‘There’s no off switch’: Could the Guardians restrict stars from playing in World Baseball Classic?

CLEVELAND, Ohio — As the World Baseball Classic looms on the horizon following MLB’s winter meetings, the Guardians face a challenging dilemma: allowing players to represent their countries in the prestigious international tournament or protecting their valuable assets from potential injury and fatigue.

The situation is particularly complex for relievers like Cade Smith, who has been a workhorse for Cleveland over the past two seasons. Smith, who could be a natural fit for Team Canada, presents a difficult decision for the organization.

“I’m sure Cade would like to pitch. I don’t know if the Guardians would like to see him pitch,” Paul Hoynes, cleveland.com Guardians beat reporter, explained on the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. “This is a guy that has been used a lot the last two years. He made what, 76 appearances last year? Made well over 80 the year before, counting the postseason.”

The concern isn’t just about the additional innings but the intensity at which players compete in these international games so early in the year. Unlike spring training appearances where pitchers might work at reduced output or focus on specific pitches, the WBC brings out maximum effort.

“There’s no off switch for these guys. And when they’re out there, they’re competing,” noted Joe Noga, cleveland.com Guardians beat reporter. “You look at Cade Smith, and from what we’ve seen of him over the last two seasons there’s no 75% with this guy.”

This sentiment was echoed by Hoynes, who emphasized the emotional component of representing one’s country: “Once you get in these games it’s not like you’re throwing 70% or 80%, you’re pitching for your country, you’re pitching against the best players in the world and the adrenaline spikes and it’s like a big league game again.”

The Guardians have historically been cautious with their pitching assets in international competitions. “Cleveland has always been really protective of their pitchers when it comes to the WBC,” Hoynes pointed out.

However, the organization recognizes they can’t simply prohibit players from participating if it’s truly important to them. “I guess if they really, really want to go, you can’t stop them. If they want to pitch for their country, if it’s a big thing to them, you have to let them go,” Hoynes said.

The solution typically involves strict parameters and agreements between MLB teams and national team managers. “You’ve got to have that all secured under lock and key before you let these guys go because the WBC is a great event, but it’s just a warm up for a Major League baseball team,” Hoynes explained.

For pitchers with injury histories like Erik Sabrowski, who has undergone two Tommy John surgeries, the decision seems clearer. “That’s a guy you’ve really got to be careful with. You don’t want to overexpose him. You want him pitching for the Guardians, not Team Canada,” Hoynes said.

Position players present a different calculation. Bo Naylor, who has experience in the WBC and could potentially play alongside his brother Josh for Team Canada, would likely be permitted to participate, especially with David Fry and Austin Hedges available as catching options for Cleveland during spring training.

As the tournament draws closer, these decisions will become more pressing. The balancing act between allowing players to fulfill dreams of international competition and ensuring they remain healthy for the MLB season represents one of the most delicate challenges front offices face in the modern game.

The podcast discussion offers fans a fascinating window into how these decisions are made, with player desires, organizational priorities, and international baseball politics all factoring into what might seem like simple yes-or-no decisions.

Podcast transcript

Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes. Hoynsie, Emmanuel Clase and Luis Ortiz had a conference in the courthouse yesterday in the Eastern District of New York. And we found out some dates moving forward, some potential developments there. Looking at quite a long time before these two had their, their actual date in court. But we do know, you know, when jury selection is, is set to begin in the trial for.

Paul Hoynes: Right, Joe? Meeting yesterday, the judge said the jury selection will start on May 4, and after that’s completed, was expected that the trial will last probably about two weeks. So, you know, that’s well into, you know, the what, the second month of the season. So really interesting timing on this. And Joe, this thing’s, I mean, unless there’s a plea agreement or unless there, there’s some kind of settlement, this thing is going to roll on for a while.

Joe Noga: Yeah. And, and that’s sort of the topic that we were discussing here before we started recording was what this does to the guardian’s ability to go out and either sign free agents or invest in players that are already on the roster with whatever money that they could be not required to pay Emmanuel Classe. But that won’t come, you know what, they, they won’t know about that for sure until after the trial is wrapped up, after Major League Baseball hands down its discipline and determines whether or not the guardians are going to be on the hook for that money. So, so really that. That’s just sort of sitting out there in limbo until these things are resolved. Do you think, you know, it would be in the guardian’s best interest, certainly, for, for things to come to, you know, maybe some sort of plea agreement or a resolution before going to trial.

Paul Hoynes: Definitely. Joe, I think Major League Baseball would love to see this thing on both fronts, the legal front, and that’s forthcoming from Rob Manfred, the commissioner wrapped up by the start or sometime into spring training. That would be kind of ideal for them because this trial goes into May. If it, you know, starts in May and progresses in May, there’s no way MLB can come out and make a decision on this before the end of the trial. I would think that’d be pretty prejudicial against Class A and Ortiz, wouldn’t it?

Joe Noga: Yeah. And it, you can’t really do that. That’s sort of why MLB has been waiting this long to go ahead and make their decision. You don’t want to jump in front of the, you know, jump the cart before the horse there, I guess, is the, is the situation, but you know, really it does sort of hamstring the organization. And we’ve said this before in their ability to, to go about their, their normal operations and their roster building and their, you know, planning for the future. So it’s a hard situation. But when you’re talking about Ortiz and Class A and you know, their stated goal is to, is to fight this and they have every right to, I guess to, to have their day in court. But you’ve got to believe that the evidence that’s been presented and what’s out there is pretty overwhelming, that they’re up against pretty, pretty long odds in that regard, indicated by the fact that, you know, it came out that the prosecutors have not really even offered a plea bargain or any sort of deal to these individuals. That doesn’t sound like it’s something normal. Usually if you’ve got that, that much evidence and you know, you’ve got these guys behind the eight ball, you would go out there and offer them some sort of, some sort of plea to make this case get resolved rather quickly.

Paul Hoynes: Sure. Class A and Ortiz know what, know what’s at stake here. Their careers are at stake. You know, if this goes against them both on both fronts, MLB and, and the legal case, I mean they could be banned for baseball from life. Going to take this to, you know, I, I think probably there could be a mindset that, you know, we’re going to take this down to the last, you know, the last, the last strand of this thing and because, you know, if, if we lose, we lose and if we lose, we know what we’re losing. So. But still, you know, I think from the guardian’s point of view, Joe, you know, and we heard Chris Antonetti say this at the end of the season, we’ve just got to act like they’re not that we don’t have them, that they’re on the injured list or, you know, that, you know, right now they’re on the restricted list, they’re not getting paid, they don’t count toward the 40 man roster. And I would imagine that’s, that’s how it will go, you know, until we have a resolution, you know, one way or the other on this.

Joe Noga: So worst case scenario is that this stretches deep into the season into May and Majors League Baseball doesn’t come out with its discipline or its decision on, you know, what the guardians O Class A and that, that money and that flexibility sort of gets lost to them for, basically for an entire season. It, you know, up against a, whatever trade deadline later on during the season that you can’t, you can’t operate that way, I guess knowing that money is out there or could be out there potentially. So a very interesting. Yeah, the, the whole idea of having a trial hanging over the, the organization’s head as they go through the first, you know, three months of a season, three, four months of a season. Not the best situation. But we’ve seen this, this club, you know, handle adversity and get through it, you know, rather, rather well under Stephen Vogt and Chris antennae. Mike, turn off the, the front office and the, the coaching staff did a remarkable job last year of, of leading this club while the investigation was still going on.

Paul Hoynes: No doubt about it. They kind of gathered themselves. I mean, it had to be a shock. You know, first the shock of losing Ortiz, who was kind of an up and coming starter. You lose him on what, May 3, just before his start against the Cubs. Then a little later in the month, May 28, you, you lose the best closer in baseball to the same gambling scandal and you lose them both for the rest of the season and the postseason. And who knows, you know, it, it could be for the rest of their careers. Rallied. They, they came together and pulled off one of the most remarkable seasons we’ll ever see in, in Cleveland baseball.

Joe Noga: Yeah, so we’ll keep an eye on any updates out of the Eastern District of New York and we’ll, we’ll provide them here. But yeah, the, the trial being, you know, five, six months away doesn’t. Doesn’t necessarily help the guardians in, in any way, I guess, is the, the big news of, you know, coming out of the court. But this week. All right, Hoins. The other thing sort of in the, in the distance, sort of ahead of, you know, a lot of teams in baseball getting their, uh, their houses in order. I know the, the winter meetings are coming up at the end of this week and you know, there, there’s a lot of business to take care of before then with free agency and everything that’s going on. But once we get past that, once we get on the other side of the new year, the attention’s going to turn to the, the World Baseball Classic. And that’s back again for the first time since what, 22 was the, the last one?

Paul Hoynes: 20, 23.

Joe Noga: 2023, right. Yeah, was the last time they had one. And you know, obviously Japan beat the United States in an epic, you know, final game there with Shohei Ohtani striking out Mike Trout for the, the championship. Everybody remembers that. This one, I think, is going to be the, the biggest and best World Baseball Classic tournament of them, potentially. A few names, guardians, players who could be part of the tournament. And we decided we wanted to sort of go through which guardians might be interested to their, their home, you know, their, Their country’s teams. You got to start at the top with, with Jose Ramirez. And what are the chances that you think Jose Ramirez, A, wants to play, B, would be allowed to play by the Guardians and, And C, would, Would be a piece that the Dominican Republic team would want?

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think, you know, the Dominican Republic obviously has a stacked lineup, but I think they would like Jose Ramirez, you know, either at third base or coming off the bench or whatever. That’s great player. But I wonder. Joe, you know, Jose didn’t play in the All Star Game last season. Caught some heat from the Dominican fans for being elected as a starter. But Jose, you know, went home to the Dominican, healed up, he had a bunch of injuries. He, you know, wanted to be strong for the second half. I wonder if that, that would work against him. Still, still think this is something that probably. I don’t know if it’s on his bucket list, but, you know, we’ve seen him play. We’ve seen him, you know, for so long, he, he avoided the Home Run Derby, but, you know, he entered that maybe, you know, as he gets later in his career, he’d like to play in the wbc, but as we were talking about before the podcast, that’s a stacked lineup, man. That’s. They’re loaded.

Joe Noga: Yeah. You know, there’s a lot you’ve got to take into consideration. Injuries, the potential for injuries. You know, does he want to be tired as he enters the, the beginning, the early part of the regular season, you know, that that’s where Jose Ramirez’s, you know, goals and priorities lie is, is with, you know, winning with the Guardians and winning a World Series in Cleveland and winning an MVP and you know, any, any sort of participation in the, in the WBC before the season has to have some sort of impact on that, has to, you know, take away a little bit from his. Again, you, you mentioned he sat out the All Star Game. He sat out the All Star Game to, to. He was tired. That, that was the, the stated reason. So, I mean, and, and it, it was valid. I mean, the guy gets beat up and bumps and bruises all throughout the. The season and he plays every day. But you mentioned the lineup that the Dominican Republic could run out there. This is a. Just a potential lineup. Not, not even that they have commitments from all these guys but they could put out a lineup that has Cattell Marte at second base, Fernando Tatis Jr. In right field, Juan Soto in left field, Ramirez at third base, or Manny Machado. That’s the, that’s the question. We got to get Into Ramirez at third base, Vlad Guerrero Jr. At first base, Rafael Devers at DH, Willie Adamus at shortstop, Julio Rodriguez batting eighth in center field, and Yani or Diaz and behind the plate as a catcher, probably the weakest spot in the lineup might be their, their potential at catcher or even shortstop. But, you know, the, the question’s going to be Manny, Manny Machado or Jose Ramirez at the base. Who, who are you?

Paul Hoynes: Rattle those names off. I’m thinking of the 95 Indians. That’s the kind of lineup they have. I mean, that is amazing. I mean, you know, I, you know, Machado or, or Jose. You can’t go wrong with either one of those guys. I just, wow, that’s a tough choice. I, I can’t even make a choice.

Joe Noga: Well, Machado had played shortstop earlier in his career, but he’s not a shortstop anymore. He’s, he’s older. He’s a third baseman now. And, and the same with Jose Ramirez. He played shortstop. He played in the middle infield earlier in his career. I think you could have them both in the same lineup and bat, you know, one in DH and one at third base. But then you’re, you’re bumping Vlad Guerrero for Rafael Devers at first base. I don’t think that’s happening. Either way, somebody’s going to be sitting on your bench who’s a pretty darn good, good hitter. But really, the one thing that I think, you know, Guardians, fans, I think the organization, you know, if he does participate in this, if he does play, I don’t think they want to see him, you know, moving positions or playing somewhere out of position, you know, at second base or somewhere else or, you know, he’s a third baseman. That’s where he’s comfortable, and that’s where I think there’s the least amount of risk of him getting injured there.

Paul Hoynes: That’s a great point. I mean, I think with any of these teams that let their, any big league teams that let their players go to participate in the wbc, they have to have agreements with that country, that manager that is managing that country’s team, that you’re only going to play this guy, you know, at, at a certain position. My, my pitchers are only pitching X number of innings. No guy goes over two or three innings or throws X number of pitches. You’ve got to have that all secured under lock and key before you let these guys go because the WBC is a great event, but it’s just a warm up for, for Major League baseball team.

Joe Noga: Right. It’s, it’s preseason tournament and it, it, it’s great to get the, the, you know, national, you know, pride and the, the, the feelings going there. It’s certainly a very exciting thing to watch. But you know, again, you’re talking about players who have contracts with these teams that are multi, multi, multi million dollar contracts and these investments that the teams have made. They certainly want to make sure that they get their team, their guys back and healthy and ready for the regular season. And we mentioned the lineup that the Dominican Republic team could potentially run out there. I was looking at the pitchers that are potentially available to them. Luis Severino, Freddie Peralta, Luis Heel, Sandy Alcantra, all guys who, you know, are big names and whether or not they’d be allowed to participate. But then I look at, you know, other Dominican, you know, players potentially. You’re talking both Luis Ortiz and Emmanuel Clase are both, I guess eligible, but not eligible because they’re certainly this investigation and criminal trial would still be going on during that time. But how dominant would the, would the Dominicans have been with Ortiz and Class A available to them as pitchers?

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I mean, what a. What of what a what, what, what a talent pool the Dominican Republic is. Those two guys, you know, you’re talking Class A, you know, one of the best closers in baseball and Ortiz an up and coming starter. And it’s just, you know, what has happened to them, what they become involved in. It’ a shame. It’s, you know, it, it’s the other side of the coin when it comes to professional sports.

Joe Noga: Yeah. So manager Albert Pujols will not have likely Class A or Ortiz available to him in that talent pool. But certainly you’re talking about Ramirez being a guy from the Guardians that we have to keep an eye on there other countries where, you know, they’re the Guardians have a pretty strong Canadian representation on their roster. You’ve got Bo Naylor, Eric Zabrowski, Cade, all guys. I would certainly think that the team Canada would be looking at Cade Smith and saying, boy, he’d look, he’d look great in a uniform for the national team. All these guys have history playing on the junior national team for Team Canada. So you know that they’re very familiar to the organization. What would it take for the Guardians to give Cade Smith permission to Pitch in the World Baseball Classic. And is that something that you’d like to see?

Paul Hoynes: You know, I’m sure Cade would like to pitch. I don’t know if the Guardians would like to see him pitch. I mean, this is a guy that has been used hard the last two years, Joe. I mean, he made what, 76 appearances last year? Made well over 80 the year before, counting the postseason. That’s a lot of wear and tear. I know they always take it easy on these guys in the early part of spring training when they, when they bring the, you know, kind of the heavy duty relievers back and the starters as well, they ease them into the Cactus League season. This is something, this is really a fine balance that you have to work with. And I think if the player really wants to play for his country, the Guardians will let him. But there’s always some restrictions. There’s a lot of restrictions that go with it. They’ve got to come to camp a lot earlier than the normal, you know, than the normal pitchers and catchers or any. Anybody else who’s playing. They come in a little bit earlier, I should say, just to make sure they’re ready and that they’re ramping up beforehand to get ready for these games. Because once you get in these games, you know, it’s, it’s not like you’re, you’re throwing 70 or 80%, you’re, you’re, you’re pitching for your country, you’re pitching against the best players in the world and the adrenaline spikes and it’s like a big league game again. So, yeah, be really, really careful.

Joe Noga: There’s no off switch for these guys. And when they’re out there, they’re competing and that’s, that’s a big thing that I guess the clubs have to know that. And they do know that. I mean, you’re never gonna, you look at Cade Smith and from what we’ve seen of him over the last two seasons there, there’s no, you know, 50% or 75% with this guy. He’s going out there, like he says, he’s going out there to get three outs, and that’s what he does. So I gotta imagine that they want to be very careful with him in that regard. Sabrowski is a different sort of animal because he’s, he’s dealt with injuries and injuries aren’t something we’ve seen with Cade Smith so far. But Zabrowski, I think they would want to be very careful with him if he were interested in playing.

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, you know what two Tommy John Surgeries. He had another elbows injury at the, at the start of camp last year that really, you know, he was down for a long time and, you know, he didn’t make, you know, he didn’t open a season with Cleveland. So that’s a guy you’ve, you’ve really got to be careful with. You don’t want to overexpose him. You want him pitching for the Guardians, not Team Canada. You want him pitching for Cleveland when it matches matters.

Joe Noga: Naylor, you know, did participate in, in the 2023 WBC while Josh Naylor was, his brother was coming off of injury and didn’t play. Josh was the one, I, I think, who, who really wanted to be out there on the roster and wasn’t able to. I, I’ve got to imagine he’ll, he’ll definitely be in Canada’s lineup, you know, when, when the tournament rolls around, you know, do you think Bo Naylor had enough of that experience or is that something. Maybe an opportunity to play with his brother once again might draw him to that?

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think he’d be. That would be hard to pass up. I think, Joe, if you’re, if your brother’s playing and you’re playing and you’re playing for your country, I think it’d be hard to pass up. But, you know, it all depends what the Guardians, you know, how much leash they give him, what, you know, how he’s feeling. You know, I, I would think, you know, if I had to bet, I would imagine, you know, that Bull would start, would play for Team Canada, but I’m not sure. You know, he’s, he’s just coming into his own as an everyday catcher. He’s got to know this staff. You know, he’s gotten to know the last couple years. He’s worked well with them. It all depends, you know, does he need to work with them in spring training or can he go and miss, what, 10, 15 days of spring training for Team Canada? Who knows?

Joe Noga: Well, and the other thing to factor into that is the return of David Fry to health and to being available as a potential option behind the plate for the Guardians, especially in spring training, but also especially early in the season. And, you know, we know the way Stephen Vogt likes to incorporate Frye’s ability to go behind the plate, go back out into the field late in games as he’s making all of his moves and his switches. But if Bo Naylor has to go and miss two weeks of camp, you’ve got David Fry, you’ve got Austin Hedges, so you’ve Got capable replacements there. I just wonder. And a guy even like a Cooper Ringle, you know, guys who were in the pipeline at catcher, maybe also getting opportunities there. But I think maybe the Guardians would be a little more okay with the idea of Bo Nailer playing for Team Canada with. If they know that David Fry is going to be there from day one and be ready to go behind the plate.

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, that’s a great point. You know, and you’re always going to have extra catching in spring training to handle all the pitchers in camp. So you might be able to, you know, missing Naylor wouldn’t be that big a deal for the time, you know, that he’s away from camp and playing for Canada, if he plays for Canada. I guess we’re making a big an assumption there.

Joe Noga: Right, Right. Another team, another country that has a big presence, influence on the roster for the Guardians. Venezuela. Both Brian Rocchio and Gabriel Arias, you know, Venezuelan natives and, you know, Andres Jimenez had participated back in 2023. It was actually the shortstop for the Venezuelan team. But, you know, we talked about. In 2024, we talked about the, the winter ball experience that helped Brian Rocchio sort of mature and, you know, become the guy who, who we would eventually come to know as playoff. Rocco that was sort of born out of the winter ball experience and getting that, you know, the off season, you know, time on the field there and really sort of playing in his country, for his country. Do you think Rocchio would be an attractive piece to the Venezuelan team?

Paul Hoynes: I think he would, Joe. I mean, if, if he wants to play and if they want him. You know, it all depends. Venezuela is a lot like the Dominican Republic. They’ve got a lot of players there, a lot of players in the big leagues. You know, they’re going to have a, you know, a wide field to choose from. But Rocco certainly has played well. You know, I know he, what he moved to base, obviously, with Cleveland, but I think he’s still a shortstop at heart.

Joe Noga: Right. And, you know, there are no, there’s no lack of middle infield options for Team Venezuela. If they’re looking for guys, obviously, Jose Altuve is at the top of the list and. But you’ve got to be wondering about how effective and how, you know, he’s. He’s getting a little older, he’s getting up there in years. Ezekiel Tovar is a, as a shortstop, he’s a top guy listed here as a potential. They’ve got Eugenio Suarez at third base, guys like Sal Perez that can be behind the plate. But you Know in their, in their lineup they could run out there. Ronald Acuna Jr. Anthony Santander, William Contreras, Jackson. Cheerio is potentially out there. And Luis, Luis Arise. Any opportunity for guys like Rocchio and maybe Gabriel Arias to go out there and play along. Luis alongside Luis Arise would be ideal as well. But Gleyber Torres, Francisco Alvarez, these are all guys who could play for Venezuela. You know, the big question for them would be pitching.

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, definitely no areas is played a lot, a lot of winter ball the last two years in Venezuela. I don’t know if that’s, you know, obviously it helped him a bit this, this past season and I was just wondering if he was maybe copying what Jimenez did last season when he played winter ball and, and got ready to play for the WBC for Venezuela. The Guardians let him do that or I should say in 2023. You know, maybe Arias is, is a Venezuela shortstop. He’s hitting.281. 280 in Venezuela. I’m not sure if he’s still playing right now, but he’s played a lot. He’s played 20, 25 games down there.

Joe Noga: The, the big, you know, question for you know, guardians fans and baseball fans really is what’s the United States team going to look like and can the US team under Mark DeRosa make it back to the final again where you know, they played Japan in the last go round? You know, obviously the, the Dominican Republic is a team that’s a juggernaut. Venezuela is just a fun team to watch. Team Japan is going to be basically you’re going to be seeing the future lineups for the Dodgers, Padres and Angels all you know, playing for the uh, the team Japan there as more, more and more of those guys come over. But the United States team could be very interesting. It starts with Aaron Judge as the captain and they got the commitment from Aaron Judge and Cal Raleigh, the two guys at the top of the MVP race in the American League. And it really, the lineup just sort of goes from there. You know what, who would you like to see playing for the United States in a potential lineup for the WBC?

Paul Hoynes: You know, I think Bobby Witt Jr. Is in there. You know, you can’t go wrong with him. And who a cup.

Joe Noga: A couple outfielders, Corbin Carroll and Pete Crowe Armstrong have, have committed. They recently committed so they join Paul Skeens as you know the, the NL Cy Young winner. Going to be one of your starting pitchers there. So so far pretty, pretty stacked lineup.

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, definitely. I always feel bad for the US when the WBC rolls around because they seem they’re at such a disadvantage. It comes at the worst. You’re coming into spring training where, you know, you’ve been, you’ve been working out, but the players haven’t been playing baseball for most of the winter since the end of last season. The other countries are geared up for this thing and the US is just kind of playing catch up. But the talent on that team, Joe, is so great that I’m sure they’ll have a great showing and I’d love to see Japan and Japan and Team USA again in the final.

Joe Noga: Yeah, a couple of holes at first and third base right now in that lineup and, and really those spots haven’t been spoken for because some of the guys who, who might be in line to take those spots are, are free agents and, and big time free agents out there right now without teams to sort of speak for them. You’re talking about Alex Bregman potentially at third base, Kyle Schwarber as a DH or an outfielder, and maybe even Pete Alonso at first base. These are your top flight free agents. And until they sign and know what going on with them, I don’t think you’re going to see commitments from them in terms of whether or not they’ll be able to participate.

Paul Hoynes: I think it’s kind of, it’s tough when, when you’re talking about players of that quality that are unsigned and let’s say they, you know, they get a deal before spring training with a new team and then do you, do you take off for, you know, a week or 10 days or half the camp, you know, and you know, you’re, you’re just new to the ball club, so maybe that’s part of the negotiations, you know, before you sign. But it puts them in an awkward.

Joe Noga: Situation, definitely, you know, a place where, you know, maybe the guardians might have some potential to see a guy on that roster, might be in the pitching department and maybe even in relief. I gotta believe that they want to be very protective of guys like Gavin Williams, Tanner Bybey, if they would be of interest to, you know, the guys who builded the Team USA roster. But what do you think of a guy like Hunter Gattis who could provide a lot of value in the back end of the bullpen?

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think, you know, you got to look at him the same way you look at Cade Smith, another heavy duty reliever that’s been used a lot the last two years. If you’re Cleveland, you know, you, you, I think you’d be very leery to let him go. And pitch somewhere else unless he was under, you know, really tight restrictions. So, yeah, I would be. Cleveland has always been really protective of their pitchers when it comes to the wbc. I remember talking to, you know, De la Rosa. Who’s he? Yeah, Mark DeRosa at Before the, the last WBC that Cleveland had not given him permission to talk to a bunch of his, a bunch of their clothes, I mean, pitchers. So, you know, I think they’re, they’re protective of that, but, and especially guys like Gaddison and Smith, you know, you really have to be careful with them and your starters too. I mean, Gavin Williams, I mean, had a breakout year, but he’s dealt with injuries. And Bybey’s been your horse for the last three years. Do you let him go? I mean, I guess if they really, really want to go, you can’t stop them, Joe. You can’t. You know, if they want to pitch for their country, if it’s a big, big thing to them, you have to let them go. You know, you’ve got to be really, really careful with them. And, and you know, Bobby’s on that multi year deal, right? So that plays a part in it too.

Joe Noga: But what about somebody like a Joey Cantillo who’s still trying to prove himself and you know, certainly not a household name, but you know, if they’re looking for a guy who can give you flexibility as a starter or a reliever, that’s a guy like that. I can’t imagine the United States rolling out Joey Cantillo to start a game in the wbc. Traditionally, you know, for other countries, young pitchers have had breakout performances in the wbc. I’m thinking of this, I’m thinking, you know, why not Joey Cantillo?

Paul Hoynes: Yeah, that, that’s, that’s a good name, Joe. Like you said, very versatile guy. Can start, can relieve. He’d be a perfect guy to fit into the Team USA’s staff because of his versatility. You know, he hasn’t been really pitched too hard, I don’t think by Cleveland. And maybe they would, they would think that the experience would be good for him. You know, he’s, he’s, he’s pitched in, you know, a couple postseason games. You know, he’s had that. And maybe this would further his career.

Joe Noga: Yeah, all, all, all things to take into consideration. So it’s not a, you know, a straightforward formula. It’s more like, you know, it’s more like an algebra equation to try and figure out, you know, who could go and who could not. So, yeah, lots to look forward to with the wbc, but we’ve got a long way to go to get there before the tournament starts on the other side of the new year. Baseball’s winter meetings coming up at the end of the week. We’ll do a hey, Hoinsy episode tomorrow and we’ll. We’ll get you ready for a trip to warmer weather.

Paul Hoynes: Good deal, Joe. It’s. Yeah, the cold weather kind of got on us earlier. This is like an old time December.

Joe Noga: There you go. All right, we’ll talk to you tomorrow.

Paul Hoynes: Okay, buddy?