Cubs Offseason Check-In & What Comes Next | Bleacher Nation Cubs

Cubs Offseason Check-In & What Comes Next | Bleacher Nation Cubs

Hey folks, welcome in to the BN Cubs podcast. I’m Brett Taylor. That’s Michael Sarami here at Talk Cubs. A week away from Christmas and uh you know our gift is that we get to do this podcast thanks to our friends at Anken Law 3126 million injury law made personal and your gift is that you get to hear us talking of course right I won’t do the you know what are the cubs going to get under the tree. I don’t know when we’re going to record next week because next Thursday is Christmas, but um we I feel like it was a relatively active week. This was the week sort of after the winter meetings and you do see uh historically even when it’s a very active winter meetings, which this year was not. Uh you do see a continuation of transactions, things getting finalized um particularly in sort of a tear down of the market. I I feel like we see that every year and we did this year. Um big run in the relief market especially. Um I think that’s probably where we’ll um chat a bit now because on the one hand, you know, we had the Cubs, they landed Hobie Milner. Um they resigned Caleb Dilbar. Uh they u >> I wasn’t able to break that one for all my loyal >> Grammy B. I couldn’t trust any of the reports, frankly. >> Why would you? >> Yeah. >> Why would you if it’s not from, you know, uh, Ken Rosenthal, uh, Jeff Passen, Michael Cammy? It’s not fact. >> Can we say, you know, how it’s like a woge bomb? I know he doesn’t he doesn’t need my own. >> Yeah, it’s a cerami bammy. >> Oh, a cerami bammy. Okay, >> it’s good. >> That’s good. You got to make that happen. >> Don’t Don’t sit like you’re thinking about it. That’s good. That is like knock you in the gut immediately. Good. >> Or a s or sir whammy. >> Yeah, that’s pretty good, too. It has to be, you see, it has to be stupid. >> Yeah. >> To be good. Like it has to sound like I’m saying my last name like a baby. Michael Swami. [laughter] So >> Oh. All right. >> This is why I wish we had like great sound effects. Like our our producer Addison is excellent, but I want like a whammy like just like a pow like in the back >> crowd laughter like I thought >> or that. Oh my god. Laughter. >> That would be wonderful. >> Yeah. Um >> Okay. So >> yeah, let’s talk about that stuff. >> Like I said, so there was a run on relievers. It wasn’t just those guys. Obviously the Cubs were participating in it, but you also had a number of similarly tiered arms going elsewhere, including old friend Drew Pomerance. Good for him getting a real contract with the Angels. Um I think that’s so cool after four years out of the big leagues and >> where old Cud Cubs pitchers go to retire. Kyle Hendris, Drew Pomez. [clears throat] >> Um and then we also had some more significant signings happening. You had two of the you know arguably three remaining definitely back. I don’t want to say closer types but like obviously setup or later types. Luke Weaver, Brad Keller, um Pete Fairbanks still out there. Um Keller going to the Phillies, Weaver to the Mets. Cubs were theoretically in both. >> Funnily enough, Keller going to the Phillies where he’s not going to start and Weaver going to the Mets where they are going to try. >> No, that was that guy. Oh, you got a fake one. >> You got guy. It’s that one who listen. All right, I’m just going to note this. So, for people who are on >> I know I now I know cuz we’ve talked >> Mark Gooden or whatever. Uh it’s a parody account that he sends out stuff that is like adjacent to real triggers people >> but not in the way that The Onion does. I want it’s satire funny. It’s not. He just does it to be fake and get people to believe it and then makes fun of them for believing this actually seemingly plausible thing. Like, >> and see the thing is you can make fun of someone for believing if you told me like if he was like actually Luke Weaver turned down a$und00 million contract and then I pared that fun of me. >> You know what I mean? >> But like the Mets signing Luke Weaver to start one, he used to be a starter. Two, they literally just did that with Klay Holmes. Yeah. Okay. Like >> it’s it’s believable. It’s it’s it’s realistic and it’s like and then again then he makes fun of people for belie that’s his whole shtick is then he makes and it’s you know it makes me so mad >> the only bad economy though otherwise it’s an absolute utopia out there. [laughter] So, I’m not making fun of you, Michael, for believing it because that’s the whole that’s the whole >> Well, to be honest, I was keyed up for that, especially because of the proximity of the signing thing >> and everyone had been talking about that and then I was like, “Oh, that’s a funny like swap of realities because I don’t think >> and we’re sure >> I think I saw that Joel Sherman said um and also the the nature of his Let’s talk about Brad Keller. Let’s start there.” >> Well, that’s what I was going to say. Are we sure he’s there’s no chance he’s going to, you know, get stretched out. >> The Phillies could use another starter. >> So, >> yeah. No, for sure. Um I’ll see. I saw someone mention that that Joel Sherman had said that. So, but it’s a little odd because Sherman’s usually talking more about uh New York teams um than he would about the Phillies, but proximity >> some some of them could have been on Keller. In fact, actually, I take that back. I think Sherman himself reported that the Yankees had been in on Keller to be a starter. >> Oh, interesting. >> So, that might be why. Uh, interesting. Two, signing, Brad Keller and the Phillies are in agreement on a two-year $22 million deal as Robert Murray first had. Um, slight aside there, Robert Murray has been absolutely on fire this off season. He’s been having a lot of deals. Um, no opt out. Teams talked to Keller about starting and relieving. Philadelphia’s plan is to use him as a reliever. So, there you go. Well, so adding to that, what’s interesting is signing this same week for the exact same price as Weaver and Keller. Two years 22 million was uh with the Giants. Um oh, oh my gosh, I’m setting up a thing and then my brain goes blank on who the who’s the you know, he’s the guy who came back with the White Socks and he was traded to the Rays. Um you know, oh gosh, >> I do know about him. This is the Cubs. >> Plus, he I know he was he was brief. >> He was on the Brewers. >> I know. And it’s not like I don’t know. >> Cubs almost signed him this last season and then wanted to trade for him. >> The problem is stuck in my brain is Adrien Samson. And it’s not Adrien Samson. He was the guy who I remember he was a guy who pitched for the Cubs. So, it’s obviously something close to that and but it’s stuck in my head. >> Okay, let’s play a game. Um >> Oh, this is brutal. >> No. So, you got Well, I could get my first name, right? >> Adrian, >> I wanted to play a gamer like a guessing game, but um >> So, anyway, he also got two years and 22 million. Obviously, >> a professional podcast. >> Yeah, [laughter] in a real world. >> I’m sharing fake rumors from false accounts. I can’t think of the guy’s name. >> Just clip that stuff out. Uh no, see, that’s how real we are. We leave all of our dirty laundry in, you know, we’re just we’re just a couple of real dudes. Just a couple real dudes with warts and all. Actually, I saw a comment on our YouTube channel that was like, “These guys act like they know so much and they can’t even still say Phil Mattton’s name, right?” >> And I was like, “One of us, one of us can.” >> Yeah, I’m leaning into it now. And Phil Mton is uh I don’t need to say his name right. There’s still some baseball players names that uh Travis Darno, it took me like four years to get that correct. >> Travis Darnet. >> Darn Darn. I mean the the the here’s an aside. This is going to be a podcast of aides. >> Uh you know we are we live completely in the world of all these players constantly and we to be clear we don’t know everything. Like it’s not even close to knowing everything. But >> yourself >> nature of our jobs we do probably know more about players and about about transactions about these things than like the average fan. That’s kind of our job to know more than that, right? But just because you’re living in that world and constantly studying these players and reading about them, watching clips, looking at stats, all that stuff, you may not have heard their name all that much. And so, it is not that infrequent for me to like be confronted with a player who I’ve thought about, written about, talked about all the time, and then be like, “Wait, how do you say that?” So, yep, it’s not that uncommon. Um, I got made fun of by David De Jesus once because um, Arman Marquez, do you guys remember him? I called him German Marquez [laughter] and him and Luis were like, “You’re the whitest person we’ve ever met.” And he just called him German Marquez. >> And they’re right. But a guy I had written about and talked about and thought about, and I just finally said his name out loud without thinking, and I was like, “Yeah, German Marquez.” >> I thought you were going to say, >> “You think his name is German?” [laughter] I thought you were gonna say you called David David the to Jesus. >> The Jesus. That would be good. That would be the equivalent in in a sense, but that one [clears throat] I had the the uh the the uh foresight to know. Um that was in the NBC Sports Chicago days. He [laughter] was like, “You’re the whitest person I’ve ever was like, “Yeah, pretty white.” Sorry about that. >> Although, and it’s ironic because with your own last name, people get it wrong all the time. >> All the time. Constantly. Um, I was trying to come up with a really weird pronunciation. Like, it’s actually pronounced true, but no one says it >> uh, >> okay, so back to baseball. You talk some baseball. >> Yeah, I don’t know. Sorry. >> Uh, derailing us today. >> It was clearly not a coincidence that you had these deals all dropping at the same price tag, even though different styles of pitchers, different roles. It’s like, you know, teams are valuing these guys in in this range. Um, and the Cubs, for their part, um, weren’t there. And I don’t know if if they had matched the Keller deal, would he have stayed with the Cubs? Probably. Like, doesn’t that seem pretty likely given how happy he was with the Cubs? And >> yeah, it was a lower deal than Okay. When they were when the rumors and the reports projected around 30 million plus in three years, I was like, “Okay, you know what? that’s gonna be. [clears throat] But at 222, it’s like [snorts] [sighs and gasps] >> I could kind of see the value there. >> We can’t lose sight of the fact coming into the off season in no universe would we ever have expected the Cubs to to commit to multiple years at 10 plus million to a reliever. That just would never happen with this group. And I don’t know if it was the Meton signing, which was two and like seven per year, um, or the Tanner Scott pursuit last year that that at least made us question like, has there been >> You said Monton. I’m pretty sure it’s Matten. >> No, it’s Mton. >> Oh my god. Are you kidding me? >> Yeah. No, >> I’m I’m lost in the sauce. I will I need to hear >> now. Now you’ve got me times. >> Now you’ve got me questioning it. That one was one I was like pretty sure. >> Yeah. Like I was pretty sure I knew that one. Like that wasn’t even one I was questioning. >> Okay. Sorry. I’m sorry. I I’ll focus. I >> uh I don’t know where I am today. >> What What genius point was I making? >> Well, you’re just making that these guys are all valued in the same range and >> about the Cubs whether or not they’re going to do that. So, you know, with Fairbanks, it’s interesting and we’ll see what happens. Obviously, the Rays rejected his option where they could have retained him effectively for one year and 10 million because it was a 1 million buyout on an 11 million option. And you know that suggests, right, that they thought the market was going to be something less than that. Otherwise, you retain him and you trade him. And I do wonder, you know, Keller and Weaver if they’re worth two and 22 and Adrien Hower to again different style of pitcher, but maybe overall contribution similar. Um, is is Fairbanks a lesser pitcher going forward than those guys? Lesser predict projection? >> On paper, he shouldn’t be, but this is what’s making me start to question. So, when he hadn’t signed originally, um I was thinking what some people had been writing, some smart people out there were like, well, he’s in the driver’s seat now. And there’s always a free agent who does this who kind of like some people like to jump the market, some like to ride the wave and take whatever they can when they can. And some like to sit back and go, now that there’s nobody left and you need a reliever, you know, come show me the money. um all reasonable, logical paths, but I’m starting to think [snorts] uh that is that, you know, is there something about him that is known to teams investigating his medicals is whatever his priorities, >> there have been injury issu There have been injury issues >> and so because the Rays, it’s such a it’s such a frustrating variable that the Rays were the one to >> uh and it before the off seasonason had started and budgets are finalized like they they had to just >> basically make a guess, right? Like >> right >> um >> and so I don’t know I don’t know um what the deal is there because Tampa Bay just but Tampa Bay is not stupid and if he was going to get let’s let’s just think about this very easily. If he was going to get a two-year, if he was going to get a one-year $15 million deal, then you pick him up and you sign him for or you trade him for a $5 million surplus on some prospect and you save all the money, >> right? >> Anyway, so why didn’t they do they was they didn’t foresee any trade market for him? >> I’ll add another layer that makes it even more curious. So they could have just put him on waiverss and a team could have claimed him for 11 million >> and the Rays save a million bucks. It’s essentially trading for a million bucks and that didn’t happen either. >> So like does that mean that suggests >> that the Rays felt like no team was even going to claim him at that price? >> How trade? >> How would no one have heard this yet? especially because the Cubs have been so frequently connected and by multiple national and local uh sources. The Blue Jays, again, a team that everyone’s attention is on like very firmly. Uh we’re very heavily connected to Pete Fairbanks. Um, I have to imagine that something would have been out there by now that’s like, hey, actually is >> at this same time that that was happening, the Cubs did that very same trick essentially with the Orioles and Andrew Kitridge, right? His that decision was was 89 instead of 1011. So, it’s it’s different mathematically, but Fairbanks, I think, is a better pitcher, more valuable than Kitridge. and the Cubs were able to trade him for cash. >> So, I I don’t get Yeah, I I don’t get it. Uh >> maybe I’ll try to do some digging to see if there’s anything there. I’ll ask around because >> it’s a little surprising. >> Yeah. Point being on all this, the Cubs are not alone among the teams looking to still add a late inning reliever. And if Fairbanks is the last one standing, uh this stuff really matters. Like >> he is literally the last. >> I mean, Saranth Dominguez, you could make an art. I mean, >> I mean, first of all, love his name. Talk about names. >> That’s a good one. >> He sounds like a knight, you know, like Sir Anthony. >> Oh, the obvious shirts will make themselves. It’ll be Sir Anthony and then like a like a horse a guy on a on a on horseback on a steed with like the sword. >> Oh, no. He’s holding the baseball. >> Yeah. Now we need to >> Yeah. Get on the line and uh >> Oh, boy. So anyway, so this is all it matters because I think the fact that the Cubs didn’t sign Brad Keller for 222 means I mean could argue that it was specific to Keller. The Cubs are worried about him going forward, whatever. It makes me think more that they don’t want to commit 10 plus million to another relief arm, especially before they figure out what’s going to happen with the starting rotation and Bregman and all that kind of stuff. >> There’s still a lot of stuff out there for that. >> So I think we always talk about there’s there’s trade >> there’s there’s a million potential options and what I’m kind of hoping for what I’m hopeful for is that if the Cubs go the route and maybe this is what we should we could transition right into this next if they go the route where they are signing a position player maybe it’s Okamoto maybe it’s Bregman maybe it’s whoever um and they trade for a starter what I’m hoping is that they’re talking to the Nationals right or they’re talking to the Marlins and the Marlins and the Nationals have just like an outrageously high price. The Cubs are like, “Listen, you can have player X, you could have Jackson Wiggins, but then you or >> not Jackson Wiggins, but >> I know, but then you need to give us, you know, your reliever and then that gets the deal over and then maybe the Cubs have to add to balance it out.” But like it’s like, nope, then then expand this into a much larger deal and then that is how we accomplish both things. Um because frankly, I’m not going to lie, uh if Fairbanks ends up signing and it’s like a healthy deal and this is just all a nonsense conversation, he gets, you know, he gets 330 or something. I don’t I don’t I have no idea. I have no not saying that. But if he does and so signifying implying that he’s fine and people are treating him as a closer and the Cubs aren’t the team to sign him, they let like 10 of those guys Yeah. sign like 10. >> Uh I don’t know. >> Noting again that was two worst names. >> My my punctuation on that is just that again coming into the off season I don’t think we ever would have expected them to sign one of those guys to a three you know three year $30 million deal anyway >> of course I also didn’t expect them I don’t expect them to >> what I want them to do and I think that they should do and what I expect them to do are different things. Yeah, but we could do that every year with like Man, they should be signing Bob Bashette right now. Like >> they should probably be signing Bob Bashette. >> Yeah, I I I >> I’m not saying I’m not doing the thing. It’s the the wrong version of this argument is it’s not your money. What do you care? Because there’s a budget and yada yada yada yada yada. >> But like when we categorically I I mean this with Kyle Tucker. I mean I’m not saying the Cubs should be the ones to give him 400, but like our complete like not even a thought about that. It’s like, are we conceding this just like a jump? >> The point you’re making is there’s two different conversations we could be having as fan analyst type people. We could be talking about here’s the things even >> within the world we understand the Cubs to realistically be living in. Here’s what they should be doing and here’s what we think. Here’s our analyst hat, what we think they’re going to be doing. Um, and that’s fine. I’m fine. >> There’s a third route. There’s what they should be doing because it’s like Tom Rkkins is a billionaire and he should spend all the money in the world. I think that one I think stupid so I don’t even me too I have no interest. >> There’s what they what what they we expect them to do but then there’s the middle ground which is like I understand what the the general budget is and the strategy of when you can spend slightly more slightly less and coordinate those moves. And even within that, I think that they should be willing to give Brad Keller $11 million for next year. I’m not saying that’s the one they should do, but I’m saying like we can even say fine, within the framework of what we both agree is the budget, here’s how I would spend the Cubs money, and here’s how Jed Hoyer spending the Cubs money. And so for example, if it’s Bob Bashett at 200 million or Alex Bregman at 150 million, you can still make you I think it’s reasonable to make the argument that Bob Bashett is the better player and willing to spend a little Yeah. Yeah. That wasn’t really my point. Kyle Tucker would be a better example. My only point is there’s no universe where the Cubs are actually going to sign Kyle Tucker to the contract he’s going to get. So there’s no point in even, you know, I guess going into that. And then with the relievers, I I guess I’m only saying >> Edwin Diaz, you know, we had this conversation, Edwin Diaz. I just that was never going to happen. They weren’t they were not going to sign the deal. So why would we, >> in fact, it was what I asked at the end of that other pot. I was like, why don’t we talk about Edwin Diaz? And it’s and the answer, frankly, is >> because it’s wasted breath. But I honestly feel like everyone south of Edwin Diaz should have been fair game. I think Robert Suarez is a little old and doesn’t have as long of a track record as you realize. >> Deon Williams was clearly considered, right? >> Yeah. And notably like the Cubs. I mean, I when when I wrote I I wrote this in a recent article, but when I had written that the Cubs [snorts] were still in on signing a top end, you know, free agent reliever, I was reporting that it was because I had heard that like Devin Williams really liked the Cubs that the Cubs were interested in signing Devin Williams and he like wanted to make it happen. I I mean that that’s what happened. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then that was effectively reported and confirmed by you don’t have to take my word for it. >> Yeah. I wonder how far they were willing to go cuz he got what like 350 something like that. 3 years and 50 million or something. >> I mean >> you’re you have to bet on him. But it’s kind of like the Cubs just take different types of bet. I I still think Jed Hoyer has a good quote on it. He and I actually probably appreciated it more than usual because this offseason we still expect them to spend some money. and he was like, you know, some people like to spend their budget on big bullpen blocks and I rather spend it on the rotation and um the position players and it’s like that’s fine and I think you’re probably right about that then go and you got to go do the other part though. You can’t just say like >> what’s Yes. But what’s crazy is so they’ve now committed over 15 million to to relievers this off season on guaranteed deals. That’s actually, especially pre Yeah. flip of the calendar, they usually reserve a little bit and they’ll add they’ll pick up one of the, you know, guys for five million who who lingered. That’s actually >> a lot more than usual. Um, which I found. >> For what it’s worth, I really like I like the foundation of the bullpen that they have set. >> And I think that if you believe in Daniel Plencia, >> then you’re like, we kind of got something going here. Um, it’s just they’re missing they’re missing another eighth inning guy. >> Yes, they are. They are, >> you know, they are. >> Um, >> no, no question. [snorts] So, speaking of I don’t know that does kind of naturally transition into um, one of the biggest topics right now among I think Cubs fans talking about what the Cubs are going to do is the uh, we all know they need to add a front half starting pitcher. Tons of options still available in free agency and trade. Um, we not know, we would also like them to figure out a way to add a bat to the lineup and then we’ve been over this that like realistically it’s third base kind of makes the most sense. Um, you could maybe figure something out at DH say right field and one of the young guys ends up traded. Whatever you could there are ways you could figure it out. >> Yeah. Um, but what I keep coming back to is if you’re talking about free agency, it’s very hard for me to see the Cubs being able to or being able to um the Cubs within their budget signing a big bat and signing one of the big starting pitchers. Both. >> Yeah, that’s reasonable. And so what I keep wondering as these as the Alex Bregman stuff heats up um not necessarily with just the Cubs t being talked about publicly but Diamondbacks, Red Sox, all that stuff. You wonder if it’s coming to a head. You wonder if maybe a signing is coming. And I just wonder if the Cubs preferred path for this off season in in this part of the conversation was let’s land Alex Bragman and let’s trade for a starting pitcher if we can pull that off and and I could be I could be talked into that being the best version of like sort of the 2016 team and beyond. >> Um but it’s the hardest path too, right? Right? Like with a free agent starting pitcher, they’re there. Just write them a check and you’ve got that part. And okay, you weren’t able to add a big bat, but you do have Matt Shaw at third base. You have Nico still at second. Like >> I you know, I just wonder I wonder what’s going to happen. So I’ll conclude this and then you can go. I wonder what’s going to happen if and when Bregman does sign say before Christmas and it’s not with the Cubs. I wonder if suddenly we’re gonna see a real quick uptick in the Cubs free agent starting pitcher. >> Yeah. No, I think that that’s possible, but I will offer one alternative um explanation that could whatever explanation. Um there are multiple free agent bats too between Murakami, Okamoto, Bashette, and Bregman. They do not they’re those are not the same thing. Like I get that they’re very different players in a lot of ways, but they’re all sort of occupying a semi- similar corner of the market. And I I think there’s probably a lot of so the Cubs might be intertwined on their free agency and their position player uh paths of choice or options, but the rest of the market could just it’s like uh um when you’re slowed by options. I forgot. >> Let’s not forget there’s trade options for other organizations too that are interrelated with this. >> Catel Marte is sort of involved in that too. I will say um between the Mariners, between Scott Boris begging the Mariners to consider Alex Bregman and now the Diamondbacks report that oh actually the Diamondbacks are considering signing Alex Bregman and keeping Catel Marte. You know what? Give me a break a little bit. Um >> on that one. Yeah. >> Yeah. I don’t think so. And whatever. But I do think that those two things coming up like a week, but it’s it feels artificial. It feels forced and that to me feels like one of those things that uh prelude uh precedes a signing >> and and that’s because you know a lot of times we see this like there’s a few different versions of this. So I’m going to try to remember it’s like >> there’s obviously the tweet before the tweet where it’s like Alex Bregman and the Cubs are getting close on a deal. Yeah. And it’s like, okay, so they’ve signed him and it’s just not reportable yet, right? Um I’m I’m if I get the if I get the tip off that the Cubs have signed Alex Bregman, I’m probably going to drop a they’re approaching a deal because I’m going to be way too scared of getting that one wrong. [laughter] Um I was like when when I did uh Hobie Milner, I was like it it took so long for anyone to confirm it and I think it was because whoever else had just signed right before that. Um maybe it was Edund Diaz even. And uh I was sweating and I was like, “Well, I haven’t gotten one of these wrong yet.” And it’s like, “At least it’s like a minor relief signing. It’s going to happen.” >> And Cubs sign Bregman and I get that one wrong. I’m going to be like, “Come on.” Uh but hey, if Bob Nightingale can show his face out in public, why can’t I? Um I will I will do a presidential style apology when I get it wrong. I’ll sit in like a suit and I’ll say my fellow bienners. Uh [laughter] >> I thought I had a cerami bammy >> but it turned into a cerami whammy. >> Yeah. Um I forgot what I was saying. Oh, what was what what’s going to happen? So I I do feel like so that that’s the sort of tweet that comes out before like a signing is about to happen. But then there’s other kinds where it’s like the day of or the day before and that tends to be like all of a sudden the Blue Jays are interested in signing Bregman too and it’s like guess what that’s that means the deal with the Red Sox is >> complete and that’s the last flare that goes up and I think that’s what is this is maybe one step further down the rung but these the Mariners and then the Diamondbacks are like here’s the last Hail Marys of is anyone else going to jump into this cuz we’re about to do a last call, you know, with team X and team Y and then my client’s going to make a decision. So, >> put this out there. >> That is what that feels like. And and a lot of times, again, we’ve talked about this in the past on the pod and off. I know people like to think that we’re being conspiratorial. We we’ve done this for so long. It’s the same reporters and the same agents and the same front offices. They all have the same MO that they’ve had for the last 10 or 15 years. It’s not changing. We see it so often that we are able to identify the patterns. That’s one of the patterns. Um, so I wouldn’t be surprised know if Breman comes out soon. But do you have a preferred path? Would you prefer them to sign a free agent, bat, and then trade for a starter or uh, you know, >> I’m I’m always annoying with this stuff because I say, well, it kind of depend depends on the structure podcast. You’re supposed to have hot takes. >> I know it depends on the structure of the contract. like if you told me um options are and I’ll even go I’ll make it hard on myself because I’ll say Tatsuya am I on a on a really nice deal you know but that’s it and he’s the it’s my preferred free agent target for the Cubs or it’s Bregman on a re you know reasonable deal but the Cubs are trading away really meaningful young player or two prospect whatever and getting Edward Cabrera. Okay. Um, you know, I I think probably that latter one because it makes the Cubs, it’s the one that improves the Cubs much more for 26. Um, and depending on how well you think Bregman ages, depending on how redundant the pieces that you moved were, it could make co better for 27 and 28. Now you’re now when you trade for that starting pitcher, you’re getting two years if it’s Mackenzie Gore, three if it’s Cabrera. you know, you’re not getting six, seven years or whatever the free agent signing would be. Cheaper, yes, but shorter, yes. So, it really comes down to how much are you looking to goose the next two or three years versus thinking about the next five or six. >> You know, part of me though thinks that gooseing the next two years is actually a good idea. Not only because of the things we’ve talked about for next year, because so many players are exiting in free agency after 2026. So, you kind of do have to goose next year no matter what. I think it’s kind of just >> circumstantial. You have to do that. >> But even 2027, you know, I look around the Cubs and I see uh >> Yeah. Um Shaw, Bisteros, Owen, Owen, Casey, Miguela, Michael Bush, PCA, um Cade Horton, and then maybe Jackson Wiggins. There’s a lot to figure out uh among those players. And so if you can sort of uh support them with a quality team around them, let them figure it out. And >> such a good point. >> You know what I mean? Then you know what you need to coordinate thereafter by juicing the next two years, not the next six. And not only that, to amplify Michael’s point, you know, when you talk about a young core like that, that there’s tons of young talent, river, the the instinct is to think about that is ah that means so many spots are going to be full with young talent and the Cubs are going to be good because of that and they’re not going to need to add more because they’ve got and it’s like maybe if everything’s perfect, but in reality, you need that time to figure out who’s actually going to plant their feet and be a guy who sticks and to to give yourself the best chance of one not losing a ton of games while that happens. But then two, make sure you are seeing the best possible version of these young players is you want to make sure that around them there’s a successful team of veterans that are taking pressure off of them, helping them develop u the right approach to the big leagues, etc., etc. pitchers that work with pitchers, defenses that support pitchers, you know. Um I I mean, think about too, this is not a perfect parallel, but it it just it popped into my brain, so I feel like it’s worth bringing up. Um >> even like Addison Russell or think about the last Cub’s core about how you we didn’t you you don’t know who’s going to emerge as like a longer term piece of the puzzle. You know what I mean? You just don’t know. and having those other players around them. It’s like it it gives you some time to figure out which guys you’re going to want to for we could find out that PCA is a superstar and don’t you think that will change the Cubs path? You know what I mean? Uh depending on what version of him it amounts to or that hey Miguela is going to be a pretty good catcher for a long time. we don’t need to but or the opposite happens and you know you do need to translate those dollars that way. So I guess what my point is there is that doing something short-term for two years while these guys all figure it out because these are two critical years for like six players. >> Yeah. >> Is maybe better long term than giving a six years and you’re like you’re locked into like we already committed these dollars. >> Yep. >> This guy these guys aren’t working out. PCA is just average at the plate or below and you’re stuck a little bit then. So, I think I’m talking myself into a little bit of a a short-term goose and then you redetermine your path forward with the additional knowledge you have on these younger guys in 2027. >> I think that’s a fantastic argument. I think I mean I think the counter to it is is going to be more player is going to be more um idiosyncratic to like well but they just really love MI or you know like they specifically and we can’t do anything. >> And Ami’s 27. And I mean, I am still pretty excited about him. >> I get the it’s risk is so risk. He’s going to get 150 plus million >> and you could be completely wrong. Like that’s a guy where you could get you give Valdez 150 million. He’s older, but you you’re going to get something. You’re going to get some value out of that. >> Yeah. >> You give a 150 million, you might get nothing. You might get nothing. And so I I get the risk. I just think that um you know the upside whatever we don’t have to turn this into a thing but like the age the upside the potential for him [snorts] being a guy who could do some stuff in Japan and succeed but showed that he was also able to do some different things if he needed to but it like isn’t the best way to succeed in Japan. That feels like a guy who could transition well to the states because he’s like it’s it’s a lot like some of the guys that we’ve seen come over and have success. They’re able to change their approach. just like, “Oh, this is what works better in MLB. Well, it just so happens that I have a 97 mph fastball and I can use that more and I can try to command at the top of the zone instead of the bottom and I can try to get whiffs instead of generating low contact, etc., etc.” Um, >> do you think the Cubs whiffed a little bit in not getting one of those multi-year closers that were dealt at the deadline? Like Duran, I think, was one of the big options, >> but he was price. Oh my gosh, that was the one deal Twins actually got a huge return on. >> It’s one of those things though that I always it it’s always the case and it’s always Monday morning quarterbacking. But it’s like it’s like Brad Keller like uh Cubs should have signed him to a two-year $1 million deal last year, right? >> I mean, what do you say? Yeah, they should have. It would have been insane had they done that. >> And they did with Boyd and they did with Carson Kelly. >> Oh, yeah. Those are I mean, exactly. Almost right. I mean, seriously, Matthew Boyd probably would have gotten paid pretty well, I think, this off seasonason. Um, >> I would think he’d get Yeah. What? It’s just kind of fun to think about. >> I’m gonna make a guess. >> 50. >> I was going to say 480. >> Yeah. >> How old is he? He’s not that old, right? >> Uh, he’s going to be 35 next year. >> Oh, he’s super old. What the hell? [laughter] >> Oh, yeah. No, >> guess he’s been around for a while. Um, all right. want to switch over to our transaction corner. >> Yeah. Do you have one? >> Yeah. You’re gonna think about it while I read this [laughter] copy and I’m gonna read it backwards as I promised. Efficiency, energy, and beauty of balance. Perfect. The offers feltco Midwest the four specifically designed and us the inmade products with customers. They’re delighting on themselves prides and own family is Felco roofing and doors sighting windows there with home Chicago and transforming has been oh bin has feltco years 50 almost four feltco with partner too proud is nation bleacher experts renewal home the felco >> thank you >> well done >> this is I think that’s better I think I just got more people thinking about felco than if I read it straight the forward the regular Okay. >> What’s the actual goal of the ad? >> Well, goal is to get attention. Or is it to communicate a message? Probably depends. >> I did not communicate a message. >> Uh, they know it’s they know it’s spelled code. It’s home stuff. >> Maybe that’s it. Yeah, look it up. >> Code. >> This is Please. >> Uh, well, thanks for buying me time to uh, you know, there’s a category that I’ve been thinking that I have genuinely been thinking about. So, it’s maybe I could I can throw a player on it just for fun, but um there’s a area of the market, free agent market that we don’t discuss at all >> at all. Uh and it’s this swing pitcher lower tier. >> Oh, yeah. >> Colin Ray type >> guy. We don’t talk about it at all. And part of it’s because >> Cubs have Colin Ray. The Cubs have Ben Brown. They have Jordan. They have Kabir Assad. Like they already have a bunch of those guys. And you know, I was thinking about Aaron Savali specifically. You know, if I had >> as a Cubs target, maybe, maybe not. >> I did really like that was the first time he pitched in relief in his career was when the Cubs got him last year. >> I thought he looked really good. We didn’t >> it it happened at a time where we were so focused on the playoff race and all that kind of stuff that it was there was never going to be this like drill down on what could he be if he were a multi-inninging reliever. Allah, you know, or or a conversion like a Brad Keller, you know, whatever. Um, but watching him, I did that did pop in my head a few times because I was like, there’s this is kind of interesting where he I feel like fastball got a little got a little spicier. And um, anyway, there’s tons of those guys uh, who are probably right now um, looking for uh, starting jobs. Um, trying to like Nick Martinez is another one. um Shawn Nukem. Uh there’s a there’s a there’s a lot of those guys that have have shown success in relief and starting at some point or another in their big league career. So, they fall into that swing category. And here’s what I’m curious for our purposes. If the Cubs don’t sign one of the the big free agent starting pitchers, don’t make a trade for an obvious starting pitcher. >> And so all that’s left is sort of that tier of guys, what would your reaction be if they like went and got a couple of those and they’re like, “Eh, it’ll work out between Ray and like it’ll work out. We’ll we’ll we’ll get some good starts.” I what my reaction would be is um I’m getting fitted for my Kyle Tucker jersey and my Bobahat jersey and [laughter] because then I’m >> because where did the money go? Yeah. >> Or or I’ll do I’ll take uh the advice of Jim Bowden who said just go be a fan of the Dodgers. >> I trade your >> I’m sorry I’m going off on a tangent for one second. Did you see that? >> Yeah, it was bad. It was really bad. That is bad. The presumption that this maybe I’m just a psycho and I write about the Cubs for a living. The idea that I can just be a fan of another team. It’s like saying like just start being from Spain. No, but I’m not I’m a Cubs fan. Like I’m not picking the Cubs. I didn’t pick my family. I don’t know. I I do not treat my Cubs fandom as something I’ve chose one or the other. It’s >> No, you’re infected. You’re infected with it. Like I >> But but the presumption like I actually agree with the argument that’s like if you’re a fan of the Pirates, you could just stop being a fan of the Pirates then. Stopping being a fan, not supporting the Bulls right now. Very logical. And go be an fan of the NBA, you could still watch basketball. But to be like, just start being a Dodgers fan. That’s the solution. What are you talking about? Anyway, I hated that. >> Why would you even want to be a fan of the like that just sounds unappealing anyway? >> And on top of everything, I got hit with the like the argument from people that were like, uh, cuz the billionaire owners of the Cubs aren’t spending. So the even richer owners of the Dodgers and the Mets are the ones I should be supporting. Like you’re anti-billionaire, but you want the even richer billionaire. >> Well, at least they’re spending would be the >> I guess whatever. Anyway, [laughter] I hated it. Um, so >> well, [snorts] let let me let me ref take that opportunity to say this. What if and the money was the same and the Cubs ended up they they signed Okamoto, they signed Fairbanks >> and they signed, you know, Savali and Nukem and they were like, you know what, >> it’s the same money. And they’re like, we we just the deals weren’t the right deals weren’t there. These will all be short term, by the way, so there’s some benefits there. >> Um, and they’re like, we just we we believe in our our structure. We’re going to get some, you know, we’re going to have 10 starting pitchers this year and we’re going to make it work. Craig Council is great at this. And >> I think I’ll tell you what I like about that scenario. I I actually really like Okamoto. I’m kind of I’m kind of >> I’m quietly hopeful like if it doesn’t work out with Bregman like the Cubs. >> Yeah, I’m interested. I’m very interested. >> Um I still think with knowing the information we know that Fairbanks is a good target for the Cubs, too. I I like that idea. Um, I will say that uh I think some of what’s animating this is you might be recalling either directly or inadvertently the report from either the athletic guys or Jeff Pass who suggested that the Cubs are going to target some of those starting pitchers that were on. Do you remember this? It was during the winter meetings. >> It’s it’s tickling some like vague >> they mentioned they’re like we’re looking at that but we’re also looking at exactly the type of pitcher you’re talking about. Okay. And I remember that that came up because I was thinking like Michael Soka kind of felt like the guy that the Cubs wanted to do this with. It felt like a project that they had in mind >> and then they just he got hurt right after the trade and they’ve it’s just went away and we’ll never think about him again and he has since signed. But like I thought that was the guy that they would want to do it with if they were going to want to do it with anyone. And I will add that I although I do think um I mean I I’m positive I still think the Cubs need a front of the rotation starting pitcher. They do have a lot of starters. I don’t hate that Javier Assad might get some run that he didn’t really get last year because of injuries. I still think like you do Jordan Wixs is got more to offer than he has >> delivered thus far. I think Jackson Wiggins has a chance to step up into a role and having be able to do that >> coming back. >> Yeah. But I will add though now my flip side is I think in my head I was going you know Matthew Boyd, Chota Imanaga, Jameson Tyion, Cade Horton, Justin Steel, but Justin Steel is they’re talking they’re like hopefully Biden midseason. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That’s like that means there’s a chance it’ll be we’re going to wait till after the All-Star break and it’s like >> well you need actually a whole lot of >> innings then we’re like down a starter and down Justin Steel. Like in my head >> that assumes everyone else is healthy. Yeah, exactly. Which they won’t be. But like because Justin Steel went down so early in the year last year, I was like, well, he’ll be back for beginning of next season. But it’s like that’s not the case. And it’s not even like by the end of April or the end of May. It’s like maybe June. That that’s a lot of missed games. Um >> I think Justin Steel >> I think that’s a little bit of a risk though is what I’m getting. >> Well, you can’t here’s you couldn’t contemplate Steel’s return as part of an approach that is bulk related. you know, where if you did sign a bunch of these guys that are interchangeable and whatever, but what you can’t do is is is think of steel in relation to what your decision is at the front of the rotation. Exactly. Steel’s coming back. So, we can’t afford to, you know, no I don’t even know if I was thinking that I thought that, but that is what that is correct in how I feel is that you know getting those bulk guys and listen where would the Cubs have been last year without Colin Ray? You might think that sounds ridiculous. They wouldn’t they would have struggled. He was a big part of the team and he was exactly this sort of pitcher. And frankly, his >> $5.5 million deal looks pretty darn good right now. >> Pretty darn good >> compared to what Adrien Hower just got even, you know, like. >> Um, so that’s good. I just I don’t know if I think they need more of those guys unless they unless as always they say, “Oh yeah, I know you guys like Jordan Wix or Javier, but look at this guy. We Zombro thinks >> he’s going to be amazing for XYZ. Well, then go get him because you think he’s going to be good and don’t worry about >> what Jordan Wix is going to do at Iowa or something.” >> Yeah, that’s less like a structural plan and more just we just like this picture. And I actually think they they probably that’s probably more how they operate >> than they they probably are thinking less especially with Craig Council less about well we need six of this type and we need four of this type and we need two of this type. It’s it’s probably really is look the job is the job. It’s to stand on a mound, throw a ball and get outs. >> Yeah. But okay, I want to I’ve been thinking about this. I’m going to tee you up for hot take if you want it. If not, I think there’s a very very good argument against the hot take that is being teed up. Does it annoy you at all or do you think it’s a copout at all when correct council just says out getters? Because I just [snorts] want to frame it as this. There’s a version of it where it’s like, yeah, you’re correct and and you kind of do mean that. But part of me thinks that sometimes he and Jed Hoyer and then the reporters covering this team say, “Oh, well, you know, Craig Conso just wants out Getters, so who cares about a closer?” It’s like, “Well, I still care about a closer.” >> Yeah. >> So, >> well, >> is it is it a copout or is it the answer? >> No. I mean, I think I think it just gets taken too far, right? Because in on one extreme, like we know the closing out games in the ninth is different than other innings. like it it it affects players differently. We also know the ability to sustain your stuff mechanically and effectiveness through five innings of work on a day, 100 pitches, whatever, is different than 20 pitches. Like those are physiologically different things and you can’t say the fourth inning of work from this guy is the same as the first inning work from this guy because they’re just outgetters. Now that said, what we saw as Cubs fans watching the Brewers for years under Craig Council is there was way more flexibility for him to like use a guy two innings here and four innings here and like he had a stable of guys. Adrien Samson always felt like one of them. Adrien Samson. >> Hower. >> Hower. [clears throat] Hower. Uh where he would who was that lefty had that that Brent Sudter was one of these. >> Oh yeah, Brent Sudter. Like it just felt like he always had these guys who he could get to do whatever whenever. And that’s to me that’s the outgetter, right? Like don’t call everybody that. Don’t treat everyone like that. >> That’s what I’m that’s what I’m getting at. Don’t be like we don’t like oh Edwin Diaz is a closer. He’s just an outgetter, [laughter] >> right? Diaz, he’s just an outgetter. >> Um I don’t know. I I think you I think you nailed it. I think it just sometimes I think it just got taken a little too extreme and I think it’s a really really catchy smart sounding phrase that can be used as a crutch to deflect. >> Yeah. And that’s what I don’t like. Um it’s it’s honestly the same thing as like whenever anyone asks Jed Hoyer or Crank County about their budget and they’re like, “Wow, we just haven’t like crunched the numbers yet.” that and it’s like well what we’re kind of asking is is it going to be anywhere near where we want it to be or not. We don’t the exact number and you do know the answer to that whether you have crunched the numbers or not. Are you like are you like is it like opening your report card without knowing the grades you got on any of the tests throughout the year? Like are you going to be surprised like should you be? I don’t think so really. Um I just I don’t know. >> That’s all I got. It’s a very political response like I haven’t seen that yet. I don’t know. >> Oh, really? You haven’t seen the you you don’t know what the what the attendance was like this year and the ratings and you you don’t have any kind of you don’t I don’t know. I didn’t look at that yet. >> What what weirdly what what crazy longevity we’ve had. >> So, obviously Ricketts bought the team, but Crank Kenny has been around forever and Jed Hoyer has been around for a very long time because he was GM and now president. It feels like there hasn’t been like a organizational change in like 20 years. >> I mean it’s really true. >> It like the the front office turned over at the start of the Ricketts regime. So that that 2009 to 10 to 11 range but truly since then so 2011 really you could say 15 years plus whereas >> and that’s but that’s on the baseball side before that on the business side. >> Sure. Although Tribune to Ricketts was a pretty >> transformative difference >> and honestly I’m not that was probably for the best ultimately. >> Uh yeah for as much as Yo for for fans who either don’t remember or are younger or whatever like >> exactly >> you you might hate on the Ricketts family but like being owned by a publicly traded newspaper company a lot worse. >> Yeah that’s worse. also being owned by Jerry Rindorf would be worse. And honestly, although they’ve gotten some things right, like the ownership of the Bears being of a family who are not independently wealthy at all is clearly a limiting factor. >> Yes. >> For what they could be as an organization. >> So, I guess didn’t they sell TDM Air Trade? I was gonna say hopefully that TDM air trade value goes up or something. I don’t know. Yeah. I don’t know. >> We need them to hit it big. [laughter] >> Cubs just need to move to Northwest Indiana and they can share >> Northwest Indiana. >> Share a stadium with the Bears. >> Yeah. Right. Right. Three days before Packers before the biggest Bears game in >> I don’t know 15 years in regular season Bears game. >> Yeah. It’s good good timing. Real good real good leverage grab. >> Uh like when the Cubs were going to move to Rosemont. Um, >> closer to me. [laughter] >> This is the BN Cubs podcast. I’m Brett Taylor. That’s Michael. We appreciate you listening. We appreciate Anken Law for supporting us and sponsoring this pod 3126 million injury law made personal. And uh we’ll be back at you next week. Precise date TBD with the Christmas talk about that because it’s Christmas. Yeah. I don’t know what we’re going to do exactly. Christmas Eve feels like maybe the better play than waiting after cuz then you got the weekend. So, tentatively folks, look for us next Wednesday. Uh, and in the meantime, hope you have a great weekend and uh we’ll see what the Cubs do. Take care. >> Incin law. >> I already did. >> You did? >> Yeah. I like literally just did it >> now. They’re getting they’re getting a double dip, so it’s fine. But like now I’m thinking in my head, I’m like, what was Michael doing during that? I mean to be honest >> it was right then like I had >> my daughter has not been sleeping. [laughter] I’m so tired. [gasps] >> Addison leave this in and now you can cut it. Goodbye. [laughter]

Brett and Michael are back for the forty-third episode of the Bleacher Nation Cubs Podcast (Presented by Ankin Law)! With the offseason rolling along, the guys check in on the latest Cubs news, rumors, and roster questions as the front office continues shaping the team for 2026.

They discuss where things stand across the roster, what types of moves still feel likely in the coming weeks, and how the Cubs may be approaching the rest of the winter.

A special thank you to Ankin Law for sponsoring this podcast!
Visit Ankin Law’s Website ➡️ ankinlaw.com

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Chapters:
00:00 – Introduction
00:29 – Cubs in the Relief Market
09:56 – Brad Keller & Pete Fairbanks
23:10 – Adding a Pitcher & Bat
37:07 – Transaction Game!

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