CLEVELAND, Ohio — In baseball’s eternal cat-and-mouse game between pitchers and hitters, sometimes the most telling moments happen between pitches.
Such was the case Tuesday night in Houston, when Guardians manager Stephen Vogt pulled a rarely-seen strategic move that immediately raised eyebrows – and questions about whether the Astros might be up to their old tricks.
In the sixth inning of Cleveland’s eventual 10-6 victory, Vogt instructed reliever Cade Smith to intentionally balk Mauricio Dubón to third base, rather than allow him to remain at second where he might relay pitch information to Houston’s hitters.
“Houston is very good at relaying signs from second base picking up the pitchers’ tendencies and relaying them to the hitter or to the bench,” Paul Hoynes of cleveland.com explained on the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast, recounting Vogt’s postgame comments.
The decision wasn’t made lightly. It came just days after Smith was knocked around by Detroit in a disastrous outing where he surrendered six runs (four earned) in just one-third of an inning – a performance that immediately had Cleveland’s staff suspecting pitch tipping.
“The Guardians felt that he was tipping his pitches,” Hoynes said. “So to avoid that happening again. That’s why they balked him.”
The move immediately conjures memories of Houston’s infamous 2017-18 sign-stealing scandal, where the organization was found to have used technology to steal signs – a violation that resulted in organizational penalties but controversially no player suspensions.
While what the Astros might be doing now would be considered legal – players have always tried to decode pitchers’ tendencies and relay that information without technological assistance – the intentional balk serves as a reminder of the psychological element constantly at play in baseball.
“Those guys don’t miss much. You know, on both sides of the diamond and both dugouts, they’re always looking to dissect a pitcher,” Hoynes noted. “And with the PitchCom now, you can’t steal a catcher’s signals, so you really concentrate on the pitcher.”
What makes the situation particularly fascinating is the difference between legal gamesmanship and crossing the line. As Joe Noga of cleveland.com pointed out: “If you’re good at it, at seeing those kinds of things, relaying those kinds of things to your teammate without the use of technology of any kind, without the use of any sort of outside means, I guess that’s part of the game.”
The intentional balk is exceedingly rare in baseball. Hoynes recalled the last time he witnessed one: “May 3, 2005 … Bob Wickman, that crafty closer. He did it against the Twins at the old Metrodome.”
What’s perhaps most impressive is how Smith handled the unusual situation. After intentionally balking Dubón to third, putting the potential tying run just 90 feet away, Smith calmly retired dangerous hitter Isaac Paredes to end the inning.
“Nothing really upsets him,” Hoynes said of Smith. “He doesn’t show any emotion. So the guy balks him … and then he’s facing Isaac Paredes … one of the most dangerous hitters, he just retires him on a pop-up.”
Whether this is an isolated incident or part of a larger pattern remains to be seen, but the chess match between the Guardians and Astros added another fascinating chapter to baseball’s endless strategic battles.
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Note: Artificial intelligence was used to help generate this story from the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast by cleveland.com. Visitors to cleveland.com have asked for more text stories based on website podcast discussions.
Podcast transcript
Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes from Houston, where the Guardians win their second straight in 10 innings. They beat the. The Astros 10 to 6, you know, taking a big lead in the game. You know, the, the Astros rallied back, tied the game, and then Angel Martinez coming through with the grand Islam in the 10th inning. That, that, that put things away. Hoynsie. The Guardians struggled to score runs for such a long stretch there. And now in, in back to back games, they’ve put, you know, crooked numbers on the board in multiple innings. They’re, they’re hitting home runs, they’re coming through with big hits in situations. It’s a small sample. Just two games against the Astros, who were playing well before the Guardian showed up to town. But just what’s your takeaway from these last two games in Houston, particularly last night, where, you know, it looked like things were going to, you know, sort of revert back to the, the losing streak, the ways of the, the, the, the struggle there at the end of the game. But, but Angel Martinez basically came through and saved him.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. Big grand Islam in the 10th inning. They did it. He did it off one of the best relievers in baseball, Josh Hader. I was looking at the stats, Joe. Angel Martinez’s father, Sandy Martinez, played parts of eight years in the big leagues, hit six home runs, no grand slams. His kid has already hit nine home runs with a slam. So, you know, those two talk every night after every game. So we talked to angel last night. He said he had already talked to his dad and his dad was very, very happy with him.
Joe Noga: Yeah, I can, I can imagine that would make you make him happy. The other thing that makes him happy, that was a unicorn home run that was a 1 of 30 home run. The only place in Major League baseball that. That ball that Angel Martinez hit that would have gone out is, is the Crawford Boxes, the front row, a wall scraper, if you will, at, at the Houston ballpark there. Formerly known as Minute Maid. I forget what they call it now. What’s the. The bacon? Dakin park sponsors Dakin Park. Okay. Dakin Park. Yeah. Just, you know, when that ball came off the bat, what were your initial thoughts?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I thought. I didn’t know if it was out or in, Joe. It was like he skied it and, you know, but the more the ball carried and you were watching the left fielder, he went all the way back to the wall and it just kind of, like you said, fell into the first seat. You know, he he hit the ball hard, but it was mostly he headed straight up in the air. But they were fortunate enough that it carried and gave him, you know, a big cushion for Emmanuel Class A to come in at the bottom of the 10th and close the door.
Joe Noga: Yeah, that, that definitely sort of took the pressure off. I, I believe was that the third straight day pitching for Emmanuel Class A. I gotta, gotta think that he might be down for tonight as well.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think you’re right. Yes. Yeah. Class A, third straight day was Hunter Gattis’s third straight day. Gattis pitching three days in a row for the first time in his career. So that bullpen has kind of been strapped for sure.
Joe Noga: One of the things that we saw last night, speaking of the bullpen, something that we, we don’t see a lot of a rare feat, a rare occurrence. The intentional bach was, was dusted off and brought out with, with Cade Smith on the mound. Tell us about what Stephen Vogt was thinking in that moment.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, definitely. When this was in the sixth inning, Joe, Cade Smith came on in relief of Eric Zabrowski, 2 out, Maur on, on second base after leadoff double. And vote had Kate Smith step off the pitching rubber three straight times, you know, simulating three disengagements. And the umpires balked him to set to third base because you know, Vote after the game said Houston is very good at relaying signs from second base, you know, picking up pitchers, the pitchers tendencies and, and relay them to the hitter or to the bench, whatever. And you know, this, you know, hearkened back to Sunday’s game when you know, Cage smith in the 10th inning was knocked around, gave up six earned run, six runs, four earned in one third of an inning against the Tigers. And right away, you know, the Guardians felt that he was tipping his pitches. So to avoid that happening again. That’s why they balked him. They balked you Bond at third base. And it reminded me, know, the last time I saw this happen, Joe, was in May 3, 2005 against it was Bob Wickman, you know, that crafty, the crafty Guardians closer. And he did it against the Twins at the, at the old Metrodome. So I don’t think Eric Wedge, I believe was the manager. I don’t think Wedge called that one. This was he. Whitman did that by himself. I don’t think Wedge was real happy. But this one came from the bench last night.
Joe Noga: But that brings up, you know, an interesting situation. Like Kate Smith up until that game on Sunday hadn’t given up a home run during the regular season this year, he gives up two. Gives up a home run to Trey Sweeney, who, you know, not exactly the, the biggest power hitter in the. In the Detroit lineup. How does Cade Smith move forward and. And B M basically make an adjustment there? Is there something he can work on to sort of not tip his pitches, you know, as he does his side work during the week or, you know, whatever between appearances?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I was talking to Cade after the game, and he wasn’t really convinced that he was tipping his pitches. He thought perhaps he was. Perhaps, you know, the Detroit hitters just making a. Made an adjustment to him. But, you know, I was talking to Zabrowski too, and he said Dubon was really zeroing in on him. He said he wasn’t trying to hide it. You know, he could kind of feel his presence on the. When he was on the mound, so obviously something was going on. You know, those guys don’t miss much. You know, on both sides of the diamond and both dugouts, they’re always looking to dissect a pitcher. And with, you know, with the pitchcom Joe now, you know, you can’t steal a catcher signals, so you really concentrate on the hitter. And they thought Cade may have been, you know, the way he held his glove on certain pitches, this was against Detroit, that he may have been tipping off some pitches, you know, just by.
Joe Noga: The way the glove moved or, or just, you know, in the way that you. You dig your hand into the glove or. Yeah, yeah, you know, for, for a pitcher to have to, you know, be neutral and, and sort of vary up their, their looks and. And that kind of thing. Maybe it gives Kaden now an advantage to come back and sort of change things if, if teams think they have a book on him. But it’s interesting, you know, you’re in Houston, we’re talking about sign stealing or pitch tipping or what teams can do legally sort of to cheat. And if you’re good at it, at stealing those kinds of. Or at seeing those kinds of things, relaying those kinds of things to your teammate without the use of technology of any kind, without the use of any sort of outside means, I guess that’s part of the game. And that’s something that I guess Houston is now back into doing after the, you know, the 2017, 2018 sign stealing scandal that allegedly uses. Used technology and the, basically the, The Astros players were not punished for. But the game does have a way of policing itself. And if you’re up there to, to steal pitches or relays, you know, what’s coming to the, to the batter. The next time you get up there you might, you might find one in your ribs or, or if Stephen Voats calling it from the, the bench. Remember you’re supposed to only hit him in the thigh. Right.
Paul Hoynes: The thing I liked about it Joe, I mean you know how Cade Smith is on the mound, you know just nothing really tried upsets him. He doesn’t show any emotion. So the guy box him to box to bond at third base and then you know he’s facing. Isaac Paredes is on, is, is at the plate one of the most dangero and hitters he just retires him on a papo. You know it was like okay, you know that guy’s on third base. You know we’re in a, I think it was a one run game or you know, really a tight game and I just put the guy 90ft away from scoring a run and so I’ll just get the, I’ll just get this guy and end the inning. And he just kind of walked off the mound like there was nothing, you know, nothing phases that guy.
Joe Noga: Yeah, any guy who can take 106 mile an hour line drive to the bill of his cap and then strike out the next battery phases has my vote as ice cold. You know, nothing’s going to phase him. So. Yeah, just an interesting moment from last night’s game. Another interesting performance from last night’s game. Brian Rocchio, he is trying to make the most of his return to the big leagues with the Gabriel Arias ankle injury. He has been out there a couple of times in this series. Been on base a bunch last night. A big home run, a big RBI double. Just what’s different about, about Brian Rocchio right now.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah Joe, this is I guess the Brian Rocchio they wanted to see from opening day when he was the opening day shortstop. They, they did not see that that earned him a trip to Triple A Columbus. And he, he told me, he told reporters after the game that he kind of rediscovered himself at Columbus. You know he played like 41 games, 47 games down there and really you know, got to you know, kind of really think about what kind of player he wants to be. What you know, what kind of player he has to be to get to the big leagues to stay to the big leagues, to stay in the big leagues. And I think we saw really a sample of that Monday night two sack bounce in a two run double and then carried over into tonight into last night with three hits, a double, a home run, a single. Now you know, he told me after the game. He said, you know, I’m not going to hit a home run every, every night. But this is, you know, this is the kind of player he wants to be. He’s, he’s working toward being more of an offensive minded player, you know, well rounded.
Joe Noga: C.H.
Paul Hoynes: George, stop. And you know, so far, you know, out of the number nine spot in the lineup, you’ve got to like what he’s done.
Joe Noga: Yeah, Rocchio has hit at every level. He’s, he’s been at the, the last one. The major leagues is, is the hardest level to hit at. So you’ve just got to be patient and give him some time to do that. I think the organization is, is well aware of that. And, and, and who knows, you know, once Gabriel Arias is ready to come back off the injured list, if Brian Rocchio is hitting the way he has over the last two games, that’s going to make it make for a tough decision.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, that’s, you know, you go right back to opening day Joe, when, you know, Rocco was a starting shortstop, Arias was starting at second base and kind of bouncing around all over the place. But Arias is having, you know, basically a career season for him as well. He’s what, second or third on the team in rbi, you know, not with a great batting average, but, you know, playing good defense. So, yeah, really an interesting position to put the front office and Stephen Vogt in when Aries is healthy. And when we saw him at the end of the last home stand against the Tigers, he was feeling very good. He was taking infield, he was running sprints, taking bp. So I think he’s close.
Joe Noga: Yeah, I don’t think it’s going to be much of a lengthy stint left or anything beyond that, that 10 days originally, but who knows, he might have to go out and have a couple of rehab assignments or, you know, playing a couple of games just to get his timing down. But we’ll see what they do with Gabriel Arias when that decision comes around. John Kenzie Noel, another guy who you talked to, he’s up in place of Kyle Manzardo at this point. What did, what did John Kenzie Noel talk about when, when he spent his time down in the minor leagues?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. John Kenzie said he was not disappointed when they sent him down. He knew, you know, he kind of knew. He saw the writing on the wall, he knew it was coming and he said, you know, look it, I’m going to go down, I’m going to concentrate on hitting. I’m going to be ready when you guys need me. And he went down, Joe. I mean, this is like somebody flipped a switch. I mean, he, all of a sudden he’s hitting.280 with five home runs, 17 RBIs, he’s got a bunch of doubles, you know, and he did it, what, in 27, 30, 30 games, something like that. He really got together with Batantis, the, the hitting coach down there, Luis Ortiz, one of the traveling hitting coaches. He worked with them a lot and he said he never lost his confidence. He said, you know, I know who, what kind of player I am. I know what kind of hitter I am. That’s why I was able to go down there and put up some good numbers. And he just said, thank God I’m back. But I’m not sure exactly how long.
Joe Noga: He’S going to be. Yeah, it’s, there are a lot of different factors that go into that, including how close Chase Delater is and what their plans are for bringing him along. As we’ll see, he continues to hit at the AAA level and continues to prove what the scouts have already told Chris Antonetti and that’s that he’s ready for a major league assignment and the opportunity just has to present itself. The guy who had a major league assignment present itself and giving him a couple of starts here now his second one is Joey Cantillo, went out for another four innings and, and really looked pretty strong again.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe, I really liked the way he pitched. He kind of bobbed and weaved. He came off the ropes a couple times. He got himself into trouble, but he’s, you know, he’s got those great off speed pitches and he was able to strike out seven guys in four innings, you know, and get, and he got those strikeouts in big situations with guys, you know, on first and second, first and third through four innings. And you kind of ran into some problems in the fifth when, when Houston put together a three run inning and they had to go to the bullpen. But I thought another positive step, Joe, this guy we got to remember Cantillo is still getting stretched out. That’s why they sent him to Columbus. He was up to, I think, close to 70 pitches last night. So, you know, he’s, I think he’s getting there. He’s getting, he’s getting stretched out. He’s getting to a point where he should be able to give you five to six innings, you know, in the next couple times out.
Joe Noga: Speaking of getting five to six innings, playing a whole game, you know, defensive strategy, Stephen Vogt talked about his philosophy, his thinking, his usage of his catchers in late game situations. Just what’s, what’s on Stephen Vogt’s mind when it comes to where and when Austin Hedges will be jumping in to sub for Bo Naylor.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, this was a really interesting move Monday night, Joe, in the, in the ninth inning with, you know, the Guardians. The Guardians leading seven to five. You know, Bo Naylor had caught Emmanuel Class, I mean, had caught the whole, the first eight innings. So, you know, vote makes the decision to put, put Austin Hedges in there in the ninth inning to catch Emmanuel Class A. And it was a, it was a direct reflection on, to me on what happened Sunday against the Tigers when Naylor couldn’t handle a wild pitch by Class A, let the ball go through his legs, the tying run scores from third base, and the Guardians go on to lose their 10th straight when the Tigers have a big 10th inning. So, you know, all of a sudden, the next, in the very next game, you know, with Class A on the mound, Hedges is in there. Not, not class, not. Not Josh Naylor. I mean, Bo Naylor, I should say. And, you know, you could tell, I thought on Sunday that class was not really happy with, you know, with, with him not being able, with Naylor not being able to knock that ball down. He was kind of stepping around, walking around the mound after it happened. It cost him a blown save. So I don’t know what, you know. Vogt said he talked to Naylor in the moment before he made the move. He talked to him again yesterday, yesterday morning about the move. He said he didn’t. He does not think he hurt his confidence, he said, because, you know, we’ve got a good relationship. I’ve talked to him every day and he said that’s not going to be a normal practice. He said. I mean, he said Naylor is one of the best catchers in the world. He also said that Hedges is the best defensive catcher in the world. So I don’t know, Joe, we’ve got two, we’ve got two of the best catchers in the world on the Guardians right now. But, but it was interesting even last night when he said it wasn’t going to be a normal practice. Edges ended up catching Class A in the bottom of the tenth.
Joe Noga: Yeah. Which makes me wonder, is it a move necessarily, you know, prompted by vote, or is it something to keep Class A happy and something coming out? Class A, I don’t know. You know, it’s probably not a really good practice to have your, your pitcher picking and choosing which catcher he wants to throw to that, you know, he has to be able to throw to both guys. But it is so close to that mistake happening. So close to, you know, things being so raw still from Sunday’s loss, maybe just in that particular moment is when Vogue chose to. Those line hedges and class A up together.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think that, that, that may have played a part in it, Joe, but if you’re a manager, you do not want to do that. You don’t want to have your pitchers picking the catchers they’re going to throw to. That’s your job.
Joe Noga: Yeah, that’s. And especially if you’re a manager who was a catcher, that’s sort of a signature thing for, for you there as well. You know, gotta mention last night that the Guardians offense, which, you know, had just been in a terrible funk throughout that whole, you know, 10 game losing streak, scoring, you know, batting under 100, I think during the streak, it just, just awful on the homestand prior to that. But they go out against Hunter Brown, who is in the conversation to start the All Star Game for the American League. You know, one of the best pitchers in the AL in all of baseball this season. And Josh Hader, one of the best closers, one of the best relief pitchers in all of baseball. You know, consistently over the last several years, they, they score six against Hunter Brown and they score three against Josh Hayter, three earned against Josh Hader. Nobody has done either of those two things. This is an offense that can get runs on the board if they basically come through in those big at bats.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe, it’s, it’s really interesting. I mean, you can’t really keep a team down.
Joe Noga: You can’t.
Paul Hoynes: They, you know, they struggle for 10 games and we, we saw it. I mean, they could not buy a big hit to get to save their lives. But you know, in the last two games they’ve got, you know, they’ve done that now that. The thing is, Joe, they have to be consistent. Bad teams will do this, bad teams will go along and look terrible, then have two games where they, you know, flood vapes open and they score 10 runs in each game and then they go back to being themselves. So the, the true test here for the Guardians is going to come. What do they do in the next week? The, the coming out of the All Star break? What do they do in the next 10, 20 games? Was this a mirage or was is this really kind of a revelation?
Joe Noga: All right, well, this, this entire podcast has been a revelation. Hoins checking again with you tomorrow on the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. We’ll see you then.
Paul Hoynes: All right, Joe.
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