Is the Giants loss vs Commanders Officially the end of Joe Schoen | 930

Is the Giants loss vs Commanders Officially the end of Joe Schoen | 930

Hello and welcome back to Talking Giants. Commanders 29, Giants 21. The New York Football Giants have lost eight games in a row to a football team that was coming off of losing eight games in a row. There was a ton of miscues today. How about two missed field goals? How about an interception? How about a turnover on downs from the oneyd line, having first and goal at the one yard line. How about a couple drop passes by Darius Sllayton. How about a punt return touchdown allowed? Uh, and Sean doing all this against the worst pass defense, one of the worst defenses in the NFL. And I’ll tell you what, there’s two good things to come out of this game. Number one being Abdul Carter. Had a great great game. Took it over and damn, he was close to helping us win the game or even have a chance to tie it at the end of regulation. That’s number one. Number two, the one thing that I guess in their in their delusioned heads, diluted heads, the one thing that they could hang their hats on was that the Giants competed but lost to good football teams. Well, for the first time in quite a while, uh, they played a very, very bad football team and they got their ass kicked. I don’t care what the final score says, 29-21. The Giants got their ass kicked in this game. They were embarrassed in this game. Uh, and this this is Joe Shane’s fired. Joe Shane is fired. There is there was no there should have been no coming back from what has happened already this season. There is no coming back from this. Joe Shane is fired. And if you and if that’s good news to you as a Giants fan, that’s the good news that’s coming out of this. There is no rebounding from this. Sean, how are you? >> Uh, I’m doing good. Do you have some insider info there? cuz I I definitely don’t think this necessarily means Joe Shane is fired even though it should be. >> I just can’t I can’t r I can’t see how anybody can rationalize anything different. Now they can and they will if you know I I just don’t >> I cannot grasp if you’re seeing me on YouTube. I’m having like a mental conion right now. I after this >> there is no other turn. What are you going to fire? All right, let’s fire the special teams coordinator because you missed two field goals and you allowed a punt return touchdown and that was the difference in this game. The one the one score. Okay, look there there is no other way to turn Sean. This is it. >> The Bucks it has to stop here. >> Well, it’s a terrible Joe Shane game. And if you want to pinpoint why the Giants sucked in this game, look no further than Joe Shane. Perfect examples. Again, the kicker problem which has been a problem for year after year after year in the Joe Shane reign. Young Wu, you can’t rely on him in cold weather, wind, all that to make a kick. Kind of a problem when you’re the New York Football Giants. That’s an issue. Um Mike Kfka, you handpicked this guy after firing Brian Dable to try to give him some runway. He’s a terrible head coach. I mean, again, makes Dable look like Lombardi in these games. And the whole Jackson Dart stuff, the first half, Justin, it it felt like until that drive that was drive, they made a a a hardlined approach to not having Jackson Dart run the football. Suddenly when he was able to run the football, the offense got cooking. That feels like that came from a top of Joe Shane. >> Spark. This is just >> there’s no justifying the Joe Shane stuff. And in the end, like what did I just watch? What did you, the listeners and viewers just watched? Justin, what did we just watch? You know what it felt like? The football version of a Dr. Melie scene in the Sopranos. That’s what this giant game felt like. I walked away kind of going, I think I wanted us to lose. I don’t know if I liked what I just watched, but then again, I laughed a couple times. Oh, and there were a couple good moments with Abdul Carter. That was of all the losses the Giants have had the ideal Dr. Melie Tony Soprano scene where you have no idea if you liked it or not. I have no idea if I liked what I just watched or not. >> Yeah, I’m going to >> because you got the loss, right? I mean, in the end, we want to lose the game, but we all kind of got roped in and thought even at the end when we were doing laterals, whatever. Oh, did we win the game? Then it’s fun. The whole game was just such a bizarre feeling from a fan standpoint. >> Yeah, I’m going to remember this game like I I am so I am so certain now. And hey, if I’m wrong, man, I’m wrong. But I I I need to I need to root for something. There’s three games left. I I I want to root for something uh at at any at any point with my favorite football team, right? I want to feel something. And right now, what I want to feel is I want to root for the New York Giants to head in the right direction. Not not even to fire somebody like cuz I I feel slimy saying I’m rooting for somebody to get fired. And I and I don’t want to I I don’t want to be that dude. So, I guess I’m going to spin that point. >> I’m going to spin. spin that >> and I want to root for my own favorite football team to try and turn this thing around and maybe this football game will be the final tipping point if they already haven’t reached that point. I mean Ian Oconor the athletic for weeks has been putting out and he’s always been very plugged into the organization. He’s been putting out for weeks like he Joe Shane may not be as safe as people think. Joe Shane may not be as safe as people think. To look this bad, to look this pathetic against the Washington Commanders, who again have lost eight games in a row themselves, who are also depleted with injuries. I would even say maybe even a little bit worse than the Giants because at least the Giants have been depleted with injuries with Cam Scaboo and Malik Neighbors. Like they’ve been depleted for the majority of the year with those guys. Their offensive line is relatively healthy. Uh outside of Kavon Tibido, their defensive line is relatively healthy in playing. They fully got their secondary back. We have moved on from Deontay Banks, which is seemingly made the a horrible defense somewhat better. So, they’re more depleted and they they’re also missing their own starting quarterback, too. All on top. >> Well, that that’s what I was going to say. You don’t even have to break down the roster. They don’t have their young star starting quarterback. The Giants had theirs. That’s you you know, you should be able to overcome beyond that. Absolutely. It’s atrocious losing a game like that to Marcus Mariota and being down and having to fight tooth and nail. But Justin, as is typical Giant football with as bad as they played, >> million opportunities, whether it’s that goal line sequence, which we’ll get to, or Jameus Winston’s to come into the game, whether it’s Darius Sllayton dropping a touchdown pass. Uh the Giants had their and coup missing two kicks. The Giants had their chances to win this game and they probably should not have lost this game, but they are the New York Giants in 2025. I just and it all comes back to again not good enough players making plays when it matters and that’s on the general manager putting it together. >> Yeah. I mean again like the the miscus that I mentioned at the top of the show, the two missed field goals. I mean how how many times you can’t talk anymore about >> and Yeah. I don’t even want to talk about but I just I’m just going through what’s player based, what’s coaching based, and what’s Joe Shane based. The two missed field goals missed field goals. It’s it’s a Joe Shane thing. It’s not even about Young Way Coup or anything like that. It’s the fact that the Graham Gnau issue wasn’t addressed even going back to 2023 when he first suffered his first injury against the Jets in 2023 that game. Uh so two missed field goals. That’s a huge miscue of today. And it’s a it’s a first half miscue where you have an opportunity to get any kind of momentum under your belt. >> Just put just put a a quick pause. I’ll let you finish the other point. I just want to like we’re we’re brushing it over and I know we’re so tired of talking about the kicker issue. Just understand this. The Giants were are on a team here that blew how many fourth quarter leads and then got a lot out of Jackson Dart early in the year. You know, there’s an alternate universe, Justin, where the Giants are alive and in the hunt if they hold on to all of those leads that they had throughout the year today. Okay? And in that alternate universe, this kicker problem would have come back to haunt the Giants. And that’s the first thing we’d be yelling and screaming about is how could you leave such a stupid silly thing continue to be a problem for this team. So yeah, it doesn’t matter because the teams won two games, but it it still would be the same issue had the team won all of these games they blew in the fourth quarter. So it’s that’s a major Joe Shane red flag that again he just like the simple thing he couldn’t figure out. And the reason I want to harp on that is because you’re not calling he’s firing or you don’t want to see anybody get f whatever. Like Joe Shane needs to be fired on that merit alone. he couldn’t take care of the simplest task for this football team, which was just making sure you had a kicker situation figured out. >> Uh the interception that Jackson Dart threw today, he he almost threw another one um on a on a fourth and goal, but I think that was just a really good play by the safety. And also, it’s fourth and goal. You got to force the issue. You got to score a touchdown. But the interception that he did throw, uh lo and behold, Jaylen Hyatt was somehow on the receiving end of it. >> Uh I did find it to be very funny. did find it to be very funny that Jaylen Hyatt acted like he was dead on the field for like a hot second and then he gets up and somehow makes a tackle after a 50-yard return. >> Um the best effort play in his career. >> I didn’t even realize that in real time that he was the one that got up and made the tackle. I was so just bewildered the whole play. I totally missed in real time. Again, we’re doing this right after the game. >> That’s crazy. And honestly, it was a maybe it is on high and the old 22 will prove that. That was Jackson. >> To me, it felt like Jackson Darts, he sailed it. He had a couple of those today. I think it was a great dart day overall. Although, he started to make up for it in the second half with some of these, but it wasn’t an overly impressive day throwing the football. Um, you know, I could count three or four misses, including that pick that just felt wildly unlike Dart had been all season long. Justin. >> Yeah. But again, like going back to like the Joe Shane thing, the interception, Jaylen Height somehow finds his way on the field. It seems like there were people that were talking about that he kind of rounded that route and didn’t fully finish that route or give even a ton of effort on it to begin with. I I I think all 22 is going to better speak speak to that story. I don’t think they showed a replay where they where they were tracking Jaylen Hyatt or his sky cam or anything like that. Uh I just found it to be funny that the one interception that Jackson Dart does have on the day um it is it is Jaylen Hyatt being targeted. Uh great job Joe Shane. Uh the turnover on downs when you have first and goal at the one-yd line. Uh this is where I guess you can go away from Joe Shane. Uh first goal at the one yard line. Jackson Dart on a designed run >> uh on a first or second down or did they have the tack? There was like a major there’s like a major loss in there too. >> Yeah. Second down was a run to either Tracy or Singleary. There was a tackle for loss. >> Yeah. >> Jamus had a weird play on third and then Dark came back in for the fourth down. >> Yeah. So what what’s your what’s your take on that that sequence of events? >> I I think that Fortunately, we’ve hit the point now where everything that has been hammered home about Jackson Dart and the runs and protecting himself is seeping into officiating the game like all right I you know I want the players protected and I understand all that but I mean and Vilma gave a sense on the game Jackson Dart I’m not going to take away the design runs that’s where you want to use him I guess best right in the goal line leave you know less room for that you know he gets hit it’s a little awkward he gets up he’s clearly fine he’s looking up at the scoreboard you know that felt like if that was not Jackson Dart And that was another quarterback. I’m not sure that the refs are pulling him off the field and sending him to the tent. And it killed the second and third down. Jameus, I’m not even blaming Jameus. He comes in ice cold in the goal line situation there. And they’re still running read options that play for the loss. You know, he Jamus is kind of doing like a fake run in that spot, too. Um I think the perception of the Jackson Dart taking hit was directly reflective in that situation. And I’d like to think with Jackson Dart in those down, second, third down, they score, but them’s the rules. And um this is kind of a stench thing, Justin, that I think he’s going to need to be cleaned up next year. Jackson Dart needs to take ownership of that. The team needs to take ownership of it, but also the NFL needs to back off and breathe and realize the guy’s a football player and running. And I I don’t know why. Maybe it’s because he’s the Giants quarterback. Maybe it’s because of the, you know, the blue tent stuff and Brian Dable rushing into the tent on national TV. whatever it is, but the Jackson Dart narrative that has existed now about running the football and taking hits uh has reached the comical proportions where we forget. >> Yeah, man. Um I don’t he’s a football player. I mean, I think he’s mentioned I really don’t have like this is one of those things where I don’t have a ton of ton of takes, man. it if the dude just has a propensity to either get hurt but he wasn’t hurt or if like you said if they’re going to start targeting him I’m not going to fault him for a negative run I’m not even going to fault the coaching staff for a for a negative one yard run on a first and goal but then I think just taking him out of the game >> him leaving the game ultimately just results in it it just stops everything and it it disrupts your momentum so I I don’t know if you need to get to a point where unless you know that you have a super obvious read. I do think Vilma even though he was really annoying and we could talk about this too. He was really annoying throughout the broadcast. I do think Vilma had a good point in talking about I don’t love the design runs that is an automatic run. Maybe even give him an RPO that gives him the option to read it after the snap to give a pre- snap look and then also a very quick post snap look to decide am I going to keep this? Am I going to run this or is this a play where I’m going to take it and throw? Um like I I don’t know what the answer is, man. Because he comes out of the game and you’re down by two scores and you’re still in the middle of the fourth quarter there. You make it a one-sore game and it it may not be a different game, but it’s a different game at least in that moment. So, um I I >> Yeah. So, but so Justin, what are you what what are you what are you suggesting? We shouldn’t be running Jackson D on first downs and designed runs in the goal line. Oh, no. Again, I don’t it’s it’s a tough conversation, but I I guess I would say instead of just a flatout designed run right now, >> new coaching staff, new system next year, different conversation we’re going to be having. But at least right now, I would like to give him the option of of an RPO where it you can take it out of a running back’s belly. You can throw the ball or if Jackson Dort sees that there’s an alley that there’s an opportunity to run the ball and take it himself. I don’t know if I want to put him in harm’s way of here’s a here’s a stacked box of eight. >> Yeah. >> And now we’re just going to run the ball and we’re going to take a hit. I don’t know if I want to do that. I I understand what you’re saying and obviously in a lost year like this and with the perception going on, but this is just kind of like I think what’s what’s becoming the most frustrating part about this issue because what are the Giants supposed to do here? Are they supposed to get the first overall pick and take Fernando Mendoza because they cannot function as an offense and now every time Jackson gets tackled he has to go to the blue tent. Like what is the solution here? Because you need him to run. you need him to be able to use his legs and not worry that the refs now are going to overficiate spotting him on the field if they’re hits. I like it’s a really legitimate issue. Does that magically go away in September next year? >> Um and you can’t just put it on Jackson Darkley. He’s got to, you know, make sure he slides every single time. Not every quarterback slides every single time. >> You’re not sliding at the one at the one yard line, you know. >> Exactly. Exactly. But that’s a, you know, a quarterback with with wheels needs to be a threat inside the goal line. And basically officiating wise, it’s being taken away from the Giants now because any any hit where it looks semi funny is gonna be sent to the tent. It’s kind of absurd. It really is. It’s it’s costing the Giants now. >> Yeah. I also >> And that starts with the media stuff, the officiating stuff. Like I think it’s so overblown. >> Yeah. I I also don’t like I’m seeing here you have Isaiah Hajins on this team, you have Theo Johnson, you have Daniel Bellinger. I mean, you even have Darius Slayton for all of his drops, you know, and whatever. I I’m seeing a a third a third and goal and a fourth and goal. I’m seeing two targets to Wondelle Robinson um inside the five yard line. I don’t love that. >> Sorry. I I I don’t I don’t love that either. So >> Daniel Bellinger and Theo Johnson got to be your bread and butter on those downs. Period. Stop. >> Or I mean if Hajins I mean Hajins >> 2022 2023 that’s what Hajins did. If you notice though, Justin, I you know, I wanted to see how they came out of the buy. And that was another interesting thing here with Hajins because you saw it. He never got cooking in New England. They bring Hajins in. He worked and clicked right away with Jamus, but he is just not clicking with Jackson Dart through two games here with Jackson Dart. There was just nothing there between those two. It is It is Dart to Theo. It is Dart Dart to Wandell. It’s Dart attempting to get it to Sllayton when only he can drop the ball at every other turn. But the Hodgkins thing, man, it’s so wild. There’s something there where he clicked with Winston and he is just not clicking with Dart. I’m almost counting out Hajins for these last three weeks making plays. >> Yeah, it’s sad. It’s It’s sad because I I think I think he can I think he can contribute. Uh so the next thing on the list of Miscus uh that I do want to talk about actually let me see how how long are we into this? Uh so you know what? We can talk about something. I’m we’re gonna we’re going to talk about Darius Slayton. We’re going to talk about his two drop passes. >> Um one of them being a touchdown, right? One of them right in his hands. >> Yeah. Red basket. By the way, that’s set up. I’m pretty sure that’s set up that goal line sequence we were talking about. So, if he catches that, we never get the goal line sequence. 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Shopify is a perfect partner for any business roster. So, make sure that they’re on yours today. So, um, as we’re talking about Joe Shane, uh, over this over the over this entire situation, uh, Darius Sllayton signed a three-year contract with the Giants worth 36 million with 22 million guaranteed, including a $9 million signing bonus. Next year, Darius Sllayton has a cap hit of $16 million. That is 5.3% of the cap. They cannot cut him because you only save $250,000 if you cut him. But you have a dead cap hit of $15.7 million. So Darius Slayton is on the roster for next year at that $16 million cap hit. Sean, >> um, >> well, look, um, I know I know that you’re probably more Sllayton, team Sllayton than I am. All I will say is this. Cap hits cannot allow you to dictate who’s on the football field a or what to upgrade on the roster. Darius Sllayton under no way, shape, or form could be the wide receiver too next to Malik Neighbors next year on this team. Period. Stop. The drops today, Jonathan Vilma was stunned to see Darius Sllayton drop a football with all the Johnny names he’s called. I I can’t believe that. Uh and again, this has nothing to do with Darius Sllayton, the the good guy that he is, you know, the Walter Payton man of the year stuff. um what he battled on this Giant team from kind of being like out to back in. The truth on Darius Sllayton is he he is going to statistically represent um a leaderboard for the Giants like all time wide receiver yardage catches all this stuff. >> Yeah. >> But he is now one of the poster boys for this losing era of Giants football. And it’s not his fault but he’s just on a good team. he’s playing on the Bills or the Patriots where he where they’re running these like four wide receiver concepts and he’s like their third or fourth option. He cannot be a wide receiver too in the NFL and expect to be a really really good humming offense because the moment wide receiver one goes down as you seen you have to lean on Sllayton. I’m just so t it’s year after year where it’s just here’s the ball, here’s Sllayton. Bread basket drops constantly. It’s nauseating. It’s inexcusable. And his cap pick cannot allow you to have him at, you know, occupy a big time roster spot next year. >> Yeah, I think that’ll be for the next regime to decide, right? Um I even want to look at his drop I want to look at his drop rate. >> His drop rate, dude. What what it is with all these guys. It’s the same thing with Theo Johnson. It’s the same thing with Slayton. It’s not the fact that they drop the ball a ton. >> It’s when they do. It’s when they do. >> It’s when they do. And like Sllayton this year, if I tell you he has a 5.1% drop rate, it’s going to go up after today. If I tell you and and also I’m very interested to see I’m looking at Pro Football Reference PFly. >> It’s drop rate’s a weird stat. They It’s a weird stat because what they don’t view as a drop, I view as a drop at times. I It’s just It’s It’s It is not It’s not as simple as an RBI in baseball where, you know, there’s no disputing it. Like a drop rate is a weird stat, man. >> Yeah. A lot of these stats like pressures and hits and stuff like that, they they can be they definitely can be a little subjective, but dude, Sllayton still like I I I still want to look at since 2022 where he had a 9.9 10% drop rate. like he has not had a drop rate that’s been higher than 5 and a half 5.6%. Um it’s it’s just when he drops the ball it just feels like it is the it’s the worst thing he could possibly could do it’s so bad it’s such bad timing. Like I cannot believe like people you’re going to look at me and you’re going to roll your eyes after I say this. I cannot believe how much of a disastrous year this is for Darius Slayton because Sean I still think it’s in him. I still think if he goes to the Buffalo Bills, if he goes to the Los Angeles Chargers, like I think that he can have a role where he’s like an okay decent two or three on an NFL roster. >> But you’re talking about teams that have these unbelievable concepts where, you know, like, okay, that’s the typical wide receiver catching here, here, here. In a traditional team that has like a an alpha number one wide receiver, he’s not a good number two. He needs to be like in a in a in a blending pot mix of three, four wide receivers just huming at once to be successful. >> But then how do you explain 2022 and 2023 because that’s when he was kind of >> at his best, especially 2023 with Tyrod, man. >> Okay, it’s in him. The the shit’s in him is my point. The shit’s in. >> Of course it’s in him. >> He’s been a home run threat. Of course it’s in him, but the consistency is not in him. It’s just not. He had drops early in 2023. in 2022 if not for Xavier McKini making >> incred% drop rate in 2022. Yes, >> he drops the biggest pass of the game in the wild card playoff game. They won if they lose that game. We’re all talking that’s what how Sllayton’s remembered the rest of his career is for that drop if the Giants don’t hang on and win that game period. But it just look right a new regime comes in they’ll figure it out. I’m not saying he has to be off the roster but the moment neighbors came down came got hurt and we saw Sllayton again elevated to this wide receiver. just see why he’s not. And I’m so tired of having again, we’re talking about Kicker, we’re talking about Sladen. It’s the same conversation over and over again about the same guys. At some point, get rid of the disease of losing. >> Yeah. >> I just can’t. >> You’re stealing that from >> I can’t believe how bad and disastrous this got for him. It somehow feels worse than what he was going through in in 2021, 2022. like it it somehow feels worse. >> I mean, it is worse. You know why it’s worse? Because now we want him to establish a connection with the rookie quarterback and it’s not happening. >> Uh then the punt return, touchdown allowed. Uh out of so we finally went through the five major miscuses that have kind of defined this game. The punt return, uh touchdown allowed. Uh so I guess uh Michael Gorriel is going to be fired tomorrow. I guess that’s the that’s the new that’s how we go. That’s how we go around here. What has happened? What has happened to the coverage units? They were fine to start the year. This is back-to-back games giving up returns. They they had lost. Absolutely lost. I can’t figure out what has happened here, by the way. >> And I’m not even >> Yeah. Who? Bill. >> Have you Have you seen Have you seen anybody give line drives like that since Matt Dodge in 2010? >> No. >> Just complete line drives. It’s almost like he was throwing it on a rope. >> Well, yeah. This is why he was not currently on a roster and sitting on the couch. There’s no hang time whatsoever to speak of with Johnston. >> Oh god. Special teams. >> All right. You know how much I love talking about punt returns and and and special teams. So, we’re we’re done with that. Uh so, I guess the two final there’s there’s three final things I want to talk about on offense. >> Uh one, >> so we talked you talked about it a little overall. Like I I’m with you. >> Uh this wasn’t Dart’s best game. I mean, I think especially at the end of the game where you have an opportunity to tie it, uh I think he’s got to lead Juan Dale to the sideline more uh on that fourth down instead of leading him up field. And I also think for Darius Sllayton, Darius Slayton has to stop um instead of he’s running that out route instead of Darius Slayton going continuing to go to the sideline carrying his momentum and then the ball’s out in front of him. >> Darius Slayton has to stop. It allows Antonio Hamilton. Antonio Hamilton, out of all people, by the way, do you remember Antonio Hamilton? >> Still in the league. How is he still in the league? >> He’s been in the league since 2016. Has jumped around a ton. If you remember 2019 against the Cowboys, oh my god, that was one of the worst singular worst games. I found the video, by the way, that I I was I that’s when I was doing bleeding blue at St. Joseph’s University in my college apartment my senior year with my crappy Alienware computer using Snagot clipping up Giants games where the frame rate was 20 frames per second and it was so choppy. I made a compilation of Antonio Hamilton having one of the worst games that you’ve ever seen a quarterback have and I found that video and he had like a great game. He had an awesome game today. Um, so out of all people, man, so yeah, I Dart certainly didn’t have his best game, but also I I think he fought and I think he didn’t give up. Um, there were certainly good throws in there, too. So, uh, what did you think of his day? >> Well, here’s Well, here’s what I’ll say about Dart. Um, I I don’t want to just kind of blindly did do what I always did with Daniel Jones, which is when I thought he played well, treat it like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I didn’t think it was a great Dart game overall. I brought up a lot of the deficiencies I thought that happened in the first half. Uh I would have liked to see the cat even if they don’t get the two-point conversion would have just felt like a big dart moment to lead them after that Carter like you talked about leading Well uh and that just never happened. So it wasn’t meant to be for him. But to your point, >> the Giants in a game where most of these guys probably you would think mentally should have quit, may have quit. Uh you’re you’re down in the fourth quarter like that. Dark kept fighting throughout the second half. Uh, and some of those little touch passes that I think are going to come back to haunt him at one point. Like some one of these passes gonna end up getting picked off for pick six when he kind of lofts it over a defender’s head uh and hits Theo here. Um, I just the fight in the great with Jackson Dart. That is something to take out of this. If today is like the worst kind of game you’re going to get out of Jackson Dart in his career, let’s just like play the game. This is a this is what represents a bad Jackson Dart day. Okay. Doesn’t get the legs going early, erratic pick early. team’s trailing, knowing that he is never going to keep you out of the game at the end and keep fighting. I, you know, I’ll take that. I thought that was a good sign. And I think we tend to forget to a rookie quarterback, this is why you wanted Jackson Dart to play postconussion. Another moment like that interception early or what he didn’t do on that last drive when he has the ball in his hands to try to go down and tie the game. These are the things in a lost rookie year that you want your quarterback to lean on, learn on, and have the right mentality on to make him a better quarterback going forward. So, not a great day. Don’t love him, but did didn’t love the effort he had. Effort’s the wrong word. Didn’t love the performance he had, but love the fight and ironically the effort to come back. And I I just I do think today is another one of those we don’t see it because we’re so disgusted with the season, but kind of like building block little things that happened in this loss. I I think are stuff that Dart’s going to lean on heading into next year. >> Yeah. Again, I do want to reiterate, you know, now especially like you were talking like, hey, don’t just have rosecolored glasses because this guy’s a rookie and we’re we’re liking what he’s doing. the those two throws sequence of the game. No, no matter what happened leading up to that game, the game tying drive, right? As a quarterback, you got an opportunity to tie the game and continue on, you know, make make the game go on, right? >> And he didn’t. Like those those were two easy kind of bad misses. Uh there were some other bad misses that I that I thought that maybe he had. Uh one of the tight ends was targeted early in the game. Ball kind of sailed out of bounds. might have been Theo maybe expecting Theo to go up the field more or expecting the Theo go towards the sideline and then Theo went up the field. Uh kind of just thinking of this like just off of reaction stuff, right? Uh what did you think? So I thought initially I thought initially the second slant drop that was the touchdown, right? I thought initially because what I was what I was doing I was clipping up John Michael Schmidz getting flagged for like unnecessary roughness which I don’t think was right like JMS >> I still I still don’t understand what was the penalty. I still don’t understand what JMS did there that was wrong. It was a whole scrum of people. I never saw anything that warranted a flag. >> He kind of was tripping like you know you know he was you know you lean on dudes in the run game. That’s what you do, right? He was kind of leaning on somebody. So it was kind of momentum carried him forward. All right. and he finished the play. He didn’t bring anybody to the ground. So, I was kind of clipping that up. And then as I’m finishing that up, I always try like especially you you always play it’s a game of chicken when you’re clipping up a game, you’re doing social media stuff and the and your favorite team is inside the red zone, right? Cuz something just happened that you feel like is significant, but then you leave but then you leave the tab and you stop screen recording the action. So, I missed the broadcast angle, the first half of the broadcast angle of the Darius Slayton touchdown drop. Sean, it seemed like the ball stayed up in the air forever, even though Sllayton got two hands on it. I thought that maybe maybe there was a chance that Dart could have let him a little bit further out in front. But then also, when looking at the the other angle of the replay where it’s just looking on Sllayton, I think that’s nitpicking. Would you agree with that? though. That’s pretty nitpicking, >> dude. It’s it’s it’s nitpicking. You got like I know I know I’m hard on Sllayton for a quarterback to sit back, deliver that throw in the end zone where you don’t want to lead it too too far because you don’t want to lead the guy out of the end zone either. You know what I mean? Like you have to have that right. It was a drop in the bucket. >> A wide receiver who gets both hands where the ball’s literally dropped in your hands. >> You got to catch it. >> But it it wasn’t just like a fingertips two hands. You know, they say you get a hand on the ball, you got to catch it. No, no, no. This was in his arms, Justin, and he’s putting it against his chest and still drops the ball. That’s a major nitpick for me to suggest that. Well, a little bit further from from Jackson Dart, you know, a little bit further and you might have Darius Sllayton. It’s clanking off his hands like it was actually put in the bread basket and dropped it. It’s a major. You got to catch the football. I can’t put that. A lot of things I can put on Jackson Dart today. I cannot put that throw on him. It’s actually that throw. I thought the Wandell touchdown throw under the circumstances rolling out. This is where, you know, I have the confidence in Dart. Like, he made some beauties today despite the erraticness of some of the other stuff. And just think, I mean, again, that touchdown pass happens. I >> I’m pretty sure that was on the same sequence that ultimately led Dart out of the game around the goal line. >> Yes, 100%. >> How much >> So, how much different is the game at that point if that ball is actually just caught and Dart never leaves to go to the sidelines and they’re maybe at the end they’re trailing by two and they could attempt and have Coup miss a field goal to end it instead of Jackson Dart not having to get a touchdown? you could have had any of that happen. But Slate just Justin, it’s it’s time and time again. You got to make plays for the quarterback. If we’re going to pin, you know, mistakes by the quarterback, >> you just you cannot have a bunch of guys constantly just not not setting the quarterback up for success. >> Um and and Darius Sllayton kills this quarterback too many times. He just does. He’s a quarterback killer. I thought the first play of the game was really sick where it’s under center play action and you’re working back to the backside to Darius Sllayton running over the middle of the field. I thought that maybe we were going to see more stuff like that. Um >> so let’s talk about the offense for a second in the first half. What was that? The second half offense looked like the offense we saw under Brian Dable for most of the year. You started the game with that in the first half and then it was like they went into this just slog of a shell. They were not running dart at all. Nothing seemed creative whatsoever. It was the same kind of runs and formations to Tyrone Tracy. That was his boring and abl game plan after that first play. I The first half was great until you had Dart take off on his own and run for 30 yards. That entire first half was just the like Kfka’s offensive game plan felt abysmal in the first half. >> It felt very and they were doing this quite often. It it was very first down pass in like incompletion. I actually they really were trying to stretch the field a little bit. I think Dart’s average depth of target was 11 almost 12 yards today, which is a lot. Like that’s that’s like uh it’s like the 70th 80th percentile of average depth of target. So they were trying to throw the ball down the field. So it felt a lot of incomplete on first down, run on second down that dude, even even if it goes for like four yards, it like a third and six, third and seven is still a third and long. Uh, and then you’re out of third and six, third and seven, and you know what do you that that’s not an optimal ideal situation for any offense and a quarterback to be in. Even though Dart has been pretty damn good um on third downs so far this year. The number one quarterback in EPA per play leading in leading into this game on third down. By the way, the Giants were two for 12 on third down. The Commanders were three for 11, but the Giants were two for 12 on third down. Number one, that’s way too many third downs to to face. And then also, you know, 16.7% third down uh pickup rate also not very good. So, >> Justin, knowing you and having listened to you before I ever got to do the show with you for as long as I have, how much does it pain you to read such a positive EPA per play stat about a Giants quarterback and know that the team has two wins? >> Yeah, it kills me, man. Uh they are they’re one of the best teams in the first half. Uh they were showing that they have six touchdowns on their first drive so far this year. They’ve had six like through 2021 to 2024. I think that’s the stat that they showed very very early on in the game. Um I think I took a picture of that on my computer. So it it kills me that you know this is a like this offense is also clearly better than what they were in in 2022. It’s just that this defense I I cannot believe again and I’ve said this. I cannot believe how awful awful this defense is knowing the investments that you have, the amount of money that you’re spending on this defense. They are a a historically bad unit. I don’t want to get to them yet, but um >> yeah, >> it it it kills me that to watch this offense, to be excited about this offense, to be excited about Jackson Dart, to know that it could be so much better even with Malik Neighbors and Cam Scaboo and like, you know, I still am encouraged by that, the fact that they can score points even without him. >> But this defense is just so historically bad, man. So that’s why like when when we’re texting when we’re texting at the end of the game when we’re texting at the end of the game and you’re like, “All right, this game’s going to overtime and and >> I really felt Dort was going to I felt Dort was going to do this.” >> You’re saying that with the I think Dart is going to send this game to overtime because Dart’s playing well. And that’s not what I didn’t I didn’t agree with you at the time because I thought that there’s no way that this defense was ever going to get a stop that would allow them to. And then lo and behold, Abdul Carter has this crazy force fumble and we thought that they had all these crazy laterals, but it turned out not to be. It turned out not to be. [laughter] >> Um, one more thing before I want to do another ad and then I want to get to Abdul Carter. >> Uh, I want to give a shout out to Tyron Tracy >> and the defense in general. >> Okay. I want to give a shout out to Tyrron and Tracy because we said on the preview pod if there’s one guy that we feel like needs needs to have a good game and needs to just for his own confidence in his career and his young career to kind of get back on the saddle, get back on the horse and just go forward. It’s Tyron Tracy. I was so pumped about the game that he had today. 15 carries for 70 yards, 4.7 yards per carry uh with that rushing touchdown. It was really nice. By the way, a third and 10. Like, hey, nice play call by Mike Kafka. We’ll never get to find out if he goes for it on fourth down. I’m glad we didn’t get to find out if he was going to go for it on fourth down, but like Tyrant Tracy think uh contacted at like the three yard line. Uh he muscles his way in. That’s awesome. Uh the receiving touchdown that he had that he had as well. Uh three catches, 27 yards, the 18yd touchdown was awesome over Bobby Wagner. Not the best coverage linebacker, but still uh you get to say that you caught a touchdown over Bobby Wagner on a wheel route. Really nice throw, really nice catch, back shoulder-ish. Uh awesome game for Tyrron Tracy. I’m really happy uh that he that he had a really great game and 15 carries for him, five carries for Deon Singleary. Uh happy that that split was like this coming out of the bye-week. Uh yeah, and that tells you that right Tyrone Tracy probably showed through the by-week that shoulder that had been ailing him for many many weeks look fully healthy. This is the Tyrone Tracy he won and this is the Tyrone Tracy we hope we could dream about to be that kind of compliment with Cam Scataboo and the kind of different styles they bring to the table. But also one thing I’ve been begging for through two years is just to keep in keep including Tyrone Tracy as a converted wide receiver in college in this passing game. Uh I actually you talked about the run. I I was more impressed with the touchdown catch and the route and everything that went into that. Um because that is how Tyrone Tracy could be a true weapon for this football team moving forward when we hope they’re actually a competitive team in 2026 and 2027. Um and arguably if you’re kind of ranking Giants through the final three weeks now of this season that you think like these reps and these games are the most important for um if you’re building the classic Mount Rushmore foreheads, Tyron Tracy’s probably on that Mount Rushmore, Justin. And I thought that’s why today was really important for him. >> Yeah, 100%. I was very very happy for him. >> I think you just need it from a confidence standpoint too, especially as Devin Singleary again was starting to eat away at his carries. He got the majority of the carries. He had two touchdowns. He looked good, especially in those two touchdowns. I was pretty happy for him. All right. Today’s episode is sponsored by Mando. It’s official. The holidays are around the corner. That means lights, gifts, gettogethers. Mando’s Mando’s countless benefits. That’s what they got. Uh they’re clinically proven 72 hour odor control. safe for the whole body and it stops odor before it starts. Mando comes in a number of formats like invisible spray, solid stick and invisible cream and comes in four cologne quality scents like bourbon leather, Mount Viji Pro Sport, Clover Woods. When I open this up and this is the bourbon leather, think in your head what bourbon leather smells like. Well, it smells like this. It’s pretty damn good and it’s the perfect gift. Trust me, after using it, you might just want to give some to yourself as well. And as a special offer to you, new our listeners, new customers, you can get 20% off sitewide with our exclusive code talking giants. All one word at shopmando.com for 20% off sitewide plus free shipping. That’s s h o pm-do.com. Please support our show. Tell him we sent you. Mando’s got you covered. Protect your pits. Smell great doing it. >> Thank you, Mando. >> Former flagged football teammate of mine, Brian Mando. He never smelled. >> Oh, never smelt. Did he found Did he found Is he the founder? You know, I’ve lost touch with him in the last couple years. Maybe he is. I’d have to talk to him. >> Little small world. You never know. Uh Dan Dugen tweet, Mike Kfka and Jackson Dart said the play that sent the quarterback to the medical tent was a pass. Uh Dart didn’t like the look, so he tried to just get back to the line. Uh Dart is at a loss for why he’s gotten sent off the field so frequently uh by officials and concussion spotters. This is to your point, Sean. He said he absolutely thinks he’s treated different than other players and doesn’t understand the increased sensitivity towards him. >> Yeah, I it’s so obvious on the field now. It It is so obvious. And I’m not saying that Jackson Dart doesn’t have to slide more. I’m not saying he doesn’t have to protect himself more, but we’ve took what was something and we’ve made it greater than it was to the point it’s it’s you can’t even function as a football quarterback if you’re going to treat him this way at this point. >> Yeah. And I just don’t know if that narrative goes away in September or not. Justin, you want to tell me they have to just bite the bullet these last three weeks and figure it out? But this can’t be a thing the next couple years where now this is just a stigma that hasn’t gone away and the Giants have to unfairly operate a red zone offense where they can’t run the quarterback because the reps immediately going to send him to the tent. It’s crazy. >> I hate to do this in the middle of the show. When did we ever say that we want to get rid of Dart? Never said that. Okay. Um he it was a pass. So he didn’t like the look at the line. >> There’s no opportunity to kill the play. >> There’s no opportunity to kill. There’s no opportunity. >> So he just wanted to get to the line with a run. That’s >> Dark didn’t like the look, so he just tried to get back to the line. There’s no kill. >> Maybe after he snapped the ball, he didn’t like the look at wide receivers not being open. I guess I I don’t know how I’d have to hear the audio to hear the context of that to be honest. >> Yeah, I I guess. Do you hear the Jamal Adams audible. >> Yeah. Did you hear that? That was pretty cool. Theo Johnson gets a 42 yard catch. >> Um >> why Jamal Adams, do you think? >> Maybe because it was a bum safety in coverage. >> Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. >> So I mean Theo you’re targeting Theo Johnson, you know, or a linebacker or a safety Jamal Adam coverage. They are lucky they converted that play because what I thought Jamal Adams meant was we’re throwing this away because Jamal Adams got the Jets a bunch of picks and we’re going to lose this game to get a bunch of picks. So that’s what I thought was going to happen. >> I don’t think that’s I don’t think that was their intention. >> Um >> thankfully. >> Yeah, that was cool. Okay, Jackson Dart, Tyron Tracy, uh Germaine Luminar. Not a fun series of events there, too. That’s like that’s like the only that’s like the only other thing on the top of my head. They ran the ball well. 29 attempts, 146 yards, five yards per carry. Uh Jackson Dark at 63 of those yards, too. Uh we talked about in the beginning how the offense seemed to get sparked when Jackson Dart started running and scrambling a little bit. I like Dart scrambling a little bit more than the designed runs, but also you can’t take that out of his game. Okay. >> Sure. >> Defense. >> Exactly. >> Defense. Uh I kind of feel I kind of feel bad that it’s been 43 minutes and we’re not you know this is I think this is like the in terms of player player storylines that’s like positive for the future. This is 100% the lead one with Abdul Carter and oh my god did Jonathan Vilma say over and over and over again he had a great week of practice. He had a he had his best week of practice. He had his best week of practice. So I guess the coaching staff Charlie Bullan really really uh reiterated that because Jonathan Vilma said it 75,000 times during the broadcast. Uh but it was a great game for Dual Carter. Five solo tackles, seven combined tackles, one sack. And this sack felt good. I I in my brain I will consider this game against Marcus Mariota versus Josh Connorly as the first like full real sack of Abdul Carter’s career. Uh cuz he got that sack uh and a force fumble on Marcus Mariota that the that the commanders wound up recovering. Uh he had three tackles for loss. One of them coming in like the first play of the game, I’m pretty damn sure. And then he had two more. Coming into this game, Abdul Carter only had one tackle for loss. He had a c quarterback hit. Game books count sack count sacks as QB hits. So, he had one on the game. Had two forced fumbles. One that was the one that was recovered by the Commanders. Another one later in the game that was recovered by the Giants. Unfortunately, all those laterals did not count. What a game for Abdul Carter. And if you ask Jonathan Vilma, it’s because he had a really good week of practice. >> Um, okay. So, I do think that plays into it. I want to just it I have a feeling of relief. Justin, I don’t know how you feel about Abdul Carter because if you remember there it was less about on the field. I mean maybe somewhat about like was he quitting routes or just the way he was handling postgame stuff. But it was in November of last year where a lot of people questioned the maturity of Malik Neighbors and if this is a play you can grow with. And then Malik Neighbor started answering questions differently and I felt like a light bulb went off and he had a really strong end to the year last year and was really impressive and everything he said in camp before he started and I wanted that so badly for Abdul Carter because I I’m old enough to remember the Malik Neighbors narrative that was out there and knowing now the crap that was out there about Abdul Carter. He’s owned um what he said I mean or what he’s done here with the meeting stuff. So to come out of a by-week have that good week that Vilma I do think that’s important. And I think that played on the field and maybe just maybe Abdul Carter needed that. Maybe he needed to finally see results on the field for the work he did put in um for that to go off and go, you know what, look, I I didn’t I had my head on straight this week. I had uh a couple fumbles. I had obviously the big sack. I had a play at the end of the game that maybe in an alternate universe sends this game to overtime. Um, I I think that could be really important for a young player that seems pretty fragile right now in terms of what his expectations are to act like a professional. Um, and and I was really glad to see Abdul Carter rewarded. Man, that that first strip sack that was OCR in his prime like man talking about Micah Parsons, that’s what that reminded me of as a Giant fan. He looked like freaking OCor around the edge. >> Do you want to know what I um what I called OC as like a 12-year-old? 2010 OC had like 10 force fumbles in one year. Something something crazy on like 12 sacks. >> Uh do you want to know what I gave him the nickname as like a as like a 12-year-old in the stands at Metife? >> What? >> I called him the stripper. >> Oh, I like that. And yeah, 12. A stripper joke is funny. >> I was I was 12. >> Very funny. >> Um no, but seriously, man. And >> threes left tackles like the pole. what I think practice like could do for a guy like Abdul Carter, right? Because he’s so naturally talented, right? >> But I think it’s simply just knowing where to be. H h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h having any kind of mental especially this I think this especially could show up in the run, right? knowing what could be happening, when it could be happening, how a lineman is going to get out of a stance and attack you, whether you’re lined up against a tackle or even he was starting to kill uh interior guys too, guards and centers. Tyler Bottish ate his lunch a couple times, kind of lining up as like this offball linebacker in the A gap and, you know, working him with quickness and working his hands, right? I think practice and being attentive and just doing the little extra the little extra can help you be that much better by being prepared, knowing where you need to be, and you can show off your freakish athletic ability and you can actually get results from it and not a bunch of almost if you know where you got to be and if you’re not like, okay, reacting to it live in the moment when the game of football is like this versus, all right, I’ve done this prep and I can go off of my instincts Now, now I know where to be and I can finish these plays again instead of getting a bunch of almost. I think that could be the difference for him. So, there is a real like as I made fun of Jonathan Vilma, there is a realness to Abdul Carter doing what he what he needs to do Monday through Friday so he can show up on Sunday and rock and roll. >> Yeah, it’s all about the fine details, Justin. And the details, as long as that goes into the freakish ability, it’s going to make all the all the difference in the world. And it did today. So, I’m pumped up for him. Hopefully, again, I talked about that Mount Rushmore with Tyrone Tracy. He’s got to be on there as well. By the way, we do live uh radio. Sorry if I glitched again here. This is such a weird frozen night out on Long Island here. >> Yeah, you’re you’re in a different you’re in a different spot than you normally. You also sound a little under the weather, too. >> Well, I’ll tell you why I sound this way. I sound this way because I got extremely drunk at a Ranger game last night and sprayed my head. They scored five goals. >> So, it’s not under the weather. >> You did look a little You did look like you were having a good time last night. I will say, >> listen, Justin, when you get the unlimited booze in a sweet and you have that kind of night, you know, it’s what you go for. >> Three tackles for again, three tackles for loss for Abdul Carter. Uh, one of them coming on the first play of the game where he really set a nice edge. The sack I’m looking at right now, the sack and and forest fumble. Looked like he did a ghost technique kind of dips under the shoulder of Josh Connelly. Loved that he beat Josh Connelly too a couple times and he was having a he was having some success against him because that was a draft crush of mine. And also Josh Connelly kind of got the better of him in the matchup. Uh Penn State versus Oregon. Kind of got the better better of him in that game. So I was happy that Abdul Carter got uh uh got some good plays and some good reps and some good wins against him. Um Abdul Carter did have a good game week one against the Commanders with both Tonsel and Connorly. So, it’s about >> That’s true. >> Um, you’re facing a horrible They will be facing a horrible offensive line like 2021 level of bad in my opinion >> next week against the No, I’m sorry. Next week is not the Raiders. Next week is against the Vikings. But whenever they play the Raiders, >> whenever they play the Raiders, they’ll be playing 2021 level of bad. Um, I want them to record to have another one of those dominant games. So, >> yeah. And speaking of the Raiders, just a quick anecdote, the Raiders are so bad. Their game versus the Eagles today was over in 2 and 1/2 hours. The game ended at 3:35 Eastern time today. >> Good for them. >> Imagine being that bad that the clock just runs like that. >> They got done nice and early. >> That game, Giants Raiders be the most important game since Super Bowl 46, but who am I kidding? >> I I don’t think I I have to check Doug analytics uh cuz he he’s been keeping everybody updated on this like great. I don’t think like even if the Giants and the Raiders if everybody just loses out, I still think strength of schedule-wise now because the Giants are playing bad teams to finish the year. I still think it’s possible that the Titans get the number one overall pick. >> Like I I think even if the Giants lose out, they will not get the number one overall pick. >> So the reports of them controlling their own destiny were uh were greatly overexaggerated. Is that what you’re saying? >> When did you see those reports? I thought I read them on Friday, but that honestly >> because changes. >> It just could be one of those things where Yeah. people and also those people who say those kind of things when they see them at the first like there’s a lot of people who report on the NFL cover the NFL who like forget how the strength of schedule stuff works and they probably just see, okay, Giants are number one now. So they lose out. That means they automatically get it and they don’t really look deeper into that. You’re probably right. >> Oh my god, the Philip Rivers. Oh my god, there’s something there’s something that >> I just saw him take a take a three-step drop back and just like fall and >> Oh no, >> it’s very bad. >> Uh let’s see. Did Doug tweet I don’t think Doug tweeted anything out about the number one overall pick yet. >> So we’ll uh I’ll I’ll have an update on that in the midweek because I am very I’m very very curious curious about that. So >> that’s that. Uh, also quick shout out defensively. Two games now that have been terrible losses with Charlie Bolan as the DC, but I’ve seen better stuff from Drew Phillips and Tyler Nuban in the last two weeks. >> Yeah, linebackers still suck. >> Small wins. >> The linebackers suck, but I’m just those guys as a second as a second round pick and a third round pick that we saw flashes of last year. I didn’t want them to be complete loss causes. So maybe just maybe Shane Bone was at terrible at least with those two guys specifically like Newan making more plays around the box. How about the the deflection in pass coverage that Drew Phillips made. I thought that was the prettiest play on defense outside of the adult quarter plays all day. Um, dude, again, those are those guys you can’t have be colossal failures on this team as uh, you know, where they were drafted for this team. You need them to be building blocks. So, I thought two straight games, no Shane Bowen, I thought those guys actually look better, too. >> Still incredible that safeties just aren’t allowed to touch a football on this defense. Uh, Javon Holland allows some catches today. It’s just incredible. It’s It’s incredible. >> Hunt returner Javon Holland, dude. Hunt return of Javon Holland because that’s what you >> Yeah, man. >> Yeah. Roster mismanagement. Oh, where does that come back to? The start of the podcast. We talked about general manager. Can’t call up air Mars. Couldn’t possibly do that. Why? Why claim Xavier Gibson? Couldn’t possibly do that. >> Yeah, let’s let’s leave off with talking about him, but uh first I do have to talk about DraftKings. Today’s episode is sponsored by DraftKings Casino. The holidays just got hotter. Cash Eruption continues to spread the heat and cheer at DraftKings Casino when six plus Chili Scatters hit. Things heat up. Trigger the Cash Eruption bonus and watch the reels. Lock in for fiery respins and jackpot wins. New players play five bucks and get 500 spins over 10 days on Cash Eruption games. Sign up today using promo code JM football so they know we sent you. DK Casino is safe, secure, and reliable. All right. Yeah, let’s uh mention them a lot at the top of the show. I’m kind of glad that we didn’t spend the whole show. I’m like, I’m glad that we talked about players and we talked about Dart and we talked about Carter. >> We talked about the game. We talked about the game as it should be. >> But like really I Sean I I still wholeheartedly feel even knowing the score is 29-21. They had an opportunity at the end to tie it. I I still feel if I if if if there was any kind of shot for Joe Shane to retain his job based on these last four games and even if they go two and two, even at this rate, if they still go two and two, I still think he’s done because this was awful. This was an awful loss and to look this bad, especially in the first half, he’s done. That’s what this game told me. I hope you’re right. I um I can’t say that you definitively are because there’s no way before this game started that the final four games of the season should have determined Joe Shane’s fate anyway. Like if you thought you were keeping him, not that you want to keep him, I’m just saying if your idea was you were keeping him, why would losing these last four games change your mind about that, and if you thought you were getting rid of him, well then winning any of these four games shouldn’t have swayed you the other way. The resume doesn’t need any add-on starting with today in the last three weeks after this. It doesn’t. The resume is the resume. >> But that’s the normal thinking, and this is what we talked about with Dugen. That’s the normal line of thinking. But that’s not their normal line of thinking. >> It’s ridiculous. their line of thinking could could be could be, “Oh my god, we finally played bad football teams and look, we finally beat the bad football teams. We just had a really hard schedule. We’re going to have an easier schedule next year.” So now that when we’re going to get more healthier and we’re going to get new coaching in here that’s going to fix the finer details, then it’ll be better. That’s a very bad explanation, but I could see them doing that if starting with today’s game went differently. But you can’t do that. You can’t even do that. >> Well, then if that’s if you can’t even do that. And again, okay, Joe Shane screwed up the kicker. Uh gave Sllayton money. Like again, you played Joe Shane bingo today. So maybe if that’s the way it is and that’s the way they’re going to operate, then this counts. But what can happen then is you can’t beat the Raiders in two weeks and that’d be like the Colt game last year where that save jobs and you just go all you need is one. I hope it’s not all you need is one because I’m still highly confident >> they’re gonna beat the Raiders. So, it can’t be all you can need is one because the Raiders have totally given up on football. >> And honestly, Sean, if they want to get a jump, right, because I I I was talking about this with Doug again, Doug, in the midweek episode, we were talking about like the timeline of firing Joe Shane or even hiring the next general manager. Are you are you really are you how many backdoor conversations are you going to have about the next general manager when Tim McDonald is buddy buddy with Joe Shane when it seems like Joe Shane is close to a lot of people in this building like how how many backdoor conversations you’re going to have they were having those conversations in 2021 because it was a foregone conclusion that Dave Guttleman is going to retire he knew that. Everybody knew that. So that’s what they identified early on that they were going to that Joe Shane was their guy. Adam Peters kind of came in at the last minute and kind of blew everybody away. So I think Adam Peters made them think twice about things, but Joe Shane was their guy that they identified early on. If you remember if you and I know this because if you remember the day that the season ended in 2021, what did I do on this very channel? I put out here is an early look at Joe Shane and everything you need to know about Joe Shane as a general manager. I did that strategically because I had I had a a feeling and maybe heard something and I’m not a reporter. So the fact that if I’m hearing it and I’m not a reporter then it’s like oh damn well they’re pretty loose-lipped about this. Right. >> Right. So, if they want to get a jump at GM, which it may take them time, it may take them a little time to hire somebody, why not? If you know that he’s gone, fire him tomorrow. Fire him tomorrow. And I’m serious about this. >> Uh, I agree. I agree. If if Mike Kfka being can be an interim head coach, Brendan Brown could surely be an interim general manager to navigate what they got to do with practice squad elevations for the next three weeks. Surely he could. Surely he could. >> Yeah. Although then that would be interesting. If you won two of the last three games and Brendon Brown was the interim GM, does that mean he should get the job? >> No. This is it, Sean. This is it. This is it. Marcus Demarcus Mariota led Washington Commanders just put 29 points up against you. All three phases fell apart today. >> And it happened, Justin. First time in our lifetime. The Washington Commanders football team Redskins swept the New York Giants in back-to-back seasons for the first time since 1981 1982. >> Joe Thyman or even before Joe Thyman? >> It was before Joe Thyman. >> Wow. >> Pre thighs. Pre thighs. >> All right. So, uh, >> all they do is wing. >> I’m holding out I’m holding out a This may be too high. I’m holding out a 25% hope that Joe Shane is fired tomorrow. >> Not gonna happen. Not gonna happen. >> Wesley Steinberg tweeted it out. >> Let me tell you something right now. If Joe Shane does get fired tomorrow, we got to start investigating who the hell Wesley Steinberg is because he’s ju he’s had just enough proper guesses while being a complete funny uh funny hack account. >> There are times where he’s lying. There are times where I think he’s telling the truth. But it’s within a lie. Like Abdul Carter whacking off in the whacking off in the team meeting, >> but he knew that he was missing it, right? >> But he knew he said Abdul Carter is sitting for the first quarter tonight. >> That was the truth. The false was whacking off in the team meeting. I don’t think Abdul Carter was whacking off in the special teams meeting. Even though, hey, if I were in a special teams meeting, I would I would think about doing crazy things, too. I would be bored out of my mind. First, first of all, Justin, in honor of 1981 and 1982 when Washington last did this, you’re using the phrase whacking off. That’s fascinating. Second of all, remember it’s it’s a PG crap. >> Wesley Steinberg Wesley Steinberg simply said he was watching porn. He never said he was enjoying it. >> Oh, all right. Well, sorry. I don’t remember Wesley Steinberg’s reports like that. >> Oh, believe me, I did. >> Well, I mean, if you’re What you’re What are you watching? Porn just like take in like uh like it’s Netflix. No, >> there are people that watch porn, you know, and they uh they enjoy the story lines. I have a friend that does that. >> Yeah. >> You you stop it when you stop the video when the story line ends. >> Well, you want to see the end. >> No, no, no. When the acting is done in the beginning, that’s when you turn it off. It’s like, all right, I’m I don’t need this anymore. >> I watch it for the story lines. >> Do you like the pizza delivery guy or the mailman? mailman. Um, all right. So, Joe Shane fired tomorrow according to Wesley Steinberg. Um, and and I 25% believe it. >> Let me tell you something. Joe Shane gets fired tomorrow and and I’d feel bad for Joe himself. >> Yes. >> That’ll be as that’ll be as relieved as the Giant fan base has been in a long time because it is, as we wrap this podcast, the one thing hanging around the neck of every Giant fan is just the distrust with the organization that they are going to do exactly what they did with Dave Gtlman and then have him hire another head coach. that happens tomorrow and happens before we don’t have to wait for Black Monday. Completely different feel. So I would actually give the >> and I would give the Giants a ton of credit if they actually did that and maybe that would lead to spec it could be lead to speculation that Marcus Freeman is going to get hired here in one total control. So we’ll see more on that. That’s why you got to download and subscribe to Talking Giants everywhere you podcast because you got to get midweek episodes too. >> Wow. How do you like that? And Sean will join me for another midweek episode if Joe Shane’s fired. Um >> let’s go. >> So all right. Well, that’s going to that’s going to do it. If you don’t hear from us tomorrow, that means that Joe Shane’s not fired. Uh, if you hear from us on Wednesday, it probably means that Joe Shane is still here. Um, get a jump. Get get a jump. Don’t Don’t worry about having these backdoor conversations and whispering behind people’s backs. Uh, if you’re going to do the damn thing, if you want to do the damn thing, do the damn thing now and get ahead of it. Because knowing you, you’re probably gonna sit on your hands or sit on your ass and figure out what you want to do and then everybody’s gonna pass you by. Knowing you. >> All right. I love it. >> Thank you, Sean. Thank you for listening. Let’s go Giants. >> Let’s go.

The Giants lose to the Commanders 29-21. Justin and Shaun react to the 8th loss in a row and whether this will be in for Giants GM Joe Schoen

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