CLEVELAND, Ohio — When Jazz Chisholm stepped into the batter’s box against Cleveland’s Tanner Bibee during Tuesday night’s game in the Bronx, what followed was the type of pivotal moment that baseball’s forthcoming Automated Ball-Strike (ABS) challenge system was designed to address.
A borderline pitch that appeared to catch the zone was called a ball. Chisholm remained at the plate, eventually singled, and the Yankees’ scoring began – potentially altering the entire trajectory of the game.
“That pitch probably would have been one that if the Guardians had the ability to challenge it, they would have used one right then and there,” Joe Noga explained on the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast.
This exact scenario illustrates why Major League Baseball is moving toward implementing the ABS challenge system league-wide in 2026. After experimental phases in spring training and the minor leagues, the technology promises to “get it right” in critical moments.
“That’s why replay is here,” Paul Hoynes noted. “That’s why baseball is into this replay era, to get the calls right so the umpires aren’t embarrassed and the teams don’t get wronged in critical situations.”
During spring training, the Guardians got their first taste of the ABS system at Goodyear Ballpark. Hoynes witnessed firsthand how players, managers, and fans adapted to the new technology.
“It was cool because they showed it immediately on the scoreboard, whether the pitch was a strike or a ball, and there was no argument and play continued,” Hoynes recalled. “But early on it seemed to get in the way of the rhythm of the game.”
Despite these initial adjustments, the reception from players – particularly those most directly affected – was overwhelmingly positive.
“When you talk to the pitchers, you talk to the hitters, you talk to the catchers especially. They really like the system,” Hoynes observed.
The spring training experimental version allowed teams two challenges per game, with successful challenges being retained. However, this limited allotment raises strategic questions about when teams should deploy their challenges.
“You want to save one for a critical time at the end of the game,” Noga said.
The host proposed a potential enhancement: “Let’s say after the eighth inning you get an extra challenge or each team gets an additional challenge after the eighth inning because that’s when the majority of the impactful calls are going to be made.”
The system’s implementation has already created unusual moments. During a recent Astros-Rays game, Tampa Bay’s Taylor Walls was ejected for tapping the top of his helmet after a disputed call – the same gesture used during spring training to signal an ABS challenge.
The incident highlights how players, particularly those who have experienced the system in the minors, are ready for its implementation. “These guys are ready for this system to be implemented,” Noga suggested. “They’ve been experimenting with in the minors for the last couple of years. So as these new guys come into the league, they’re accustomed to it already.”
For Cleveland and teams across MLB, the ABS challenge system represents another evolution in baseball’s relationship with technology. While purists may lament the further reduction of the “human element,” the ability to correct potentially game-changing calls offers undeniable appeal.
As the possible 2026 implementation approaches, the questions shift from “if” to “how” – how many challenges will teams receive, when will they use them, and ultimately, how will this technology reshape baseball’s most consequential moments?
Note: Artificial intelligence was used to help generate this story from the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast by cleveland.com. Visitors to cleveland.com have asked for more text stories based on website podcast discussions.
Podcast transcript
Joe Noga 0:04Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes. Hoynes. The Guardians shut out the Yankees for nothing. Bounce back in the series in the Bronx to even it at one apiece. Just an outstanding day for Luis Ortiz.He pitches into the 6th inning and doesn’t allow a run. Just looked like he was. It looked like he was having fun out there. The the fastball was was moving all over the place and he was getting just such, you know, great late life on that pitch, you know, piling up strikeouts.Outs challenging that Yankees lineup just like looked like he was having a good time on the mound.
Paul Hoynes 0:47Yeah, he really pitched well, Joe. 5 and 2 thirds, three hits, didn’t give up a run, 3 strikeouts, 77, I mean three walks, 7 strikeouts, 92 pitches, completely different pitcher than he was the first time he saw the Yankees in April. But.You know, Joe, he, I think he was building off that loss to the Angels over the weekend when, you know, he really pitched well and and ends up losing, you know, 4 to one to the Angels. I thought he did. You know, in that game he goes 6-6 innings, gives up one run, strikes out five.And walks too. So maybe we’re starting to see him put some good starts together and that would be, you know, really a welcome addition to this rotation.
Joe Noga 1:37Yeah, and that’s one of the things that that Stephen Vogt talks about is and not just having. He knows that the guys in the rotation have the ability to go out there and and give these performances like Luis Ortiz and and Tanner Bybee the night before. It’s the consistency and being able to string.You know two or three of these kind of outings back-to-back and and put them together. That’s the next sort of level of that development at the Major League level that these guys you know need to take and and we saw something out of Stephen Vogt last night when you know Ortiz up there around that.That 95 to, you know, late 90s pitch count in the 6th inning and as soon as a base runner got on base, it was time for him to go. They had somebody ready in the bullpen with even with you know, you know, a good leader, I believe a three run lead at the time.They went and got the the arm out of the pen because he sort of learned his lesson from leaving Tanner Bybee in for maybe a batter or two too long on two on Tuesday night.
Paul Hoynes 2:47Yeah, in the 6th inning, Aaron Judge reaches on a a single through the middle off of Daniel Schneeman’s glove. There’s two. I mean, there’s two outs. You know, Jose Ramirez had just turned that unbelievable 53 double play and as soon as Judge got on base.You know, a vote went to a lefty Tim Herron to face, you know, in a lefty lefty match up with Bellinger. Yeah, Joe, I don’t know if. I think he was pretty adamant that he felt he made the right call Tuesday night by sending Bobby out for the 7th inning. But you know.You know, once, once bitten, twice shy. What’s what’s the saying? So let’s I think he probably, I think you’re right. He probably did, you know, was looking at the situation and knew the bullpen was was ready and just, you know, went with his gut there.
Joe Noga 3:32Well.But but both things can be true, right? He can be, you know, adamant about, hey, I made the right call to send him out for the 7th inning. But you know, also it can also be true that he left him in maybe a batter or two too long after he gives up the lead off home run in the 7th. You know, Bobby on Tuesday, you probably.Should have been time to go and get him at that point, but he leaves him in long enough to give up another home run right there. So yeah, I don’t know. He probably, you know, had it in that recency of the the situation in his mind and didn’t want to see them the Yankees strike at that.That moment, you know, turned something into a bigger inning than it was. Then he went and got the, you know, he went and made the change and and they got out of the inning Wednesday night and and things worked out. I think, you know, going going to Tim Herron in that situation, you’ve seen him do it, you know, a bunch of times.He’s got a lot of confidence in Herron to come in in any situation and and you know be effective right now and you know he picks up his 9th hold by going and inning in a third there and and you know really contributing to that that shutout for the the bullpen as well.
Paul Hoynes 5:02Yeah.Yeah, first shut out by Cleveland at Yankee Stadium since since Corey Kluber and the boys did it in 2014. In that game, Joe, Jose Ramirez was playing shortstop. So that’s how long ago that was. So you know, big, you know, really.
Joe Noga 5:17Oh, wow.
Paul Hoynes 5:23A big, big effort by the pitching staff Ortiz and then Herron, Gaddis and Emmanuel Class A slams the door. So really a strong performance by by the the entire staff right there.
Joe Noga 5:37What what have we seen out of the the starting rotation just in the last you know maybe two or three turns through that’s you know giving you the the you know any sort of indication as to them being in the trending in the right direction.
Paul Hoynes 5:55Joe, I think you know they’re getting deeper into the games. They’re they’re they’re pitching, you know, this especially this last turn through the rotation. I thought that they really pitched really well to us, you know, start by Ortiz, start by.By Bybe, then Williams over the weekend. That was really encouraging to see those guys, you know, just put those starts together. Williams has had, you know, I think two really quality starts. Ortiz the same. Bybe has has been a little up and down, but he pitched really well.Against.Yankees on Tuesday, only to lose. And it just looks to me like they’re coming around, Joe. They’re they’re they’re for the last last three turns through the rotation. They’ve got an ERA, you know, under four as opposed to, you know, when they open the season in in April and March, it was 4.4.8 around there. So it’s come down. It looks like you know they’re they’re getting their feet underneath them. You’ve got Sacconi working in to the rotation now and you’ve all go also got the you know the the possibility of Shane Bieber joining this rotation.Sometime near the in early June or early to mid June I guess.
Joe Noga 7:17Yeah, and and if that happens, you know, obviously Beaver’s not going to be able to go very deep into games. Once he comes back, he’s going to be on a a pitch count, a pitch limit, much like they they were with Matthew Boyd at the very beginning of his, you know, joining the club.
Paul Hoynes 7:25So.It.
Joe Noga 7:33Last year. So you know, things will change with the addition of Beaver, but that’s a couple of weeks off. Still, at least he’s making his what rehab start in Akron tomorrow night and then they’ll they’ll take it the next step in the next week from there. You know, it’s nice because it it gives.Us a post every time that he a story opportunity, every time he makes a start there because the next step is always a big piece of news for him. So we’ll keep an eye on that. Speaking of sort of facing down your demons and making things right.Right, I guess getting back on track. Emmanuel Class A wasn’t a safe situation because of the Kyle Manzardo home run that pushed it to a four run lead last night. But Class A comes in in the 9th and gives up a couple of base runners, puts a couple of guys on.But navigates the inning and then even gets what I believe a strikeout against Aaron Judge. He got Judge on 4 pitches, striking him out with a slider.
Paul Hoynes 8:41Yeah, he struck out the side. Basically, Joe. He gives up the infield hit to Ben Rice, strikes out. Judge gets Bellinger, you know, with the outfield pulled around to the right. Bloops a, you know, double down the left field line. Then he strikes out Goldschmidt on a 3/2.100 mile an hour fastball and then gets gets Jazz Chisholm to end it on another, you know, high velocity pitch. He didn’t want to talk to reporters after the game, said he would talk later, but I did talk to Austin Hedges who came on in the 9th inning to catch him.And he said, you know, he looked really, really good. He thought, you know that all the, you know, I guess the ghosts from his past dude with the Yankees have been put behind him. He told me he’s still the best pitcher in the world and I think he was fired up because.
Joe Noga 9:21Mhm.
Paul Hoynes 9:40Not because they they, you know, kind of what he had a the Yankees hung a what over a 15 point something ERA around his neck in the ALCS. But he wasn’t, he said. Class A was fired up just to face him because they beat the Guardians in the ALCS.
Joe Noga 9:50Mhm.
Paul Hoynes 10:00He said it wasn’t personal. At least that’s, you know, what Hedges said. But he, you know, he was impressed with the job he did.
Joe Noga 10:07Yeah, and and that’s the kind of thing, the closer you’re supposed to have no emotion, you’re not supposed to, you know, show any of that. But you know, we all know that that’s not the case. That’s, you know, people are are human and and obviously he’s going to have those emotions and those feelings going out there. But it’s.That’s what he gets paid to do, is go out there and and suppress that and and and perform the way he did. You’re right, it was a 15.43 ERA in what, 3 appearances during that ALCS for Emmanuel Clase, seven hits, 4 earned runs, two home runs.For Class A against the Yankees in last year’s ALCS and now that’s a thing of the past and he can move forward. He he struck, struck out the side, struck out Aaron Judge in the night. The Guardians pick up the win. He comes back today and and and maybe picks up another save and and you know.Well, that’s, you know, you know, fodder for the the past. They don’t even have to think about it. Claus, they can keep moving forward. Speaking of, you know, a clutch performance last night, Daniel Schneemann, what, 3 for four in in the series so far with a pinch hit single.On Tuesday he comes through last night, drives in a big run in the first inning and and then he’s he’s been playing some really good defense as well at second base, just looking like he’s feeling really comfortable over there.
Paul Hoynes 11:41Yeah, Daniel Sneeman is coming on, Joe. We’re starting to see the Daniel Sneeman that the Guardians, you know, saw at AAA before he got called up last year. We’re starting to see the reasons they like him so much. You know, he’s a versatile guy.He’s he’s swinging a bat. Well, he can steal a base. He had a double in A2 out double in the first inning to get that third run home to to score Ramirez with two outs. Then he steals third.In the same inning, they can’t get him home, but still really a clutch performance. And as you said, Joe defensively really made a nice play to end the the 6th inning, which was a really kind of a tipping point in the game. Bellinger, you know, sends a shot pass.The diving Manzardo at first base. Schneemann’s right there to field the ball. Manzardo hustles back to first base, makes the throw to to Manzardo. They get to Bellinger by a whisker. The Yankees challenge, but the outcall stands and the Guardians go on to a 4-9.Nothing win from there, but just really, really a clutch play.
Joe Noga 12:56Yeah, you those replays and the the challenges that were were one and that you know they survived on two of them, the big ones you talk the the Jose Ramirez double play and then that Daniel Shieman play.You know, it seemed like the Guardians were catching breaks in in the Bronx last night after nothing went their way on Tuesday.
Paul Hoynes 13:22Yeah, definitely, Joe. It’s it’s it’s such a weird game. You know, it doesn’t matter where you’re playing. If you’re on the road or you’re at home, you know the bounce of the ball, you know, sometimes goes in your favor, sometimes doesn’t. Like Manny Ramirez used to say, sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you. And so the.The Guardians got the bear last night with those two replay challenges that went in their favor and you know and then Angel Martinez, you know in the in the first inning hits the two run homer and took took forever.Forever to get around the bases. He really enjoyed it and and and the night before the night before he had a pitch clock violation called on him which started kind of a little rhubarb with the the Guardians dugout and but and and yes and in the first inning last night you need a sundial to the time.
Joe Noga 14:04Oh.
Paul Hoynes 14:21It’s his way around the first around the bases after that home run.
Joe Noga 14:24Well, well, don’t tell me that the the young guy is starting to enjoy the trappings of success at the Major League level. Is it? Does it sound like things are going to his, you know, playing, you know, the game the right way? I obviously, you know, look at him sitting at the foot of Jose Ramirez at the bench, you know, on the bench every game.I would hope some of that is rubbing off on him rather than Cadillacing it around the bases.
Paul Hoynes 14:49I think he really was excited. His brother was there, a bunch of his cousins were there. So you know he when he got to third base, he he waved to them to wave to him in the crowd. So yeah, he was having a fun time as vote said, you know, if when you hit a home run at Yankee Stadium, you better enjoy it.
Joe Noga 15:06Yeah. And you know it’s it’s not just been the home runs, the the quality of the at bats and and he’s sort of improving that number two spot as well for the Guardians that you know for they’ve been looking for so long for somebody to to sort of connect Kwan and and Ramirez at the top of the lineup Martinez as a.As a switch hitter, you know, sort of a guy who can could really, you know, fit that bill.
Paul Hoynes 15:33Yeah, no doubt about it, Joe. I mean, it’s it was interesting the way Vogt kind of put his line up together last night. 8 left-handed hitters against Clark Schmidt, the Yankee starter that’s counting, you know, 3 switch hitters and all those lefties came through in the first inning. They all, you know, did some.Damage or scored a run to to build that three to nothing lead. And then Schmitz just shut him down for the rest of the for the rest of his outing. But you know they struck 1st and they finally got a they finally, you know, beat a starter. Joe, they weren’t beating the bullpen.
Joe Noga 16:07Yeah, that’s, you know, the the way that that lineup came out and scored early, you know, sort of the reversal of what we were talking about on yesterday’s podcast when we were questioning whether or not, you know, Stephen Vogt’s, you know, lineups can can do that and be the starter.Rather than, you know, score late against a bullpen or or do both. But really, we’re talking about Clark Schmidt.
We’re not talking about Carlos Rordan or Max Freed or or Yoshinobi Yamamoto, who or Terrick School, who were the, you know, sort of the frontline starters who they couldn’t score early against at all. So still remains to be seen whether they can find success against a frontline starter.or early in a game. All right, I wanted to bring up a point. Hoinsey, you and I, you know, have been talking about the the automated ball strike system. All indications are that it’s going to be a part of Major League Baseball in the 2026 season. This is something that, you know, we we talked about duringspring training with the automated strike system where they can challenge twice a game and you know it’s initiated by the players or the catcher or the pitcher on the field and can’t come from the dugout has to be sort of immediate for the time purposes you’ve covered a bunch of games where the challengeSystem was was in place. We saw a situation the other night in a game between the Astros and the Tampa Bay Rays. Taylor Walls, the batter for the the Rays, took a ball that was called a strike or took a pitch that was called a strike by the umpire. He stepped out-of-the-box and asked for.Time before he stepped back into the box while he was sort of discussing the previous pitch with the umpire, he tapped his the top of his helmet, which you know during spring training was the signal for the automated ball strike challenge system and and the umpires during this during the regular.Season have been sort of on the lookout for players showing them up by tapping their helmets when they disagree with a call. Taylor Walls tapped the top of his helmet. It was pretty obvious and clear that he did it. The home plate umpire ejected him immediately and Needless to say, Taylor Walls and Kevin Cash.Both kind of lost their minds after that. Walls was ejected. Kevin Cash was ejected. Just a kind of a unique scene. I don’t think we’ll see much of that the rest of this season. I don’t think we’ll ever see that, you know, next season it’ll be.You know, a part of the regular season. So just your thoughts on, you know, the sort of the the trappings of this, this system now looks looking like it’s going to be fully implemented, you know, for the start of 2026.
Paul Hoynes 19:27Joe, it took some getting used to. I’ll be honest with you in spring training, you know, Goodyear Ballpark was one of the parks where the ABS system was installed and some, you know, it’s weird to see pitchers taking or hitters taking advantage of it so early in the first, like in the first.Inning or second inning, you know, it seems like it would be something you’d use in a in a critical situation later in the game. But so it seemed to me it happened really fast. It was cool because you got to see the, you know, they showed it immediately on a scoreboard where whether. Whether the pitch was a strike or a ball, there was no argument and play continued. But early on it seemed to to get into into the get in the way of the rhythm of the game and gradually I think they, you know, the players and the pitchers and the catchers got used to it.And it seemed to smooth out. But to me early, early on it, it, you know, it was disjointed to me. It gave me a disjointed feel. But you know, when you talk to the pitchers, you talk to the hitters, you talk to the catchers especially, they really like the system.
Joe Noga 20:31Well, I just wonder if if there had been an ABS challenge system in place, you know, on Tuesday night, then that pitch that was from Tanner Bybee to Jazz Chisholm, that would have been a strike three. It was called a ball and eventually Chisholm gets a base hit and it sort of starts the game.Yankees, you know, scoring and their leads to their first run. You know, that pitch probably would have been one that had the Guardians had the ability to challenge it. They would have challenged it right then and there. So yeah, it could have changed, it could have swung momentum, it could have changed things, or it could have just prevented runs from scoring.
Paul Hoynes 21:12Yeah, no.Yeah, and and the the main goal of it is to get it right. You know, that’s why replay is here. That’s why baseball is, you know, kind of rolled over, rolled into all this, this replay era to get the calls right. So there’s so the umpires aren’t embarrassed and the teams don’t get, you know, don’t don’t get wronged.In critical situations. But you know, the thing I’m wondering about is how many challenges do you get, Joe? Is there any word on that?
Joe Noga 21:43Well, the way they did it in spring training was each team got two challenges. So I I to me that seems a little low considering what if they can get the the timing and the rhythm of the game issues, you know, ironed out by the end of spring training. I can’t. I don’t understand why you can’t have at least three.Challenges for a game and you want to save one for a critical time at the end of the game. If there’s, you know if there’s a situation in the OR you know, start the game off with you know A2 challenge allotment there and then let’s say after the 8th inning you get an extra challenge.Or each team gets an additional challenge after the 8th inning because that’s when the the majority of the the impactful calls are going to be be made, right? Yeah, there could be big situations brewing in the first, second or third inning, but I can’t see Stephen Kwan in his first at bat of the game.Challenging a pitch, that’s obviously a strike. I think you’ve got to live with the result of the call in that situation.
Paul Hoynes 22:51Yeah, that’s the thing. I was wondering if you get, if you challenge and your challenge is right, do you keep the challenge? Do you just carry that on or you burn that challenge?
Joe Noga 22:59Yeah, yeah. If you’re if you’re right, if you’re if you’re correct on the challenge, you you keep it. So you know if I if I challenge 2 calls early in the first inning and I will lose both of them, then you know I don’t have any the ability to challenge at all for the rest of the game.I think giving an additional challenge once you reach the 8th inning would probably be, you know, a benefit to getting the most critical calls right at the end of the game.
Paul Hoynes 23:27Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense, Joe. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Joe Noga 23:29How, how were the what, how, you know, what was Stephen Vogt’s sort of attitude towards the ABS system back in spring training, if you recall? And you know, how, how did the Guardian sort of approach the experimental phase of it during those games?
Paul Hoynes 23:46Yeah, he took it as an experimental phase. He, you know, he gave the the players the green light to use it whenever. Since it wasn’t going to, you know, count this year, he said to have fun with it, to experiment with it. And there was a couple of times, Joe, where you know some kids coming over from the minor league camp.You know, are hitting the middle of the line-up, you know, just coming in late in the game and the first thing they do is call is call for a challenge. And you’re sitting there thinking, jeez, oh man, you’re a rookie, you’re coming into a big league game and and you’re you’re challenging already. You know that that baseball that that’s changed a little bit.
Joe Noga 24:188.Yeah, it takes takes some stones, huh? Yeah.Yeah, it takes some stones to to step into there in that situation as a a guy coming over from the minor league camp, definitely. But yeah, I I think we’re going to see more of it. We’re going to hear more of it and and I I think the that that situation with Taylor Walls in.In Houston, sort of maybe a a flash point saying these guys are are ready for this to, you know, the system to be implemented. They’ve been experimenting with it in the minors for the last couple of years. So you know, as these new guys come into the league, they’re accustomed to it already. It’s just the veterans who really have to catch up to it and hey.Veterans caught up to the to the pitch clock, you know, fast enough. So you know, not a real concern that that’s going to be the case if they do it the right way. Just sort of, you know, another wrinkle to to to add on and to think about as we move, move forward and and and look ahead to next year and and hey, give credit to Manny Gonzalez.I went back and I looked at his umpire scorecard from Tuesday night’s game and he was almost perfect in terms of his his called strike accuracy in that game. Only three pitches that he that that were actually in the strike zone.Taking pitches that were in the strike zone that he called, you know, strike or he called balls were actually strikes 3 out of 100 or something like that. So you know, pretty accurate without the ABS system as it is, but now that ABS is going to give them another layer of. Sort of protection, like you said.
All right, Hoinsey. Tonight’s series finale in the Bronx matchup is Max Fried, one of the best in the American League this season so far. He’s seven and one with a 1.92 ERA 70 strikeouts. This guy is is is just blowing guys away. Slade Saconi.For the Guardians, he’s been pretty strong since joining the rotation one-on-one with a 5.2 ADRA coming off. Probably his his worst outing, you know, of the season since joining the Guardians. He’s got 17 strikeouts under his belt. What are we expecting in the series finale tonight?
Paul Hoynes 26:55Joe Sacconi coming off that tough start against the Angels. Seven hits, five runs, gives up three bombs. Then they knocked him around a little bit and the home run was a problem with him last year in Arizona. And this is probably not the ballpark you want to be pitching in if you if you have some.Ball in the park. On the other hand, Freed, this will be the Guardian’s first chance to see him. As you said, seven and one with a 192 ERA won six straight starts, Joe, from April 4th through through May 2nd. But lately he’s in his last five. He’s one and one.With the 3.26 ERA coming off his worst start of the season against the Dodgers. So we’ll see how that goes, but I I would think the ball’s in the Yankees court on this one.
Joe Noga 27:48Yeah, and you know, you mentioned the ballpark that they play in. I go back to that home run that was hit by Jazz Chisholm off of Tanner Bybee on Tuesday night. Went and looked. Just curious on the Statcast to see.Where else that would have been a home run? The only two parks currently being played in in Major League Baseball where that ball is a home run was Yankee Stadium and George M Steinbrenner Field in Tampa. So the two ballparks that are are exactly mirrors of each other in terms of.Mentioned the only two ballparks where that ball would have been a home run off the bat of Jess Chisholm. But and yeah, you know, immediately after I tweeted that people are coming back at me with, well, you know, both teams are playing in the same park and I’m like, yeah, but that guy plays in that.That part 82 games a year or 81 games a year. So, you know, Advantage Yankees in that situation. But yeah, sometimes you see balls leave the yard in in Yankee Stadium. You just kind of shake your head as like, you know, are they playing on a college field here? What’s going on?
Paul Hoynes 29:00Yeah, that short right view porch has benefited a lot of Yankee players.
Joe Noga 29:04That’s for sure. All right, Hoinsey, that’s going to wrap up today’s edition of the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. We’ll check back in with you again tomorrow ahead of the series against the Astros.