Evan Says Joe Schoen Can’t Stay: Giants, Jaxson Dart & the No. 1 Pick

Evan Says Joe Schoen Can’t Stay: Giants, Jaxson Dart & the No. 1 Pick

Welcome to another Monday where we can laugh about how bad our football teams are. Just another waste of a Sunday afternoon. How you doing? It's Evan and Tiki on the fan for the next 4 and 1/2 hours. Busy show. The great Joe Beningo will join us at 4:00. We'll jump into the top 10 of 25 and 25. of the most memorable New York sports moments of the year that was and our reaction to the Mets making the move of signing Jorge Palano and why I do not believe Michael King will be a New York Yankee. But there are some things I learned watching the New York Jets and the New York Giants. And one of the things I learned, Tiki, may seem obvious to many people listening, but I feel stronger about it today at 202 on December 15th. As the Giants lost to the Washington Commanders, and there were all sorts of bad, disgusting things that would bother a Giant fan, I come away even more reinforced in my opinion that Joe Shane cannot return. And I will tell you why very quickly. >> Go ahead. >> The Giants may pick number one. It is absolutely on the table that they're going to have the number one overall pick. And you have an opinion about Jackson Dart versus drafting a quarterback. I have an opinion on Jackson Dart versus drafting a quarterback. But I would want the most independent eyes to make a decision that big. And I don't believe someone who's been here for a few years, including the person that drafted Jackson Dart, can make that fair decision. Because I know that sounded crazy a month ago when I brought it up for the first time. Would you trade Dart and take a quarterback? If you're picking number one overall and your team sucks yet again, everything needs to be on the table. And if everything's on the table, we need independent eyes to make as big of a decision as trading the number one overall pick or using it to select a quarterback and moving off of Jackson Dart. So, I'm telling you, Tee, forget the grading. I understand it. It's not all Shane's fault. This is one of the biggest decisions a franchise can make and I need someone else making the call. >> You know, I hear what you're saying, but there's there's no way that I'm ready to move off of Jackson Dart. There's not a chance that Fh Fernando Mendoza or Diego Pavia or any of these quarterbacks, Ty Simpson or whoever it may be coming out in this year's draft to me is going to be better than Jackson Dart. I I know that Jackson Dart has the it he has the leadership qualities. he has the the skill set, the arm talent, all those things that you talk about in order to be a star in this league. So, I hear what you're saying, but that's not something that is even crossing my mind at this point. So, with all due respect to making the decision at number one, I think that the Giants have so much more that they need to do other than quarterback that it's not even a question what the the current or future general manager is going to need to do. >> But, but you know what? Here's the problem. That answer is the problem. Te, you're not even thinking about it. And I don't blame you. I'm not mad at you for thinking that way because I bet you Sean's going to say the same thing and Tommy's going to say the same thing. And I get it. I love Jackson Dart. I'm in love with him. I'm as in love with him as you are. But when you are picking number one, which is again on the table for the first time in 60 years, it's not like picking number one overall is a common thing. They haven't done it since 1965. You almost need the most independent eyes. And I think that you, Shawn, Tommy, and most Giant fans aren't independent because you're in love, just like I'm not either. >> Okay. But Evan, what do you think is going to happen? You think that Joe Shane's going to make a bad decision on who to take number one or let's say they move back to number six, right? They they they move back and they he's going to make a bad decision. He's not picking a quarterback. It's almost I don't want to say it's it's it it protects them, but it does protect them because you're not trying to pick your franchise most important player. You know what I mean? It's different if you're picking the quarterback in this year's draft and you screw up and end up taking Tai Simpson instead of Fernando Mendoza and all of a sudden you get criticized or crucified because you made the wrong QB pick. I I don't see that as the issue going into this draft following this disastrous season that the Giants are currently going through. The the issue is it's not even going to be considered. That's the issue. The issue is look, if you ask me, I want to make it very clear. If you said, "All right, Evan, I if the hell out of this thing, what would you do if you're picking number one overall?" I agree with you. I'd probably trade the pick. I'm saying you have a GM that's going to have a biased answer on this because he drafted Jackson Dart himself. And I think that you need a good football man as head coach, as GM, to look fairly and without emotion at Jackson Dart, at the quarterback pieces that are available via the draft. Obviously, Fernando Mendoza is the guy with the most attention and make the best decision for the franchise moving forward. Cuz I remember back in 2020 after Daniel Jones had a good rookie season. And yes, it was a malign draft pick, but I think his success that year, not team success, but the individual success and potential of Daniel Jones led Giant fans to say, "Okay, I think we have our guy." And did they consider with as high of a pick as they had moving off of Daniel and drafting Justin Herbert? Did they? And I think that if you had not Dave Gtlman making the decision, you know, the guy who drafted Daniel Jones, the decision could have been different. And I think when you go through the combine and you go through everything else, when you're picking number one overall and you're coming off a year in which maybe you win two games, you have to look at every possibility. And I think that the Giant fan, most Giant fans, not all, and Joe Shane are not going to look at every possibility. THEY'RE GOING TO SIMPLY SAY, "DART'S OUR GUY. LET'S JUST TRADE the pick." Do you think that's responsible? Well, I I know what you're getting at, but to me, this is not a question about quarterback in indecisiveness with Jackson Dart going forward. I think there's only room for him to grow. Now, there are some stats that are I don't just call him disconcerting, like balls down the field over 10 yards, he's one of the worst in the NFL. Part of that's just because guys like Darius Leightton and Theo Johnson have had issues with drops all season long. But it there is nothing that worries me currently about Jackson Dart other than what we've already talked about with him. That is taking too many shots. I mean, he got removed unnecessarily and ridiculously from the game yesterday after getting his neck bent out of shape, but and while it didn't result in a concussion, he did miss two downs. Jameus Winston had to come in cold and try to complete two downs on third on second and two from the two yardd line. And so I I get what the Jackson Dart concern is, but it is not. He's not the guy. I >> I think that that let that that part you just brought up is also a part of this discussion and we should furtherly get into furtherly get into that may be ready for idiots and idioms on Friday. And that is is this going to be a scarlet letter that follows this kid throughout his career? Wherever he goes down, they're going to put him in protocol. >> They can't. They can't. >> Well, yesterday I know, but Evan, you saw it. it affected the game, right? Jameus Winston can't do all those things that Jackson Dart does. I'm not knocking Jameus Winston at all cuz he's he's a good backup quarterback, but if you want to move the pocket, you want to maybe do a QB an actually c designed QB run, you can't do any of those things. And so, they end up not scoring a touchdown there because Jackson Dart misses second and third down, comes back for fourth, and it's just an ineffective throw, ineffective play call. So, I mean, those type of things, they they concern me because I feel like there's a narrative about him that that is a little bit unfair. I know he's been checked what, seven times for concussions. He's only been in protocol once, so I get you're protecting him, but you this might need to be chilled out a little bit. >> Well, and it's one thing for fans to be freaking out about it. It's another thing if he's going to get buzzed down every single game, >> right? And it feels like you said he's been in the tent seven times and he's actually >> absurd. It kind of is. Look, I I'll agree with the conspiracy theorist Giant fans that when he was pulled off the field in that sequence, I'm still looking at my TV screaming, "This is BS." Like, what are we doing now? >> But this is also a part of the thing you have to think about when evaluating Jackson Dard. See, here's the way I would do this. And you are the fairest at doing it. Take your emotions out, though, cuz that's the problem. talking to Giant fans who already in love with Jackson Dart, your emotion's not out of it. You have to look at all the positives and the negatives of Dart and compare him to who is in this quarterback class. And that's how you make that decision >> because you can't just base it on what you've seen over a 9 or 10 or 11 game span. You have to look at the future and say, "Do I project he to be better than anyone else in this draft?" If the answer is yes, then obviously keep him trade off the pick. That's the best case scenario. >> Yeah. The question is you're asking, is it even a conversation that they're having? >> Well, I'll tell you right now, and it's one thing for you guys to say I'm crazy. If it's not a conversation, that's completely irresponsible. I mean, are you are we kidding ourselves? I mean, >> we are so sold on someone after nine games, we won't have a conversation. Forget about trading them. We won't have a conversation. Like, that's that is actually ridiculous if that's the case. Well, did you think do you think that this was the case with Caleb Williams last year when they fired Matt Eberloose and even though Ryan Pace kept his job, um the there were still calls for his for his head a little bit because of how it had been managed over the last few years. So when they fired Eberflu and then hired your guy from Detroit, >> my guy your wish guy Ben Johnson from Detroit. There was no doubt that Caleb Williams >> they weren't picking number one overall. They were picking like 10th overall. Like there's a difference when you're picking It's the same thing in Tennessee by the way. if they get the number one overall pick, they shouldn't have discussions about do we continue to believe in Cam Ward or do we take another quarterback? Like, it's one thing to disagree with moving off of Jackson Dart cuz I'm actually in your camp. I would move off of him, but it is another thing to say it's not a conversation. That's insanity to me. Not a conversation. I >> I just There's certain picks that you get. There's certain guys that you draft and they just feel like the right guy. they feel like they have they check all the boxes and to me Jackson Dart does that and I know there's some frustration with him. I know he's had a you know particularly bad first half yesterday and so it it just makes you question what you what we think we already know. But to me I think he's only going to grow. He's only going to get better. He has he's so much more ahead of where some of these other really good Caleb Williams for example was when he was a rookie that I feel like it it resetting only creates the advantage of having a new coach uh potentially a new GM and a new quarterback all at the same time. >> But by the way, and that's the other thing to keep in mind here. We know there's going to be a new head coach. The jury remains out on the general manager. I know you believe that he will come back. There are some that believe he will come back, who will be a part of this search, and then there are others, certainly a lot of Giant fans, who don't want him to come back, who think there should be a new general manager. >> Having a brand new administration from top to bottom will give you the most independent view on this situation than someone who selected the quarterback. Like, one of the arguments for Joe Shane to stay when we were doing all the grading was that he drafted Jackson Dart. So, obviously that guy isn't going to move on from him. And remember, when new guys take over, we hear this all the time and it drives me nuts, but it's real. Well, they didn't draft that guy. They don't have a loyalty to that guy. They didn't bring that guy in. You'd be doing the exact same thing, which is why you got to consider all possible options if this team is picking number one overall. >> Yeah, I hear you. You're right in a sense. Of >> course, I'm right. I I don't even want to hear it. And I don't think Giant fans want to hear that at all. I I don't want to hear it. I'm going to stop you right now. That's the problem you two guys are having. I'm not even saying to trade them. You That's all you're hearing though. Evan said trade him. Trade. I didn't say that. I said consider all options when you're picking number one overall. >> But Evan, all we've heard for the last month since Brian Dable. Are >> you sick over there? >> I'm not sick. I have a one monotone voice, which the audience might appreciate today cuz you're not going to get squeaky Sean at any point in time. When you're at a Saturday night Ranger game and they score on a penalty shot, you lose your voice for two days. Apparently, that's the lesson I've learned. Okay, here's the deal. >> In addition to screaming at the Giants. >> Yeah, there was a lot going on yesterday. Uh, Evan, all we've heard for a month is how the Giants are going to be the most highly coveted job by a head coach. Did you watch their tackling yesterday? Did you watch uh, you know, their right tackle getting burned by Von Miller all day? You know why they're attractive? Not because of the roster that continues to put out losses. They're attractive because they've already checked a box a head coach doesn't have to worry about. They have a quarterback people believe in. And if you want to say don't anoint him yet, that's a different conversation. Guess what you could do? play the quarterback with the new GM and coach who obviously want the job because of him. And if he proves to have been a nine hit wonder, then next year you're in the market. Why would you do this one year after when you have so many other holes? >> You didn't hear a word I said. >> I did. No, no, >> you said consider all options. >> No, I'm saying I have another kind of rock on the fire of why that's wrong, too. Log on the fire. >> I have I have another log on the fire to why Joe Shane can't come back. That's that's my view of this. I want the most independent eyes to view this situation. I'm not hiring somebody based on if they tell me what I want to hear. I'm hiring the best people for the job. And if let's say that best person for the job is Mike Tomlin and him bringing someone from the Steelers organization to be the general manager and they look at this draft and they look at the number one overall pick and they look at Mendoza and say, "You know what we're going to do? We're going to draft a quarterback. We're going to move off of Dart." I would want that person to be able to make that decision. What you guys are telling me is the decisions already made. Don't bring it up. Well, if I'm hiring a new GM and a new head coach, which they should be doing, and you agree they should be doing, wouldn't you want them to make the decision? Like, what you're saying makes sense, except it doesn't. You have lived the Jets fan life. Would you say the hardest thing in football is to find a franchise quarterback in the draft? >> Of course. Okay. Would you say that anybody with two sets of or two eyes, not two sets of eyeballs, two eyes looking at the Giant situation would say it's more likely than not that Jackson Dart's a franchise quarterback. Would you agree with that? >> I think he's got a chance to be really good in this league. Yes, I like it. >> So, why the hell would I hire a general manager knowing how hard that is to do that already goes, you know what, I'm going to move on here after this? >> Because what if they like the guy the guy available number one overall more? Is that not possible? >> I mean, the guy who just won the >> Just getting on Fernando Mendoza. Didn't he seem really nerdy though? >> He did seem very nerdy. >> It is awesome. >> This is such a personal subject for all of you that you not even listening to the fact that I would not personally trade Jackson Dart. I would personally want to hire a general manager who makes the freaking decision. That's my point. My point is I am not keeping Joe Shane who has an inherent bias to keeping the guy who keeps HIM HIS JOB. NOBODY WANTS THAT. SO, SO THEN that's the point. >> My point is I find it hard to believe when you get a pool of general managers that are going to want this job that out of all of the general manager candidates, the seemingly best one is going to be the one that decides, you know what, I really like Mendoza over Dart. I have a hard time thinking that would be the guy. And I think all ties are going to go to the guy that looks at the situation and goes, "Oh, wait. I don't have to worry about my first year taking a quarterback and instead I could take the number one overall pick and move it for Hall. I trust that guy because halls have worked for teams like the Bears and the Lions and rebuilding it. I want that guy to be my general manager, not some guy who parachutes in and goes, "Well, give me Mendoza now." That's so ridiculous. >> We'll get to your phone calls coming up. 88881019. And I understand that Giant fans are very emotional about it. All it is is you need to be open-minded. I think I said this last week about Francisco Lindor. I don't want to trade Francisco Lindor, but I'm open-minded. And I think when you are the New York Giants who are about to have a two or three win season and Jackson Dart does look good. I like Jackson Dart, but I'm gonna have the number one overall pick potentially for the first time in 50 years. The idea of shutting down conversations about all possibilities, including taking a quarterback and trading Jackson Dart. That's the crazy part. THAT'S THE CRAZY PART. SHUTTING down conversations. I'm sorry. If you go two and 15, everything should be on the table. Everything should be on the table. So, we'll get to it coming up. 88810119

Evan & Tiki open the show reacting to another brutal Giants loss and a miserable Sunday for New York football. With the Giants possibly landing the No. 1 overall pick for the first time in decades, Evan argues Joe Schoen cannot return as GM and that the organization needs truly independent eyes when deciding the future of Jaxson Dart. A heated debate breaks out over whether the Giants must at least consider drafting a quarterback, trading the pick, or standing pat with Dart as the franchise QB. Emotions run high as Giants fans confront hard truths about rebuilding, bias, and the most important decision this franchise may face in 60 years.

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