CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Nick Castellanos saga took a dramatic turn when the Philadelphia Phillies released the slugger Thursday with $20 million still owed on his contract. What followed was a bombshell revelation about his behavior last season, and the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast dissected whether the Guardians – a team known for its pristine clubhouse culture – would consider rolling the dice on the controversial outfielder.
Cleveland.com beat writer Paul Hoynes laid out an explosive incident from last season that may have led to Castellanos’ release in vivid detail: “He went to the clubhouse, grabbed a beer and came back into the dugout and sat down. Then he got into a confrontation with the coaching staff. He sat down next to the manager, Rob Thompson, and gave him an earful and told him what he thought of him.”
The question becomes especially relevant for Cleveland, a team that has built its identity around clubhouse chemistry under two-time Manager of the Year Stephen Vogt.
As Guardians beat writer Joe Noga pointedly asked on the podcast: “This is Stephen Vogt’s team. This is a team and an environment that he has developed. To introduce an X factor at this point, a veteran guy who could be sort of a malcontent if you let it happen. I don’t know if that’s the best thing. Is it worth it if the clubhouse around you is burning to the ground?”
The debate centers on a classic baseball dilemma: do you prioritize talent, even at potential cost to team culture? Castellanos, despite his issues, hit 17 home runs with 72 RBIs last season – production the power-starved Guardians could certainly use.
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Hoynes offered a pragmatic perspective that balanced both sides of the argument: “It all depends on the needs of the ball club. Would they go out tomorrow and sign Castellanos? I don’t think so. But let’s say he’s still out there at the deadline and they really need some offense. Maybe they would take a look at that.”
He also pointed to precedent, reminding listeners that Cleveland has taken chances on controversial personalities before: “In the past the Guardians have brought in guys like Yasiel Puig. He was certainly not a boy scout. But they dealt with him.”
The situation with Castellanos highlights a fascinating aspect of the Guardians’ organizational philosophy. While they’ve built a reputation for prioritizing character and clubhouse culture, they’ve occasionally made exceptions when desperate for production.
What makes this case particularly challenging is that playing time appears to be Castellanos’ hot button – exactly what has deterred other free agents from signing with Cleveland. His infamous dugout confrontation stemmed from being removed from a game, suggesting he expects to be an everyday player.
For now, Hoynes believes an immediate signing is unlikely, but he left the door open depending on how the season unfolds: “The big leagues is about talent, and if you think you can handle a guy, if you think he can help your ball club, if you think it’s not going to be too disruptive, then you make that decision. But right now I don’t see that happening.”
The Castellanos situation perfectly encapsulates the difficult balancing act between talent and temperament that every MLB front office faces. For the full breakdown of this fascinating debate and more insights on potential moves the Guardians might make, listen to the complete podcast episode.
Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s an AI-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Podcast Transcript
Joe Noga: Welcome back. Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. I’m Joe Noga joined by Paul Hoynes. Hoynsie, we’re getting close, getting close to the time where you, you kiss your wife and you tell her, see you in November. Heading off to spring training here in, in a few days. The Guardians, you know, getting ready for workouts. You know workouts are underway for the pitchers and catchers right now. The rest of the club reporting in that first full squad workout set for early next week. A little bit of movement here though before that. A familiar face returns to camp out at the Arizona complex in Goodyear. Ben Lively, right handed pitcher signs a two year minor league deal. Of course he underwent Tommy John surgery in June, but he’s going to take pretty much this season and continue to rehab. That injury could be available late in the year as an option but you know, the, the two year minor league deal makes it so that the, the Guardians have him in the fold and have him around and I’m sure that’s a, a welcome sight for a lot of guys in that clubhouse.
Paul Hoynes: Just a, a good dude really. I was kind of surprised Joe, when they, when they, you know, non tendered him or released him when they did but obviously it didn’t fracture the relationship. He re signed with them and just you know, by reading what he had to say yesterday, you know he, he, he felt comfortable in the Cleveland environment. He likes the rehab, you know, process with Cleveland. He likes the trainers, the doctors, the guys that are helping him get back on the mound. So yeah, just, just a good all around move, a feel good move.
Joe Noga: Well, and those trainers and those doctors and those guys who help pitchers who are recovering from Tommy John surgery get back on the mound, they’ve got a proven track record. You go back to Matthew Boyd, you go back to Shane Bieber. These are guys who have done their rehab and made themselves into viable options for other teams in terms of finding starting pitching there coming off of that Tommy John surgery. And the Guardians are, we’ve talked a lot about the reputation that they have for rehabbing pitchers and getting them back on their feet and it’s something that attracts guys to, to maybe sign here. We saw that last year with the left hander John Means who never really even got on the mound for Cleveland. But you know, this was a place that he wanted to come to because the reputation is out there. So it makes sense for Ben Lively. But also, you know, this is a guy who, who really did a lot for the Steven Vogt and this organization in 2024 when he basically rescued that rotation coming in, in his first year in Cleveland after. After dealing with a little bit of illness in camp, you know, he stabilized the rotation and helped them to the postseason.
Paul Hoynes: Oh, no doubt about it, Joe. They had a bunch of injuries in. In the rotation that year. Lively kind of comes out of nowhere. I think he signed for a big league deal, but it was, you know, just over the minimum after what he had pitched in Cincinnati. Cincinnati the year before. And he goes, what, 13 and 10, 3.81 ERA and 29 starts, 151 innings. Just did really a stabilizing force in that rotation and helped help them, you know, get to the postseason and win the division.
Joe Noga: Yeah, he had a couple of seasons in Korea prior to rejoining the Reds, and, you know, he really sort of got his legs under him and learned how to pitch. And aside from that, the personality, and we’ll talk about that in a little bit, but, you know, he’s. He’s a great guy to just interact with in the clubhouse. And a lot of the guys, I’m sure when they, when the Guardians made their trip to Arizona last year to play the. The Diamondbacks, a couple of guys who were rehabbing over in, in Goodyear at the time, you know, joined the Guardians on the bench. And we’re in the clubhouse during that series, and Ben Lively was one of them. And there were a lot of hugs and high fives and a lot of smiling faces to. To see Lively at that time. You know, the personality is a big reason why, and we’ll talk a little bit about that here in a bit, but obviously, you know, the, the number of pitchers now in camp grows once again with Ben Lively out there. But certainly he’s not a. An option maybe for the beginning of spring training or to make the opening day roster in any capacity.
Paul Hoynes: No, Joe, for sure. You know, the thing with Lively is his personality is so is he’s always stuck in fifth gear. You know, they’ve got. The key with him is to keep him under control so he doesn’t re injure that elbow and just to ease off the throttle, because he is, you know, he’s a over the top guy. He’s. He’s one of those guys that you’d like to. If you’re in trouble, you like, you want to follow him into that trouble. So know, they just got to get him to ease off and take the rehab process as. As it comes and not. Not force the issue.
Joe Noga: Right. Definitely. Speaking of taking things as they Come the latest development in the saga of a guy that we’ve talked about a couple of times on this podcast this off season, Nick Castellanos, in the final year of his contract with Philadelphia, owed $20 million. The Phillies went ahead and released him yesterday, unable to find a trade partner for the veteran slash designated hitter. And then the story comes out of, you know, one of the reasons maybe why Castellanos was released and how the relationship between Castellanos and the Phillies and manager Rob Thompson sort of soured last year. You know, it’s interesting sort of move there. You know, why don’t you take us through exactly what Castellanos admitted to as much, you know, after he was released.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, he wrote a letter yesterday that appeared on Instagram. I think it was like a 16 page letter, something like that. And part of the letter said, you know, after he got removed from a game against Miami last season, he went to the clubhouse, grabbed the beer and came out and back into the dugout and sat down, got into a confrontation argument with the coaching staff. Then he sat down next to the manager, Rob Thompson, and gave him an earful and told him what he thought of him and questioned why they would take him out when they didn’t really have that much experience in the big leagues. You know, he dropping the, you guys never made it to the big leagues and you’re taking me out like an everyday player for so many years. So, you know, that kind of, I would think that spoiled the relationship right there, Joe. He said he met with Dombrowski and, and Thompson after the game and apologized, but that kind of fractured things, I would think.
Joe Noga: Yeah, there’s, there’s some lines that, you know, once, once you cross them, you know which way things are going. It sort of reminds you of the, of the Trevor Bauer situation in Kansas City. You know, you knew at that moment after Trevor Bauer launched the ball over the, the center field wall that he had pretty much played his last game for Cleveland at the time. And you know, Castellano, maybe not the exact same similar circumstance, but the writing would be on the wall after that. As far as being unable to trade him or to line up to find a team that, you know, might, might be willing to take on his either $20 million salary or, or have Philly pay, pay down a part of that, you know, what do you think happened there? I’m sure that the, the Phillies tried to come, come up with, you know, partner there to, to try and match up because now no matter where he goes, he’s, he’s owed that $20 million.
Paul Hoynes: Well, you know, the, the Phillies are on the hook for the money. It was guaranteed money. You know, the, the team that, you know, picks up, Castellano s, or whoever signs him now would only pay the major, the major league minimum of that deal. So, you know, the money is, is, is, is the, the salary is, is Philly responsibility. So. But yeah, I mean, you know, I read where Dave Dombrowski has said they had a few nibbles but they could never get, you know, a deal done. You know, rather than just let this linger, they decided to cut bait, released them. You know, they’ll handle the rest of the money. And hopefully Castellanos, you know, I would think he’s 33 or he’ll play at 34 this year, so maybe somebody will pick him up. Joe, I don’t know if I would think somebody would give him a look. You know, he hit 17 home runs, drove in 72 runs last year. You know, so, you know, he’s, he’s a proven run producer. But, you know, now the cat is out of the bag as far as how he handles not being happy if he’s not an everyday player.
Joe Noga: And that’s, that’s sort of the thing there. The point where anybody, you know, thinking, hey, the Guardians might be able to, to swoop in and get him on a bargain. The playing time is what’s been sort of prohibitive for the Guardians with other free agents and guys who are available. And if playing time is sort of the knock here with Castellanos and something that he’s sort of looking for, that might not be the best situation, best fit for them. But we’ll, we’ll talk more about, you know, the sort of fit between Cleveland and Castellanos here in a bit because we’re going to get into some, some hey, Hoynsie questions are our favorite time of the week. These are reader submitted questions, listener submitted questions, guys who are people who are subscribed to our Guardians subtext. You can join by going to cleveland.com subtext and subscribing for 3.99amonth. You get text updates from Hoynsie and from me throughout the season. Hoynsie is going to be in Goodyear starting on Monday and he’s going to be filling up that subtext with a lot of good stuff and good information that only he can see because he’s out there and we’re all sitting behind the screen here waiting for all the latest guardians information. So cleveland.com subtext go ahead and join there. It’s a great time to join here right ahead of the spring training and Cactus League seasons. Hoynsie let’s jump into it and answer our first question of the day. This one coming from John Power from Lakewood, California. John says, hey, glad to see that the Guardians re signed Ben Lively. He’s a leader. Didn’t he also play a role in play the role of hero one day at a beach in Miami where there was some type of shark in the water playing dangerously close to a bunch of children. I have a feeling there’s a story there. Maybe you could remind us of what happened that day. Just, you know, trying to stay on topic here. What about Ben Lively’s he has a unique relationship with sharks. Hoynsie doesn’t he?
Paul Hoynes: He, he sure does. Joe the John was referring to a couple seasons ago the Guardians were playing, they were in Miami playing the Marlins and they had an off day I believe, after the Series. So, you know, a bunch of the families stayed in Miami before taking the trip to wherever they were going. And they were, they were on the beach at the hotel and there was a shark, a small shark, you know, just off the shore. And Lively spotted it and, you know, kind of was warning the, the other swimmers you might want to get out of the water. Here comes the sharks. Yeah, Lively’s dad, who I guess just passed away. JOE I was reading this this off season and he was a charter boat captain in, in Florida. And so Lively was familiar with sharks, all kinds of fish and you know, ocean fish and, you know, all kinds of, you know, you know, kind of that, that you know, what goes on in the ocean. And he told me last year that his, one of his goals, one of his goals was to swim with great white sharks. And that should tell you what a guy, what kind of guy he is right there.
Joe Noga: Yeah, that’s on his bucket list. And that might be the end of his bucket list if you things go the wrong way. He wants to swim with a great white shark. Obviously the shark that he warned this family about wasn’t necessarily like Jaws size. This was a smaller shark. But any shark is a dangerous shark. I, I learned that on Shark Week somewhere along the line. This just goes to, you know, the personality. This is the, this is the first guy you want to interview in the clubhouse afterwards when something happens because, because he’ll give you an unfiltered take. He’s, he’s always got a smile on his face. He’s very approachable. But get him out on the mound and Stephen Vogt will Tell you that he is an ultra competitive guy. This is, that’s one of the, one of the things that they liked about him. He doesn’t have the best stuff out of, and he didn’t have the best stuff out of anybody on that pitching staff or in that rotation. In 2024, there were guys who threw harder, there were guys that threw filthier pitches. But Ben Lively went out there and competed every day and wound up giving you five innings and keeping you in ball games. And that’s something that, you know, he might have learned how to do when he was over in Korea and after a failed first run at the big leagues before he went over to Korea, he’s been down the road before. And there’s a reason why the Guardians like this guy so much.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. And, you know, he doesn’t beat himself. When we watched him in 2024, Joe, he threw strikes, he challenged hitters, he didn’t walk a lot of guys. You know, he, he was, you could count on him for five innings, maybe six innings. Never wanted to come out of a game. So, yeah, he’s, he’s, he’s definitely, he’s got that kind of bulldog approach on the mound. And he really, like we said before, he, he really inspired that whole pitching staff and helped help the team win the division in 2024.
Joe Noga: All right, let’s go on to our next question. Our next hey, Hoynsie question. This one from Bill in Tennessee. Hey, Hoynsie, the Guardians were, are very protective of their clubhouse culture. Could this be another reason why they passed on a player like Nick Castellanos who has a bit of a reputation for being less subordinate, I guess is a good way of putting it, Bill. So, yeah, we just talked about this. And just to rehash the idea, Stephen Voets, a two time manager of the year and a big reason why is the clubhouse culture that, you know, even has carried over from Terry Francona. But, but this is, this is Stephen Vogt’s team. And this is a team that, you know, an environment that he has developed. And to introduce sort of an X factor at this point in the game, a veteran guy who could be, you know, sort of a crabby fellow in the corner if you let it happen. I don’t know if that’s the best thing I know. You know, 20 home runs and 80 plus RBI is, if you give him a chance, might be, you know, what he could produce. But is it worth it if the clubhouse around you is burning to the ground?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. You know, it’s an interesting Situation for sure. I think, you know, you look at that roster, you look at the offense, you look at the hitters on it, they could certainly use a veteran right handed power hitter and but like you said Joe, do you want to, do you want to, you know, at what cost I guess is. But you know, in the past, you know the Guardians have brought in guys like Yazziel, Yazio Puig, you know, certainly was not a boy scout and they’ve dealt with him. So I think it all depends on the need of the ball club. Would they go out tomorrow and sign Cassianos? I don’t think so, but let’s say he’s still out there at the deadline and they need, they really need some offense. Maybe, maybe they would take a look at that. I think it all the, you know, it all depends on the manager, the confidence of the manager, of controlling the clubhouse. I think Vogt is that kind of guy. So I wouldn’t, you know, talent, the big leagues is about talent and if you get, you know, if you can, if you think you can handle a guy, if you think he can help your ball club, if you think it’s not going to be too disruptive then, then you make that decision. But right now I don’t see that happening.
Joe Noga: Yeah, I, I don’t see it happening either. But again this is, that’s one option that’s out there right now. I guess if, if they were sincere, maybe the osseopuig thing, maybe they, they realize they, they’ve done this in the past and it hasn’t worked out. So maybe that’s one of the reasons why you haven’t seen them swoop in yet. So we’ll keep an eye on any developments there. Steve from top Carolina, he said, hey Hoynsie, I believe the guards want to get through spring training healthy and then make a move that will involve trading one of their surplus arms for a major league right handed bat from one of several pitching deprived clubs. What do you think this from Steve again? Yeah, we’ve been talking about this all off season trade route is, is something that’s available to them because going out and signing a top line free agent isn’t necessarily something that this, this club is, is able to do. Know what do you think of Steve’s proposal there? And it doesn’t give you a, it doesn’t list very many options or any names or anything like that. But is that something that you could see happening or are they pretty much set and heading into the season with the young roster that they have Yeah.
Paul Hoynes: I think they want to get, like Steve said, he wants to get through spring training healthy, see if they, six or seven starters can get through that, get through the next six weeks healthy. And then maybe you, you make a move somewhere, you know, be, you know, not, not in the first two months, I don’t think, unless there’s an injury. You want to see how your rotation settles in the first six, seven weeks of the season. But if, if you, depending how the club is playing, you know, you get, you bump up against the trade deadline in August, you know, then, then maybe you take a look at it right now, I’d be surprised if they did it because, you know, they’ve learned, it seems like they, they’ve learned over the past you can never have too much pitching. You know, we were just talking about 20, 24 when they had a bunch of injuries and they were scrambling to get that rotation back together again.
Joe Noga: Yeah. All right, next question. Hey, Hoins, this is from Pat Gritchick in Garfield Heights. Hey, Hoynesi, if Luis Ortiz is not under contract for this season, is he a free agent? How is he under team control? I believe now that he’s on the restricted list, basically nothing’s happening. He’s, he’s not accruing major league service time or, or anything like that.
Paul Hoynes: He can’t be traded. He doesn’t count on a 40 man roster, but I’m almost sure he can’t be a free agent. He’s not eligible for free agency unless they just outright released him because he doesn’t have enough service time. He wasn’t even eligible for arbitration. You know, I think depending on what happens in, you know, on the criminal charges that he’s been, you know, that he faces and the mlb, potential MLB penalties he faces, we’ll have to see how he, how he comes out the other end of that because right now he’s got a lot more, more on his plate than figuring out if he’s a free agent or not.
Joe Noga: Greg Ueland writes in and he says, hey, Hoinse, the Guardians have had good relief pitching most years. Most of the guys seem to be on short term contracts and then are not resigned. The team rebuilds its bullpen every year. His question is why do they not keep guys like Jacob Junas who do well instead of the annual Reb. Is it a money thing? And yeah, I think you’re, you’re kind of onto something there, Greg, because guys like Colby Allard and Pedro Avila, guys who they like have, have come back to the organization just on minor League deals and it’s a way to keep costs down, it’s a way to control costs. So I think there might be something to that. Hoynsi.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think so. And I think, you know, the bullpen is probably the most volatile part of any ball club. Even if you bring back the same guys every year, you run the risk of, you know, a guy you know, just being over in the previous couple seasons. So it’s good to keep churning that, that Ross, that bullpen bringing new arms. But I was a little surprised at, at Jacob Junas. I mean he had a great year for him last year. I think they only paid him what like 4, 4.5 million and then he signs with Texas a 1 year, 4 point million, $4 million deal. So I, you know, I, I don’t know, maybe they liked a guy like Sean Armstrong better than Junas, I’m not sure. But as, as every executive said, there’s no such thing as a bad one year deal. So I think the Guardians obviously have a core, you know, three or four guys in that bullpen that are, you know, are, will be eventually eligible for arbitration but aren’t, you know, are still under team control. But then they mix and match with a bunch of, you know, you know, free agents that are on one year deals.
Joe Noga: Yeah, it seems more and more like the, the consistency or the guys that you see coming back or being, bringing back every year are more guys the, the closer and the seventh, eighth, ninth, you know, inning setup guys as opposed to the middle relievers. Those to be more, there seem to be more turnover in that role and, and the utility knife guys who can, can pitch in in multiple different roles. Those guys seem to come and go a little bit more often. But again, some of these are familiar faces that the Guardians are bringing back because they’re guys that have done well in the past. So. All right, last one, this one comes from Frank G. And he says, hey Hoynsie. I still don’t understand how the Guardians brain trust bypassed Nick K in last year’s draft. This team has a desperate need for power hitting and a first baseman to replace Josh Naylor. Kurtz should have been the obvious choice. And it’s easy to say that in hindsight, in, in, in retrospect, I guess Kurtz going out and having an outstanding season winning rookie of the year hitting home runs all over the ballpark. But you didn’t know for sure that that was going to happen when he was at Wake Forest and in the 2024 draft. And Travis Bazzana looked Like as much of a sure as the thing as anybody in that draft. Injuries have taken him a different direction so far, and Kurtz has been healthy and he’s gotten to the big leagues and, and produced. But, you know, give it a year, maybe we’ll be talking about the same way. Right, Joe?
Paul Hoynes: It, you know, it really, it really is, you know, kind of a roll of the dice. The first four picks in the 2024 draft were Bazzana, Chase Burns, Harley Condon, and Kurtz. You know, Kurtz, you know, had the breakout year. He, he was coming out of Wake Forest. You know, there was some question. He had a shoulder injury early in his, you know, in his season at Wake Forest that kind of took him back. He made. May have taken a step back just in some team’s eyes in, in the draft, but then, you know, he came on strong. But, you know, I, I don’t know. You know, I was looking at the first picks in the, in the draft. In the amateur draft, there’s only been three first basemen that were taken in number one overall since the draft started in, I believe, 67. So, you know, Adrian Gonzalez, Harold Baines and Ron Bloomberg were the, were the three first basemen that were the number one overall picks. So, you know, if you look at how the Guardians draft and sign players, you know, they usually go for a more athletic type of player, middle of the diamond player. Bazzana is a second baseman. I mean, I don’t know if that. That played into it or not, but, you know, there. We’ll have to see how this full unfolds. But right now, Nick Kurtz is the clubhouse leader because as Frank said, he did everything last season for the A’s and everything that the Guardians were missing.
Joe Noga: Yeah, and you mentioned those three guys, Gonzalez, Baines and Bloomberg. At least one of them is in the hall of Fame. So, I mean, there’s something to it. Yeah. Obviously, if you look back, who would you pick against top of that draft? Just knowing that Nick Kurtz was able to do what he did, I think he’s the obvious pick. But you don’t know. There’s. There’s still time. Jack Caglion could be a guy who could come out and, you know, produce as well in Kansas City. So we’ll see. Give it time. Give a couple more years here, Frank, before we decide to call shenanigans. All right, that’s going to do it for this week on the Cleveland Base Baseball Talk podcast. Next week, we’ll be joining you from Goodyear. Arizona will be out there and taking your questions, and we’ll. We’ll check in with you then.