Why the Indiana Pacers want a center, does Daniel Gafford make sense? Rick Carlisle nears 1,000 wins

Why the Indiana Pacers want a center, does Daniel Gafford make sense? Rick Carlisle nears 1,000 wins

The Pacers want a starting center. No duh. Who should it be and why? And what other reports have we gotten about Pacers targets? Plus, Rick Carile approaches win 10,000. Philip Rivers on the Colts. What would be the Pacers equivalent of that? And is this Pacers 4 and2 run real or has their schedule been soft? Derrick Schultz and I debate all of that today on the Locked On Pacers podcast. You are Locked On Pacers, your daily Indiana Pacers podcast, part of the Locked On podcast network, your team every day. What’s up everybody? Happy Thursday. And welcome in to another edition of the Locked On Pacers podcast where we of course talk about the Indiana Pacers as always. My name is Tony East. I cover the team for Forbes and Circle City Spin. And today Derek Schultz of many indie places the IBJ Quir and Schultz locked on cold squad show is going to join us again to talk about this season to this point but more importantly some big picture stuff going on during this cup break including two reports this week about the Pacers and their center hopes plans for the trade deadline including just generally wanting one and specifically Daniel Gaffford. Rick Carile’s next win will be 1,000. We opine about his career and what that means for him. The Pacers are four and two in their last six games. Is that a real thing or has their schedule just been soft for the six-game stretch and Philip Rivers is on the Colts. What What would be the Pacers equivalent of such a move happening? Really fun discussion with Derek Schultz. Let’s just get right to it. The NBA Cup break continues, but this man never takes a break. It’s Derek Schultz of many, many places in the indie community, including the IBJ, the locked on Colt squad show, and Query and Company every single week with Jay Query. Derek, hello. Uh, you were supposed to have no time to watch the Pacers in the next eight days because they barely play. Instead, you have to talk about them with me. How are you? Always excited to join the show, Tony. I always get uh when I get that ping on my phone and I look down and I see Tony E, I I get super geeked up about it. So, happy to be here. Sometimes I feel bad because I’m like half the time I text I’m texting people, I’m like, “Hey, can you volunteer your time for me?” So, at least it’s not so bad, right? Hey, I have to do the same thing, you know, with some of the shows that I do, too. So, I I totally get it, man. Yeah. H. Anyway, the Pacers are playing wellish right now. Is it because of their schedule? Is it because they’re actually playing well? Philip Rivers is on the Colts. We’re going to find a Pacer to get the perfect comp for that happening to them right now. Rick Carlile is approaching a thousand wins. A ton of fun stuff to talk about, but Derek, it’s here. December 15th is 4 days away when this episode comes out. That’s the unofficial start of trade season. Several of the buzzy rumors posts have come out in recent days. We’ll start generally on ESPN via Shams Trania’s inside pass because this is connected to the other thing we’re going to talk about today who very succinctly covered the Pacers via his inside information in one sentence. The Pacers are an active trade talks around the league to find a center of the future after losing Miles Turner free agency. Sources said Derek, duh, right? Duh. Talk about a tease, huh? It’s like Yeah. And is there anything more that you want to throw out there? No, I mean I I I don’t think this this is a surprise to anybody in the listening audience as well. You know, they they’ve done this by committee deal with Jay Huff and Isaiah Jackson. And while um I actually have been I I think Jay Huff has been maybe slightly even better than I thought. Um Isaiah Jackson is a he’s a backup NBA big. I mean that that’s I think what he’s going to remain. Um, I I don’t think there’s anything else there. Uh, and and that’s fine. Like that that’s it’s perfectly fine to be a He’s a perfectly capable NBA player. He’s just I don’t think a uh an NBA starter at that position. So, it doesn’t surprise me at all that that the Pacers are are sniffing around at that spot. I I think I think deep down they sort of knew that um they were, you know, I don’t want to say punting on the spot. I don’t think, you know, they’re not tanking, right, or anything like that, but I I I think that they knew that this committee thing was just going to be kind of a temporary solve to and and they’re going to try to fix it down the line. Yeah. I think they hoped Peak Hope, one of them of the Huff Jackson duo would be like, “Oh, maybe they’re a starter.” And really believed or prepared for the fact that those two were competing to be the backup for whoever they eventually get, right? Which is fair. like that’s what you should do when you’re kind of reshaping your position because you lose some guys from last year, Miles and Thomas Bryant. And early off was bad, right? He was almost out of the rotation. They played in Golden State. I think people forgot this. Like he played three minutes at the end of the game. That’s it. Like he almost literally got a DMP early in the season. He played eight minutes in Detroit. Like Tony Bradley was starting games. Jackson was the backup. 11 minutes in Utah in a game that they got blasted. He would have played less than that without garbage time. And then that the Charlotte game happens where he’s just on fire and blocking everything. And since then he’s been a monster, like a complete terror. Since then, he’s at 25 minutes a game, shooting 37% from three, averaging 11 points and three and a half blocks a game. Sweet, right? Sweet. Now, here’s the thing. His big minute games have featured like a one for five night that he just had, for example, against the Kings. There’s a two for nine in there. There’s a three for eight in there. There’s a one for six in there. The defense has been mostly steady, but I think it’s clear that big minutes, he’s probably not a starter. He’s certainly something, but he’s probably not a starter. And Jackson has played better of late with the second unit. So, yeah, they’re both backups. It’s fine. This was I think this was clear going into the season. The real question is how do they do it? Because they’re going to be expensive. Who is the right guy? Do they do it this year? Do they do it next off season? Right? The fact that they would do it now, it depends on who they get. But maybe it suggests they still want to do something of note this year, but it also could just be like we want to see this guy play with our current core before we do what we need to do this year. You know, there’s a lot of timing elements to it. But yeah, it’s one of those reports it’s like, okay, I mean, this is obviously good to know, but I think we already kind of kind of knew that this was going to be coming. Is it going to come for February or in June? Is the more pertinent question with this, which we’ll get to with the second report about this team. Uh, okay. Sorry, I lost my tabs. That would be Jake Fischer in the Stein line. We’ve had our first connected center. Speaking of centers to the Pacers, uh, the first two trade rumor connections for this team were guards, Keon Ellis, and Jose Alvarado. Of course, the Pacers had no guards for like two weeks to start the season. Uh Jake Fischer in the Steinline says Turner’s old team in Indiana is expected to shop the inseason trademark for a big man and likewise believed to hold interest in Dallas Maverick center Daniel Gaffford as a potential pick and roll lob threat for Tyrese Hallebertton returns from an Achilles terror. Derek, do you have any Daniel Gaffford thoughts? Do you believe in this idea for the Pacers before we dive more into this? Yeah, I I mean he uh you know he’s a solid player. Um, I I don’t know if that’s exactly uh something that’s going to send any shock waves through the the Pacers fan base. I think he’s current he’s better than their their current um options. You know, he’s he’s a guy that that, you know, kind of lives in the paints and and and all of that and he doesn’t necessarily need the basketball. Um so I think that that can be good too with you know, some other players that that need the ball in the Pacers offense. Um, but that doesn’t excite me as much as say like Walker Kesler or um, you know, some of these other names that while they may not have have been officially thrown out, um, could be out there for the taken uh, given given the circumstances that surround those teams. Yeah, I would agree with that. Gafford is clearly good. Like he was a starting center for a finals team two years ago, right? That did happen for Dallas. Um he makes just over the mid-level exception. So they can’t take him into their trade exception for Halbertton for many reasons. They can’t take him in to the mid-level this year. And he starts an extension next year that’s very reasonable. 3 years 54 million. That is the max extension he could get and still be traded mid-season this year, which obviously always makes you go, hm, what are the Mavericks thinking as they do this very obviously down to the number kind of transaction. So, you’d be getting him for really like four years, 68. He is a good player, right? He sets hard screens. He gets into the into space around the basket. He’s a good finisher. He’s an improved defender. Many teams have tried to have Daniel Gaffford and liked him. And then he gets a bigger role. That happened with the Bulls, that happened with the Wizards, that is now happening with the Dallas Mavericks. Uh he’s also been kind of banged up a lot in his career. He has taken a one three, I believe, in his entire career, like two. He’s not really a floor spacer. He’s an okay, I would say above average, but uh you know defensive player. He’s a good player. He is a starting caliber center. I think the Pacers would be like sweet. But I do think that you are right that the more appealing yet less attainable options would be the currently young and good guys who can both grow with the Pacers in their, you know, 2, three year window after this year, whatever it may be, but are also still young and are also, excuse me, still talented and can help them win right away because they cannot go into next year with a draft pick or a a non ready to go center as their center. Like they’re going to be trying to be winning right away. So that’s why that like Gaffford might lead the line. If you’re Daniel Gaffford or better, great. You can start for the Pacers at center. Yeah, I would agree with that. Anybody worse than that doesn’t make sense. So, these young guys have to be at least as good as him. Yeah. No, I I would agree with that. And and you got to talk about the value proposition of that, too. You know, what you would have to give up for him would be less than what you would have to give up for some of these other options that we might end up talking about here. And um and and the contract is reasonable, too. you know, if you’re just thinking about trading and, you know, a pick and I don’t know, Obie’s deal or something, you know what I mean? I’m just spitballing, but I’m just throwing some things out there. Um, there are some things that probably that that can make sense for them. But, um, you’re right. You know, just the fact that he’s been, uh, you know, a guy that’s still in the prime of his career, too. He’s not on the young side, but he’s not on the old side either. Um, so I I think that could be beneficial for a team that will be, I I’m assuming, ready to hit the ground running once Hallebertton gets back healthy. uh for 2627 as current contract takes him through age 30. That’s great. Perfect. Cool. No issue. Yeah. No fear of uh oh, he fell apart all of a sudden outside of the fact that he has been a little bit banged up. Of course, the backup for Gaffford should have been starter slash sometimes did start is Dererick Lively who’s good and young and Walker Kessler is going to be a popular option. And I keep hearing this this take Derek. It’s well they’re perfect. They’re they’re young and talented and they’re out. They’re both out for the year. perfect for the Pacers and their their outlook for the season. I’m like, yeah, that’s also perfect for the Jazz and the Mavs who also suck. Like, that actually kind of makes it harder for me to con conceptualize a trade. Unless, of course, those teams don’t want like in Kesler’s case, he’s a free agent next year. Maybe the Jazz don’t want to pay him, but it’s like that’s not this huge advantage unique to the Pacers. The teams they’re on also like that about these guys at the moment, unfortunately. It’s the reality. So, it’s all it’s all going to be tricky and and endlessly fascinating. But the Jazz are the other thing with the Jazz that I see a lot of is like, “Oh, trading with Danny Age is so horrible.” I’m like, “Is it like a lot of his recent year trades are not that great?” Like, he certainly is good at trading stars, but in general, I I don’t know. I feel like that’s a little overblown as well. Yeah. And I still think you’re even though these these teams are in the position that they are, um, these players, you’re you’re still somewhat buying low, right? Yes. That’ be the hope. Yeah, we’re still projecting out what Walker Kuster is going to be. He’s still a very young player and the Jazz know that. They’re not stupid, but at the same time, it’s not like, you know, he’s in the middle of having a really good season right now. And, you know, they’re not interested in paying him and they’re looking to offload him. So, I think that could be an advantage for the Pacers, too, in this market. Like, all the reasons you, the fan, want that player on the Pacers is the same reason the team they’re currently on, also wants them on their team and makes them harder to get. But that’s life and that’s why trades happen in the NBA. Everybody, a quick break so we can talk about two groups of people. First up is game time. The World Cup is coming to North America for the first time since 1994. And with 48 teams for the first time ever, it’s going to be huge. But let’s be honest, getting tickets is the hard part. That’s where the game time app is clutch. Finally giving fans a real advantage when it comes to snagging seats with Game Time. You can track price drops in real time, get alerts when great seats open, and buy tickets the moment they hit the app. It puts the power back in your hands and makes going to the World Cup realistic instead of impossible. You just pull up the app. The layout makes it simple to scroll through matchups. You can pick your seat view. You can see the all-in price with no hidden fees. At the end, you’ll see what the pitch looks like. You’ll get alerts for matches that you want to grab tickets for the moment that price drops. Take the guesswork at a buying World Cup tickets every match, concert, or event with game time. Download the Game Time app. Create an account. Use the code locked on NBA. You’ll get $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply again. Download the app, make an account, use the code locked on NBA for $20 off. Swipe, tap, ticket, go. Game time. I also have to tell you guys about Quo. New year, same new year, excuse me, new systems. And it is the time when a lot of us look at the messier parts of running a business and think there has to be a better way. There is. Today’s episode’s brought to you by Quo, spelled Quo, the smarter way to run your business, communications. 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His next win, whether it’s Friday or Sunday or whenever it comes this season, will be 1,000. That’s crazy. I just had like I was thinking about this today. If you go 500 for 20 seasons, you’re not close. You’re not even at 900 yet. Like that’s an insane number of wins. And he the 10 other coaches have already done it. Like he’ll be the 11th to do it when it inevitably happens. That is wildly impressive. And that like when I thought through that math, that’s when it really hit me like how crazy this was. Like when we were talking to Jarus Walker about it at practice, he said three years in the NBA. That’s not even 250 games. Like how do you get to a thousand wins? That’s it’s like it’s almost hard to fathom when I thought about it. Yeah. It’s an incredible accomplishment. I I looked at the list uh and I think only 10 guys have done it um ever. You know, that’s pretty crazy when you get into that category when you’re talking about, you know, being the 11th guy to win on and obviously it’s all the names, you know, you know, Pop and and Phil Jackson and uh Pat Riley and Jerry Sloan and, you know, some of the real legend Larry Brown, some of the real legends of the profession. Um this may be the worst comp ever on your show. I I’ve always kind of I was trying to think about this and and like Rick Carlile is like you know we’ve respected him I think for a while because of the Pacers lineage and we saw him very early and now we’re getting him again but I don’t think nationally until the finals run or you know the conference finals run and then the finals run the last two years that people were like oh yeah Rick Carl is like really good at this. He he almost strikes me as like a Matt Stafford type uh where I I think you know Matthew Stafford Yeah. Now we’re realizing, oh my god, like this guy’s actually had a really good career and and is a really really excellent player. And um you know, I hope I I think people that are in the know in the NBA have known for a long time that Rick Carlau is is a Hall of Fame coach and and a great coach, but um it’s great to be seeing him kind of get his flowers for the Pacers team success. I mean, you know, this situation that he was air dropped into wasn’t exactly an easy situation here. You know, this team was stuck, man. like they they were they were worse than stuck and um and they’ve just gotten better and better and better. And look, I know this year kind of is what it is as far as the injuries and all of that as well. But, you know, there’s no reason to think that there’s still not even more to come from a Rick Carlile led Pacers team. So, good for him. You know, thousand win mark and um I I don’t feel like he’s ready to walk away anytime soon either. Yeah, I don’t either. Um and it speaks to a lot of things about Rick. one is what players have said forever is like he is very good at Rick here are your resources make the best product possible right make this team as good as possible and for a lot of guys who coach long enough that they in theory could reach several hundred to a thousand wins at some point they’re you know what they believe in about the game or what they were good at as a player about the game or whatever the game passes them by and they’re unable to eventually adapt to the things that they need to to make their team as good as possible with the resources given. I would like to use an ex-pacer as a great example of this. Nate McMillan won 760 games. He might win more. He might coach again. Who knows? He was a great coach, but by the end of Nate McMillan the coach, it became clear that like he was outdated in his offensive styles, right? It just didn’t work for what the NBA was becoming. And then he the same thing happened with the Hawks and now he hasn’t really coached since, right? That happens to a lot of people. That has not happened to Rick Carile who coached a postup style team even with Luca Andurk who figured out what Durk’s strengths were who built a crazy defense out of nowhere who built great offense out of nowhere and has done it with four well three but really two stints in Indiana four different eras and times of franchises and that alone is very impressive. But the other part of it to me and why he got an extension this summer that makes him a great coach right this second is one he can do that obviously you win a thousand times you’re a good winner. He’s also like gotten really good at development I think with the Pacers in this cycle which has really so many of the guys granted some of them they traded for and didn’t draft but they they saw talent in and Rick actualized it and made them good players and made this team what it is that is what makes a coach elite to me if they’re good at both and he has proven with this current group albeit right now they’re six and 18 to be very good at both and that is how you have a long enough career and make your teams good enough to win a thousand freaking It’s unbelievable. Yeah. I mean, I don’t think it’s an accident that Obie Toppin came here and was unlocked, right? And they they maximized him and found the perfect role for him and and he fit perfectly. I don’t think it’s a a coincidence that um Aaron Nmith became the player that he became here after being sort of a throwin in that deal from Boston, too. Um I think Carile deserves a lot of credit for that. I’ve liked the way that throughout his career he has always been, you know, a lot of the old school guys, you know, not just like the Nate McMillan types where I’m going to do it my way, but the ones that have been closed off analytics, Rick seems to have always embraced those and been like, “Okay, how can I use this data? How can I use this info to maximize what I’m doing or change my line of thinking or challenge my line of thinking?” And, you know, that’s what the truly, you know, the the innovative coaches in all sports that that’s what they do. They remain open-minded. And I think Rick has always remained open-minded throughout his career. It’s going to take a long uh maybe not a long time. Like after Spolstra, maybe Kerr, who knows how long he wants to coach. Like it’s going to be a while before another coach gets to a thousand, too. Like the way that teams have kind of figured out when to shift off of coaches is shorter than it used to be. I would say I think you could probably speak better to that, but it feels like the lifespan of a Yeah. of an unsuccessful coach is shorter. Eventually, Mark Dignel’s going to have 10,000 wins in the NBA because the Thunder will just never lose another game. But outside of him, like Spo and Kerr are going to probably have a chance if they want to. Spo’s already at 800. And then the next active coach, obviously Doc Rivers is well over a thousand, is Quinn Snyder and Mike Brown, like below 500. And they’re great for a long time. Both of those guys like it getting a thousand is so so crazy. The the the last contextualized a thousand I can give people is this. TJ McConnell is currently in year 11 with the Pacers. His teams have made the playoffs five times and those those teams runs have equated to 62 playoff games. So TJ McConnell’s full career plus playoffs is still not a thousand games of total NBA. Like what what are it’s insane how long you have to be good to get to a thousand. Yeah. And it’s a testament to how good he’s been. I’m glad he has the the championship because some folks need that for the validation. I don’t need that. uh he would have still been a Hall of Fame coach in my book even if he didn’t have it. But um you know and to do it with multiple teams, I mean he’s he’s won everywhere. He won Detroit, he won here, he he won in Dallas. Um yeah, he he’s one of the best ever do it. No question. Three of the coaches with a thousand wins, those being Rick Adelman, George Carl, and Don Nelson, do not have a championship, right? Just because you win a lot of games does not guarantee that you will do that. Don Nelson never even won his conference, right? like you it’s it’s hard to do this in the NBA. There’s obviously some legends who did it several times. Phil Jackson’s numbers look hilarious, but Cariles also look hilarious because they’re huge now. A thousand’s going to be crazy. He will never celebrate himself or talk about himself, and I really respect that about him. I guarantee you Pacers players will have uh something cooked up if they beat the Sixers or or Wizards over the weekend. One more break here everybody. I got to tell you about Zach. It’s 2025, almost 2026. Those days of waiting for something to become a full-blown emergency before you see a doctor. They’re over. No more walking it off for 6 months. No more pretending that weird shoulder stiffness is just sleeping wrong. It’s time to take your health seriously. And Zachdoc makes that easier than ever because staying healthy is more than just hitting the gym or eating right. It’s about actually getting things checked out when something feels off. It’s easy to schedule things with Zach Doc. For in network doctors, you can book right in the app. Real appointment times are listed, including on the same day. No more back and forth phone calls. It’s super helpful for routine checkups and those little issues. You can compare providers. It’s simple to keep your health a priority. It’s it everything you’d want right there. And staying on top of your health on an app that makes it quick, clean, and removes the stress is the way to go. So stop putting your health and your doctor’s appointments behind and get the care you need. Go to zakdock.comlockdownba and find and instantly book a toprated doctor today. That’s zooccdoc.comlockdownba. zakdock.com/lockdon NBA. Derek, you just saw this team play in person. They beat the Kings. That’s a thing that happened. I don’t know what quality of win you want to call that. For 10 minutes of that game, they looked quite horrible. For the other 38, they looked pretty dang good. They won the game by 11 for a reason. And they are now 4-2 in their last six games. Uh, but that is intentionally phrased by me to ask you this. Those four wins are the Wizards of Washington who have three wins, two wins, the Bulls, who have lost seven in a row twice, and the Kings, who have the same record as the Pacers. So, I I’m not saying that to say that this is my answer, but I’m asking you, do you feel like they’re actually playing better? Is this a real thing? Is there an actual surge coming here, or is this just they’ve played some crap and they are better than the worst of the worst? Yeah, look, uh, you know, the Wizards stink, so you always kind of throw that whenever you have a sample size, you throw the Wizards right out of it. And the Bulls and Kings certainly aren’t great. But what strikes me about this and and look, I I know this was sandwiched in between two losses where they they gave upund 130 something to Cleveland and to Denver, but if you go back to last month right now, Tony, every time that they went out there, they were giving up 120, 125, 130, 135 points. Every single night, they were giving that up. So, I it at the very least, you know, what they’ve been doing here defensively, like again, 86 points against the Wizards. Let’s kind of throw that out as the outlier because it’s the Wizards and they’re the worst organization professional sports in America. You’re excused. The Bulls 101. You know, the Bulls again 105. The Kings, you know, the Kings rallied all the way back in that game, but they were stuck on 103 for like five minutes. I feel like in that game like the Pacers slam the door shut on them in the final three, four, five minutes of that game and and it it doesn’t sound like much, but for a team that has only won six games this year, um I I’ve actually been pretty impressed in this stretch and what they’ve been able to kind of unlock a little bit defense and you know, it helps that shots are starting to fall, right? You know, some of these early season things were just like almost almost like flukeish level, right? Where you’re like, “Okay, this is going to correct at some point.” um and and get better just because it can’t possibly stay this worse. But I I think the defense has has changed my mind about it. Now, you know, the question is who wants to see this sort of continue? Because, you know, um I’m I’m not going to tell Pascal Seakum to do, you know, to tank or to do anything like that. But, you know, forecasting out here, if the Pacers were to go like 32 and 50, who does that help? What does that do? Um is that harmful? And I think the answer is, you know, yes. Uh for for a season like this one, I I don’t want to see them go 32 and 50. I don’t want to see them get clubbed over the head every night and give up a buck 50 to the Jazz. You know, I don’t want to see like embarrassing level play like what we saw in November. But um you know, I I I do think that this team is going to be good enough to beat the teams on their level. Certainly good enough to consistently beat the teams below them. And I think you’re going to see, you know, far closer to, you know, 450 level basketball um over the closing couple of months of the season, barring any more injuries. I think that’s a very smart answer because like if they go 500 the rest of the way, they’ll go what would that be? 35 and 47. Yeah. No, they I said before the season, the only bad thing is mid-30s. 40 plus you’re you’re at least showing what this team can do on a competitive stage. 30 or lower obviously okay draft is your priority okay mid30s like boo you have done you know when you win mid30s in Tyresce Halburn’s first full year great you show that you are building up toward that you don’t need that we know that you’re really good we got it we saw it twice right so I agree with that I do think that that will be a big question especially post Nmith return uh and I’ll get to that part in a second so I agree with you like that like there’s two tracks here one is if you’ve watched them every night. I don’t care who they’re playing. They just look better, right? You just you can see it. And they lo You mentioned Utah. It’s like the perfect description. They lost to Brooklyn and Utah early in the season. There you go. They weren’t beating the same level of bad team a month ago. That’s one sign they’re playing better. You can really just especially you can just see it on defense. Like they’re actually getting real stops outside of, you know, six minutes against the Nuggets here and 10 minutes against the Cavs there. I’d say honestly since Matherin returned, they played that game in Detroit. Maybe not that game specifically, but they beat Charlotte in their next game. And they’ve pretty much been capable to good on both ends in a lot of ways since then in a way that’s been like, okay, yeah, they’ve lost a lot of these two close losses to Detroit where they could have tied it with a three and Seakum could have given them lead late in Toronto. Okay, like they’re very close in those games and then they’ve obviously won four of six. So, I think it’s both. I think that they have won four of six because they’ve played just awful teams, right? Just like sad, depressing NBA teams right now. But they are actually legitimately playing better. And now the question becomes, what does that mean? Which is what you just talked about. And I still think that they should want to learn a little bit about who fits in what role when N. Smith returns and like how it looks so they can get to the treaded line and go, “Okay, we feel good about this guy or bad about this guy or this guy’s trending this direction or whatever.” But at some point they have to pick that path. Is or can they reach 40? If not, great. Okay. Guys, please bear with us. You have to understand what’s at stake. It’s just hard to do because 10 guys are going to be extension eligible next summer and you don’t want to. No, these guys are competitors. They don’t want to go away and you have to worry about your culture and all that sort of stuff. Maybe it’s easier because you know you’re going to be good next year. But I do agree with you that it’s good to see them playing better. I think it’s both reasons, but also it’s like, okay, a little longer maybe, but not not maybe maybe not too much. There’s a there’s a right time to decide. And I’m very anti-tank to be clear. They just started so bad. Like not anti-tank for the Pacers. I mean like as a concept of sport. I hate it. But I I’m also a reasonable person who understands what what teams might be thinking about. Yeah. And I I think we could talk about what’s best for the Pacers while also fully understanding that this coaching staff and the players would never subscribe to nor should they you ask them. You you should not ask after the blood, sweat, and tears that Pascal Seakum or Andrew Nemhard put into the runs of the past couple of years. There’s you should never in your right mind ask them to be like, “Okay, guys, like just lay down and and punt this season. You know, you have this finite time to be an NBA basketball player. I I want you to just kind of quit on, you know what I mean? Like, of course, it’s it’s absolutely ridiculous.” But yeah, like there there’s no difference between winning 30 games and 20 games in the NBA. You’re just it’s it’s bad. You’re you’re bad no matter what. This too. I don’t know when this date will come, but there will be a date where players know like they’re not idiots. They will go, “Oh god, we’re 18 games out of six.” Like, and it’s February 1st. Like, dang. You know, and maybe apathy is the wrong word, but some something sets in and your shoulders drop a little bit and you know, you just feel it like you just see it around teams. It just happens, right? So, maybe they’ll win so much before then that it won’t matter. this this exact time of the calendar last year, they went from 10 and 15 to like, oh, they they’re just the best team. They just are going to beat everybody every game. I don’t necessarily expect that turn. Uh, okay, Derek, you do the lockdown Colt squad show. The Colts are funny, so I want to make this silly end topic for you. Uh, 44 year old Philip Rivers, I saw videos of him throwing for the Colts. He made a funny joke about no zoom. He is back. He was eligible for the Hall of Fame no longer because he’s playing for the Indianapolis Colts, which is just awesome. listen to Lockdown Colts and listen to Derek on the squad show to hear more about that. They play the Seahawks this week. Perfect timing for a new old QB, a very, very good defensive team. Um, is there a Pacers equivalent of this? And I don’t mean that has happened. I mean, who would be the Pacers equivalent if this did happen for them? So, this is tough to do, right? Because Rivers is a likely Hall of Fame player in my He’s very good. Yeah. He was only here for a year. So, you know, you’d have to find somebody that was kind of a a one-year rental. Now, this guy, um, I don’t think was a Hall of Fame player, but was a very good player and a and a winner. Um, and and I think he aligns with Rivers age-wise, so I guess him coming back would be around the same one. But one that popped into my head, and I think he actually he technically played two seasons if I’m not mistaken, but Luis Skola was one that popped into my head where I was just like, that’s a good one. You know, you brought him in and the fans seemed to like him. He played well here. I think he was appreciated and then, you know, he was he was on to the next thing. Um I I think that gave me somewhat of um of River vi’s vibes. Uh the problem is is that I I couldn’t really find like I I I could only think of like complimentary pieces who I kind of liked who were here. And then I was always I don’t know why I I just liked him from a personality standpoint. He was a great locker room quote. I love Wesley Matthews. he was here for like, you know, three months or something like that, but he played pretty well over those three months. And that was the Pacers team that in 2019 closed the season pretty well. And, you know, they they looked like they were about to go on a run before they inevitably, you know, ran into the first round issues that all those Pacers teams did um in that era. But he was another guy that I thought of too. Um, you know, because the the the like the Boom Baby era, like the Reggie, Davis Brothers, you know, Mark Jackson era contained so many holdovers, it was it was harder for me to kind of like pick one out from back then. And and plus that was a different NBA back then where teams and cores especially stayed together a lot longer than they do now. Brad Miller from that era. Maybe he’s not even in that era. He was like the very end of it. Yeah. Okay. That’s not a good answer. So, Alex Golden was the one who asked me this question when we learned the news of Philip Rivers during the Pacers game. And for some reason, my immediate instinct was like, “Let me think of players who were on the team when Rivers was on the Colts.” That’s not There’s no good ones from that time, which is why my initial answers all sucked. And then Alex tweeted it. And Scott Agnes with a good reply. I thought this was a good answer. David West I thought was a pretty good one. Multi-time all-star who was with the Pacers for four years and was awesome. But um he was very good and he is exactly 45. So very very fitting how that one work. My answer maybe now is a guy who actually did finish his career with the Pacers how um Rivers did with the Colts and is now I cannot read a calendar very well. Uh he is 41 now so maybe a little too young but one season of AllNBA level play and top 10 and MVP finish. Never an all-star but still AllNBA one time. Al Jefferson, the return of big, that is my official submission for this question. That’s one that I missed. Yeah. You know, I I did not consider West because, you know, four seasons to me was too long. Yeah. It was a little I thought it was a good answer. Yeah. No, but but like that type of, you know, everybody loved him and the the the teammates loved him, the fans loved him, the whole deal. Um that was the case with Rivers. But yeah, man. Um Al Jefferson, that’s that’s a great one. Um, that’s a deep cut, too, a little bit because at at that point in his career, I mean, he was he was their last guy pretty he was like their James Johnson pretty much, wasn’t he? I I No, I don’t want to be mean. I I mean, it’s it’s like some people could have beat him in a dead sprint up the court like who were in the crowd like he was he was so slow at the end, but he just crappy stuff. I still have this video saved in my like random Pacers clips folder on my desktop of him pulling this gorgeous spin move around Joel Embiid when Embiid was like a top five defender in the league. Like he was just fun and crafty and was mentoring Miles Turner and Ekani Bogu and bunch of random centers. It was a good time. So he’s what I’m saying is he’s coming back. If they cut Tony Bradley this season, Al Jefferson’s coming back. That is clearly how this works, right? I mean, I think, you know, as as much as uh, you know, we’ll see what happens here in Seattle, and maybe I’ll I’ll go back on my words. I I do think that there is an actual chance that somebody 5 years removed can come in and physically at quarterback, if he’s getting the ball out quick, just with the arm, can can handle it. There’s almost no situation where this would fly for an NBA athlete, I wouldn’t think. Like, right, like you’re it’s way more reliant on athleticism and all of that. And I I just think somebody that tried to do this would just go out there and just die. Like everything would just explode. Can I remind you of something that did in fact happen with the Pacers? This is not the same. Um do you remember Damen Wilkins by chance in his brief with the Pacers? He was on the first year Vic team on a completely non-g guaranteed contract. This was 2017 18. And he played 19 games and he started once and he got cut mid-season. He had not played in the NBA for five seasons before that and they were like, “Yeah, come on in.” And I think he somehow knew maybe Nate McMillan from Seattle or something. I I forget. He was just there to be a vet, but like out of nowhere, this guy was out of league for forever and then, all right, here he is. But but Damen Wilkins certainly was playing basketball somewhere. Okay. Yeah. Like, okay. So, you know, he’s keeping his body right and and he he wasn’t 40ome years old. You know, Rivers Rivers is coaching his kids like high school games for the last five years and then to jump back in there. But, you know, we’ll see. I mean, it’s the Colts, man. It’s Indianapolis sports. Like, it can’t possibly get weirder, right? It just it’s just that that’s all that it is here. It’s just I’m all about if Rivers is weirder than Saturday. And I was like, man, I no. The answer is no. But it’s they’re both just so bizarre. The difference is is that when I saw the Rivers report, I was like, oh, yeah. Like I’m I’m not surprised that they made that call. When I saw the Saturday thing, like I thought, you’re you’re kidding, right? Like this isn’t really happening. Um and then I don’t know. Here’s the difference to me. Philip Rivers had his presser today and I was like, I’ll watch it later. I want to see it, but I’ll watch it later. The Saturday one happened during a Pacers game and all of media row had it up. We were like, we have to watch this now. Like I have to see this. How is this? When you talk about most awkward press conferences in Indianapolis sports history, here’s poor Jeff Saturday smiling like, you know, it’s like a a huge deal. He’s about to be an NFL coach. I don’t think they asked him anything. It was it was like Ers the entire time pounding the table talking about how much football he knew and then b sitting there like this like bouting in the corner. Oh man. Like um I would have loved to be in the room for that one. That’s for sure. I watched the whole thing. I got on the I felt bad. I texted James boy that night and I was like have fun man. Oh god. Poor James man. God you can’t you can’t cover a normal earlier this season when the Colts were rolling. I said finally your first indie sports team you’re on the beat up. That’s been good. This is my fault apparently. I jinxed it. Did he have the Borg year when he did the Pacers? He had no he had year one Carlilele when they but still I mean that was a team that was Yeah. traded away a bunch of guys. He had the first year of tie. So like that’s fun but they were awful games. Yeah. So, no, he did not have a good It’ll happen. James is still young. James will someday have a nonw weird sports season in Indianapolis to cover. I’m sure. Uh, TB deter to be determined if that will ever actually happen. Uh, this Philip Rivers part lasted just as long as I hoped it would, but we have gone well over time here. Derek, thank you so much for joining me this evening. Where I I mentioned them earlier, but many people probably heard you on this network, but where can they find you in general for indie sports takes with a Z? Yeah. So, uh, Jay Query and I do Quarry and Schultz ISC Sports Network. Every Tuesday night at 7:30, we stream it on YouTube and on ISC and and Twitter and X and all that other stuff as well. Um, IBJ, so um, every other week with Mark Monteth, so we kind of rotate back and forth on columns. So, so twice a month and a lot of times we’re talking Pacers, of course, especially going into the winter, we’ll be doing that as well. And then locked on cold squad show Wednesday and Sundays. Uh Tony hates when I uh plug the Purdue stuff, but I’ve got uh Golden Black Radio as well for Purdue basketball. Now that it’s basketball season, no more football. We’re not talking about football anymore. So good watching Purdue basketball. Braden Smith is a baller, man. It’s fun. Matt and Matt Painter, I I know you appreciate offense offensive geniuses and man, that guy when he’s in his bag, um it’s it’s pretty incredible. I’m going to I’m going to lose points with my IU listeners, but I do in fact usually like when Purdue wins or is good when they don’t play IU. I’m okay with that. Most of my friends are Purdue fans. I want them to be happy and I like good basketball teams and Purdue is always a good basketball team. So, yeah. And you still got your number one football hooers to focus on, too. So, you got that going for you. I did hear that they’re ranked number one. I just found out. Did you hear that? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had a really weird weekend. I slept so bad cuz I had this crazy dream that they won the Big 10 in in football. Some It’s just been It’s been hard to recover. I got I I got a lot of texts from friends that haven’t kind of kept up with me in my personal life and they’re they’re sending me like, “Congratulations, man. I’m so happy for you.” And I’m like, “Yeah, like it’s right.” Like I I don’t dislike IU, of course, but like I’m I’m not the way that I was about IU, you know, when they knew me, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago. So, dude, the other embarrassing part is like I don’t like football. Like they played Iowa in what’s their stadium called? Kinnick. Kinnick. And it sucked. It was 10 to 10 like a million punts in a row. I just gaming against Iowa sucks. Any gaming I turned it off. I tweeted I said, “This sucks. They deserve to lose.” And everyone’s like, “You’re a fake fan. You turn it off.” I’m like, “No, this is boring. This is not fun for me. I don’t want I don’t want to do this.” I don’t blame you, man. Some of those games against Iowa, it’s it’s not it’s not fun to watch. Big 10 football isn’t always aesthetically pleasing. That’s for sure. But Indiana’s made it that way here when the signetti I will I’ll admit I’m a fake fan. If they ever suck again, you will not hear from me. But I will be super obnoxious right this second. Okay, thank you everybody for tuning in today. Tomorrow we’ll get to part two of this NBA Cup mailbag and then games are back over the weekend. Woohoo. Uh so we’ll have action to talk about once again perhaps for Carile earning said mile stuff we talked about earlier. Derek, thank you again for the time everybody. We’ll see you very soon.

The Indiana Pacers are reportedly in the market for a starting center. Why? What makes sense? Does Daniel Gafford? Host Tony East and Derek Schultz from IBJ, Locked On Colts, and more joins to break it down before discussing Rick Carlisle nearing 1,000 wins and the Pacers play of late.

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