CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Guardians find themselves in uncharted territory as star closer Emmanuel Clase and starter Luis Ortiz face serious federal gambling charges. The financial and roster implications could be enormous for the organization, as cleveland.com beat writers Paul Hoynes and Joe Noga discussed on Thursday’s Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast.
Both players have now appeared in federal court, with Ortiz pleading not guilty on Wednesday in Brooklyn, while Clase was scheduled to appear Thursday. According to Hoynes, Clase’s appearance signals a significant development.
“Clase, I was told, will be in court today for his arraignment. We’ll have to see if that’s true because from all indications, he was in the Dominican Republic a couple days ago,” Hoynes reported. “If this is true, then he’s given himself up. He’s turned himself over to the authorities.”
The legal proceedings represent just the first phase of what could be a lengthy process affecting both players and the organization. Clase and Ortiz are currently on MLB’s restricted list, meaning they aren’t being paid and don’t count against Cleveland’s 40-man roster. But the longer-term financial implications could be substantial, particularly regarding Clase’s contract.
“According to sources, if they are found in violation of MLB rules on gambling by commissioner Rob Manfred, Cleveland will not be liable for any part of their contracts,” Hoynes explained. “With Clase, that’s a lot of money from a Cleveland point of view. He’s scheduled to be guaranteed $6 million in 2026 with club options in 2027, 2028 that come with a total $4 million buyout.”
The timing of the case presents strategic considerations for the Guardians front office. As Noga pointed out, a quick resolution would benefit the organization tremendously.
“Ideally, getting the, the federal case wrapped up as quickly as possible would be the best situation for Cleveland so that they know where they stand in terms of what they owe each player, and particularly Clase with the remainder of his contract,” Noga said.
While the players navigate their legal challenges, the Guardians must continue baseball operations, including preparing for the upcoming Rule 5 draft in December. The situation has created an unusual scenario where Cleveland could potentially free up significant payroll flexibility depending on the outcome of both the federal case and MLB’s subsequent investigation.
For now, both players remain in legal limbo. Ortiz has surrendered his passport and been released on $500,000 bond, with Clase expected to follow. The next steps will involve preliminary hearings and potential plea discussions, all while MLB conducts its own parallel investigation into potential gambling violations.
For Cleveland, a franchise that operates with strict financial constraints, the potential voiding of Clase’s contract in particular could represent a significant windfall that might allow them to redirect resources elsewhere. However, it would also mean losing one of baseball’s elite closers and creating another hole to fill on a team with championship aspirations.
As the legal proceedings unfold, Guardians fans are left to wonder not only about the fates of two prominent players but also about how the organization will navigate the financial implications of this unprecedented situation.
Podcast transcript
Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes Hoynse. The latest developments in the Emmanuel Classe Luis Ortiz gambling investigation. Ortiz pleaded not guilty in federal court on Wednesday and he appeared there in Brooklyn. Emmanuel Colosse scheduled to appear on Thursday and enter his plea. Kind of a surprise. Classe will be there in person to enter his plea. What’d you find out from the folks at the Eastern District in New York, Joe?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Class A, I was told we’ll be in court today for his arraignment. We’ll have to see if that’s true because, you know, from all indications, he was in the Dominican Republic a couple days ago. So if this is true, then, I mean, I guess he’s given himself up. He’s turned himself over to the authorities. And we’ll, and we’ll go into court today. He’ll hear the charges read against him and bail will be set. As, as with Ortiz, you know, he was he released on a $500,000 bond. I would imagine the same thing or around the same thing would happen with Class A.
Joe Noga: Right. And they would be ordered to, to stay either in New York, Boston or Ohio, somewhere relatively close and accessible as. As Ortiz was. You know, it just. If they’re facing a trial or as they said, they, they want their day in court. Is this something like could, could very easily, you know, be. Be facing a lengthy prison sentence depending on any sort of plea. This is kind of a risk for them, I would think, just to, to even be in the country right now rather than back home in the Dominican Republic.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. You know, Ortiz, obviously it doesn’t sound like Ortiz. You know, Ortiz was apprehended in, in Boston on Sunday at Logan Airport. So I’m not sure where he was going when the FBI arrested him. But, you know, he went to court Monday in Boston and was back in court yesterday in, in Brooklyn. So I would think he’s released on his own recognizance. They, he had to surrender his passport and I’m sure Class A will have to do the same. I, you know, they must be, they may, you know, they were both represented by attorneys, so they must be get their legal advice. You know, must, must be saying you’ve got to, you know, come to court and face these charges. Not, you know, I guess if you would stay in, you know, a foreign country or in the Dominican, maybe you’ll make it look at, look like, it may look like you really do have something to hide or that you’re guilty.
Joe Noga: As far as the guardians are concerned, you know, a quick resolution, some sort of resolution in court would be ideal for the club. If Class A and Ortiz both fight the charges rather than enter some sort of plea, you’re looking at maybe a more lengthy process. But the idea that, that having the legal side of this wrapped up before Major League Baseball can enter their findings and deal with any sort of contract situation moving forward. Ideally, getting the, the federal case wrapped up as quickly as possible would be the best situation for Cleveland so that they know where they stand in terms of what they owe each player and particularly Class A with the remainder of his contract.
Paul Hoynes: Yes, they’re both on a restricted list right now, Joe. They’re no longer getting paid and they will, you know, they don’t count on 40 man roster. You know, in some cases players like that on a restricted list can be traded but there’s, you know, these two cannot be traded. So you know, right now you can, it’s business as usual for Cleveland. They can, you know, you know, add to the to 40 man roster in preparation for the Rule 5. So that doesn’t come into play with, with Class A and Ortiz and you know, the Rule 5 will be in December at the winter meetings. So that’s coming right up. And I think Tuesday they have to finalize their 40 man roster. These guys don’t come into play in that regard. But eventually, Joe, they’re going to have to do something with these two guys. You know, the from according to sources, if they are found in violation of MLB rules on gambling by, you know, commissioner Rob Manfred, they will Cleveland will not be liable for any part of their contracts. And with Class A, that, that’s a lot of money from a Cleveland point of view. He’s scheduled to be guaranteed $6 million in 2024. I mean 2026, you know, club options 2027, 2028 come with a total of $4 million buyout. So you know, that’s, that’s significant money for Cleveland and they’re going to that, that will, you know, that could help them bolster the 2026 team. But we have to see how this all works out before that happens, right?
Joe Noga: Yeah. As we move forward, we’ll keep an eye on any further developments out of the the court case against both Class A and Ortiz. All right. The Cy Young Award was were siong awards in the American and National League were announced on Wednesday night. Tarik Skubal from the Detroit Tigers, very familiar to the Guardians and their fans. He, he won his second consecutive Award in the American League. Paul Skeens, the rookie or I’m sorry, the, the former number one overall draft pick out of lsu. He won the National League Cy Young Award. Just your thoughts on Tarek school becoming the 12th American League pitcher to win multiple Cy Young Awards. This time back to back and Skeen’s winning his first and it doesn’t sound like his last.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, two really good young pitchers, young starting pitchers. Joe. I think, you know, from a starting pitching standpoint, MLB’s future is in good hands with these two. And even the, you know, the, the second place and the third place finishers in both the National League and American League, just quality starting pitchers right there. Skub, Joe. Ninth round draft pick. How about that ninth round pick? Consecutive Cy Youngs. Only 12 other pitchers have one consecutive Cy Youngs. Guys like Koufax, McClain, Palmer, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez are among that list. And Skeens is a guy that, you know. He was Rookie of the Year last year, Cy Young winner this year. He started two straight National League All Star Games in his first two years in the big leagues. The only two guys that have been the Rookie of the Year and a Cy Young winner in their first two years in, in, in baseball were Fernando Valenzuela who won him, won it in the, won both in the same year, and Doc Gooden. And he’s in pretty good company right there.
Joe Noga: Yeah, Garrett Cole was a, a pitcher that was a, a first round draft pick of the Pirates. Uh, you know, obviously he went on to a lot of success, but never won a Cy Young Award with the Pirates. He joins Vernon Law in 1960 and Doug Drabik in 1990 as the only Pittsburgh pitchers to win National League Cy Young awards. He was 10 and 10, but I think his, his ERA was something like 1.86. An outstanding season. It was impossible to score runs for him, score runs off of him, but his, his team didn’t really score a lot of runs for him. So it was remarkable award for Skeens. And his, his trajectory is, you know, pointed sky high. He’s got a lot of, you know, momentum. He’s the face of baseball when you come to talk about young pitching right now. But when you talk about the best pitcher sort of in baseball over the last two seasons, it’s definitely been Skubal. He’s been the most dominant and you know, the Guardians got a taste of that in September and into October when, when they faced him, they managed to, to beat him two out of the three times they faced him. But the third time, unfortunately for Cleveland, was 14 strikeout performance in Game 1 of the AL Wild Card Series. And it led to the Guardians or the Tigers actually beating Cleveland and advancing in the postseason. So school is, you know, the big name right now on the trade market. You’re talking about a guy who’s won back to back Cy Youngs. He’s in his final year before free agency. And the Tigers are considering the unthinkable, trading the best pitcher in baseball. Do you think that’s going to happen?
Paul Hoynes: I think they, I do not think that’s going to happen, Joe. I think that would be a terrible, terrible mistake by the Tigers. The Ilitch family has loads of money. They can, they can pay this guy. You know, I think what is Scott Boros’s agent, I think Boros might be. So that, that could make it difficult, but the only, the way you deal with Boros, you just give him everything he wants and then, you know, he’ll, he’ll, you can sign school, but yeah, it’s going to be if I’m the Tigers, you’re just crawling out of what, you know, years of mediocrity. You’re, you know, you, you made the playoffs last year, two years ago, you made them again this year. You’re on the rise. And, you know, Skubal is an interesting guy to me, Joe. You know, everyone says, you know, a baseball team needs leaders and they usually point to the everyday player as being a leader because they’re out there every day. Starting pitchers especially only go four or five days. You know, they’re on the mound. But Skubal is a leader too. He’s not only your best pitcher, you know, you’re one of your best athletes, but he’s a leader on that team, too. I think he really sets the momentum on that team. We’ve seen him on the mound. How he lifts that team. To trade him now I think would be a serious mistake.
Joe Noga: Yeah, it might be, it might set you back in the, in all the progress you’ve made in Building under A.J. hinch as your manager over these last several years. So, yeah, I, I, I agree with you. I think it would be the wrong move, but I don’t think it’s a move that, that they’re, they’re not considering. You’ve got to consider all offers. If, if the Mets or somebody comes along and, and offers you the sun, moon and stars in terms of prospects and, and major league players, then you’ve got to consider it. But again, yeah, right. The message that you send maybe to that clubhouse if if you do trade school is not the the greatest one. All right, you want to jump into some hey Hoinsies, it’s that time of week again. We’ve got some questions from our listeners and our readers here submitted via subtext. You can be part of this if you join our Guardian subtext group. It’s gotocleveland.com subtext Join for 399amonth to subscribe and you can submit questions for Hoinse and for me and and we talk back and forth and give us your opinions on a variety of Guardians related topics. Hey Hoinsey, this one comes from John Kyle in Westfield Center. Is Stephen Vogt the first MLB manager to win manager of the year in their first two years? Thanks. That’s from John Kyle in Westfield Center. I believe. John yeah, that that is true. He is the the first major league manager rookie manager to win back to back his first two years and I, I pretty sure that that’s the the case. It’s, he’s got to be thinking this is, this managing gig is pretty easy, huh?
Paul Hoynes: And he’s also the first Cleveland manager to lead his team to the postseason in his first two years. So he’s, he’s on a roll right now. Hopefully that role continues. For vote and the Guardians.
Joe Noga: This is from Andy Mees in Sandusky. Hey Hoinsey, the Guardians hierarchy clearly aced their replacement of Terry Francona in the form of now two time Manager of the Year Stephen Vogt. When searching for Tito’s heir apparent in the 2023 season, what were some of the things in which votes stood out above all other coaching cand.
Paul Hoynes: You know Joe, I think we talked to a vote about this. You know, three won the award on what was that? Tuesday Tuesday night. And you know, I think what what the thing that stands out to me is that, you know, one, he wasn’t, he wasn’t that far removed from being a player. I think he, you know, he’s, he’s only 39. He, he relates to players today and he relates to as, as Frank Conant did. He relates to, you know, every player on, on the roster, you know, the stars and, and the 25th and 26th guys. He’s been an All Star. He’s been a guy that, you know, labored in the minors that got sent down. He’s been a guy that’s dealt with injuries. So he has, he, he brings that spectrum of experience to a team. I also think, you know, he’s as we’ve seen Joe, this is A stubborn guy. This is a guy that, that only sees, you know, it might be raining, it might be snowing, but he only sees sunshine every day. He only thinks, you know, the good thoughts. You know, when his team was going through that 10 game losing streak, you know, every day, he said, we’re close, we’re close. You know, this is still a good team. We’ve got one of the best teams in baseball and we’re all sitting there listening to that and our eyes are rolling in the back of our heads. I said, what team is this guy watching? But you know, he believed and I think that belief carries over to the locker room. I mean, think, you know, he’s willing to learn. I mean a lot of times managers in this day and age, they are hired with no experience or experience isn’t a key factor because the front office can, can, you know, control them a little bit. But I think Volt came into this job knowing that, knowing what he didn’t know and his mind. He had an open mind to suggestions from the front office and I don’t think they control him, but he’s definitely willing to learn and willing to listen. And this is, this is a smart group. This is a group that gets the most out of their dollar every year in and year out. So, you know, he is wise to do that. I think those are some of the qualities that attracted, you know, the front, the guardians to vote.
Joe Noga: Yeah, and you know, we, we sat for, for 11 years, we listened to and we learned a lot of the, the, the Tito isms and the, the, the patterns that he would fall into in responding to some of our questions about things like that in terms of vote. We’ve heard a couple of times him tell the story about why he’s so positive and why he’s, why his outlook is always the way it is when he comes to the park every day. He credits his father with, you know, he says you can wake up in the morning and every morning look in the mirror and you have the, the ability to choose whether you’re going to have a good day or a bad day in the big leagues. And he says he just chooses to have a good day every day. And that’s, that’s something that is, you can tell just by meeting the guy, talking to him, being around him, that that positive energy is always there. So I think that’s a big factor in, in why they went with Student Vogue and they made that decision. We do have a question here from Greg Benedetto in Cottonwood, Arizona. He was said he was excited about Stephen Vogt winning his second consecutive Manager of the Year award. But he also thought John Schneider had it locked up. Having guided the Blue Jays from worst to first and the brink of the World Series, he easily could have and should have won. On the other hand, Vogt brought the guards through so much adversity to get as far as they did. As one of the voters, what did you think made the difference between them? And I actually had a vote in the Manager of the Year award and, and really that’s the case there, Greg. The Manager of the Year award and all of the postseason awards are voted on strictly on the end of the regular season. The votes had to be in by noon the day before the postseason started. So the playoffs made made no impact, no bearing on what the result of the vote was. John Schneider’s performance in the postseason was remarkable. I thought that the World Series some of the best managed games we’ve ever seen in postseason history between Dave Roberts and John Schneider, but none of it counted towards the Manager of the Year Award. That was a regular season award. And when you looked at the regular season, yes, John Schneider brought the the Blue Jays back from worst to first. You know, I just, I looked at and having. And being privy to the what went on with Stephen Vogt in the background and just being around him every day. Like you said, all of that went into and factored into it was. It was an obvious thing. It was a historic comeb 15 and a half games. That, that vote really guided the, the Guardians too. You, you, you look at the three finalists. Only one of them did something that’s never been done before by a, by a manager. And, and that was Stephen Vogt. And that made the. The choice obvious to me.
Paul Hoynes: All good points, Joe. Definitely good points.
Joe Noga: All right, let’s jump into another question here from Mark disimon from Bakersfield, California. Hey, Hoinsey, since Dan Wilson finished third in the Manager of the Year voting with a catcher who hit 50 plus home runs, what could Stephen Vogt do if management gave him a couple of bats? I guess this is looking at what. I guess the question here is could Stephen Vogt win again if. If the Guardians went out and spent some money in the free agent market?
Paul Hoynes: Well, they definitely need help, Joe. On the offensive side, I loved what Vote said after, after they got beaten the, the wild card and, and even in the at the end of the season press conference with reporters, he goes, we’re not satisfied. This isn’t what this. Our final goal. Winning AL Central titles is not our Final goal, we want to be the last team standing. And I think, you know, obviously he knows they need help offensively. We know they need help offensively. The front office knows it needs help finance offensively. So, you know that, that’s the question mark. If you give, if you give a manager, if you, if you give vote to two hitters, you know, solid, big league, experienced hitters, you know, I think it’s only going to make this club better. It’s not going to make it worse. So, you know, that’s, that’s the task in front of Chris Antonetti and Mike Chernoff and Paul Dolan this winter. Will Dolan spend and will the front office make the right moves either through a trade or free agency?
Joe Noga: All right, here’s a question from Bobby in Albuquerque, New Mexico. He says, hoinse, do you think the Guardians could put together a package for a trade trade for Fernando Tatis Jr. Maybe somebody like Travis Bazana and somebody else. So, Bobby, I don’t think Travis Bazana is a, a piece that would even be considered right now for a trade possibility. They don’t know what they’ve got with him yet. They haven’t seen enough of him to know whether or not. And really, teams haven’t seen enough of him at the major league or at the, at the upper levels of the minors. And Fernando Tatis Jr. I believe he’s a contract that’s up in the $300 million range. And we’ve, we’ve heard Paul Dolan’s, you know, thoughts on $300 million contracts. What do you think, first of all, answering the specific question of targeting somebody like Fernando Tatis, and then beyond that, just any other big name, big ticket trade candidate out there right now for the Guardians.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe, I don’t see that happening. You know, and he’s really a marvelous talent. You know, he moved from shortstop to, to right field. Didn’t miss a beat. He’s a, you know, he’s a power guy, but, you know, he’s not. I don’t. I think he would be an acquired taste. This is a guy that, you know, kind of, you know, did some crazy things when he was younger. You know, dirt bikes, getting injured, ridden motorcycles, you know, really kind of drove the Padres crazy. And so. But it seems the last couple of years to have settled down. But this is a guy that dances. I’m not sure where Vault would stand on that. But, you know, I’ve learned one thing, Joe. Managers, if they get talent, you know, they, they pretty much accept anything And Ted, he’s is definitely a talented player. It would be great to see him in that lineup. But as you said, his, I think, you know, the price range is out of sight there for Cleveland.
Joe Noga: He signed a 14 year, $340 million contract with the San Diego Padres back a few years ago. So you’re talking about paying premium dollar for a guy who might not be the most reliable out there, but certainly when he’s on the field, you’re talking about top talent. But now, the second half of that question, in terms of the possibility of including Travis Bazzana in any sort of trade package that you’re considering this offseason, I think that would be. He’s pretty much would be untouchable just based on he’s the organization’s first number one overall pick. And you would, you would think they would want to see what he can do at the major league level before they even consider moving him.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, definitely.
Joe Noga: Definitely.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. Bazzana, I don’t think Bazano’s going anywhere. He’s. He was the number one pick overall in the 2024 draft. And like you said, they haven’t, they haven’t got a really good look at him. You know, he was hurt most of last this past season. So I, you know, I would think, you know, you’ve got to see your investment, what, what you paid for. I mean, they, what did they sign? They gave him almost, what, a $9 million signing bonus. So you’ve got to see what he can do before you make a move like that or consider a move like.
Joe Noga: All right, Hoynsey, that’s going to wrap up today’s edition of the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. We’ll get back to more hey, Hoinsey questions next week. We’ll talk to you then.
Paul Hoynes: Good deal.
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