What Comes Next for the Maple Leafs? | Real Kyper & Bourne
Come on in and settle down for the next two hours. The real Kipper and Borne show. We are live on Sportset 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Can always catch us at your convenience over your holiday shopping. Maybe just download us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Nick Ciprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKe, Jake the Snake Schultz, and Derek Brando in our Leaf Hour edition. Of course, we go off the rails Friday. Doug Mlan at the top of the hour as well. And uh we got a leaf line, Sammy, where we get to hear >> Do we ever >> other people describe what’s going on with the Toronto Maple Leafs? Let me ask you what’s up. >> I was just gonna say before we get into >> Yeah. >> I I love Justin Bourne. Very Christmy fellow, especially with that shirt on today. Looking incredibly Christmy. >> But today is sort of like the quote unquote, you know, last day before Christmas here at at Sports Fight the Fan. >> And my man Borney brought in conservatively 2,000 Timbits. 2,000 Timbits. And what he didn’t realize is that no one is here. No one. >> It is a It is a absolute ghost town near us either. They’re on the other side of the room here. People usually are. >> We had two separate boxes of them. I’ve honestly had like conservatively 10 Tims. Like I’m I’m running on sugar. >> It’s got to be a Thursday next year. That was a thing to miss on my >> So Mr. Christmas uh is giving us all Yeah. I’m just sugared up. So let’s go. >> And thanks to all of you out there. Merry Christmas from >> God, you look good. It’s bright kid. >> I love it. >> Jacob Chicken scored twice last night uh in a Washington Capital shutout over the Toronto Maple Leafs. Uh we got the next hour to sort a few things out. >> Uh but before we get started, you know, Sammy, I got to tell you, man. >> No, we’re good. >> Watching Lee talk again. >> No, no, no. Just >> listen. I love that you are through and through the biggest leaf fan. I’m I’m a little shaken up this morning >> because for the first time you had a little trouble hanging up the Toronto Maple Leaf jersey. >> Oh yeah, I consider not doing it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it kind of breaks my heart a little bit. >> There was a suggestion to hang it inside out. >> Oh no. >> That would be like hanging the flag upside down or something. >> No, no, no. >> Going full World Series 92 here. just >> that that jersey is royalty, man. And it will always be royalty. >> Uhhuh. >> And that it’s not the jersey. >> I know. >> It’s not the jersey. Like maybe the only thing missing maybe from the jersey is maybe a disclaimer that says that you know this the people underneath this jersey don’t necessarily reflect our standards >> or you know tradition >> that we’ve come to expect. >> Symbols change meaning over time of royalties is how it feels right. >> It is the black jersey like they’re the one that’s you know the most probably Gen Z jersey possible. So maybe it does reflect the the players in the in that wear it. >> So >> um we uh we know that we’re flooded with our regional games coming up. >> So many >> they >> so many timing. >> Well, it might be. >> No. No. Well, we we needed we needed a little bit more ho ho ho last night from them. >> But you know what? We are there for the people when it’s at its roughest to tell them the truth. They they’re going to get a real broadcast over the month of December here. We’re we’re telling it like it is. >> Uh I know uh the next hour will be heavy on on Craig Baruby. Did he Is he becoming more truthful now a little bit even through the media because we’re getting a sense of of real frustration and maybe more honesty in terms of how he now looks at his hockey club. Is that what we’re getting? Well, I think when you try to do the coaching through the media thing for so often, like after the Blackhawks game and you say it was a character win, it was a gritty win and you try to put that stuff in your and it just doesn’t work. Yeah. >> What’s the point? What’s the point in gassing the guys up if the the car won’t go? >> We’re going to get into tons of Ruby stuff like you said, but so he did his postgame press conference last night, which has been all over the internet, all over everywhere. like the first real cannon event postgame from a Leaf’s coach in a really long time. Like I I you know there’s been a memorable >> there’s been you know he co soft and purposeless was a big one with with Keef but then he immediately walked that back. So there was that but then this morning often times Leaf’s coaches >> after they go a little they go a little >> they go a little bananas in the post game. Usually they come back with a more like a different tone. I listen to him after they practice today in Washington. They stay in pra practice there. >> Not a different tone. No, >> like a different tone in the fact that he sounded a lot different than he has in years, but much like last night. >> Is our first uh Kipper Clipper from Ruby from last night or today? >> It’s from last night. >> Okay, let’s get let’s get his overview of what he saw last night. >> You know, we had power play opportunities. Power play was not good. Um it’s got to be a lot better. And to me, they played with more passion than we did tonight. I mean, that’s what it boils down to. It It looked to me like they had um >> way more urgency in their game, more passion in their game. That’s the difference. >> How do you explain that considering where you are at the stand? >> Pass those guys, not me. >> Is it disappointing for you? >> Was that our Luke Fox? >> Yeah. See, Luke gets it. I don’t know about a lot of guys down there, but he He he he gets it. >> He felt an exposed nerve and went a little more on that. >> But it’s just a it is a natural followup. >> It’s a great followup and to be able to think like I see people >> on the internet be like, “Oh, they never asked.” I was like, >> for him to stand there >> and hear that answer and be ready to respond with that in that little moment is really great work. So, as a journalist, >> do you even need to hear from Craig Buby after that, or are you just going right back into the dressing room and going, “Your coach just asked me to ask you where the passion was tonight?” >> I just did they go they go coach first then players for coach. >> But did did did anybody get that thrown? Maybe they were on the bus already. Maybe it was over. I don’t know. >> Did Did they Did they shower last night? Did they need to shower LAST NIGHT? >> I LOVE IT. I love it. >> HERE WE GO. WHAT’S a junior coach lying to me? >> Yeah. >> I don’t know. Is it Is that not a followup? Is that not a follow-up question? Your coach just asked me to ask you where the passion was because he didn’t know and he didn’t want to answer the question. He wanted you to ask answer the question. >> So, can I ask you just before we get into anything else, do you like what Burubet said? >> Yes and no. Yes and no. I like it because I I come on here all the time and say just tell us the truth. We’re not dumb. You know, we know it didn’t go good, whatever. And so I I like that he came out and said, “Yeah, brutal, no passion, no urgency.” I like that. What I don’t like is that there’s no next step where it’s like what we need to do is cuz I wrote about this today where where we’re left is him going, “I don’t know. I got no solution.” >> Yeah. >> Uh yeah. I I JB just nailed it. I think from a pers from an honesty perspective to at least having your fans go, thank you because we see what you see, but it draws a line in the sand. >> And I’m not sure that’s a good thing either. That that is a comment probably that should be shared with Brad Tree Living or someone within the organization that if someone’s asking you, if your general manager is asking you where the passion was, I think that’s an internal circle, small circle answer. I just I’m not sure if it it benefits to your point of where’s the build now. If if I’m a player now and obviously I’ve I’ve got my own issues going on with my game, I don’t know what that does when they listen to that. The one thing we have said for a long time is that we’ve been surprised at the lack of accountability and how rare it’s been for someone to say these sorts of things. And this feels like the magnifying glass and the sunbeam aimed at the players here that like, okay, it’s uh it’s on you now. And and Bub’s basically said, you know, he’s shining that light so bright at Burns, but it’s uh it’s going to going to be interesting to see if they respond or fold. Not that you can fold harder than he did last night, but >> I you know, since they’ve really sucked 2015, 2016, I can’t remember. You know, I’ve watched a million games, so this could be anecdotal, but I can’t remember a game where they’ve generated as little as what happened last night. Like they what do they have 22 shots? It could have been Yeah. >> two shots. >> What was the high danger? like what I I just it felt like they weren’t in the middle of the I I I don’t watching that game if you’re a general manager of a team would be one that would be a turning point in terms of what you’re thinking about your team for me where it’s like yeah they had that miracle comeback against the Chicago Blackhawks and you’re thinking of going into that third period but watching that last night like that didn’t even look like a professional outfit boys it was really bad >> maybe they’re really sick I know there’s people sick >> hope so >> that third period was gross >> gross >> 0 for five on the power play let’s Get Craig Ruby’s thoughts. Clip two, Derek. >> Well, the power play’s actually been getting better, but tonight it was it got awful in my opinion. I thought um the other unit did some good things, you know. Um they had a couple opportunities and just just you know, the misfire didn’t go in couple ch they had some good chances, but our top unit um didn’t execute. um didn’t win any battles when they needed to. Just couldn’t make plays. >> JB, you you uh in our intermission talked about uh what you what you liked out of the second unit a lot more than than the first unit >> also did the lost battles >> there. There was a sense too that Barubi liked it also and was using them more. And there was a couple of subtle messages including not starting a power play at 2 minutes when it was over a minute of a rest with a time >> with a soft timeout. >> Yeah. >> And they easily could have gone back out there, but he sent a message only I think it was on an offside 20 seconds later he puts the big boys out. And I’m like it’s like being a little pregnant here. You’re either in or you’re out on the message sending and >> that drove me crazy. >> 20 seconds later, you put the big boys on like, “Oh boy, boy, you really felt that one. Hey, I showed you. You not starting for 20 seconds.” >> It does feel like >> bothered me. >> Coaches are unable to keep the finger on those guys like when they want to show them. How many times would like Willie Knander even with Sheldon Keefe, bad game, bad game, bad game, down to goal in the third period, he plays 11 minutes of the third period or something. Doesn’t matter. We just need him out there. You know, it it we haven’t seen a coach really be able to stay on that top group, but on the power play, >> uh couldn’t make passes, didn’t win any loose pucks. Like the other unit moved it around a bit. Still wasn’t awesome, but yeah, it was it’s >> I I think >> dysfunctional. >> I think they last now. >> This the thing is that we’re all like, “Oh my god, the second unit like it’s so much.” It’s not. No, >> but like they just look in comparison, they look so much better than they have. Like I just like >> it’s hard to fathom. I We’ve been beating a dead horse in this thing all year, but the horse is still lying at her feet. Like I >> take the horse away. Bring a new horse. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that was maybe too on point to metaphor. >> Yeah. Sammy, do we have the captain commenting on uh on the power play? >> Yeah, we do. Um, Derek, clip two from Matthews, please. >> We get in there and we make, you know, couple good plays and then, you know, it’s like the next play uh isn’t the right play or it’s not executed the right way or it’s just one and done. Um, 515 and on the power play as well. So, um, you know, things are feel like or felt like they’re moving in the right direction obviously on a night like three. um you know when you have that kind of effort in all areas of the game and um you know you get point down the road it’s obviously you know not a good feeling but um I don’t think it’s it’s personnel or it’s any of that stuff it’s it’s simply just execution and >> doesn’t think it’s personnel >> that’s the one that stood out for me not me it’s not Willie it’s just >> it’s not working >> it’s not us it’s not us it’s not personnel it’s not us. Uh, yeah, it is you. >> Yeah, it kind of is you. >> It is. >> So, but I think to your point, is this maybe >> the player pointing at the coach, them saying it’s >> it’s just not holding yourself or each other accountable? It’s going back to our earlier conversation where I didn’t like 50 minutes of Chicago and everybody wanted to focus on just, you know, let’s get the energy up and get your hand on your ear there, Austin, and let’s focus on, you know, the the seven minutes, the 10 minutes, the three minutes, and not the issues that we have going on. And he’s still last night. It’s not personnel. >> Won’t own it. I feel like sometimes these guys are just kind of saying words they know that people say. Like I don’t know how much thoughts going into it’s not personnel. I don’t know that. You know, you know what I mean? >> Like I’ve said it a million times. The reason I don’t cut this is because he’s trying to say things as fast as possible to get through it as fast as possible to stop doing it as fast as possible. That’s he doesn’t which is not good. No. I’m not saying that that gives him a pass, but I’m just saying that like he’s not taking this as an opportunity to say something inspirational to the fans and players through the media. He’s just not going to do it. He’s just trying to rush through it. >> You know, watching that last night in the first, I thought the top line was doing an overload. They’ve been a 131 forever. So, like I thought they tried to change some structure, which didn’t work. They, you know, the doi was coming up and out of the zone. Like, they’re trying things. This is what I mean. That article I I wrote today is a lot about how they’re just like I don’t know. >> There was a lot >> I don’t know. I got no answers. >> I think you went home and you wrote and you wrote and you wrote. I don’t even know if you slept last night. >> There’s a lot of words. I apologize. >> No, don’t apologize. You had a lot to say >> this morning. I was like, “What can I cut from this?” And and I did cut stuff. You did? But yeah, there’s still a lot of >> And please go read uh Justin Bor’s article on sportsnet.ca because uh uh I mean he he he does talk about a lot of things, but the one that stuck out the most for me in your article is if Craig Buby can’t find the answers, then look for someone else who can. >> You know, if you handed me the keys today, this is what’s hard about the team and said, “You’re the coach. What’s the first thing you do?” I don’t even know where to start. Like my point in saying that is like there’s not like five or 10 pieces that are going good right now that you would build around. And when everything when there’s no structure, you know, at some point it’s like, okay, well, you have to have some answer somewhere or else someone will. I I’m not calling for Craig Ruby to get fired. That’s not my intent when I wrote that article. I just laid out a whole bunch of >> But it is leaning towards that if you can’t get them going, then go find someone else that can. Well, I I I guess it’s like I lay out what I believe to be a bunch of truths about where they at, and if you disagree with any of them, go ahead and tell me which parts. But it’s like power plays bad, best players are bad, people seem frustrated, coaches don’t have answers. >> I I do I I get it. I’ve been around professional sports long enough to know that when you’re when you’re seeing this over a long prolonged period of time, something has to give. Usually it is a firing. It’s a trade. It’s someone getting sent down to the miners. It’s someone getting waved. It’s someone to say, “Go home and and we’ll call you when we need to trade you.” Whatever it is, something usually generally follows. And I’m not that far off to thinking that they do need to do something. But where you and I differ is I’m just tired of it’s the coach. >> And especially with this particular group where I look at, you know, who’s who’s the longest guy, Morgan Riley, >> you fire Craig Bruby, he’s on to his sixth coach. >> Six. and Austin Matthews now in 10 years four coaches maybe it’s not the coach and like where do you go JB where do you go if you want to sit there and say okay go find someone else that can >> and it’s Peter >> Dbor >> do you really think right now this is the time to do that and will it truly make a difference because I get the sense now that if you move off a Craig Bubby, all we’re going to be looking at is a Peter Horchuk coming in and buying time until you find your Mike Babcock. >> I think part of Well, I think they think he is Mike Babcock. He would cost money and he’d be the biggest name out out there. I think that’s the idea. But part of the frustration I think that Craig Barubi probably has is a little bit like if I said to you, “Okay, I need you to build a fireplace out of only chocolate.” And it’s like, “What? How do I do that?” Like he’s like looking at his pieces and he’s like, “I can’t do that.” So Ruby’s point, look at his roster, is like, “I don’t have the horses. You guys don’t have no one can do the thing that you’ve asked me to do with these people here.” So that’s what you’re talking about. But I I look at this group and over the years they they really you can’t start over when you have Austin Matthews not trading a guy at his all-time low who’s been as good as he’s been recently. And maybe you disagree with that, but I don’t think you’re getting better by trading good players. There’s a whole history of NHL teams trying to fix problems by getting rid of good players. Mitch Mner included. That didn’t help. The, you know, the idea that you’re going to get rid of these guys. I I I think the only thing you can do if you’re MLSSE is there’s an article today about ticket sales, support them as best you can and hopefully fill in around them with guys like what was it Ryan O’Reilly in the years that they had real chances to have success because I don’t think Kip stripping these guys is going to make them better. >> No. No. But you know what will eventually get you better? Getting rid of them. >> I mean, what’s that? What are you talking about? Like you want to trade >> maybe >> Riley Matthews? Maybe, maybe >> there’s not enough good players in the league. Where are you getting the next version of those? >> This is what you call a retool or a rebuild. This is what happens. It’s a cycle, JB. And it’s just looks to me like it’s starting to run its course. >> You can sit there and hope that Peter Dbor could come in here and Austin can light it up again, but do you really like those chances, JB? I just know that I don’t like the chances, but I know it’s a lot easier to do that and find out if that’s the problem first before you do what you’re talking about. Good players are going to get >> But you’ve done that three other times with three other coaches >> at varying points for various reasons. >> But if I can jump in on that, like Ryan Ryan Nan Hobbins has had nine coaches. Like David and Dryidle have had five coaches. Like all these guys have had a ton of coaches. I don’t want to bail him out either. But to Bourney’s point, like I’m way more ready to have a rebuild conversation than I probably should be. Like don’t get me wrong, >> I’m ready to have it. >> Like I am I’m teetering on that every day I watch this team. But I think before you go down that road in this off season, >> if you think this season is sort of worth seeing what you like, maybe Matthews and Knander just aren’t as good as we thought they were and maybe that’s but like try a different coach. maybe try something else that’s and then if you get to the end of the year and it still looks like this with whoever you bring in then we can have that conversation. That’s where I’m at on I guess more on Bourney side. >> There’s two other reasons why I think that makes sense right now and you said you really believe that this someone could come in and turn it around. I think about doing that in 2019 came in the end and the Blues end up winning the cup. There’s talent here. You know there’s not no talent. You know >> there’s there’s not as much as you think. Well, maybe, but they’re fair. >> There isn’t, >> but they’re better than this. I think I think don’t think that’s unreasonable to say. But the other thing is that the East is the worst I’ve ever seen. >> And this is a year where you string together five wins and a dead cat bounce of a new coach and you’re in playoffs and actually in a good seed. So, if you take this simple step, one man in, let’s see if a new message, new system, new structure, new lines, new voice works, fine. If they’re still terrible, you’ve got your answer. And then it’s a much harder equation for that. >> But it’s so complex, guys. So, off the top of your list, uh, coaches. Yeah. So, would you move Biruby out and put someone in on an interim or do you want to go uh hit the home run with Peter Dbor? >> Yeah. So, it’s got got to be Dbor. I don’t believe ever that the inim thing is good. you’re you’ve quit on the season if you do intro. >> So, let’s kind of just move this a little bit to Peter Dbor who we believe is the number one guy out there. >> And I’m Pete Dbor and I’m watching this from afar. >> Okay. >> And you got 40 games to go. >> Is this what I want right now? Do I want to come in in this environment and like and people now expect me to turn this around? Like 40 games is a lot of games still for Peter Dbor to come in now and not move the needle and not be a guy that can motivate Austin or Willie to the point where does he really want to tie his can to that group right now? >> Totally a fair question. >> Okay. or do I wait? Hire me in March and April when I know you guys are done and I don’t get to be associated with this. I come in today. I’m associated into this losing for another half a season and that’s not a good thing for me. >> That’s a quitter’s attitude. Turn it around wants to try to have success. >> But you don’t >> that’s hiding. >> No, it’s not hiding. It’s a timing issue. I need to be separated from this group. I can’t I can’t win with this group. That’s what Peter Dbor has to answer. >> Well, if he looks at that group and says, “I can’t win with this group.” He’ll never take the job, >> right? >> No, you can take it. You could take it uh in the summer. You could take it >> with a group you don’t think can win. >> Well, no, but but this is where it gets complex for Dbor is that he comes in, he doesn’t move the needle, and we assume the guy that hired him was Brad Tree Living. Brad’s sticking around after this horrific season. You really think Brad’s sticking around? >> Listen, if they turn it around, he is. If they don’t, he’s probably not. You’re right. >> And Peter Dbor has now a new general manager. >> Well, Peter Dbor is not, you know, a firsttime coach. He’s, you know, we coach 16 people know he’s a known >> It doesn’t really work that way, though. No matter what, no matter how many wins you’ve had in your career, whether you’re the top rated, you like to know that you’re hired by the same guy who’s going to be there with you for the next few years. >> You’re creating a fantasy where Peter Dbor does wouldn’t want this head coaching job. >> I don’t think he’d want it right now. >> Well, and that’s fine. If that’s the case, then you need to find another solution. If you believe that Craig Bubi, >> tell me who. >> If you believe that Craig Barubi is not the guy for the job, you cannot proceed. you you have to make a decision on something. That’s just that’s a conclusion you’ve reached. It’s like being in a relationship and you’re like, I’m going to get a divorce, but like in a year like how’s that year going to go? You know, >> if you really believe that Craig Bruby isn’t the guy, then the safest thing that Brad Tree Living can do is move Leon into his spot. >> No, I’m just telling you that’s it’s reality. He’s an former NHL head coach. He’s been there. That is safer. You you you tag him with intram and he is the Peter Horich for the rest of the season. >> Keep >> So that’s that’s what they’re going to do. >> That’s more realistic for me than Peter Dbor to come in here and be the savior. Peter Dbor doesn’t want that. >> He doesn’t want it. >> But I don’t know about that. >> Oh, no. Wait, listen. He could take the money and run. >> They pay. >> Okay. If they pay Yeah. You got to overpay here. For me to come in, put my reputation on the line with this particular group. >> Totally. >> You better pay through the nose. >> And you know, I heard my boy JD talking about this on his show today, too, and it’s it’s relevant to this conversation, but like you’re talking about what this season has shown us about this group. It’s a bit bigger resume than just this season. >> Like it’s like like in terms of >> what this group’s potential is. And it’s like, oh, so you’re going to fire Brew mid-season to get the dead cat bounce of these guys that have never been able to win a big game in their entire >> at their worst in the first round. How’s that going to go? >> It’s like, you know what I mean? It’s just it’s that I can see Kipper’s perspective where it’s like, what are you >> what’s the bounce you’re hoping for? >> You’re right. And there’s a, you know, I look at these guys too and the only reason that I think this bounce is is something worth pursuing is we’ve seen Willie Knander this year be exceptional and he’s been a dog for a month, >> nine days, nine games now without a goal. >> Yeah. And looked bad for worse than that. >> Yeah. >> You know, like we >> Tavvar hasn’t had a power play point in almost a quarter of the season. >> N has a goal and two assists in in the month of December. It’s been like 10 games. Yeah. like Tavar like these guys. We know these aren’t this bad these guys. So the hope you’re not going to win without them being great. So maybe someone else has that. Now do I believe that a coach is going to come in they’re all going to be great and it’s going to be awesome. No. But you can’t not try. You know I don’t I don’t The other alternative is if you truly don’t believe you don’t want to fire the coach. Then we sit here and go how are we rebuilding? How are we retooling? Who are we trading? But you got to try. >> Yeah. I know you got to try, but there there is and and this has happened many times in the course of history where you also >> can dig yourself in a deeper hole. >> Totally. Okay. Huge. >> And you can even do more damage to your organization, no matter how much you think they’re they’re flawed already. You can even make it worse. >> Rasmus Anderson coming in hot. Eight-year contract. And there’s another first gone. >> You got to be careful here. You don’t want to sink this. If if you if you’re looking at a retool or rebuild, maybe you can do it in three or four years, but you make some bad mistakes from here on in, you could be looking at seven or 10 years. Well, you you got to be so careful. >> This is a conversation that we had during the first sort of slide, the fivegame losing streak where it was looking really grim there in November. And the question I asked both of you guys is how how you know incentivized is this front office to save this season? How desperate are they going to be to save this season? And that’s a worry that bounces around in my mind. Are they like should they be? >> Well, it I I think that being the GM of the Leafs is a great honor and embarrassing to do bad at and I don’t think you’re just I I think that they’ll do a lot to try to turn around. But if you’re Brad Shiv and you position this to Chiv or the board or whoever you’re like where you’re like, “Hey, my moves haven’t gone well here. Clearly, it’s been a bad start to this season. It’s not >> give me a chance to let me retool this and we look to head to next season.” But if Bray, >> it would also buy you a couple years. >> Well, if Tring thinks that like this is it, >> the fans should be terrified. >> Listen, >> cuz it’s like they have two assets, right? >> That’s common. That’s that your point is very common for any general manager who’s feeling the heat. But Brad Tree Living already has a reputation for a guy that’s overcautious, makes a ton of calls, is at times hesitant to pull the trigger. He ain’t turning around and and now rifling off moves to save his ass. He’s not that man. He’s not that man. I I assure you he will not >> he will not purposely >> no say to hell with everyone else. >> Exactly. He will not it’s not he will not >> throw anything up in the wall just to save his job. He’s >> I agree >> too honorable of >> he can’t get a next job either doing that >> doesn’t work. >> Listen you know people are judging him now on Calgary and Toronto. So to your point, like he if he if he’s not here next year, he wants to stay in hockey, I’m sure, and and >> he wants this team to do well >> and and find another chance somewhere. And you’re not going to do that if if it gets even uglier >> from here on in. Mhm. >> But if you So to go back to the original thing, if you’re desperate to save this season and you don’t feel like there’s a lot of assets that you have and there’s a lot of things that you can make a move on, there’s one move that they always do in sports and it’s they fire the coach to try to get the bump and maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t, but maybe they don’t do that. Maybe they just continue to play well. Like >> yeah, >> I I hate I’m on your side of the bailout situation. I don’t want to necessarily be like, “Here you go, guys. Here’s somebody new.” Like I don’t love the perception of that. Do I think Ruby’s a terrible coach? No, I really don’t. But I just think these guys are sick of them and the way he’s talking last night. He sounds like he’s kind of sick of them. >> Sick of them. For sure. For sure. They’re sitting around. >> That’s what’s going to be interesting from here on in. He drew a little bit of a line in the sand. >> I would like to see the Bubby who says if I’m going down, I’m going down my way. Like Austin’s going to sit out a game. uh you know like you know I’m going to talk about it in the media like I really see it. We’re going to do it my way for a bit here. I I think that’d be a good thing for the team. >> Hey I mean >> you got my support on that. >> You got to press another button at this point. You got another button. >> They went out for they went out for dinner for his 60th of coaches and the trainers. It’s like boy that would have would have a a GoPro like that Uber that the Ottawa Senators had. There’d be some conversations I’d like to hear at that dinner. >> You might have get suspended for more than two games like the Philly broadcaster did. >> Yeah. No hot mics at that dinner. >> God, that’s a risk every day. >> Um, did you want to So, there’s another quote. I mean, the concern that his message isn’t getting through. There’s stuff from today at practice. >> What do you like, Sammy? You clipped it. >> I clipped a lot of stuff. >> Yeah, tell me what you like. >> Let’s Let’s go to today. Clip five. He was asked this morning sort of how do you feel a day later? Clip five, please. >> Digest. >> Pretty much same as last night. Um, you know, I think come out in the first period. I think we’re ready to go and and things are fine. We get a couple we get power plays, did some killed some penalties. Um, you know, and we had a few looks on the PP, but just seemed like it unraveled after that for us. Um, you know, they they scored a couple goals in the in the first period. They were defendable. You know, it’s not like they did anything spectacular. You know, we just we they’re actually, in my opinion, they’re pretty easy defendable goals. But in saying that, we got 40 minutes to play and for me, like I talked about last night, um you know, we got to do more like as a group and uh push have more push back than we had last night in that game. >> So, were the players available today? Uh yeah, there I think. >> Did anybody follow up? And I assume, you know, and I I’m not in the rink. I’m not a beat reporter. I assume that they send the players out first, then the players go back or on the bus and then Craig Ruby speaks and then there’s no opportunity to go back to the players. >> I don’t know. I just >> I don’t know. I Somebody’s got to answer to >> what happened. I’m supposed to ask you. That’s what your coach asked me to. >> So, the third goal is the one that puts him away. Uh where Jacob I mean, nice shot, but what was happening on the left side of the ice there? >> Was that Bobby McMahon stop? Yeah. Yeah. Brian stops. Thun stops. >> Thun just got caught flatfooted >> and McMahon doesn’t. >> Statue of Liberty. >> That’s the one on the change where McMahon just gives him the Matador >> wave into the zone. >> Go get him. >> Not fun to watch. >> Go get him. >> Yeah. Oh, touched him. >> That actually is McKe level. Brit peely. >> Like I rarely look like an NHLer, but that was me. >> Like in basketball, maybe I’ll get his eyes. I can’t get the shot. >> Chicken was toying with him last night. >> Looked like he was trying to make five. >> I would say that the two guys on their team that’s trying to make team Canada, uh, Tom Wilson and Chicken, >> both made a extremely strong case. >> Yeah, they sure did. No. >> Uh, yeah. Anyway, I feel bad for Hill to be >> Yeah. who by the way was absolutely fine >> showing hard there at least. >> Yeah. >> Um >> we should break here. >> Yeah, we should probably break. Go. >> Okay. As you’ve probably just witnessed or heard, >> we’re out of ideas, but our Leaf line will have plenty. I am so looking forward to hearing someone else besides the three of us >> talking Toronto Maple Leafs. >> Going to call in. >> It’s a similar tone, boys. No, no, no, no, no, no. >> But it’s real. All right. Everybody’s call is real and we can’t wait to get to them. After the break, more real Kipper and Bourne. >> Welcome back to the program. Nick Grios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKe. All right, Sammy, it’s Friday. >> Before we get to lease line, it’s it’s what you’d expect. Here’s a question for you. >> Oh, >> I don’t know. I cuz it’s the big roster freeze happens at 11:59. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Leafs have a backtoback this weekend where they’re in Nashville Saturday night followed by in Dallas on s on Sunday. I mean if they play like that I mean they’ll lose to everything. They lose to the Marlins if they play like that. Like does it apply to coaches? >> The freeze. >> The freeze. >> No I don’t think so. No you can. >> But humanity what are you asking? Can a coach get fired at Christmas Eve? >> If they lose both the games on the I’m telling you, if they lose >> over an eggnog, >> if they lose both the games on the weekend by margin or something, >> can it happen >> or is it just not nice, >> Sammy? Professional sports man, it can happen. >> I’m just And I’m not talking per se if >> Yeah. Okay. It >> I don’t know about the Leaf situation, but this stuff is real. Nobody cares. No owner cares about his about Christmas if he thinks it’s best for his I don’t know $3 billion investment. >> Going through the start dates of head coaches in the NHL, >> 32 coaches in the NHL. There is one coach who’s been hired in the month of December out of them all. And there is three others in November. So pretty uncommon this time of year. The one coach is Todd McClung who was hired on December 26th >> by Detroit. >> Detroit. >> Yeah. >> Who got rid of >> Oh, okay. Uh, let’s go to the lease line. >> Oh, that was London. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it certainly was. >> He may get hired two years to the day. >> Uh, let’s go to I forget all the Let’s go to Monty from Nova Scotia to start. >> I love the show. I never miss it. Ever. So they say Bubi is a very good coach. I say a onetrick pony. Holy macker try something different. Easy to see they don’t want to play his way. Not the right players for his style anyway. Keer, what along with Carlo would it take to get Sherwood and stop wrapping the puck around the boards, which is about 80% of the time when no Leaf player is anywhere near the boards to recover it. Looking like a few lean years coming in. At least I seen him win one. Lord Stanley, this show is the best on TV other than hockey itself. >> Take care and merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. >> Monte, we love you too, buddy. >> We love you, too. Nova Scotia, you mentioned Sherwood. >> I do love Sherwood, but >> it’s someone I think could give up a firstrounder for him, >> you know, but that would have to be knowing for sure that you’re going to sign him >> and the the Leafs have no first rounders in the next two years. and another team’s going to go, I can do better than waiting for the 2028. >> Jimmy will be 90 by then. >> I don’t think that’s accurate. >> Well, in fact, Daniel Dale just called fact check. >> It will feel it will feel like he’s 90 waiting for the 2028 first round pick. >> Uh yeah, but I agree kind of, you know, the style he wants to play, they don’t play. And they desperately need a guy like that too. >> I sure would. >> Oh yeah, like that. But threequarters of the league could too. >> Just an engine guy in somebody’s face. >> Yeah, >> Marlar was dash four last night but was the meanest. >> He was my favorite player. >> He cross checks somebody. >> I know. I love it. Robertson and Cowan I still like almost every game. >> They’re skating hard. They’re doing things. I mean that’s how about that big dice move. >> They’re down two going to the third. get the 18-year-old to light up the two the $40 million men. >> He put them with uh Nelander and Matthew. I know. But then he put them out third. So, he’s trying to let the best guys in Washington go through. So, we’re trying to get our best two guys out there against their worst guys with our most enginelike play. They got hemmed in for a minute and a half and barely touched the hockey puck and then they went and sat back down. >> Thanks for playing. Geez, that was really >> Thanks for participating. >> Uh, let’s go to Rocco from Hamilton. >> I see all online about the coaching change and maybe Bub wasn’t a good fit and maybe that is true, but I don’t see anybody really talking about if Tr was a bad fit. I mean, he came over here and the guys who were under contract and I know Mner was walked, but when he did get here, Mner had what, two years left. maybe he wasn’t really the right GM to bring in and then him bringing in Buru doesn’t really make it Bubu’s fault. Uh team is a mess. They got spanked by Washington yesterday. And is this just still Shanahan fallout? I don’t know. It doesn’t I feel like Brew is taking too much heat and True Living Cloud taking enough. Anyways, thanks the the the point he made, >> it’s a good call. >> The point Roco made there is one that I think will always look back on as the turning point of this era >> is when Dubis got fired. It was right after was that this the the the fiveame series to to Florida? No, Florida in the second round. >> And >> it’s right when you could have Quinn Hugh Mitch Mner >> and he was like mad. And remember the whole like there was word that they were going to maybe trademar her and they had the ability to then because he didn’t have a full-nown move at that point. And then living comes in. They had to hire him because of all the stuff that happened. We know Kipper’s the maddest I’ve ever seen Kipper in this the history of this show after Dubis left. Electric radio. I still see the real on YouTube sometimes. It pops up of him yelling. I watch it once a month. It’s very good. But Tven just got here. His key card barely worked and he had a week to trade Mitch Martin. Totally. And it’s like he had there’s just no >> way where he could come in and be like, “All right, guys. Yeah, >> send your offers. You got a week.” >> But >> he did, but he got tricked. >> He was like, “Look at these guys. They’re amazing.” >> There was there was just that window too between MLS and Brendan Shanahan, too. And the last year, I’m not sure, you know, when Keith P came in, he kept Brendan Shanahan, but I don’t know at that point how much autonomy he had. And in all fairness, the decision with that window of Mitch Marner being traded or not >> shouldn’t have fallen on Brad Tree living. It should have been on Brendan Shanahan. >> That was an unfair >> That’s a great point. Okay. you know, here here’s the hot potato and it’s like it’s on fire the potato my hands are >> and at the end of the day at the end of the day when we look back at Brendan’s 10 years and to his fault >> he was tremendously loyal >> totally >> with Kyle Dubis to 346 91 >> 88 >> and 88 >> 29 >> and and andgan bets though like you know bet on the good guys and >> right >> they just didn’t They gave Morgan his second half >> and he gave them all no moves. When we look back, boys, the no moves were the kiss of death. >> All around the league, the no moves, they’re brutal. >> Yeah, camp has >> someone text I forget who I was texting with last night about Morgan Riley. I was like, when’s his contract 20? I’m like, oh 2030, it’s done. Like, oh, >> thought it was sooner than that. >> I gotta tell you, that one feels like it’s gonna happen at some point. They’re gonna have a chat in the offseason. I I really believe that Morgan like he’s still got some good hockey left. He just needs a fresh change. >> Wouldn’t he want to go at some point? >> Uh >> this one is going to Let’s go to Daniel from Toronto. >> I’ve said it many times, but this year really is different. I’ve never felt like this before. I’m numb. I’m only 47, but I’ve had too many scars. I remember the first one in 1989. The Leafs needed a win versus the Blackhawks in the last game of the season. just to make the playoffs. But in overtime, Todd Gil coughed up the puck in front of Alan Buster and Troy Murray scored. I told my mom I jumped out the window as I lost that game and she still reminds me wellness day. >> I hadn’t missed a game in 40 years. I listened to games on the radio. They were not televised. I missed family events. I got to school late when they’re on the West Coast. I believed in worse teams than this year’s team. And then 93, Destiny didn’t happen. The curse not even hiding itself, blatantly interfering, legit goals denied, phantom penalties, poetry, >> untimely injuries. This season really is different. I haven’t had beers with my friends for the first time in my life. I don’t know when it’s game day. I’m sorry I don’t listen to you guys every day like I used to. I don’t like this team. I’m sorry, guys. Sammy, is that your lost law uh lost brother? Were you guys were you guys separated? >> Can we get an address? Is he okay? >> Daniel, sorry, brother. Daniel, it’s okay. >> Sammy can relate. >> Oh, yeah. >> It’s only a game. >> I >> Long lost brother. >> I was very like I woke up like I haven’t been that upset about the Leafs. I woke up today. I was like, boy, this has been a long day. >> Uh let’s do let’s do Tim. >> Christmas break here. >> Let’s do Tim and Hamilton. >> Yeah. Here’s my solution for the Leafs. And I think this is what has to be done. Uh fire the whole staff and I want to put Kipper or in as the coaches because they seem to know a lot. They’re pretty good at uh telling everybody what to do. So put them behind the bench. Uh let’s bring Doug Mlan back from leisure world. Get them out of the old age home and put him in as general manager. And Sammy um you’ll be in charge of sweaters and sticks. I don’t know Sammy sweaters. You mess that up quite a bit. Maybe we’ll just make you stick, boy. But anyways, uh you’re a great team. Uh you love the the team. You love Toronto sports. >> You’re the guys I want to see there. It would be entertaining, that’s for sure. >> Wow. >> Nice. Tim, >> how do you think that would go? What do you think we would do with this team the rest of the way? >> Last five minutes. >> It’ be bad. Kipper would just mouth off the media immediately. He’d punch 100% worried about Mac more than Kip. Mac’s the main concern. I worried that we’d be going into the game, we’d be like, “Uh, I moved Riley and Matthews.” You know, I’d be like, “What do you mean, Doug?” >> For a condo, >> Doug futures real estate deal. Don would be going on some other radio show in 10 years be like that, Luke Fox. Uh, I don’t know how much we know how much more time. Let’s go. I could Yeah, sure. Let’s go to Costa M from Missaga. Hey boys, love the show. Um, quick take. Have you ever noticed or wondered how the Burke and T living era will be viewed the same as in, you know, Brian Burke saying, “We’re going to play with Traculins and Trin talking about playing with snot and DNA change.” And in essence, so far, both of these eras have the Leafs being a soft thing mentally and physically and other teams not really having a hard time playing against them. that hard game has not really been successful. If the Leafs continue to play as they do and they either bow out or don’t make the playoffs, what can this management team possibly tell us the fans after they were not able to change the DNA as they wanted to? Is there going to be more promises? I’m just not sure what your thoughts are on the two eras and how similarly >> the team has played and how the executives wanted to change the makeup of the team, but they did not succeed. Do you think they’re similar or you think it’s too early to compare? >> I I’ll just make one statement on this and then I’ll hand it off to you guys that Burke delivered what he promised. That team had Fraser, McLaren, Colton or he said they’d be tculent. He delivered truckulent. >> Yeah, they were >> Yasu Costa. This is it in a nutshell. From 1967 to present, anyone that’s played or managed the team, we’ve all failed. We’re all losers. >> No, I’m serious. So you can pick apart whatever you want. This had more. This had less. We didn’t get the job done. I didn’t as a player. They didn’t as managers. >> I wasn’t good enough to fail. So I’m even worse. >> What a hour of uplifting sports talk radio. >> We got to go. >> All right. >> Don’t go away. It’s only going to get uglier. Doug Mlan joins us next as we go national >> CJCL the real kipper and born show as we go national. We are live on sportset. Sports at 650 in Vancouver, 960 in Calgary, and always streaming on Sportsnet Plus. Also available on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube throughout your holiday season. This hour of real Kipper and Borne brought to you by Bet 365. In a few minutes, we’ll welcome in our off the rails Friday superstar, Doug Mlan. >> We got the cannon for him today. >> Got the cannon for remembered in the break. No, Kipper, we we made eye contact and as he was about to point >> Yeah. You always accuse me of purposely throwing you under the bus. >> Well, you usually do, but today you’re a nice >> But my if my eyes go in there like a second before we go on air, you’re cooked. >> That is such that is such a great spider. >> It is awesome. >> Thank god we found that. >> Also, later on in the program, we want you to text 59590. >> Send us your texts and we’ll read them on air. get 590 590 and we’ll read them after Doug. Uh Jar I think would be the biggest story from >> Yes. Uh we just saw Joseph Wall of the Toronto Maple Leafs kind of disappear. Craig Brewy said a week he wasn’t far off. I think it was >> a day. >> A week and a day. Thank you, Sammy. This doesn’t feel like a week and a day for the Edmonton Oilers, does it? >> No, it was like the second after it happened. It was like so Alex Lion to to the Oilers. Like rumors started almost immediately, >> but I don’t So >> how many how many assets can you now spend on goalies? >> Well, it’s like Colorado did the Blackwood Wedgewood thing. It’s like they needed to just replace the two guys. So I don’t know how how expensive is Alex L. >> Yeah. I don’t >> But like the thing with Jarry is like this guy gets hurt. He that’s kind of been part of the thing, right? Part of the concern. >> Yes. >> Doesn’t stay in there real good. It just really I mean that’s in terms of having confidence in your guy as like a new guy going in there. Having your first it was it his third game, his third start and like people get hurt all the time. I understand that. But just having it be such an innocuous play where you’re just sliding across and you go away and now you’re on higher. >> I didn’t pay attention when I played. Do goalies get this hurt all the time? >> They didn’t used to go post to post. They just stood up. >> It’s true. They used to just do that thing where they like kick their leg out. That was like their big >> lean on the crossbar and getting booted. >> They’re like, “Oh, he’s a fake slap shot. No one could ever stop that.” >> Actually played a lot of games, Jar. I gave him a hard time. He’s played a lot of games. >> Whatever it is, it worked. >> He could play 60 or 70 games back then. >> Yeah. No, it was definitely better for physical longevity. >> It just I would be if I’m McDavid and like I know they had to I guess they had to get rid of Skinner. Like I’m not going to do >> should have kept Skinner takes. >> No, I’m not going to do that. >> Yeah. But like if you’re McDavid, you’re like really game. >> You said something when I got here today where it was just like, you know, Kip’s almost always wrong. You said you said he’s almost never right. But then you said the Bennington thing he was bang on about. >> I actually said we were right about that. I I we It’s a shared >> You just had to spend the extra ass at whatever it was, and just get a guy you can at least point to his past and say he’s done it. >> He’d have to wave it. I don’t think it ever got to the point. Would he would he have waved it for sure? Right. >> Uh >> oh. >> Yeah. I don’t think we’ll ever know because it just it didn’t get to it didn’t get there. >> St. Louis any month is >> and I always believed even up with Sid Crosby is that like the time to strike is after the Olympics. But >> I don’t know who we had. Do we have Valley on last week or this last Tuesday where he said >> he likes goalies getting in there this early and he doesn’t like them at the trade deadline. It’s too hard. >> Not enough time. >> Ooilers are now 17 12 and six. They’ve won they’re 72 and one in their last 10. They just look really good. Last game PP goal shorty even scores every game. >> Like every game it’s like him and the goalie just in my screen and nobody else. I know. He’s staring down the goalie every game. >> Oh my god. >> It It’s so crazy to get on the ice with NHL players and see how good they are, then see how Conor McDavid looks. The gap in talent is just, it’s unfathomable. >> It’s, you know, when they say like Olympic events, you should have an average guy in every event for context on how hard the event is, which is a take I absolutely love. Watch me attempt high jump and then watch like an actual high jump. They they should have someone skate with McDavid just so people can see what it looks like. >> They should fire somebody down that ski shoot and shooting someone in the wrist. >> No, no, that’s not even what I meant. I meant the skilon. >> I meant the ski hill. I don’t know why I said shoot. >> All right. Ski and shooting. >> I’m an idiot. >> All right, let’s go to a piece of coal in your stocking. >> He’s light and bright. He’s not coal. >> No, he’s not. He’s Chris Kringle. Let’s welcome him in. Doug Mlan, former NHL president, GM, head coach, and now author all over again. Wrapping up another bestseller >> real estate. >> Hey, the book’s in. The book went into Simon and Schustster on the 15th. >> You submitted it. >> Awesome. The manuscript is in. So, uh, a little over a year to do it and, uh, I’m excited about it. I think it’s going to be pretty good. So, it’s a book on general managers, correct? >> It’s uh it’s going to be called Well, I don’t know what the main title is. Game Day or Game On. A day in the life, the chaotic life of an NHL general manager. >> Okay. So, if if you were to hand out, >> it’s sort of you could call it today’s Toronto Maple Leafs. Well, my my my question to you before you interrupted me was if you were going to hand the book out to one general manager in the NHL, who would it be? But I think you already just answered it. >> Well, it’s tough times right now. But you know what? I’m starting to not enjoy coming on this show because it’s very negative. You know, I mean, they’re only four points out of the playoffs, I think. six points out of first, Doug. >> Yeah. So, you know, but last night’s game was very disappointing to watch. Uh there’s no denying that. But look, there’s there’s first of all, you know, it’s you know, I I listen to you talk a little bit about what’s going on. There’s a lot more problems than just Matthews and Knander with this team. And and I and I’ll start right away. To me, they don’t have a number one or number two defenseman. They don’t They need people to transport the puck out of their zone to get it going, move it out of the zone. I know, you know, I like Morgan Riley, but he’s a number four guy now and maybe maybe a four or five guy, you know, so missing a top two defenseman. In my opinion, they don’t have that. And it and every good team has it. >> Every good team has a better back end. Yeah. >> So, that’s the start. And and look, when you change your identity, you you’ve got to be really careful. We talked a year ago on this show, the Nashville Predators changed their identity. They went from a a hardworking, hard checking team, their entire franchise, and all of a sudden they wanted to get skill and they brought in some skilled guys that happened to be older skilled guys on the downside. you know, with Marsha So and Stamco, still good players, but not anywhere close to their prime. And they changed their identity and they’re still struggling from it. The Leafs decided to change their identity and went from being a really skilled team to being a harder team to play against. Well, the challenge is when you change your identity, you still need skill to get in the playoffs. You got to get in first. Okay? You’ve got to get in the playoffs. and and there’s been a skill depletion in there in this group. So, you got to have the skill to get in and then when you get in, you got to be able to play heavy hockey. So, it’s a it’s a real interesting dynamic to build a team. And, you know, right now they’re flawed. They are. And I know Matthews hasn’t been good and I know Kneelander hasn’t been good and Tavaris was good the first 15 games and now he’s disappeared to a degree. Their power play is horrendous and I I leave the game last night thinking, okay, what you know what what do you some they need a jolt of something. They need a jolt. >> So you’ve been a president you’ve been a president and general manager. You’ve been in this scenario, I’m sure. And what is your jolt? Where do you look? Do you have to look under like the reason why you’re in this predicament first? Don’t you need to identify that before you go to a jolt? Well, well, I think they’ve probably identified it. I mean, I think they they all Well, the fans have, they think it’s buby. I mean, I look at this team, the way they play, it looks like to me they don’t want to play for this coach. And, you know, since the Leafs won the last cup, this will be the next coach I think will be the 20th coach. So, it hasn’t always it’s not always the coach’s fault, you know. So, I think that I would jolt them by making a change on the coaching staff. I would make a change on the coaching staff. >> Okay. So, you’re you’re >> and I’m not saying I wouldn’t fire right now. I wouldn’t let them off the hook, but I’d make a change on the coaching. And I I don’t know if his assistant coaches are letting him down. I mean, assistant coaches have got to be key key people when you’ve got key key players stumbling and struggling. It’s the assistant coaches that have got to get in their ear. You know, when you played, Nick, the assistant coach, the top assistant, the number one assistant would would work with the stars, you know, work with the stars and and work through the work through whether it’s head or whether it’s physical or whether it’s style. You you’ve got to work with these guys. And I don’t know what’s going on there. I mean, I know, you know, I I don’t even know the like I’ve met a couple of the assistants, but um I I think either change duties on the staff, bring somebody new in, do something. Do something. U you you know, you can’t trade Matthews, you can’t trade Knander right now. I mean, you’re you you’re you’re living with them. But why do you think the Minnesota Wild wanted to get Quinn Yu so bad? because they need a number one defenseman to win the Stanley Cup. You need a number one defenseman. And we can say how good the Leafs are and how great they are. I mean, their back end, I know Carlo’s out and I know Tanniff’s out, but they’re three, four guys. They’re not one two guys. And the good teams in the league have one twos. The good top teams. And even some bad teams have one twos, but the Leafs don’t in my opinion. And they haven’t for they haven’t for five years. When was the last number one defenseman the Leafs had? >> Ory Sming. >> Yeah, maybe. Seriously, think about it. They have that had a major hole. >> Yeah. >> Morgan Riley, we said for years Morgan Riley comes in as a first round pick, whatever he was, fifth, seventh overall. >> We said we always thought he was a good number two when he started in his career, but not a number one. Never perceived as a number one. So, you know, they’ve got great goalending. These kids have battled hard. These two the two young guys have battled really hard. Yeah, they’ve lost MNER, but there’s nobody that’s transporting the puck. We talk about Matthews missing Mner. What about what N is missing? N is missing Mner just as much to be quite honest when I watched him last night. I mean, he’s not getting the puck and key situations anymore. So, you know what it and and you said, you don’t you can’t get rid of good players, but if I was g and and we talked about this for a couple years, maybe the deal should have been knander for a number one defenseman. Maybe that’s what the deal should have been in the past. >> Is this bringing it back to Brandon Montour and Nick Richie? Are we back there from the old hockey? >> I don’t know where we are, but it’s >> looking a lot better now. >> Brandon Montour right now if I could get him and he’s not a number one. If you’re the president of the team or whatever your role is, GM of the team, you’re you’re watching your coach and he says, “Go ask him about why there’s no passion.” You’re watching your players who are kind of going, I don’t know, it’s not the personnel. You know, how how do you can you go to coup’s therapy? Have people ever worked through that dynamic with their coach and players where, you know, they they come through this okay on the other side? >> Look, you know what? coaches say those things every once in a while, you know, go talk to them. It’s not the end of the world in Toronto. I mean, there’s there’s 10 coaches a year would say that, you know, it’s not it’s not the end of the world, you know, but you know what? I I I guess I don’t have a clue what goes on in this dressing room. I don’t know what the communication is like. I would think Ruby is a pretty good communicator, but you’ve changed the identity. You’ve changed the identity and you’ve changed the style the team is going to play and the coach wants to play a certain way and this team does not want to play that way. So, there’s got to be a give here. Either the players have got to try to change or the coach has got to relax the situation and let them make plays and let them try to play their game. Will still battle in like Matthews was a real good defensive player. Where where has that disappeared to? He can’t he I mean he looks he looks like he’s a fourth liner times out there. He doesn’t really want the puck. I mean so I mean he’s too good a player for for this massive a drop off. He’s too good a player and Knander’s too good a player for this kind of drop off. Tiveres, well at least he’s 30 whatever he is. He’s got an excuse. He’s getting up there, you know, and he’s had a hell of a career. And, you know, I mean, maybe they shouldn’t have bothered bringing Tavveris back and signed a defenseman. Maybe that’s what they should have done. They allocated their dollars in different areas. You know, a four and a half$5 million defenseman might look pretty good there right now. And I love John Tiveras, don’t get me wrong, but that wasn’t your weakness going into the season. your weakness going into the season was your one-two hole in the back end. >> You’re watching and listening to the getting up there Doug Mlan on the real kipper and born show off the rails Friday. So, uh, how tough is it for Oiler fans who probably have felt that they’ve waited a really long time to to maybe cheer on a new goalie and then he kind of disappears on you last night in terms of a potential groin injury that might keep him out a couple of weeks. Mac, I don’t know if we’ve had you on since the big trade. >> We did. Okay. >> Yeah, you did. Yeah, you did. Um, and you know, what do they do? >> If if it’s if it’s two or three weeks, do they have to actually go shopping for another guy? >> Um, you know what? They’re going to get in the playoffs. Um, it looked like when he moved there, looked, you’re right, it looked like a groin. Let’s hope it’s nothing more than that. But he’s had injury problems, this kid, too, you know, and and it looks like he was playing pretty well for them. I I don’t think you know where do they find another goalender right now. You know >> Stallars maybe >> they talking about Lions >> is he ready? >> Alex Lion from Buffalo. >> But you know you know Edmonton right now are playing pretty decent hockey. So it’s a tough break tough break to lose them. But you know they’re going to get in the play. The west is pretty well set. It’s not like the east where it’s just so wide open. I’ll tell you what, if Buffalo get a little life here going, they may be they may challenge for a playoff. >> You know, you could >> they’ve won four in a row, Buffalo, >> have they? >> Yeah. >> But they’re still in last place. Does that give you some idea of how hard it is to move the needle? >> No, it it’s it’s almost >> it’s tough. It’s tough to move the needle to get to move the needle. But now we’re talking about every game is a three-point game all of a sudden. Every game is a three-point game. we’re seeing. Well, except for last night. But anyway, look, I I don’t know what I don’t know what they do. I mean, they need they they I think they’re not going to be able to make a deal. Probably it’ll be a secondary type of deal right now, but they’ve got to they’ve got to figure out the communication that’s going on in this dressing room. There’s something lacking in this dressing room. Something >> Oh, Edmonton. >> No, I’m talking Toronto. helping me out. They got a lot of mixed messages going on. >> Well, it’s Yeah. Okay. Well, the communicate I I guarantee you there’s a lot better communication in Edmonton there isn’t than there is in Toronto. So, somebody better start getting in players ears and really communicating. And I don’t mean barking at them. And I don’t mean, you know, t talking about straight lines. I mean, >> get a get a better mood in this with this group. >> We right now the mood is not good. Yeah, we’re talking about Buffalo quickly there and Yarmmo got hired. I thought you were going to tell us Jeff Rimemer is going to be brought in for communications. Is that any truth to that rumor? >> Well, he’s text he’s text Yarmmo probably about every 20 minutes since he got the job. So, I I think he’s probably just texting Yarmmo to give him advice, but I I I don’t know. I mean, >> he I don’t see Well, Jeff would only go back if it was a management job, you know. He wouldn’t go back to play by play. So, you uh you know, you like to make a big swing. You’re I can’t imagine that you saw the Quinn Hughes trade and didn’t absolutely love it the moment you saw it come out. >> Yeah, I kind of I I actually liked it for both teams, you know. I didn’t really know the uh the you know, the hot shot on the back end, but I loved it for Minnesota. I loved it for Billy Garren. They’re they’re they’re going for it, you know, and and Billy swings. He swings for the fences, and I liked it. I mean, they gave up a a decent price. I feel a little bit for Vancouver when you think about the guys they’ve lost. Just think about it. Uh, you know, you lose Miller, you lose Quinn, and you lose Bo Horvath >> over a two and a half year period. Those three players, you know, so, you know, hopefully it’s going to work out well for them. But, and, you know, Couldn’t use is a heck of a player, boys. I mean, there’s a handful of them in the league. There’s a handful of them in the league and every one of them are are difference makers on their teams and they’re hard to find. But I I can’t believe that that Billy was able to do it. I really was. I’m shocked by it. And all of a sudden, because of that acquisition, they’re a contender right now. >> They are. >> Now, I say today they’re right there with Dallas and Colorado. >> Wow. >> Right there with with them with their depth and with their back end. And if the young goalender keeps playing the way he is, they’re right there with the big boys. >> Do they not need a centerman? >> You know what? Yeah, they they might need one, but you know, I mean, I think they’re so solid on the wings that they can they can get away with where they are. Do you think with the return the Vancouver Conucks got that it would be incentive for other teams to maybe move a key guy? Not to bring this back to Toronto, but >> Oh, >> um you know what I I think you know that I mean it’s going to be fun to watch because in two years time they’re going to have to they’re going to have to look it’s like Columbus right now. Winsky goes off on the on the on the organization last night. >> You know, they got two years. Was it two years? So, Matthews is up. >> Yeah. But Jimmy Jimmy had two years, too. And he’s like, “Nah, not taking it.” >> No, that’s what I mean. You know, and he knew he knew the kid wasn’t going to resign. He knew Quinn wasn’t going to resign. I mean, if you were a betting man today, would you say Matthews is going to resign Andron? >> Me? No. No, I don’t think he, you know, >> I don’t think he is either. I’d be shocked, >> you know, and >> there’s a lot of people that believe there’s a bag packed already in his hallway. >> So, I mean, look, I I don’t know. I mean, what all I know is they are in desperate need of some of a couple of defensemen. Imagine this team if they had Quinn Hughes. Imagine if they had >> It’d be fun to find out what something like that would look like. But Doug, Quinn Hughes doesn’t come around very often and they don’t. >> No, they No. >> How do How do you get a number one D? I think you spend GMs spend their whole careers trying to figure that out. >> Yeah. I mean, look, they’re they’re tough to find. They are. And and typically you have to draft them. Typically, you have to draft them or you or you have to swing for the fence on a huge deal. And you know, but you look at every good team in the league, every team that’s a contender, they have a a top blue line. Every team that wins for 20 years has had a great >> Every team that wins the Stanley Cup, you think about the Neitaers and the Prongers and and all these guys, they were, you know, that’s that’s the number one thing. And for me, they’ve gone through the Toronto Maple Leafs have gone 10 years now and haven’t acquired a number one defenseman. They haven’t got one. Morgan Riley the closest they got. >> So, Matt, >> anyway, >> the um Pittsburgh Penguins were sold. Elliot said 1.7 uh essentially they doubled their money in like four years. >> Yeah, it was 900. They were Wasn’t it 900? >> Yeah, maybe. Anyways, really good return, I think, in a very short period of time. >> Not bad. >> You went the condo route, right? Maybe you should have gone into the ownership route. >> Yeah, I was I was just about 1.65 short. >> Can you believe though like where values have gone in such a short period of time and the demand? >> Well, I I like the fact Gary’s now saying it’s going to be two for an expansion team. >> Two billion for an expansion team. Is that true? Is that accurate? And and that’s with no building. >> You may have to come up with a building, too. >> Salary caps 150 mil. Off you go. >> I remember Mr. McConnell being upset when, you know, he paid 80 million for the Blue Jackets in 2000. 80 million. >> Too much money. >> That’s the catering budget on the Leafs plane. >> Florida and Anaheim. Florida and Anaheim, they were 50 50 million. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it’s it has gone up substantially. You know, there’s no denying. >> So, Mac, >> what uh if you’re Kyle Dubis, >> like what would be going through Kyle’s mind with a new ownership group? >> Um, well, there’d be a lot going through his mind. I I remember George Mcy when I interviewed him for my book said that he he walked on the on the floor of the uh of the new building in Washington and he looked into the seats and he thought 18,000 seats. That is my number one responsibility is to fill those seats >> really >> every night. And I suspect with Kyle when he’s looking into the seats and he’s seeing only 10,000 at some Pittsburgh Penguins games that you know he’d be a little nervous because a guy that’s paying 1.8 billion for the team does not want to see a building with 10,000 people in it. You know what’s funny though is I hear all you smart guys, you know, you being one of them there, Mac, you know, talking about, oh, you got to get butts in the seats and Kyle needs whatever. These men who buy these franchises are aware that winning leads to that and they would be in theory aware that rebuilds and some years or down years as you work towards that, would they not? >> Have you ever worked for an NHL owner? >> You know what? I have not had the luxury of having those conversations. >> Yeah. Yeah. They know they they think that you’re supposed to win every game. >> So rich guys are dumb is the end of this. >> No. No. I would never say that they’re dumb. I would say that they they look it’s it’s a exciting thing to own an NHL team. They know what they’re up against, but they they expect because here’s in my in my experience most NHL owners have been unbelievably successful businessmen. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So they automatically think when I put my fingers on this, it’s going to become very successful. What a lot of them forget about is that 90% of those guys got lucky. >> Yeah. Totally. >> They’re not all geniuses. A lot of them got lucky and made their money, you know, in in, you know, Mr. McConnell when he started this Worthington Steel in his garage probably didn’t think it was going to be a billiondoll company, you know, but so they they have a hard time relating to their successful business >> to the sports business that because it’s really hard to become successful. Very hard to become successful in the NHL. I’m not sure how many owners would answer would really know anything remotely about the CBA or a salary cap. >> Wouldn’t they come in and assume they would need some education in that? Like someone like say, “Hey, let me explain this.” >> Well, yeah, I know. I know. They know it’s the structure of a salary cap, but not how it works. >> I told you what Jim Basili said to me. I interview I he hired me as a consultant there years ago and I walked in his office out at uh what was the name of it? Blackberry. >> Yeah, Blackberry. So this is when he was trying to buy the Pittsburgh Penguins. >> This is this is when he was buying going to buy the Phoenix team. >> Oh, the Phoenix. Okay. And I said to him, you know, Jim, it’s the NHL is really really a tough business. It really is. And he said, don’t talk to me about the NHL being a tough business. I’m battling Apple and Noia. That’s tough. NHL isough compared to that. >> Yeah. And where did he end up compared to those companies? >> How’d it go? He was he was number one at the time. >> Apple passed him, I think. >> I’ll check the scoreboard here. >> So anyway, >> hold on. Let me check my Blackberry. >> He missed playoffs. >> So anyway, so look, it’s a it’s it’s a tough racket and I I mean I feel for them right now, but like they’ve changed their identity and they changed the identity of their coach. You couldn’t have two different coaches than the last two coaches of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Talk about a 360 between the last two coaches and they’ve changed their identity. Sheldon is not the same as Bubby. Would you agree? >> Yeah, I was questioning the idea that I have no idea how we got through this. >> I’m just trying to help the Leafs. That’s all I’m trying to be trying to be a non-paid consultant for Keith P. >> Yeah. Um, can you help the Jets out a little bit? Are we talking about the same team that we thought could win a Stanley Cup last year? >> Uh, I was I Yeah, I was thinking about them a little bit today. They really some of the guys they brought in just haven’t panned out. You know, it’s been tough. And Taves is one who I thought, you know, I know he was m missed a lot of time, but I really thought he would be a a secondary good piece for them. And it’s I feel bad that it hasn’t worked out. Um I watched them play St. Louis the other night. It’s they’re not a very good team right now. Wow. >> They’re not a very good team. >> No. >> That’s kind of shocking a little bit, too. >> Yeah. I mean, last year they’re hitting on every cylinder. I you know, I watched even Connor play the other night. You know, not he doesn’t look the same out there. He’s not as confident right now, you know, especially in the offensive zone. But and he’s a hell of a player. So, you know, will they get it going? Maybe. Maybe they will, you know, >> just that none of their new guys can score either, >> right? Nightquest, no nothing. >> Dav isn’t gonna do that. >> The measov nothing. >> They just got to lean on Logan Stanley. >> All right, Mac, what’s uh what are the holiday plans here for you? >> Well, the the kids are coming in on the weekend. Clark comes in tomorrow and McKenzie’s coming on Tuesday. So, it’ll be a relaxing time here in South Florida. They just get a little beach time in and a little pool time and few dinners out to relax, you know. >> So just like any day of the your whole life. >> Well, it is for me, but not for them. Getting to be with you is a treat. >> Every day is Christmas in your life. Well, I get just sort of I get kind of depressed when you know I listen to you guys private beliefs and you know I just I you know >> but I just I just like to come on on Friday and help. I I don’t know whether Craig’s listening or Tre’s listening or Keith’s listening but we try to help them. You know I >> Hey, they’re close. >> I talked to a table full of guys the other day and they go I got to tell you I make sure I don’t miss Fridays when Matt comes on. He said I got like a phone alarm set for when you guys got Matt coming on. I mean like this this guy’s moving the needle for us. >> What does that tell you about Sports Talk Radio? >> Times are lean. Mac, >> hey, do us a favor because Jill’s so good to us for letting you come on our show every Friday. Do us a favor. Go out and buy her something really special from us. >> Yeah. would >> Can you do that >> and just put your not not with your guys money but just to say it’s put our name on it. >> By the way, I like the cardigan. I like the cardigan look like you look like you’re going to prep school or something. >> You got a crest on there. Your old high school >> and we’re on a commercial. He’s been calling me Mr. Rogers ever since the commercial. So now I’m trying to make it a >> It’s a wonderful day in the neighborhood, Mac. >> And and yeah, and there’s no rebuilds in Toronto, by the way. I hear today they’re having trouble selling tickets there. >> Well, you did. Yeah. >> Winning solves everything. As you said, >> I look I wouldn’t have trouble paying $700 to watch them play. I mean, that’s what Berkey’s goals goals were 700. I tried to get them for a buddy of mine and and he was driving me crazy about getting tickets. So, I asked Burk, I said, “Perky, can you know, can I get a couple of your tickets?” He said, “Yeah.” He said, “I got two and they’re two gold 700 bucks.” So I said to the guy, “Hey, hey, I got two tickets for you and your kid. You said you want a good seat, 700.” He said, “What you said?” He thought he thought they were going to be $75. So he hasn’t phoned me for tickets since >> that that ship sailed a while ago, Mac. All right, we’re gonna let you go. >> Might be a chance to buy some, I guess. >> You know what? H have a great Christmas, man. Have a great holiday. >> Merry Christmas, Mac. Thanks for all your time this year. You’re the best. >> Yeah. Look, you guys have a great holiday season as well and uh you know, let it go. They’re they’re probably going to get in the playoffs, so just just relax and let it go. And I really appreciate that I didn’t have to follow Paul Maurice today. I really appreciate that. >> Take care, guys. >> Ken Hitchcock, >> Florida’s going again. >> Hitch’s name got into my book. Hitch Hitch’s name got into my book. He was disappointed he didn’t get in the last one. Well, he’s in this one. >> Was there any swear words just before his name or after his name? Or you >> Hey, >> what’s the opposite of an Irish goodbye? >> All right. All right. Go go go Mac. Go start your Christmas. >> Doug Mlan. Everybody. >> I mean, that truly was the Christmas party. Goodbye. Like, I’ve been to some Christmas parties. >> I know. You’re like, can I just get out? like, “Oh, let’s got my coat on and spend 45 minutes talking to somebody like, “Let’s go. We’ve made the decision to go.” >> Yeah, >> let’s go. I hate a long goodbye. You probably have in the You probably have a ton of >> I’m the bad guy for sure. We’re like, “We’re going to go like a long The goodbye started in the kitchen. >> We don’t even get to the >> Okay, game time. >> Uh, it’s game time by bet 365. Visit the app latest odds and see why it’s ever ordinary at bet 365 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Uh you you guys brought it to my attention or the break that there’s a boxing match tonight >> if you want to call it that. An exhibition >> Netflix >> uh >> find some sporting events. >> It’s uh Jake Paul, right, that’s fighting. Yeah, Jake Paul. >> He is fighting against a real guy today. >> Well, yeah. >> I’ve heard of Anthony Joshua. >> Was did he fight one last time? >> No. No, >> no, he he fought a guy he fought a guy like older than you. >> Okay. >> Which is old. >> No, no, no. He fought since then. He fought somebody else after Tyson. >> I think he did. And he was a retired kind of ex pro. >> Oh, did he fight? >> I don’t know. >> One of the great regrets of my life is not putting my life savings on Jake Paul in that fight. I bet a lot of Jake. >> No, but it’s on Netflix. You already have Netflix, so it’s free now. >> Yeah. But no, that’s all I’m talking about >> the pay-per-view for like 50 bucks. No, I’m talking about betting on J betting. >> But so tonight, >> why would you ever do that? >> Well, because it’s available. >> You assume it’s some rigged in some capacity. That’s why >> what I’m going to bring up is >> that’s like betting on wrestling >> tonight. >> It is like that very much. >> Tonight the line is available on bet 365. Jake Paul is a huge underdog tonight. He is plus 600 tonight on the money line. Anthony Joshua is minus,200. Is that a knockdown or is that a That’s >> just to win. >> So you can >> judge’s decision or you get knocked out is the same. >> There’s different ways you could do it. You could do it by KO or TKO. Like there’s lots of different ways to bet it. Okay. You can bet on the no the total rounds. How many rounds it’s going to go. >> By the way, I probably shouldn’t say >> there’s no reason to believe it’s rigged. There’s no history of this being a thing. I’m sure it’s on the up and up. >> Hey. Yeah. It’s it’s boxing. It’s >> right. Boxing. Totally clean. Boxing is >> totally clean. First, the the fight to go to the to go the distance, >> which >> that’s a good bet. >> I like a lot. >> Yeah. >> Is plus 333. >> It’s a nice bet. >> Right there. >> The fight to go the distance tonight between the two fighters. >> FIVE MINUTES FOR >> YEAH. ANYWAYS, uh that was game time presented by Bet 365. Visit the apps and see why it’s ever ordinary at B365. It’s 19 plus. It’s very only. Please play responsibly. >> Okay. Like every Friday since the inception of our show, we run out of things to say and we let you take over. >> Okay. So, I don’t know if this was just because we had Mac on. All he wanted to talk about was the Leafs, but all our texts are leaf related. >> So, somebody texts in from >> Halifax, from Montreal, from Edmonton, from Vancouver, from Colona, from the Yukon, from Northwest Territories. text in from there about someone other than the lease or else we’re going to be doing a 100 lease texts. So text in 590590 text sends talk >> and we’ll read them on air when we return to real kipper and bourne. >> As a reminder, this hour of real kipper and bourne brought to you by bet 365. Nick Kipel’s Justin Bourne Sammy McKe how about your uh buddy Ernie there in Buffalo. >> I almost we just I almost got through a full day without thinking about the J. Hey, that’s okay. >> My worst like sporting event frustration was Tom Watson not winning the British Open at 60. He had to make par from the fair middle of the fairway on 18. He hit it long. Steuart Sink ends up winning the British Open. >> Did he not hit it short? >> No, he hit it long. He one hopped it. He landed right by the pin. Went long. It was a heartbreaker because he had a touchy tit chip coming back. Now it’s the Jays thing. Now I can’t think of the Jays thing. >> Ernie did look good in the Buffalo Saber jersey though. >> Yeah, that’s I mean listen, he’s from Buffalo. He’s obviously a Sabres fan. He’s affiliated now. Like Ernie went from like a utility guy who was, you know, waved by the A’s, I think, at one point or the Guardians or one of those teams to like playing in the World Series and then like playing in like a MLB baseball golf tournament to like being on with >> most playoffs. You were saying, >> but I’m just I’m just saying that like his rise to this I just hope he doesn’t have a 525 OPS next year, boys. That’s what I’m hoping for. >> Yeah. >> I want to invite I want to invite Ernie to my Thursday morning skate. >> Oh, yeah. >> But not Borne. >> No. >> He’s not famous enough. >> He doesn’t play for the Blue Jays. >> I don’t play him at all. >> No. Ernie. Ernie, you got nothing better to do? Come for a skate with us Thursday mornings. >> I think that’s a doable. >> Yeah, >> I’ll get I’ll do that in the new year. >> Chat with Ernie. >> Oh, that is the most December 19th thing ever said. I’ll get that done in the new year. No problem. Uh, >> I know who to talk to about that. >> Uh, um, >> let’s go here. Uh, text, text, text text. >> I think we’re dangerously close to having one Canadian team maybe in the playoffs. What can we do to fix this from Luis and Monton, who’s also called Luis? >> Well, first off, the Oilers are in. >> Yeah, >> let’s not have any further discussion about that. They’re currently third in the Pacific, two points out of first. Uh, everything behind them is not great. So, one team’s in. After that, Ottawa is currently out. I like them. They’re making the playoffs. Anyone else? You guys really like Montreal? I don’t really like >> I think it might be one. >> The Jets good team last year. They’re not that much different from last year. Can they fully miss playoffs? >> I I just don’t know if the Havs can hang on to their spot because of the the goalending. It’s been so bad. And Fowlers’s come up. They rushed him up here. He’s been no good. We legitimate like Leafs terrifying. >> No shot. >> No shot. >> No shot. >> Can I just >> if they keep playing like this, there’s no shot though. >> 35% chance they make playoffs. >> Way push this conversation a little further past just making the playoffs this year. >> I worry about some guys in Canadian Marcus like leaving for the States, >> right? Based on politics. >> I don’t know. nothing in general just >> there seems to be >> just a >> I don’t know like and maybe it’s an American thing too because we had Matthew Kachchuk and now Quinn Hughes was Matthew wasn’t the captain right he wasn’t the captain but Quinn Hughes American captain Brady Kachchuk’s American captain Austin Matthews American captain >> uh is that I think that’s >> Listen Conor McDavid just signed a short-term deal like even that’s out there for Oiler fans not today to deal with tomorrow or hopefully even next year. But come on, like we we need to keep superstars here. We need them on long-term deals. We need them entertaining us for the next 10 years. >> We do. What do you propose we do about that? Give them lots of money. That’s all I got. I don’t know. No, just I don’t know. Just win. >> Yeah. Just win. Create a great environment for them so they don’t want to leave. >> Like I don’t know what happened to Quinn Hughes. Was it all about winning and losing? Was it more >> into the year being like, “Yeah, we need to have a positive start.” >> He wanted to get to the East Coast, guys. >> Yeah. He didn’t succeed at that, >> but he didn’t have any choice. >> Got kind of halfway there. >> Literally halfway there. >> Yeah. In the middle. >> Matthew had a choice because he was able to parlay right away a long-term deal. Quinn Hughes hasn’t been able to do that. Won’t until next season. >> It’s crazy how that worked out for Matthew Kachchuck. Um, >> Trevor from Moosejaw, Saskatchewan. >> Yeah, what up, Moose Jaw? Three of my four are parents, counting in-laws from Moose Jaw. >> I was gonna say >> I don’t have four parents. I have two and then there’s two in-law parents. >> Uh, speaking of Quinn Hughes, hot take. Quinn Hughes is not going to be a gamebreaker in big boy playoff games. He is like his brothers. They’re all under size and way too injuryprone. >> You know, I’ve heard that take before. >> Kipper, maybe from Boost Jaw. Uh yeah, it’s it’s a factor for sure. Just the pounding is much different as we know in the playoffs. He’s he’s a dynamic skater. >> Hopefully he’s able to dodge all that this time around for Minnesota, >> I think, >> because he wasn’t he wasn’t able to >> in Vancouver in that second round. Stanley Cup champion Chris Latang might be a model for him as a way to, you know, not get hit a ton and move the puck still. >> Um, this one’s from Kurtie in Halifax. Can Samuel >> sing the Moose Heads goal song to beat the fake maritimer allegations? >> Wow. >> Yeah. I don’t know if I’ve ever claimed to be a Maritimer. >> You literally have never once. >> No. Okay. So that’s kind of weird. Like I just have I done that before because I did live in Halifax for two Well, in Dartmouth actually. >> I didn’t know that. Oh, you went to school. >> Yeah, I went I lived in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia for two years. >> Hold on. You didn’t go to school. >> I went to school. >> Did you pass? >> I did. >> No chance, >> buddy. Most improved student second year. >> You know that. You know what that means? First year. >> But I I think the goal song I went to a million. I was there during the time Nathan McKinnon was a was a moose head and I went to >> Did you stalk him? No, but I went to every game because they were unbelievable. Druanne was on that team as well. It was amazing. But I think it’s like you just can’t stop the moose or something like that. I THINK THAT’S IT. I THINK THAT’S IT. >> I think it’s you just can’t stop the moose. I maybe way off. Anyways, >> I loved it. Loved it either way. >> I just wanted to cuz I didn’t think I’d did you guys even know that I was lived in Halifax. There you go. I don’t know where the hell you got that. >> I don’t know where you live now. Thought you went to like broad Didn’t you go to like radio school? >> Yeah, but in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. >> Oh, I actually I was just like I don’t know on Jane and >> No, it’s in Nova Scotia. It’s a long story how I ended up there, but I did. So, I spent two years there. >> Tell me sometime. >> Uh listening to Doug and uh talk about the number one defenseman makes me appreciate Jake Sanderson even more as an Ottawa fan. >> It should. Hugely underrated in my opinion. That draft year gave us Stuts Sanderson and the Riddler. Who’s the Riddler? All in the first round. Great drafting. Great. >> Oh yeah. Anyways, happy holidays and Joer Noel. Joer Noel. >> Ottawa will get like depending on what you think of Shabbat who’s been hurt, right? >> Chatbot. Yep. >> They may have to unload him. >> What? What is with you? Every time any has a surplus of talent, you >> I’m just saying eventually. I’m not saying today or tomorrow. >> Hold on. So they can keep the text messages. Who are you trading? He just traded Shabbat. >> Shabbat. >> Oh, okay. I thought you were talking about Sanderson. >> Why? >> You have two good players. >> Well, I don’t know if they maybe not. Maybe you want to parlay that into something else. But to Doug’s point, teams are looking like crazy for defense. >> And could another team think of him as a number one? >> What they trade for Jacob Cher and they got back Jensen in a third. But that was just a disaster. You know, to be fair, he’s >> he’s not the he wasn’t the player he is now. >> I mean, >> not in Arizona and not he’s gone to another level. >> Okay. >> Chicken is unbelievable and but he wasn’t that in Ottawa. >> Thank you. So, >> he was buried behind it with them. >> It was a timing thing and hey, you struck lightning by picking him up. There’s a lot of teams that said no when he was available in Arizona and in Ottawa. >> So, good on good on Washington for for for taking the bat off their shoulders. But sometimes two dynamic defensemen sometimes doesn’t work. >> They don’t play together. >> It’s not no just to control a blue line to to be in a scenario where sometimes it’s just I don’t I don’t know if Shabbat Alpha dog. But I think there’s idea that do we need what is Shabbat? 9 million. >> No, he’s less than I thought. >> Didn’t he sign him eight times eight? >> Okay. Eight. Jake’s nine. >> It’s a little heavy for two guys. >> Yeah. He signed >> You look at the Leafs, they got all their money up front. But >> starting in 2021 20, sorry, in 2020 2021 is 8 million until 2028. Uh, >> I’m not trading them today or tomorrow, but I think down the road >> there’s a possibility. >> All right. All right. >> Quickly before we go, this one’s from the Ottawa area. No name on it, but >> uh, hi guys. Love the show. >> Best show. Best hockey talk in the business. >> Good way to get business. >> Uh, my favorite player growing up was Mike Bossy. >> Wondering if Borie has a good Bossy story. Go Wilds. >> Well, yeah. His back really hurt and he stopped being awesome and he retired. Is that an Austin Matthews thing? Is that why we’re Is that what we’re doing here? >> Bossi is the uh second or the third leading points per game guy, I think, all time. Um, you know, I know that it was funny with Bossy cuz uh Mike was married to a French woman and I know that when they would go to these team parties that she didn’t want him to speak English with the other with the other guys because she would feel left out. So Bossi would always be at these parties and if you couldn’t speak French, you couldn’t talk to Mike. So guys would have to like, you know, find a way to bring Bossy out of the house, go get a cigarette or something to get like an English word in with Mike when they’d be at the team parties. Only spoke French at team parties. >> That is an amazing story. That is really they go quick hack a quick dart. Uh >> it doesn’t really change for anybody. We know who runs the household. >> Let me let me read let me read the the gold totals for Mike Bossy. >> Yeah. 53 69 51 68 64 60 51 58 61 38 CIA >> 38 CIA That is insane. >> And his goal total is in junior uh 70 84 7975. >> You knew where the net was. >> He could figure it out. All right, boys. That’s it. Or’s last show. >> Yeah, you guys have an hour on Monday and that’s it for you. >> Yeah, we’re doing at least hour, you and me, coming off two games back to back against uh Nashville and Dallas. just an hour. You and me, Monday, five, four to five. >> Wouldn’t it be weird if they beat Nashville, the Leafs, and or I’m sorry, uh yeah, >> lost to Nashville and beat Dallas. >> That would be very surprising. I I think we’re going to learn a lot about this hockey club over the weekend. >> Wyatt Johnson has gone to another level, too. >> Team Canada, >> he’s awfully close. >> I mean, he he’s part of the the he’s part of like the next group of guys. I think from when I published my team Canada, I I would now add Matthew Schaefer. Maybe >> I saw you sent something. Where did you send that that thing from with Buchard and Schaefer? You sent the group. >> Uh I think LeBron had it like rumblings or something. Bousard is still in the mix. >> Send him. He’s going to be our number one guy for many years. Totally. Let him get the pace. >> Our thanks to Doug Mlan on Fridays. Our thanks to all of you for your text messages this hour. and Leaf Line in our Leaf Edition hour. >> Uh JB, when do we see you next? >> Well, I’m going to see you on the desk for the Leafs game Sunday, pal. And then I’m back uh whenever we’re back after Christmas. >> All right, everybody. Thanks for all the support this week. We’ve needed it, especially our boy Sammy. >> Continue to need it. >> Have a great weekend, a safe a safe weekend, and Sammy and I will see you back here on Monday. >> Thanks, everyone.
Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back to the Toronto Maple Leafs’ loss to the Washington Capitals, sharing their thoughts on head coach Craig Berube’s post-game comments and the team’s continued power play struggles. Later, former NHL president, GM and head coach Doug MacLean joins the show to discuss why the Leafs need to change their coaching staff around Berube, Tristan Jarry’s injury, and how the new ownership in Pittsburgh will affect the Penguins.
———————————————-
0:00 – Leafs vs. Capitals Recap
37:47 – Leafs Line
54:46 – Doug MacLean
———————————————-
📺 http://sportsnetplus.ca – Stream live on Sportsnet+
💻 http://www.sportsnet.ca – More news & highlights on Sportsnet.ca
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVhibwHk4WKw4leUt6JfRLg
https://www.facebook.com/sportsnet
Tweets by Sportsnet
https://www.instagram.com/sportsnet/
@sportsnet
———————————————-
What Comes Next for the Maple Leafs? | Real Kyper & Bourne – December 19, 2025
#NHL #hockey #podcast
33 comments
Merry Christmas boys…love listening to the pod
Marc Savard had one of the worst PP in Calgary and is doing it again here in Toronto. I don't trust Treliving vision for the Leafs . I fear keeping him around too long might cripple the Leafs for years to come. Don't be afraid to hire a 1st time GM…the last 5 cup winners had 1st time GMS.
The East isn't bad imo. The bottom 7 teams in the league are from the West, so all the top dogs (COL, DAL, MIN) are beating up on them and stacking the points
Bring Gallant in get rid of the rest Period. Mike Kitchen great assistant
I don't think Tree has the green light to do anything this year. If the new head honcho has any smarts, he's losing Tree and others in management at years end with a rebuild or retool or whatever you want to call it, as the new plan/new direction.
he mantioned assistant coaches…I always thought bringing in Lalonde was a bad move
Mathews for Hughes…I suggested it 2 months ago…nobody listened.
Mathews is obviously broken. If he isn't he's lazy like Nylander. Both need to go, if you want to build a winning culture in Toronto. Leaders need to lead by example.
The amount of hate for montreal is hilarious and sammy saying fowler was a disaster bringing him up is so wrong. He had a great game against the pens, and montréal was outshot by a lot. The game against rangers was montreals worst defensive game all year….but if that makes him feel better im happy for him🙄 I get it i dont like the leafs vice versa 😉
So guys, in the end it was not Sheldon Keefe, or any other coaches before him, why Leafs have failed to take the nxt step. Or even Berube now.
It was the primadonna Star players who have not delivered , when its highly needed.
You guys , Bourne especially, have overrated the talent of this team.
Atm the talent does not exist there. At the best it was just occasional . But never in game 7.
There are always scapegoats to blame . But these blamed here are real.
Matthevs has hard times ahead. The pressure for him are bigger than ever.
These three cretins have zero credibility. They have the oldest team in the NHL. Zero picks of meaning in years to come. Soft, slow and gutless. Who put this team together? Tell us three dumb men or don't you have the guts to call our Brad. The same crap will happen. Brad will fire the coach, fand and "experts" will say this has to be done. The window is closed. You have to accept this is not a good team and it belongs at the feet of the GM. Sad that they don't have the intelligence of guts to call it out. Don't want to upset the hand that feeds them.
Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas everyone!
…The Leafs # 1 problem is they have a bad GM. Treeliving pretty much loses on every trade he makes. The only player I like that he acquired is Tanev. The rest are garbage. Just to name a few Domi, Laughton, Maccelli, Joshua, Lorentz , Roy and Carlo have all been busts. They are not even worth paying the minimum wage to play in the NHL. These are all bad players. And then you have a player like Nylander who is not even trying most nights. He gets $11.5 million annually for not doing any work most nights. Tavares works every night. Matthews does not have a line mate to feed him the puck. The Leafs miss Marner. Right now they have no set up man for Matthews. He starves most nights. If I was Keith Pelley I would keep Treeliving on a short leash. He should not be allowed to make a trade. The Leafs need to find a new GM. Someone who actually knows what they are doing. The one they have now is a real dumb dumb. That is their biggest problem. I would fire him and get someone working as an Assistant with another NHL club. Someone young and bright. And make that person the New GM. Because right now they are only going to get worse. I can't watch them anymore. They are a bad hockey team. Real Bad. I watch something else on TV and Not The Leafs. Or I turn off the TV. They are really bad…….
The fans who pay for tickets are partially to blame for the team failures. The fans who watch full games in TV are also partially to blame.
i know everyone in broadcasting is friends with deboer for some reason but i don't need to see that on the leafs.
Trade Matthews. He is not a winner.
PLAYOFFS 😂😂😂😂
Merry Christmas to everyone. 🎅🎄
Reilly is a wingman.
It’s all Lipstick on a Pig at this moment Boys.
Can we get some sunscreen for Doug?
Is there a shortage in Florida?
Mitch Marner assisted 326 times on Austin’s 401 with the leafs. The Leafs ran the wrong guy out of town. Now the Leafs are stuck with a no show captain that cant drive a line. Has zero heart. Zero will to win. Cares only about himself and doesn't hate to lose. All that for 13 million a year. What a joke. This doesn't mean Marner is the answer. However Marner did much more than just assist on goals. The Leafs never replaced the hole Marner made when he left.
What comes next? Nothing, because current management doesn`t have guts nor skills to make necessary changes! What should come next? New GM, new captain and trading overpaid passengers like Matthews, Nylander and Rielly!
Berube knows Matthews and Nylander are soft fairies and he has had enough. Softest two players in the NHL.
Anthony Joshua is an absolute real fighter. He won silver in the Olympics and was a two time former world heavy weight champion as a pro.
Who really cares. Not a damned thing I can do about it.
It all Marners fault
the real test will be how Matthews Nylander and who else from Toronto play at the Olympics
Kyper is right, put it all on the table. They ain’t ever winning a cup with Matthews. Hes soft as a twinkie filling. Never gonna happen with him so why keep delaying this.
The talent is there. The heart and hating to lose is NOT there. That is the problem.
Love your show guys all the best for the new year ! ☃️👍👍🇨🇦
Lazy 34 and 88 poor work ethic is starting to influence young players 23, 89 and 53.
Kyper makes me laugh when he brings up a critical issue with this team and says things like "Will this really make the team better, will it?" or "Do you like those chances JB?" Just the way he talks and brings these questions to light is entertaining lol