CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Guardians organization is reeling from what longtime beat reporter Paul Hoynes describes as one of the franchise’s darkest days. In the latest episode of the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast, Hoynes and co-host Joe Noga dive deep into the shocking allegations that have now ensnared not one, but two key pitchers in a gambling scandal that threatens to derail the team’s season and beyond.
“This organization has had bad days before, lots of them, but this ranks right up there,” Hoynes said, underscoring the magnitude of the crisis facing the Guardians.
The bombshell news that Emmanuel Clase — the team’s All-Star closer and franchise saves leader — has joined starter Luis Ortiz on MLB’s paid non-disciplinary leave list sent shockwaves through Progressive Field on Monday. Both pitchers now face investigations related to sports gambling activities, with potential lifetime bans looming over their careers.
“I was shocked,” Hoynes admitted on the podcast. “The people I’ve been talking to while working on this story had told me that Ortiz was the only Guardians player or staff member involved. But We’ve since learned that in investigating Ortiz, that investigation led them to Clase.”
The expanding investigation has raised serious questions about the integrity of the game and the judgment of these players. MLB has placed both pitchers on paid, non-punitive administrative leave through August 31st while the investigation continues.
“You’re talking about two prominent pitchers, one a starter, one the best closer in franchise history, and they both could be looking at lifetime bans,” Hoynes explained.
This scandal follows a disturbing pattern in baseball, with former Guardians pitcher Michael Kelly and San Diego utility player Tucupita Marcano previously receiving suspensions for similar infractions. Marcano received a lifetime ban, setting a precedent that could apply to Clase and Ortiz.
Cleveland’s front office, led by Chris Antonetti, has maintained that the organization fulfilled its educational responsibilities regarding gambling rules. When questioned about what more could be done, Hoynes recounted Antonetti’s perspective: “I asked if there is there another layer that you can put in, another layer of protection? He said, it’s something we might have to look into.”
The timing couldn’t be worse for a Cleveland team competing for a playoff spot. The absences were immediately felt in Monday’s 8-6 loss to Colorado, when reliever Cade Smith struggled in the ninth inning — a situation where Clase would typically have slammed the door.
“We saw the end result of it’s not only hurting the team’s reputation, it’s not only drawing fans to question the great game of baseball, the integrity of it, what’s going on on the field, but it’s affecting the ball club,” Hoynes said.
Beyond the immediate on-field implications, the podcast hosts explored the deeper damage to trust within the clubhouse and the organization’s future plans.
“I think trust is the biggest thing that you can have in that clubhouse with this situation,” Noga said. “These guys absolutely broke their teammates trust.”
As the Guardians face the remainder of the season without two key arms, the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast will continue to provide the most insightful coverage of this developing story and its far-reaching implications.
Podcast transcript
Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. I’m Joe Noga joined from the broadcast booths here at Progressive Field by Paul Hoynes. We’re both at the the game here Monday as the Guardians fall to The Colorado Rockies 86 In a game where they had a late lead but let things slip away. But the game sort of secondary. It’s not the main story of the day, Hoynsey. The big news of the day is Emmanuel Clase joining Luis Ortiz as Guardians, Pitchers who have placed on paid non punishment administrative leave while Major League Baseball investigates allegations connected to sports gambling. When you and I finished recording our first podcast of the day this morning, it was only a few minutes later that the news broke and we got word that Major League Baseball was investigating Clase. What was your immediate gut reaction when you found out that Clase faces what could be ultimately a lifetime ban in the sport?
Paul Hoynes: I was shocked, Joe. The people I’ve been talking to while working on this story had told me that Ortiz was the only Guardians player or staff member involved. But I’ve since learned that, you know, in the, in investigating Ortiz, that investigation led them to Class A. And Joe, this organization has had bad days before, lots of them, but this is, this ranks right up there. You’re talking about two prominent pitchers, one a starter, one the best closer in franchise history, at least the top save saver in, in franchise history. And they both could be looking at lifetime bans. The Investigation goes through August 31st. We’ve already seen it extended once on Ortiz. It would not surprise me if it gets extended again, Joe, because these guys are in trouble. This is, this is not screwing around anymore. And we saw the end result of it’s not only hurting the team’s reputation, it’s not only, you know, drawing fans to question, you know, the great game of baseball, the integrity of it, what’s going on on the field, but it’s, it’s, it’s affecting the ball club and you know, they’ve had to make major changes on this team and we saw the result of it tonight.
Joe Noga: Yeah. If I took you back to July 1, you know, before we got word of Luis Ortiz’s suspension and before all of this started and you looked at what the Guardians have in terms of their starting rotation starting to come around and really sort of blossom and the youth that’s behind it and Emmanuel Clase, you know, under team control for three more years after this, you would probably tell me that things this team was in good shape. Now, you take away a guy who looked like he could have been a foundational piece in that rotation for years to come. And you take away the, probably the, like you said, the greatest closer this, this organization has known at least in the last, you know, 15 to 20 years. You’re talking about just two devastating blows.
Paul Hoynes: Did.
Joe Noga: Are the, are the Guardians able to recover this year and make a push for the playoffs? Are the Guardians able to recover beyond this just based on what they thought they had and what they thought they were going to be able to do?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I, I do not think they, they recover from this, Joe. I think this is, this is a, like a body blow right before the trading deadline. A. If you were going to trade Class A, which there was a lot of rumors that you were going, they were going to trade them, you can’t trade them now. You can’t trade Ortiz. Obviously, you know who’s going to take them. And you know, Chris Antonetti said, you know, I guess inferred that today when we talked to him that he, it’s, you can’t, you know, there’s, there’s rules that you, you can’t trade them when a player is on leave. So it’s just, you know, just really a mess. And you know, with Ortiz, you had a guy like you were saying, Joe, you know, a guy that could be a 200 inning pitcher, a 30 start pitcher, he’s young, he’s got what, four or five years of control left and he may just throwing his whole career away. You know, I mean it’s, it’s mind boggling. And you know, we have, this is, you know, I think we’ve undersold this story for a while now with Class A in there. And you know, fortunately, I guess MLB has told Cleveland, the organization that they’re not looking at anybody else in the organization. No other players, no other staff members, no other employees. But you know, I heard the same thing before that. So who knows where this investigation leads, but it’s not going to be good news for a Class A Ortiz.
Joe Noga: Right. And we had heard that that line about nobody else was being looked at until we learned about the Class A investigation. So the investigation is going to take and run its course. It’s going to go in whatever direction it goes. But you know, my question is, and a question that we posed to Chris Antonetti this afternoon, what is the organization done since the Luis Ortiz investigation was announced to sort of address this issue or did have they done anything? And what Antonetti fell back on was, hey, in, in spring training, we, we put these guys through the paces. We Tell everybody in spring training what the rules are. We explain it in English, we explain it in Spanish. We make sure that they know what the rules are. So, ostensibly, Antonetti put this on the two individuals, Luis Ortiz and Emmanuel Clase. As you know, this in. In Antonetti’s mind, it’s not an organizational failing, it’s an individual one.
Paul Hoynes: Well, you know, I think mlb, the, you know, investigative office, meets with every team in spring training and goes through just what you were talking about, Joe. They put on, you know, skits. They tell you. Tell you what place places to avoid in your different cities. They, you know, they. They introduce to the players how they can get scammed, and they talk gambling. And. But I was talking to Antonetti later today or after, you know, the press conference, and he was. I asked him, is there another layer that you can put in, another layer of protection? You know, he was kind of. He said, it’s something we might have to look into. But how do you do that, Joe? What do you do? You hire, what, a former FBI agent and what he follows at your players around every day? I don’t know how you do that. Sooner or later, these guys are all 23, 24, 25. You know, they’ve got to take responsibility for it. You know, they know the rules. They know you can’t gamble. They’re not. They’re not stupid. This is. This is playing. It’s. It’s posted in every clubhouse on, In. In. In the big leagues and in the minor leagues, too.
Joe Noga: And, And I go back to last season when, you know, a former Guardians pitcher, Kelly, was, you know, suspended for something similar. And the utility guy for San Diego, Marcon, he was suspended. He was given a lifetime ban for gambling. And then I look at, you know, Marcon Ortiz and class A and, you know, I wonder, is there anything in common there, you know, being Latin players being from a foreign country and, you know, having language barriers and those sort of things. Is that something that makes certain groups of players more susceptible to being taken advantage of in this way? And I’m not trying to. To, you know, make this any sort of issue of, you know, anything beyond a player being taken advantage of, but, you know, do they need to put extra protections in place for, you know, players who have language barriers or any sort of difficulty understanding things? And again, I go back to Antonetti saying this is, you know, they’ve done their due diligence in terms of making sure that everybody understood what the. What the rules were with gambling.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, you know, I think you’re right. There, Joe. I mean, you know, every. Every team has an academy in the Dominican Republic or in Venezuela where these players go through, you know, they. They go through, you know, go to school, they go to base. You know, obviously they’re in there to play baseball, but they learn the English language. You know, they learn rudimentary skills, and, you know, gambling is part of it. And I remember Alex Cora, when he played here, you know, there’s now the Boston’s manager. You know, I asked him, there was some incident like this that came up, and I. And he said, you know, hey, those rules are written in Spanish as well as English. You know, these guys know that all they have to do is read it or ask somebody else. They know the rules. So, you know, it’s, you know, I can. I understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t think that’s a legitimate excuse. You know, you come to the big leagues, you better act like a big leaguer or you’re going to get tossed out on your ear.
Joe Noga: Yeah. And the bottom line is whether you believe it or not or whether buy it does. Does Major League Baseball buy it and what could be the penalties? You know, we don’t want to get too far ahead of ourselves. We heard Chris Antonetti reiterate that multiple times in his press conference today. You know, don’t get too far, far ahead and prejudge before the investigation runs its course. But ultimately, these guys are facing lifetime bans from, from the sport. Should Guardian’s fans, you know, start thinking and start operating from the perspective of these guys aren’t going to be part of this organization moving forward.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I would think, you know, they better start separating themselves from this. Hopefully, you know, this all works out. Hopefully, you know, the charges, whatever the investigation turns up, nothing or, or, you know, they are, you know, cleared of any allegations. Ortiz and Class A, that would be the best, you know, the best outcome. But, Joe, this thing is running through August. You know, something. Obviously something happened here. You know, there’s, there’s, you know, there’s a spark, there’s some smoke, a lot of smoke, and there’s going to. And there’s a fire. And we’ll have to see how this goes. My, My question is, Joe, okay, let’s say they get banned for a year and then they come back or they’re cleared, you know, of their investigation. How are they accepted back in that clubhouse? Who is, you know, do they get the full support of their teammates or are their teammates going to be. Every time they. They make a bad Play or throw a wild pitch or give up a home run. Are they going to be questioning that? I mean, I, you know, that’s human nature, I think.
Joe Noga: Yeah, I think trust is, is the biggest thing that you can have in that, in that clubhouse in that situation. And these guys absolutely broke their teammates trust. It would be interesting to me to hear what Jose Ramirez would say off the record, candidly, about, you know, his countrymen, his. His guys who he knows. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen him interacting with Luis Ortiz and with Emmanuel Classe in the clubhouse when sort of their guard is down. Obviously it’s in Spanish, so I don’t know what they’re saying, but in those situations, you know, these guys are close and this is just a. Could be a devastating blow for these guys. Now, how that translates to performance out on the field in terms of can this team, you know, pick itself up off the mat once again? Again and again. You know, this team has been dealt so many different sort of gut punches over the last several years, whether it’s injuries or health or, you know, just facing insurmountable odds against, you know, teams with 300, you know, $700 million payrolls in the postseason. I look at this and I wonder. We talked to Slade Saccony after tonight’s game, and he said, this team, you know, that’s what they do. They bounce back. But I kind of tend to agree with you in terms of playoff chances this year. I don’t know if there’s any recovering from this.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. And if you’re the front office, how apt are you to buy in, Joe? How, how apt are you to help this team to go out and get a hitter, to go out and get a right fielder, to go out and add to this offense or add to this pitching staff or add to the bullpen? I mean, you know, I don’t know. I mean, we saw a little bit of a run before the break. Then they carried it out through the, you know, coming out of the break against Oakland and Baltimore played very well. They go to Kansas city and lose two out of three, and tonight they lose to the, you know, a 27 win team in the Rockies. You know, it was a good game. Obviously they came back, they. They took the lead, but, you know, with. Didn’t have, they didn’t have Emmanuel Class A to close the door. They had to turn to Cade Smith. And, you know, Cade, I think, was, you know, obviously the game sped up on him. He, you know, he’s closed before, but he’s not the closer.
Joe Noga: Yeah, it was, you know, let’s get into breaking down a little bit of the game and we can talk about, you know, when they arrived at the point where you would naturally have seen Emmanuel Clase come into the game and you would think at that point things would be all over. But it was Cade Smith and I think everybody’s sort of eyes were on him. And it’s not that Cade Smith can’t handle the pressure. We’ve seen it before. We’ve seen him rise to the occasion before. Early in the season he saved three games in a, in a four day stretch against the, the Yankees and the Red Sox when Emmanuel Class A was sort of unavailable in that role or, or not being used in the closers role for whatever reason. And so we know that he can do that and get those outs in the ninth inning. But this was the case. Bo Nailer’s three run home run ties the game in the seventh inning. And the Guardians take the lead after that with bases loaded, walk by Carlos Santana, line drive RBI single by Daniel Schneemann with the bases loaded and you’re thinking they’re in good shape to turn the game over to Cade Smith. But Hunter Gattis gives up a long home run in the eighth inning. You know, the deficits won as they go to the ninth and, and Smith gives up the, the leadoff double. And you know, Stephen Vogt talked about that being a mistake pitch to warming Bernabel, a rookie who you know is, is having a pretty hot start to his major league career.
Paul Hoynes: I see what you did there, Joe.
Joe Noga: Yeah, you see what I did there. I’m sorry about that. Warming Bernabelle two for five with a double and a home run, an rbi. This guy, I think when he stepped to the plate in the ninth inning, his op, his career OPS was 1400. Basically all of his hits had been extra base hits including the, the two home runs. But he hits a ball that gets lodged in the, the left field wall for a ground rule double. And then the, the bunt attempt, the sacrifice bunt attempt I believe Brenton Doyle and Kate Smith throws wide of first base. It’s, you know, the circus sort of showed up and, and you could tell that Kate Smith was sort of feeling the pressure there.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. And you know, I think, you know those three saves early in the season he looked great, but he also was pitching with the knowledge that Class A is going to come back. This is going to be his job. I’m going to, you know, I’ll pretty soon I’ll Be back in the eighth or seventh or eighth inning where, where I’m, where I’m used to pitching. And tonight he was the guy. He was the man. And it takes a while to do this. Joe, this is a tough. Everyone thinks you can, you can have, anybody can pitch the ninth inning. That’s, that’s a, that’s a fallacy. You know, baseball people will tell you that anybody can, you know, there’s some baseball people that will swear to God that anyone can pitch the ninth inning. It’s all about analytics, but it isn’t. You’ve, we’ve seen great guy, great pitchers with great arms that can’t, they can’t go near the ninth inning. And so this is, you know, the good thing is Smith has done it before. I think he’ll adapt to it and I think he’ll have success there. But when, but when vote said he’s going to go closer by committee, I cringe. Joe, that never works.
Joe Noga: Yeah, if you, if you’re telling me that you have a closer by committee, you’re, you’re telling me you don’t have, you don’t have anybody who can, that you really trust to give that ball to at the moment, you know, and I think Kate Smith is obviously the guy that they want to be in that role. But like you said, I think every closer, you know, coming up is, has to go through something like this to get to the good stuff, to get to the point where, you know, he settles in and he knows, you know, what he’s capable of. And I think the ceiling is very high for Cade Smith. We know what he’s capable of. We’ve seen it at the highest levels. It’s just a matter of now making that adjustment and moving forward. I have no doubt in talking to him pregame, you know, he said, my job’s to go out there and get three outs. My job’s to put up a zero in whatever inning they tell me to pitch in. And it’s almost like I get a little, a little sense of Corey Kluber out of him. Just a little too stiff and robotic. I think if he sort of loosens things up and lets himself sort of feel the feelings. I don’t know if that’s part of his mechanism there. I was there, I saw the guy take 106 mile an hour line drive off the 18 of an inch plastic bill of his cap. His life could have ended at that point. And he gets up and strikes out. The next guy, he faces no doubt in my mind that he has the ability to go out there in any ninth inning and shut things down. He just didn’t get it done tonight.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, and that’s a good way of putting it. You have to, you know, you have to, you have to be convinced you are the guy and then you have to prove to yourself you are the guy. And you know, Cade Smith has the stuff. He’s got the arm, he’s, you know, he’s got the body. I think he’ll be fine, Joe, but he’s going to have to, you know, there’s going to be some growing pains. There’s, you know, the, and the thing I like about him, I don’t think he worries about yesterday. I think he turns the page pretty quickly. At least he seems that kind of guy. And you’ve got to, you’ve got to be able to do that as a closer.
Joe Noga: Yeah, well, Kate Smith looks a lot like Clark Kent. I’m sure it was the scene where Superman gets, gets angry and burns down the Fortress of Solitude when he got back to the clubhouse because he was not happy. I have it on pretty good information that Smith was not a happy camper when he got back to the clubhouse following the game. What’s this mean going forward now for this club? You know, beyond the Class A news, beyond losing the first of a three game series against the worst team in baseball, this is still a team that by the end of the week could, you know, claw its way back into, you know, shouting distance of the third wild card spot. But does, does this mean that, you know, we could be having a whole other conversation about a Stephen Kwan trade at this point? Does losing your trade chip in Emmanuel Class A make you turn your attention to Stephen Kwon? Shane Bieber? Does Thursday’s trade deadline change now because you don’t have maybe all the bullets in your gun?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, Bieber’s throwing a, scheduled to throw what, a four inning rehab game for Akron tomorrow. We’ll have to see how that goes. But yeah, I mean, I, I don’t know if they would make a big move like that, like a Quan trade. I don’t see that happening. But, but who knows right now? I think, you know, the way that this thing is, the way this week has started, I think they’re going to take a conservative approach, you know, kind of pulling their horns a little bit and maybe, maybe, you know, kind of like they usually do, you know, play defense, play offense and try to, you know, kind of thread the needle on.
Joe Noga: This thing so Horns is predicting a quiet trade deadline on Thursday.
Paul Hoynes: I feel strongly both ways, Joe.
Joe Noga: Oh, my goodness. I would, I would be in favor of a quiet trade deadline. I think, you know, it being an off day for the Guardians on Thursday too, might, might ease things a little again. You’re looking at, you know, potentially this team feeling a whole lot different, you know, by, by the start of Friday morning. Carlos Santana, two hits today, gets on base three times, drives in a run. Had a little bit of a scare with a play near home plate where it looked like he might have tweaked an ankle at some point. And we all sort of turned to each other in the press box thinking, well, if they were thinking about trading Carlos Santana, that might have been a very untimely injury as well. But he came through. But we all know that Carlos Santana doesn’t want to go anywhere come Thursday afternoon.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think Carlos would like to stay here if at all possible. You know, he’s been through this before. Three different times he’s been traded at the deadline. In fact, he came here and I believe in, you know, he came here from the Dodgers in a deadline deal for Casey Blake about a thousand years ago. So, you know, that’s something to watch. You know, I wonder what other teams think of Carlos. You know, he’s. He hasn’t had the best start in the second half. Maybe starting to come around a little bit. Still playing really good defense. So, you know, that’s what’s one thing. But what are you going to get for Carlos, Joe? What, what, what, how’s that going to.
Joe Noga: Make you better at this point? It might be addition by subtraction. Just allowing a guy like CJ Kaifus to come up if, if that’s the play they make. Hey, before we get going, you got to mention former Guardians second round draft pick and, you know, former, you know, top prospect Tyler Freeman coming through with three big RBIs against his former team his first game back here at Progressive Field. Gotta feel good for Tyler Freeman, who was traded away at the end of spring training for Nolan Jones. Freeman comes in hitting about.312 while Nolan Jones about.100. Batting average points south of that. That, that, that looks like another tough trade for the Guardians in that regard.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I talked to Tyler after the game, Joe. He was loving life, man. He says he still loves the Guardians. Everything about the organization. He said he’s still trying to get over the trade, but he goes, this was a revenge game for me and, you know, I’m happy with the way it worked out and but, you know, he spent a lot of time talking to David Fry and Quan and a bunch of the other players and coaches before the game. I think his heart is still in Cleveland, Joe.
Joe Noga: Yeah, well, he left it all out there today, and it was not the result that the Guardians had hoped for in the opening game. The beginning opportunity for the Cade Smith Closer era here in Cleveland. We will be back to talk more on Wednesday’s podcast after game two of this series. Hoy. We’ll check in with you then.
Paul Hoynes: Hey, Joe.
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