CLEVELAND, Ohio — Just three years into his Hall of Fame eligibility, Omar Vizquel appeared to be on a glide path to Cooperstown. Now, with just two years remaining on the Baseball Writers’ Association of America ballot, his candidacy has all but collapsed – a stunning reversal for one of baseball’s greatest defensive shortstops.
“Omar in his third year was at over 50% of the vote. With seven more years to go he was a lock to get in,” cleveland.com’s Paul Hoynes explained on the latest Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. “And then the domestic abuse stuff came out. The lawsuit from the minor league bat boy… And last year he cratered. His vote total is down to17.8%.”
That precipitous drop – from more than half of voters supporting him to less than one-fifth – represents one of the most dramatic collapses in Hall of Fame voting history. For context, candidates who reach 50% typically continue trending upward until they cross the 75% threshold required for induction.
Vizquel’s on-field credentials remain impeccable: 11 Gold Gloves, nearly 3,000 hits across a remarkable 24-year career, and defensive wizardry that left fans and reporters awestruck.
“Probably the best shortstop you or I have ever seen play day in and day out,” Hoynes told host Joe Noga. “He played in the World Series. He was trending toward getting into the Hall of Fame sooner than a whole bunch of middle infielders, guys like Alan Trammell that had to wait to the veterans committee.”
What makes the situation particularly frustrating for Cleveland fans is that Vizquel’s case collapsed not because of a reassessment of his playing career, but due to off-field issues. The domestic abuse allegations and a lawsuit filed by a minor league bat boy during Vizquel’s time as a manager in the White Sox farm system fundamentally changed how voters viewed his candidacy.
While both situations have been legally settled – the lawsuit out of court, and no charges filed in the domestic case – the damage to Vizquel’s reputation among voters appears irreparable, at least in the short term.
“It’s just a shame,” Hoynes lamented. “He’s a Hall of Fame player, but he’s not going to get in, at least from the writers’ point of view.”
After next year, Vizquel’s case would move to the Era Committees, which review candidates the writers have passed over. These committees, which meet on different schedules depending on the era, provide another pathway to Cooperstown.
But will Vizquel even get that chance? As Hoynes notes, “You would have to be considered for that ballot.” There’s no guarantee the committee would include him given the nature of the allegations.
Vizquel has been making efforts to rehabilitate his image, getting involved in youth baseball both in Venezuela and the United States. Whether this will be enough to sway future voters remains to be seen.
For now, fans of the 1990s Cleveland teams are left to wonder what might have been. Jim Thome stands as the only inducted Hall of Famer from those powerhouse squads, with Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez, Kenny Lofton, and now Vizquel all falling short for various reasons.
“It’s frustrating and it’s tragic,” Noga said. “A big point of discussion and debate when you’re talking about Cleveland baseball.”
The door hasn’t completely closed, but Vizquel’s path to Cooperstown now appears to be a steep, uphill climb.
Podcast transcript
Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes. Hoynsie, it’s that time of year again. Baseball Raiders association of America members have received their hall of Fame ballots. All those who are eligible to vote, guys with at least 10 years on the beat and active voting members have received their, their packets. The, the ballot is, is out there and a couple of longtime Cleveland greats are sort of running out of time. You wrote about it this morning. Manny Ramirez and Omar making among their final appearances in terms of eligibility on this ballot. Running out of chances for the voters to get them in, number of different reasons why they’ve been on the ballot for as long as they have. And we’re talking about two guys who, you know from a thousand feet away, it looks like they’re no brainers for the hall of Fame. But, you know, once you dig a little deeper and you sort of find the reasons why the voters are hesitant to put these guys in or have been over the last few years. Well, let’s start with Manny Ramirez. You know, a prolific hitter, a championship player, a guy who would be a first ballot hall of Famer if it weren’t for the specter of performance enhancing drugs. What do you, what do you think of Manny Ramirez’s chances in his final year of eligibility on the ballot of getting into the hall of Fame?
Paul Hoynes: I don’t see it happening, Joe. I guess I could be a lot more definitive and say it’s not going to happen. He received his highest percentage of votes from the BBWA voters last year, and that was 34%. You’ve got to have 75% of the ballots in your favor. You know, that’s a huge jump. I just don’t see, see it with Manny. And it’s a shame. If I’ve ever covered, I don’t think I’ve ever covered a more, more enjoyable player to watch and a more talented player to watch. I mean, he get, I just, I just love watching him hit. I loved talking to him. He was just an unpredictable guy. One of those guys, Joe, that was so talented and there was no need for him to take PEDs, but unfortunately, he’s one of the guys that tested positive. You know, there’s a lot of guys on the, that are still waiting to get in the hall of Fame or are currently on this, on this ballot that have been tainted by, you know, steroid allegations, but they haven’t, they haven’t tested positive. And he has tested positive positive twice. I just, you know, and it I just don’t see him getting in. I mean this is a guy that hit 555 home runs, Joe, and he was just the best right handed hitter I’ve ever seen.
Joe Noga: A.312 career batting average, thousand 831 RBI, rear OPS plus of.154 where the league average is 169.3. Baseball Reference War for Manny Ramirez, all of those are our hall of Fame numbers over a 19 year career. He still holds the, the, the, the Cleveland record for ops, I believe for a career. This is a guy who’s, what he’s done on the field, no doubt, you know, first ballot, hall of Fame quality stuff. It’s just that the, you know, like you said when he came out and it was shown that he had tested positive and there are baseball writers who are, are still active voting members who like yourself have said that they don’t vote for those who tested positive in the PED era. That’s the reason why he’s not in. Do you think that will ever change? Do you think that, you know, over time that as those writers go and fall off the voting lists that you know, other writers would have considered Manny as a guy that they would put in?
Paul Hoynes: I think there are, you know, certain writers that will feel that way. And when guys like me and, and you know, the old guard kind of marches into the sunset, it could change, Joe. You know, he, he moves on after this season. He moves on to the ERA committees, you know, the three versions of the veteran committees. The, you know, that has hall of Famers on it. You know that those 16 member committees, they have a lot of hall of Famers on it. And you know, when you hear most hall of Famers talk about the steroid era, they’re dead set against it. I think it’s going to be a great test, you know, with the what the modern day ERA ballot that’s out there to right now with the what 12 guys with Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens on it. We’ll find out on December 7th if they get in. But how, how, how they’re treated by you know, the, that, that’s that ERA committee, the balloting theirs. So I think that would be a pretty good touchstone for, a touchstone for Manny in the, in the future if those guys get in, perhaps the door will be open for him sometime.
Joe Noga: Well, I, I, I, I take you to an interview that Alex Rodriguez just recently gave to Sports Illustrated where he talked about and, and he tried to sort of minimize the impact of what performance enhancing drugs did to his Career. I believe he hit almost 700 home runs in his career. And a Rod’s claim was that, well, performance enhancing drugs he took so late in the game in his career, they only helped him hit about 5, 5 to 7 home runs total of his 600 plus home runs in his career. And just the, the idea that a Rod believed that it was kindergarten level, according to him, was the usage of his, his performance enhancing drugs. Now, I don’t know if Manny’s involvement in peds was kindergarten level, but you’re talking about a guy who could have hit 500 career home runs without ever sticking a needle in his, in his body.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I mean, and a Rod, you know, you can’t be halfway pregnant, buddy. You know, and he, he’s hit 696 home runs. I mean, that’s a massive amount of home runs. But this is a guy, what, that had steroid allegations when he was in Texas and then when he got popped with the Yankees and suspended. So, I mean, I don’t know what, what are we supposed to believe here? If you’re on the outside looking in, you know, guys that have, you know, that have that taint of steroids but have never tested positive, a guy like Barry Bonds, I guess he has a case to argue, but I don’t think a Rod has much of a case to argue. And he’s admitted it. I mean, what can, you know, you know, you made your own bed. And, and he, I know he said that, you know, he, he said, you know, he’s kind of punched himself in the face and said, you know, that was stupid. And he cost himself a place in the hall of Fame.
Joe Noga: Now, we had occasion to, to talk to Manny when he was in town a couple years back for the, the Cleveland the Guardians hall of Fame. When he was inducted into that hall of Fame, that might just be the only hall of Fame besides maybe the, the Red Sox that he gets inducted into. As far as, you know, his approach or his feelings on it. He, he seemed kind of, kind of at peace, you know, when we asked him about the hall of Fame, just, you know, whether or not he thought he would get in or not. You know, he, he almost seemed a little confident at that point. But, you know, I don’t know if things have changed since then.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of guys that are on the other side looking in and know their chances of getting in are slim. They, they, they do kind of come with, come to peace with it. And I remember talking to Manny when he was hitting instructor with the Cubs. And he said, you know, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m at peace. I’m, I’m satisfied with, with what I did. My numbers are my numbers. Those aren’t going to change. If I get in the hall of Fame, fine. If I don’t, that’s fine as well. You know, I guess, you know, you’ve got to tell yourself something to just get up every morning, man, he’s, I mean, he’s always giving you the impression of a guy that, you know, hey, tomorrow’s another day. Let’s just enjoy it. But if you’re as talented as he was, Joe, and you played as long as he did, you were a World Series MVP, you were a 12 time all star, what a nine time silver slugger winner. And you don’t get in the hall of Fame and you see guys that, you know, couldn’t hold your shoes in the hall of Fame. I mean, I don’t know, I guess, you know, it would have to eat at you. You’d have to be a different kind of person to just walk away and not let it bother you.
Joe Noga: Well, and I’ll tell you, having gone, you know, for the first time in my career, gone and attended the, the hall of Fame ceremonies this past season in July to, to see Tom Hamilton get in, in, in, you know, enshrined there, you kind of know why. Once you’ve been there and seen it, you kind of know why it means so much to the people who are in the hall of Fame, to the players who were in the hall of, everybody around it. It’s like a dream. That weekend in Cooperstown. So you know why it means so much and why you want to be a part of it. If you’re a player and, and Manny Ramirez knows what he’s missing out on by not being there. So it’s, yeah, it’s a, it’s a big deal. And, you know, whether or not he’s made peace with it, I guess it’s frustrating for fans, especially Cleveland fans who, who followed him in, you know, 1995 through 2001 and hold still, hold a place for him and those teams so dear in their hearts that I think there’s, there’s just a lot of frustration built up on, on this end. Same with Omar, I guess. Omar Visquel, in his ninth year of eligibility on the ballot, just, you know, how frustrating is it for a guy who had been trending in such a direction towards, you know, possibly getting in and being voted in early on in his eligibility and Then things went sideways with the, the allegations of improprieties there and you know, the, the scandal basically that followed him when he was a minor league manager.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, just, you know, other thing that, you know, just, you know, you, you wonder, Joe. You just wonder. I mean, this is, you know, Omar, 11 time Gold Glove winner, probably the best shortstop you or I have ever seen play day in and day out. You know, he played 25, 24, 25 years, almost had 3,000 hits, an all star, he played in the World Series. And you’re right, Joe, he was, he was trending toward getting into the hall of Fame sooner than a whole bunch of middle infielders, guys like Alan Trammell that had to wait, you know, wait to the veterans committee or wait to the very, you know, that went what, 15 years at that on the ballot and never got a shot. You know, omar in his third year was at 50 over 50% of the vote. All he need, you know, he was with seven more years ago. He was a lock to get in. And then the domestic abuse stuff came out. The lawsuit from the bat boy at. In the, in the minor leagues was Chicago. And last year he is cratered. His vote total is down to 17, 17.8%. He’s got what, this is his ninth year. So he’s got one year left on the ballot. And you know, it’s just a shame, Joe, it’s just a shame he’s a Hall of Fame player, but he’s not going to get in, at least from the writers point of view.
Joe Noga: And that, you know, that leaves you to. Will he. How long before he makes it onto this ERA committee’s ballot? You know, the post1980 ERA, that’s an every three year cycle, I guess, for that. Do they put him on the ballot right away? Does he get a look and another chance through the veterans and the hall of Famers to, to, to somehow circumvent that vote and, and make it in?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, you know, I, I, Joe, that, that, that you would have to be considered for that ballot. You know, the, the, the lawsuit has been settled. You know, it was settled between, you know, the bat boy and, and Omar out of, out of court. The, the, he was never, I don’t think he was ever really charged on the domestic. That was settled. So do you move on from that? Hopefully that does, you know, I know Omar has talked about it. He’s made a, you know, concerted effort to get back and involved in baseball in youth baseball in Venezuela and here. So hopefully, you know, he can mend some fences here and gets back on the ballot and we’ll see what happens. But just, you know, just, it’s just a shame. Manny and Omar, just a shame. You know, we were talking before the podcast how great those 90 teams were and they were such a big part of it and they were so talented. If you had to guess, you would have, you would have, you know, put a, you would have put a check mark by both those guys name that they would be serious hall of Fame contenders or they would be in Cooperstown by now.
Joe Noga: Yeah. And right now Jim Thome is the guy on from those teams who’s in the hall of Fame. Think about Albert Bell. You know, he’s, he’s had his opportunities with the veterans committee was never elected. Amanda Ramirez, Omar Vizquel. But Kenny Lofton also sort of getting caught up in the sort of the jet wash of this PED era. Guys like Bonds and Clemens and having the, the ballot sort of get shrunk for him and not having a chance to really have the opportunity to at least put himself forward. That was, that was the frustrating thing earlier in this process was that he, he didn’t even make it to the, to the ballot for the ERAS committee this year for Lofton. So those are the guys you’re talking about from that 95 team and to. And overwhelmingly talented those teams were and the careers that those guys put together. And to have one hall of Famer out of a group of four or five guys who probably deserve to be in. You’re right, it’s frustrating and it’s tragic. I think it’s real. A big point of discussion and debate when you’re talking about Cleveland baseball here. Former Cleveland players who are on the ballot currently and, and sort of aren’t getting caught up in any of that first time guys. Shinsu Chu, Edwin and Carnacion, guys who, you know, what do you think the chances are that they get. Have a good strong showing early on in their voting process, their eligibility?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think, you know, both of them were really talented players. Good solid players. I think in Carnacion, you know, with over 400 home runs, Joe has a chance, a real chance to stay on the ballot. Of the guys that are on the ballot right now, he ranks fifth with 424 home runs behind a Rod Manny, Carlos Beltran and Andrew Jones. So you know it, it, you know, when the guardians, I mean guardians slash Indians acquire, you know, in Carnacion, I think he’s probably the last big time free agent they signed. Three years, $60 million deal. They brought him to hit home runs and that’s exactly what he did. He for two years, he hits.252 batting average, what he had 70 home runs with 214 RBI. He had seasons at 38 and 32 homers. So, you know, that’s. They brought him here for power. He produced and you know, then. Then they traded him, I believe. Right, they traded him.
Joe Noga: They traded him in the final year of his deal. Yeah, yeah. You know, one thing, that, one thing that helps Ankarnacion, the fact that he played with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 different teams in those 16 years in his career. You know, the majority of his years were spent in Cincinnati and Toronto, but he also played in Cleveland, Seattle, the White Sox for a year, the Yankees for a year. That’s going to help him in terms of, you know, having more voters familiar with him and familiar with his face and you know, you know, what he was all about. I think he could do very well, especially in that first year on the ballot.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, yeah, that’s a good point. And you know, he was a solid player, you know 260 batting average. He was a leader in the clubhouse. I remember after one postseason appearance post post season loss by the by Cleveland, Jose Ramirez didn’t want to talk to the two reporters. You know, he was kind of, he was on his way out of the clubhouse. Incarnacion made him stop and talk to reporters. Incarnacion’s had his locker right next to Jose and made him stop and face the music, so to speak. So interesting guy. Just, you know, he was born in the Dominican, Joe, but I think he moved to Puerto Rico, so he was eligible for the draft in Puerto Rico. And that’s. I think that Texas may have drafted him first. But yeah, it was kind of a strange circumstance. You know, he wasn’t, you know, I just thought he was a, you know, he was born in the Dominican, but he was, he was drafted. So interesting, you know, part of that. His career.
Joe Noga: Yeah, it’s interesting. He came out of high school from Puerto Rico in what, the 2000amateur draft. And so it’s. Guys from the 2000 draft are getting in, are eligible for the hall of Fame. O How does that make you feel? Geez, that’s just crazy. But yeah, I talked about Encarnacion, we talked about Shinsu Chu, another guy with, you know, played in a bunch of different places. You know, spent a lot of time in Texas after he was in Cleveland. But another long career, 16 years. Seattle, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Texas, a bunch of different teams there, you know, a guy who hit what he hit, 218 home runs. But really one of the things that sort of stood out for him, really one of the last Cleveland outfielders, Cleveland right fielders to, to, to hit for power and been consistently hit for power out there back to back 20 home run seasons in 2009 and 2010.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe. And in 2012, I believe he’s the last Cleveland right fielder to hit 20 or more home runs. And you know, he, he did a solid job. He, you know, he was, he was signed as a pitcher. I believe he had a great arm from right field. But they, you know, they, buddy, he also, you know, so they, whoever had him, I think Seattle maybe had drafted him. Yeah. And they changed him to an outfielder and he could run. He could, you know, he had hit for average. He’s a bit of an adventure in right field at times, but, but you know, he had some power and he had what he had five, six, seven good years in Cleveland. He, he was a solid guy.
Joe Noga: Yeah. And you know, just not surprising to see him on the, the hall of Fame ballot. But again, this is what you’re talking about here. When these are guys who have had long careers and, and put up the, they get hopefully a good long look by the writers. Hopefully a guy like Shinsu Chu doesn’t fall off like Kenny Lofton did after the first year. They need a minimum of what, 5% of the vote.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, 5% of the vote.
Joe Noga: So you have to appear on 5% of the ballots. Last year, 394 ballots cast by the BBWA members. So, you know, you know, do the math there. And how many people have to put him on or name him on their ballots? I’m sure there will be a few. And yeah, so the voting process begins now, sort of that discern. And then I believe the writers who are eligible have until December 31st to send in their ballots. This is still a paper ballot process, huh, Hoinsey?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, yeah. And they’re registered. Every ballot’s registered, Joe. Every ballot is numbered. I mean, God forbid, if you lose a ballot, you’re in trouble. I don’t think you’re getting one pack. It’s that this is, you know, about 10 years ago, it turned into, you know, kind of an I Spy thing. It’s top secret balloting. And, but you know, they’re very careful with the count. You know, they have what an accounting firm come in and, you know, double check the, the vote totals. And so, you know, if you gotta sign the ballot if the ballot’s unsigned, the vote doesn’t count. So, you know, there’s a lot of. A lot of intricacies in this thing.
Joe Noga: Yeah. You know, from coming from somebody who’s. Who’s been a voter for a long time, you know how this is something that you get you. Takes very seriously. Right. It’s not something that you. You just sort of fill out and send off. It’s. There’s a lot of careful consideration that goes into, you know, putting together your ballot.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, it is, Joe. You get to vote for 10 guys and, you know, the ballot is. Is chosen by bbw, the BBWA writers, you know, certain committee, and, you know, you’ve. The players have to have played in the big leagues for at least 10 years, you know, and they’ve had. They have to have made an impact. You know, not. Not Everybody that played 10 years is going to get on a ballot. You have to, you know, have. You have to. Have to gone to all games. You’ve had to, you know, hit significant stats. You’ve had. You have to win awards. You have to play in World Series. They really kind of pick the best of the best in. In every year. But as. As a voter, try to vote for 10 guys every ballot. I like to give people a chance. You know, sometimes, you know, you vote for a guy that just to keep him on the ballot almost, you know, his career gets a little. Gets looked at a little bit more. I know Mark Burley. You know, I think maybe because I saw him so much, I voted for him when he was pitching for the White Sox and he, you know, just pitched so well and was so durable for them that, you know, I voted for him the last couple years. He’s still on the ballot. But, you know, you have to. You look at every guy, every candidate, and, you know, you give it. Give it, you know, your best, your best effort and, you know, invest some time in it.
Joe Noga: Does it ever change? Like you talked about voting for Burley the last couple of years, but does it ever change when new guys come on and some guys go off the ballot or. You voted for Burley the last three years, but is there ever a reason. If you voted for a guy consistently, is there a reason you would not vote for him in a year or if. If something would change there?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I guess, you know, it depends who’s coming on the battle. And if, you know, a guy like Ichiro comes on, you know, okay, you know, these, you know, he. And it’s between Burley, you know, it’s, you know, A guy, you know, a borderline guy and a guy, you know, a no doubter, you know, and that’s going to, you know, force that guy off the ballot. Then, you know, that’s what happens. But, you know, but, you know, so, but there’s not too many guys like, you know, Ichiro and, you know, Cece made it last year in the first ballot and Jeter and Mariano Rivera, you know, those guys are few and far between. At least they’re getting that way, it seems to me.
Joe Noga: Yeah, you talked about four guys there that all have ties to the Yankees in one way or another. So. Interesting, interesting how for somebody who has, is sort of adjacent and observing the vote and things like that, how, how different biases come into play. Like you said, you saw Mark Burley so often because they played in the, because he played in the, the AL Central against Cleveland for so many years. You know, your perspective might be different than a West coast voter who only got to see Burley, you know, once or twice a year. It’s, yeah, it’s, it’s an interesting dynamic with the way that the sort of the, the voting electorate for the, the BBWA and the writers and, and not everybody takes their, their ballot as seriously as, as guys like you do. Hoynsy. Some guys turn in blank ballots as forms of protest and all that kind of thing. It doesn’t happen often, but it does happen.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. You know, some guys are, you know, you know, small hall voters. You know, they, they want, they, they want the best of the best. And you know, if you’re, if they gotta, if they gotta go to Baseball Reference to look up your stats, you’re, you’re not getting in. But they, they, they, they’re, they’re, they’re voting on the eye test. You know, if, if okay, Babe Ruth. Yeah, check that. Hank Aaron, check Reggie Jackson. Check. And anybody else is in trouble. But, and I think, you know, there’s different philosophies on how you vote for people like a large hall, you know, and people, some people like, believe in a small hall. But I’ve seen what we’ve had a couple years in the past where no one got voted in. So, you know, it has happened.
Joe Noga: Yeah. And you know, special, special situation, special circumstance years, you know, where only veterans committee guys get in or things like that. I can understand that. But you know, this year I think there’s enough talent on that ballot to see multiple guys get in. I think it’ll, it’ll be the case. I think a guy like Carlos Beltran has a good chance. And you know, it might be like that. All right, Hines, that’s going to wrap up today’s edition of the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. We’ll have plenty to talk about with the Rule 5 protection deadline today. We will talk about that tomorrow and heading towards the non tender deadline at the end of the week. So we’ll be back to talk with you then.
Paul Hoynes: Good deal.
If you purchase a product or register for an account through a link on our site, we may receive compensation. By using this site, you consent to our User Agreement and agree that your clicks, interactions, and personal information may be collected, recorded, and/or stored by us and social media and other third-party partners in accordance with our Privacy Policy.