamic of a football team, right? And you when you bringing a guy in here, they have to fully understand the locker room dynamic because you can’t not get the most out of your locker room. That is the number one thing. not your quarterback, it’s the entirety of your roster. Can I get the most out of my roster? Can I get practice squad guys going hard at practice, you know, and that is the culture that is built. There’s no culture from a guy that never was a head coach. There just no culture there, right? And the Giants, they’ve only done that once in the last 10 years. Shurmer was the only guy with previous head coach experience, if I’m not mistaken, of the recent group of guys. Correct. Yes. Shurmer was the only one with recent history. Yeah. Cuz Dable was not a previous head coach, right? So I I you know, like for me, we we got to give a little time. We got to give a little grace just like you would with a rookie, right? Rookie GM, rookie head coach. They’re going to make mistakes, right? So coming in, I don’t expect whoever comes in to be perfect and the Giants are all of a sudden, you know, 12 and five and they’re making the playoffs, you know, got the two seed or whatever. Like I’m not expecting that. But I do want to see progress in the culture of the organization, right? Not the wins and losses. I mean, it’s kind it’s gonna be not too hard to win more than they did this season. Um, every game is difficult, of course, like that, but I mean, two wins this late in the season is is crazy. Um, but I want that’s what I want to see first. I want to see, can you get every guy in that locker room? Can you get your stars playing like stars? Can you get your young guys not making silly unprofessional mistakes, right? Can you get your roster to do that? Now, let’s see what you look like on the football field because you have to take care of that first. Real quickly before we get back to the calls, you were bringing up a point talking about you can’t just focus on one facet. Interestingly, the NFC East is being showcased on Hard Knocks and one of the cutaways showed CFKA. Yeah, I did. I saw the first only one episode. I said that behind. Don’t worry, we’ll give you time to catch up and then I’ll truly test you maybe in about a week or two. But they showed a little bit of the Giants and they showed when Charlie Bolins, the new defensive coordinator, addressed the unit for the first time, who was sitting in the room, Mike Cafka, which is why I think there is an attractiveness about a guy not being bottled up into just play calling. So this way he can be attentive, right, to the other elements of the team. And I think Kfka deserves credit. I think he’s done a really nice job since he’s took over as interim coach to make sure that he’s available to the other areas of the team. Not to say Dable wasn’t doing that, but it’s very evident that he’s going out of his way to do that. And I think that is maybe something that is a lost art that gets overlooked. And this is good for him before you go onto the call. This is good for him, too, cuz he had previous head coaching interviews as well. This is good experience for him. Let’s say the Giants don’t keep him on staff at all. You know, he could be a viable option for a team. He could definitely be a offensive coordinate. We’ve already seen that, you know, but I think he’s a vi option and he has some on job experience now behind him because again it’s hard to bring in a guy and say culture because he doesn’t have anything. He never he’s zero and zero as a head coach, you know, like how good is he going to be as a NFL player? He’s never played an NFL game and I’m talking about a player. Same thing with coaches. You don’t know. Of course, there’s no proof in the pudding, right, to use that statement. Yeah, without a doubt. Let’s head back to the lines. We got Lawrence in Florida with us on BBKO. What’s happening, Lawrence? Hi, thanks for having me. Sure. What’s on your mind? I just want to say I want the Giants to get some tough guys on that team. I mean, these guys, they tackle high. Uh they’ll tackle him for a three yard gain. By the time they bring him down, he gained eight yards. None of the Giants would have hit the the uh Patriot quarterback like that guy hit Dart out of bounds. I never ever saw a paint come off a helmet before. I mean, you got to get some tough guys in there flattening some people intimid and being intimidated, more physical than these giant guys are. They just barely push the guy out of bounds. They kind of tackle their arms, tackle high. There’s five guys try to bring one guy down, a guy scrambles another 20 yards. That’s all I say. I want some tough guys. I’m with you, bro. Burns and I’m with you. And that’s all I got to say. I’ll take your answer off air. All right, Lawrence. Yep. Appreciate the phone call. Well, I mean, that goes back to what you were talking about earlier, JC. I mean, I think you made that very clear that the caliber of the players in the locker room, their mindset rolls over to clearly the field. So, I mean, that question is in line with what at least we’ve been addressing throughout the remainder of the program. Let’s head back to the lines. We got Len in Columbia, Maryland with us. What’s happening, Len? Hey, guys. How you doing? Len, what’s going on? All right. Uh couple of quick questions. Uh one for each of you. Uh Lance, on on the Hard Knocks, uh episode uh last week, um the first time they showed the Giants, it was a coach with two or three players trying to find the Atlantic Ocean. I thought that was somewhat telling and not a very good optic. And Jonathan, um, on the leader of men thing, don’t you think they had found a leader of men in their last four coaching hires? No. This is nothing new. They’re always looking for leaders of men. Okay. I got I got a suggestion, John. If we’re going to look for a leader of men, let’s look for somebody who’s got some accomplishments that we can look at it and say, “Wow, that’s a leader of men.” Like, they’ve been to the playoffs. They’ve got a Super Bowl ring. They’ve been coaching in the NFL. They got NFC experience. They know what it’s like to go into those stadiums and win games. Mike, leader of men, John, if you’re going to sit there and make a judgment about a 38-year-old guy, boy, you you’re going to have a tougher time than if you look at somebody who’s got some pelts, John who’s got some accomplishments that he can write down on a resume that indicate that he’s a leader of men. Let’s forget with this with these young coordinators. Gotta get somebody with head coaching experience who has some some stuff on the resume. John, look, I didn’t think we were going to get much out of this season. Um, and I’m disappointed. I’m disappointed for two reasons. One, that I’m I’m right. We’re not getting much out of the season. And two, um, geez, I thought we’d be further along. I just thought we’d be further along. So let me let me talk about something and kind of get your opinion on it here. The or right now today the this organization is sideways. There is so much uncertainty. I don’t know how these guys know from day to day who’s coaching them. I mean we fired a coach a week for the last three weeks. I mean the from from the from the corporate suite all the way down into the locker room there is so much uncertainty. I don’t know how these guys concentrate. I’m hoping we can our key players the 8 to 10 guys that are going to carry us forward. Lance Jonathan the 8 to 10 guys can stay healthy cuz two of those eight to 10 guys are already hurt. Yeah. Scataboo and neighbors. I mean, come on. I mean, it’s not a lot. Now, we’re not going to fire 70, you know, probably we’ve got we’re holding contracts on about 75 people today. Okay? Now, some of them are really short-term if you’re on the practice squad, but technically they’re under contract with with us. We’re not we’re not going to fire 65 guys. So, some of the some of the people that are on this roster are coming back. But man, I I I just don’t know until we can start settling things down how these guys are going to be able to concentrate and try to win a football game. And I think these next four are somewhat important. I mean, we got two division rivals at home. You know, that’s a step forward. If we can take one of those two or take them both, it will give us a win over all of our division rivals at home. That that’s an that to me is an important step. And and John, I know I I know you agree with me on this and Lance probably does, too. Um, man, you got to win those home games. You know, you you can’t keep leaving your getting your best customers going down those escalators in a bad mood. Well, they also desperately land before you know, you’ve lost your best customers, Len. They also desperately need to win on the road. They haven’t won on the road since uh early last season. So, you know, that’s been just as problematic. I I understand from a business perspective where you’re coming from. No disagreement there, but I mean, wherever you’re playing, I I think at this point, there’s that urgency to finish and put together wins. And and listen, we’re up against the clock here, so we’ll let you go on that note, I do want to react to a few of the things he threw out before we wrap up the show. The first thing being for those that may have not caught the Hard Knocks episode, he was referencing Tim Kelly, who’s the new offensive coordinator, was joking with I don’t want to spoil it for you, okay? But right at the beginning, this is clip has been all over online. He was with Jackson Dart and Theo Johnson and they were trying to determine which direction the ocean is in terms of what’s creating the winds in the Meadowlands. And I mean Dart as he acknowledged Dart’s from Utah. I mean, as a native New Yorker, I wouldn’t blame a kid from Utah to not necessarily understand the geography of New York City. He didn’t know what Atlantic Ocean was. He was unsure of where the bodies of water were. But I looked at it, it was all good and fun. And I think Tim Kelly was having some fun at Dart’s expense. I mean, to read into that and say that it’s a reflection of what’s going on the football field, Len, I I think we’re taking it a little too far. I get it. You know, you want to look for ingredients here or there. That to me was just a comedic element that goes on on the practice field, JC, which I’m sure you’ve taken part in seen things is you needle each other. I really don’t think that has any impact whatsoever of what’s going on on the football. I’m interested to watching this though. We’ll see. I’m giving you an outline. Last time the Giants were were on HBO, it it was kind of not that great. Well, that was more geared in fairness towards the off season. This is actually in season and we’ve had some problems in season this year at least. Well, I mean I I don’t think we need to have another show to explain that. But what I’m saying is it’s a different approach in terms of I want to watch it. I want to watch it for sure. So, I just wanted to at least provide the context, especially if some of our viewers are listeners. As far as the point about going after somebody with previous head coaching experience, well, we talked about Shurmer did have previous head coaching experience. I’m not saying he’s got the resume of, let’s say, a Mike McCarthy, per se. So, there’s nothing wrong to flip the script and say, “All right, we’re only going to consider individuals.” But, I mean, Brian Dable did not have coaching experience, but he’s coached in the NFL for a lot of years. So, you know, eventually, it’s like anything else in life. You got to give a guy a chance, right? How do you get head coaching experience if you’re never given the chance? So that’s how a lot of teams are thinking. But if they wanted to go the direction and say we’re only going to consider veteran head coaches who have winning resumes, your pool drastically without a doubt and that that you took the words right out of my mouth. A head coach if you don’t go offensive defensive coordinator. Yeah. But this this my thing and I think we could probably end on this hopefully Lance over time. I just think like and and I look at it as like I feel like my characteristics and who I am as a player on the field. I was a lot better at weak side linebacker than middle linebacker. And I’m saying that because it’s literally the next step over like it’s, you know, three two yards, not a yard and a half. But it’s just a different way that I play the game and how my makeup is as a player. And I think coaches are like that too. They have a different makeup of them that makes them great coordinators. And then there’s different makeup of guys that can be a good coordinator, great coordinator, but he still has the tools to be a head coach. I just think that sometimes we we don’t look at those tools that the intangibles like you do of a of a quarterback, right? All is he smart, right? Is he have a good family at home? Like those things matter. Yeah. When it comes to how good a player is, I think that we got to start looking at more of the intangibles and not so much the resume of a coach, especially when you’re talking about offensive defensive coordinators because if you’re up for a head coaching job, you probably been doing a good job at your job. But that doesn’t mean that this new job you’re going to be good at. No, I think that is all very fair and valid points. I guess the response would be sometimes though it’s hard to evaluate the intangibles until you put the guy in that position. For example, Yeah, Joe Judge, right? Bellichc gave a high recommendation, I’m sure, to the Giants and you figured, all right, he’s a special teams coach. He can understand what it means to balance various different facets, but you don’t know until all of a sudden, you know, you throw him into the deep end of the pool and you take away the swimmies and you see whether or not he could paddle or he could actually, you know, look like he’s an Olympic swimmer. So, it’s hard. There’s no easy answer, but as far as the point about if you just are very selective in proven head coaches, a you’re going to have one or two legitimate candidates and I think in order to do a very detailed interview process, you got to open yourself up to at least have the dialogue with people that may not fit the bill just for a learning experience and to get their perspective on what they think of the team. All right, that is going to wrap things up for us here on Tuesday’s edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York Giants. Broadcasting from the Giants podcast studio presented by Hackin Zack Midian Health. Keep getting better JC. This was a pleasure, man. Hope that we don’t have to wait as long. Good to see you. Yes, correct. Happy and there’s no acting at all involved in that even though the high pitch voice came up. But it’s been a long it’s been a long time. I mean, we did 2022 together basically and then we did a little bit 2023 and then it’s been like it has it has been. You know, I don’t know why they’re trying to keep us apart, but you know, maybe this is a without a doubt. My my heart is bigger. I can’t even show it with respect to that. All right, this love fest is coming to an end here on Big Blue Kickoff Live. Stay locked to giants.com for all the latest. We’ll be back up and running on Wednesday at 12:30 p.m. Eastern for Jonathan Casillas. I’m Lance Meadow. So long here on Big Blue Kickoff Live. Have a good one.

Lance Medow and Jonathan Casillas talk about the Washington Commanders and take calls from fans. Call in at 201-939-4513. Presented by Tri-State Cadillac.