CLEVELAND, Ohio — Four consecutive Gold Gloves Awards in four MLB seasons isn’t enough to win baseball’s ultimate defensive honor? That’s the head-scratching reality facing Guardians outfielder Steven Kwan after Bobby Witt Jr. captured the American League Platinum Glove Award.

On the latest Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast, beat reporters Paul Hoynes and Joe Noga didn’t mince words about the snub, expressing disbelief that Kwan’s defensive brilliance wasn’t enough to secure the league’s top defensive honor.

“I thought Kwan deserved it,” Hoynes stated plainly. “He’s been in the league four years, he’s won four straight Gold Gloves. We know what he can do in left field. Great in defensive runs saved, great in assists.”

While both hosts acknowledged Witt’s excellence, they struggled to understand how voters could overlook Kwan’s perfect record of winning a Gold Glove Award in every season of his major league career – a remarkable achievement that speaks to his consistent defensive dominance.

“I just think four straight Gold Gloves is hard to overlook,” Hoynes continued. “Hopefully Kwan gets a chance somewhere down the road to win that ultimate defensive prize.”

What makes Kwan’s defensive excellence even more impressive is the behind-the-scenes work ethic that fuels it. As Noga pointed out, Kwan’s preparation goes far beyond what fans see during games.

“We’ve seen him, not just put in the work on game days, he’s out there before games, working in the outfield with J.T. Maguire on the road, at home,” Noga explained. “Just tremendous work ethic. And that’s the kind of thing that gets you those top echelon awards like the Platinum Glove.”

The podcast discussion highlighted an interesting contrast between the two players. While Kwan has been a defensive stalwart from day one in the majors, Witt’s defensive prowess is a more recent development.

“Witt, obviously a guy who put in a lot of work on his own in his own right to sort of elevate his defensive game,” Noga acknowledged. “It’s not something he was necessarily known for early on in his career. And now he’s as good as they come defensively at shortstop.”

The Platinum Glove Award, determined by a combination of fan voting and the SABR Defensive Index, often favors players at premium defensive positions like shortstop and center field. This could partially explain why Witt, despite winning his first Gold Glove, edged out Kwan for the AL’s top defensive honor.

Still, the podcast discussion underscores a sentiment shared by many Cleveland fans: if four consecutive Gold Gloves isn’t enough to win a Platinum Glove, what exactly would it take?

For Kwan, the focus now shifts to extending his Gold Glove streak to five consecutive seasons in 2025, while continuing to build his case as not just the best left fielder in baseball, but potentially the best overall defender in the American League – a title that many in Cleveland already believe he’s earned.

Podcast transcript

Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes. Hoynsie, Major League Baseball announced yesterday that they come to an agreement with their sportsbook partners such as FanDuel, DraftKings and a variety of others to limit or put a cap on the amounts that can be placed wagers that can be placed on prop bets similar to the ones that were involved in the Luis Ortiz and Emmanuel Clase pitch fixing, alleged pitch fixing scheme that has both of those players under indictment right now by federal prosecutors in New York. The move is, seems like it’s a reactionary move after the fact to sort of limit the influence that a player can have on that kind of betting. They cap each prop bet at $200 maximum and it can’t be included in any sort of parlays which are, you know, multiple leg bets that, that can be placed. Just, you know, your reaction when you heard that Major League Baseball sort of the day after two of its players were indicted and facing 65 years in prison, each came out with, with these measures and this agreement with their sports betting partners.

Paul Hoynes: Well, for Ortiz in Class A, it’s a little too, little too late, Joe. And for the reputation of the guardians in Major League Baseball, it’s the same. I mean, they had the, their, their hand forced to do this, which is a shame. I’m surprised they just didn’t, you know, outlaw prop bets altogether because it’s nothing but an invitation for wrongdoing and for mischief. As we saw, you know, with allegedly what Ortiz and, and Class A, you know, took part in. And on Class A’s part, it’s, you know, allegedly been going on since 2023. You know, I’m glad they woke up. You know, props to a Governor Mike DeWine for giving the impetus of this. But this should have been done a.

Joe Noga: While ago, Joe, as soon as sports betting was, was legalized in, in Ohio and really dating Back to what, 2018 when it was legalized by the federal government, you know, that this was a road that we were eventually going to get down where players, officials, teams would be compromised in this way. And just so happens that these, these two Cleveland pitchers are the, the, the biggest sort of most prominent example of this. And now you’re, you’re right, Major League Baseball was forced, its hand was forced to do this. If, if this investigation hadn’t taken place, I don’t think these, these sort of limits or these sort of controls would have been talked about or put in place. So it, it really does seem sort of like almost like a hollow gesture. But do you think it’s going to be effective in sort of stopping or limiting players from getting involved in sort of schemes like this in the future?

Paul Hoynes: I think it will joke. I think it definitely will cut off the use of prop bets, the illegal use of prop bets. But when human nature and greed are involved and you have a, you know what a casino in your pocket with your cell phone, people are going to find ways to skirt the issue to take advantage of any crack. There is the lesson that, that, that has, you know, been forced upon Ortiz and class A is, is a warning sign to anybody else that is stupid enough to do this that eventually you’re going to get caught, you can’t get around it and you’re going to pay a dear price because of it.

Joe Noga: And their cost and risk analysis, you know, benefit in any player’s mind. It doesn’t make any sense. You’re talking about major league players who were making a minimum salary of north of $700,000 a year and in class A case had a contract worth, you know, at its maximum, $20 million. He leaves future earnings on the table that, that could have, you know, been twice as much as that. It doesn’t make sense to that they were making these bets or putting themselves at risk for, you know, $5,000 at a time, $7,000 at a time when, when their potential for earnings just by doing their job and, and staying away from gambling had, you know, benefited them even more exponentially by, by limiting these bets to, you know, 200 at a time. You would have to, you know, put together a, a wide reaching criminal enterprise that involved a lot more people making those bets in order to see any sort of profit that comes anything close.

Paul Hoynes: Joe, definitely. And just think of what class A accomplished in his short career. I mean a three time all star. He’s collecting a bonus for every time he gets there. He get, he gets what? He’s in the playoffs at least twice, right? He’s got playoff shares there. He wins. He gets a bonus for being the Mariano Rivera American League reliever of the year in consecutive years. Okay? He signed an undervalued deal, okay? Everybody gets that. But he’s collect. He is ringing the bill on just about every bonus or, you know, every bonus in his contract and it still wasn’t enough, you know, allegedly. So, you know, you know, sometimes, you know, it just, it’s unfathomable to me. It, I don’t understand it. But you know, everybody’s different and everybody’s driven by different things. And you know, obviously Ortiz in Class A, we’re on a different level here.

Joe Noga: Yeah. And it’s the idea that they thought they could get away with it and that the monitors and the controls that were in place already wouldn’t catch them doing this. And you know, we saw with the investigative power of the Eastern District of New York just how detailed and how much the evidence just piles up. It’s overwhelming at this point. And you would expect that a conviction or a plea in this case in one way or another should be coming relatively soon. So, yeah, that’s the latest development on the Ortiz and Class A gambling scandal. We’ll keep an eye on that and keep an eye on reaction from the league as we move forward here. Let’s get into some, some more news or some more baseball news, I guess more baseball related news regarding the Guardians. A couple days ago, the Guardians announced they had resigned Roberto Hernandez, right hander, 28 years old, who they acquired or you know, they brought in last season. He had pitched with Philadelphia and Detroit before, making a few appearances. He was 10 with a 6.23 ERA at the major league level, 41 appearances. And last season, I’m sorry, you know, 150 games total with the Royals between 2020 and 2024. So they’re very familiar with Hernandez. They’ve outrated him to or not. I’m sorry. They signed minor league contract and have invited him to spring training, major league camp. So he’ll be there in, you know, in Arizona competing for a spot in the bullpen. Just this is a depth. Move. Adding a veteran in Hernandez, a guy that they, they kind of liked.

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe, he’s a big guy, throws hard. You know, he throw. He tops out at around 98 miles an hour, sits at 94. We saw him for five appearances last season. At the end of the season, didn’t pitch very well. But he had kind of bounced around last year from Philly to Detroit and then ended up with Cleveland. And you know, you look at that Cleveland bullpen Joe, and they’re going to need some depth. You know, this guy, you know, his pitch, four or five years in the big leagues, mostly with Kansas City, you know, and if you, you know, they, they let Allard go, Junis is a free agent, they lose Class A. So, you know, they’re going to have to fill some spots, build some depth in that, as you said. I think that’s what Hernandez’s job will be. Yeah.

Joe Noga: And again, like you said, it never hurts to maybe stockpile or stash Some of those veteran guys, you know, they, they had Vince Velasquez down at AAA all last year. A guy who, you know, they, they sort of like an insurance policy in case they needed somebody quickly a veteran guy who could step in and fill a role for them. Speaking of veteran guys, guy that Cleveland fans are very familiar with, Carlos Carrasco. He’s re signed minor league deal and he’s go be in camp again trying to keep his career going in I believe in Atlanta for Carrasco where he ended up at the end of last season.

Paul Hoynes: Carlos, he’s hanging on. Man 39. What he made the Yankees opening day roster last year because of some injuries. He’s bounced around a little bit. Still looking for a, you know, he still wants to pitch. Actually Joe, I mean remember we talked to him and he said when he played with Verlander and, and Scherzer in, in, in the Mets, they convinced him that he could still pitch into his 40s. And Carlos is giving, giving it a run, God bless him. I, I hope he finds some success with the Braves pitch. He was up and down with them last year. I hope he, you know, he kind of finds a niche for himself maybe in the pen and then everybody’s always looking for that emergency starter and I think that’s the role, you know, Carlos is filling right now.

Joe Noga: Yeah, 2 and 2 with a 7.09 ERA, 34 strikeouts in 40, 45⅓ innings for Carrasco last year. But again, I don’t think the numbers are really all that important. He’s a guy who goes out there and can give you innings and you know, still has the ability to strike people out. Good veteran presence and as we all know, just a great guy to have around in a clubhouse and be around, you know, certainly a good influence on his teammates there too. So best of luck to Carlos. Trying to make the, the club out of spring training. Changing our focus now to the, the awards season wanted to talk about. Over the week the Gold Glove awards were handed out and the Platinum Gloves were awarded. Stephen Kwan, certainly a four time Gold Glove winner, was under consideration for the Platinum Glove in the American League. However, that award went to Bobby Witt Jr. Who won his first Gold Glove at shortstop. Witt picks up the Platinum Glove as the overall best defender in the American League. What was your reaction when you, you heard that they, they picked Witt over Stephen Kwan for that Platinum Glove?

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I thought, you know, Quon deserved it. Joe. He’s, you know, he’s been in the league four years, he’s Won four straight Gold Gloves. We know what he can do in left field. You know, great in the defensive run, saved, great in assists, you know, and, but I’ve got no, no complaints against Bobby Witt Jr love to watch him play. You know, he’s an action player, He’s a two way guy. He really drives at Royals offense. But I, I just think four straight Gold Gloves is hard to overlook. Hopefully quantity gets a chance somewhere down the road to win that ultimate defensive prize.

Joe Noga: Yeah, it’s certainly an award that he’s worthy of. We’ve seen him, you know, not just put in the work, you know, on game days, he’s, he’s out there before games, working in the outfield with J.T. mcGuire on the road at home. Just tremendous work ethic. And that’s the kind of thing that gets you those, those top echelon awards like the Platinum Glove. I thought for sure he had a better chance this year than, than maybe last year of, of getting it. But you know, Wit, obviously a guy who put in a lot of work on his own in his own right to, you know, sort of elevate his defensive game. It’s not something he was necessarily known for early on in his career. And now he’s, he’s as, as good as they come defensively at shortstop. So tonight, last night, the American League and National League Rookies Year Award, Rookie of the Year, of the Year award were announced. Obviously Nick Kurtz, the slugger from Oakland, unanimous decision in, in the American League. We talked about him on a previous podcast and just what he was able to do at 22 years old. Drake Baldwin, catcher from Atlanta. It’s the National League award and really I think in both cases it was, you know, it was pretty much slam dunk for the, the winners there. Just, you know, what’d you think about Kurt’s winning the, the award in the, the American League as the guy that we saw the most this season?

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe, I mean that was a slam dunk like you said, unanimous choice. I mean this guy’s a monster. What did he hit? 36 home runs or some number like that. I mean, as a rookie, you know, you know, a real rookie first year up in the big leagues. He was drafted in 2024. Just a dominant, dominant hitter. I had no idea how big that guy is either, Joe. He’s a huge first baseman and what the one game he had, how many, what he hit four home runs.

Joe Noga: Four home runs against Houston. He’s 6, 5, 2, 40. And he was flicking balls into the Crawford boxes. In Houston like they were nothing. Yeah, he ends, ends the season. 36 home runs, 86 RBIs. It’s 290 in 420 at bats with a 173 OPS plus. Just a tremendous rookie season for the 22 year old.

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, and boy, that, that, that, that A’s team is just loaded offensively. What the third place winner in was, was the shortstop, Wilson.

Joe Noga: Yep, Wilson.

Paul Hoynes: Yeah. So. And they’ve got, they’ve got some big time power. If they can get some pitching to go along with that, they’re going to be a dangerous team because I remember when the Guardians were out there in Sacramento this last season and that’s a lineup that, you know, scares a pitcher to death. So great lineup. And Kurtz, I mean, you couldn’t do much more as a rookie. And it’s going to be fun to watch his career and where he goes from here. Because Joe, I don’t know, I guess it’s. You can only go up. But that’s, that’s a hell of a stepping stone after that rookie year. What do you do for an encore?

Joe Noga: Yeah, I know it’s. You’re going to be a lot, A lot’s going to be expected of him in that Athletics lineup. And you know, he continues to play in a minor league ballpark the next year or so. It’s going to be more of the same, more of the same numbers for him there with the, with the A’s. Drake Baldwin.274 batting average, 80 RBIs and 126 OPS plus. This is a guy who, you know, came up and really staked his claim to that catching position in Atlanta. And you know, he beats out Cade Horton of the Cubs, Caleb Durbin of the Brewers. So just a tremendous rookie season for Drake Baldwin. But tonight the Manager of the Year awards are going to be announced. American and National League. It might just be a matter of copy and paste with last year’s two winners. Stephen Vogt, a finalist again in the American League, and Pat Murphy, a finalist in the National League. Both of those guys very familiar with each other and very familiar with winning the American League Manager of the Year award. They both did so last year. This could be an unusual back to back for both guys.

Paul Hoynes: Exciting night for Stephen, Stephen Vogt and Murph. Just. It’s going to be fun to watch how this unfolds. And I think they both got a great chance to win. Joe Vogt, obviously they overcame a lot lot. The Guardians, he, this, you know, he, this would be, he the only only manager in Cleveland history to win manager of the year awards in his first two seasons just has had really he’s hit the ground running and he’s never looked back. Murphy has has taken over the brewers had the best record in the big leagues last year and really they kind of and to play really similar similar baseball, Joe, they don’t, they don’t hit a lot of home runs. They play the game right. They steal bases, they work the count. They, they make contact. So just two, two really good really good managers. And it’s going to be interesting to see what the final vote is.

Joe Noga: Yeah. Even vote. The only Cleveland skipper to to reach the postseason in his his first two seasons as a manager and his 180 wins. Only Al Lopez with 186 and Charlie Manual with 181 had had more wins in their first two seasons as managers for, for Cleveland. And you know, we’ve, we’ve been over all of the, the details of the the comeback and the September record. Fifteen and a half games back behind Detroit and overtaking the Tigers to win the division. Based on that alone. The, the, his, the historic nature of that, you got to give him strong consideration. I think he’s got a really. So we’ll we’ll see if we’re, we’re talking about Stephen Vogt again tomorrow on tomorrow’s show, Hoinsey. That’s going to wrap up today’s edition of the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. We’ll check back in with you tomorrow and hopefully we’ll have something to say about Stephen Vogt and the manager of the year.

Paul Hoynes: Good deal, Joe.

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