CLEVELAND, Ohio — When the Guardians announced their Cactus League rotation for this weekend’s split-squad openers, it wasn’t just a procedural spring training update. It was the opening bell for what promises to be one of the most consequential position battles in Cleveland’s camp: the race for rotation spots. At the center of this competition stands Joey Cantillo, the laid-back Hawaii native and lefty whose demeanor masks a fierce competitor armed with what might be baseball’s most deceptive changeup.
“Vogt is in love with that changeup. He says it’s one best in the big leagues,” revealed Paul Hoynes, cleveland.com Guardians beat reporter, during a recent Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. “He calls it a stop pitch. He said it seems like Cantillo’s changeup just stops in midair and drops and the hitters really have a hard time adjusting to it.”
That pitch has become Cantillo’s calling card, but it’s not just his arsenal that’s impressed Cleveland’s manager. What truly set Cantillo apart during a 2025 season filled with organizational shuffle was his professionalism in handling circumstances that might have rattled other young players.
“He was really impressed that Cantillo never really complained. He never really argued with the decisions the coaching staff made. He just put his head down and went to work,” Hoynes said of Vogt’s assessment.
That work ethic was tested repeatedly last season. After making the club out of spring training as a reliever, Cantillo was eventually moved into the rotation, then sent down to Columbus to get stretched out. Just days later, when Luis Ortiz was placed on administrative leave (later revealed to be related to a betting scandal), Cantillo was immediately recalled.
The organizational pinball continued when he was later optioned again to make room for prospect Parker Messick, before ultimately returning to help anchor a six-man rotation that clinched the AL Central title in September. Through it all, Cantillo never wavered, eventually earning American League Rookie of the Month honors.
The statistics back up the eye test. In 95⅓ innings across 34 appearances (including 13 starts), Cantillo struck out 108 batters while holding opponents to a .218 batting average. His fastball-changeup combo proved particularly effective, with both pitches looking identical coming out of his hand before taking dramatically different paths.
“I think he’s going to have a great shot to make this club one way or the other because he’s out of options,” Hoynes noted. “But I would think he’s got a leg up on that, on that race for the rotation.”
That lack of minor league options adds another layer of intrigue to Cantillo’s spring. Unlike some competitors for rotation spots, the Guardians can’t simply stash him in Columbus if he doesn’t make the starting five. It’s major league roster or potentially losing him to another organization.
As Cactus League play begins this weekend with Cantillo taking the ball for one of the split-squad games, all eyes will be on the southpaw with the mystifying “stop pitch.” With his combination of talent, temperament and roster circumstances, the rotation spot appears increasingly his to lose.
Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s an AI-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Podcast Transcript
Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes. Hoynsie, it’s Fat Tuesday, and the Guardians are getting ready for their first full squad workout. The big speech that Steven Vogt usually gives before the, the first full squad workout and then getting right to it. Today’s the big day. What’s, what’s the temperature out there in Arizona?
Paul Hoynes: It was a little cool yesterday, Joe, but it’s coming from Cleveland. It was like a heat wave. Everybody, everybody who’s been out here, excuse me, said, you know, they were, they were a little shocked that I brought the cold weather with them. So I was getting, I was getting so much sideways, sideways glances from a lot of people.
Joe Noga: Nothing heats up the camp like a good battle for a spot in the rotation. And two of the main guys competing for a couple of those spots in the starting rotation, Logan Allen and Joey Cantillo, announced on Monday as the guys that will start the the split squad games that open Cactus League play for the Guardians at the end of this week.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, the, the opener is Saturday. Steven Vogt said, as you did, Joe, that Logan Allen and Joey Cantillo will start those games. They haven’t decided which games, which guy will pitch which game, but Vote is going to go to Phoenix to watch to the Brewers. So I, I would imagine. I, I don’t know. I guess we’ll, we’ll, we’ll have to wait and see how that goes. But yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, there’s six PR in camp for five spots and Logan Allen and Cantillo are two of them. And you, Joe Vote, really was impressed with what Cantillo did last season.
Joe Noga: Yeah, Joey Cantillo, a season of not necessarily ups and downs, more like backs and forths. You know, he, he started the, made the club out of spring training, out of the bullpen, eventually worked his way into the rotation, got sent down to Columbus to get stretched out a couple of times to, to do that. But, you know, by the time he made and settled in, he actually earned American League Rookie of the Month honors in September last year. Just what’s, what was Votes saying about Cantillo and the way he handled all of the things that were thrown at him sort of last season, Joe, he.
Paul Hoynes: Was really impressed that Cantillo never really complained. He never really argued with the decisions the coaching staff made. He just put his head down and went to work. He gets sent down on June 27 to get stretched out like you were saying. Then on July 3rd, Luis Ortiz gets banged with the put on, put on non disciplinary leave because. Which eventually turns into the betting scandal and Cantillo’s called up right back to step into the rotation again. And you know, he handled that well and as you said, then he gets sent down again so they can get a look at Parker Messick and then he comes back and is part of that six man rotation in September that, you know, clinched the AL Central for the Guardians. He’s definitely made a good impression last season and Joe, I think he’s going to have a great shot to make this club one way or the other because he’s out of options. But I would think he’s got a leg up on that, on that race for the rotation.
Joe Noga: And you talked about, you know, having the right attitude. The kind of guy who was sort of just put his head down and go to work. You get that really chill vibe from him being a Hawaii native. I think he’s just really low key. The, the impression that you get from when you talk to him is, you know, there’s a, there’s a confidence there, but definitely a guy who things kind of slow down for him and he sees the sort of the big picture there and understood why he was being sent up and sent down and where the opportunities would be and then really just did take advantage of them throughout the season. What do you like about Joey Cantillo and, and just his makeup and what his arsenal is. It’s that change up that really is the difference maker for him.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Vogt is in love with that change up. Says it’s one best in the big leagues. He calls it a stop pitch. He said it seems like Cantillo’s changeup just stops in midair and drops and the hitters, you know, really have a hard time adjusting to it. And then that sets him up for the fastball because coming out of Cantillo’s hand, both pitches, the fastball and the changeup look alike. Joe, in 95 and a third innings last season, he strikes out 108 batters. The opposition hits 218 against him. And that’s what in 34 appearances, including 13 starts, you know, he’s kind of, you know, he was in and out of the rotation and in the 26 man roster so much he kind of, you know, lost sight of just what he did.
Joe Noga: Yeah, and I think that they want him to be a starter. I think that the long range sort of vision for the of Cantillo is as a starter. But like you said, however, he’s going to be able to contribute to this club in particular. I really do think that he’s got a good, strong chance of breaking camp with the club as long as he stays healthy. The other, the other two guys he’s competing with there in Parker, Messick and Logan, you know, all things being equal between the three of them, I think he’s the one with the highest ceiling out of any of them. So we’ll, we’ll see what, what, what comes down with that. As far as Cantillo, name another guy in camp. You know, talk about high ceilings. This is a guy whose ceiling we haven’t even been able to sort of gauge yet in Daniel Espino. He’s out there throwing live batting practice and looking healthy for the first time in several years. Was. What did you gather about Daniel Espino while you’re out there?
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Espino saw a live BP session yesterday. We talked to him after the game or after the workout. Very excited. You know, this is a guy that Joe, like you were saying, really hasn’t pitched, you know, full time at any level since 2021 because of knee and shoulder injuries and just, you know, he just hasn’t been on the mound. He talked about how emotional it was to make, finally make a start last season for Columbus. Pitched an inning, you know, first really official game since 2021. His family came up from Panama, really, and he, you know, he’s, I think it dawned on him that he can still do this job, Joe, that he can still pitch, that he’s still got the, the great velocity, you know, he’s throwing 99 to 100, you know, and we, we asked him, do you compare yourself to the guy in 2021? And he goes, I’m, I’m done comp. You know, I don’t compare myself. I don’t look back on, on what I, what I, what kind of pitcher I was before. I’m just concentrating, you know, on the present. And I think if he stays healthy, Joe, there’s a chance he could, you know, make his big league debut sometime this season. He says he thinks about it every day driving to the facility. He thinks about what his walk up music would be. So this is an engaging guy. This is really the first time I’ve ever talked to him. Joe Torres, the assistant pitching coach, came into the press room and was just talking to some of the reporters and he said, this is, this is the kind of kid, you know, that, that you would adopt Daniel Espino. He said if you had a daughter, you’d want her to marry this guy. This, this is, you know, this is the kind of reverence that this guy’s held in, in the organization. And when, when he made that start for Columbus last season, the Guardians were in Minnesota getting ready to play the Twins. And he said everybody in the coaching staff and, and a lot of the players were watching the game, you know, on, on, you know, they’re on the WI Fi, you know, just because he, you know, he’s made such a good impression on the organization and just how he’s never stopped working that he’s, he’s always, you know, hasn’t been discouraged and has kept, you know, grinding away until hopefully he, he’s back now and it stays healthy, takes shape about his big league debut. I mean, he’s got to go pitch somewhere. He’s got to build up, you know, and accumulate some innings.
Joe Noga: Yeah, there’s, there’s two factors there. There’s the, the building up physically to be able to, to get through a couple of innings. Because in the, you make your big league debut, it’s not just going to be a, a one inning start like you would in the, the fall league where things are a little more controlled. They’re going to need you to be able to go out there and throw a few innings. Secondly, there’s, there’s actually got to be some development between, you know, now and whenever he’s able to make a debut there. He really hasn’t had that over the last four years because it’s all been just about getting back on the mound and being able to throw physically. Now you’ve got to go out there and be able to, you know, quickly develop and learn the skills and the knowledge that you’re going to need to take to the mound in a big league game. You can’t go out there and just be raw. 99 will get you, you know, a few outs in a, in an outing, but it won’t get you through against major league hitting. So Daniel Espino, you know, it’s, it’s the same old thing. You know, we’re waiting and we need time, but now that time is just going to be for development purposes as opposed to, you know, is he, is he physically able and is he bouncing back and recovering the way he should because of injuries? So Joe, Joe, that those are great.
Paul Hoynes: Points because he was talking about that, you know, he goes, you know, once you get back to the mound where he is now, you, you’ve got to start thinking about pitching again, holding runners, getting ground balls, you know, just the things, you know, field in Your position, you know, and you said, you know, I’ve been so, you know, focused on just, you know, getting healthy, that you kind of, you know, those, those secondary parts of the job kind of, you forget about them. And so that’s, that has to be sharpened as well.
Joe Noga: Yeah, there’s a, there’s a development phase there that needs to be accelerated now as well. And, and hopefully that doesn’t cost him in terms of injury or loss in that way either. So we will keep an eye on Daniel Espino’s development in camp as things go on. But certainly a great sign that he’s, he’s out there throwing batting practice and is healthy for the first time in, in many years. Speaking of guys that we would like to see stay healthy over the next couple of weeks, guys like Logan Allen, Stuart Fairchild, Travis Bazzana getting ready to, to sort of make their, you know, early camp debuts so that they can be ready and head off to their World Baseball Classic teams. These are guys who are going to see a lot of action early. Right.
Paul Hoynes: You know, Stephen Vogt was talking about that yesterday, said they want to get these guys, you know, as much, you know, as many at bats, as much as many innings pitched. So they are ready to go into competition. Allen will go, will pitch for Panama in Puerto Rico. I think that’s like March, that’s when the pool play in Puerto Rico starts.
Joe Noga: They want to get him built up to about 60 pitches.
Paul Hoynes: Right, right, right. Definitely that’s one of the reasons he’s starting Saturday, just to get him on that track. And he’s been, you know, he came to camp early, so I think he’s in a pretty good spot. Bazzana and Fairchild are going to have to leave first, you know, early March to join their teams, Australia for Banana and Chinese Taipei for Fairchild. And they’re going to start pool play at the Tokyo Dome in Japan. Joe. So they’ve got a long way, they’ve got a long way to go. So you know, votes said these guys are going to. Bazana and Fairchild are going to be getting a lot of at bats just to, you know, give, give them to make sure they’re ready for that kind of competition. You know, Fairchild is a guy, you know, one of the rare guys that they brought into camp on a rare right handed hitter. Joe, on this team they brought in a into camp on a minor league deal. They vote said they targeted him very early. You know, he’s a kind of a, he’s been around, he’s pitched. I mean, he’s played in the big leagues and play all three outfield positions. He can run a little bit. So you know a guy that could at some point help them this season.
Joe Noga: Yeah. Do you think, you know when we can get into the whole numbers game with the outfield and all that. But the way that, that Stephen Vogt is, is talking about Stuart Fairchild, it just feels like he’s a guy who at some point is going to get a shot to play in a, in the big leagues for the Guardians this season.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think so Joe. I guess it depends. There’s two, two ways of looking at this. Does he make the team out of the spring training? You know, is as kind of a bench guy like a fourth or fifth outfielder, a platoon guy or does he agree to maybe start the season at Triple-A Columbus and then comes up when they need him. So you know he didn’t play a whole lot last season. He was injured, played a few games with Arizona, I mean Atlanta. So he’s a guy but you know he does have the kind of experience they want. And plus Joey, he’s a right handed hitter and this and this is a left handed world for the Guardians right now. Everybody seems to hit left handed so they need some balance.
Joe Noga: Yeah, that’s sort of the, the other side of the coin there with Fairchild is he is a right handed hitter. The Guardians are so heavy. Not just, you know, the current 26 man roster throughout the organization really if you look at down into the minors, all their top prospects are left handed hitters as well. They need to balance the lineup sometimes and Fairchild will give them an opportunity to do. If you were to make the, the opening day roster, that would mean a guy like a George Valera might, might have to open the season in Triple-A and you know, I don’t know they want to do that or you might have to move a guy like a Nolan Jones. So those are, you know, decisions for camp now it’s more like let’s see what Fairchild has to offer and get to know him that way. But this is a guy who’s been around. I mean he was in Red’s camp for a while so the organization is at least familiar with him and has seen his face before.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, he’s got three years of service time before playing with Atlanta last season he spent you know, two, two seasons with the Reds. He’s played with Seattle, he’s played with Arizona. So you know, like you said, he’s been around. He’s an experienced guy. They, you know, they brought him in for a reason and you know, usually when you bring in one of these guys, a veteran guy like that, he, his chances of making the club one way or the other are pretty good.
Joe Noga: Yeah. And you know, what are, you know, Vogt’s impressions? Did you talk to him at all about Steven Vogt, say anything about Stuart Fairchild and what. Yeah, yeah.
Paul Hoynes: He said, you know, that, that they had target. They had, you know, targeted and targeted him early in the off season, that this is a guy they wanted, that he’s, it was important that he plays all three outfield positions and he’s a, you know, he’s really good in center field. I think that’s where he’s got most of his experience. And as you know, Joe, in center field, there’s a cast of thousands out there and most of, most of them are right, our left handed hitters. Maybe Angel Martinez will help out, you know, in center field. But right now, Jones or DeLauter maybe the front runners in center field and they’re going to need somebody to, you know, on when in days when they’re facing lefties, they’re going to balance that lineup out and that’s, that’s fair. Fairchild’s chance.
Joe Noga: Yeah. I was surprised when I saw that Angel Martinez had, had started what, 87 games in center field last year. That seemed like a lot to me. I was like, wow, you know, looking back. But he was out there for a good chunk of the season. And Jones, I think Jones can play center field, but I think right field is more of a natural position for him with the, the arm that he has. It’d be, it’d be good to see a, you know, a natural center fielder guy like Fairchild out there and see what he, he can do. They really, really haven’t had a natural center fielder since Miles Straw was out there patrolling the outfield. So definitely a move you want to keep an eye on there. How fair trial develops. What’s on the agenda for, for today? Hoynsie, when you, you get to camp, a lot, a lot of stuff going on for the first time officially today.
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. You know, this is the first full squad workout. I do not think Vote is going to give us, you know, his whole organizational speech today. It might be a couple and it might be a little later in this week. I’m not sure about that. But they were supposed to talk to MLBPA, was supposed to make their annual, their, their spring visit to the Guardians and talk to them, you know, about, I would imagine about the upcoming labor negotiations on the basic agreement which expires after the 2026 season. But they, they had, they had a scheduling conflict and had to cancel that. So, you know, Vogt is talking to the media a little earlier today. I mean, at, at 9:50 today, Arizona time. And they will go from there and then they’ll have, you know, the full squad workout. Everyone is in camp. Jose Ramirez showed up. I think on Sundays. Everybody’s ready to go. Joe. I mean, these guys have been here for a few weeks. It looks, you know, the, the whole, the complex is there’s ballplayers everywhere. They’re running all over the place. So I think it’s, they’re ready to take the next step. You know, that’s full squad workout and then the next step is, you know, starting to play games on Saturday.
Joe Noga: Did you come across or run into Tony Arnerich? The, the new bench coach out there is the Stephen Vogue body double.
Paul Hoynes: Oh my God. I saw him, Joe, and I, I was going to go up and, and say, what’s up? What’s up, voter? It’s unbelievable. From behind, I mean, the sideways it looks just, I mean they’re like twins. You know, I couldn’t believe that. It was like, it’s startling. You know, you find yourself, wow, you know, what’s Vote doing over there? But I guess, you know, he’s going to manage one team on Saturday and Vote will manage the other team.
Joe Noga: Man, I cannot wait until mid season and Vote gets tossed from a game and then they pull the, the Bobby Valentine. Yeah, they just switch jerseys up the tunnel and, and he comes back out there, you know, with sunglasses on or something. It would be just perfect. It would be the story of the year. But yeah, that, something fun to. Any other changes, anything new out there in Arizona? What do you think of the, the new spring training ball caps that have the cactus on the logo? I thought that was kind of interesting. But you know, anything different out there at the complex that, you know, it changed from last year that you see.
Paul Hoynes: Noticed something, you know, in the bullpen stuff, they have like a bullpen area where there’s like six mounds on the pitchers are. That’s where they do their bullpen sessions. In the middle of that at home plate, they’ve got, you know, two kind of posts stretched across, you know, in front of the plate with rope tied horizontally from one post to the other. The rope can, you can move the rope up and down to assimilate the different strike zones that, that the hitters are going to have because of abs and it’s, you know, this gives the pitchers a chance. Okay. If I’ve got to throw a high strike. This is, this is where it’s going to be. Or a lower strike that, you know, this is where it’s going to be. It was, it was kind of interesting.
Joe Noga: Yeah. The, you know, it only measures up and down. It doesn’t measure in and out because obviously the outside corner, the inside corner are, you know, they’re on the plate that, you know, the ropes would measure the height of the, the hitter. A lot of the guys are getting measured officially for, for their height, I guess, right now so that they can be accurately entered into the system. For ABS, it takes like 73% of their height for the top of the zone and like 20 some percent of their height for the, the bottom of the zone. And then puts that into a computer program and that’s, that’s where you get that box for the strike zone on each, each player. So interesting. They’re using posts and ropes to sort of simulate that at the, on the, the practice mounds. Hoynsie, the ABS system is coming and we’re definitely going to be talking about that coming up, you know, in the next, definitely in the next few weeks. As we get closer to the season, it becomes more of a reality.
Paul Hoynes: But I thought it went pretty training last year. It was a little, you know, kind of, kind of snarled the game a little bit, you know, the first few spring training games. But then I think people got used to it, got into a rhythm with it. But, you know, Vogt said, you know, he told players last year, just play with it because it’s not going to be implemented in, in the 2025 season. But now they’re taking it a lot more serious. And of course, you know, a lot of the AAA guys have had this, have dealt with this for two, for the last couple years. So they’re, they’re, they’re used to it. Vogt said he’s talked Andy Tracy a lot at the, the manager at Columbus on the strategy of using it. It’s going to be, it’s be to going, we’ll see it unfold, you know, kind of game by game. But that’s going to be an interesting part of the spring.
Joe Noga: Yeah, starting, starting at the end of this week when, when games start picking up, I guess it’s, it’s full go time because now you’re not just experimenting with it and playing around with it. You’re, you’re actually sort of using your strategies that you’re going to use in games and applying those that you’ve developed all winter so it should be fun to see the difference in how the. The Guardians approach all that. All right, homies, that’s going to wrap up today’s edition of the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. Plenty more news coming out of Arizona as the week unfolds. And you’ll be there to bring it to us. We’ll talk to you again tomorrow.
Paul Hoynes: Good deal, Joe.