More NBA Chaos + Joel Embiid Return & Panic For Cavs? | The Hoop Collective

More NBA Chaos + Joel Embiid Return & Panic For Cavs? | The Hoop Collective

Hello, welcome to Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we’re doing on Sunday evening, getting towards Monday morning. Joining us from the Xfinity Arena, I think. I can’t remember what it’s called. It’s where the 76ers play. Tonight, they played the Hawks in a game that went to double overtime, which is one of the reasons why we’re potting so late. Is Tim Bubs. This is 6 p.m. tip. I thought it was going to end relatively normally on time. Certainly looked like it was going to end normally on time when the Hawks were up by eight with 49 seconds to go. It did not get home very late as a result. Yes. And now you’re in a hostage situation there if you’re watching. That is that is correct. Joining us from Los Angeles where he’s gone to three games in the last three days. Uh and he left he was pulled himself away from the Pelicans Lakers game um which is going on uh across the street from where he’s at right now. Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners. Two and a half games. Uh, I did hear a whole lot of excuses from Bon Tempimps, a guy who whines and cries a whole lot about how slow I am to work. But my god, five hours after tip bonds, if McMahon had been covering this game, he would have written he would have started the pot at about 1:30 Eastern time. So, you did file a story that for November game is very long. Well, a lot of a lot of as I said in the lead, Joel Embiid, Paul George and Tyrese Maxi played together for the first time this season and Joel Embiid played for the first time in three weeks and both of those things became footnotes in the game as the game played out. Yeah. Well, I will say this. So, the Hawks won that game. The Hawks have had um they had a good weekend. They won in Cleveland on Friday and they uh we’ll talk about the Cavs in a minute. Oh, things aren’t going well in Cleveland right now. Um, and then they uh go into Philly and uh and pull out a double overtime win. Um, Jaylen Johnson is just putting together an all-star season. He had 41 points in this game. Um, made a uh made two free throws to force was that the for the first overtime or the second overtime? I think at the end of the first overtime amid the accidental review. Okay. Well, we’ll get to that in a second. So, the Hawks um are are starting to put together some victories and um they are so athletic and so long and they switch and look, they gave up 130 something points tonight because it was double overtime and Maxi had 44. But they’ve got some stuff going for them. Um but anyway, um you know, we don’t like to, you know, go over regular season little happenstances like this, but there was a weird timing thing that happened tonight, Bon Temps. Yeah. At the end of the first overtime, Tyrese Maxi missed two free throws. It would have put the game away after the Hawks had blown an eight-point lead in the final minute of regulation when they had a chance to win the game, which that seems to be happening like every other day. some team. Why can’t these team? First off, there’s a bunch of guys missing free throws. Star players missing free throws. Cade Cunningham, he may be having an all-star season. He’s missed two clutch free throws in the last week that contributed to now that they wouldn’t he is having an all-star season to be clear, but he he did miss those free throws. Tyres Maxi is having an allNBA season. He missed two free throws with four seconds to go at the end of uh the first overtime. That would have iced the game. Instead, it was a two-point game. Jaylen Johnson drives on the baseline, gets fouled by Dominic Barlo, goes line for two. Nick Nurse calls timeout, try to ice him. He had two timeouts. He’s going to call a second one after the free throws and try to set up a play. James Capers, our friend, friend of the pod, thought Nick Nurse had called for a challenge. So, he went to the went to the scores table. He reviewed the play. Nick Nurse later said when I asked him about it, I called timeout. I went and talked to my team. I walked back out and I said, “What’s going on? So he then goes to the rest and says, “I never called for a challenge. I just called timeout.” And the referees huddle. They then declare they decide that there wasn’t a challenge. And the key part of this is when they called the foul initially, there was.3 seconds on the clock. When they reviewed the foul, which was a clear foul, and said that there was a foul and therefore was an unsuccessful challenge, they changed the amount of time that was left from.3 seconds, which you barely have time to get a shot off, to 1.1 seconds, where you have time to like run a play and actually get a real shot off. But because they then said there wasn’t a challenge, the time went back to.3 seconds. And so it acted like nothing ever happened. So after a very long delay and a very long icing of Jaylen Johnson. He walks out, calmly hits both without hitting the rim. Sixers don’t get a shot off at the other end. Joel Embiid doesn’t play in the second overtime. Neither does Paul George. Neither does VJ Edgecom, who also came back today from injury and the Hawks pulled away and ended up winning. Yeah. By the way, Paul George came back is back from injury and he said tonight that his back stiffened up after the game or during the game. Yeah. Yeah, that’s no big deal. But I didn’t I didn’t like hearing he looked fine after the game. But yeah, I mean it’s with the Sixers, there’s always something new around the corner at all times. I thought Andre Drummond may have blown his knee out on Friday. He then was back and warming up fine and played the first six minutes of the of the played six minutes in the first quarter. Then he got pulled from the game because he said there was some soreness in his knee. There’s there’s always something with the There’s Yes. And then there was actually at the end of regulation, Nick Nurse called a timeout thinking he could set up a last shot. Nick tried to call timeout when the Hawks missed a shot with about 3 seconds to go and the referees didn’t see it. So there was no timeout given. Anyway, I don’t know how you felt about the way Embiid look. He played 30 minutes in this game. This is the first time I’ve watched him play since he came back. This is the second game back, right? First game. No, this is the first game back. He was out as of 12:30 this afternoon and then he was upgraded to questionable and then he played and he played a season high 30 minutes. He looked like what I expect him to look like, which is he moved okay. Um he’s limited in the ground he can cover defensively. Um when he gets the ball in a sweet spot, he can he’s going to be hard to take offensively. He he was Jo he is 2025 Joel Embiid. I don’t know what else to say other than that was my assessment. Yeah, I mean he he’s sort of been the same guy since the first game of the season. He had that horrible game against Boston. He was one for nine, had four points. Um but ever since then, he up until today when he had 18 points on 14 shots. He had at least 20 points in each of the next five games. His jumper looks good. And he’s been like you said, he’s been compromised with his mobility on defense. And until that changes and he really looks explosive moving around on the defensive end, then it’s going to be an up and down process and you know it’s going to be a struggle. Like he was minus 11 tonight in 30 minutes and a lot of that was from not being able to get to rebounds and not moving around very quickly on the defensive end of the court. But he’s still a guy that the defense really respects. When he’s out there, he’s drawn people to him. they can run dribble handoffs with him and Paul George and him and Tyrese Maxi him and Quinton Grimes and Edgecom and all these guys. Um, but the question’s going to be, I wrote about this in a story about the Sixers on Friday, can the defensive mobility and can the the trust in his knees get to the point where he can move around more fluidly and better on the defensive end? If he can, then the Sixers will really be in business. And if he can’t, then it’s going to be a challenge to navigate that because he’s been somebody that teams have been able to go at from a mobility standpoint and the Hawks had success doing that today. All right. Well, um the I will say that um the Hawks, do you agree with me about um that their length when they go out there and they’re they basically put four or five, six foot, eight to 10 guys out there that they they seem to me to to be able to cause teams trouble with that athleticism and length in a way that they just couldn’t when when Trey was out there and they just keep bringing them. They just keep they just keep inserting guys that big. It’s it’s it’s really you can see the the thought process and what they what they put their roster together and it seems like it’s really working for them. Well, they put they put a roster together to be able to protect Trey on the defensive end and now they’re getting a trial run to see what the team looks like without Trey in the mix at all. Um onoff numbers, small sample size for Trey, but you know, like he’s not a good defense player. We understand that. 123.2 defensive rating when he’s on the floor and in a much larger sample size. Uh without him on the floor, it’s 111.6. It is what it is. Now, he’s a top three pick and roll operator in the league, but the Hawks are, I would assume, in the process of figuring out would they rather move forward with Trey as an offensive engine and have to protect him defensively or looking like they uh they look right now where if Jaylen Johnson’s looking like this, they’ve got some serious firepower still offensively. Yeah. I mean, look, and D Alexander Walker, I’ve talked about him since the summer. I’m obviously a big fan of his game. He he played well again today uh for the Hawks, but when he’s out there instead of Trey Young, they’re an excellent defensive team and a iffy offensive team. And when Trey is out there, they could be an excellent offensive team and they’re going to be an iffy defensive team. And I I think the question going forward for Atlanta, to McMahon’s point, I I think is less necessarily about what what is the long-term marriage with Trey Young and the Hawks, I would say. And I would say more generally, like you could see the Hawks are building towards a future where Jaylen Johnson is their guy going forward. Like he’s a prototypical wing in today’s NBA. 69, runs like a deer, he can move the ball. Um he throws down crazy dunks almost every game and he fits with the overall vision of the roster. but they’re not. They need to have another offensive creator with him that is good enough to have the team be also really good offensively while fitting within this bigger, longer vision that they have. So, I think the question is, can the Hawks find another player like that to slide in here somewhere? And how do they do so? And the most obvious way they will is if they get one of the top couple picks in this upcoming draft with that Pelicans pick and they can slot in AJ Debansa or they can slot in Darren Peterson or they could slot in one of these other highlevel picks. If that guy comes in and develops alongside these other guys, then they’re really cooking and that’s the most obvious direct way to that happening. And if they end up with the eighth pick or the ninth pick or something, which is also very possible. We saw last year all the teams with the worst records picked from 5 to 8 or 4 to 8. Um, you know, then we’ll see what they do whether it’s in for ACC or if they have Trey longterm or whatever. But that I think you know when you look at where the Thunder are at obviously is the most obvious point on this out west with the Clippers pick where the Clippers are at. McMahon saw them yesterday against his Mavericks and where where the Hawks are at with this Pelicans pick. You have two ascending young teams with really interesting cores. Obviously the the Thunder away pass interesting, but they also have the ability to get a true differencem player at the top of a loaded draft that’s only going to supercharge where they’re at. And obviously if the Thunder get that player then, you know, just forget about it. I mean, the league is in a panic about the Thunder having the Clippers pick. It’s just that I’m I’m serious. I’m serious about that. as Utah did lose tonight, but as we sit here right now, end of November, if you know the the season ended today, which I know we’re 60 games left or whatever, well, the 20 games the people, it often is said though that the schedule that the standings at 20 games do tend to reflect where they are at the end of the season. Just just as a status update. Yeah, sure. The Clippers would give the fifth pick to Oklahoma City and the Utah would give the ninth pick to Oklahoma City. The ninth pick is the highest. Actually, the the the Kings just lost, so it would be the sixth pick from the Clippers. Now, also, by the way, can I just say something about that that Kings game real quick as a quick diversion? Mhm. Can I give you Zack Ed’s last three games? Oh, he’s put up some numbers. The Grizzlies have won three in a row. His last three games are 21 points, 15 rebounds. Saw that one. Two blocks. You were at that game in New Orleans or you saw it. Oh, I’m sorry. I think that the the He had a huge game in Dallas, too. Yeah. Okay. That was uh 15 rebounds, 12 points. Uh but that was a couple games before. 21 and 15. He had f and then uh they played in LA against the Clippers over the weekend. Uh he had five points, but 19 rebounds and two blocks. And then tonight, uh, let me get this 100% accurate. Tonight, Zach Editi 327 and five blocks. Zach is really good. Yeah. Now, the level of competition helps, but fair. Hey, 3217 and five is still 327 and five on on 16 of 20. Wow. I mean, the thing about the thing about Memphis, if Memphis plays their guys, like Jaw’s obviously not playing right now, but if they play the rest of their guys, they’re clearly better than all these other teams at the bottom of the West. I don’t even really think it’s up for debate. The question then becomes, if you’re Memphis, what do you what is the path forward here? Do you say, “Well, let’s get everybody back and like if they play their guys, they bring job back. They play him and Jiren and those guys, I think they’re going to be, you know, maybe not seventh, but they’re probably going to get, I think, to eighth in the West or at worst ninth. They’re fine in the West. Do they try to Well, I think after seven, it’s wide open. The point is, do they do they say, “Hey, we’re just going to push forward with uh with these guys and let these young guys play and build stuff up, or do they look at where they’re at and continue the conversation that Zack Limon started after last season when he said, “Look at where we’re at. We’re clearly not good enough.” and then he moved on from Desmond Bane for a bunch of future assets. Like I think that’s a really interesting thing to watch in Memphis going forward because with how bad the bottom of the West is now that Ed’s back with him and Cedric Coward and Jiren Jackson and Jaylen Wells like they’re they’re a solid team and they’re I just think they’re flat out better than most of these other teams that they’re playing who are all the teams they’ve been beating during this stretch. All right. Well, I got a far field that was my fault. Let me get back to the status update. Yes. As of this moment, the Clippers would send the sixth pick to Oklahoma City. The Jazz would send the ninth pick to Oklahoma City, which is top eight protected, let me remind you. Go on. So, the ninth pick is the best it could ever could possibly be. Yeah. And with the Sixers lost tonight, the Sixers would send the 14th pick to the Thunder. The Thunder as of right now would get three lottery picks. And they got the Rockets pick at 27. just draft, but um and the and New Orleans, who’s about to fall to three and 18, assuming they don’t make a big fourth quarter comeback, would send the second pick to the Hawks. Oh boy. Yeah. Uh by the way, it’s not often anymore you see unprotected picks at the top of the draft, let alone unprotected picks in a really good draft, let alone unprotected picks going to really good teams in a really good draft. Yeah. I would also, you know, like to say that the Thunder won tonight over the Blazers in Portland. Um, Shay had 26. It was a terrible performance from him. Uh, just 26. Well below. He didn’t he didn’t get 20 until there was like two and a half minutes left. I know it was a little drama. Um, to improve to 20 and one. Um, and uh, Denny Aia had a 30. We never talk about him. Uh, he 3119. Denny Avi is making the All-Star team this year. Yeah, he’s he’s an international player. Well, forget forget that. I don’t care if I don’t care what the qualifications are. He has been unbelievable for Portland. And look, as somebody who didn’t like that trade at the time for Portland and thought it was an overpay, I mean, he would look awfully good for the Wizards right now. I mean, it it’s awfully good for 30 teams right now. Well, yes, but I just mean like that that the Blazers bet right on Denny’s upside on that one. He’s been He’s averaging 26 and seven, by the way. Um, dude, so there’s two significant developments with the Thunder recently. Number one, Isaiah Hartinstein has a solius strain, which I learned what a solius is. Do you boys know what a solius is? Enlighten muscle. It is a lower calf muscle uh out at least 10 to 14 days. So, you know, they get they’re all NBA forward back, they lose their starting center for a little bit. They keep winning. The other significant development with the Thunder is, and this is fairly shocking, Sha’s had to play in crunch time in three straight games. He’s played in the fourth quarter of three consecutive games. It’s pretty close. I think it’s 11 fourth quarters sitting, 10 fourth quarters playing at this point. So, listen, I’m not saying they’re vulnerable. I’m just saying Shay’s had to actually play in the fourth quarter lately. I’m here to report I don’t know how his minutes per game um will be affected by having to play in the fourth quarter tonight. But coming into tonight, he was averaging 33.4 minutes a game, which would be his lowest since his rookie season. Is he averaging more points per minutes or points than minutes? He’s averaging 30 coming into tonight. He is averaging 33 points in 33 minutes. It’s with with the decimals. He’s a half of a minute more than point. Okay. Well, tonight’s 26 and uh 26 points in uh 36 minutes sure ain’t going to help. Geez Shay got to get it going, man. That’s really going to slow him. our projection system, which skews conservative by the way, has them winning 68 games now, too, which so I actually was looking up the Thunder’s late March and April regular season schedule because I’ve got a feeling I’m going to have to be on the road with the Thunder on a regular basis as they’re pursuing 70 and beyond 74. Yes, I’m not joking. 74. They do. I will say this one, like you may say with Bont Times what just said it like, “Wait a minute. How could they be 20 and one and projected to win 68?” They do have this the hardest schedule left in the NBA. They have Oh, and here’s the other thing. By our by our projection system, they are favored to win every single game for the rest of the season. Home or road, every opponent, doesn’t matter. That’s actually not that surprising. I mean, it say for the rest of the decade. Well, I I’m just I’m just saying I I’m pretty sure our system has never had a team favored to win every single game for the entire season. Well, that’s probably true, too. That’s my point. Like, even when the Warriors won 73 games, they were still playing a Spurs team that had one of, I think, seven or eight best records ever that season. So, like they wouldn’t have been favored, I don’t think, to win those road games. Yeah, they had to they had to play for homecourt advantage until midappril. So, dude, AJ Deance is gonna have to go to the OKC blue to get minutes. It’s it’s it’s a situation we really haven’t seen since maybe what the Lakers and Celtics in the 80s since land bias maybe. I am not kidding when I’m telling you like the league is they’re looking at this going oh actually what is happening they can’t believe the Thunder are going to get a mid to earn I mean the last time this the last time this happened was I was just going to say 2003 when LeBron got drafted and it was met Jerry West sitting there it was either going to be LeBron James or nothing and they ended up drafted Darko at the second pick and boy are they hoping there’s a Darko in that top six so I will tell you that on the 10th anniversary iversary of the uh in 2013. I’ve only done one um oral history in my career and volunteer for you. Oh, I’ve done numerous but I’m just a grinder. Go on. Um you know, not like one that was done like, you know, the night of a game where you did an instant oral history. I’ve done some of those, but like where you actually like spent months doing it. Uh Baxter and I just won a PBWA award on one. Well, congratulations. Thank you. You know, that was actually at Bod’s house. you know, was amazing. Jackson, I got to tell you this story. So, the PBWA, the Professional Basketball Writers Association, they announced their awards um like a couple weeks ago, the annual awards. Uhhuh. And the email comes in, congratulations to award winners, and then it was like feature whatever place McMahon. Did you Did you win? Was it first place? First place. Congratulations, Jackson. McMahon’s name wasn’t on it. It just said winner. Baxter. Baxter Holmes. ESPN.com. Congratulations, Baxter. It’s great. Internal emails went out. Oh, man. Backter, you did it again. What a great job. McMahon’s name is nowhere to be found. Nowhere to be found. Missing. And then like, you know, like in the middle of the night, like the email came out. No, you’re exaggerating. I will say I found out I found out that the awards were announced and Baxter sent me a text to apologize and say that he’d emailed the PBWA head honcho to get things right. So I will say this, let me say uh two things about awards. Uh one, I was stripped of an award a couple of years ago. I don’t blame you. Um a very high profile a very high profile award. You know, not the pulit sir, but you know, very high profile. Monk won’t say what a higher profile than professional basketball writers awarded. No offense. No offense. I’ve won. I don’t I don’t mean that’s not what I mean. No offense. No offense. I’ve got a I’ve got a shelf full of those. That that did sound so pompous and I want I want to apologize and take apologize. You are go on. But it doesn’t matter. The head just swells. I won this award. I was named this award publicly announced. The award was named after him. How about that? What award. What a word. The head just keeps getting bigger. Don’t worry about it. So, uh I’m worried. And it was for like uh feature stories of a certain length and the word was announced publicly, blah blah blah. And then like I never like got any like honor like I never like got the award or like you know there’s I think there’s like some sort of banquet or something you could go to. Window window knew that somebody had to be having him there to fet in McMahon. There couldn’t be a there couldn’t be a a a reason why he wouldn’t be invited to a banquet in his honor for an award. They should have had chicken parm on the menu. Clearly I had chicken parm tonight. I made it. What are we doing? What do we do with this story? What do we do with that story? Anyway, when the story and then when the when the when the rankings came out, I wasn’t in there. It was just gone. Oh, so I called, you know, I called my boss. So, he banged the table. Where is my award? So, I called my editor and I was like, hey, what happened to my uh honor? What happened to my award? And they were like, “Oh, no one talked to you about this.” So, what happened to it? Somebody had gone in and counted the words in my story and I was like 30 words to It was like, you know, stories of a certain length and I was 30 words too long. Well, that’s fitting because this story was at least 30 words too long. You got that right. The story was But you never history was where you started. did an oral history of how he didn’t get. What I want to know is who who went in and checked it. Who screwed me? Where are they? No, I I mean obviously I was I was ruled ineligible. Who Who is second place? Who is second place? I don’t remember. It doesn’t matter. Was it Backstro? Cuz he’s on top of those awards. I It doesn’t matter because he didn’t win it. So he blocked it out of his mind. It’s gone. Doesn’t exist. Hold on. I want to know why you brought up oral histories in the first place before I got you all sidetracked. Sorry. So, I did this oral history. I called Jerry West back to it again. 10 years on, I called Jerry West to do the 10y year 10 year anniversary story of the 2003 draft lottery. And Jerry West’s um eye frustration about not being able to draft LeBron James had not dulled in one decade. And if you remember that situation was if the the the pick was top one protected. If the if the Grizzlies got the got one, they got LeBron. If they got two, they got nothing. And it was because of a draft pick from five years earlier when they were in Vancouver. Was it Otis Thorp? Otis Thorp. Otis Thorp trade. Yep. And he said some words with curses around them uh about how they could not have that pick more protected. Um he I fairly c I didn’t speak it about it it again to him before his death but I fairly certain he passed away still furious. Um I mean I have no doubt knowing Jerry West a tiny bit I have no doubt that that was the case based off of how he thought about things. Anyway, he could have drafted Darko. Okay. So or Dwayne Wade Carmelo. Carmelo Chris Bosch. Nobody, you know, everybody pretends like, you know, they if they had the second pick that they would never have picked. Yeah. You know, no way would I have ever picked him. They said everybody. Uh, all right. Well, the team that did win the 2003 lottery um lost their third consecutive game on Sunday night to the Celtics where um Pton Pritchard put up 42. Um I will say in the fourth quarter of this game to start the fourth quarter I counted there were of the 10 players on the court between the Celtics and Cavs I think maybe seven of them would never have seen the floor in any meaning in in any real game in the fourth quarter of you know when the game was closed last year because like these teams are so like the the the look of a Cav Celtics game is so different. Having said that, Jordan Walsh was beating the Cavs to loose balls up and down the court first through fourth quarter. And um the Cavs after the game, Donovan Mitchell um did not talk to reporters. Oh. Which, you know, Donovan has sort of prided himself on being the voice of the team in good times and bad and sort of taking accountability. Um that’s telling that that silence speaks volumes. It’s very telling. Yes. Um, and sort of the sort of the guy who was sort of giving the state of the team address after the game, I wasn’t there as far as I could tell by reading the coverage was secondyear forward Jaylen Tyson who that’s not his place to be. I mean, that’s honestly that’s that’s on the vets. That shouldn’t happen. Um, but he was basically calling himself and his own team out for uh for lack of focus issues. So, the Cavs are now 11 and nine. Uh I’m sorry, 11 12 and nine and um uh they are they are you know fairly banged up. They announced today that Larry Nance is going to you know friend of the show is going to be out three to four weeks with a calf injury. Um I did not get that. I I should follow up on that. Um uh Jared Allen is going to be out for another week or so with a finger injury. He’s been battling it on and off. Um Darius Garland is back but not playing very well. Um yeah minus 27 today and you mentioned Pritchard getting 42. Those are pretty directly related stats. I have to say like one of the big things I mentioned this to to Bontemps, you know, watching Garland on Friday against the Hawks. He was bothered really significantly by the Hawks length. And then I watched Maxi tonight and Maxi just blew through it. um he just just ran around it and you know seeing you know what I’m saying you know Darius is a guy who plays at speed and in my view amateur eye he didn’t have the quickness of his on his feet to have explode and he just he couldn’t he couldn’t deal with the length well he’s also a lot lighter than Tyrese Maxi right but I’m talking about with with his foot with his foot right but even if he has his speed. He doesn’t have the body strength to deal with the bigger guys. He’s been a multi-time all-star. He’s He’s a very good He’s a very good player. What I’m saying is he’s playing, but I don’t think he’s right. As well, he probably isn’t right, but at the same time, like the league is trending away from guys really small guards like Darius Garland. Like whether it’s John Moran or Trey Young or him, like they’re all really talented players, but the league is going towards bigger, more physical players. We started the pod talking about how big Atlanta is across the board. Tyresese Maxi and Donovan Mitchell are not six, seven guards, but they are big physical, you know, use their bodies to get in the lane and attack guards. And you know, the concerning thing to me if I’m a Cavs partisan like our guy window is Donovan Mitchell is scoring 30 points a game. is shooting a career-high 50% from the field. He’s never shot better than 48 in a season. He’s only done that once. He’s only shot over 56 or 46 one other time. And he’s currently shooting 39% on over 10 three-point attempts per game, which is crazy efficiency. And he’s doing it playing 34 minutes a game, shooting a career-high 20.8 attempts a game. Like Donov is putting on a a show almost every night. And the Cavs are ekking out these games and like the Sixers who have dealt with a ton of injury issues, the Cavs are dealing with a ton of injury issues as you just laid out, Brian. And on top of that, I don’t think we can really expect the Cavs to stop dealing with injury issues because these are all players whether it’s Lonzo Ball or DeAndre Hunter with his knee or Dean Wade who’s constantly banged up. Jared Allen has been in and out of the lineup at times. Um Blair Nance, our friend of the pod, has dealt with injuries. Garland, you mentioned he’s had reoccurrences of this toe injury. Like I think it’s I think the safe assumption is the Cavs are going to be continuing to deal with guys being in and out of the lineup or just out. They still don’t have Max Drew coming back anytime soon. Sam Merrill um has been out a lot of the year. He’s actually that’s actually hurting them. Yeah. Like he’s he’s a good player, too. He isn’t he’s not there. They you know they obviously lost Hydrome free agency. Lonzo has been in and out of the lineup coming off the bench. Like right now the Cavs are in seventh in the East with Donovan playing like this and with a ton of injuries. Like I I think it’s fair to start to wonder again we’re a quarter of the way into the season. Like is this going to be year where the Cavs are somewhere in the five to maybe even playin range in the East? And while if the Cavs are healthy in April, I think they would certainly feel like they could go beat anybody, if they’re down in that kind of range and they got to have three series on the road and, you know, either dig their way out of the playin or have to start in the six seed to start on the road, that’s going to be a much different road than they’re going to they’re going to have to go through what we thought it was going to be at the start of the year when it was them and the Knicks in theory at top the conference fighting for the one seed. Well, and Orlando got off to that slow start. They’ve passed the Cavs. They’ve won eight to 10. You know, Atlanta’s playing well, Miamiy’s playing well. Raptors are starting to sink like a stone, losing two straight games. Actually, though, the Raptors, uh, since RJ Barrett’s gone down, you know, that that’s been a pretty significant blow, but obviously they got off to a great start. Mhm. Um, yeah. No, I think we all thought the the Cavs were pretty solidly penciled into a top two or three seed, and that’s going to be an uphill climb. Well, they have a friendly schedule for the rest of the for for December for the most part until Christmas Day. They go on a three-game road trip to New York, Houston, and San Antonio starting on Christmas. But they have a friendly schedule uh relatively. Um, and you know, uh, they have a they have a a back-to-back Sunday, Monday, um, and then they have a backtoback on on, um, uh, Friday and Saturday, and then they don’t have a backtoback for a few weeks, and I think they get some off days. So, um, you know, a lot of focus in Cleveland. Um, whenever I’m there’s only two topics to talk about in Cleveland. One is Shador Sanders and the second one is Evan Mobley. Um people are very very focused on Mobley that you know people want to um you know lay the blame at his feet because he is not having a great offensive season. Um his numbers are okay. They’re comparable to where they were last year. His efficiency is down. Um, Mobly is kind of like um he’s kind of like a what I’ve said to him, he’s kind of like a race car on offense and he’s kind of like a pickup truck on defense. He on offense you really need to have everything calibrated. He’s got to be in the right lineup with the right responsibilities, with the right mindset, with the right defensive matchup. And if you get all that aligned, he’s good. But there’s a lot of stuff that happens and the Cavs do a lot of stuff to try to try to get him going. Defensively doesn’t matter who it doesn’t matter who he’s guarding. Doesn’t matter where he’s on the floor. Doesn’t matter anything. He just makes defensive plays. Um, you know, they lost in Atlanta on Friday and um that was a good game. Both both teams, you know, there was, you know, some good play playing back and forth, but there was a stretch in the game where he he made four or five consecutive plays on defense that totally turned the game around. still absolutely complete playmaking difference make on the defensive end of the court. Uh and what people in Cleveland want is they want that same level of dominance on the offensive end. Well, that just may not be who he is, you know? Well, if that’s not who he is, then he’s probably not a guy who should be getting a 30% max. Like, that’s the, you know, like that. Well, I’m just saying like I I mean I think it’s fair to think Evan Mobley can grow beyond where he is right now. But like, you know, if he stays right where he is right now, he’s probably somewhere in the same category of like Jiren Jackson Jr., right? Who’s another guy who for his up in like he’s had some brilliant moments, but he’s also a guy that, you know, is he 100% a 30% max guy? Well, I think Chadin is a fair comp and the Thunder got Ched on a 25% max. Yeah. You know, with no super. Well, and look, we just talked about Now, there’s no super max. That’s right. You’re right. And we just talked about all these We just talked about all these guys who were out for the Cavs, right? If there was a time where Evan Mobley was going to get 16, 17, 18 shots and be like the guy on offense, it would be right now, right? He’s taking one more shot a game. And that’s cuz he’s taking one more three a game. And he is getting a couple more free throws a game, but he’s shooting 60% on free throws, which he’s always been somewhere from 65 to 72%. You know, part of the reason why his efficiency is down is because he’s taking more mid and longer shots. I don’t know how you explain a 13% free throw drop because that’s weird. It’s a I mean, it’s a it’s a fairly small sample size. If he hits if he hits a few free throws in a row, that’ll go back up some, but still. underlines what’s going on. Well, but he’s also never been like he he’s been 66 67 72 72. So like it’s not like he’s an 85% free throw shooter either. So, you know, like I do think it’s fair to be disappointed in him offensively this year cuz I think if you’d have come into the season and said the Cavs have all these injuries, Darius Garland’s out, all these guy, you know, backstrus is out, Stam Merrill is out, like you would say, all right, this is a good time for Evan Mobley to really take a big step forward and take on that offensive load and take some of the pressure off of Donovan Mitchell. And that’s what they wanted him to do. Designed it to do. That’s right. I don’t I don’t think I think I don’t think his 27 points on 11 of 17 shooting against the Celtics was the reason the Cavaliers lost. I hear what you’re saying. Bigger picture. Yes. I would just He has been playing a little bit better efficiency wise over the last and his efficiency is not terrible. He’s shooting 50% from the floor, 38 from three, right? But it’s still the lowest of his career by several points. And I would just say that is a good looking stat line against the Celtics. The Celtics also started Xavier Tilman at center and are basically playing all wings otherwise. So like he better have 27 points against the Celtics. And typically in the past, I mean the Cavs did shoot 52 threes today. Um, but and I obviously didn’t see this game, but we saw in the series where they beat the Cavs a couple years ago that Joe Missoula has never really been worried about Evan Mobley getting shots inside at the rim and like he’ll leave live with him getting dunks and not give up open threes. Cavs to go 20 for 52 from three and lost in this game. So, it’s not like they didn’t hit threes, but yeah, like you just want to see more from Evan Mobley on offense. I think that’s a fair criticism and especially in light of all these injuries like yeah like if he’s getting 17 18 shots a night like yeah that’s probably where he should be not at 13 and a half like Cavs just need him to do more than that it’s part of why they’re in the holder well I would just say that um Jordan even though Evan Mobley had 14 rebounds and Jordan Walsh had 11 Jordan Walsh showed more interest in going after loose balls than anybody on the Cavs roster in this game. Jordan Walsh, six offensive rebounds. He He spent a couple years not really playing. He He’s really earned a rotation spot on this team. And and by the way, Pton Pritchard, like you said, 42 points, 15 for 22 from the field, 6 for 11 from three. It remains amazing that it was not long ago, a couple years ago, that Pton Pritchard was not really playing, was ready to get a trade out of Boston and has instead turned himself into a, you know, obviously core guy for this group going forward. Is on an awesome contract and has just become a phenomenal piece for them. Like that’s a that’s a big time big time game, especially on the second night of a backto-back after playing Minnesota yesterday. That’s awfully impressive. By the way, I I because the Cavs have been so terrible at boxing out, the basic act of boxing out. Um I’ve actually been teach them teach them some No. I wouldn’t. No, I don’t teach I don’t even I don’t teach anybody anything. Um I’ve been looking at the NBA box out stats. They’re actually not as big. The Cavs are in the bottom 10, but they’re not. You know how Who do you think the NBA There’s panick in Cavs’s corner. Steven Adams leads the NBA in box out. You know, you know there’s panic in Cav’s corner, McMahon, when when Windows is going to the box score stats on NBA.com to box things out or box out, I’m sorry, box out team leads the league in box outs. It’s not the Rockets. I would have guessed it was the Rockets because they get all these rebounds, but uh the Rockets are up there. But Denver because of Joic. I don’t know. No, I’m not studying who’s boxing out there. Let’s put it this way. What team tends to just do things the right way and makes the you know, maybe Thunder? No, they’re not even anywhere up here. Oh, I I don’t know who is leading the league in box outs. I’m not studying. Also, the team that’s got the number one numbers. Who’s got the number one? I’m not expecting you to know this. I’m just the number one. He’s just flexing his knowledge. Who’s got the number one defense in the NBA in the last three weeks? Oh, really? Not the Thunder. Not the Thunder. Uh maybe it’s last two weeks. The Thunder have number one in everything, but this team is like best. Now we’re just making up. The Heat. The Heat. The Heat are the number one defensive team in the last 10 games, and they’re the number one box out team. Sure. I love a good box out. Yeah. Sure. I actually I have loudly in a gym smacked the floor and yelled at kids for not boxing out on multiple occasions to where you yelling, McMahon. the the IT department once tried to chastise me and I said if those little bleepers will box out then I won’t have to yell about it. All right. Who’s last in box outs from a team? Uh the Nets. The Wizards. I was going to say that good guesses. Nets Wizards. Pelicans. I don’t know. I’m not going to do it. The J the uh Lakers. The Lakers. That’s interesting. What player leads in box outs? What are we doing? What are we doing at box out stats? Stephen Adams, is it not Zack Edy? Zack Edy. Well, that makes sense. He’s got a He can box out a lot of folks. All right. So, I’m just saying he Dude, have you seen Zack Ed’s calves? Redwoods. He’s So does Stephen Adams. He’s They both men have large legs. They’re hard to move. Um, Zach Giddy was taught if you box somebody out, they’re not going to be able to get around you. That’s how you get uh all these rebounds. Uh all right. It helps to be 7 foot three or whatever he is. 7 foot4. I don’t know how tall he is. Um before we go, the Spurs played the Wolves on uh on Sunday night. um Aunt Edwards with his fifth consecutive uh 30-point game, which he’s needed because the um the uh the Wolves had two terrible losses last week and then they went in and lost they played a competitive game but lost to Oklahoma City. By the way, point guard Anthony Edwards according to Chris Finch. Well, he doesn’t have much else to to Although I will say sometimes in lateg game situations recently he snuck Mike Connley out there because well and that’s the thing Mike Connley is 38 years old and you know father time is landing some punches and Connley just can’t come to the rescue and he can’t play a lot of minutes and he can’t do what he used to do when he is on the court. So, like when they came to OKC, kind of the definitive play of the game was Devincenzo getting stripped by Shay at half court turns into a a go-ahead layup and the uh the Wolves never regain the lead. Like they the the Wolves have a point guard problem and you know, Ant is a lead guard. He’s not a point guard. And that’s where like you asked about earlier, why do teams keep blowing leads? So, I can tell you in the case of the the Wolves, it is a lack of a point guard and uh some pretty low IQ plays. Well, because not having a point guard tends to lower the IQ of your whole team, right? Correct. Um, Ant was 13. Minnesota was 0 for seven against 0 and7 against teams with winning records for the last two days, too, where they escape with a win in Boston and then they beat the Spurs Sunday night. Boston was one game above 500, but still it’s Boston just beat Cleveland. Yes, the one thing I’ll point out about the Wolves is they were eight and 10. They got off to an eight and 10 start last year and ended up in the conference finals. So, you know, I don’t we’ll see if they can get things figured out, but they’ve got some things to figure out. point guard. The point guard thing is going to be an issue and I think the loss in the Kale Alexander Walker hurts like they they could really use him. They don’t have him. Like we’ve talked about the Rob Dillingham experiment has not worked. They still then they they have not they’ve known they needed a replacement for Mike Connley for years now. It’s why they went and got Dillingham. Didn’t work. And I think that’s something I’m that’s something I’m going to be watching between now and February 5th is do do the Wolves do something to address that position on their team? And if so, what is it? Well, just in general, I think the Wolves, you have to look at the Wolves. Are they going to be a buyer? Um, they’re hard up. They don’t have much apron space, but they do have, you know, some contracts that they could move if they wanted to, and they have young players. Who do they who do they have to move? Well, Dante Duvenenzo’s contract is movable. Mike Conley’s contract is movable. Yeah, I guess. Uh, Nas Reed, you could probably move, you know, like not sure about that one. If if hypothetically, plus they’ve got a number of young players that they could offer up. I mean, if they if they wanted if hypothetically if they were going to get in for one of these possibly on the market max point guards, it’s probably going to have to be either Julius Randall, Jane McDaniels, or Rudy Gobear. Um maybe or like a Dante Dvenzo, Nasreed combo. And and my my point is to get in that kind of thing, it’s like you plug in one hole and another one spouts open, right? And I just don’t think they can turn Nas Reed into anything right now personally. But I would be Nas did have a a decent game today. A fine game. I would be surprised if they do do that. I think they may be looking, you know, non-max player type acquisition, but um well, Tim Connelly likes to swing big. Yeah. So, I I don’t know. I just the point guard position in general. I I’m cur that that is one specific team and one specific position I’ll be watching for the next two months. Does Minnesota try to do something to change that dynamic on their team? Did you see that aunt um talked about how he’s had to change his free throw routine because of what Mark Cuban said on? Yeah. And Cuban I think it was on road tripping with uh Yeah. RJ, I didn’t see this at all. What happened? So I mean Cuban was snitching for sure, but it was like and blatantly violated. Uh it was a blatant lane violation. Every time he shot a free throw, every time he used to shoot a free throw, he’d step over the line like not by like a wee bit, by like a foot. Like I did. I did see. Yeah, that I saw. Yeah, he didn’t he wasn’t stepping over the line to get a an edge on the rebound. His just his form Yeah. He just meant to step over the line. And Cuban said on road trip and that and it was in September. Um he said that, you know, it’s he told the league it’s a violation because a couple years ago, which it was. Do you remember this season? I don’t I don’t remember. I guess Ant hit a couple. I I don’t remember the game. He hit game-winning free throws against the Mavs and must have been at home because Cuban didn’t go on the road anymore. And Cuban was, I’m sure, pleasantly reminding the referees that that’s a lane violation. Um, that’s what he said on the on the podcast at least. But my favorite part was and said, “Yeah, I had to change my form because some famous guy went on a podcast or Instagram or whatever.” Yeah. Yeah. He was like, uh, I think he used to own the Mavericks. I think that’s what he said. Um, but like that sounds like, you know, a according to what Ant said, the league came to him and was like, “Uh, hey, we’re going to start calling you if you don’t change it.” So, he said, I mean, honestly though, it was like he was his foot was like a foot in the NFL, not a letter of the law. They call it middle school. All right. Well, um, last year he shot 83% 84% on free throws and this year he’s shooting 82%. Well, then I would say it hasn’t hurt him too much. Yeah. Um, and I I think Ant is probably strong enough to where he can shoot free throws without falling, keep his feet stationary. I I I think that guy who’s built like a freaking outside linebacker probably has the strength where it shouldn’t be an issue. He said it, you know, I’m a professional basketball player who shoots 200 free throws a day. I can fix it. Like, it’s on me to fix it. Like, he wasn’t he wasn’t whining. He just he was answering why if that why he changed his free throw form, and that was why. For as much as we’ve talked about the Wolves, it’s worth mentioning the Spurs had a hell of a week going to Portland. Yes, Portland’s down guys, but so are the Spurs. No, Victor, Stefan Castle, among others. To go to Portland and win and then to come from behind after being down 18 in Denver on Friday to win and win their group in the cup was awesome. And there is now at least a chance that Victor Wanyama will be back for Lakers Spurs in the cup quarters, which would be awfully juicy and could potentially set us up, assuming the Thunder get another win at home against the Suns, who to their credit, played them extremely well, Friday night, and have acquitted themselves very nicely of late. Um either Thunder Spurs with Victor healthy or Thunder Lakers with Luca and LeBron and co against the the champs in Vegas would be pretty fun. Not bad at all. They’re five and two since Victor has gone out, including this um this loss. And and Dear Fox has been able to get his feet under him and you know there’s probably was was the star of Friday night. He couldn’t miss the other night and he’s gotten going a little bit. He got off to a bit of a slow start. Kevin Johnson off the bench has had some they’ve sort of, you know, Dylan Harper come back. He’s had he hasn’t been great. He had a decent game on Sunday, but they’ve been spread. They’ve been getting contributions from up and down that lineup. The Spurs have pretty good depth. Um Julian Champeni is a quality rotation player that you know they have developed. Uh Luke Cornet was a a nice signing as a role player. Ideally, he’s playing 16 minutes a game behind Wimi, but you know, um, Kell Johnson is, Dude, Kell Johnson’s having a great year. He’s he’s a reserve now. But in 24 minutes, he’s averaging 13 points and shooting 57.8% from the floor and uh 6.6 rebounds, a third of which are on the offensive end. Like, he he’s having a really nice year. The Spurs have some some real depth and you know, we’ll see come trade deadline. The Spurs have traditionally not been an aggressive mid-season trade team, but they were last year and they are equipped to do so again. Yeah, I want to see what their schedule is coming up ahead of the um ahead of the uh cup game because I thought it was favorable, but I’m not finding it through my fingertips right now. But yeah, the the the cup, you know, the the you know, every year the cup’s only three years old, but we’ve seen teams go into the cup and that experience has helped them. Two years ago it was um you know, Indiana. Last year, I do think it helped the Thunder to a certain extent. Really? Cuz all I heard was them whining about how they had a long East Coast trip right afterwards. Well, whatever. They they I think it taught them some things, you know, especially when they lost that that title game um cup title game. Um, and you know, there’s a couple of candidates for that this year. You know, Toronto, I think this could, you know, Toronto is a team that’s, you know, just now beginning to start to feel itself. And, um, you know, I think they have an opportunity to play in the cup and, you know, playing some meaningful games and do something that that that group hasn’t done together. I definitely think that could be the case for San Antonio. They haven’t they haven’t played a game like this before. Tell you what, though, you you don’t want to win that little ribbon. Okay, because the old Lakers and Bucks have didn’t exactly uh I wouldn’t say that, you know, the elimination success carried over into the playoffs for them. Well, when Indiana made the cup final, none of us thought they were going to be in the uh That’s true. in the conference finals. And uh we did think the Thunder would be there, but I do think it it also was beneficial. There’s something to playing in games with real stakes, even if it’s low stakes and it’s not the NBA finals. And you know, for Orlando, for Toronto, for a Knicks team that’s still getting used to a new coach, even though they were in the conference finals last year, Phoenix, I mean, it’s been an awesome first six weeks of the season for the Suns. Like that game Friday night, they fought like hell in that game. It’s been really impressive. Jordan Knal um you know, they’re having a lot more. It’s a lot more fun to be a Phoenix Sun and a Phoenix Suns fan this year than it has been the last few years. It’s a lot more fun to be scrappy overachievers than epic underachievers. Well, it’s a lot more fun to watch them play. I mean, it’s it’s just it’s just a totally different vibe. So, they like they’ve been and certainly like you said, I mean, especially if they can get Victor back like, you know, to have Victor going up against LeBron and Luca in one of these cup quarterfinals would be great. We’ll see if it’s on the actual court or not after they couldn’t play on the Laker court on Friday. Got shipped out. But, um, but yeah, it’s it should be a pretty good set of quarterfinals and we’ll see who ends up in Vegas in a couple weeks. Yeah, maybe I’ll see McMahon there again. Maybe. Uh, we’ll see about that. I, you know, we got we got MT 10 versus uh Michael Country right in the um in the other West semifinals. I don’t know. I think that whoever wins that one might advance. You’re looking for You’re not going You’re not going there. You’re not going there with the the old Thundercats if they get a W. I will I will do as I’m told. Interesting. That’s he’s just a soldier. I’m just a company. Just a company man. As I said after I signed my contract extension, I’m like the Dwight Pal of the Mavericks or Dwight Pal of ESPN. Great company man with remarkable uh longevity. Yes, you’re definitely a company man. That’s first thing people think of you is that you’re just a company man who just never never steps out of line at all. Never. I I wear ESPN gear publicly frequently unlike some folks on this podcast. Uh, send me all the Spurs schedule. Memphis, Orlando, Cavs, Pelicans. So, I don’t know. I thought Memphis and Pelicans were easier than maybe uh at least Memphis. I thought that they got to deal with a winning streak there. Just skipping by Cavs corner, huh? Well, that’s not looking so that’s not looking so hard at the moment. Um, so we discussed that. Uh, all right, that’s enough. Get up up up 95 there, Bontemps. You’ll be home by 3:00 a.m. Yeah. Um, all right. Thank you to Bontmps. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Jackson for staying up late past midnight on the East Coast. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective and for getting through the Thanksgiving holiday with us. We will talk to you later this week. Adios, amigos. [Music]

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