Knicks and Spurs Dominate NBA Cup Semifinals + Giannis Trade Talks Heat Up

Knicks and Spurs Dominate NBA Cup Semifinals + Giannis Trade Talks Heat Up

All right, to discuss the NBA Cup semi-finals, joining me today is Amin Elsan. Amin, how are you? I’m good, man. I love Vegas. It’s funny. There’s like my body has a muscle memory of summer league, but it’s not quite summer league, but it has summer league vibes a little bit because of the multiple teams and because of the media collection here. So, it’s good. I like being in Vegas. Yeah, Vegas is it’s like a great host city. I always enjoy coming summer league. It is my second cup. Can I say don’t want an NBA team here? You don’t. Well, how come? Why is that? I just I I think what I like about Vegas is it’s not an NBA city, but we get to come here for special occasions. And if you put us a team here, and there’s a lot of economic reasons why I think a team won’t be here, but if you put a team here, it kind of takes away the specialness of we came for summer league and then we came for NBA Cup, you know, and then if you’re coming here like in February, like, all right, now what are we doing? I I I do think it’ll be very interesting. The NBA seems to be continually kicking the can down the road when it comes to expansion. So, for now, we’re going to continue just being happy with these events in the NBA Cup next year. It won’t be the semi-finals. It’ll just the final. A little sad about that. I’m a little disappointed about that as well cuz I thought it was a great crowd, especially for the second game. Spurs Thunder. We saw the Spurs win that game 111 109. Upset OKC who fell to 24-2 on the year. Woohoo. Boohoo. So sad there. But for the the Spurs, they get Victor Wmana back. Comes off the bench in the game plus 21 in 21 minutes. They were at minus 19 and 27 minutes without him. He finished with 22 points, nine boards, two blocks, plus 21 in 21 minutes. As I said, immediate difference maker. I mean, I mean, it was obvious as soon as he went on the floor. So, if you’ve been watching Oklahoma City Thunder games this season, there’s an inflection point every game where it’s like, okay, you know, they’re winning, but we’re still in this game. And then they hit you in the face and all of a sudden they’re up 11 and 11 turns into 21 very quickly. And last night it looked like it was going that way cuz remember Wemanyama doesn’t start the game. He checks in and instantly shrinks. He sits down, it balloons again. It gets up to I think 15 or 16 points. He comes back in. It shrinks again. And it and at halftime, Victor Wmanyama had played 7 minutes and was plus 20 in those seven minutes. It was the most incredible immediate unquestioned impact I think I’ve seen in quite a while watching NBA basketball because whenever you look at raw plus minus there’s a lot of noise in there. Who was on the floor? Small sample this was undeniable. He got on the floor and the Thunder changed how they play basketball. They they played scared. They didn’t want any parts of going at him. And and then offensively, he didn’t have to do much, but he just drew so much attention. It made life so much easier for his teammates. I mean, immediately the first two plays, he grabbed those two offensive boards. He he scored on one of them and he kicked it out to Castle for the three on the other one. Or maybe it was Harper, but I think like immediately on that end of the floor. And then defensively as well, I looked at pulled up the numbers. The onoff with WBY on the floor versus off the floor. They the Spurs had a 83.3 defensive rating with Weby on the floor. A 113.1 defensive rating when he was off. The shot distribution is where the biggest difference was felt. The Thunder took only 10% of their shots at the rim when Webby was on the floor to 29% when he was off the floor. So just completely evaporated their at rim attempts which is in part why their offense is so stellar and that’s because of just Victor’s presence being near the rim. It’s it’s one of those things where it was so stark I would be surprised if the numbers were anything else. I I I have not seen Shay Gilis Alexander drive to the basket and say never mind. I saw that last night with Victor Wmanyama on the floor. And I’ll be honest with you Kevin I think we talked about this right before the season started. you said he’s going to be a top five player and I’m like, well, there’s a lot of great players. Pump the brakes. I’ve always been very respectful of his his potential and his talent. I love his attitude and his approach. But I’m also kind of like, look, it takes time. There are a lot of great players in this league. And last night was the first time I sat there and I said, “Holy, I could see him being the best player in the NBA this year. And I can see him being the best player ever within a reasonable horizon of time.” Not saying it’s going to happen. I’m just saying the possibility went from, yeah, let’s see, to, oh, it could happen. I mean, it definitely could happen. I mean, he obviously you need like a lot of like good fortune on your side, health, and that’s like the biggest thing with him. I mean, he’s had a ton of weird crazy injuries throughout his entire life. When he was 16, he had a stress fracture on his hip, you know what I mean? a long extensive history of injury, but like you know, you pray to the basketball gods that WBY can stay healthy over time cuz he definitely has that potential path for him in his future because it’s not just defensively with how he changes the floor. I mean, basically like OKC last year, they turned into a jump shooting team against Denver Zone. Wendy alone on the floor turned them into a jump shooting team. Like half their shots came from three. They didn’t shoot well. Defensively, we know he’s already one of the best players we’ve ever seen on that end of the floor. Offensively, this guy is still not what he will be in this project. Scratching the surface, honestly. And um this is going to sound real like touchyfey or whatever, but I think one of the things I like the most about him is his feels like a very earnest approach to the game. We’re so used to our star players, especially now, being a little jaded or a little too cool for school. You know, I’m thinking about Joic a couple years ago, like, “Oh, we have to do a parade, too.” Like, and I even Giannis not celebrating the cup win last year. They didn’t celebrate. It’s trickled kind of throughout basketball like this is how you’re supposed to carry yourself. And I love how just refreshingly honest he is about last night after that win, he says, “They’ve only lost one time. Of course, this is a big win for us.” Like he it’s beyond the NBA cup. It’s just the idea of, “Hey, yeah, this was a big game and we will cherish this victory.” Whereas most of the time, I think the uh the the conventional wisdom says, you say something like, “Well, it’s just another game on the schedule. They’re a great team and we have to we we’re our focus now is on the like you do all that talk.” He said, “No, no, no. We’re going to cherish this and be on to Cincinnati Bellich style for sure. Exactly. So his his positive energy in that way. I hope it becomes infectious. I hope other players follow his lead because man like this this thing is supposed to be fun. And I think that’s the great part about last night. It was a fun night. Both games were fun, but that that Oklahoma City Thunder Spurs game was so fun. You could feel everyone wanting that. It wasn’t like, oh, if we win it’ll be cool. These guys wanted to win and you could tell that the Spurs were incredibly happy and the Thunder were incredibly pissed at the end of that game. Oh, for sure. And I mean, I think in regards to WBY, I was sitting in front a row in front of like two or three kids with their with their dad, I think. And it was like just the the the energy that it seemed there seems to be in that crowd, especially from the young people. There’s a lot of families in the crowd it seemed like for that second game and the first game, too. But there like this style of basketball that he brings. WBY as soon as he, you know, he ripped off the the the warm-up uniform, you heard the crowd like he’s he’s actually playing cuz he didn’t play the whole first quarter, right? And so I was sitting behind the Spurs bench, like maybe a couple rows behind the Spurs bench. I was watching the warm-ups he did during the first quarter. First of all, he does like this Tai Chi. Yeah, I saw that. And I’m looking at it’s kind of like almost halfway up the tunnel, like off to the side. I had a good video of that. I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know if the broadcast showed any of the stuff he was doing. So I’m looking at I’m like, “So the monk thing is real. This wasn’t just a PR stunt.” Then he’s got this thing where him and Bismac Biombo basically just bump into each other. And I’m not talking about like a celebratory chest bump like they mimic banging in the post just like two rams just crashing into each other. And I’m like, “What the hell is going And then he walks over to that like that was the last kind of green light before he walked up into the scores table to check in. I mean it was instant impact. All that warming up worked out obviously for him. I mean OKC changed the way they play as we talked about. And I also think about the other takeaway from this game. It’s the first time all year we’ve seen the Spurs fully healthy. All three of their guards with Victor Wenyama and those guys continue to look good. their three guard lineup. Every lineup is in the pluses for net rating. Whether it’s Fox only, Castle only, Harper only, or Fox plus Castle, Castle plus Harper, Fox plus Harper. We have not seen the Spurs use all three of them together, right? But two of them or one of them on the floor basically all the time this season. I was skeptical about this configuration with these three guards working entering the season. So far, you know, we’re only in mid December at this point. the playoffs are a whole other conversation when it comes to that, but so far it seems to be working at a really high level. What are you seeing from those those three guard lineups or rather the three guard rotation the Spurs are using and why it’s been affected so far? Well, I think first of all it’s important to note they’ve roughly played the same amount of games with WBY as they have without to roughly the same level of success as far as win loss record. Um, and a lot of that is to do because Castle’s been spectacular, because Fox has been really solid. And then Harper is, this is the thing I worried about going in and says, “Well, will he be allowed to be a rookie?” Basically, if this team is saying, “Okay, we’re ready to take a leap.” Is he allowed to do that? And he has. He has his good games. He has bad games. He didn’t shoot it shoot it tremendously well last night, but it’s like you can do that when you’ve got the coverage pretty much of two other guards playing at a high level. And then the other guy you got to throw in there is Deon Vel. Awesome last night and he’s been a real steady setting force for them throughout the season thus far. Uh it just you’re hard to imagine like two years ago this team was like a joke and we’re like what are they doing? You got Jeremy Soahan bringing the ball up and it it just felt like what are we doing? I I get it. You know, it was really a soft tank is what it seems like it actually was, but I guess it worked because they got all these guys now. So, um I mean, if I’m a a Spurs fan, I’m looking at this and I’m thinking to myself, yeah, I think we’re I mean this I can’t put it no better way than this. The Thunder looked mortal. And I don’t just mean mortal like didn’t have a good game. I mean they for the first time this season looked unsure of themselves. Wait, what’s happening? This is the part where they lay down. They didn’t lay down and and you could see the oh, what do we do now? I mean, Shay had to be a lot more uh aggressive in the second half kind of to force the issue, but San Antonio just wouldn’t back down. And I think for the first time, I you see vulnerability. Not vulnerability in that there’s a a flaw in the way Oklahoma City is constructed or even the way they play in in that there’s someone that they fear. they like he put fear in them in the way uh they played and and adjusted the way they attacked and when you start to think about those guys developing the chemistry because again like you said this the first time we’ve had even had those guys all available that’s the part that we’re going to be watching for from now probably until midFebruary just to keep track of like the next 20 games or so they can stay healthy how does this work and then do we start to see Mitch Johnson throw in different wrinkles like a three those three guards at the same time. I mean I think what you’re touching on I mean with with the guards right it’s kind of you know is similar to the OKC formula having a bunch of ball handlers on the floor a bunch of guys that can play with the ball in their hands and a bunch of guys who can defend multiple positions as well and with OKC guys who can shoot. Yes. Exactly. And with OKC that’s one of the things that you’re touching on as well that changed. We talked about how WBY impacted OKC’s shot distribution when they were on offense, but also when We Wy was on the floor. They were defending him like they defended Joic. We saw in the in the in the semi Caruso and I mean it’s whether it’s JDub or Caruso throwing two at him sometimes. They’re not just, you know, plowing through screens. Yep. And play and they’re changing the way they have to defend as well. Do you think there’s is there is is there some type of formula that we saw from San Antonio in this or would that be an overreaction from just one there’s a formula I have one of the best players ever the Oreo kitchen if you have one of those too like that that works too. No, it’s it it it speaks to how good Oklahoma City is. We’re heaping all this praise and we’re saying, “Oh my god, it looked, you know, like for for the first time it looked vulnerable and and they lost the game by two points.” Right. Super cool. And and like if they they hit a handful more threes, they might win by seven, right? And the funny thing, we’re watching that last possession. Jaylen Williams gets the intentional foul. He makes the first free throw. He has to miss the second. And before he shoots the second one, I’m sitting next to Jay Adande and he says, “You know, there’s like a 44% chance that Alex Cruso is going to get this offensive.” And we joke like, “Oh, what is that? Amazon Prime stats or whatever.” Yeah, it’s powered by AWS. And literally right there, Caruso gets in there. He had an an amazing It was really a It’s one of those things where it’s like, we’re going to talk a lot about the victors, but Alex Caruso last night was spectacular. His timing with his head and his hands are so good. Um there were so many times where, you know, they threw Webby the ball and that collapse happened and wherever he showed it was either Dort or Caruso hand on the ball every single time. It was I I I’d never seen anything like it as far as again and again and again. Not a blind hack of the wrist. Like they’re getting hand on ball every single time. And it just that’s what makes them so tough is that they have a roster full of guys like that. Oh, for sure. I mean, up and down the whole roster with Caruso in particular. I think it was like mid- third quarter he where he had a steal and then a layup and then then I think he caused another turnover and then he there’s a mystery in the corner if I remember correctly, but it was like just this crazy Caruso sequence and that’s a normal thing for him. But it’s Kesan Wallace, it’s Lou Dord, it’s JDub. I mean it’s all these guys waves. It’s just they keep coming and that’s the part the part that I’ll be honest that’s that’s why they’re the favorites. It’s because at any time they’re 24 and two. I mean, we’re talking about it happens to be a day after their second loss in 26 games. It just it’s it it’s truly remarkable when you say everyone on our roster depends. Everyone on our roster can create a little bit to some extent. Everyone on our roster can shoot. And most importantly, everyone on our roster is selfless. Yeah. They they don’t care who gets the the glory, so to speak. And when you have that, that that’s what makes it hard. it’s already shooting, you know, through a needle u through the eye of the needle as far as having just a roster of people who do that. Then you say, “Oh, and they’re all great people who who are team oriented and selfless.” Now you’re talking about a one in a billion scenario. I mean, it’s the truth with them. And I think like you only can wish you could replicate something like that if you’re one of the 29 other teams. And and I think with San Antonio, I mean, this win, I mean, it’s just one win, but it’s a pretty telling win, especially following all the success they had with Victor Wmanyama without Victor Wemanyama, and then you win this game. And I’m I’m sitting there, you know, in my hotel last night thinking about, you know, wow, like they actually beat the Thunder. I’m thinking about should would it make more sense for the Spurs moving forward to stick with this younger group, stick with this team that they have like like Thunder the Thunder sort of did until adding Caruso, until adding Isaiah Hartstein before they won the title or have the Spurs shown enough that it’s worthy being aggressive this year? It that’s an interesting question because we’re talking about Giannis, right? Let’s just let’s we’re not just I don’t I don’t know who else it would be, right? Lowry Markin. Uh I don’t Maybe it’s just Giannis and that’s it. It’s it’s Giannis. It’s hard because he’s such an incredible player, but he plays a very specific style and you have to account for that and and stalling at mid-season. Yeah. and the age difference. You’ve marketkedly moved up the timeline in that you look at this collection right now and and it’s not out of the question now for us to see it now and say this could be a championship contending team. Maybe not this year, but it’s like with reasonable improvements from Harper becomes an all-star caliber player, you know, and well, even even if he doesn’t, even let’s just say Harper, maybe Harper becomes that also caliber player later in his career, but for right now, just Harper gets better. Yes. More consistent, right? Um even Vel could get better, continue to improve. Fox gets back to all-star form, right? Um Castle is the one I would say depends on him to be an all-star soon. And then Web Minyama just continues to grow and get better offensively instead of top five. He becomes the unquestioned the best player in the world. At that point, you look at it and you’re like, “Yeah, that’s a team that can contend for the championship for sure.” So, if we’re patient enough with this cake that we’re baking, we’ll get to where we want to go. You get Giannis and it’s kind of like it could work. It’s now or or but if it doesn’t work then where are you? And then then you throw in like well what’s it going to cost? What’s the cost of getting Yiannis? Because they’re going Milwaukee is going to ask for ask for Castle. I’d imagine Harper or Castle would have to be in that, right? And so where does that start off asking for both? They’re not going to get both, but maybe you end up with one, right? So I I think in the same way that we’ve had the conversation, if you’re Oklahoma City, do you go after Giannis? I think it has to make sense, not only basketball-wise, but also fiscal uh planning wise, cap situation for Oklahoma City. They’re in a different scenario because you have Hartinstein and Dort. Next year is the last years of their deals. They’ve both outplayed whatever they’re getting paid right now. Then you’ve got Homegrren and Jay Dub. Next year balloons up to max max deals for both of them. So you’re going to be in a situation not next season but the season after that where you’re if everyone stays let’s just assume they keep everybody you are absolutely playing with aprons. Is that a palatable financial situation for Oklahoma City? If it’s not then how do we reallocate this? Well if I get uh Giannis Adamo I don’t need a Hartinstein right? I’m gonna probably have to sacrifice one of the other big three guys in the thing. So, I do have cost savings there because I’m saying I’ve replaced not only a center but also a star. So, you’d actually think about it if you were OKC. I think you have to talk about it. There’s there’s no part of this where you’re like absolutely not. And the same thing for for SGA Janisfit would be a very complicated debate within the front office. I’m sure as well. It’s a complicated debate in every every team that’s good. That’s true. Yeah. when it comes to installing the teams where it’s like it doesn’t matter like Miami it’s like yes take them in absolutely we’ll figure it out later but if you’re San Antonio or Oklahoma City Houston team like that you’re you’re in a legitimate situation like we could win a title with this collection are we a Giannis away or is a Giannis kind of almost a delay not a step back but a delay just because you have to figure it out because again I think the Damen Lillard trade taught us it ain’t as plugandplay as you might think with Yan like, “Oh, we just get him a great perimeter guy and it should work.” It didn’t work in Milwaukee in part because Giannis is very set in the way he plays and he’s great. Why wouldn’t he win a championship playing that way? Why wouldn’t he? But if you again, if you’re one of these teams that’s kind of on the cusp or like Oklahoma City, you’re in the zone, you have to you have to have a conversation. You have to have some skepticism. I mean, it’s it’s definitely a fair question. I think like if you’re a Giannis fan, you’re like, “What the hell are you talking about? If you’re a Giannis fan, like what do you mean? How could he not help a team?” Well, I mean, it’s complicated, especially mid year, right? And that’s the thing. If I think if it were the off season, that’d be a different conversation for some of these teams. Clean slate, training camp ahead, all this and that. But mid-season, it’s definitely a complicated question. I mean, with OKC, I can’t imagine that they would end up doing it. I I think Prey and the Thunder will probably, you mentioned replacing these expensive guys eventually, it’s going to be the type of thing where we have this young guy who can come in. Thomas Sorber. Exactly. I mean, Stein goes and Sorber goes in. It could be that type of thing. And we’ll see over time how that develops. I think part of it, like what I’m just so excited about is just this rivalry that’s potentially brewing between San Antonio and Oklahoma City. Like even WY after the game saying it felt like a shot at the Thunder. It felt almost like a twoon line shot. He’s like, “I’m glad to be part of something so beautiful, pure and ethical basketball.” Pure. He used the word ethical. He pulled out the eword ethical. That was funny. I I was like, “Wait a second. Is he doing the is he doing the uh what they call SGA? Like the grifter foul grifter. No, there’s like a there’s there’s like the unethical whatever. Oh yeah. Which is dumb. It is silly. I mean, you could take away all the drawn fouls from SG and he’s still highly efficient in ISOs and pick and roll. And it’s like, oh man, like what are you complaining about? It’s too hard to guard him. Yeah, that’s the point. They’re not fouling him because, you know, they’re angry. they’re fouling him because he moves in a way that makes it almost impossible for your body control to stay in a sound defensive position without fouling him. That’s the that’s the idea. That’s the point. Um, but I do like, you know, it’s funny can say that and he can do things and I think we’re still in that stage where it’s almost like it’s cute. So, like you let him do it. So, last night he had an and an one and he flexed. Was it in front of Caruso? I think it was. Right. And then and then he walked him down and kept flexing and 449 other players in the league. That’s a technical pal. Yeah, because I mean it was like it’s you could flex but you can’t walk a guy down and kind of like following him around while still screaming and flexing. That’s a technical pal. But nobody even like a man he’s growing up man. It’s so funny. And I think like the womb chat uh rivalry that could brew over time as well. Block chat in the game. And Chad did not have a great game. I mean, he ended up with 17 points, 12 of 12 free throws, but he’s only three for eight in the game. I didn’t feel like he had a great game. It’s almost surprising looking at the box score and seeing 17, right? Uh it just feels like Wem has eaten his lunch a bit. I mean, like, it’s the comparison just cuz they’re tall and skinny. That’s and that’s where it ends. And that’s not a knock on Chad. It’s it’s a compliment to just how great Victor Wmanyama is. Of course. Uh the only other thing from that game was an awesome game, an unbelievable game until the final minute. Oh, the following three. It’s just I mean it just took momentum away from the game. This goes out to all the nerd here’s my camera right here. Right. This goes out to all the nerds on the internet. Every time someone doesn’t follow up like oh like you see what see what it looks like when someone does it right. It’s not it’s not the best flow. It’s not the best enemy. Disgusting. Uh what how would you fix that? Cuz Jay Adande said had a fix for me last night. I was like I don’t I don’t know if I like that. I mean there’s different ways to go about it. I think you you could the the most common way you hear people say is well it can be a side out or free throws but then that could create an endless loop possibility. I don’t think you can do that. I think maybe you could have a certain amount of times you can do that, right? Maybe that’s possible and then it becomes uh one free throw plus the ball. Yeah, something like that uh in the final minute of games. That’s sort of what I’m thinking about. Like you’re allowed one and then it’s uh one free throw plus possession. Something along worry about the unintended consequence. I agree. Cuz what is a foul? What’s intentional and all this and that, you know? Yeah. It’s like they’re like, “No, I was just guarding him.” Yeah. I didn’t mean to foul. I didn’t mean to foul. I’m not I’m not so sure that it works. Yeah. Ad’s solution was under like 30 seconds like in that scenario basically. Um auto if you foul like that automatic three free throws. And automatic and he said and then you’ll get rid of it immediately. And I said, “I don’t know about like I just worry about the unintended consequences if you fall on a drive to the rim.” Yeah. But I think it’s common sense that it’s not intentional though, right? Unless But it could be, right? If I’m going So, couldn’t that be up to the discretion? Three and my my man has taken a drive. I’m tackling him at that point. Absolutely. Yeah. Go ahead. Shoot two free throws. Right. And so now, what if it’s falls just beyond behind the ark? Like like like we saw with the fouling last night where they were falling as they crossed half court, right? Be quote unquote before the shot was taken. Right. Right. Right. Right. What if just those ones were were three free throws automatically? I I just I I just I think about these rules. I’m like, well, use the G- League for it. Maybe that’s what the NBA do. Use the G- League for these. Well, I’m still on the G- League where they got to do the thing where if a player does this, it’s like a player calling timeout. Well, granted immediately if you don’t have any technical power because I’m sick and tired of every little play no matter it’s 10 seconds doing this. You know what? Yeah, let’s do it. You want this power, you got the power, right? Like get rid of that. Like like look, we should treat this like a timeout. If you’re going to do this, it means something. And it doesn’t matter who does it, whether it’s a head coach or a player on the floor. If if they do it, we’re going to take it immediately. And so that gets rid of this co constant complaining guys have about like, oh, we got to review that because I didn’t touch it. I’m like, who cares, man? Just play. I think target score is the other one. El mending as people call it. I think it’s too big of a change. It’s not not going to happen. I don’t think target score is even an option that should be on the table. It’s just too big of a change. I just can’t see it happening. Maybe for overtime, you know, you use that like overtime becomes that, but even then, I can’t fathom the NBA doing such a dramatic change. But I think there’s little things with the following up three that maybe over the course of time hopefully they use the G- League to Would you change it? I get the impression you wouldn’t even change it. I I I would like to see what it looks like in practice because I I don’t trust so experiment. Yeah. I don’t trust our players either with the G- League or eventually when the NBA launches their European league. Use it use it in one of those and then after that make a change. I’ll say it again. I don’t trust our players with any sort of scenario. If this happens you get free throws like bet. They will manufacture. They’ll figure out a way. I think that’s fair. In the early game, we saw the Magic in the Knicks face off. The Knicks win that game 132 to 120. The big mistake happened in the third quarter. 332 left in the third. Magic are up 89 to 88. Mosley puts in an allb lineup. And then the Knicks go on a 12-3 run to finish off the third quarter with a Brunson assist to Mitchell Robinson, a Brunson floater, Brunson pullup, Brunson assist to Bridges, Brunson step back three, Brunson free throw assist to Mitchell Robinson. And that was all part of his 40point masterpiece. We saw I guess a really tough Magic defense going against Jaylen Suggs and Anthony Black. Brunson just it looked like absolutely unbelievable in the game. So if Thunder Spurs was the game of the day, the play of the day was Brunson crossing up Anthony Black so bad and it it was it took so long cuz I’m I’m watching it and like he crosses him over, Black falls down, the crowd goes, “Oh.” Black turns and looks at the ref like he shoved me out the way. Ref says play on. He turns back. The shot still hasn’t happened. Like he literally has the conversation with the ref, turns back. Brunson’s just now loading up and and he knocks it and I was looking. I was like, you better make this. This highlight cannot disappear. We need this moment. It was It was an incredible play. And Brunson was I mean, he’s been spectacular with 35 points in each of the last few games here. Uh he he’s been he’s so good man and so crafty and it’s you know the I used to I used to say this about guys like that. I say it’s the triumph of the human mind over the body. That’s what Brunson is, right? Because it’s like he’s short, he’s stumpy, he’s not athletic, he’s not bouncy, he’s not quick, very groundbound. I mean it’s not like he’s a vertical precise the footwork and the step throughs and and so you said 40 points. How much of that was points in the paint? 20 and 19. It was It was a lot. It was a high percentage of his points were all scored in the paint. This is against a good Magic defense. I I heard Coach Mosley talk about it um after the game and he was saying, you know, they’re used to defending in a certain way. And if the whistles go against them, they can’t defend that way. And then how do if I can’t touch them? Basically, if I can’t guard the way we’re used to guarding, how do you stop Legon? can’t and we saw that last night. Yeah. I mean, he was absolutely unstoppable in the game. The Knicks as a whole team played very well as well. I mean, Carlanthony Towns had a great game pulling Wendell Carter out to the perimeter. Bridges and OG, everybody was good on that side. I feel like with the Brunson aspect of it, when you juxtapose what New York’s best player did against Orlando’s best player, like on paper, Ben Carroll 25 points, 10 of 22, three assists to five turnovers. It wasn’t a great game, but you know, on paper, it didn’t seem bad. But yet watching the game, I felt like he’s playing a certain way when the Magic want to play a different way. It just feels like a a ill a poor fit between superstar player, you hope, with the way this team wants to play. He was detached. There were so many possessions where he didn’t touch the ball on the possession. I’m not saying you got to give him a shot. You even touch it. They went to Suggs early and often. He had a great first half. I believe early in the third quarter he has that one. He falls down, you know, the hip bothering him. He tries playing through it. He doesn’t play well. That’s part of that, you know, that Nick turnaround. And then in the end, he he basically has to sit it out and they have to play Jet Howard and Jace Richardson, two young guys who haven’t Richardson was pretty good. You know, it was end of the game. They played well given the circumstances, but you know, obviously they didn’t make up for what what uh what Suggs was bringing. And then on the other hand, Ban Carol, like I said, so detached and removed from the the from the flow of the offense that when he would get the ball, everything felt forced. It was the it was the starvation of someone who’s like, “Oh, I haven’t had it touched.” And so, oh, now I finally get it. Now I got I have to do something with it because I don’t know when I’m going to get it again. And I think that’s an important part of like understanding when you’re trying to run that kind of offense. You got to find ways so that your star player feels involved. So you think it’s almost more the Orlando the empowerment of him more so than being his own approach to the game himself? No, I mean you we know what he’s about. He’s, you know, so you’ve got to explain to him and like set it up for him to get those touches. I remember so Channing Fry when we had Channing Fry in Phoenix and whenever someone would shoot free throws after the first free throw, no matter whether he was on offense or defense, Channing would grab the ball, massage it, and then hand it to the ref. And I said, “Channy, why do you do that?” Said, because I’ll run up the up and down the floor 10 times and never touch the ball. I like to know what the ball feels like and feel comfortable so that when they pass me the ball, I can make that one or two shots or whatever I I might get in the next 10 possessions. Channing’s a role player, so he understood kind of like making the most of windows. Car’s a star who’s played four years, three, however many years he’s played in the league. But like all of those years, ball is in my hands. Ball is in my hands. Ball now all of a sudden you’re telling me I’m going to go up and down several possessions without touching it. Like you got to teach him basically how to feel still in the rhythm and in the flow. Some of it is how how needy can a guy be though? It’s not like it’s not like he didn’t have a ton of touches in the game overall. And if if you if you fly first class, it’s hard to go back to coast. Then they put you in the but it’s exit row. You have the leg room and and you know what? I’ll do it. So there’s no one sitting next to you. You got the middle seats empty. It’s like it’s still not the lay flat with the champagne when we take off. He had 92 touches in the game. What What do you want? The quality. What What does it look like? Is it I’m in the corner and we just burnt 14 seconds doing something else and now I get it and now I feel like I have to do something with it. Right? I’m not absolving him, but I’m saying when you make a shift in your system, you have to find a way for your best player to know how he can flourish. Phil Jackson put in a triangle in Chicago. I mean, they were going ISO with Michael a whole bunch back then and then all of a sudden trying offense, you you don’t have the ball in your hands, but you understand where you’re getting your same amount of touches and your shots. And so now he’s within the flow of the offense, but he still feels like I’m comfortable. You can’t just say, “All right, you know, you may not touch it three or four times and now you’re going to get it.” And expect him to still make the right plays and reads without having created that infrastructure. Now you create the infrastructure, you talk them through it, whatever, he still can’t do it. Now we have a different conversation. But the the expectation that he should just get in immediately, I I don’t I don’t think that’s that’s appropriate. I I mean, I think part of what you’re touching on is like it makes me think about the Knicks side of things. Like the Knicks changed their offense under Mike Brown compared to Tom Tibid last year and Brunson is still getting those scoring chances and sometimes they come in a different shape considering the way they’ve changed their offense, but ultimately he’s still getting his opportunities and we saw that change. tibs to Mike Brown. So far, it’s early on. It seems like an upgrade for them with what they can be and what their ceiling can be. With the Magic side of things, I mean, like you said, the Sugs going out did impact their end of the third quarter, but still the all bench lineup. I’m watching the game live like really doing that now. Like the Knicks still have their guys out there and they just got absolutely shredded. And with Mosley, I mean, I do wonder, we see the Knicks upgrade from Tibs to Mike Brown and they therefore look like a team more likely to potentially win the finals. Are we sure Mosley is the right coach for the Magic? I think so. I mean, he’s shown growth throughout his his tenure. I talk about this all the time. We just got done talking about in the earlier, oh, when Stefon Castle takes that leap, when Dylan Harper takes that leap, when makes that leap, you know, the the progression, coaches are the same way. Like the idea of Missoula in Boston. I was super critical of Missoula and he turned into a great coach. Jamal Mosley has been an assistant coach for a long time, but man, there’s nothing. They tell you all the time that’s the hardest move to make is like from this chair to this chair because you can be in this chair for 25 years, have all the answers and be the smartest guy, whatever. You come over here, all of a sudden it’s a different beast and no one’s good at it immediately. You there’s a learning curve to it and you hope, right? There’s so, we know there’s some coaches who are stubborn, but for most guys, there is a desire to change and learn and adapt and all those things. To be fair, this says year five for him. Exactly. That’s not like a rookie head coach, though. So, you mentioned the move from Tips to Mike Brown. I’m old enough to remember when Mike Brown was the guy who had an unimaginative offensive could never get better. And oh my god, you guys got Mike Brown all now. Mike Brown’s this offensive wizard. Yes. Well, how’d that happen? Well, he learned, he grew, he’s a student of the game. He improved as a head coach. Mike Brown won 66 games in in Cleveland. I don’t think anyone would tell you he he was a better coach in 2009 or whatever that was as opposed to in Sacramento or now. We all expect accept he’s so much better. And part of that is yeah, you know what these guys do when they’re not the head coach? Number one, when they’re not employed, they do the thing where they visit all these other coaches and they sit in on practices. Do the Magic have time to wait though? I mean I mean you’re talking about Mike Brown 15 years ago. Yeah. I mean that’s that’s a an example cuz you know we’re talking about him and it’s an example of the growth or whatever but the reality is five as you said five years and Jamal Mosley isn’t the same even from year one to now. So can we not accept that like he’s got some growth and it’s not like he’s got a roster it’s like okay they’re knocking on the door and they haven’t been able to get over the hump and now you start to talk about all right what do we do next? He’s got a fairly young group that have had injuries. They still haven’t had kind of the full compliment for a a good deal of time. You got to give them a chance to be able to do it. Yeah, you’re going to make mistakes and and but overall, I think he’s done a good job of getting them from point A to point B and you got to give it a chance. I mean, I’m pushing back, but I agree with you. I think he deserves some time here. I I I think I think the Ben Carro question is the bigger one, and we’ll see over time. He had a great playoff last year. We’ll see how it overthinking it with the Knicks. Are they just the clear favorites in the East? I mean, Detroit would like a word, right? Um, and I think the East, even if they even if we do call them the favorites, you’re still I think we all expect accept, excuse me, that the Eastern Conference has a volatility to it that the West doesn’t. The West were like, “Okay, see.” And then Houston and Denver, and then everybody else, maybe the Lakers, maybe the Spurs, whoever. But like, we all expect that. What do we expect in the Eastern Conference? It’s already kind of turned on its head. Toronto was good. Now they’re not not as good, right? Miami started crazy. Now they’re coming back down. Boston was struggling. Now they’re starting to get stronger, right? And all throughout it, while the Knicks and the Pistons have been winning, they’re not doing um basically the Oklahoma City thing where it’s like they’re clearly better than everybody else. You got Detroit, you know, was that three weeks ago, whatever, killing itself to beat the Wizards in overtime. Yeah. Like you got the Knicks uh losing to the Magic without Ber a couple of weeks ago. There there’s still these things that make us say, “Okay, you’re not infallible. You are the favorites, but we still look at I mean, hell, Atlanta, they still kind of I’m interested to see what happens. Porzingis is back. Trey Young is supposed to be back any day now. Um, what do they look like when they try to, you know, you talk about changing how you play this Jaylen Johnson centric thing and then you integrate Trey Young in that? Can that work? And if it does, could it enhance him? Could hurt him, right? We’ll see. We’ll see. But if it enhances them, okay, now how do we feel about Atlanta, right? Um, we mentioned Boston playing a lot better lately, but Simons kind of still hasn’t really hit Simon’s levels from Portland. What happens if he gets comfortable? Cleveland has had injuries. What happens if Tatum comes back? Well, that’s the one I’m That’s off the table for me. Yeah, I don’t know. We’ll see. It’s It’s one of those things where you just say it so that people get excited. Well, I don’t know. We’ll see. We shall see. Lawson Boston puts him on his injury report every day. Tatum’s not rolling out. They’re not rolling him out. I wouldn’t rule him out either. This thing like when we get the workout videos and all that. I’m like this is all propag there could be a day like their injury report drops instead of Tatum being out. You know, Achilles recovery turn it is Tatum Achilles recovery questionable, right? A day could come. Sure. Cleveland’s another one where it’s like now we have Mo’s out with a calf strain and before we had obviously Garland miss time and he’s coming. He’s kind of in and out of the lineup with that toe turf toe injury. Max truce hasn’t played and so what happens and Jared Allen missed a bunch of time. What happens when Cleveland gets hole again? Like there’s a lot of variables in the Eastern Confixers. That’s the one I don’t I mean we just saw be destroy the Pacers after a couple real dud performances. He really struggled against the Lakers 4 for 21 in that game and then he had 39 against and granted the Pacers state. Fool me once. Shame on you. fool me six million times. Like the Sixers, look, they might win where they Oh, they win the championship this year. I’ll be the first one to say, “Hey, I didn’t see that coming.” But like I just I can’t you I They’ve lost any sort of Well, if this happens these other teams, yeah, it’s like, “Oh, man, that stinks.” But for Philadelphia, this is who you’ve been every year. At some point, we just have to stop giving them the benefit of that doubt. Totally fair. I mean, I I think the Knicks I picked them to win the win the East as of today, but a lot can change a lot. That’s a good way to put a lot, but so much can change. All right. I mean, we do have the final on Tuesday. Got two days off here in Vegas before the Spurs Knicks face off. What do you is the key matchup in that game? Oh, it’s it’s got to be um it’s got to be Brunson and uh and whoever’s that match, whether it’s Fox, whether it’s Harper, whether like them being able to contain Jaylen Brunson, Weman is still going to be in a minutes restriction. And I like I don’t obviously him being able to impact the game the way he did last night is certainly on the table, but you know, you think about how many shots Oklahoma City missed last night when they had those opportunities. The Knicks probably aren’t going to make those mistakes, right? You can’t count on that. In other words, of like, oh yeah, they’ll just miss some shots and we’ll be fine. you know, especially you got Carl Anthony Towns, his ability to stretch the floor, bring WBY out like legitimately in a way that Chad and Hartinstein can’t. Now, what what does that mean for the driving lanes for Brunson, Anobi, for Bridges, all those guys? So, to me, it it all starts with neutralizing Brunson because if you can’t get a hold of him, can’t get control of him, you see what happens. he once he gets two feet in the paint, it just shifts everything and it makes everything a lot harder for the Spurs. Um I I think uh I mean obviously you can’t have one Mama come in and just change the impact if you’re the Knicks. So making sure that you’re doing pretty much what Oklahoma City did physical and then the help comes from everywhere and the Knicks have personnel to do that, right? Um, the question is, do they have the personnel to do that when you have Towns and Brunson on the floor at the same time? They they have it, but do they they won’t have it you can’t do it with just three guys on the floor doing it. You got to have at least four kind of. It’ll be interesting to see. I mean, you touched on it if the Spurs have have WBY defend like a Josh Hart. Instead, rather than being guaranteed pulled out to the perimeter by Cat, if they just say, “Okay, we’re going to leave you open Josh Hart.” Granted, they have hot shooting nights. He’s also going to have a lot of cold shooting nights. And if it’s one game to win, I do wonder if that’s at least something we’ll see them try in order to keep Victor near the basket. I I think the problem is Josh moves a lot. Yes. Constantly in motion, screening and cutting and everything and crashing boards and and so it’s not like it’s not like remember uh was it Roersonson for Oklahoma City back? He’s in the corner. All right, whatever. I think it’s the Tony Allen treatment a decade ago. You can’t you can’t do that with with Hart because he’s just so active. I mean, they might have to try it. We’ll see how it goes. Um, you know, maybe the minutes match up with Mitchell Robinson’s out there. There’s a lot of different ways you can do it. The hard part is again with a minutes restriction, you have to make sure like, hey, if we’re going to use him, we’re using him now. Okay, this has to be the optimal strategy. Um, but then at the same time, do we know how harsh that minutes restriction will be? He played 21 minutes on Saturday night. Is it gonna be 25? Is it gonna be 30? I mean, maybe they push him to 30 or I mean, how does it go? Like, does it go last night? They they sat him the entire first quarter. I don’t think any of us expected that. That’s strange. Yeah. Right. But we’ll see how it goes. I it’s I’m happy that we’re in a place now where it seems like in year three and obviously great play has helped for that. But we’re past the this is dumb. Why are we doing this? Nobody cares. It doesn’t matter conversation about the NBA Cup and now we’re we’re out here like oh what what are what are the the test moves the test match that’s going to happen between Mike Brown and Mark Dagnold in I mean Mark Dag. Wow, look at me. So, I mean, we had OKC in our mind for hours. Wrote the headline weeks ago, right? The Mike Brown and and Mitch Johnson. It it’s it’s cool to be to be here. I I walked out of that building last night on this weird high. I I can’t lie. I haven’t felt in December in a long time. And um I’m really excited for Tuesday night. I I’m just I just hope everyone’s healthy. We don’t have any. Every time Wimby fell, man, it’s I know. It is always scary. It is. But I feel the same way. But I was here year one. Yeah. Um and you know, I think it was definitely good energy. I mean, the Lakers were there that year and you know, LA so close to Vegas, but I think this year now I missed last year. I think now year three, you saw Lakers beat the Pacers, Bucks beat the Thunder last year, and now obviously we’ll see what happens between the Spurs and the Knicks. And I it feels like a good energy and the games feel competitive in a way. I think the the only issue right now for the NBA is just, you know, the confusion for fans when games are on certain nights. I think they need to have like two weeks of the season or three weeks three weeks of the season where every game is a cup game and it leads straight into it and it’s like all part of a now you’re messing with the money cuz now then Amazon’s like we love that we’ll have every single game. No, you know, it’s it year I’ll tell you what year one it felt it felt preuncter in the way that like well dad says I have to care about that’s I mean you know Lakers won it and LeBron you know he he carries himself like a statesman whatever but like you didn’t get that sense of exuberant joy right last year better with the Pacers because Hallebertton and and there was this thing that like they come off the conference finals appearance the year before and it’s like oh wow this is kind of like the coming out party and the announcement or whatever and then obviously you also had the a little bit of friction pieces and bucks that it’s been brewing this year it’s like everyone here was like you could tell they wanted for sure I was I did my radio show with Jason Jackson this morning he said the locker room in Miami after they lost to Orlando you know they big they blew that big lead it felt like a playoff loss they were down like this was a legitimate blow. They were looking forward to it. You know, even I remember the the sounds of the game, Spo in the middle like, “Were you guys trying to go to Vegas or not?” Basically, he’s imploring the guys. Um, so it’s gotten to a point now where I think the critical mass of the players clearly care, the fans seem to be in it, and we have a broadcast partner who’s like, “This is their baby.” So they’re giving it the love and attention and that’s that’s half the battle sometimes. If the people on TV say this matters then it matters. If you have a panel of people say I don’t know why we’re doing this and like oh just another regular season game. This is awesome. Like these two teams want this. This is this is important. This is real. Like I said look at how Oklahoma City acted at the end of that game. They felt like Caruso got fouled on that last play. They were pissed. They were pissed. It wasn’t just cuz oh our streak got broken or oh we lost a game. It’s because they want to play for this this cup. It means something. I I I feel I feel like it’s growing that the that there’s something here that the NBA has and over the course of time it’s going to continue growing and hopefully we gain an importance in the years to come. I mean like no matter what happens this year, the Spurs or the Knicks if they obviously you want to win the NBA finals, but especially for a young team like the Spurs, you feel like you accomplish something if you do win this cup. This is this is how you This is kind of like the you know the kids when they sell them on the door frame and put the line like oh look how much I’ve grown. Like that that’s that’s great. That’s a version of this for for for young teams. The other part of this I think it’s really important like if the Spurs win obviously feels like based on last night he’d probably be MVP. When kids who are nine or 10 years old now, a decade later playing in the NBA and they look at the history of NBA Cup MVPs like LeBron won the first one, Giannis won the second one, and then WMY won the third one. And it’s like, this is something important. This if you want to be thought of one of the greats, you got to have one of these in your in your trophy case, right? As opposed to kind of like, oh, oh, you guys going to hang a banner? Are you going to do parade? Like that’s how we were year one. But over time, you look back, you’re like, “Yeah, no, the great players win this. The great teams win this.” Right. Absolutely. And I think that’s also part of cementing it as a part of the culture in a way that people could not envision a couple years ago. I say it all the time on the pod, like it’s clearly not going to happen this year, but there will be a day that a team wins the NBA Cup, has the best regular season record, and they win the NBA finals. I don’t know when it will happen. It’s not happening this year. The year where it felt like a team a team would do it in OKC. To be fair, maybe OKC has a collapse towards the end. Maybe the Spurs go on a massive run. You never know. Or the Knicks go on a massive run. You never know. But ultimately, I think the Spurs I’m going to pick them to win this game. I think WB has another massive game. I’m picking the Spurs to beat the Knicks. What’s your prediction? Let me ask you a question before we get to that. What do you think the crowd’s going to look like? Because the first game I I look there are Knicks fans everywhere. Yes. Clearly, it’s going to be a Knicks partisan crowd. Wasn’t as partisan as I would imagine. I would say probably 6040 Knicks fans and that’s for if I take the entire population it’s probably even smaller percentage because they’re just a bunch of a not apathetic but just kind of sure you know agnostic fans and just people there because they’re in Vegas and they want to go to the NBA Cup game. That Spurs game that was a Spurs crowd. Yeah, that was a Spay got fouled and they started booing I was like oh [ __ ] like this is this ain’t no Oh yeah, it’s it’s a I’d say like 75 25. There’s a good amount of OKC fans, but it was a lot more Spurs. It was not a neutral site. It was not a neutral site. And so I’m curious how much of that also was Wei fans, of course, not just Spurs fans who flew in from San, but like kids here and they love anybody, right? Yes. I I’m curious to see what wins out. Is it the the the novelty of Victor Wmanyaman? the attention he draws or is it the number one media market and with has expats all over the country? What’s that crowd going to look like Tuesday night? I’m really interested on that. Uh as far as a winner, I think the Knicks win it. Okay. I think the Knicks win it. I I just think they have a lot more clarity of how they want to play than the Spurs do. It worked last night. But there there are parts of this where we’re like, you know, again, WBY sat that first time after he brought brought him back and then that lead went up to 16. I was like, here we go. Yeah. Like it was nice while it lasted. So, um I think the Knicks have more clarity and I think um there’s some level of like they they want to prove it. The Knicks have a thing about them. We’re all like, “Come on, it’s the Knicks.” they’ll mess it up. And so I think there’s going to be a level of kind of desire there that’ll that’ll fuel them. I’m fired up. I mean, thank you so much for taking time out of your day. Thank you, dude. All right, let’s talk about some of the latest news around the NBA. Joining me from Amazon and the association, Chris Haynes, my guy KC, what’s going on, man? I’m doing great, man. Just here in Vegas. You had a little interview with Rachel Nichols uh the other day. Made a little bit of news about Giannis under the Koopa. He said he would quote would like to have some sun in a big market on a team where he can compete for a championship. Is that kind of a little hint at what the list might look like for Giannis? Uh I I’m just I’m going based off of the conversations I’ve had with them in the past where you know he wouldn’t mind seeing some sun, but I don’t think that’s the only uh qualification. You know, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t I would What does it rank? Is it below big market or above big market? I think that would probably be above big. Yeah. Okay. So, that could be a good thing. I mean, does San Antonio count as sunny? It’s Texas. Got the heat. Yeah. Does that count? Are we talking beach? I think that would count. I don’t know that San Antonio has that level of interest right now like they might have had in the past. So, it remains to be seen because Giannis hasn’t requested a trade. He hasn’t said he wants to go anywhere. But what he has said and what he has stated, you know, he’s had multiple meetings with the team over the past offseason, you know, you know, trying to explain to them what he wants to do. He wants to win. He wants to win more rings. He’s not happy with one. He wants to be surrounded with a roster that has a legitimate chance to compete. So, the organization understands that they they get they did that. That’s why they felt like waving and stretching Damen Lillard, you know, in order to sign Miles Turner. they felt like that was a way, especially in the Eastern Conference, that was a way that was a move that they can make to try to keep them in contention. Um, you can make the case though with the way the Bucks have started off, right? If this is going to be a downward year anyway, you could make the case like, well, you might as well just waited for Dame, you know, to finish um the the the year of um um his recovery period, his recovery period, and then come back, you know, come back stronger for next season. But those are tough decisions the Bucks front office had to make. So this is where we are. Why doesn’t Giannis just rip the band-aid off? It feels like a breakup right now and he’s like waiting for them to say, “Oh, we’re going to end it. We’re going to end it instead of him just making the decision himself.” What’s going on there? Why? It was funny. I saw uh Kendrick Perkins uh had had his remarks. He called Yiannis a coward and said he needs to come out and say something. And Yiannis got actually got into the the comment section and uh had some words to say. It was it was funny. But uh I didn’t see that. What did y’all say to him? It was something along the lines of, “Oh, Bobby Porters, Bobby Porters had a remark in the comment section of the Road Tripping podcast. I believe it was on IG and Bobby Porter said, “Hey, people talk I guess he said something like people talking and I guess there’s still tension in our locker room too, you know, basically I guess trying to shy to report.” And then Giannis responded back like laughing and saying, “Bobby, you think this is going to be us in a few years like having our own show just talking trash?” So, I mean, he’s having fun with it. But, you know, I don’t know what he’s going to do or how he’s going to handle things. But, you know, just from the conversation I had with him a week ago, a week or so ago, he said he’s not comfortable with all this all this uh you know, just all the rumors and everything that’s that’s flying out there. He brought it on though. He claims it’s not him. He claims, you know, he says it’s not him. He said he can’t speak to How can he claim that when you’re having conversations without with him? You’re like he’s talking with the team. How can he claim that? Well, a lot of those conversations for and I would say most of those conversations are his represent, you know, representatives. So, it’s with the camp. Yeah. Yeah. A lot. So, not necessarily him. Okay. And so, he told me he’s like, “Look, I can’t control what the front office decides to do. I can’t control what my repres, you know, representation does. See, Chris, like you saying all this just makes me feel like it’s like him avoiding accountability and like making about everybody else. I think what he’s going to I think what he’s doing and the the position he’s taken is that, you know, he’s going to give his all when he’s out on the basketball court. And so he feels like if he’s doing what he does on the court, like everything else will play out. It should play out in the right way. And if he’s doing everything on the court and he’s living up to his end, but the team still isn’t up to par, man, you know, eventually he will have to say something, you know, directly to front office or maybe maybe even saying something publicly or the Bucks ultimately could just say, you know what, we are on a downward trajectory here. We’re just going to go get the best off. I think that and that’s what rival teams, that’s what they’re hoping for. the Bucks have just ripped the band-aid off themselves because obviously Giannis doesn’t want, you know, he’s he’s built a lot of, you know, he grew up in Milwaukee, like that’s that’s his home, right? He he loves that place. So, I don’t think he wants to do anything that’s going to alienate, you know, himself with that city and that community. So, I I think most people hope that the Bucks will come to the realization like, hey, maybe we need to do, you know, do, you know, do something right for him, but as well help us out in the future. I mean, here’s the thing. Like, he could he could come out like publicly, make a post, whatever, and say, “I want to be traded.” And nobody I don’t think anybody in Milwaukee would look down upon him. They would say, “Thank you. You brought us the best years of our franchise history.” I disagree, KC. I disagree. And the reason why I disagree cuz you know the recent uh would you have made that same statement before Dame requested his trade? He didn’t win a championship though. He didn’t win a championship. But would you have said that, okay, Dame has spent nine years here, he’s tried, you know, they they didn’t they didn’t fill the roster enough where they would be competitive in the, you know, in the Western Conference. Nobody’s going to blame him if he wants to leave and go elsewhere. Would you have made that same case? Or did you make that same case? I I think let’s go back. Let’s go back to his team. Did you make that with Dean? I mean, yeah, I did feel like he should just be able to go. I But I but I felt that way as well. Yeah. And the only reason I bring that up, I felt that way as well. But then there was a out outcry of negative uh criticism that came from the Portland fan base. Isn’t the negativity always louder though? It’s just the truth online. That’s it is. But you know, I was even, you know, cuz it was, you know, I read, you know, I check in with Twitter and, you know, the fan bases to see what, you know, just just kind of see what the public sentiment is, right, of each each market. And you know, when the Blazers were struggling and Dame was still giving you 30 or 40, you know, a game, I would see um fans, Portland fans saying, “Man, Dame should leave. He should leave.” You know, they Portland’s not doing enough. Yeah. Go elsewhere. Portland’s not doing enough. And these are Blazer fans. Yeah. And so I’m like, some Bucks fans. Yeah. Which exactly That’s true. And then so and then when it happened, it was those same fans that, you know, that that killed them. You said you wanted to be here. you said you were loyal to the soil, you know, so it it you know, again, so to your point, I do agree with you like he should be able to Giannis be able to say what he wants to do and if that’s what he wants to do, but I there would be a public um local um outcry of negative press that comes from that. I think it fades away. It does. It fades away ultimately. I mean of you did mention to Rachel in that interview, Knicks, Heat, Warriors, Spurs, Wolves as teams that have always liked Giannis. I mean obviously everybody likes Giannis in their own way. Are the Warriors the team that would want Giannis the most? Rachel Rachel came with a pretty good she came I think the way the question she asked me is what TE’s are Giannis interested in. She asked you for the list. She wanted the list. I love Rachel, man. So some bill you sidestep that to go the other way. Well, here are the teams that like Giannis. That’s why I’m asking you here. Are the Warriors the team that would most want Giannis? Yeah. No, Warriors are a team. No, Warriors are a team. The Linkups have always wanted him. Yeah. Yeah. The Warriors are they’re definitely a team. Um, you know, there there was a time I was covering the Warriors back in the day when Stephen Curry and Giannis, they were um communicating quite a bit. And uh, you know, Steph would have fun with the media. There would be times where Steph and Giannis, they’ll be talking, they’ll have their hands over their mouths and talking. And I think one time we asked Steph, you know, about that conversation and, you know, he said something funny, but it was kind of like the uh to add fire to the flames. He was just, you know, just tell them how good the Bay Area is, something like, you know, he’s just always playing. That’s that’s how Steph is. But there’s always been um interest um from the Bay Area as it pertains to to Giannis. Obviously, his uh his wife, his family, they’re from Fresno, which is, you know, that’s my cousin. Those are my cousins. And so, um, you know, you had that California dynamic there. Uh you know, again, it’s going to be, you know, this past summer was all about the Knicks. It was the Knicks over the summer. Um, they had the there there was interest from both sides. The Bucks do not want, let me just make this clear. The Bucks do not want to part with Giannis. They’re doing everything that they can to try to, you know, to make them happy to fill the roster that would be suitable. So, uh, it it’s really going to come down to whether their hands are forced or if the Bucks are like, “Okay, let’s do right by you. Let’s see what we can do.” That would benefit both sides. Why doesn’t Stephen Curry just make some noise with that front office demanding more additions demanding the team improve around him because he’s still so amazing, but the pieces around him, especially the youth, have not developed in the way they needed. Why doesn’t he make some noise in the front office making demands? It’s never been his MO. just never been his MO. Um, shouldn’t he though at this stage of his career? I mean, he still has opportunities to build win build his legacy, win more titles. Yeah. I mean, but it’s not like the Warriors have been in inactive. You know, they did acquire Jimmy Butler last season. So, 16 point per game player at this point. 16 point. Yeah. 12 shots. Yeah. Well, I think playoff Jimmy is better than the 16 points last 11 games. His last 11 games in the postseason. But, you know, you know what you’re going to get from Jimmy and Chris. They’re quite I mean I can tell you’re not a big Jimmy fan right now this at this stage of his career. Uh but all you can go off of is um the track record, right? When postseason comes, Jimmy does tend to show up and you know, he had to get acclimated to the to the Golden State Warriors system. And so uh I mean, but you know, Golden State, they’ve always been out there browsing and trying to see if they can make moves. But to your point about Steph, he’s never been just never been that type of guy. You know, um you know, you can make the case like why, you know, why isn’t he that right now, especially at this stage of his career? You could argue he has maybe a few years left of his prime. That’s crazy. I believe he’s 37. We’re talking about a few years left of his prime. But, you know, I don’t know. But the Warriors, they will. I mean, look, they got Kaminga. It seems like it seems like something’s going to have to happen. I would be shocked if something didn’t happen with him. It’s just a matter of what. Yeah. I mean, in order to get a Giannis, you either have to give up Jimmy Butler or you have to give up Kaminga plus Draymond. Is that something the Warriors would actually do is trade Draymond? that I don’t know. That’s tough because you know there was a few years back where I actually thought um there might be a scenario where the Golden State Warriors trade Draymond. This was years back. This is when uh before they kind of revamped themselves and and got another title. This is when he was a bit out of shape before shape. I was here in Detroit back then. Yes. Um back home for him. Yeah. I was hearing that back then, but really it’s been radio silence since then. So I mean that would be a bold move. That would be a bold move. Will they improve their roster? Probably. So, but on paper. Yeah. On paper. But like he is their heartbeat. He is their identity. And the def the defensive u he’s still a defensive stud, man. He You saw what he did against Victor two weeks ago or two weeks ago, whatever it was, back toback games. He’s unbelievable. I He’s one of the best defensive players I’ve seen. Right. I’ve covered I cover my first year covering the Warriors um as a beat rider. It was the first the first year was when Draymond won that the defense player of the year award and he was guarding AD isolation Giannis isolation like he was guarding some of the main guys and holding them well below switch every position but he’s a guy that you can’t look at the stats to dictate if he’s a good player on the side. He does so much for that team. He’s one of the best I’ve seen. I mean, I think Draymond’s one of those types of guys many many decades from now, a different generation of NBA fans that like, “This guy made the Hall of Fame.” Like, “No, no, no. Let me explain to you something.” Yeah, there’s context. Yeah, there there’s there’s definitely context. You know, you got to explain. That’s our job. But, you know, so often now now today in our society, we don’t we don’t look for for context and to look deeper into situation. But, for him, you would definitely have to. For sure. I mean, I think the Warriors, I mean, I would put any of those guys on the table for an opportunity to get Giannis, but I prefer to go down the the Butler path to go route. You want to get Butler out there? It’s not that I want to get him out of there. It’s because Draymond Green is the is the is part of the fabric of that team. That’s why it’s not as Jimmy, it’s more about like I just don’t think that team would have anywhere near the same defensive ability without Draymond Green. I agree. And so I would think, look, for Milwaukee, you got to expand uh a potential trade package out because I don’t think Milwaukee would it would have to be a three-way. Milwaukee would want to like a Phoenix or somewhere else, something like that. Milwaukee, they want young talent. Yes. And they want some draft capital. So that that would that does in some ways put the Warriors at a disadvantage when you think about the Spurs or the Rockets, like teams that in theory could go after, hey, Giannis. I mean, I think it went like December 15th is where a lot of players become trade eligible. So, this is really where conversations start to happen with a lot of teams. We got news uh today that Evol will be out two to four weeks with a calf strain. The Cavs are 15-11. They’re stumbling to start this season. Are the Cavs a team that you’re hearing could be trying to make moves or are they going to stick with what they got and try to build it out with this roster? They did have a lot of success last year. Yeah, I heard the moves that they will try to make will be along the edges. I haven’t heard any core pieces. Again, that’s what I heard as of right now. No core pieces. Okay, that makes total sense for them. I mean, upgrade from like Alonzo Ball spot somewhere like that. Yeah. Uh what about the Atlanta Hawks? KP out now two weeks. The Pots issue continues to be a deal for him. I don’t think that’s ever going to go away based off what I’ve learned about about that disorder he has. Pots. Trey’s back soon. What are the expectations for the Hawks on the end of the month? I mean, he will tra So Trey has an opportunity to be a free agent this coming up summer, I believe. Can he fact check me on? That’s true. He does. I I’ll think he has a player option maybe, but next season. Trey Young next season. He has I believe it is a player option. Just pulling it up as we talk. But yeah, I think it’s a player option for Trey. Yeah. So, he has potential to be unrestricted free agent this coming up summer. Atlanta Hawks playing some pretty good ball. They had a nice stretch there where they one of the hottest teams in the league, right? Um, I would say this is probably the most pivotal season for Trey, how he comes back, how he works his way back in with them because the Atlanta Hawks have gotten a a sense, they’ve gotten a feel of what this team is capable of doing without him, right? So, does Trey make them better or does Trey hinder them from reaching that next step? So, that’s why I say it’s a very, very pivotal season for Trey. Uh, with that being said, I haven’t heard anything concrete that would suggest that Trey will be moved in season. So, I I think his his situation as of right now, as of what I’m hearing now, I think his season I mean, his situation will be decided ultimately this coming up off seasonason. I mean, there’s also just not a lot of teams that need a point guard. That’s just the reality of it. There’s not. I remember like, you know, I was hearing, you know, a few years ago, I was hearing like I would have bet a few years ago that Trey would end up with the San Antonio Spurs. had a feeling you were going to say that. Had a feeling. That’s what I was hearing. Then they went Fox instead. And so that left uh that left Trey without a I’m not going to say left Trey without, but I just didn’t hear any other teams out there that were zeroing zero. Orlando I heard rumblings about a couple years ago too or maybe last year. What team was this? Orlando. Orlando. I don’t think I’ve heard Orlando. But yeah, make makes sense. Point guard like it’s it’s going to be tough. Yeah, the market is tough now. The market is tough. there’s not a lot of um teams out there in need of of a point guard. And so again, like you know, even how he comes back and again how he meshes is going to have a big say on you know what teams may have interest moving forward like okay they say all right he can play alongside other guys and let them handle the ball. Okay, maybe his then maybe his stock or his value or the interest increases to him. So you know that’s what I want to see. Yeah. I mean, I think with Atlanta, like assuming Trey Trades are off the table, I still think they’re an interesting team to kind of upgrade from that Porzingis spot. He’s got the big expiring salary. If you can’t trust him to stay on the floor, like why wouldn’t the Hawks be a team that’s at least at least making a call to the Mavericks about Anthony Davis? Yeah. I mean, isn’t that what uh what did Rich Paul in his new podcast with uh Max Kellerman? He hinted about Jaylen Johnson. That was Jaylen Johnson in Milwaukee. That was a Yiannis. That’s right. That’s right. Yeah, cuz Jaylen Johnson being from Wisconsin as well. Yeah, that’s right. So, I’m sure that was part of it. But I but I think the same the same logic of the the Hawks going for a big fish like Giannis under the Kmpo. I think it similarly applies about a a guy like Anthony Davis as well, especially if you know you’re giving up Porzingis and other pieces to and assets of course to go get there. It’s a lower cost than going to get Yiannis. You’re not giving up Jaylen Johnson to get Anthony Davis. Yeah. But I think someone like that does raise their ceiling and be a great fit with Trey Young as well. Mhm. That’s something I’d go for. I hear you. But, you know, there’s the the scare factor of acquiring AD. You know, just never know if he’s going to stay healthy. The injury concerns. I don’t know if they want to have a another Chrisaps, you know, situation. So, that’s the that’s the concern. Understandably. So, the Pistons are 20 and five, best team in the East so far this season. Are they really a team that could have interest in Anthony Davis as has been rumored? I think so. Yeah, I think so. Um, when you talk about a team like Atlanta, right, acquiring AD, you know, there’s cons, I believe there’s concern there because you will depend on AD for a lot. You would depend on him a lot. Now, he goes into Detroit. This is a team that is clicking on all center. This is it’s very similar. this I’m I’m not I’m not saying it’s the exact equivalent but remember years ago when um Detroit they were playing well looking good then they acquired Rasheed Wallace and Rasheed wasn’t the Rasheed of old but he was still pretty good and you didn’t have to ask him to do too much right he was just able to come and compliment not even comp he did elevate elevate the team him and Ben Wallace yeah had Ben Wallace But you had Yeah, you had a break. So I that’s kind of how I look at AD if AD and the Detroit uh move worked out, right? You got Cade over there, you got Durham over there in the back court. You I mean, excuse me, in in the um in the front court. Um my in the paint, and then you add AD, and I think that would be the equivalent of of Rasheed. Now, I’m not saying they will go on win the championship, but I’m saying you’re not going to ask AD. You’re not going to asking him to give you close to 30 points a game. So just ask him to be a really good piece if he misses games, right? You know, Detroit can win without him. But if he’s there, I definitely think he enhances that squad. Totally makes sense. And I think we also saw that like one of the guys that have to give up in a trade to go get him is Tobias Harris with his big expiring salary. It’ have to be something like Tobias Harris, Caris Levert, and then they have a number of guys, Jaden Ivy type, maybe it would have to be Osar Thompson, but what regardless of that other piece to get there financially, the the fact they were so great early this season with that Isaiah Stewart, Jaylen Duran front court, the two bigs, I’d like to see them double down. I mean, the East is so open and we don’t know if Tatum’s going to come back. Like the Knicks, they have a chance to win the NBA Cup, but we’ll see what they look like come April and May. the Pistons, the window is open. And if you get if you get in the finals, like you never you never know what can happen. The Pacers just went to a game seven with the the Thunder in the finals and they very well could have won it. You don’t know what can happen. You know what can happen and you don’t know the matchups you get, right? Cuz you automatically assume, okay, all right, the top se was last year, the Cleveland Cavaliers, right? Had the best record in the East. They they flame out in the first round, then all of a sudden the seedings are screwed up, right? You actually have a path, right? And so, you know, that’s what you got to do. fan. I I of all the like crazy potential deals I’ve heard associated with Anthony Davis, Detroit to me makes the most sense. That’s why I’m like if they can pull that off, I can see something beneficial out of that. Two of the names you hear a lot in trade conversations with people around the league is Trey Murphy and Herb Jones from the Pelicans. The Pelicans are terrible this year. I mean, they don’t they don’t even trade anybody to be worse and they don’t have their own pick, so they don’t have incentive to be worse anyway. So, those are kind of the names you you hear for those teams. Yeah. Uh, you said Trey Trey Murphy with Golden State, Lakers with Herb Jones. Yeah, those have been those have been those are calls that Golden State and the Lakers have made to New Orleans about those players. There have been other teams as well. Um, Trey off the bat. It was one more team on Trey I heard. Can’t think of off top of my head. But yeah, those are teams. Yeah, those are hot. Those are definitely hot commod type players right now. West team for Trey Murphy. I think both West teams. Yeah, I’m just trying to think who would make sense off the top of my head. Spurs could be interesting. Uh Wolves probably don’t have the assets. That makes sense. I can’t. Not the Rockets. No, it wasn’t the Rockets. Not the Spurs. No, not the Wolves. No, it wasn’t the Wolves. Suns? No, that’s not they’re not going that not going that path right now. I think both of those guys are definitely pieces that could help round out the uh championship hopeful team for sure. But with New Orleans, of course, being as bad as they are, there’s no reason to get worse. And if you view those guys as keepers long term, Yeah. I don’t I don’t think I don’t Yeah, I I don’t Well, listen, this is Joe Dar’s first year. you know that, you know, he’s going to construct a roster uh that he can call his own his own. So, I don’t think he’s tied in, you know, even, you know, Zion, right? So, he’s I I wouldn’t say he’s tied in with any player. He’s not married to anybody right now. Just Derek Queen and Jeremiah those rookies. Yeah. And so, well, everybody else, they’re under an evaluation um process and and you know, let the chips fall they may. It seems like the Mavericks could go in either direction, adding, subtracting. What’s your sense of what the preferred path is for the MA Mavericks? My sense is subtraction. That’s my sense. You know, I remember it began a year when um the Mavericks were starting Cooper Flag at the the point guard position, right? So, I called Kid. I was like, “Kid, you know, he’s getting a lot of flack for it.” I said, “Kid, why are you I said, “What’s up? Can you explain his rationale? I’m, you know, I’m going on TV. I would like to explain. He said, it’s simple. He said, we’re in a rare, unique situation where we’re trying to compete now for a championship and we have to develop our number one pick, right? He said, so if I have to develop this prospect, I want to put him at the point guard role where he have to learn different schemes, he have to learn the movement, learn the plays. is as a point guard, you got to know where everybody’s at on the floor at the all time as well as we, you know, help develop his all-around ball handling game, decision- making, right? He said he’s not going to learn all of that being at his regular small forward position, right? He said, so it’s rare that you have a situation where we’re trying to win now, but we have to develop this guy. He said then, you know, he pointed to he did the same thing with Giannis when he was in Milwaukee, started him at the point guard position, and now we, you know, Giannis is one of the most allaround best all-around players we have. So I’m like, “Okay, I got it from that standpoint.” But it was clear like during that process, it was just it was just tough. It was just tough. You’re trying to win now. You’re trying to assert this rookie. You’re trying to force feed him into, you know, certain looks to get him some action to run. It it it was conflicted. It’s that’s basically what it was. And so I I I don’t think it’s best like they’re injuryprone right now. They got guys in and out. I think you got to pull the band-aid off and and start over. Start start with coup. Speaking about Jason Kidd, one of the things I’ve heard from multiple sources is that Kid is sort of eyeing a move to the front office and hire someone else’s head coach. Is that true? I’ve heard that rumor. I don’t know if it’s true or not. I have heard that rumor. Wasn’t he um didn’t he have a dual role before? Did he he didn’t have the Milwaukee? He had a bit of power, but he never had he had some say power. And I think what I’ve heard is like he wants to follow kind of the Brad Stevens path, that type of transition, go from the coaching from the bench to the front office and then hire someone else. Okay. Yeah, I haven’t talked to him about that, but no, I wouldn’t I’ve heard that. And it seems like anything that would happen wouldn’t be till next summer anyway. Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised, but no, I haven’t heard that. I couldn’t confirm it in that. Last thought on my mind is the Clippers, as bad as they are, obviously they don’t have their own picks until 2030. Is there still any chance we see the Clippers as a team that decides to be sellers, get some type of assets for James Harden, Kawhi Leonard, even a Zubats? To be honest, Kelsey, I don’t know. I don’t know. I So 15th is coming up. They have to, you know, Chris Paul, they have to I think they will try to trade him. I don’t know how I don’t know how easy that will be. Um, who wants a 40 plus year old Yeah. point guard at this point? It’s like like we talked about with Trey, different context. Not a lot of teams need a point guard. Yeah. I I I don’t know. I don’t know. It It will be tough. You know, we tal you know, it sounds good trying to offload Kawawaii, but even, you know, he wouldn’t even be a easy um transaction. So, it it it’s tough. I I I I don’t have a pulse on that right now. I like the fact we basically had the same outfit on. I was about to say, man, you must have saw me coming out the hotel, man, and you found out I was looking good. You like, let me go say, man, you looking all right, man. Look at us. You You wearing it right, man. You wearing it right, man. You wearing it right, Chris. You’re doing great stuff with Amazon Prime. You’re on the the association on NBA TV. How’s the Amazon stuff going, man? You must have fun with it, right? Hey, man. That that studio, never seen anything like it. I’ve been in many TV studios, man. That is one hell of a setup, man. I’ I’m impressed every time I go. Um, the crew is great. Blake, Steve, UD, Nash, um, I mentioned Taylor Oh, Taylor, you know, that’s my, you know, been that’s been my colleague for a minute back in our TNT days. But this, man, I’m having a ball, man. They’re doing a really good job. I really, I really think they have the best U studio show. I think they have a unique blend of basketball analysis and, you know, they’re entertaining. I think uh people are getting to see Durk’s personality a little bit more and Blake has a quirky personality and so uh I think it’s a real good mix. So, I’m I’m you know, I’m proud to be a part of it and it’s going to keep growing. I mean, I think chemistry like with any new show or whatever, it’s like it’s going to keep getting better and better over time. No, they’re they’re really good. I’ve been impressed. Especially, you know, UD Donis Helm, man, he’s um he’s putting it down, man. I I could see UD becoming a coach would be a head coach. Like he’s that intelligent about the X’s and O’s of this game. Like I think people are if they haven’t been checking in already, they should definitely check it out and and I think they’ll be I think they’ll be impressed. I mean we see kind of the broadcaster to to coach uh we’ve seen that. So who knows broadcast podcaster to the co. Yeah, we it’s it’s there. The pathway is there. Definitely there. Well, Chris, thank you so much for joining us today. I appreciate you, man. No problem.

Kevin O’Connor is joined by Amin Elhassan to recap the San Antonio Spurs ending the Oklahoma City Thunder’s winning streak in their electric NBA Cup semifinal victory. They break down Victor Wembanyama’s immediate defensive impact and the Spurs’ formula for success against OKC. Should the Spurs be aggressive with trades or stick with their young roster?

Next, the duo breaks down the keys to the New York Knicks’ NBA Cup semifinal win over the Orlando Magic. They discuss Jalen Brunson’s showstopping 40-piece, why Paolo Banchero isn’t fitting in with the Magic and whether Jamahl Mosley is the best fit for the Magic’s head coaching role. Are we overthinking the New York Knicks?

Plus, they give their final picks for who will win the NBA Cup Finals. Who does Wemby defend? Can KAT pull Wemby out of the paint? How will the NBA Cup MVP title impact the legacy of the greats?

Later, Chris Haynes joins the show, giving the latest news, including potential landing spots for Giannis, what moves the Warriors need to make and whether the Clippers should trade James Harden or Kawhi Leonard?

————————————————————————————————————————–

0:00 – Intro
1:04 – Spurs beat Thunder in NBA Cup semis
16:24 – Should Spurs or Thunder trade for Giannis?
27:12 – Knicks beat Magic in NBA Cup semis
41:37 – NBA Cup Final preview
53:01 – Giannis trade rumors with Chris Haynes
1:07:34 – What is Trae Young’s future with Atlanta? 
1:16:28 – Should Mavericks make a trade?
1:19:06 – Will Clippers trade Kawhi Leonard or James Harden? 

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